Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, January 24
2003 Volume 02 : Number 062
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:01:10 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Operation of Aeromotive FPR
Jeff wrote:
> If a person does not need the very
> maximum
voltage to the pump, then
> Erik's is the method of choice.
I guess I didn't make a big hoopla about it, but I made an update to my
Fuel Pump Rewire circuit with an addition that allows for maximum voltage
under WOT/high-load and resistor-lowered voltage under
idle/low-load. It's the optional dashed red wire in the diagram on my web
page.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:01:32 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: anti sway bar or strut bar
Kurt wrote:
> Of course, the first thing you must address is
stiffer
> and lower springs. Coilovers if there's anyway you can
>
afford it. Without those, you will see little real
> improvement
from sway bars.
Jim wrote:
> I have installed strut and anti-sway bars front
and
> back while using the stock ECS.
> The improvement was
dramatic.
I'm gonna have to second Jim's experience here. I also have the stock
ECS shocks and struts and stock springs. I installed, in sequence, a
front sway bar, a rear sway bar, and a front strut tower brace. I
noticed significant changes each time, and the largest was with the front
sway bar. My car is
*very* different from stock wrt handling
now. Ask the people with green faces after following me at the last
NWS3 gathering in their cars with stock suspension.
The car is much more stable and has far less body roll, even in Tour mode.
The car also rotates better in corners under power with less plowing and
more drifting. Also, it doesn't "hop" when the slip angle gets large
- it just kinda "slides". It's tough to explain in in words, but the
first time I drifted smoothly and deliberately around a corner under power
and under control, it was a beautiful thing.
I might get coil-overs eventually, but I'm pretty happy with things as they
are now. Tour mode still has a nice ride (although a little stiffer
than
stock) and Sport mode is great on smooth roads and a little jarring on
the really bad roads -friggin' Seattle-area :-) I can only imagine
what it's like for you MI guys...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:07:45 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Vacuum Tubing/Hose to use
Patrick wrote:
> What is the prevailing size vacuum tubing most
owners are
> using for running boost controllers, gauges, TT's, etc.?
For most of the smaller vacuum lines, I use thick-walled 3.5mm silicone
hose. For something that needs more diameter, I use thick-walled 6mm
hose. The only 6mm hose currently on my car is for my boost controller
(Blitz
DSBC) and I've contemplated reducing that to 3.5mm to help with
wastegate response time.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:27:39 -0800
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Where can I get an Idle Control Screw?
> An old trick I learned from local members Paul and Bob was to cut a
> small section (5mm) of rubber vacuum hose and put it over the idle
> screw. The hose should fit tightly into the hole and prevents
the
> screw from coming lose and falling out, which happens from
time
> to time on our cars. I did it, worked like a dream.
Sounds like a good trick. I went to the dealer today and ordered a
new screw and ring. Seems there is supposed to be a cap on there too
so I ordered that with it. $15 total. If the cap doesn't seem
adequate then I'm going to use vacuum hose as you suggest.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:30:48 -0600
From: "Richard Fennell" <
realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw:
Team3S: CHROME on a 97 SL RIM
I have the same problem on the fronts. It's a cheap chroming. There
are companies that rechrome rims. When mine get bad enough, I'll
check into that.
Mine's a '97 SL also.
Rich
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <
M3000GTSL84@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday,
January 23, 2003 7:52 PM
> The chrome on my 97 SL wheels have been peeling in the back for quite
> some
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:03:40 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: CHROME on a 97 SL RIM
Mike,
My track wheels were sold to me by Merritt after he used them
for a year or two for track use. They are currently on my car with
the Blizzak (winter) tires. I do not pretend to keep them in perfect
condition. The chrome (the thin top layer stuff) was flaking on the inside
so bad that when the tire people changed it (and were tired of cutting
their hands) they took a wire brush on one of their air tools and stripped
off all the chrome on the inside. So that is the state in which the
wheels are now. Some on the lip has been chipped off - some remains
- but the sharp stuff has been removed. These are track and winter
use wheels so I do not need the chrome (who chromes the inside of a wheel
anyway?). I am using 1997 SL wheels so they should be identical to
yours.
- --Flash!
The chrome on my 97 SL wheels have been peeling in the back for quite some
time. It has gotten SO BAD that my wheels were thrown off balance due to the
peeling. That is to say that part of the inside of the wheel has all
the
chrome, some has none, thus the minor vibration in my wheel. In order to
keep
them balanced I had to chip at the chrome.
FLASH-these are your track rims, do you notice anything peeling in the
back?
_mike
97 SL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:40:58 -0500
From: Mike Chapleski <
chaplesk@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Operation of Aeromotive FPR
I checked my FPR again today and things do not appear to
work as
they should. For instance I disconnected the manifold pressure
and the
pressure did not change I thought the pressure would drop 10
psi.
Unless of course the 43 psi I have set is absolute bottom and it
will
not drop below that. Anyway, it appears their is a
problem. Between
- -15 psi and 0 psi manifold pressure, the FPR is
stuck on 43 psi. Once
boost rises to 1 psi the FPR "pops" open and
fuel pressure jumps to 62
psi, which I believe is the max my fuel pump can
pump out. It is
difficult to tell if this is just a spike and it is
slow to adjust,
however I can't maintain boost long enough to verify
it. This weekend I
will try adding different pressures to FPR while
idling to verify operation.
Mike Chapleski
'95 Stealth RT TT
Miami, FL
>I want to return control of fp back to the FPR. The
higher-capacity
>Aeromotive (or SX) FPR might achieve this. However, the
real problem may be
>with the "small" size of the return line. I will try
the A1000-6 first and
>then replace the return line if
needed.
>
>Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:42:43 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <
scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Blowing ECI fuse
You've probably burnt out your ECU.
> Toyota places the O2 heater on the same fuse..
> perhaps Mitsu
does as well?
>
> Mine rubbed and shorted out.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 02:23:42 -0600
From: "Steve" <
denon11@insightbb.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need Kumho Ecsta Tyres
HI,Aamer
The best prices on tires I have come
across
is Discount Tire Direct.
They also offer FREE SHIPPING
with any order
And you don't pay TAX.
The price on the tire
you specified is $97.00 Each
Ecsta Supra 712
245/50ZR-16
Click The link below to go directly to there web
site.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/
Hope this helped.
Best wishes, Steve.......
- -----Original Message-----
From: Aamer Abbas
Sent: Thursday,
January 23, 2003 2:38 PM
Hello everyone. I have had Kumho Ecsta Supra tyres on my car for a while
now; but they are starting to wear thin.
I have been quite happy with these tyres and I would like to buy them
again.
The problem is that last time I ordered these tyres, it was through one of
my friends who works at an auto shop and could get me a discount. Since I
no longer live near this friend, I was hoping someone on this list could
give me a tip about the cheapest place to get these tyres.
I still have the stock 16 inch wheels that came with the car and my current
tyre size is 245/50.
Thanks for your help.
- --
Aamer Abbas
Black 1994 3000GT (DOHC/Naturally Aspirated)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:32:38 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Operation of Aeromotive FPR
Sorry Erik. I guess I haven't kept up.
Perhaps "maximum voltage" is too relative a term. Specifically, I see 0.11
to
0.13 drop between system voltage (alternator working; measured either at
the
battery or on the datalogger) and voltage at the pump (measured between
the
wire that attaches to the pump and the ground on the housing). The drop
could
be less but I only used a 14-ga wire because the length was ~2 feet
and my
design goal was only a 1% drop or less. A 0-ga wire would have netted
me a
0.005 v drop.
What exactly is the difference you seen then between system voltage and
fuel
pump voltage with your optional setup?
The 10-ga wire you suggest as an option will have at least a 0.2 voltage
drop
along a length of 10 feet. Not that this is bad; in fact it is fine for
most,
if not nearly all, setups. It just depends on what voltage drop a
person is
willing to accept or how much output (supplied voltage) they need
from the
pump.
==================================================
If a person wants the very maximum voltage to the fuel pump (that is,
~0.005 V
less than system voltage) without the use of an amplifier (such as
the Kenne
Bell Boost-a-Pump, the Jacob Electronics Accuvolt FR-750, or the
MSD Fuel Pump
Booster) then the battery must be located near the pump and a
0-ga size wire
must be run a short distance. Granted, this is rarely ever
needed.
I still think Erik's design is perfect for those that don't want to move
the
battery to the rear compartment or run 0-ga wires through the car.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Sent:
Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:01 PM
Jeff wrote:
> If a person does not need the very
> maximum
voltage to the pump, then
> Erik's is the method of choice.
I guess I didn't make a big hoopla about it, but I made an update to my
Fuel Pump Rewire circuit with an addition that allows for maximum voltage
under WOT/high-load and resistor-lowered voltage under
idle/low-load. It's the optional dashed red wire in the diagram on my web
page.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:19:47 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Operation of Aeromotive FPR
When you disconnected the hose from the manifold you essentially told the
FPR
that you are at 0 boost (atmospheric pressure), that is, not at idle
(where
pressure would be something like -15 to -20 in Hg , or -7.5 to -9.5
psi,
depending on engine condition and elevation).
The FPR should read ~43 psi without the hose attached (if you want factory-
like settings of 43-45 psi). At idle, re-attaching the hose should draw
down
the fp to 43 minus 7 to 9 psi (unless you are routing the hose through
the
factory fp solenoid, which will subtract another few psi).
Remember, all these pressures are gauge pressures, that is relative to
atmospheric. At 0 boost the manifold gauge pressure (psig) is 0 but manifold
absolute pressure (psia) is ~14.7 psi at sea level. Same for fuel line
pressure, which would be 43 psig or ~57.7 psia at sea level. As far as I
know,
fuel pump and fuel injector ratings always use psig.
Regardless, from your description the FPR is not reducing pressure when it
sees manifold vacuum. It does sound like something might be wrong it. Have
you
tried using a hand pump on it yet to eliminate any possible problem with
the
hoses, etc.?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chapleski" <
chaplesk@bellsouth.net>
Sent:
Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:40 PM
I checked my FPR again today and things do not appear to
work as
they should. For instance I disconnected the manifold pressure
and the
pressure did not change I thought the pressure would drop 10
psi.
Unless of course the 43 psi I have set is absolute bottom and it
will
not drop below that. Anyway, it appears their is a
problem. Between
- -15 psi and 0 psi manifold pressure, the FPR is
stuck on 43 psi. Once
boost rises to 1 psi the FPR "pops" open and
fuel pressure jumps to 62
psi, which I believe is the max my fuel pump can
pump out. It is
difficult to tell if this is just a spike and it is
slow to adjust,
however I can't maintain boost long enough to verify
it. This weekend I
will try adding different pressures to FPR while
idling to verify operation.
Mike Chapleski
'95 Stealth RT TT
Miami, FL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:19:51 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Operation of Aeromotive FPR
> The FPR should read ~43 psi without the hose attached (if you want
> factory- like settings of 43-45 psi). At idle, re-attaching the hose
> should draw down the fp to 43 minus 7 to 9 psi (unless you are routing
> the hose through the factory fp solenoid, which will subtract another
> few psi).
I'm a little confused by your wording here --- the only thing the stock
solenoid can do is add a little air to the control line and reduce the
pressure differential across the injectors. At idle the manifold pressure
will be about -10 psi and the ECU/fuel pressure solenoid adds air to the
regulator control so it thinks there
is -5 psi in the manifold. This in turn
sets the fuel pressure at 38 psi [43 - 5 ]
rather than the actual
value of 33 psi [ 43 - 10 ].
yes/no/maybe ?!?!?!?!?
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:23:36 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Operation of Aeromotive FPR
>> the only thing the stock solenoid can do is add a little air to
the
>> control line
That is correct. When the ECU energizes the fp solenoid it allows a little
bit
of atmospheric pressure into the hose, raising (not lowering) the fuel
line
pressure. According to the Laser TIM this happens at engine start when
the
coolant and intake air temps are high with the purpose of reducing fuel
vapors.
My statement below was wrong (not sure what I was thinking of). Sometime
during my reading of the manuals I got the idea that it lowered pressure for
some reason. That is clearly wrong. Thanks for pointing this out. Looks like
I'll try removing it from the loop when I upgrade the FPR and see if there
are
any starting problems (or less starting problems).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:54:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Kryjevski" <
abk4@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: anti sway bar and strut bar
Hello:
I would like to thank everybody for their responses.
EricB of 3SX told me that the rear strut tower bar wouldn't change much
because in the rear there is a major frame element connecting shock
towers. So, I am thinking of beginning with the reinforced rear sway bar
and front strut tower bar.
I am wondering if the front strut tower bar will interfere with the battery
(I happen to have a big one). Has anybody installed front "Ultimate
Performance Strut Tower Bar" of 3SX with a stock sized battery?
Thank you.
Andrei Kryjevski.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:33:03 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: anti sway bar and strut bar
Andrei - This has been discussed before (find it in the archives) but the
"Ultimate Performance Strut Tower Bar" is probably not the best choice for
stiffening our cars. I am biased since I have not tried one but I
feel the construction of this pales in comparison to Chris' TEC
Performance strut tower bars (he now offers rear bars as well as front). It is
well worth the extra investment to get the TEC bar. This will,
however, interfere with your battery as it almost requires one no larger
than an Optima Red Top or Yellow Top battery.
I don't know who manufacturers the "Ultimate" bar on the 3SX site but you
can contact Chris at TEC Performance,
http://tecperformance.com/, and give him
the dimensions of your battery (or how much it sticks above the
surrounding areas) and he will be able to tell you if his bar will
clear.
- --Flash!
Rear anti-sway bar upgrade only -> anyone need a 3SX front
anti-sway bar for their AWD?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:46:45 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Need Kumho Ecsta Tyres
Check TIRERACK site for a good start, then check local dealers who will
match or beat it. Remember to inquire about mount/balance to get the full
story. Consider BFG or other alternatives too.
How many miles make the Kumhos thin?
Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:55:03 -0800
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S:
[Fwd: Adventure in braking]
Forwarded for John Christian:
It would be well for all those contemplating brake problems/upgrades to
read the first two paragraphs.
"Why the 930 Upgrade? Why not the "Boxster" or 964 calipers?
Most of you are here, and considering upgrading, because of a heat
problem. You're loosing the pedal half way through a track session, eating
up pads and rotors at an alarming rate, generally not feeling confident in
the braking performance.
The main part of a braking system that has to deal with the heat
absorption and dissipation is the brake rotor - not the calipers.
So their size and mass is the main factor in choosing and upgrade.
Simply put the 930 upgrade offers the largest rotor size available that
will fit inside stock wheels and narrow body of most 911's and 914's. The
Boxster and 964 upgrades that are being sold are based on a stock size 911
Carrera rotor (24 x 289mm). While the calipers are noticeably larger, and
provide more stopping power than the original small steel calipers, they
actually make the main problem worse! Putting more heat energy into
the same small rotor does not solve problems, it makes them
worse..."
Be of good cheer,
John
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:44:51 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Front strut bar interferes with battery?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Kryjevski" <
abk4@u.washington.edu>
>
Hello:
> I would like to thank everybody for their responses.
>
--------snip---------->
> I am wondering if the front strut tower bar
will interfere with the
> battery (I happen to have a big one). Has
anybody installed front
> "Ultimate Performance Strut Tower Bar" of 3SX
with a stock sized
> battery? Thank you.
- ----------------->
No, it will not fit with a standard or large battery. I installed the
TEC Performance bar (which has even more clearance than the "Ultimate"
bar), and it wasn't even close. You can see the pictures and specs
for maximum battery height on the page on our website detailing the
installation:
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-StrutBar1.htm
Best,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:00:13 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Blowing ECI fuse
Many thanks to all that replied... Ended up tracing down a couple crimped
wires that were shorting out... (I wasn't with the car - I had my
brother take it to a friends shop to figure this one out)
At any rate, I searched the 3SI archives, and got the same responses as
most people here put... Ended up finding out that most people
replace the ECU first, as this is advised by the dealer as first course of
action... What I found by searching through archives was that 99% of the time
it was a short in something, somewhere, sometimes as simple as a bad
relay, other times a short in a wire...
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Cooper
Sent: Thursday,
January 23, 2003 11:43 PM
You've probably burnt out your ECU.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:33:42 -0500
From: "Walter D. Best" <
wdb039@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Where can I get an Idle Control Screw?
Has anyone answered you on this?
Same thing happened to me about two years ago. The screw has a little
(no
5) O-ring and they seem to dry out and allow the screw to work out.
You should also get that little black rubber plug that keeps dirt out too.
Anyway if no one has written you back with the part numbers, let me know
and I'll go out and get the part numbers off the extra set I now keep in
my trunk as spares.
I got my parts from West Broad Mitsubishi in Richmond VA. If I
remember correctly their phone number is 1-800-229-1001, plus they give us
a discount.
Hope this helps, sorry it took me this long to get back to you but I am
staying busy with polishing and powder coating. I got a long day
tomorrow already scheduled, might as well to cold to ride the
Harley.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:03:10 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Ek2 Off Topic?
I guess this would be Off-Topic as to the "technical discussions of
3000GT/Stealth"? I don't know how "technical" this post is going to be but
it is certainly important to the Team3S community.
I heard over my local nws3 board that Bob K (eK2mfg) got banned from the
board for the last comments he made on this forum. I am not posting to
cry, complain or riot about my local member being banned. I am posting
this email to bring out some double standards and some plain weird
policies on this board. I understand that this is a private forum, it is not a
democracy and all that but I believe that when rules are set, they need to
be clear, enforced equally on all in the same exact manner and enforced
every time regardless of whom breaks them.
Examples of double standards are bound, just look through the board history
of posts. 34 posts about what pre-cats were?! Or 22 posts on a simple DP
question. A flood of off-topic flames against me because I spoke up
against Stainless Steel? It was not on-topic, plenty of bickering about
nothing there by a number of people. What was done? I don't know, but I see
those people post here still.
Bob K was smacked down by the admins for placing a marry charismas message
in his signature. WTF?! Marry Quanza, Hanukah and Ramadan to all! This is
an International board. Wishing someone happiness regardless of occasion
is not a crime! If you have a problem with someone based on nothing more
than religion.... I'll drop that one there... We would be more right in making
a rule that no "American Standard" measurements should be used and that we
all use metric measurements only. This is an international board,
right?
I know Bob is not a saint. You guys should have seen the flame war that him
and I got into on nws3 few months ago over something I said that must have
not come out right. Bob can lose his cool and write a long heated
editorial, but if you actually read it, he is not 100% wrong! There is
double standards here towards certain members and gross violations of board
policies go unpunished to some, whereas a small criticism of the admins
gets you banned.
Another suggestion while I am hanging the laundry: I (and I'm sure
many
others) get yelled at for not deleting the tail end of our emails
because Digest members don't like it. Sorry guys, but I personally like
not having to sift through the 12,000+ emails in my "Team3S" folder to
find out what questions the email in front of me is answering. I would
like to scroll down and read, its much better. There is a lot of free
software out there, and a number of people on here that could write a
routine, script or something else to automate stripping of the "original
message" for the digest members. Make life easier for everyone. But rather
than that, the board admins send out threatening notifications. Can we change
that please?
Anyhow, I just want to voice my opinion that banning of Bobk was not just
and serves to show double standards on the board which should be resolved
in order for all to have enjoyable technical chats about the 3S line of
cars. For that purpose this board is still one of a kind.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#62
**************************************
