Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Tuesday, November 11 2003  Volume 02 : Number 297
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:33:24 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Response from Redline regarding Driveline Oil Condition
 
So here's what the horse had to say...  I sent him the URL to my web page and asked if he thought there was anything to be concerned about.
 
- ---------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be concerned with the darkening of the
fluids, this is normal. With use the red dye in
the MTL/MT-90 will darken plus particulate that
is trapped.
 
The rear differential darkness is more what I
would expect with a clutch type unit or Torsen,
though still not a concern.
 
I wouldn't see a need to use a shorted drain
interval, we recommend a 40 to 50,000 miles.
Based on these images I wouldn't see a need to
change more frequently or use a different product.
 
Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil
- ---------------------------------------------
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:50:24 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S: Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Hi guys,
 
Thanks to all for all the help so far. Here are further findings...
 
First, to answer the task list given by Jeff.
 
1) I do not know how much faith to put into Fuel Pressure readings I am
getting. The gauge I have is one of those under-the-hood kinds that I got at
Schucks. I have had it for some time and I would not doubt if it just shows
5 PSI too low. Far as connecting FPR to plenum, I said it felt a hair
different, that was by the seat of my pants, I may have been wrong. Have not
replaced fuel filter yet, will do that after I get another pressure gauge on
there to see if pressure is really low, but I doubt that the filter is the
problem. Thing that sucks is that I have no way to monitor the FPR while
under load. Ghetto solution would be to run the gauge out of the hood and
duct tape it to the windshield. However, I have no idea what I am looking
for. I know there is an equation for what the fuel pressure should be based
on manifold pressure, does anyone know what that is?
 
2) Read your site, very informative. ISC seems to be working perfectly. Did
a few other tests (turn on and off AC) and saw idle speeds go up. I think we
are good there.
 
3) Looks good to me, but I have no baseline to compare to.
 
4) Datalog done. More on this later.
 
5) What's DSO?
 
6) FPR line is good. Tested that long ago. Checked TB, we are all good
there.
 
7) Not sure what "OK" is, looks good to me. I will try to get some base
numbers off of a working car tonight.
 

Other stuff:
 
Checked TPS since I was worried about that. Did some reading too. Looks like
my readings of 16-18% with the throttle closed are normal. I also checked to
see when I hit 100% and I was wrong. The TPS shows properly raising numbers
up to WOT. A minor problem is that with the pedal comfortably down, the TPS
only shows high 90's. When I put some weight on it, the number goes to 100.
I think I need to tighten the cable a hair, but that's not a big deal.
 
Did some logs today with all items that Jeff asked for and then some.
I also disconnected the ECS computer, that did not seem to have an effect
other than stopping the annoying blinking in my dash.
 
www.tigran.com/car/idle_-_GFMS.PDB
Basic idle. Not perfectly smooth but ok.
 
www.tigran.com/car/Slow_rev_-_GFMS.PDB
Car standing still and revving up slowly till 6000rpm and then down again.
 
www.tigran.com/car/Fast_rev_-_GFMS.PDB
Again sitting still and revving quickly at various RPMs.
 
www.tigran.com/car/Problem_-_GFMS.PDB
Here is the log of the problem. After a little while you can see me drive a
bit, get on the onramp without issues. Then I put the car into 3rd to get
into lower RPMs and hammer it. Soon as boost builds you can see the stutter.
I then drop down to 2nd to get into higher RPMs and take off without any
issues.
 
While looking at the problem log, I can see O2 readings flipping out when
the problem occurs. I need a bit more expert help checking this out. I think
it's a clue.
 
After the run I pulled the front 3 plugs. All showed white powder on the
electrode indicating a lean condition.
 
One thing different today than it was yesterday is that the massive smoking
with always happened during our test runs is almost gone. Only thing I can
think of is that maybe the JDM needed to burn some old garbage out or that
my exhaust/cat had junk in it that needed some high-temp treatment.
 
Main thing I want to look at now is Fuel Pressure as compared to Manifold
pressure. Where can I get the equation?
 
Damn, another way too long email :)
 
Thanks,
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:00:08 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Main thing I want to look at now is Fuel Pressure as compared to
manifold pressure. Where can I get the equation?
 
Real simple - boost pressure + base fuel pressure...
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:03:41 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: [nws3] Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Tyson,
        I'm not familiar with the PDB file format (is that a TMO thing?), but based on your description, it sounds like you may indeed be running lean when you floor it.  When you're at WOT, your factory oxygen sensor should hit >0.80V (probably over 0.90V) and stay there.  If you see the signal dip down toward 0.5 or lower, then you are likely to be either running lean or missing.  It doesn't sound like you're missing.  Sounds like it might be time to weld that extra O2 bung into your downpipe and make a trek down here to play with the WB sensor.  If that says you're running lean, then you need to look at fuel delivery issues.
 
- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:04:34 -0600
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Still leaking after two tries
 
Advice please.
 
We put in a brand new Kormex 6 speed into my 94 VR4.
It leaked like a sieve.
 
We determined it was leaking from the output shaft, took it out, put in a
new output shaft seal, and put it back in.
 
It still leaks, but not as bad.
 
Where there was a puddle, now there are drips. It used to leak about a
half-ounce after a brisk run, and form a puddle about 6-8 in. around on the
garage floor. Now, it leaves streaks of fluid. So, it's leaking less, but
still leaking noticeably.
 
Now what?
 
I'm using regular ol' GL4 75-85 gear oil from O'Reilly's (or whatever. It's
out in the garage. I could go look if it was important)
 
Would any of this help:
 
Thicker oil?
Stop-leak?
Change the fluid to synthetic?
Get another trans from Kormex? (Another $200 shipping charge)
Take it out, and send it to CRC to be fixed correctly?
Never buy another trans from Kormex?
 
I'm going to put it up on the rack tomorrow at Denny's and sniff around.
Maybe it'll be leaking from the bellhousing gasket (we can always
hope--THAT can be sealed from the outside), but I suspect it'll be the
output shaft again.
 
I don't want to take the sumbitch out for the third time in 3 months. It's
getting cold out there, and I have imposed on my "Stealth Boy" friends in
Cedar Rapids and Des Moines enough by taking it out twice.
 
All ideas are welcome.
 
Forget that idea, Berry: I can't burn it for the insurance. Out here in
Iowa, we have tornadoes. (Old joke: "So how do you start a tornado?")
 
Rich/leaky old poop
94 VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:53 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Defi Control Unit Installation Guide
 
I haven't seen anyone mount equipment inside the shift boot area before...  it turns out there's plenty of unused space in there and it's a very conveniently accessible location.  Here's the web page with pictures and instructions:
 
http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Mods/All/DefiCtl/index.html
 
I also made a bracket to mount my turbo timer and boost controller (both 1/4 DIN) in the rear of the shift boot area.  This worked great, except that after powering everything up, I found out that Blitz puts some kind of polarizing filter on their DSBC and DTT-X displays that makes the display unreadable from that angle :(  However, there's plenty of room there, and I'm sure I'll end up mounting something there eventually.
 
- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:57:23 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Base fuel pressure being 34 PSI? What about under vacuum? I read somewhere
(and it didn't make sense to me) that the equation should be P=U+(M/2)
 
P = Fuel Pressure
U = Fuel line pressure with the hose unplugged
M = Manifold pressure (using vacuum as a negative).
 
I didn't understand why you divide by 2...
 
Thanks,
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:58:19 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S: [nws3] Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
The PDB format is used by the pocket logger viewer utility which can be
found at http://www.pocketlogger.com/plviewer.zip It is a JAVA app that
translates the CSVs to awesome graphs that can be easily read.
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:08:50 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Results and datalog numbers. (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Alright, here we go...  base fuel pressure on all 3000gt's is 43 psi (I
think spec says 42-45 psi), this is always measured with the vac port
disconnected from the FPR... under vacuum, of 20 in/hg (or whatever that
reading is), your fuel pressure should read between 30 and 34 psi...
under boost, as measured in psi, should be 43 psi + boost pressure, so
if you are running normal boost levels, say 12 psi, fuel pressure should
be 55 psi...
 
For the longest time I had problems in the DSM of getting high enough
fuel pressure under boost, but, then again, boost was 26 psi + 43 base
psi = 69 psi, almost 70 psi of fuel pressure...  Once I got that ironed
out, all my tuning issues went away...
 
There is no other equation needed...  base fuel pressure + boost
pressure = fuel line pressure (under positive pressures)
 
- -Cody
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:42:45 -0500
From: Christian Longtin <Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drivetrain Oil Pics
 
> http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3S/Pics/TT/DTOil/index.html
> I doubt I'd be able to "feel" a difference between the old and new fluids
for the transfer case and rear differential unless the old fluid were
severely deteriorated.  However, I did notice a marked improvement in
shifter engagement with the new fluid - more like the "cutting warm butter"
when engaging gears.  All fluids are Redline, and I the new fluids were
exactly the same brand/viscosity as the old fluids.
> Comments?  If you've changed your driveline fluids under similar
conditions, is this what you saw?
 
I recently did my drivetrain oil change and the old oil was also very dark.
(To me it looked more like motor oil) it wasn't as dark as yours. There's
one thing I find weird though. I also put all Red Line
in my drivetrain and my rear differential oil was yellow. (Not light red
like the one we see on the pictures) and i'm 99.9% sure that I put the same
stuff as you. (Redline 75W90 GL-5 )
Was there an error on your pictures or what else ???
 
Christian Longtin
1992 3000gt vr-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:58:50 -0500
From: millebi@kw.igs.net
Subject: Team3S: Re: Snowtires - Blizzak LM-22 or WS-50?
 
Hey Bob,
 
I used to use 225's in the winter until I discovered a few problems with
my aftermarket warranty showing higher milage than was actually
accumulating. You will discover that 225/45-17's will be awsome in the
snow ... just try an keep the fun factor within reasonable limits. Passing
people at 50+kph faster than them in the unplowed fast lane will get most
other people annoyed... I even had some idiot in a Mustang attempt to
follow me, only to do a 720 and limp back to crawl with everyone else. :)
FYI. I am currently using 235/50?-17's for snow tires at the moment... the
225's always seemed too "streched" on the standard wheels, but the 235's
aren't anywhere close to as good as the 225's in snow, sleet, freezing
rain or slush. (And people wonder why the Innu have so many words for
snow!)
 
AWD + AWS + 300HP + A Brain = FUN ^ 3.
 
Beware of 80% wheelspin and sudden traction ... can be hazardous to your
transfer case, and neck. Beware the white knuckled driver.
 
Bill
91 TT "Old Red"
(Still running ... getting new U-joints next week)
Humpty Dumpty was pushed...
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:29:23 -0500
From: Kraig Delaney <krgdelny@optonline.net>
Subject: Team3S: Team 3s: Rough Ride
 
Question:  Wondering if anyone knows a reason why this car would use
extra gas, we have a 1991 3000GT VR4, we know of an exhaust leak at the
front of the motor.  The car is running rough and we are experiencing
backfiring at time.  What senor, if any would be the problem?  O2 Senor?
Could the car be fooled by getting my air with the exhaust leak?  Need
help, already have my 91 Stealth in the garage in pieces and we need the
VR4 to work.  The car has 219,000 plus original miles on the turbos, we
just changed the seals in the fuel injectors, the spark plugs; Bosch
platinum, coil pack and the wires and this only improved the ride a
little bit.  Please, we need help!!!
 
Kraig
91 white 3000GT VR4
91 blue Stealth RT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:37:14 -0600
From: "William J. Crabtree" <wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Oil catch tanks: Gimmick or legit?
 
Before I wore out the bearings and galded my cylinder walls with my cast
pistons on my prior rebuild, I managed to rack up about 1,500 miles on my
motor.  When I tore it down, I could not BELIEVE how much carbon build up
there was in my motor, ALREADY!
 
SO, I'm strongly considering adding an oil catch tank to the pcv system in
an effort to try to prevent or at least slow this process.  Does anybody
think this is a good idea?  Bad idea?  Waste of money?
 
My old pistons are long gone, but I have the heads/valves as proof of what
I'm talking about.  If anybody would like to see pics, lemme know.
 
- -Jeff Crabtree
        '91 R/T TT(3SI #0499) currently working on rebuild 2.0
                2K Jeep TJ Sport
                        St. Louis, MO
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:21:08 -0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Team 3s: Rough Ride
 
Hey Kraig -
 
Your assumption is correct, if the exhaust leak is before the O2 sensor, it
will throw off its readings.  The sensor reads the amount of air in
the -exhaust- air, so if you are letting fresh air in... it will sense that
you are not adding enough fuel to burn all the oxygen in the air (lean) and
will consequently add unneeded fuel.  This will kill fuel economy, and can
certainly cause driveability problems if the leak is bad enough!
 
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
Needs some fresh air too
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:58:39 -0800 (PST)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Team 3s: Rough Ride
 
I have the same problem, often backfiring, huge fuel loss (1/4 tank),
some flatlines in the power bands, heavy gas smell when starting.
 
The exhaust leak is probably the exhaust manifold (in case you didn't
know where) - it seems to be common to these cars.
 
Things I have replaced in my never ending hunt to find a fix and an honest
mechanic: O2 sensors, fuel filter, 60k service, plugs, turbos, MAS, CAS,
spark wires, not fuel either (leading to etc.) as I run 98+, front
manifold, many gaskets.
 
If you find a fix, I would love to hear it (I am going to buy a
pocketlogger soon - hopefully the ECU will have the data I need).
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:56:53 -0500
From: "Mark Xomvimane" <markanthonyx@msn.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Snowtires - Blizzak LM-22 or WS-50?
 
Team 3/S,
 
              Since we've been on the subject matter for a while, can some
one tell me if, Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 245/40ZR-18 good winter tires, snow
tires? Aight If anyone has ever driven these tires in snow before let me
know.
 
Mark X.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:10:32 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil catch tanks: Gimmick or legit?
 
Shortest answer in my life :
 
Good idea !!
 
Roger G.
93 & 96'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:13:32 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock chromies - repair or replace?
 
Hey, Mike,
 
The place we hear about most is Wheels America, www.FixRim.com, who warranty
their work for life.  There is one in the Bay Area (Union City) that I've
used, with great results.  They can repair almost any wheel (out of maybe a
dozen I've brought in through the years, they've only said 'no' to one wheel).
The price is $109 for repair, refinishing, and a clear lacquer coating;
turnaround time is 24 hours.  A repair that includes a rechrome is $250.  But
they send them to L.A. for rechroming, so it takes a while, I understand.
They accept wheels with tires mounted, but they charge $16 to unmount or mount
a tire.  They won't remove a wheel from your car, however.  They've fixed
wheels for me that I was ready to throw out - pretty outstanding work...
 
- ---Forrest
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:17:01 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Results and datalog numbers.
 
Fuel pressure across the fuel injector must remain constant. That means that the pressure going into the injector (at the fuel rail) minus the pressure at the outlet of the injector (in the intake manifold) must remain constant. When it does, then flow rate remains constant. When that is so, the ECU can predictably control the injector.
 
Fuel line pressure should always be "base" pressure (no vacuum hose attached) plus plenum pressure. It is assumed the plenum and manifold are at the same pressure. But the truth is the manifold pressure must be at least slightly less than the plenum pressure for air to flow toward the manifold. The difference should be small and can be ignored for setting fuel line pressure.
 
Always:
Fuel line pressure = base pressure plus manifold pressure.
 
Manifold pressure is measured relative to atmospheric, and is not absolute.
 
Fuel line pressure and base pressure are absolute and are not relative.
 
According to the 1999 3000GT Service Manual, for the turbo DOHC models, the base pressure should be 295 to 315 kPa (42.7 to 45.6 psi) - no vacuum line attached. My base pressure is set to 43 psi ('92 TT with an Aeromotive A1000-6 AFPR).
 
At idle my manifold pressure is about -500 mm Hg (or -19.7 in. Hg or -9.67 psi) at about 600' ASL (St. Louis). The fuel line pressure should be:
 
43 psi + (- 9.67 psi) = 33.33 psi line pressure
 
Here in the Denver area (~5700' ASL) idle pressure is about -385 mm Hg (or -15.15 in. Hg or -7.44 psi). The fuel line pressure is:
 
43 psi + (-7.44 psi) = 35.56 psi  line pressure (and my gauge reads about 36 psi)
 
At 15.5 psi boost:
 
43 psi + 15.5 psi = 58.5 psi  line pressure
 
Forget the formula you mention below. It is not true for our fuel injection system.
 
Set fuel line pressure with the vacuum line disconnected. This is the only pressure that matters, the base pressure, when adjusting the FPR (if it can be adjusted) or checking base pressure. When checking the FPR for function, compare manifold pressure to base pressure and be sure the above formula applies.
 
Sidebar:
I have two fuel pressure sensors installed: one at the AFPR and one just after the fuel filter. I have replaced all fuel components except the rails between the filter and FPR (see the Garage Page at my web site). Fuel goes into the front rail and exits the rear rail, like stock. The difference between the two readings is usually 0.5 to 0.75 psi (greater at the filter).
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:12:24 -0500
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock chromies - repair or replace?
 
Call Steve at Pacific Rims in Pittsburg, CA. I had my stock 18" Chrome
wheels refinished in the patented Permastar process which looks like chrome
but wears like a powder coated wheel.  You really couldn't tell the
difference except that this process yields a slightly darker chrome finish
than stock and most people wouldn't notice it. To me it looks a little
richer.  They can also do a black chrome finish if you're looking for
something other than stock.
 
http://www.pacrims.com/permastar.html
 
Tommy
'96 VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:27:36 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Drivetrain Oil Pics
 
No error in the pictures, unless my monitor is a whole lot different than yours.  Redline 75W90 GL-5 gear oil is not red, or at least I've never seen it red.  It's a gold color, although it may have a very slight red tint to it. 
 
- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:10 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S: Found my problem - the hard way... (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Well, so I was on a mission to get some baseline numbers for the car today
and a local club member, Mike, offered his mostly stock '93 for testing
purposes. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to drive the VR4 down because
maybe we can do some quick basic part swapping (MAS etc) while I am there.
The car does run, just does not boost too well in low RPM, right? So I head
down there...
 
Driving her real nice, not even hitting anything past 0PSI, car feels fine,
got it in cruise control in 5th going about 75 when suddenly the car just
shuts off. The whole charismas tree of lights comes on and the natural
often-used reflex of having this happen way too much recently, kicks in. Hit
the clutch, go neutral, remind myself that power steering is gone and that I
got 1-2 good pumps of the brakes, flip on the hazards and start looking for
a place to land. Just so happens I am in a construction zone, no shoulders.
Suddenly out of nowhere a gap appears where construction guys park their
cars, BAM I'm there.
 
Come to a stop, crank it over... Everything feels fine, I got compression,
no banging around but I don't even get a sputter - no ignition. I'm like,
damn, coil came unplugged. Run outside, verify I got fuel pressure, reseated
coil plug, run back inside and crank - no change. No tools with me, but I do
have the pocket logger. Hook it up and guess what... Nothing! The
"Connected" icon comes up but the transmit is right at 0 and sometimes 1
packet. Numbers slowly fill the chart, but they are way off. TPS at
100, -121 deg coolant, stuff like that. When in datalog mode, nothing is
logged - no signal coming through. Check engine codes, EVERY SINGLE ONE is
on. I'm like "Well something is majorly messed". Clear all codes, they clear
for a split second then all appear again. Try shutting the car on and off,
verified my power cable to the logger, re-ran it to the cig lighter to make
sure I had power, still nothing. ECU not outputting anything but every
single error code in the book (a screen and a half worth). I run outside to
make sure a grenade didn't explode under the hood, no everything is still
there. Pull out a spark plug wire and place it where I can see it from the
car when I crank. Crank over, no spark.
 
In the meantime 3 cops pass by, all of whom I tried to flag over, none of
them stopped. Finally while I am on the phone calling tow trucks one pulls
up to inform me that I am in a 24 hour tow zone. I had already spoken to the
construction guys and they said that I would not be in their way if I left
the car there for a night, but the cop would not have it. Had to move it. So
$139 later it's back home.
 
I'm thinking my ECU just finally died and likely was on it's last legs
causing the funky problems we have been having. I guess in some weird way I
am happy this happened, this answers the questions I have had for the past
long while, I just wish the damn thing would have done it in the 50+ miles
of test driving I did within walking distance of my house or at least 3/4 of
a mile later where I could have rolled to an exit... I guess it could have
been worse. Had it died 3/4 mile sooner I would be blocking a lane on the
freeway...
 
What I need now:
 
Some definite way to test the ECU. Ideas?
Another 91-92 ECU to try in my car. Paul, call me good buddy :)
After this likely another ECU (see different years going for as low as $40
on ebay!).
An AEM EMS maybe? (Is it just me or did their prices go up?)
 
Thanks for all the help to all. Any additional test ideas would be great.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:31 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Modified Oil Filters?
 
So what is *better* oil?  Mobil 1 is still like around $18-$22 for enough to
do the car, and I thought it was the *preferred* oil of the list, no?
 
This might sound like the dummest question ever, but I've heard people say
that when running Mobil-1 syn you only have to change the filter every other
time...  So do I just drain and fill 4 qts and don't touch the old filter?
or Pull the filter, drain it and put it back on?  Can I really go 7,500
miles between oil changes with it?  That would mean only 2 changes a year
for me, instead of every 3 months... safe?
 
Thanks,
- -Erik
'94 R/T
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:15:56 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
Referring to this product:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=298&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&storeId=10101
 
Is it worth the $20, or should I be looking at spending the money on a
quality radiator style oil cooler?
 
- -Erik
'94 R/T
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:15:51 -0500
From: <eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil catch tanks: Gimmick or legit?
 
You know, I've seen them used a LOT on supercharged older (usually big block v8) motors, and seems to be a lot of believers in the drag racing community.  Hard to believe there's no merit to it.
 
Nick McDermott
93 VR-4 parts collection
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:23:42 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
I'm interested in seeing what others say about this, but I've always felt these things are a complete gimmick and worthless at that.  I can't imagine that strapping one of these on a filter thats smaller than a coffee cup can transfer any signficant amount of heat from oil buried inside the filter, and that is moving throught the filter at a rapid rate.  If I were you, I'd save my money for a quality radiator style oil cooler. 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:32:43 +0000
From: gabe92rttt@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Found my problem - the hard way... (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Tyson,
 
My ECU caused a lot of little problems in my car when it was dying.  Bad throttle response, bunch of error codes, etc.  When it did finally die, I could not start the car at all, much like your scenerio. 
 
Your ECU IS your problem, so you either need to snag another one or have your old one repaired.  If you can find a good ECU for $40, then you are damn lucky.  When I was searching for one, I couldn't find any on Ebay and the ones on 3si go for $200.  I decided to have it repaired at AVPRO, which is located in Florida I believe. Problem was, they could not find anything wrong with it!! I then tried autoecu.com and they found the problem promptly, notified me, and I had it back in less than a week!  It ran me $275 for repair and a full trasferable life time warranty on it with next day air shipping. A damn good deal if you ask me.  Give them a shot. 
 
Best of luck,
 
- --
Gabe Simoes
 
1992 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin Turbo
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:02:24 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
It for sure will not harm if mounted correctly. Butz I doubt that it will
help to cool the oil inside the filter. IMHO, it's a nice dress-up that can
be seen underneath the car.
 
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:15:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
Just depends(tm).
 
Cant it hurt?  No.
 
How much does it help..only God knows..but, looks sorta long-grained ricey
to me.
 
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes?  I can help...asking is free!  :)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:18:58 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Found my problem - the hard way... (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Well, until today we do not have a full testing procedure to check the ECU
if any part is worng. There can go many parts bad within the ECU, just the
resistor array, voltage regulators, condensors, etc. But looking onto the
ECU's that failed, there is none we know of that faild after 1993. This is
where the ECU got its first revision. Only older ones form 1991 on are prone
to fail so far (exceptions always proof the rule).
 
Trying another ECU seems to be not dangerous for the ECU itselfs as the
faults are "normally" caused by internal failures and not external
influences. IMHO, you should be able to install any pre-94 ECUs.
 
An AEM PMS doesn't help you at all. The stock ECU cannot be fully bypassed.
The both live together in the car.
 
Roger
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:47:43 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
Looks like SOMEONE is making an easy $18.
 
60 cents worth of parts + shipping.
 
Pete Rivenburg
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:51:21 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Found my problem - the hard way... (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Um, this isn't true, Roger.  The AEM EMS fully replaces the stock ECU.
The stock ECU is physically removed from the car, and the AEM EMS is
plugged in it's place.
 
- - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:42:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
Dude, if you can tell me where to find a foot of 4" alum cooling sheet for
60 cents..lemme know.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:59:39 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
I'm wondering if it can, in fact, hurt.  The idea of having a heat sink is to provide a mechanism by which heat can be rapidly disbursed.  I know from my days of doing amplifier installs that the *best* way to install amplifiers is to have the ribs in the amplifier running vertically so that heat can escape.  If you have the ribs running horizontally, they can trap heat, leading to overheating conditions.  Query if the same thing applies here--if the ribs are running in the right direction, can they trap and hold heat in, causing the filter to fail prematurely?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:55:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Oil filter coolers, gimmick or not?
 
Consider that you dont have a steady 'breeze' of air runnin thru the fins,
just plain convection.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:45:10 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Found my problem - the hard way... (WAS: Need expert help following a JDM install)
 
Yep, my BAD, I was still thinking of the PMS, the old thing that was a piggy
back thing.
 
If money ever recovers .... it's on my mods list ;-)
 
Roger
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #297
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