Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, August 8
2002 Volume 01 : Number
919
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:22:53 -0400
From:
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.comSubject:
Team3S: re: Pulling Hair out over Fuel Pump Assembly
I had the same
problem when I changed my fuel pump. In my case, the high
pressure steel pipe
broke in two! I bought a "fuel line repair kit" from my
local auto parts
store. It cost about $8. The kit comes with a steel
adapter pipe that's
tapered so it will fit inside the broken pipe flush
with the pump housing
top. It also comes with a choice of male fittings so
it can mate with the
female fitting at the coupling near the pump.
Unfortunately, the provided
couplings are not metric, so you have to
improvise a bit.
You'll need
to purchase a new coupling with compression fittings. Attach
the new pipe to
one end of the compression fitting, and cut off the bent
portion of the old
broken pipe so that you can use the old fitting from it,
and attach it to the
other end of the compression fitting. You'll also need
a propane torch and
solder to secure the new pipe to the fuel pump housing
assy.
All
together, it cost me about $15 as opposed to the $389 for a complete
assy.
The only downside of this fix is that you are actually decreasing the
inside
diamter of the output pipe for a short distance, thus restricting
the fuel
flow a bit. However, I've experienced no problems so far.
I have a sketch
I can send you privately that might explain it a little
better. Just let me
know if you need it. Another 3S buddy had the same
problem and this fix
worked for him, too.
Jeff W.
>Alright, I went to change the
fuel pump and while trying to get the high
>pressure line apart, the metal
line from the fuel pump assembly bent
>pretty bad. I still don't
even have it disconnected. I called up to
>order a new pump assembly
and they only sell it complete with fuel
>pump!. They want $389 for
it. Does anyone have any suggestions or have
>a fuel pump assembly
lying around that they want to sell? Thanks for
>any
assistance
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:30:03
-0400
From:
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.comSubject:
Team3S: re: O2 Sensor Question
Upon further inspection last night, I saw
that the 4 wires are actually
connected, but there is a piece of flat mesh
wire that runs thorugh the
harness just under the white wire. The Electrical
Manual shows that the
white wire is supposed to be "shielded". On mine, the
white wire is missing
about 1/4" of insulation just before the connector at
the plenum, thus
exposing some bare wire. It's at this same point where the
mesh wire ends,
and is not connected to anything. So, thinking that
the
mesh wire was at one time connected to the white wire where the
insulation
was missing, I connected them together. This resulted in no
reading from
the front O2 sensor at all. When I pulled the mesh wire loose
again, the O2
started showing readings again.
So my new question
is.......what's this mesh wire supposed to be connected
to, if
anything?
Jeff W.
- ------Original Message------
Date: Tue, 06
Aug 2002 15:37:58 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: O2 Sensor Question
Our stock oxygen sensors are 4-wire,
heated, Zirconia, thimble-type oxygen
sensors. Stamped on each sensor is "NGK
303H". This type of sensor is
heated
to bring it into its operating
temperature range quicker than just the
exhaust
could do it. That just
means the A/F is controlled sooner by the ECM and
emissions are improved.
Once the engine is warm the "heated" part of the
sensor has little influence
except perhaps to keep the sensor warm during
prolonged idling.
Track
performance *should* not be affected because our ECM does not use the
oxygen
sensors during heavy load cruising or acceleration. It uses internal
fuel
maps instead.
- - ----- Original Message -----
From: <
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, August 06, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: Team3S: O2 Sensor
Question
It is my understanding that our TT cars have heated O2 sensors,
although I
don't really know what this means or what this feature does for
the engine.
I've noticed for some time, that one of the 4 wires that connect
to my
front O2 sensor is broken. According to the wiring diagrams, its the
wire
that supplies voltage (heat?) to the sensor. My car runs OK, but has
never
performed at the track as well as other 3S's with similar mods. My
O2
readings seem to be OK, but I normally have to set the fuel controller
a
little on the rich side to obtain optimal readings. And the front O2
sensor
typically shows a slightly richer mixture than the
rear.
Because of where the wire is broken, it will be a PITA to repair.
Is this
something I should be concerned about? Does this "heater" do anything
for
our cars once the engine has warmed up? Could this possibly be
affecting
the car's performance at the track?
Jeff
W.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:41:03
-0700 (PDT)
From: Roger Ludwig <
yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Bumper Damaged....
Little civic backed into me in the parking
lot
yesterday. Not much damage, a little crack, a little
dent and a
gouge... all are in the bumper (front). Not
sure if this can be fixed or if
it will need to be
replaced, it's not bad at all.
If it needs to be
replaced, I might consider putting a
99 nose on.
Is there a 99 front end
for 2nd gens that does NOT
require changing the headlights?
If not, what
do you guys/gals suggest.
Roger
L
F15DOC
__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:55:10
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
>In addition - you can also try
removing all the legal emissions stuff
>that the US has on it like a
catalytic converter, pre-cats, and stuff
>like that. I don't know
how nice the German folk are to cars removing
>those things but when
importing a car from Europe to the States it
>requires all sorts of
exhaust add-ons to be legal.
Nononono, this not true at all ! You are not
allowed to change anything on
the car emmission parts. You have to chec
kemissions every secodn year
(depending o nthe age of the car) Also if there
is an aftermarket exhaust
you probably have to measure the noise by the TÜV
government and if it is
too loud you may have to replace it by an original
(Borla for example).
Same to the brakes and suspension parts. Open element
air cleaners like the
FIPK are not allowed too (who cares ?)
>The
fog light in the back is called something else but it is used both
>in
heavy fog so they do not have 100+ car pile-ups on the Autobahn as
>well
as when parking. You park against the street and the light is on
>the rear
driver's corner so that cars will not hit you as you are
>parked. If
you drive on the left-side (England) then this light would
>be on the
Passenger side rear corner.
No, unfortunately this is wrong. The rear fog
light is only allowed in fog
weather conditions ! It is never ever allowed
to have it on on parked
cars... fee is about 40 Euros. They are much
brighter than the other
lights. On the European cars, the most inner red
lights are the fogs ...
and both are light up the same time when
activated.... this one side light
stuff is not regulated at
all.
>Don't forget about the side marker lights on the front quarter
panels.
Often not needed.
>Don't forget about headlight
washers.
Only necessary if the car is equipped with true XENONs
(therefore not our
cars). Therefore not needed at all.
>Look at
Roger Gerl's site,
www.rtec.ch, for some of
these items (like
>the headlight washer tank).
As said, not needed
:)
>I'm thinking the oil and fuel system will be fine but make sure
you do
>not use Leaded fuel or else remove the O2 sensors. They
should have
>Unleaded over there but just watch that for a little
bit.
Hahahaha, we have 89,91,93,95 and 98 ROZ here in Europe ...
available
everywere ! Germany is 95 and 98... Hey, we are quite ahead with
the
development than the States ... just an example :in Germany, there is no
speed limit on the Autobahn if there is no sign :-))))
Roger,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:17:45
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
I didn't have to do ANYTHING to my Stealth
to register it in Germany
due to the Status of Forces Agreement that covered
me as a DOD
civilian. Unfortunately, the SOFA in England does not offer
such an
exemption and lighting modifications were required to pass the
UK's
strict MOT inspection (luckily, I didn't have to go through the
SVA
process, which is even worse). I documented everything I did on a
web
page at
http://www.team3s.com/~matthews/eurospec.html.
Since you're
retired, I'll assume you aren't covered by a SOFA and that the
changes
you'll need to make will be similar. The car registration
office at
any American base should be able to provide you with the
exact
modifications required, and they may also be able to recommend a
local
shop that is experienced at doing the work. Good luck, and enjoy
the
Autobahn! :-)
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire,
England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:24:37
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
Thanks, Rog. Some of the "laws" have
changed since I was there. There
are some older cars (Yugo, Opel, and
the occasional VW) that has an
amber-type of light way down low near the
ground on the rear that was
left on when parked. Like 2W or something
real low that could be left
on for many hours and not drain the
battery. This is what I was
thinking was the rear fog light.
Thanks for correcting me.
That exhaust stuff is a change too. It
used to be that you were allowed
to bring it down to the lower level of
emissions and things. Maybe that
meant adding the OEM part from the
European car instead of actually
removing things though. I never had to
do that so never looked into it.
No open air elements? Weird laws you
got there.
Didn't know headlight washers for only Xenon. Any reason
behind that?
And no speed on the Autobahn until you are "within proximity
of a town"
then it slows down to about 75-100 mph and then closer to town it
is
more like our 65 mph. I think this is partly to keep noise down
but
also for people merging at the "drei Ecke" or triangles (instead of
our
cloverleaf style) so they only have to merge at 70 mph instead of
160
mph. On the big autobahn this was supposed to be "understood" as
not
many speed limit signs were posted or at speeds of 120 mph we were
too
excited and didn't pay attention to them. Only got pulled over once
and
that was with me driving (illegal at the time since I was not 21 and
did
not have an International license) but it was the summer the Berlin
Wall
came down and a former East German "Volks Polizei" wagon trapped about
8
cars - somehow I managed to get a picture taken before the man with
the
machine gun approached my window. Needless to say we watched our
speed
for the rest of the trip.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002
11:55
Nononono, this not true at all ! You are not allowed to change
anything
on
the car emmission parts. You have to chec kemissions every
secodn year
(depending o nthe age of the car) Also if there is an
aftermarket
exhaust
you probably have to measure the noise by the TÜV
government and if it
is
too loud you may have to replace it by an
original (Borla for example).
Same to the brakes and suspension parts. Open
element air cleaners like
the
FIPK are not allowed too (who cares
?)
No, unfortunately this is wrong. The rear fog light is only allowed
in
fog
weather conditions ! It is never ever allowed to have it on on
parked
cars... fee is about 40 Euros. They are much brighter than the other
lights. On the European cars, the most inner red lights are the fogs
...
and both are light up the same time when activated.... this one
side
light
stuff is not regulated at all.
Hahahaha, we have
89,91,93,95 and 98 ROZ here in Europe ... available
everywere ! Germany is
95 and 98... Hey, we are quite ahead with the
development than the States
... just an example :in Germany, there is no
speed limit on the Autobahn
if there is no sign :-))))
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:24:15
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
propane injection explained ???
Not sure what you're using for propane
storage but a DOT certified tank is
NOT safe in the engine compartment ----
the temps in the engine bay can
exceed 150º which results in a tank vapor
pressure of up to 300 psi which
exceeds the tank safety relief valve
settings. In addition the DOT tanks are
rated at 240 psi and California
State requires a tank rated in excess of
250 psi. The only commercial
tanks that fit those requirements are the ASME
spec tanks which also includes
the check valve that closes if the valves are
damaged. The smallest I've
found are 25# tanks and are 9" in diameter
and 20" long. I have no doubt you
could get a custom tank designed but I'd
think the cost would be very
high.
Jim
Berry
===================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: propane injection
explained ???
> I have made my own propane setup which I planned
to market, but am still
> testing. I think that my system and the best out
there thus far, but I am
> keeping it under wraps until I am 100%
satisfied with it and till I can get
> a copyright to the design. I have
been using it for about a month with
> awesome results. The system
currently on my car is mounted under the hood
> for many reasons, safety
being one of them. One thing I can say is that I
> did not expect nearly
as much of an improvement form it as I have had. I did
> some math and the
propane under boost would make up less than 20% of the
> total fuel going
into the engine. Having as the octane ratings were so
> close, 92 and 104
I did not expect a big difference, but reading some of the
> knock sensor
outputs before and after I am simply stunned. There is no more
> knock,
period! I do not know the science behind it, but it works and that's
> all
there is to it.
>
> Tyson
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:00:22
-0700
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler" <
jtabler@summitmicro.com>
Subject:
Team3S: sticking accelerator on '92 VR4
Hi All,
Has anyone experienced
a sticking accelerator ('92 VR4)? I did this
morning, and it's a
little unnerving.
I don't think it is the carpet, floor mat, or any trim
piece. I'll have
to wait and have a closer look at the linkage when the
engine is cool.
If you have seen this, and know what your root cause was,
I'd like to
hear about it.
Thanks,
John
Tabler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:31:08
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
Just out of my curiosity.... I know that
there are 2 ways to calculate
octane. If you look on the pump anywhere in the
states it will often show an
equation used. I think that in Europe (at least
in eastern Europe, I know)
they use a different method to calculate which
gives a higher number... For
instance in Russia you can fill up 107 octane
gas which is equivalent of 92
in the states. Do you know which method they
use in Germany?
Tyson
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Wednesday,
August 07, 2002 8:55 AM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
>In addition - you can also
try removing all the legal emissions stuff
>that the US has on it like a
catalytic converter, pre-cats, and stuff
>like that. I don't know
how nice the German folk are to cars removing
>those things but when
importing a car from Europe to the States it
>requires all sorts of
exhaust add-ons to be legal.
Nononono, this not true at all ! You are not
allowed to change anything on
the car emmission parts. You have to chec
kemissions every secodn year
(depending o nthe age of the car) Also if there
is an aftermarket exhaust
you probably have to measure the noise by the TÜV
government and if it is
too loud you may have to replace it by an original
(Borla for example).
Same to the brakes and suspension parts. Open element
air cleaners like the
FIPK are not allowed too (who cares ?)
>The
fog light in the back is called something else but it is used both
>in
heavy fog so they do not have 100+ car pile-ups on the Autobahn as
>well
as when parking. You park against the street and the light is on
>the rear
driver's corner so that cars will not hit you as you are
>parked. If
you drive on the left-side (England) then this light would
>be on the
Passenger side rear corner.
No, unfortunately this is wrong. The rear fog
light is only allowed in fog
weather conditions ! It is never ever allowed to
have it on on parked
cars... fee is about 40 Euros. They are much brighter
than the other
lights. On the European cars, the most inner red lights are
the fogs ...
and both are light up the same time when activated.... this one
side light
stuff is not regulated at all.
>Don't forget about the
side marker lights on the front quarter panels.
Often not
needed.
>Don't forget about headlight washers.
Only necessary
if the car is equipped with true XENONs (therefore not our
cars). Therefore
not needed at all.
>Look at Roger Gerl's site,
www.rtec.ch, for some of these items
(like
>the headlight washer tank).
As said, not needed
:)
>I'm thinking the oil and fuel system will be fine but make sure
you do
>not use Leaded fuel or else remove the O2 sensors. They
should have
>Unleaded over there but just watch that for a little
bit.
Hahahaha, we have 89,91,93,95 and 98 ROZ here in Europe ...
available
everywere ! Germany is 95 and 98... Hey, we are quite ahead with
the
development than the States ... just an example :in Germany, there is
no
speed limit on the Autobahn if there is no sign :-))))
Roger,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:54:32
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: sticking accelerator on '92 VR4
I had this but luckily never
experienced it. The poor unfortunate soul
was my boss who borrowed the
car the week after a manual boost
controller went in. One zip tie
slipped down the hoses it was on and
the throttle linkage got caught.
Lucky for him the car had AWD and some
good tires. Scary part is he was
on an Interstate exit ramp in 3rd at
WOT. Good part is he was able to
tell me about it.
On the second gen I see there is a slight difference at
the end of the
throttle cable where you can adjust how far in or out the pin
is. There
was some resistance when this opened up and caught some
vacuum hose in
there so that was an easy fix.
Otherwise it might be a
sticking cable that some grease can help. Wait,
are you saying you are
saddened that you are having to accelerate? =)
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: John A. Tabler
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 13:00
Has anyone experienced a sticking
accelerator ('92 VR4)? I did this
morning, and it's a little
unnerving.
I don't think it is the carpet, floor mat, or any trim
piece. I'll have
to wait and have a closer look at the linkage when the
engine is cool.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:54:06
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: propane injection explained ???
Yes the valve does pop at around
300 (325 on my tank) PSI and engine bay
temps get much higher than 150... The
system I have on my car has a line to
re-route vented gas to under the car
chassis preventing any formation of
pockets. I have tried to light the
leaking propane from the valve, no dice.
It will not go up. I don't know what
this rating crap is about. If the
overpressure valve pops off at 300 it makes
no sence that the tank would
hold any less. I had my tank to near 400 PSI and
it held its own... I also
know people (roofers) who use propane torches to
heat up their tanks when
they get cold. I feel that under the hood you get
MUCH better performance
because you get all the benefits of a bottle warmer
without the expense. It
is the safest place for it in my opinion. If I had to
be in a car in a
propane explosion, I would not want it to be anywhere in the
cabin... The
firewall and the hood should also protect the people within,
diving the
force of the blast down and forward. The hose leading up to the
intake is
much shorter. My system also uses a special port made on to the
Y-Pipes that
I manufacture to inject the stuff. Injecting it into existing
ports in the
plenum is plain stupid in my opinion... etc etc
etc.
Unlike just about everyone out there I did not go "OOOOHHH PROPANE!
New cool
thing! Lets make it and sell it!" (To use an example the guy
at
Importpoweronline who started to take orders and was selling his
system
before he even had a working prototype of a like-model retail system.
Not to
mention that his valves he uses and whole system is under-rated for
the
application.) I have been working with the stuff for a long time now,
since
before all the buzz on 3si and I want to have a functional system that
is
better than anything else out there. I have already achieved the latter,
I
just feel that a bit more testing and some track times are needed before
it
goes up for sale.
Tyson
- -----Original
Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday,
August 07, 2002 9:24 AM
To: Tigran Varosyan;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: propane injection explained ???
Not sure what you're
using for propane storage but a DOT certified tank is
NOT safe in the engine
compartment ---- the temps in the engine bay can
exceed 150º which results in
a tank vapor pressure of up to 300 psi which
exceeds the tank safety relief
valve settings. In addition the DOT tanks are
rated at 240 psi and California
State requires a tank rated in excess of
250 psi. The only commercial
tanks that fit those requirements are the ASME
spec tanks which also includes
the check valve that closes if the valves are
damaged. The smallest I've
found are 25# tanks and are 9" in diameter
and 20" long. I have no doubt you
could get a custom tank designed but I'd
think the cost would be very
high.
Jim
Berry
===================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: propane injection
explained ???
> I have made my own propane setup which I planned
to market, but am still
> testing. I think that my system and the best out
there thus far, but I am
> keeping it under wraps until I am 100%
satisfied with it and till I can
get
> a copyright to the design. I
have been using it for about a month with
> awesome results. The system
currently on my car is mounted under the hood
> for many reasons, safety
being one of them. One thing I can say is that I
> did not expect nearly
as much of an improvement form it as I have had. I
did
> some math and
the propane under boost would make up less than 20% of the
> total fuel
going into the engine. Having as the octane ratings were so
> close, 92
and 104 I did not expect a big difference, but reading some of
the
>
knock sensor outputs before and after I am simply stunned. There is
no
more
> knock, period! I do not know the science behind it, but it
works and
that's
> all there is to it.
>
>
Tyson
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:24:39
+0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: American 3000 GT VR4
This is well documented on the web (do a
GOOGLE search on: RON MON
octane). In a nutshell, the Research Octane
Number (RON) and Motor
Octane Number (MON) are derived from two different
methods of
measuring gasoline's resistance to knock, and the RON is
always
numerically higher than the MON. In Europe the RON is used and
in the
States the RON and MON are averaged (that's what the R + M / 2
sticker
means on the pumps). 98 in Europe is about the same as 93 in
the
States.
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.comhttp://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:43:12
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
propane injection explained ???
I applaude your desire to build a well
tested system --- however --- you're
leaving yourself open to legal action if
you recommend the placement of
the tank in the engine compartment. The tanks
are NOT approved for use
in a motor fuel application --- they are rated by
the manufacturer for
outdoor use at temperatures not to exceed 120º F and a
pressure of 240 psi.
I was told the tanks will probably hold twice that
pressure but you'd like at
least a 100% safety margin. ASME tanks are rated
for use as a automotive
fuel tank but are built to much stronger
specs.
BTY --- it may be "rating crap" but if somebody drags your ass
into a courtroom
because a tank blew the lawyers will have a field day. I
don't make this stuff up
I just pass it on. Import Power doesn't recommend a
tank and says it's for
offroad use only --- a wise decision.
The area
to look [ for California anyway ] is California Code of Regulations,
Title
13, section 930 --- they have info on the requirements for tanks. I
haven't
read it but I did take a quick
look.
Jim
Berry
=======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "'fastmax'"
<
fastmax@cox.net>
Cc: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: propane injection
explained ???
> Yes the valve does pop at around 300 (325 on my
tank) PSI and engine bay
> temps get much higher than 150... The system I
have on my car has a line to
> re-route vented gas to under the car
chassis preventing any formation of
> pockets. I have tried to light the
leaking propane from the valve, no dice.
> It will not go up. I don't know
what this rating crap is about. If the
> overpressure valve pops off at
300 it makes no sence that the tank would
> hold any less. I had my tank
to near 400 PSI and it held its own... I also
> know people (roofers) who
use propane torches to heat up their tanks when
> they get cold. I feel
that under the hood you get MUCH better performance
> because you get all
the benefits of a bottle warmer without the expense. It
> is the safest
place for it in my opinion. If I had to be in a car in a
> propane
explosion, I would not want it to be anywhere in the cabin... The
>
firewall and the hood should also protect the people within, diving the
>
force of the blast down and forward. The hose leading up to the intake
is
> much shorter. My system also uses a special port made on to the
Y-Pipes that
> I manufacture to inject the stuff. Injecting it into
existing ports in the
> plenum is plain stupid in my opinion... etc etc
etc.
>
> Unlike just about everyone out there I did not go "OOOOHHH
PROPANE! New cool
> thing! Lets make it and sell it!" (To use an example
the guy at
> Importpoweronline who started to take orders and was selling
his system
> before he even had a working prototype of a like-model retail
system. Not to
> mention that his valves he uses and whole system is
under-rated for the
> application.) I have been working with the stuff for
a long time now, since
> before all the buzz on 3si and I want to have a
functional system that is
> better than anything else out there. I have
already achieved the latter, I
> just feel that a bit more testing and
some track times are needed before it
> goes up for sale.
>
>
Tyson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:24
AM
> To: Tigran Varosyan;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: propane injection explained ???
>
>
> Not
sure what you're using for propane storage but a DOT certified tank is
>
NOT safe in the engine compartment ---- the temps in the engine bay can
>
exceed 150º which results in a tank vapor pressure of up to 300 psi
which
> exceeds the tank safety relief valve settings. In addition the DOT
tanks are
> rated at 240 psi and California State requires a tank
rated in excess of
> 250 psi. The only commercial tanks that fit those
requirements are the ASME
> spec tanks which also includes the check valve
that closes if the valves are
> damaged. The smallest I've found are 25#
tanks and are 9" in diameter
> and 20" long. I have no doubt you could get
a custom tank designed but I'd
> think the cost would be very
high.
>
> Jim
Berry
> ===================================================
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
> To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:15 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: propane
injection explained ???
>
>
> > I have made my own propane
setup which I planned to market, but am still
> > testing. I think that
my system and the best out there thus far, but I am
> > keeping it
under wraps until I am 100% satisfied with it and till I can
> get
>
> a copyright to the design. I have been using it for about a month
with
> > awesome results. The system currently on my car is mounted
under the hood
> > for many reasons, safety being one of them. One
thing I can say is that I
> > did not expect nearly as much of an
improvement form it as I have had. I
> did
> > some math and the
propane under boost would make up less than 20% of the
> > total fuel
going into the engine. Having as the octane ratings were so
> > close,
92 and 104 I did not expect a big difference, but reading some of
>
the
> > knock sensor outputs before and after I am simply stunned.
There is no
> more
> > knock, period! I do not know the science
behind it, but it works and
> that's
> > all there is to
it.
> >
> >
Tyson
>
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:29:12
-0500
From: "Dave and Becky Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Aluminum Flywheel Opinions?
Is there a consensus on the value of
the Fidenza flywheel upgrade? While
I'm pestering people, what is the
best recommendation for an aftermarket
clutch. I'm not looking for the
baddest drag racing clutch as the car is
pretty much limited to open track
events and an occasional trip to work.
Thanks in
advance,
DaveT/92TT/13g/RC550/etc.
-
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long
Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today!
www.netzerolongdistance.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:00:13
-0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
pedenkoa@msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Aluminum Flywheel Opinions?
I got an RPS stage 2 when I replaced mine.
The car (95 vr4) is my daily
driver and this clutch works just fine. It's a
little more sensitive
than stock, but I got used to it after a few days. Plus
it's designed to
hold I think up to 600hp
Alex.
'95 VR4
RPS
Stage 2, KN Cone intake, Blitz SBC-iD @ 14.8
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Dave and Becky Trent
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:29 PM
To: Team3s
Subject: Team3S: Aluminum
Flywheel Opinions?
Is there a consensus on the value of the Fidenza
flywheel upgrade?
While
I'm pestering people, what is the best
recommendation for an aftermarket
clutch. I'm not looking for the baddest
drag racing clutch as the car is
pretty much limited to open track events and
an occasional trip to work.
Thanks in
advance,
DaveT/92TT/13g/RC550/etc.
-
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long
Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today!
www.netzerolongdistance.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:02:49
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: sticking accelerator on '92 VR4
I had my accelerator stick
after I replaced my spark plugs the first time.
It turned out that I put the
throttle body gasket in incorrectly. On the
gasket I had, there was a
tab that stuck out. I don't know why, but it just
does. This tab
was touching the throttle linkage. I found the problem and
just put the
gasket back in correctly.
If you havn't taken your throttle body off of
the intake manifold lately,
then this is probably not the
cause.
Doug
92 Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:10:38
-0700
From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Aluminum Flywheel Opinions and clutches?
I just had a RPS 6
puck sprung street clutch rated at 510 ft/lbs installed
in my car. I
found that the pedal was easier than stock to press in. The
cluch grabs
significantly more than the stock clutch. It took me a few days
to get
used to it. I stalled out quite a few times. Now that I am used
to
it, I like it. I know when I apply power and let out the clutch that
the
power will go to the wheels and not smoke the clutch.
Doug
92
Stealth RT TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:34:58
-0600
From: "Justin Sturgeon" <
justinstur@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: car bogs on launch
i think i have most of my problems fixed but i
am still having a little bit
of a problem. i just replaced my ecu and
ignition coil pack. Plugs (NGK),
wires, water pump, timiing belt etc
are all new. Like i said, most of the
previous problems are fixed and
the car runs great. But when i launch the
car, even for a medium power
launch, the car bogs and seems to take about a
second for the engine to wind
up. when this happens i can hear the exhaust
kind of sputter. it
doesn't do it if i just pull up to a stop sign and
immediatly launch, but if
i sit a light for a moment it will bog. i notice
that the oil pressure
will drop if the car idles for a few moments and i
know this is somewhat
normal.
also, the car does not hesitate when i first start it and drive
away.
again, the oil is not warmed up so the pressure is higher
then. i don't
know if this is related to oil pressure or not, but i
have noticed
this pattern.
i have checked the crank angle sensor, there
are not ecu codes, and i also
replaced the fuel filter. I have a 91
stealth r/t na w/ k&n fipk.
has anyone else had this problem or does
anyone have any suggestions.
thanks in advance for the help.
justin
sturgeon
_________________________________________________________________
Send
and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:06:54
EDT
From:
Keisuke6G72@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Hey team, I am here for some good
advice as it is always given. I now have
in my possession the steering
knuckles, calipers, rotors and pads from a 95'
VR-5 and will be attempting
to install this weekend.
My concern is for how much torque I want
to put on all the bolts in order for
everything to flow smooth? If you
guys have this info I would be greatly
appreciative! I need to know
how much torque I am to put on the two bolts
that hold the caliper in place
on the knuckle, not to mention all the bolts
that attach the steering
knuckle. Plus while I am asking what is the proper
torque to put on
all the lugnuts???
Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in
advance!
Scott
1991 3000GT SL
DN Performance Intake with K&N FIPK
UR Crank Pulley
3SX Downpipe
Intrax Springs
Cusco Rear Shock Tower
brace
(Looking for bolts to install !!!!) 3SX Rear Sway bar
18' VR-4
Wheels
Second Gen Brake Upgrade
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:06:54
EDT
From:
Keisuke6G72@aol.comSubject: Team3S:
95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Hey team, I am here for some good
advice as it is always given. I now have
in my possession the steering
knuckles, calipers, rotors and pads from a 95'
VR-5 and will be attempting
to install this weekend.
My concern is for how much torque I want
to put on all the bolts in order for
everything to flow smooth? If you
guys have this info I would be greatly
appreciative! I need to know
how much torque I am to put on the two bolts
that hold the caliper in place
on the knuckle, not to mention all the bolts
that attach the steering
knuckle. Plus while I am asking what is the proper
torque to put on
all the lugnuts???
Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in
advance!
Scott
1991 3000GT SL
DN Performance Intake with K&N FIPK
UR Crank Pulley
3SX Downpipe
Intrax Springs
Cusco Rear Shock Tower
brace
(Looking for bolts to install !!!!) 3SX Rear Sway bar
18' VR-4
Wheels
Second Gen Brake Upgrade
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:34:35
-0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Hub Cabs
Hi Everyone: I have a 92 VR4 with stock 17" wheels.
Last
light two of the hub caps got stolen. XYZ#$% but
I am not going to steal from
someone back. I am asking
if anyone got the same car but already upgraded
to
custom wheels so they can sell me their old hub cabs.
It looks real bad
without the caps. Thanks!
Anthony
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:03:37
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Scott -- Since I sold you my
stock front calipers I'll feel bad if I
don't "complete" the
transaction. I'll send you the PDF pages from the
manual since yours is
still in transit and you won't have that before
the weekend. These
pages have all the torque on everything in the
exploded view so you should be
good to go.
Lugnuts are a good 95 ft*lbs and discussion varies
here. I like to take
the longer and more "picky" method that Jeff
Lucius describes. You put
the wheel on the car and hand-tighten the
lugnuts on. Then lower the
car until some pressure is on the wheel
(enough to prevent it from
turning) and then tighten to about 75
ft*lbs. Lower the car a little
more and apply 85 ft*lbs. Then
lower all the way and torque to 95
ft*lbs. I've personally found that
this seems to make a better flatness
from the hat to the wheel instead of
tightening the first one all the
way to 95 (like anyone does with air tools
in a brake shop) then another
lugnut then another. Sure it takes longer
but it really spreads out the
force and "seating" of everything.
AND
DON'T FORGET ANTI-SEIZE ON THE WHEEL STUD THREADS. Sorry to yell -
you
saw some of the horror pictures of what happens when studs break or
rotors
are "welded" (rusted) to the hub. A little goes a long way so
don't
goop it on like grease but paint the exposed wheel stud threads
then put on
the wheel then the lugnuts. I also dab a little where the
wheel mates
the hat but not real much - just to keep all surfaces
painted. Also,
where the rotor meets the hat if you feel like doing
everything. Oh,
and the bolts holding the caliper into the knuckle.
Those are important to
coat.
Let me know if you have anything else and we'll show the list when
you
are finished (hopefully). I'm glad to see you are putting them to
use
though.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 minus the stock front calipers
which Scott has now
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Keisuke6G72@aol.comSent: Wednesday,
August 07, 2002 21:07
Hey team, I am here for some good advice as it is
always given. I now
have
in my possession the steering knuckles,
calipers, rotors and pads from a
95'
VR-5 and will be attempting to
install this weekend.
My concern is for how much torque I want to
put on all the bolts in
order for
everything to flow smooth? If you
guys have this info I would be
greatly
appreciative! I need to know
how much torque I am to put on the two
bolts
that hold the caliper in
place on the knuckle, not to mention all the
bolts
that attach the
steering knuckle. Plus while I am asking what is the
proper
torque
to put on all the lugnuts???
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:05:47
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
As far as the 3SX rear
anti-sway bar installation I had a quick post but
the dealer did mine and
Rich Merritt had a better post about his local
shop installing it. The
bolts for mine were included from 3SX so if
these are the bolts you are
missing then contact them. I thought Steve
really had those anti-sway
bars shipped with all hardware.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
Keisuke6G72@aol.comSent: Wednesday,
August 07, 2002 21:07
(Looking for bolts to install !!!!) 3SX Rear Sway
bar
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:36:37
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Scott,
1. The bolts that
go through the knuckle and into the caliper are 65
ft*lbs (90 N*m).
2.
The brake line hose into the caliper looks to be 11 ft*lbs (15 N*m).
I think
I recall that I put SpeedBleeders on those calipers before I
sold them.
Be careful on those as you don't want to strip them or break
them off inside
the caliper.
3. Here is a 210 kb PDF file (3 pages) showing the required
torque on
all front brake components:
www.team3s.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/95VR-4_front_brake.pdf4.
Let us know when you have pictures of this as it will look nice and
holler if
you need more help.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 without stock front brakes
and without track tires and wheels
- - Scott seems to be taking away all of
my goodies - use them well at the
AutoX, bud
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
Keisuke6G72@aol.comSent: Wednesday,
August 07, 2002 21:07
Hey team, I am here for some good advice as it is
always given. I now
have
in my possession the steering knuckles,
calipers, rotors and pads from a
95'
VR-5 and will be attempting to
install this weekend.
My concern is for how much torque I want to
put on all the bolts in
order for
everything to flow smooth? If you
guys have this info I would be
greatly
appreciative! I need to know
how much torque I am to put on the two
bolts
that hold the caliper in
place on the knuckle, not to mention all the
bolts
that attach the
steering knuckle. Plus while I am asking what is the
proper
torque
to put on all the lugnuts???
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:44:00
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Note: These pages are from the
1992-1996 VR-4 section. I'm assuming you
don't need to worry about the
1991 for anything since you bought second
gen VR-4 knuckles, rotors, pads,
and calipers but in case anyone else
was wondering why your '91 VR-4 might be
different in this area.
- --Flash!
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002
22:37
3. Here is a 210 kb PDF file (3 pages) showing the required torque
on
all front brake components:
www.team3s.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/95VR-4_front_brake.pdf***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:09:28
-0600
From: "Donald Ashby III" <
dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Part Number Help Please
Pressurized the intake today, found a
large leak and now I am in need of a
gasket or seal of some sort.
The leak
is where the rear turbo mates to a pre-intercooler hardpipe. I am
guessing
that there is a gasket that seals between the turbo and the pipe,
if anyone
knows the PIN for that part, please e-mail it to me, because I am
currently
subscribed to the digest version. Thank you for your help. (Car is
a 93 VR-4
by the way)
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
Member
#4909
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:13:04
-0400
From: "Chris McFarland" <
cm1994@qx.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Part
Number Help Please
It sounds like you are referring to the O-ring in the
compressor housing.
If so, it is part number MD090788. CAPS also lists
a size of 36.9 (mm. I
assume).
Chris McFarland
93 Stealth R/T
TT
The leak is where the rear turbo mates to a pre-intercooler hardpipe.
I am
guessing that there is a gasket that seals between the turbo and the
pipe,
if anyone knows the PIN for that part, please e-mail it to me, because
I am
currently subscribed to the digest version. Thank you for your help.
(Car is
a 93 VR-4 by the way)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 22:09:02
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hub Cabs
At 06:34 PM 8/7/02 -0700, Anthony Tse
wrote:
>Hi Everyone: I have a 92 VR4 with stock 17" wheels.
>Last
light two of the hub caps got stolen. XYZ#$% but
>I am not going to steal
from someone back.
This reminds me of when I was in school. One of
the dorm denizens had a TR3. There were, apparently, a dozen TR3s on campus, but
only 11 gas caps. The gas caps were big, chrome, screw-on devices that perched
up on the back deck.
Every few weeks, his gas cap would get stolen and
we had to make the rounds, looking for another TR3 with a gas cap, so we could
steal one.
I think somebody finally purchased a locking gas cap, making
an even 12 gas caps, so the thefts stopped.
Rich/slow old poop
*sigh*
nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 22:12:39
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
>I like to take the
longer and more "picky" method that Jeff Lucius describes. You
put
the wheel on the car and hand-tighten the lugnuts on. Then
lower the
>car until some pressure is on the wheel (enough to prevent it
from
>turning) and then tighten to about 75 ft*lbs. Lower the car a
little
>more and apply 85 ft*lbs. Then lower all the way and torque
to 95
>ft*lbs. I've personally found that this seems to make a
better flatness
>from the hat to the wheel instead of tightening the first
one all the
>way to 95 (like anyone does with air tools in a brake shop)
then another
>lugnut then another. Sure it takes longer but it
really spreads out the
>force and "seating" of everything.
Or you
can take a battery powered impact wrench and go scree, scree, scree, scree,
scree, and let the car down. Takes all of 30 seconds. Then torque it. Works just
as well, and takes a lot less time.
Rich/slow old
poop
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:21:43
-0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Hub Cabs
I am sorry. I mean the small little center caps.
- --- Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com> wrote:
> I
didn't think any 3/S car had hub caps. Do you
> have pictures of
them?
> The Stealth kind of has center covers and the 3000GT
> has
real small
> center caps.
>
> On this page then "3/S
Features" on the left then
> "Wheels" is a link to
> all the 3/S
wheel types.
>
>
http://www.mn3s.org>
>
--Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Anthony Tse
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 21:35
>
> Hi Everyone: I have a 92 VR4 with stock 17" wheels.
> Last light
two of the hub caps got stolen. XYZ#$%
> but
> I am not going to
steal from someone back. I am
> asking
> if anyone got the same car
but already upgraded to
> custom wheels so they can sell me their old
hub
> cabs.
> It looks real bad without the caps. Thanks!
>
__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:25:28
-0700
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: propane injection explained ???
Well, off-road or on if the thing
blows and hurts someone there will be
bacon to fry. I plan to have a waiver
written up by my lawyer friend which
will have to be signed. You can mount
the thing anywhere you want, I chose
to mount mine under the hood. My system
will work in the passenger
compartment or in the trunk just as good as any
out there. The company that
this will be sold under is also an unprofitable
LLC so personally nobody can
touch me. They can claim the company assets
which will be consisting of
tools and equipment costing less than $2000. I do
not plan to have anyone
hurt by this project and am 100% sure that if
anything will ever happen it
will be the fault of the user/installer. I will
look into the tanks you were
talking about, but from what I have seen so far,
everyone uses standard BBQ
tanks. I got me some tiny 1Gal tanks which last
about 3 tanks of gas. I
think that due to smaller size they will be much
stronger than the bigger
ones (like an egg).
Tyson
-
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:43 AM
To: Tigran Varosyan
Cc:
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: propane injection explained ???
I applaude your desire to
build a well tested system --- however --- you're
leaving yourself open to
legal action if you recommend the placement of
the tank in the engine
compartment. The tanks are NOT approved for use
in a motor fuel application
--- they are rated by the manufacturer for
outdoor use at temperatures not to
exceed 120º F and a pressure of 240 psi.
I was told the tanks will probably
hold twice that pressure but you'd like
at
least a 100% safety margin.
ASME tanks are rated for use as a automotive
fuel tank but are built to much
stronger specs.
BTY --- it may be "rating crap" but if somebody drags
your ass into a
courtroom
because a tank blew the lawyers will have a
field day. I don't make this
stuff up
I just pass it on. Import Power
doesn't recommend a tank and says it's for
offroad use only --- a wise
decision.
The area to look [ for California anyway ] is California Code
of
Regulations,
Title 13, section 930 --- they have info on the
requirements for tanks. I
haven't
read it but I did take a quick
look.
Jim
Berry
=======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "'fastmax'"
<
fastmax@cox.net>
Cc: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: propane injection
explained ???
> Yes the valve does pop at around 300 (325 on my
tank) PSI and engine bay
> temps get much higher than 150... The system I
have on my car has a line
to
> re-route vented gas to under the car
chassis preventing any formation of
> pockets. I have tried to light the
leaking propane from the valve, no
dice.
> It will not go up. I don't
know what this rating crap is about. If the
> overpressure valve pops off
at 300 it makes no sence that the tank would
> hold any less. I had my
tank to near 400 PSI and it held its own... I also
> know people (roofers)
who use propane torches to heat up their tanks when
> they get cold. I
feel that under the hood you get MUCH better performance
> because you get
all the benefits of a bottle warmer without the expense.
It
> is the
safest place for it in my opinion. If I had to be in a car in a
> propane
explosion, I would not want it to be anywhere in the cabin... The
>
firewall and the hood should also protect the people within, diving the
>
force of the blast down and forward. The hose leading up to the intake
is
> much shorter. My system also uses a special port made on to the
Y-Pipes
that
> I manufacture to inject the stuff. Injecting it into
existing ports in the
> plenum is plain stupid in my opinion... etc etc
etc.
>
> Unlike just about everyone out there I did not go "OOOOHHH
PROPANE! New
cool
> thing! Lets make it and sell it!" (To use an
example the guy at
> Importpoweronline who started to take orders and was
selling his system
> before he even had a working prototype of a
like-model retail system. Not
to
> mention that his valves he uses and
whole system is under-rated for the
> application.) I have been working
with the stuff for a long time now,
since
> before all the buzz on 3si
and I want to have a functional system that is
> better than anything else
out there. I have already achieved the latter, I
> just feel that a bit
more testing and some track times are needed before
it
> goes up for
sale.
>
> Tyson
>
>
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
> Sent:
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:24 AM
> To: Tigran Varosyan;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: propane injection explained ???
>
>
> Not
sure what you're using for propane storage but a DOT certified tank is
>
NOT safe in the engine compartment ---- the temps in the engine bay can
>
exceed 150º which results in a tank vapor pressure of up to 300 psi
which
> exceeds the tank safety relief valve settings. In addition the DOT
tanks
are
> rated at 240 psi and California State requires a tank
rated in excess of
> 250 psi. The only commercial tanks that fit those
requirements are the
ASME
> spec tanks which also includes the check
valve that closes if the valves
are
> damaged. The smallest I've found
are 25# tanks and are 9" in diameter
> and 20" long. I have no doubt you
could get a custom tank designed but I'd
> think the cost would be very
high.
>
> Jim
Berry
> ===================================================
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Tigran Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
> To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:15 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: propane
injection explained ???
>
>
> > I have made my own propane
setup which I planned to market, but am still
> > testing. I think that
my system and the best out there thus far, but I
am
> > keeping it
under wraps until I am 100% satisfied with it and till I can
> get
>
> a copyright to the design. I have been using it for about a month
with
> > awesome results. The system currently on my car is mounted
under the
hood
> > for many reasons, safety being one of them. One
thing I can say is that
I
> > did not expect nearly as much of an
improvement form it as I have had. I
> did
> > some math and the
propane under boost would make up less than 20% of the
> > total fuel
going into the engine. Having as the octane ratings were so
> > close,
92 and 104 I did not expect a big difference, but reading some of
>
the
> > knock sensor outputs before and after I am simply stunned.
There is no
> more
> > knock, period! I do not know the science
behind it, but it works and
> that's
> > all there is to
it.
> >
> >
Tyson
>
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:49:43
-0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
> AND DON'T FORGET
ANTI-SEIZE ON THE WHEEL
> STUD THREADS. Sorry to yell - you saw some
of the
> horror pictures of what happens when studs break or
>
rotors are "welded" (rusted) to the hub.
Actually a good number of folks
believe that using lubricants or anti-seize
on wheel studs is a bad idea
since the torque specs for the lugs are meant
for dry threads. I'm not
saying its a problem, but gooping anti-seize on
studs/bolts that don't really
need it might not be the best plan in all
cases and could actually cause the
sorts of failures (broken studs) you are
trying to prevent.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t22138.html(The
poll results are interesting on that link, although far
from
scientific). Don't yell at me, just do your own research and come
to your
own conclusions about it either way.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 02:54:43
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Well after heating up my rotors
to a toasty 1,100 degrees F and caliper
to 700 degrees F and wheel spokes to
about 350 degrees F I don't know
what the wheel studs and lugnuts are getting
heated to. I would rather
be off a few ft*lbs on torque from dry thread
to lubricated thread
rather than snap a wheel stud at a track 15 hours away
from home.
There is scientific or poll data and then there is data from
someone who
doesn't have enough money to fix a broken wheel stud or has seen
others
snap items at distant locations only to think to himself, "I'm
never
going to let that happen to me." It is interesting data but are
you
saying you would trust your life on a race track when only torquing
your
lugnuts to between 38.0 and 47.5 ft*lbs? I'm not.
Can
anyone give theory as to what the breaking ft*lb number is to get a
lugnut
loose? You put it on with 95 ft*lbs but does it take the same 95
ft*lbs
to break it free? My torque wrench has a ratchet head so I can
switch
from tighten to loosen which boggles me because I thought torque
wrenches
were not supposed to be used to break something loose (Sears
Craftsman 1/2"
drive torque wrench). I can put the lugnuts on and drive
for a month
and break them free and see what the torque is but I doubt
it will climb to
their value of 70% higher or 161.5 ft*lbs.
Can Cody comment on this from
Discount Tire?
- --Flash!
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Matt Jannusch
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 01:50
Actually a good
number of folks believe that using lubricants or
anti-seize on wheel studs is
a bad idea since the torque specs for the
lugs are meant for dry
threads. I'm not saying its a problem, but
gooping anti-seize on
studs/bolts that don't really need it might not be
the best plan in all cases
and could actually cause the sorts of
failures (broken studs) you are trying
to prevent.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t22138.html(The
poll results are interesting on that link, although far
from
scientific). Don't yell at me, just do your own research and come
to
your own conclusions about it either way.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 03:14:15
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
Oops. Good point,
Dave. Thanks.
- -----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday,
August 08, 2002 03:11
To:
dschilberg@pobox.com+> My
torque wrench has a ratchet head so I
+> can switch from tighten to
loosen which boggles me because I thought
+> torque wrenches were not
supposed to be used to break something loose
+> (Sears Craftsman 1/2"
drive torque wrench).
how about left handed threads?
:)
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 07:42:53
-0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
95' VR-4 Brake install on a 91 SL
I guess the issue is how the antisieze
acts --- ARP [ the headbolt folks ]
recommend that the threads be oiled and
torqued --- ideally to a stretch
limit but that's not always practical. They
also sell a lubricant that reduces
friction to the point that that it affects
torque values so it can only be used
if you measure stretch. So the question
is, does antisieze act like oil or
like the super lube they sell --- A phone
call to ARP may provide an
answer.
Jim
Berry
===================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
>
> AND DON'T FORGET ANTI-SEIZE ON THE WHEEL
> > STUD THREADS.
Sorry to yell - you saw some of the
> > horror pictures of what happens
when studs break or
> > rotors are "welded" (rusted) to the
hub.
>
> Actually a good number of folks believe that using
lubricants or anti-seize
> on wheel studs is a bad idea since the torque
specs for the lugs are meant
> for dry threads. I'm not saying its a
problem, but gooping anti-seize on
> studs/bolts that don't really need it
might not be the best plan in all
> cases and could actually cause the
sorts of failures (broken studs) you are
> trying to prevent.
>
>
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t22138.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#919
***************************************