Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, March 5
2002 Volume 01 : Number
772
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:27:50 EST
From:
Merlin916@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Double Clutching
PS - there is a certian reference to double
clutching in a recent movie
that was released about the southern california
drag racing scene. Double
clutching is NOT used in drag racing,
because it is NOT necessary when
upshifting. This is just another
point of that particular film that I
personally found rather annoying, to
the point that I called up a few of the
gents that I graduated Skip Barber
with to complain about it....
just had to get that
out,
Joe
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:31:51
-0800
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Double Clutching
Double Clutching - This is something done only
when downshifting. If you are
in 5th, for example, you put in the clutch and
as you go through neutral you
let the clutch out and give it a shot of gas.
This increases the speed of
the shafts on which the 4th gear syncro is moving
so that it is moving at
the same speed as the 5th gear. You then put the
clutch in again and move
the shifter into 4th. The clutch is then let out
again. This is all done
very quickly and smoothly. The net result is that the
syncros engage
smoothly and there is little or no lurch when the clutch is
let out and the
shifter is in the next lowest gear. It helps to save the
syncros also.
Andy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
apedenko@attbi.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Sunday, March
03, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: Team3S: Double Clutching
> Okay, I've
heard this term thrown around a lot (double
> clutching) - could somebody
please explain to me what
> that is and how to do
it?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
Alex.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:26:57
+0100
From: Jim Matthews <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
>I did not have to fudge any numbers to
come up with the 320 HP. I have a
>stock car (enjoying its last few stock
days) and I used 26% drivetrain loss
>as determined by Joe G. and the
other guys who went to Chicago in January
>to dyno their cars. I also
used an SAE correction factor of 0.936 because
>this is what came with
the program.
What is being converted to SAE? According to the Road
& Track Dictionary, the conversion factor for KW to DIN PS is 1.36
and
for DIN PS to SAE HP is 1.014. My dyno info is at
http://www.team3s.com/~matthews/stealth.html#Dyno.
Do you have
anything similar (curves, etc.) that can be posted for
review? Thanks!
- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
- - --
Jim Matthews - Munich,
Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:42:23
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Y-pipe Availability
This is the one my son bought me as a
gift. Only problem is that the tap
for the little hose that goes down
to the BOV is too long and at the wrong
angle. You will need to cut it
off to avoid clearance problems with the
window washer reservoir fill
spout.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd,
Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 12:07
PM
> To: Team 3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Y-pipe Availability
>
>
www.DNPerformance.com> Polished
SS
> Pictures of it installed on 3/S cars on his site.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:46:51
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Cross Drilled and Slotted Front Rotors
So how can these
rotors fit all VR4 from 1990(?)-1998?
caveat emptor!
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Jeys [SMTP:tj@jeys.net]
>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:58 PM
> To: Team 3s
> Subject:
Team3S: Cross Drilled and Slotted Front Rotors
>
> Good deal on a
pair of cross drilled and slotted rotors if anyone is
>
interested.
>
>
http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1808>
783546&r=0&t=0
>
> T.J. 1992 3000GT VR-4
>
tj@jeys.net*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:53:07
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
[Willis, Charles E.] Just take
the bumper off, man, and get on with it.
It's not a big deal, and while it's
off you can get it repainted - the lower
edge is probably scratched up
anyhow.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:55:14
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
Buy a bunch of new trim clips from
the dealer and take a pair of dykes
(that's pliers with sharp edges like
scissors) and just cut the trim clips
off.
Chuck
> The
first time, plan on it
> taking a couple hours because of those @#%$#
plastic "clip with the screw
> in
> the center" thingies that hold
the wheelwell splashguards in place.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:58:10
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Apparently My Synchros Are Still Good...
Sam,
some of
us just aren't very coordinated!
Chuck
(who missed an upshift to 4th
at the track last weekend, blowing a beautiful
pass)
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Shelat
[SMTP:sshelat@erols.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 3:27 PM
>
To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Floyd, Jim'; Team3S List (E-mail)
> Subject: Re:
Team3S: Apparently My Synchros Are Still Good...
>
> I don't know
how the heck you guys do that.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:04:53
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Size of the clamp needed for stock Y-Pipe
I'm not sure off the
top of my head what size the y-pipe is, but whatever
clamp you get, you
should plan on taking it somewhere that has an
industrial belt sander, or
grinder to make it narrower. These t-clamps are
too wide to fit the groove
in the stock y-pipe. Been there, done that.........
W
At 06:52 PM
3/3/02 -0700, Moe Prasad wrote:
>What size T-Clamp should I buy from
Summit Racing for my stock Y-pipe?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:05:30
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Double Clutching
simple to say. takes practice to
execute well, especially 1) rev matching
and 2) timing to get this all done
smoothly and back in gear before the
rev's drop.
Blipping the throttle
goes a long way to smoothing out downshifts and rev
matching is less
critical. Proper double clutching is indeed easier on the
synchros, but
bad double clutching is harder on them.
I guess I'm not having a problem
with turbo lag with stock turbos, so I
don't really see that as a real
advantage.
Chuck Willis
(who is not coordinated enough to
double-clutch consistantly)
> Double clutching is simple.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:10:19
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Apparently My Synchros Are Still Good...
I missed this entire
episode/report -- did I get kicked off yet another forum? Did Chuckie file a
report on his racing weekend? If so, I'd sure like to read it.
Rich/slow
old poop but out of the loop somehow.
At 08:58 AM 3/4/02 -0600, Willis,
Charles E. wrote:
>Sam,
>some of us just aren't very
coordinated!
>Chuck
>(who missed an upshift to 4th at the track last
weekend, blowing a beautiful
>pass)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 04 Mar 2002 11:27:37
-0600
From: Jon Bohlke <
bohlke_mobile@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gtech Competition
My friend and I have wondered about the
accuracy and precision of the
Gtech pro. Since there has been a bit of
dicussion about it here I
thought I would share the results of his
test. He took the Gtech with
him to the dragstrip at Maple Grove.
He ran 4-5 times that day and said
that the G-Tech was accurate on the ET but
was optimistic on the speed.
I think he said that the Gtech was within .1s
of the ET reported on the
timeslip in each run. He drives a C5 but I
don't hold that against him
:) , though I am not sure that it makes a
difference what type of car
you use to test the Gtech.
Jon
98 Pearl
White VR4
http://3000gt.websnout.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:55:32
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: track report - March 2-3, 2002
I'll keep it brief because my
fingers are still frostbitten.
March 2-3, 2002, Lone Star Region Porsche
Club of America High Speed Drivers
Education at Texas World Speedway in
College Station, Texas.
I thought I was going to get a lot of free time,
but at the last minute got
asked to instruct. When we left Houston
Saturday morning, it was 54
degrees. By the time we reached College
Station, 90 miles northwest, it was
34 degrees and dropping. I've never
seen so many people wearing helmets
standing around the grid!
My dear
wife, Diana, accompanied me in the '93 VR4 and helped me set up the
'94 VR4
for the track. I missed the first Red session Saturday morning, but
had
three really excellent sessions later. First run, I drove with the
DSBC
set at low boost (about 10 psi) which was plenty. Second run, I
took out a
former student, and went off track for the first time in 2 and a
half years.
We were following a Porsche into Turn 4. He had just filled
up with fuel
and didn't have the cap on right. He started sloshing fuel
over one of his
tires and started doing the death wiggle at track out, about
when we hit the
apex. I said "sh&t." and "We're going off." I
had the choice of hitting
him, adding steering, spining and hitting him, or
unwinding steering and
driving straight off the track, which is what I did.
No damage to either car
- - thanks the the wonders of AWD, no tow truck
necessary! At least the guy
had the courtesy to explain what happened
later in the paddock.
Had a fun follow the leader with a race-prepped
BMW. One lap I executed
13-14-15 perfectly and he didn't and I flew up
past him, and then missed the
upshift into 4th (duh) so I looked like a jerk.
I couldn't really press him
on Sunday, but Saturday I had him on the
ropes.
I was blessed with a Green student in a V8 Firebird who had 15
years of
ralley and sprint racing in the UK and a Blue student already Solo
qualified
with an '85 (Euro) 930 Turbo. Green student advanced to Blue
on Sunday,
Blue student advanced to Yellow last session Sunday. I was
really just
baggage and fine tuning - it's so easy when the driver already
has all the
car control skills.
At the end of the first Red session
Sunday, a race-prepped Porsche (my Team
Leader) dumped 14 quarts of oil on
the line from Turn 2 through Turn 9. I
was on the track about 1/2 lap
behind him, and approaching the end of the
main straight at about
one-twenty-something when the debris flag came out.
Not knowing where or what
kind of debris, I dumped as much speed as possible
in the flat approaching
turnin for Turn 2. You can't just brake harder,
because you don't know
if the debris is actually in your braking zone, you
just brake for a longer
time and try to feel if you have grip. Then as I
turned in I noticed
the two Porsches in front of me going squirrelly at the
apex and trackout for
Turn 2. So was I at the apex, but saved by the
miracles of AWD!
Then you breathe hard and think you're out of trouble. We
get around
the track to Turn 6 and the same two cars are kicking up dirt at
the track
out for Turn 6. The oil was barely visible, only a slightly
darker gray
than the pavement. They shut down the track to spread kitty
litter and
then sent the Green students out to soak it up! Actually, the
grip was
not bad after the kitty litter. The delay caused them to combine
Red
and White groups.
When we gridded up for the last Red/White session, a
race-prepped 944 in the
Yellow group dumped a ten foot wide sixty foot long
swath of oil on the line
through Turn 5 during their checkered lap. The
kitty litter was only
marginally successful - I drove a displaced turnin apex
and trackout the
entire session (slow).
Diana was only able to clock a
few laps because of the high wind and low
temp. I haven't looked at the
numbers, but she was saying I was running
2:15's a couple of 2:10's and some
2:20's in the last oily session. I think
were gonna invest in a lap
timer, because there are lots of other things
Diana could be doing.
I
corded another front right tire. I still have a spare that will go on
the
rear. Maybe the miracle antisway bars will stop this. This is the
3rd event
on the same oil change and brake fluid, and about 5th or so on the
same set
of Panther Plus pads, although last month was only one of two
days. I'm
finally seeing come wear on the pads, maybe new ones next
time.
No overtemp problems!
Chuck Willis
94
VR4
DSBC
GReddy? filter charger
GC and Eibach springs
Porterfield
Crossdrilled front and rear rotors
Panther Plus brake pads
Goodridge
stainless steel brake lines
GReddy SuperDrager exhaust
Volk TE37 17"
wheels
Yoko AO37 255R40Z17 tires
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:20
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hesitation ;-)
Either spark blowout or timing retarded due to
knock. Definitely NOT fuel
cut (otherwise you'd have bitten into the steering
wheel). An no, there is
no active intake that can switch :-)
And from
now on never ever use a percentage in drivetrain loss or at least
do not
mention it as it is absolutely wrong.
> I do not have any datalogging
on my '95 car. My guess is that it was
either
> some knock and the
resulting ignition retardation, or a little fuel cut at
> 4000 rpm (is
this even possible on a stock car at this rpm?) It could also
> be the
active intake switching.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:35:14
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
>>I did not have to fudge any
numbers to come up with the 320 HP. I have a
>>stock car (enjoying its
last few stock days) and I used 26% drivetrain
loss
>>as determined
by Joe G. and the other guys who went to Chicago in January
>>to
dyno their cars. I also used an SAE correction factor of 0.936
because
>>this is what came with the program.
>What is
being converted to SAE? According to the Road & Track
Dictionary,
the >conversion factor for KW to DIN PS is 1.36
>and for
DIN PS to SAE HP is 1.014. My dyno info is
at
>http://www.team3s.com/~matthews/stealth.html#Dyno. Do you
have
>anything similar (curves, etc.) that can be posted for review?
Thanks!
I have not figured out yet what that SAE correction factor is.
Someone with
the knowledge please enlighten us. It is definitely not a unit
conversion
thing. It is my understanding that there are other non-SAE
correction
factors, which are used to compensate for difference in engine
testing with
and without different accessories like power steering, A/C,
ventilation,
lighting, and other things that belong to the car and not the
engine.
In the end all I can measure and all I care for is the HP at the
wheels. If
I set the correction factor to 1.00 and the drivetrain loss to 0%
then I
will get the HP at the wheels and this is what I will use for
tuning.
I will post the curves later this week. BTW, has anyone
calculated the
frontal area of the car?
Philip
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:33:52
-0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Tune-in Tokyo!
Would any members in or around the Columbus OH
area be interested in helping
me tune some aftermarket devices? In
particular a HKS EVC, GCC, and VPC. The
car is running rich and gas mileage
is awfull. Or email me suggestions, last
night I set everything to 0 so
should = stock and I turned off the EVC. I
want to be able to use these
components correctly!
Thanks,
Tom
92
VR4
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:37:46
-0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Top 20
I know there is a lot of talk about the top 2 or 3 fastest
stealths and
3kgts but is there a list anywhere (maybe Dave B. or Jeff L's
websites)
which contains the top 10 or 20 cars and owners times? This would
be a neat
resource as we could all strive to make the list and advance
towards the #1
position! We could have times approved by the admins perhaps
and every time
must be backed up by an slip.
Food for
thought,
Tom
92 VR4
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:50:07
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Street Dyno rocks!
This drivetrain loss issue has been rehashed more
times [ without resolution
I might add ] that it probably the leader in
archive volume.
I too wish we could get people to use wheel HP only and
quit trying to guess
at the flywheel
numbers.
Jim
Berry
==================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>; <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Sent: Monday,
March 04, 2002 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
>
>>I did not have to fudge any numbers to come up with the 320 HP. I have
a
> >>stock car (enjoying its last few stock days) and I used 26%
drivetrain
> loss
> >>as determined by Joe G. and the other
guys who went to Chicago in January
>
> >>to dyno their cars.
I also used an SAE correction factor of 0.936 because
>
>
>>this is what came with the program.
>
> >What is being
converted to SAE? According to the Road & Track Dictionary,
>
the >conversion factor for KW to DIN PS is 1.36
> >and for DIN PS to
SAE HP is 1.014. My dyno info is at
>
>http://www.team3s.com/~matthews/stealth.html#Dyno. Do you have
>
>anything similar (curves, etc.) that can be posted for review?
Thanks!
>
> I have not figured out yet what that SAE correction
factor is. Someone with
> the knowledge please enlighten us. It is
definitely not a unit conversion
> thing. It is my understanding that
there are other non-SAE correction
> factors, which are used to compensate
for difference in engine testing with
> and without different accessories
like power steering, A/C, ventilation,
> lighting, and other things that
belong to the car and not the engine.
>
> In the end all I can
measure and all I care for is the HP at the wheels. If
> I set the
correction factor to 1.00 and the drivetrain loss to 0% then I
> will get
the HP at the wheels and this is what I will use for tuning.
>
> I
will post the curves later this week. BTW, has anyone calculated the
>
frontal area of the car?
>
> Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:57:02
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Percentage in drivetrain loss; was Re: Team3S: Hesitation ;-)
Hey, Roger,
let's discuss this. I expressed the drivetrain loss as a
percentage of engine
horsepower because this is the commonly accepted way
of doing it. The Street
Dyno software requires it to be entered. I
understand that it is a
simplification and the drivetrain loss is not
always directly proportional to
the engine horsepower. A better theory that
I heard of says that there is a
static friction component to it or simply a
zero offset and also a dynamic
friction part, which increases with speed
and torque but less than 1:1. This
means that if you double you horsepower
your drivetrain losses will less than
double. Nobody has been able to put
any numbers on this though.
What
is your theory?
Philip
"Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch wrote:
>And
from now on never ever use a percentage in drivetrain loss or at least
>do
not mention it as it is absolutely wrong.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:00:08
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Top 20
> I know there is a lot of talk about the top 2 or
3 fastest
> stealths and 3kgts but is there a list anywhere
(maybe
> Dave B. or Jeff L's websites) which contains the top 10
or
> 20 cars and owners times?
There are a few out there...
This one seems to be updated the most. There
are undoubtedly fast cars
that aren't on the list, but if people don't
submit their times...
http://www.mn3s.org/fastest3s.htmlI
think 3si.org has a list somewhere, but their site is being veeeery slow
for
me today.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:10:00
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
I have an NA 93 R/T w 168 at the
wheels.....very little mods to
assume anything other than stock numbers for
the flywheel....when
done I plan to put 220-250 at the wheels and will
measure from
there......I doubt anyone claiming hp at the fly will pull his
car or
even has put thier motor on a dyno to back up the claim...these
are
people who say the K&N will boost hp by 12 and Magnecores will
add
another 5hp..for a total of 17+ on top of the 220 base #..if we
all
used this method to figure dyno #'s then my car will be easily
400hp
at the crank when all mods are done ( I am not that retarded
)
Anyone who has done a dyno run knows what I am talking about.....even
a
5 hp gain takes alot of work......it's not like slapping on a
bumper sticker
and saying I got 20hp more now......I was told by the
dyno man that every
change in the flow of power....shaft to
shaft...will lose power....by that
sense then an AWD car car will
have a higher loss than a FWD car....I can't
stand the claims of a
gutted cat adding hp like 40 or something.....It's just
a marketing
scheme at best.
K&N,Accel coils and wires,cam
gears,cams,springs,SAFC,polished intake
and port matched heads,mandrel bent
exhaust, headers (very soon),
down pipe (my own product) 360 injectors,fresh
motor w/coated forged
pistons,AL flywheel, underdrive pully...the good
one...and a lot of
well balanced tires and a bible and I will pray for 250 at
the wheels
on my NA......from 168? this will be very close....
- ----
Original Message ----
From:
fastmax@cox.netTo:
team3s@team3s.com,
jim@the-matthews.com,
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:50:07
-0800
>This drivetrain loss issue has been rehashed more times [
without
>resolution
>I might add ] that it probably the leader in
archive volume.
>
>I too wish we could get people to use wheel HP
only and quit trying
>to guess
>at the flywheel
numbers.
>
> Jim
Berry
>==================================================
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:07:14
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss; was Re: Team3S: Hesitation ;-)
Numbers
can be found on the dyno curves on my 3000GT pages. No theory as we
measure
drivetrrain loss and not are guessing.
You can search for the discussion
in the archive.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> Hey, Roger, let's discuss
this.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:21:08
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss; was Re: Team3S: Hesitation ;-)
No
offense to anyone..but the HP loss is..well, _really_ unimportant.
This
isnt targetted at Roger or anyone else..but to argue drivetrain loss
makes me
think that you want to use crank #s to use as a tool to
benchrace with
someone else.
The only number that matters, is whats on the
ground.
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
> Numbers can be
found on the dyno curves on my 3000GT pages. No theory as we
> measure
drivetrrain loss and not are guessing.
>
> You can search for the
discussion in the archive.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> > Hey, Roger,
let's discuss this.
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:25:35
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
Maybe we should convince Bob to drive down to
my place so we can do a few
runs with the Road Dyno and compare numbers and
the shapes of the curves
with the actual ones from the real dyno...
Bob, is your car still torn apart?
- --Erik
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: ek2mfg
[mailto:ek2mfg@foxinternet.com]
>
> I have an NA 93 R/T w 168 at
the wheels.....very little mods to
> assume anything other than stock
numbers for the flywheel
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:32:18
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Street Dyno rocks!
I spent the whole day yesterday drilling
out spot welds to remove the
front buckets...I figure by April 1st I will be
ready to do that for
ya.....engine mods will be done late summer when the
motor comes out
so it could be apples to apples...I am game but if you saw my
car
right now you would say it went through an episode of GTA3....and I
am
on the run!!!!! New buckets come in this week and one more piece
to buy
(center radiator support) and its on the way back
together.....man I got a
lot of metric bolts laying around my garage
with this parts car and
conversion going on.....hope I get it right :)
- ---- Original Message
----
From:
erik.gross@intel.comTo:
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com,
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
Street Dyno rocks!
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:25:35 -0800
>Maybe we
should convince Bob to drive down to my place so we can do
>a
few
>runs with the Road Dyno and compare numbers and the shapes of the
>curves
>with the actual ones from the real dyno...
>
>Bob, is your car still torn
apart?
>
>--Erik
>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>> From: ek2mfg
[mailto:ek2mfg@foxinternet.com]
>>
>> I have an NA 93 R/T w
168 at the wheels.....very little mods to
>> assume anything other than
stock numbers for the flywheel
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:59
-0800 (PST)
From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
Yes I will take my bumper off and take
my intercoolers
out for proper cleaning, my new turbos are back in and
I
would hate to not do a proper job. My service manual
calls for the removel of
the oil cooler to get the
intercooler out on the drivers side. The question
is,
is this true, it looks like it should be in front of
the oil cooler,
in anycase I'm ordering clips for the
front panels but would like to know if
I need to take
out the oil cooler then I should order some crush
washers
at the same time. If anyone who has removed
the incooler without removing the
oil cooler I would
like to hear from you on how to do it.
Peter 1992
Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:35
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
You don't have to completely remove
the oil cooler, just disconnect it's
mountings and you can untangle the
intercooler from the oil cooler hoses if
the intercooler hoses are
removed.
I have some digital pictures of my intercooler refurb. You
want them?
Chuck Willis
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: menalteed [SMTP:menalteed@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002
12:55 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
>
> Yes I will take
my bumper off and take my intercoolers
> out for proper cleaning, my new
turbos are back in and
> I would hate to not do a proper job. My service
manual
> calls for the removel of the oil cooler to get the
>
intercooler out on the drivers side. The question is,
> is this true, it
looks like it should be in front of
> the oil cooler, in anycase I'm
ordering clips for the
> front panels but would like to know if I need to
take
> out the oil cooler then I should order some crush
> washers
at the same time. If anyone who has removed
> the incooler without
removing the oil cooler I would
> like to hear from you on how to do
it.
>
> Peter 1992 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:18:02
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Water Injection Tuning (long)
So now that I have a working WI
system, I have to tune it :-)
Questions at the very bottom, so if you
want the quick-read, skip to there.
[If you know about the Aquamist 2s,
then skip this part]
I have a 3D-mapping system (Aquamist 2s), so I can set
the water flow rate
to be a function of the engine RPM and the boost
pressure. I can control
the flow rate by adjusting potentiometers from
0<->100% at 1000RPM intervals
and there is a "gain" setting for the
boost input. If you haven't looked at
the 2s system, you basically set
up a curve for flow vs. RPM with the
potentiometers and then that curve gets
multiplied by the [boost-related]
gain setting to get the final water flow
rate. And there's a minimum boost
threshold setting, too, so there's no
flow below that.
Having read the Aquamist web pages (
www.aquamist.co.uk) and their
pretty
lengthy FAQs, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the
general
principles, but I'm looking for others' comments and/or 3/S
specific
tips/suggestions.
My Car:
* '95 VR-4, BPU engine mods,
stock turbos/fuel
* Road courses a couple times a year
* AutoX 10 times a
year
* Road trips and nice-weather driving
* Boost currently set at 0.8bar
to 1.0bar on the street
* Would like to run 1.0bar on the track without
worries
Goals of (my) WI System:
* Low Speed, High Underhood Temp
Intercooling
* Higher RPM Intercooling
* Detonation Prevention/Control at
higher than stock boost
WI Specifics:
* 1gal water tank, (water only
for now)
* 0.8mm nozzle rated at 330cc/min at 100% duty cycle
* 3-bar MAP
sensor for measuring boost
* Injector nozzle in y-pipe right before throttle
body
* Boost threshold for WI engagement: 0.55bar (8psi)
* Boost gain set
at 50% (factory setting)
WI Engagement Point:
I chose the 0.55bar
engagement point for the WI because this is slightly
below the boost my car
currently holds to redline (I don't want it to stop
injecting unconditionally
at high RPMs). I assume I want this trigger point
as high as possible
to conserve water and not cool off the cylinders too
much.
WI
vs. RPM Curve:
The ERL MF2 controller smoothes out (interpolates) the curve
you enter on
the potentiometers with 1000RPM granularity. My initial
curve is similar to
the one in the MF2 documentation, but shifted lower since
my car doesn't rev
to 9000RPM - unless I get 2nd instead of 4th :-) My
curve:
RPM: Potentiometer Setting (%)
2000
25
3000 50
4000 60
5000 60
6000 50
7000 45
8000 45
9000 45
(remember, the MF2 interpolates)
Current Results:
No stumbling or
apparent spark blow-out, no noticeable power loss due to
over-cooling, and no
significant power gains (butt-dyno). I'll do some runs
with the Road
Dyno when I get the chance so I can actually see any
variations in the
torque/hp curves.
Questions:
1) Comments on my choice of activation
point for the
WI? (0.55bar/8psi)
2) Comments on my current choice of
RPM/flow curve?
3) What should I expect to feel (while driving) or
see
(on dyno graphs) if I inject too much water?
4) I've heard that the way to
tune WI is to increase
the flow rate until you get some power loss or
stumbling and then back it off a little? Sound right?
TIA for any
comments/suggestions, and I'll keep everyone posted as I have
time to
fine-tune the WI system.
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:03:39
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss
Well put.
For those of you
who NEED to know what the drivetrain loss is, plan on
removing your engine
and putting it on an engine dyno, then putting it back
in the car and
chassis dyno it. Make sure the exact same operating
parameters are present
at each dyno pull (yea right)
Simply coasting down on a chassis dyno does
not give you an accurate result
because drivetrain friction is different
when coasting and accelerating.
If chassis dynos were meant to give
engine HP, they would be engine dynos.
W
At 10:21 AM 3/4/02 -0800,
Geoff Mohler wrote:
>No offense to anyone..but the HP loss is..well,
_really_ unimportant.
>
>This isnt targetted at Roger or anyone
else..but to argue drivetrain loss
>makes me think that you want to use
crank #s to use as a tool to
>benchrace with someone
else.
>
>The only number that matters, is whats on the
ground.
>
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Roger Gerl wrote:
>
>
> Numbers can be found on the dyno curves on my 3000GT pages. No theory as
we
> > measure drivetrrain loss and not are guessing.
>
>
> > You can search for the discussion in the archive.
>
>
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
> >
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:20:54
-0800 (PST)
From: Joe Barchesky <
gd1996@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
woohoo found my stealth...
Well finally I sold the ta and I am buying a
maroon 91
Stealth rt tt, the car looks pretty good, trans has 8k
since the
rebuild. It has enki rp01s on it, 17",
which I may sell if anyones
interested. It does have
118k, but thats not too bad, paint looks
perfect,
interior looks really nice, should make me a great
car. I
got a deposit on it and will pick it up on the
18th. Which I;m sure I
will have a lot of questions.
Joe B
95 Trans Am sold buying 91 rt
tt
89 Shelby Daytona T2
69 ROad Runner
68 Sport
Satellite
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:30:23
-0600
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
Peter,
You do not have to
remove the front bumper. I wouldn't if I were you.
Everything
comes out from the drivers side wheel well. Remove inner fender
and
air dam under the bumper(lots of 10mm screws).
I took both out to clean
and straighten fins without removing front bumper!
Just start riping into
it and it will be obvious what to remove when you get
in there.
Mark
Wendlandt
'91RT/TT
>From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
>To:
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>CC:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:59 -0800
(PST)
>
>Yes I will take my bumper off and take my
intercoolers
>out for proper cleaning, my new turbos are back in
and
>I would hate to not do a proper job. My service manual
>calls
for the removel of the oil cooler to get the
>intercooler out on the
drivers side. The question is,
>is this true, it looks like it should be
in front of
>the oil cooler, in anycase I'm ordering clips for
the
>front panels but would like to know if I need to take
>out the
oil cooler then I should order some crush
>washers at the same time. If
anyone who has removed
>the incooler without removing the oil cooler I
would
>like to hear from you on how to do it.
>
>Peter 1992
Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:42:54
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rollbar/Harnesses
> Erik and Russell ... thanks for the
feedback. Consider the
> write-up on the list.
Thanks Darren
- looking forward to your writeup.
> > I have an idea of
what I'm leaning toward (4pt,
> > like Flash's autopower one),but
that's by no
> > means written in stone...
>
> And the
phrase is "set in stone" and "cast in concrete."
> Not sure what
you would write in stone ... chisel maybe?
For an obvious example, how
about the Ten Commandments?
Definition:
http://home.t-online.de/home/toni.goeller/idiom_wm/idioms652.htmlIdiom:
written in stone
Meaning: written in final form, like a commandment
Example: Our agreement isn't written in stone; it can be changed.
Something to which you should be able to relate:
(title of an article
on javaworld)
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaqa/2000-06/01-qa-0602-immutable.htmlJava's
primitive wrappers are written in stone
You can't alter an immutable
object!
- --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:56:09
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
Fair warning.....those little
plastic screw washer things with the
phillips head on them....some
times squeezing the back of them so the
old worn-out screw will grab and back
out. don't just rip them off
with pliers...good news is they are only about
1.50 each and there is
about 8 total of them...I think even Napa sells them
in their junk
drawers with all the other stuff we never need.
good
luck...I know mine were a PITA....
bobk.
- ---- Original Message
----
From:
stealth_tt@hotmail.comTo:
menalteed@yahoo.com,
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.orgSubject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:30:23
-0600
>Peter,
>
>You do not have to remove the front
bumper. I wouldn't if I were
>you.
>Everything comes
out from the drivers side wheel well. Remove inner
>fender
>and air dam under the bumper(lots of 10mm screws).
>
>I took
both out to clean and straighten fins without removing front
>bumper!
>
>Just start riping into it and it will be obvious
what to remove when
>you get
>in there.
>
>Mark
Wendlandt
>'91RT/TT
>
>>From: menalteed <
menalteed@yahoo.com>
>>To:
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>>CC:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>>Subject:
RE: Team3S: Drivers side Intercooler
>>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:59
-0800 (PST)
>>
>>Yes I will take my bumper off and take my
intercoolers
>>out for proper cleaning, my new turbos are back in
and
>>I would hate to not do a proper job. My service
manual
>>calls for the removel of the oil cooler to get
the
>>intercooler out on the drivers side. The question
is,
>>is this true, it looks like it should be in front
of
>>the oil cooler, in anycase I'm ordering clips for
the
>>front panels but would like to know if I need to
take
>>out the oil cooler then I should order some
crush
>>washers at the same time. If anyone who has
removed
>>the incooler without removing the oil cooler I
would
>>like to hear from you on how to do
it.
>>
>>Peter 1992 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:54:19
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water Injection Tuning (long)
> to be a function of the
engine RPM and the boost pressure.
Or TPS input !
> * Boost
currently set at 0.8bar to 1.0bar on the street
> * Would like to run
1.0bar on the track without worries
Very conserative :-)
> *
Low Speed, High Underhood Temp Intercooling
> * Higher RPM
Intercooling
> * Detonation Prevention/Control at higher than stock
boost
>
> * Injector nozzle in y-pipe right before throttle
body
Too close for any intercooling purposes therefore it is only used to
control
detonation.
> Current Results:
> No stumbling or
apparent spark blow-out, no noticeable power loss due to
> over-cooling,
and no significant power gains (butt-dyno).
You will see no gain at
all.
> Questions:
> 1) Comments on my choice of activation point
for the
> WI? (0.55bar/8psi)
0.8 bars is well enough
> 2)
Comments on my current choice of RPM/flow curve?
Start to spray around
3500
> 3) What should I expect to feel (while driving) or
> see
(on dyno graphs) if I inject too much water?
Too much water causes spark
blowout and hesitation.
> 4) I've heard that the way to tune WI is to
increase
> the flow rate until you get some power loss or
>
stumbling and then back it off a little? Sound right?
Tune it to avoid
knock or high EGT
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:07
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@mvplabels.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Top 20
> I know there is a lot of talk about the top 2 or 3 fastest
stealths and
3kgts but is there a list anywhere (maybe Dave B. or Jeff L's
websites)
which contains the top 10 or 20 cars and owners times? This would
be a neat
resource as we could all strive to make the list and advance
towards the #1
position! We could have times approved by the admins perhaps
and every time
must be backed up by an slip.
> Food for
thought,
> Tom
> 92 VR4
> TNT3KGT
-
------------------------------------------>
"Food for thought",
eh? Perhaps you're eating at the wrong "diner". :-)
The most
accurate "Fastest Stealth & 3000GT" page has always been the one
that's
already on our Team3S website. It is updated whenever we get
new
timeslips, and has more entries than any other website. We take
timeslips
from members *and* non-members, (unlike some other websites), and
we *do
not* allow G-Tech times - only times that are backed up with a
timeslip.
The
www.Mn3S.org site may be a
bit slow, but at least it is updated on a
regular basis, and Curt works hard
to keep it accurate. The
www.3Si.orgsite appears to allow G-tech times,
but you'd have to ask them about it.
Their page looks broken today - it only
has about 15 entries (we have 85 on
www.Team3S.com ).
Since we don't carry
advertising (nor track visitors for advertiser's sucker
lists), Team3S is
also the *fastest loading* site. (For everything).
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-fastest.htmCheck
it out!
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 04 Mar 2002 18:14:01
-0600
From: Jon Bohlke <
bohlke_mobile@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Top 20
http://www.dragtimes.com is nice, I like the
car info that comes along
with the 1/4 times.
Jon
98 Pearl White
VR-4
http://3000gt.websnout.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:59:36
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Percentage
in drivetrain loss; was Re: Team3S: Hesitation ;-)
according to your
origional description of that method, what your have
is a coast down
measurement --- push in the clutch and measure the
loss. The actual numbers
are going to require losses under maximum
load how would they do
that.
Jim
Berry
======================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Monday, March
04, 2002 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Percentage in drivetrain loss; was Re: Team3S:
Hesitation ;-)
> Numbers can be found on the dyno curves on my 3000GT
pages. No theory as we
> measure drivetrrain loss and not are
guessing.
>
> You can search for the discussion in the
archive.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> > Hey, Roger,
let's discuss this.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:59:33
+0200
From: "Oleg" <
Oleg@3000gt.lv>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Japan and Euro CAPS needed
This is a multipart message in MIME
format.
I have both. What do you need?
Oleg
www.3000gt.lv *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:11:16
-0800
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Big Red Upgrades
I have a '91 VR4 and in Dec/Jan I replaced the front
rotors with
Porterfield rotors from Geoff at Speedtoys.com. I also put on
Porterfield
R4S front pads and replace all the brake lines with SS lines
(also from
Goeff, built by Porterfield). My new brake fluid is ATE Super
Blue Racing.
I'm thinking ahead 8 to 12 months and considering adding Big
Red calipers
as well.
Thus, I have a few questions.
(1) I'm
wondering if the new rotors I have are compatible with the big reds
or do I
need a different rotor. I got the Porterfield rotors with cryo
treatment.
Reading the Team3S FAQ it looks like there are options to have
single piece
rotors and 2 piece rotors.
(2) I'm curious as to whether the Big Reds fit
with stock VR4 17" wheels. A
friend with a Stealth had to go to 18" wheels
for the clearance. I'm
thinking that there may be a wheel difference between
the Stealth and
3000GT VR4 and that the stock 17" VR4 wheels might work with
the big reds.
I'm wondering if there are any comments on the need for
wheel upgrades. I'm
about ready to get new tires and if I may need to
upgrade wheels I'm
thinking that it may be a good idea to upsize the wheels
before getting new
tires.
Thanks for any info you can provide toward
me doing a future brake upgrade.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A.
Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:47
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
> (1) I'm wondering if the new rotors I
have are compatible with the big reds
> or do I need a different rotor. I
got the Porterfield rotors with cryo
> treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ
it looks like there are options to have
> single piece rotors and 2 piece
rotors.
- ---
Easy, 2nd gen OEM hardware works great with the BR
kit.
> (2) I'm curious as to whether the Big Reds fit with stock
VR4 17" wheels. A
> friend with a Stealth had to go to 18" wheels for the
clearance. I'm
> thinking that there may be a wheel difference between
the Stealth and
> 3000GT VR4 and that the stock 17" VR4 wheels might work
with the big reds.
- ---
I can never remember on this one..
>
I'm wondering if there are any comments on the need for wheel upgrades. I'm
> about ready to get new tires and if I may need to upgrade wheels I'm
> thinking that it may be a good idea to upsize the wheels before getting
new
> tires.
- ---
If you race, you need strength. More
spokes = better.
You'll find a lot of the thin/5spoke users bend rims a
lot.
Bob here has been chewing up wheels on a regular
basis.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:22:02
-0800
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
At 04:16 PM 3/4/02 , you wrote:
> > (1)
I'm wondering if the new rotors I have are compatible with the big
>
reds
> > or do I need a different rotor. I got the Porterfield rotors
with cryo
> > treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ it looks like there are
options to have
> > single piece rotors and 2 piece
rotors.
>---
>Easy, 2nd gen OEM hardware works great with the BR
kit.
I have a '91, thus 1st gen. I'm curious as to how different the 1st
gen and
2 gen rotors are.
-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A.
Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:27:05
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Well, I dont think the kit will bolt to a
1st gen car at all..so youre
lookin at a spindle upgrade for the BR
kit.
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Michael Gerhard wrote:
> At 04:16 PM
3/4/02 , you wrote:
> > > (1) I'm wondering if the new rotors I have
are compatible with the big
> > reds
> > > or do I need a
different rotor. I got the Porterfield rotors with cryo
> > >
treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ it looks like there are options to
have
> > > single piece rotors and 2 piece rotors.
>
>---
> >Easy, 2nd gen OEM hardware works great with the BR
kit.
>
> I have a '91, thus 1st gen. I'm curious as to how
different the 1st gen and
> 2 gen rotors are.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:11:38
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Y-pipe Retainer
Dustin,
IMHO the GTPro y-pipe is not only
overpriced, I question why you would want
an aluminum y-pipe. I cant
think of a more effective way to sink engine bay
heat into your intake any
faster. The DNPerformance piece is made of
stainless (low thermal
conductivity) and is almost half the
price.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Dustin Lenz" <
dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
To:
<
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Sent:
Monday, March 04, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Y-pipe
Retainer
I'm interested in NOT spending $350 for a piece of
pipe!
>From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
>To: "Team
3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Team3S: Y-pipe Retainer
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:10:40
-0500
>
>All,
>
>I have recently been contacted about
making a y-pipe retainer I've been
>using for the last 2 yrs.
available. This design is simply a yoke that
>holds the stock y-pipe
in place for those of us who don't wish to buy an
>aftermarket
y-pipe. Mine has functioned at 18psi without fault. The
yoke
>could easily be milled out on a production CNC. Like all
things of this
>nature, the price is heavily dependent on quantity.
If you would like more
>info or pics, please email
me.
>
>Regards,
>DaveT/92TT
>bdtrent@netzero.net
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:31:22
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
> (2) I'm curious as to whether the Big Reds
fit with stock VR4
> 17" wheels. A friend with a Stealth had to go
to 18" wheels
> for the clearance. I'm thinking that there may be a
wheel
> difference between the Stealth and 3000GT VR4 and that
the
> stock 17" VR4 wheels might work with the big reds.
I believe
Steve Lasher is experienced in this area with his ('92?)
VR-4. IIRC, he
said that the Big Reds will not fit with 1st generation 17"
VR-4
wheels. Steve, you out there?
I know first-hand that 1g wheels
will not fit with 2g brakes, and
the Big Reds are of similar
dimensions.
- --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:31:20
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Upgrades
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler"
<
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> I'm wondering if there are any comments on the need for wheel
upgrades
> If you race, you need strength. More spokes =
better.
>
> You'll find a lot of the thin/5spoke users bend rims a
lot.
>
> Bob here has been chewing up wheels on a regular
basis.
If he'd keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on
the wheels.
He, and occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting when they get
bored with
the track layout.
I've been running those puny looking
Enkie RP01's with no problems --- when
I got them I was a little concerned
about their durability. They are cast, 5 spoke
rims but they have held up
well to my abuse --- only one 360 and one 90 but
never in the dirt [ well
maybe a two off now and then ]. Geoff doesn't count two
off as an off track
excersion, he thinks that's just using all the track.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:34:24
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Upgrades
The reds will bolt on fine but you need the larger
rotors and the 2nd gen
wheels [ at least for the Stealth ]. I'm not sure
about the 1st gen VR4 wheels
although I think they won't fit either --- maybe
--- kinda
Jim
Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Cc: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, March 04, 2002 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Red
Upgrades
> Well, I dont think the kit will bolt to a 1st gen car at
all..so youre
> lookin at a spindle upgrade for the BR kit.
>
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Michael Gerhard wrote:
>
> > At
04:16 PM 3/4/02 , you wrote:
> > > > (1) I'm wondering if the new
rotors I have are compatible with the big
> > > reds
> >
> > or do I need a different rotor. I got the Porterfield rotors with
cryo
> > > > treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ it looks like
there are options to have
> > > > single piece rotors and 2 piece
rotors.
> > >---
> > >Easy, 2nd gen OEM hardware works
great with the BR kit.
> >
> > I have a '91, thus 1st gen.
I'm curious as to how different the 1st gen and
> > 2 gen rotors
are.
> >
> >
--------------------------------------------------------------
> >
Michael A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Pearl White
>
> Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:53:06
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
> > You'll find a lot of the
thin/5spoke users bend rims a lot.
> >
> > Bob here has been
chewing up wheels on a regular basis.
>
>
> If he'd keep his
damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on the wheels.
> He, and
occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting when they get bored with
> the
track layout.
- ---
Shit happens, you can be prepared or not. Your
choice. I dont belive
anyone goes off track on
purpose.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:59:53
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
I just did this upgrade last fall. You can
leave the spindles alone
although 1st gen wheels will not work and 1st gen
rotors will not work. You
can use your new brake lines, but will
require changing your caliper
fittings. This is easier than I thought
it would be once you get the
hardware you will need from Goodridge. The
17in RP01 wheels are a great
light weight, tight budget choice or better yet,
check out the SSR 18in.
wheels on Jeff Lucius' site. Once you have the wheels
the budget Big Red
upgrade requires a right and left Porsche 993 caliper
available through any
discount Porsche parts dealer. A set of 2nd gen
rotors, (3/4in. dia. larger
then 1st gen. with the cooling vanes facing the
outside of the wheel where
they belong). A set of caliper adapter
brackets, (this is the trickiest
part, I can send you the dimensioned print,
or Brad Bidell may have some for
sale) that I fabbed from aluminum
stock. If your not inclined to have the
brackets fabbed, I would look
into getting the whole kit from Brad B.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Cc: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, March 04, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Red
Upgrades
Well, I dont think the kit will bolt to a 1st gen car at all..so
youre
lookin at a spindle upgrade for the BR kit.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:13:49
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Upgrades
The point was , he seems to feel that the damage was a
result of off road
excursions, not necessarily because of poor
design.
Jim Berry
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > If he'd
keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on the wheels.
>
> He, and occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting when they get bored
with
> > the track layout.
> ---
> Shit happens, you can be
prepared or not. Your choice. I dont belive
> anyone goes off
track on purpose.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:18
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Hes wrong.
His wheels are pretty, but
-not- built for strength.
He has a LOT of real estate between wispy thin
spokes..its just much more
likely to get bent.
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002,
fastmax wrote:
> The point was , he seems to feel that the damage was
a result of off road
> excursions, not necessarily because of poor
design.
>
> Jim
Berry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff
Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
>
> > >
If he'd keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on the
wheels.
> > > He, and occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting when
they get bored with
> > > the track layout.
> > ---
>
> Shit happens, you can be prepared or not. Your choice. I dont
belive
> > anyone goes off track on purpose.
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:19:04
-0700
From: "Moe Prasad" <
mprasad01@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Y-pipe Retainer
DaveT/92TT,
I am very interested in
anything that will hold my Y-Pipe in place. I blow
my Y-pipe of at 13.5
psi. Let me know the price and when it might
be
available.
Rgds
Moe
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
To: "Team 3S"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, March 04, 2002 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Y-pipe
Retainer
> Dustin,
>
> IMHO the GTPro y-pipe is not only
overpriced, I question why you would
want
> an aluminum y-pipe. I
cant think of a more effective way to sink engine
bay
> heat into your
intake any faster. The DNPerformance piece is made of
> stainless
(low thermal conductivity) and is almost half the price.
>
>
Regards,
> DaveT/92TT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: "Dustin Lenz" <
dustin_lenz@hotmail.com>
>
To: <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Y-pipe
Retainer
>
> I'm interested in NOT spending $350 for a piece of
pipe!
>
> >From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
> >To:
"Team 3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
>Subject: Team3S: Y-pipe Retainer
> >Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:10:40
-0500
> >
> >All,
> >
> >I have recently
been contacted about making a y-pipe retainer I've been
> >using for
the last 2 yrs. available. This design is simply a yoke that
>
>holds the stock y-pipe in place for those of us who don't wish to buy
an
> >aftermarket y-pipe. Mine has functioned at 18psi without
fault. The
yoke
> >could easily be milled out on a production
CNC. Like all things of this
> >nature, the price is heavily
dependent on quantity. If you would like
more
> >info or pics,
please email me.
> >
> >Regards,
>
>DaveT/92TT
> >bdtrent@netzero.net
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:24:16
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Red Upgrades
So do the RP01's that's why I was a little concerned
about their strength.
As I mentionend they are cast, which is the least
desirable in terms of
strength and they are light, 19 or 20 #, and cheap
$190. All in All I've
been impressed with the wheels --- I don't have street
tires on them so
I inspect them before each event just in
case.
Jim
Berry
============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> Hes
wrong.
>
> His wheels are pretty, but -not- built for
strength.
>
> He has a LOT of real estate between wispy thin
spokes..its just much more
> likely to get bent.
>
> On Mon,
4 Mar 2002, fastmax wrote:
>
> > The point was , he seems to
feel that the damage was a result of off road
> > excursions, not
necessarily because of poor design.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Geoff Mohler"
<
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> To: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> >
> >
> > If he'd keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on the
wheels.
> > > > He, and occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting
when they get bored with
> > > > the track layout.
> >
> ---
> > > Shit happens, you can be prepared or not. Your
choice. I dont belive
> > > anyone goes off track on
purpose.
>
> Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:32:45
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Well..im just saying..
Wheels meant
for high stress are usually built in such a way..that they
can take that type
of abuse. If your vendor think they'd be cool at 80mph
going
offroad..go for it.
Youre never fully in control on a racetrack...the
sooner you stop thinking
you are, the sooner you'll see where im trying to go
with this. Not
calling you wrong, just I dont think you give Bob/ET the
credit that
anyone who's learning deserves..they keep coming back for
more! :^)
Whos gonna make it to March 16/17th?
The FULL
sears point configuration WITH the Nascar loop instead of the
normal turn 4,
5, 6, and straightaway.
Id betcha you'll never get to run that -very-
fast configuration ever
again in your life.
On Mon, 4 Mar 2002,
fastmax wrote:
> So do the RP01's that's why I was a little concerned
about their strength.
> As I mentionend they are cast, which is the least
desirable in terms of
> strength and they are light, 19 or 20 #, and cheap
$190. All in All I've
> been impressed with the wheels --- I don't have
street tires on them so
> I inspect them before each event just in
case.
>
> Jim
Berry
> ============================================
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
>
>
>
> Hes wrong.
> >
> > His wheels are pretty, but -not-
built for strength.
> >
> > He has a LOT of real estate
between wispy thin spokes..its just much more
> > likely to get
bent.
> >
> > On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, fastmax wrote:
> >
> > > The point was , he seems to feel that the damage was a result
of off road
> > > excursions, not necessarily because of poor
design.
> > >
> >
> Jim Berry
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Geoff
Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> > To: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > >
>
> > > > If he'd keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little
easier on the wheels.
> > > > > He, and occasionally his SO,
go gopher hunting when they get bored with
> > > > > the track
layout.
> > > > ---
> > > > Shit happens, you can
be prepared or not. Your choice. I dont belive
> > >
> anyone goes off track on purpose.
> >
> > Geoff
Mohler
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:31:02
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Geoff said:
>Youre never fully in
control on a racetrack...
The great Parnelli Jones once said that if you
are not out of control, you aren't going fast enough. We used to watch him bash
a TransAm car around in the 1970s, caroming off Mark Dohohue and George Folmer.
Of course, those were the days when race cars were CARS, not carbon fiber
replicas.
Sigh. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.
Rich/slow
old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:42:32
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Yes..back in the bad old days where the cars
were 1/2 the speed and 5x as
deadly.
Ya..the good ol days.
On
Mon, 4 Mar 2002,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
>
> Geoff said:
> >Youre never fully in control
on a racetrack...
>
> The great Parnelli Jones once said that if
you are not out of control, you aren't going fast enough. We used to watch him
bash a TransAm car around in the 1970s, caroming off Mark Dohohue and George
Folmer. Of course, those were the days when race cars were CARS, not carbon
fiber replicas.
>
> Sigh. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to
be.
>
> Rich/slow old poop
Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:12:44
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Red Upgrades
Hi Mike,
Yah, your rotors will
work, but you'll need a custom
bracket. Don't waste your time & $$$
fitting to the
tiny 295mm 1st gen rotor.
Consider this:
The Big
Reds were designed to be used with the Porsche
993 rotors which are two
pieced, 32mm thick, 322mm
dia, directionally cooled with curved veins, and
have
cored cast holes.
Most of the 3Sers that have Big Reds just
slapped them
over the 2nd gen rotors. If the stock rotor
wasn't
capable of dissapating enough heat to keep the stock
pads at a
workable temperature, why should putting
more pad on the same rotor surface
change heat
dissapation? That setup doesn't even take advantage
of
the whole pad surface. And some of them complain
about overheating
etc.
Let's assume the Big red pad is square at 127x60= 7620
If it
overhangs (non contact) by 6 then you loose 11%
of your braking
surface.
BTW the stock 1st & 2nd gen pads are 115x51=5865.
I
customized the Supra rotors to fit my TT. The Supra
rotors are only
30mm (like the stock 2nd gen), but
they are directionally cooled and are
larger
diameter(322mm vs stock 313mm) and allow the whole
Porsche pad to
contact the rotor surface.
Now if you can customize a thicker
(32mm) rotor, like
the Porsche rotor, to fit the TT, I think you'll have
a
fantastic braking system.
I also have 91 track car with the AP 6 piston
setup
that I haven't driven yet )-:). I think the AP pads
are
longer, but not as high. They are 150x51=7650
that's not much
different from the Porsche pad. The
HUGE difference is the size of the
AP rotor. It's
35mm THICK and about 330mm DIAMETER and
directionally
cooled. I'll bet $$$ that if you put that rotor
with
the Big Red, there won't be many complaints.
BTW the Porsche
996Turbo rotor is 34x330 and would be
more readily available than the custom
AP.
And yes, the Big Reds are more streetable than the AP.
And
yes the Big red pads are more affordable &
readily available in an
abundant selection of
compositions than either our stock or AP.
Porsche
dealers are everywhere in case you need a rebuild.
The stock
993 pads are only about $85 per set (that's
4pads). Good track pads are
about double that.
I've been looking for a used 996 or 993 rotor to
use
to protype to convert to my Stealth, but no luck so
far--I guess the
Porsche rotors just don't wear out.
(-;)
Be of good
cheer,
John
- --- Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov> wrote:
> I have
a '91 VR4 and in Dec/Jan I replaced the front
> rotors with
>
Porterfield rotors from Geoff at Speedtoys.com. I
> also put on
Porterfield
> R4S front pads and replace all the brake lines with
>
SS lines (also from
> Goeff, built by Porterfield). My new brake fluid
is
> ATE Super Blue Racing.
>
> I'm thinking ahead 8 to 12
months and considering
> adding Big Red calipers
> as well.
>
> Thus, I have a few questions.
>
> (1) I'm wondering if the
new rotors I have are
> compatible with the big reds
> or do I need
a different rotor. I got the
> Porterfield rotors with cryo
>
treatment. Reading the Team3S FAQ it looks like
> there are options to
have
> single piece rotors and 2 piece rotors.
>
> (2) I'm
curious as to whether the Big Reds fit with
> stock VR4 17" wheels. A
> friend with a Stealth had to go to 18" wheels for
> the
clearance. I'm
> thinking that there may be a wheel difference
>
between the Stealth and
> 3000GT VR4 and that the stock 17" VR4 wheels
might
> work with the big reds.
>
> I'm wondering if there
are any comments on the need
> for wheel upgrades. I'm
> about
ready to get new tires and if I may need to
> upgrade wheels I'm
>
thinking that it may be a good idea to upsize the
> wheels before getting
new
> tires.
>
> Thanks for any info you can provide toward
me doing
> a future brake upgrade.
>
> Michael A.
Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
> Pearl
White
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:21:31
-0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Clutch Master Cylinder Question
If my master cylinder has gone
south on me, do I need to replace the whole
thing, or is there a seal kit I
can use? The pictures in my service manual
make it look like it's a
serviceable assembly, but I'm not sure. Thanks.
Dennis Moore
93
Stealth ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:20:09
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: If you are this person..
ip68-10-58-161.rn.hr.cox.net
(68.10.58.161)
Its people like -you- which keep me wondering if I can
allow team3s to
host the CAPS software.
RTFM on the download
page..please.
If you want your ISP unblocked from the server, Email me
personally.
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:18:01
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Dented
wheels (was: Re: Team3S: Big Red Upgrades)
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > > If he'd
keep his damn car on the road it'd be a little easier on the
wheels. He, and
occasionally his SO, go gopher hunting when they get bored
with the track
layout.
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> Shit happens, you can be prepared or not. Your choice. I dont
believe
anyone goes off track on purpose.
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> The point was , he
seems to feel that the damage was a result of off road
excursions, not
necessarily because of poor
design.
> Jim Berry
-
----------------------------------------
Heh, heh... It isn't "poor
design", it's a "known weakness of the design",
IMO. Just to
clarify..., our Gewalt wheels lasted through 4 mild off-road
incidents, and
16 track weekends (and a couple of HPDE's that Geoff & Nissa
ran, before
they sold them to us). They never had a problem. But what
"did
them in" happened on the highway, not on the track. A highway
surface was
not patched sufficiently when going up a (roughly) 3" rise from a
low
surface to a higher one. The patch was only about 6" long , instead
of
being properly tapered for a couple of feet; what we hit looked like
this
___----- and we hit it at 80 instead of the 40 mph posted.
Road hazards
are way more dangerous than the average runs on the track...,
assuming that
you stay ON the track! :-)
Was it the 5-spoke
design? Was it the fact of the low profile (265/35Z18)?
Or was it the
shock of hitting (the equivalent of) a 3" curb at 80mph? I
think it was
the "curb", which probably would have dented most wheels, but
especially
those with light spokes and with only about 3.5" of air/rubber
between the
rim and the road.
The replacement wheels are also 18", and not quite as
low profile,
245/40ZR18 SSR GT-1's. They are made using the strongest
forging process,
but are also the same, open 5-spoke design. Ann Koch
has been using hers in
open track HPDE's for close to a year without
incident, in an heavier,
faster car than ours. Yet we managed to dent
at least one of them in a
single track day at Laguna Seca. I had one
270 spin at 60mph, and ET went
into the gravel at about 40 mph - that's all
it took.
Like Geoff said, low-profile 18's are pretty, but they are
probably not the
right choice at the track or even on rough roads, for that
matter. These
are expensive lessons for us, but when you race, it's to
be expected that
you'll stress components more than normal...
While we're
honing our driving skills, we *do* run our car to the max -
always at redline
and always slightly out of control... And even an
experienced driver
like Geoff has managed to dent forged racing wheels at
the track because of
running flat out at the edge of safety. That's just
how the game is
played.
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:32:51
-0700
From: "Mike & Cathy" <
micajoco@theofficenet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 5 speed
Will a 5-speed from a non turbo car be the same as a tt
awd ?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#772
***************************************