Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth      Friday, May 3 2002      Volume 01 : Number 830




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Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:04:46 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Paint/clear coat

For the 1991-1993 models only, the information you need is in the 1991 Stealth
Import Service Manual - Body Repair. A digital version (PDF file) is available
on the Manuals on CD by member Vinny Singh. The hardcopy version is available
for $12 from 800-890-4038 (M-F 8a-8p EST). Chapter 6 says only the pearl-tone
colors have a clear coat. 1991 pearl-tone colors include what the manual
calls "Galaxy White" (color code W75) and "Kutani Red" (color code R25). I
don't know if the 1992 VR4 model included a green pearl tone or not. But it
should be obvious by looking at the paint in sunlight if it has the mica
particles in it that distinquish the pearl tone paints.

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Labonte" <tnl7455@yahoo.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: Team3S: Paint/clear coat

<snip> One thing I can't seem to figure out is if it has a clear
coat or not.  Any idea how I can find this out? <snip>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:22:42 -0400
From: "Mihai Raicu" <mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Propane Injection (was alternative fuels)

Matt,

How about doing a dual-fuel conversion (switching between propane and
gasoline at the flip of a button).  For this, we will need to pull out
the factory gas tank and replace it with a 10 gallon custom made fuel
cell, as well as a 10 gal custom made propane tank.

The above setup will allow higher boost/HP when running on 100% propane,
and we will have no worries that we will run out of gas because we can
fill up anywhere.

Also, no worries about driving around with a bomb either, because
everything will be where the original fuel tank used to be.

- -MIHAI-

Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:20:20 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane Injection (was alternative fuels)

>why not use 100% propane?

>...because most of us use our cars as daily drivers as well.  Its a
little >tougher to find a gas station that will fill up a pure-propane
vehicle.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:22:20 EDT
From: M3000GTSL84@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ABS system removal

GUys-

ABS is intended to Prevent lockup, which is generally bad in braking. If you
look in back of Car and Driver you will se that every car that has ABS stops
in a shorter distance.  Most american drivers CANT drive for there lives, but
i doubt that any of us on the list are included. I personally have only
needed ABS perhaps 2 or 3 times in 2 years with the car, but its there if u
need it to stop. The computer pumps the brakes far faster then any human
could as it is. Now the $$ needed to fix ABS is alot, but thats not the point
im trying to make. If its still working then id leave it.

Think of it this way. A VR-4 has AWD. Unless your in the rain or launching
the car, then its is not needed.  But its there if u need it, whenever that
may be-same with ABS

mike

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:29:59 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Propane Injection (was alternative fuels)

> How about doing a dual-fuel conversion (switching between propane and
> gasoline at the flip of a button).  For this, we will need to pull out
> the factory gas tank and replace it with a 10 gallon custom made fuel
> cell, as well as a 10 gal custom made propane tank.

You could do anything you want, but running 100% propane all the time might
be more of a project than using it as a high-boost injection setup.  Running
it as the primary fuel might require some sort of remapping to the ecu,
maybe different types of fuel injectors (or larger/smaller), different fuel
feed setup, etc.  Does propane affect O2 sensor readings at all, or poison
them like leaded fuel does?  Do you inject it as a liquid or a gas?  I don't
have answers to any of those questions, but that's at least a start of some
things you'd want answered.

I'm a fan of simplicity rather than complexity.  For me, the full-propane
setup or trying to switch from one fuel to another is more complex with more
things to go wrong.  Not something I'm at all interested in doing to my car,
so I'm going to step away from the propane discussion.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:40:14 -0400
From: "Mihai Raicu" <mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Propane fill-up stations

Everyone,

Here is where you can get a list of propane fill-up stations in your
area:

http://afdcmap.nrel.gov/locator/LocatePane.asp

 I called 2 places and got $2.43/gal and $3.00/gal.  Ouch!  Propane is
supposed to be cheaper than regular gasoline though.  Maybe they're
gouging, so I'm sure a quick call to the State Attorney General's office
may settle that issue, if it's an issue.

Big fleets are saving money by running their cars on propane, so I don't
see why we can't too.  They are not doing it for the environment for
sure.

[Mihai Raicu]

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:12:13 -0500
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Propane Injection (was alternative fuels)

Any questions on the propane conversion should be answered shortly - my
neighbor and I will be putting together and posting a FAQ on my website
regarding this topic.  I would direct these type of questions to his website
http://www.fireemup.com as it is what they do on a day to day basis.

Since web-work is my world, I am helping them expand the content to include
these type of answers on their site.

Dave 95VR4
http://www.daveblack.net

How about doing a dual-fuel conversion (switching between propane and
gasoline at the flip of a button).  For this, we will need to pull out
the factory gas tank and replace it with a 10 gallon custom made fuel
cell, as well as a 10 gal custom made propane tank.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:42:29 -0700
From: John Sheehan <Johns@KYSO.com>
Subject: Team3S: Help ! AC Problem

I need help or ideas with a AC problem on my 93 VR-4. Freon is good,
checked all otheritems as listed but it still blows standard air. So I
took it to an AC shop and they told me it was the AC control module and
would cost $1200.00 to replace. I don't think so !!!!!! Does this sound
true?
What else can I check ? Where is the control module located ? Could it
be in the climate control temp sensorinstead of the control module?
I am at a loss until I get a manual ( same problems as others, on order
from dealer and now they say they can't get it anymore !) Tried all
sources for manual on Web site but no good.
I will order the CD for now.
                           Any help or ideas ??????????
                       Thank you !  John Sheehan
                                    93 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:24:14 -0400
From: "Rodriguez, Elpidio   x35617d1" <x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject: Team3S: iridium plug gapping

I just got my iridium plugs today. I won't be installing them 'till i get
back to my car in texas and only after i take it  for this year's inpection
(don't want to do all these mods and then fail it). The electrode on these
things looks is so small it looks like it would probably break if i got a
gapping tool anywhere near it. Is there any special way to gap these plugs
or is the electrode stronger than it looks and will survive a standard
gapper? Also, the gapping chart that came with them suggested .044-.042 for
mild mods. They are the Denso type(yes, i know some of you said these don't
perform well but I had already ordered them, I'll give them a try and see
what happens). I've read some of you gap these things to .034. Which should
I do? The mods the car will have by the time I install thes will be K&N
FIPK, boost controller set to about 14-14.5 psi, vitek wires, borla
cat-back, atr downpipe,fidanza aluminum flywheel and ACT Modified street
disc clutch. thanks

- -ROD

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:35:58 -0700
From: Yoss <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: iridium plug gapping

On Thu, May 02, 2002, Rodriguez, Elpidio <x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil> wrote:
[snip]
> I've read some of you gap these things to .034. Which should
> I do? The mods the car will have by the time I install thes will be K&N
> FIPK, boost controller set to about 14-14.5 psi, vitek wires, borla
> cat-back, atr downpipe,fidanza aluminum flywheel and ACT Modified street
> disc clutch. thanks

If you really want to gap the plugs to 0.032", then you are better off
returning your IK20 (they are supposed to be pre-gapped to 0.044") and
ordering the IK22 (one range cooler and pre-gapped to 0.032")

> -ROD

- --
*******************************************************************************
Every Klingon hopes to die in the line of duty.
    -- Worf, "The Bonding", stardate 43198.7
*******************************************************************************

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:15:51 -0600
From: "Donald Ashby" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Quick little question

sorry to take up the bandwidth, but is there a 1000q type of site for 3S?
Looking for some massive faq site that will answer my every question!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 04:56:42 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

I have a '91 R/T tt with a 25k mile engine, 15G's, 550's, Walbro pump,
VPC/SAFC, etc.

I looked on my cd manual for the instructions to change the knock sensor,
since I'm hoping it might have been torqued down incorrectly when I had my
heads replaced (recently) or the engine installed, and saw this under the
knock-sensor section:

"When knocking occurs while driving under high-load conditions, the
following problems are suspected in addition to the detonation sensor
itself.
(1) Inappropriate ignition plug heat range
(2) Inappropriate gasoline
(3) Incorrectly adjusted reference ignition timing"

I've ruled out (2) because this happens regardless of where I get my 93
octane at, and (3) because I had it checked.

How far off does the heat range have to be to cause knock?  Is this only if
you go "hotter"?  I currently have Denso Iridiums IK22's, which are 1 heat
range colder than stock, and am getting (on the pocketlogger) massive (20+)
knock at anything over 9 psi unless I run super rich (1.0v +) past 5500 rpm,
and was thinking maybe this could be the problem?  Or maybe this in addition
to the sometimes problematic iridium plugs with our cars.

Do you all think I should replace just the plugs with some coppers (BCPR6ES
?) before I worry about replacing the knock sensor, or should I try to do
both at once (I've never replaced plugs before myself)?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:37:51 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

The 1 range colder Iridiums do normally help but more and more I hear that
even those are causing problems.

Basically the Iridiums are only beneficial if used with an amplifier. But
even then it seems that our engines do not like them after a while.

Unfortunately the ultra-high rich condition also causes knock in our cars.
I saw the same in my logs and for sure the sensor isn't the problem (unless
it shows no knock when you bang on the engine at idle).

The solution is using either coppers but change them more often or stock
NGKs gapped to 0.032. When using an Accel Coil pack or the GM coils from
Accel the gap can stay stock. Please note that these coils must be custom
installed and need other plug wires too.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 04:56 03.05.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
>I have a '91 R/T tt with a 25k mile engine, 15G's, 550's, Walbro pump,
>VPC/SAFC, etc.
>
>I looked on my cd manual for the instructions to change the knock sensor,
>since I'm hoping it might have been torqued down incorrectly when I had my
>heads replaced (recently) or the engine installed, and saw this under the
>knock-sensor section:
>
>"When knocking occurs while driving under high-load conditions, the
>following problems are suspected in addition to the detonation sensor
>itself.
>(1) Inappropriate ignition plug heat range
>(2) Inappropriate gasoline
>(3) Incorrectly adjusted reference ignition timing"
>
>I've ruled out (2) because this happens regardless of where I get my 93
>octane at, and (3) because I had it checked.
>
>How far off does the heat range have to be to cause knock?  Is this only if
>you go "hotter"?  I currently have Denso Iridiums IK22's, which are 1 heat
>range colder than stock, and am getting (on the pocketlogger) massive (20+)
>knock at anything over 9 psi unless I run super rich (1.0v +) past 5500 rpm,
>and was thinking maybe this could be the problem?  Or maybe this in addition
>to the sometimes problematic iridium plugs with our cars.
>
>Do you all think I should replace just the plugs with some coppers (BCPR6ES
>?) before I worry about replacing the knock sensor, or should I try to do
>both at once (I've never replaced plugs before myself)?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 04:32:00 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Quick little question (about FAQ)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Ashby" <dashbyiii@earthlink.net>
> sorry to take up the bandwidth, but is there a 1000q type of site for 3S?
Looking for some massive faq site that will answer my every question!
- ------------------------------------>

We'd love someone to put one together for Team3S - are you volunteering?
:-)  Just about every question has already been answered on our list (to
some extent, at least).  Obviously, new questions come up every day.  All
you have to do to dig out answers is to use our Search Page.  We have well
over 100 pages in our FAQ section, but they usually cover topics in some
detail... There are very few "one-line" answers - there is more than one
"favorite tire" or "favorite oil" opinion from our members.  If you learn
how to use the search filters, you'll be able to limit your results to the
type of answers you're looking for.  Over 1200 pages of our archives are
referenced by the Search Engine.  If you estimate an average of 10 questions
per page, it's easy to see that there are 10,000+ answers just on our site.
That's a lot of FAQ!  www.Team3S.com/Search.htm

Many of the answers which have been contributed on the Team3S list also
contain links to some of the excellent member sites- here are one-line
synopses of 3 of the best, all of whom have added much to our site:

- --Roger Gerl has put together an highly technical site for performance
tuning, with dyno results, turbo basics, comparisons, etc., at  www.rtec.ch
- --Dave Black has a large site with over 100 FAQ, with basic answers.  A
number of additional topics are covered in quite some detail, at
www.daveblack.net
- --Jeff Lucius has been an 'unofficial librarian' of the 3S world, gathering
an huge amount of information from other sites and putting it in one place,
at: www.stealth316.com.

We're putting together a FAQ page listing dozens of our members' sites,
which will be up shortly.  In the meantime, if you read everything on the
Team3S site and the 3 sites above, you'll be an expert.  You and your car
will also be a couple of years older.  :-)

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 07:45:40 -0400
From: "Bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

so is the manual only talking about hotter heat ranges causing knock, or
does going too far in any direction (how much?) cause it?

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Roger Gerl
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:38 AM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: wrong plug heat range causes knock?

The 1 range colder Iridiums do normally help but more and more I hear that
even those are causing problems.

At 04:56 03.05.2002 -0400, Bill vp wrote:
>I have a '91 R/T tt with a 25k mile engine, 15G's, 550's, Walbro pump,
>VPC/SAFC, etc.
>
>I looked on my cd manual for the instructions to change the knock sensor,
>since I'm hoping it might have been torqued down incorrectly when I had my
>heads replaced (recently) or the engine installed, and saw this under the
>knock-sensor section:
>
>"When knocking occurs while driving under high-load conditions, the
>following problems are suspected in addition to the detonation sensor
>itself.
>(1) Inappropriate ignition plug heat range
>(2) Inappropriate gasoline
>(3) Incorrectly adjusted reference ignition timing"
>
>How far off does the heat range have to be to cause knock?  Is this only if
>you go "hotter"?  I currently have Denso Iridiums IK22's, which are 1 heat
>range colder than stock, and am getting (on the pocketlogger) massive (20+)
>knock at anything over 9 psi unless I run super rich (1.0v +) past 5500
rpm,
>and was thinking maybe this could be the problem?  Or maybe this in
addition
>to the sometimes problematic iridium plugs with our cars.
>
>Do you all think I should replace just the plugs with some coppers (BCPR6ES
>?) before I worry about replacing the knock sensor, or should I try to do
>both at once (I've never replaced plugs before myself)?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 14:54:45 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: pillar-pod

The pillar pods visually align with the A-pillar itself so there is no change
in sightlines, at least with how I am positioned in the driver's seat. One,
two, or three pods make no difference.

The dual pods are designed with enough separation between pods so that both
gauges are easily scene in their entirety. However, the single pod that I
placed "below" the dual sits a little closer to the middle pod and the upper
left corner of the lower gauge is partially obscured. I also have one of the
Lotek triple-pods. I have not installed it but the "partial-concealment"
problem of the lowest gauge appears to be a little worse with their design.

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: pillar-pod

Jeff,

What does that pod arrangement do to your sightlines?  Does it add/increase
blindspots enough to cause much trouble?

Dennis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 07:58:17 -0700
From: Andrew Woll <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: Iridium or Platinum

Hi folks:  I am about to the point where I need to replace my plugs. I was
looking through the archives and it looks like the consensus is NGK. NGK
just brought out a new iridium plug which is about half the price of
platinums. Anyone know anything about the new NGK iridiums?

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:19:16 -0400
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: iridium plug gapping

I gapped my Iridium plugs. But is did not use the gapping tool as a
screwdriver or as a wedge. I carefully bent the side electrode by lightly
tapping on it and CHECKING (not gapping) the new gap with the gapping too.
If you overbend the side electrode, just use small pliers to bend it back.

But getting colder plugs with the correct gap is your best choice. You can
try selling your IK20 if the place where you bought them won't agree to
exchange them.

Philip

- ------------------------------------------------

> I've read some of you gap these things to .034. Which should
> I do? The mods the car will have by the time I install thes will be K&N
> FIPK, boost controller set to about 14-14.5 psi, vitek wires, borla
> cat-back, atr downpipe,fidanza aluminum flywheel and ACT Modified street
> disc clutch. thanks

If you really want to gap the plugs to 0.032", then you are better off
returning your IK20 (they are supposed to be pre-gapped to 0.044") and
ordering the IK22 (one range cooler and pre-gapped to 0.032")

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:19:59 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Dis 4 HO

Was curious about this unit...  I have seen it advertised, and MSD
claims it works on the 3000GT (all but SOHC models).  The HO version has
170 millijoules worth of spark energy, etc. etc.  What I can't figure
out is why does no one use this unit?  Its only $330 from Jegs and
Summit... 

Any ideas???

- -Cody

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #830
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