Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, February 22
2002 Volume 01 : Number
761
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:18:44 -0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Report on Iowa DSM shop
I told you a few weeks ago about the
opening of a new performance shop in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and promised to report
on the kind of work they do.
Here's my report: So far, so
good.
The shop is Fast and Furious on 16th Avenue SW in Cedar Rapids.
(call 319/365-3336, ask for Trent Durham, and tell 'em Rich sent you).
So
far, they've installed a Supra fuel pump in my 3000GT VR4, repaired a leaky
water hose in my Talon, and performed the "free horsepower mods" on the Talon
(as shown on the Road Race Engineering web site).
They have my
confidence, so we'll be doing some more complicated stuff soon, including a DSBC
boost controller and Blitz BOV in the VR4.
We had a big discussion about
adding NOS and 560 injectors to the VR4, but decided to go with the boost
controller instead. It's nice to have somebody to talk to who understands the
car.
The "free mods" work pretty good. The stock-engined Talon was peaky
before, but now it has a nice strong pull to it. Trent showed me how to do an
AWD launch (in a little dirt), and the car fairly LEAPED off the line like a
little rocket ship. It's nice to do a mod to the car and see an instant
improvement.
I hope folks in Iowa and nearby will patronize this place.
I don't want to lose it, now that we finally have somebody in the area who
understands our cars, and provides a real alternative to
Satan.
Rich
92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD turbo
94 3000GT VR4 AWD
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:32:51
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Thermo Tec exhaust tape questions.
I haven't seen it on headers,
etc. but I have seen the hard IC pipes
wrapped to keep the air inside them
from heating up. This cools the air
a few degrees and gives a few more
hp. Maybe those of us about 300 hp
have enough to waste that we don't
care as much as the N/A folks who try
and get every last bit of their 240 hp
out of the car.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: fastmax
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002
22:18
No --- But I've heard that wraping some of the SS headers can
result in
cracked headers. Some of the racer types ues it to get the last erg
of
energy out of the system but they rebuild there car every other day
so
it probably isn't an issue.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:36:47
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rims
At 08:01 PM 2/21/02 -0600, Christopher Deutsch
wrote:
>I'd like to be able to take my car out to the track, and like
you
>said I don't want them bending or breaking. I'm
>running
stock 17s right now, but am looking for something geared
towards
>performance. If the stock ones are fine then great!
>
I am running stock 94 chromies on the street and alloy wheels on
track. I am seriously considering reversing everything (i.e., run the chromies
on the track), because there ain't nuttin stronger than a stock Mitsu wheel. I
keep checking my alloys for cracks at the track, and won't be the least bit
surprised when I find one. With the new sway bars, I'll be putting lots of
cornering pressure on those wheels. Chris, my man, you cannot go wrong by
running stock wheels. If you can find a set of ratty stock chromies for $100
each, that would be an ideal solution.
Rich/slow old poop/94
VR4>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:45:55
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Report on Iowa DSM shop
What about price, Rich? I had the
rear anti-sway bar put it for
straight price ($60/hour) for 3 hours so $180
($12 tax) no additional
parts, etc. My tuning shop that has the Ferrari
mechanic at it is the
best shop around but it is upwards of $100 an hour
(mucho experience,
nice cars, nice folks, etc.).
How about some
non-dealer shops who are trying to compete for price?
-
--Flash!
Pittsburgh, PA
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 22:19
I told you a few weeks ago about
the opening of a new performance shop
in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and promised to
report on the kind of work they
do.
Here's my report: So far, so
good.
The shop is Fast and Furious on 16th Avenue SW in Cedar Rapids.
(call
319/365-3336, ask for Trent Durham, and tell 'em Rich sent
you).
So far, they've installed a Supra fuel pump in my 3000GT VR4,
repaired a
leaky water hose in my Talon, and performed the "free horsepower
mods"
on the Talon (as shown on the Road Race Engineering web site).
They have my confidence, so we'll be doing some more complicated
stuff
soon, including a DSBC boost controller and Blitz BOV in the VR4.
We had a big discussion about adding NOS and 560 injectors to the
VR4,
but decided to go with the boost controller instead. It's nice to
have
somebody to talk to who understands the car.
The "free mods"
work pretty good. The stock-engined Talon was peaky
before, but now it has a
nice strong pull to it. Trent showed me how to
do an AWD launch (in a little
dirt), and the car fairly LEAPED off the
line like a little rocket ship. It's
nice to do a mod to the car and see
an instant improvement.
I hope
folks in Iowa and nearby will patronize this place. I don't want
to lose it,
now that we finally have somebody in the area who
understands our cars, and
provides a real alternative to Satan.
Rich
92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
turbo
94 3000GT VR4 AWD TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:44:16
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: online source for factory parts
go check out
www.groundzeroperformance.com
and ask Hans! I know he has
really good pricing on factory mitsu parts
and if you can't find them on his
site, then you should give him a call and
order directly. You can get the
parts shipped to your
door.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Melillo <
anthonymelillo3@comcast.net>
To:
Team 3S List Submissions <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:25 PM
Subject: Team3S: online source for
factory parts
Ah these email problems are going to drive me nuts. All my
messages from
yesterday came back with unable to deliver. Maybe I
should
start my own ISP. Just kidding.
I need to get a new plastic
shroud that goes around the instrument panel,
and the glass covers from the
fog lights on my 1997 VR-4,
and was wondering if anyone knew of an online
source for these parts ?
I no longer have access to the local dealer, so
I can't buy it locally,
without driving 45 minutes.
Thanks
all
Anthony Melillo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:49:58
-0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Actually, the picture did not get
through. :-( I just CC'd you and Chuck.
I almost doubled all the
angles to make they noticeable, but I guess I
should have quadrupled them. I
will make a new pick tomorrow and then post
it somewhere. The slip angles
are the same between the two pictures. The
yaw on the AWS car is smaller by
1.5 degrees and the front wheels are
turned by 1.5 degrees more so that the
turning radius stays the same. You
have to work your steering wheel more on
an AWS car to make a turn, but
less to change lanes.
Philip
At
07:56 PM 2/21/2002, Darren Schilberg wrote:
>How did you even get an
attachment through? All mine bounce or get
>converted to those
letters. I'm impressed with just THAT.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:58:27
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE: high speed gauge shot
2nd gen speedo exactly corresponds with
calculation with rpm off gauge and
known gear ratio ---top of 4th is 150mph
on my 95VR-4
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Mihai Raicu
<
mraicu@wayne.edu>
To:
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: high speed gauge
shot
>Roger,
>
>Is the additional 10-16km/h above 150 km/h
just for 1st gen cars that do
>not have their speed gear changed? Or
does the 2nd gen speedo show
>optimistic
also?
>
>-MIHAI-
>95 Red VR4
>
>>Our tach shows
about 10-16km/h too much above 150
km/h
>>
>>Roger
>>93'3000GT
TT
>>www.rtec.ch
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:03:08
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Ooooh. I'm special. I put
the pics up for now on my site. Send me the
new ones or post them
someplace yourself. Yes, make the angles more
dramatic.
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/Non-AWS.gifwww.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/AWS.gif-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Philip V. Glazatov
Sent:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 22:50
To:
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
All-Wheel Steering advice
Actually, the picture did not get through.
:-( I just CC'd you and
Chuck.
I almost doubled all the
angles to make they noticeable, but I guess I
should have quadrupled them. I
will make a new pick tomorrow and then
post
it somewhere. The slip angles
are the same between the two pictures. The
yaw on the AWS car is smaller
by 1.5 degrees and the front wheels are
turned by 1.5 degrees more so that
the turning radius stays the same.
You
have to work your steering wheel
more on an AWS car to make a turn, but
less to change
lanes.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:06:44
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rims
Nickel
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From:
apedenko@attbi.com <
apedenko@attbi.com>
To:
dschilberg@pobox.com <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Cc:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>
Date: Friday,
February 22, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rims
>I don't know
what mitsu does, but a guy a tire shop
>said that to properly chrome a
wheel is a three step
>process. The dip it in something (don't remember
what),
>copper and chrome.
>
> Alex.
>>
Ahhhhh. But remember that Mitsu is not in the aftermarket chrome
wheel
>> business for several reasons: they can't do it real well, they
make more
>> money from cars, they can't do it real well, and something
else, and
>> they can't do it real well. Every chrome wheel I've
seen on a 3000GT
>> has chrome cracking and chipping (maybe 2 sets out
of 90 cars this
>> hasn't happened to). Don't know about
Dodge. And because it is
>> chipping I know how thin this chrome
is (not very much ... like about
>> the thickness of a sheet of
paper).
>>
>> Don't they just hook up a charge to the wheel
and then have the chrome
>> particles the opposite charge so that the
chrome is applied to the wheel
>> or is it a bath (dipping)
process? I'm sure the real process and the
>> Mitsu process is
different.
>>
>> --Flash!
>>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From: Furman, Russell
>> Sent:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 17:56
>>
>> That saying is
applied for 2 reasons, 1 the process of chroming a wheel
>>
weakens the metal and 2 chrome wheels are generally heavier
>>
(thicker/more
>> material used) to compensate for the weakening caused
by the chroming
>> process.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:30:06
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Thermo Tec exhaust tape questions.
Your turbo manifold is
made for much more heat as well.
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, dakken
wrote:
> In short my questions are: Has anyone used the Thermo
Tec exhaust tape or
> the turbo kit on their car? If so have you had
any problems with it?
>
> I have a 87 Toyota Celica GT-S that I
used the exhaust tape on in 94. It
> worked so well that if I drove
on the highway for more than 20 minutes, my
> exhaust manifold would be
glowing red hot. I had a little performance boost
> and it made it
much easier to work on the car right after driving or with
> the engine
running (I could work around the exhaust manifold without gloves
> and not
burn my hand if I accidentally touched the manifold). The bad
thing
> is that after 2 years my exhaust manifold had 4 major cracks in it
and was
> so brittle that nearly every mount on it broke as the manifold
was being
> removed. I definately don't want to repeat that with my
new Stealth.
>
> Doug
> 92 Stealth RT TT
-
---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:32:02
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Thermo Tec exhaust tape questions.
SS is a great heat
retainer..and relatively brittle as well.
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, fastmax
wrote:
> No --- But I've heard that wraping some of the SS headers can
result in
> cracked headers. Some of the racer types ues it to get the
last erg of
> energy out of the system but they rebuild there car every
other day so
> it probably isn't an issue.
>
> Jim Berry
>
===========================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dakken" <
dougusmagnus@attbi.com>
> To:
<
team3s@team3s.com>
> Sent:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:03 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Thermo Tec exhaust
tape questions.
>
> > In short my questions are: Has
anyone used the Thermo Tec exhaust tape or
> > the turbo kit on their
car? If so have you had any problems with it?
> >
> > I
have a 87 Toyota Celica GT-S that I used the exhaust tape on in 94.
It
> > worked so well that if I drove on the highway for more than 20
minutes, my
> > exhaust manifold would be glowing red hot. I had
a little performance boost
> > and it made it much easier to work on
the car right after driving or with
> > the engine running (I could
work around the exhaust manifold without gloves
> > and not burn my
hand if I accidentally touched the manifold). The bad thing
> >
is that after 2 years my exhaust manifold had 4 major cracks in it and
was
> > so brittle that nearly every mount on it broke as the manifold
was being
> > removed. I definately don't want to repeat that
with my new Stealth.
> >
> > Doug
> > 92 Stealth RT
TT
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:43:52
-0500 (EST)
From: Joseph Spainhour <
spainhou@coastalnet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 60K tune-up
Hi everyone,
I just bought a 3000gt vr4
and would like to do the 60K
service. Most of the work I have done before,
but I am a
little worried about doing the timing belt. What is the worst
that can happen if I do not get it 100% correct? Also,
if I have the
dealer replace the timing belt, should I
bother replacing the ac/ps belts as
the dealer will have
to remove them to get to the timing
belt?
thanks,
Joseph
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:21:27
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rims
Okay, so my question, *sort of* got answered. I
mentioned in my original email, that I'm only looking at 18" wheels; I've read
in the digests that 17" wheels are a tad difficult to find (aside from stock) to
fit on the wheels. That aside, does anyone know of an online store that
has a good selection of rims specific to our car? There were only 4 on
tirerack and I don't recall any of them being chrome. Speaking of, list,
help me out here, I thought chrome tires were offly heavy too. Is there
really that big of a problem running alloys in our cars with cracks? When
I bought my '94 VR-4, it has stock wheels, but they're painted alloys, not
chrome (as they should be? Actually I noticed several things
missing...). Because if there *is* a problem with alloy wheels cracking (I
don't track race, only freeway/road course... read my quote) then I need to get
rid of these rims ASAP! Thanks
list.
==========================
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
"1/4 mile
racing is weak; many women judge men by their cars (ooh, ferrari - he's making
up for "downstairs") so are you saying you're that quick in bed too? Pull
up, and hold with me on the road, then you have my respect."
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:22:32
+0800
From: "John Stegall III" <
jstegall@programmer.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rims
Okay, so my question, *sort of* got answered. I
mentioned in my original email, that I'm only looking at 18" wheels; I've read
in the digests that 17" wheels are a tad difficult to find (aside from stock) to
fit on the wheels. That aside, does anyone know of an online store that
has a good selection of rims specific to our car? There were only 4 on
tirerack and I don't recall any of them being chrome. Speaking of, list,
help me out here, I thought chrome tires were offly heavy too. Is there
really that big of a problem running alloys in our cars with cracks? When
I bought my '94 VR-4, it has stock wheels, but they're painted alloys, not
chrome (as they should be? Actually I noticed several things
missing...). Because if there *is* a problem with alloy wheels cracking (I
don't track race, only freeway/road course... read my quote) then I need to get
rid of these rims ASAP! Thanks
list.
==========================
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
"1/4 mile
racing is weak; many women judge men by their cars (ooh, ferrari - he's making
up for "downstairs") so are you saying you're that quick in bed too? Pull
up, and hold with me on the road, then you have my respect."
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:35:56
-0500
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <
stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 60K tune-up
Most of your questions are discussed in great detail
at the
http://www.team3s.com FAQ, but
I'll give you some bullets:
"What is the worst that can happen if I do
not get it 100% correct?"
~$1800. These are positive interference
engines, meaning that a
slipped/broken/siezed timing belt will cause the
pistons to smash into the
valves.
"Also, if I have the dealer replace
the timing belt, should I bother
replacing the ac/ps belts as the dealer will
have to remove them to get to
the timing belt?"
Yes, and the water
pump and tensioner.
Hope this helps, welcome to the S3K
asylum...
Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
136,000 miles, only three
"unscheduled maintenance events"
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@coastalnet.com>
To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:43 PM
Subject: Team3S: 60K tune-up
Hi
everyone,
I just bought a 3000gt vr4 and would like to do the
60K
service. Most of the work I have done before, but I am a
little
worried about doing the timing belt. What is the worst
that can happen if I
do not get it 100% correct? Also,
if I have the dealer replace the timing
belt, should I
bother replacing the ac/ps belts as the dealer will have
to
remove them to get to the timing
belt?
thanks,
Joseph
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:51:00
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: boost controller
> If you install the Supra pump without
an adjustable fuel pressure
regulator
> or an electronic fuel
controller (i.e. S-AFC) you will run rich at idle
(and
> probably WOT,
too).
Nahhh, absolutely not. The pressure is not increased at
all
> For the boost controller, splice the boost sensing line into the
vacuum
hose
> to the FPR (blue stripe - *before* the
solenoid).
This boost controller doesn't have any boost sensing line
!!
> The wastegate line TO the
> boost controller should
come from the nipple on the y-pipe (disconnect the
> black line with the
red end) and the wastegate line FROM the boost
> controller should connect
to the black line (with the red end) that you
> disconnected from the
y-pipe. Then disconnect and plug the hoses (white
> stripe on one)
that attach to the stock boost control solenoid (on
firewall
> behind
throttle body, farthest one toward driver's side).
Unfortunately, your
advices are irritating. Also, often on older cars the
stribes on the hoses
are not visible anymore (on mine for example)
On our cars both wastegates
are served by the same pressure distributed by a
4-way connector located near
the rear turbo. The source is indeed the nipple
at the black y-pipe in the
ellbow before the throttle body.
The stock system already has a boost
controller installed that has to be
eliminated. To do this just remove one of
those hoses attached to the
solenoid and cap off the port as well the
hose.
Then just place the boost controller inline between the hose from the
ellbow
to the distributor.
Easy job... although you bougth the wrong
boost controller. Two stage
doesn't make sense on our cars since 15 psi is
the max you should run
anyways. A good electronic boost controller is always
the better solution as
the boost is in your right foot ! Send it back and get
the BLITZ DSBC from
3SX.
Regarding power, this heavily depends on the
health of your car. With 15 psi
you are in the range of
350-360hp
Roger
3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:28:54
-0800
From: "BlackLight" <
BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject:
Team3S: OT!! 94 RT TT for sale in NY with 6,200
miles!!
Unbelievable!! I have never seen this low of mileage!!! If anyone
is
looking for low miles, this is it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1807029619&r=0&t=0
Matt
Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem
OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Netwww.BlackLight.5u.com ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:40:54
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
FW: Team3S: online source for factory parts
I second that I just ordered
a bunch of stuff from Hans, one note of
suggestion do not use the drop downs
to fill in all you r car info it makes
things you may want to
disappear........
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Shelat
Sent: Thu 2/21/2002 5:44 PM
To: Anthony Melillo; Team 3S List
Submissions
Cc:
Subject: Re: Team3S: online source for factory
parts
go check out
www.groundzeroperformance.com
and ask Hans! I know he has
really good pricing on factory mitsu parts
and if you can't find them on his
site, then you should give him a call
and order directly. You can get the
parts shipped to your door.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Melillo <
anthonymelillo3@comcast.net>
To: Team 3S List Submissions <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:25 PM
Subject: Team3S: online source
for factory parts
Ah these email problems are going to drive me nuts.
All my messages from
yesterday came back with unable to deliver. Maybe
I should
start my own ISP. Just kidding.
I need to get a new plastic
shroud that goes around the instrument panel,
and the glass covers from the
fog lights on my 1997 VR-4,
and was wondering if anyone knew of an online
source for these parts ?
I no longer have access to the local dealer, so
I can't buy it locally,
without driving 45 minutes.
Thanks all
Anthony Melillo
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:38:00
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rims
John,
I have never had a problem finding
17" wheels for the car as there
are more available than 18" wheels. I
can send some links from the East
Coast Gathering where I assure you there
are 50 different brands of 17"
and 18" wheels. If not then it sure
looked like that many. I have also
seen 19" wheels on the car.
Maybe not strong. Maybe not the best
design. But they are out
there.
Chrome does not add much weight. It might add at
most a half pound
to each wheel ... okay one pound for a really thick
coating. ONE POUND.
These things weigh 3,800 pounds. You think
that makes a big of
difference? I think the jack outweighs all the
chrome on the car.
I have only heard of people cracking and
bending rims when they hit
potholes or curbs or run off the road and hit
something. I have never
heard one bending from normal street or track
use yet. Not the chrome,
not the alloy, not any lightweight cast
wheel. The light ones do bend
easier when hitting bumps but a friend
has bent three stock 18" VR-4
wheels in a year so it can
happen.
Below is an email from Rick with some wheel/tire
links. I don't know
if that will help. Are you saying you don't
like the stock wheels for
your car?
-----Original
Message-----
From: Rick
Sent: Friday, January
18, 2002 11:04
Hay guys I have been a member of
this group for some time now and
over the years, I have
noticed alot of questions regarding wheels
and tires. I myself
was in the market for a new set of wheels, and
ran into a bit of
trouble finding ones that fit. Below is a list of
links that
wheel make your wheel search much easier. The first link
has a
wheel chart.. The rest of the links are for people that want
to
know more about wheels and offsets and etc. Hope this helps.
www.autotrixx.com/specs.html
www.rsracing.com/tech-wheel.html
www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf20044.htm
www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/46431/article.html-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 daily driver and open track car
- -----Original
Message-----
From: John Stegall III
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002
00:21
Okay, so my question, *sort of* got answered. I
mentioned in my
original email, that I'm only looking at 18" wheels; I've
read in the
digests that 17" wheels are a tad difficult to find (aside from
stock)
to fit on the wheels. That aside, does anyone know of an online
store
that has a good selection of rims specific to our car? There were
only
4 on tirerack and I don't recall any of them being chrome.
Speaking of,
list, help me out here, I thought chrome tires were offly heavy
too. Is
there really that big of a problem running alloys in our cars
with
cracks? When I bought my '94 VR-4, it has stock wheels, but
they're
painted alloys, not chrome (as they should be? Actually I
noticed
several things missing...). Because if there *is* a problem
with alloy
wheels cracking (I don't track race, only freeway/road course...
read my
quote) then I need to get rid of these rims ASAP! Thanks
list.
==========================
John
1994 3000GT VR-4
"1/4 mile
racing is weak; many women judge men by their cars (ooh,
ferrari - he's
making up for "downstairs") so are you saying you're that
quick in bed
too? Pull up, and hold with me on the road, then you have
my
respect."
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:06:26
-0800
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Two questions really....one about cam gears, one about TT brakes on an
NA
1. I have an NA Stealth with a mod list that is growing rather fast. I
have
heard that cam gears (adjustable) should start at -1 deg and +3 deg
for
settings...I am sure this was for a TT but my question is will this be
good
for a start point on my NA?
2. I am also putting TT brake rotors
on my NA in the front, with all this
talk about 17" wheels I have gotten
myself in a worry about the calipers not
fitting. Is this going to be a
problem, stock TT calipers 92 on a 93 NA with
after market 17's? I know the
knucles and other stuff needed but I am
thinking I need 18's for some reason.
Also would I need to get TT front SS
lines instead of NA SS
lines?
Hans and Matt please chime in......
bobk.
93
NA
looking like a true 200hp at the wheels when I am done....then that
red
button for 100 more.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:13:40
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Two questions really....one about cam gears, one about TT brakes on an
NA
The second gen calipers and rotors on a first gen VR-4 fit under
a
Spyder VR-4 wheel and a 1997 SL 17" wheel. I don't know about the
fit
on an N/A but I imagine it is the same. 17" wheels also clear the
AP
6-piston brakes on a first gen VR-4.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and
lost the Big Reds in order to add the Tein HA suspension
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Robert Koch
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002
09:06
1. I have an NA Stealth with a mod list that is growing
rather fast. I
have
heard that cam gears (adjustable) should start at -1
deg and +3 deg for
settings...I am sure this was for a TT but my question is
will this be
good
for a start point on my NA?
2. I am also putting
TT brake rotors on my NA in the front, with all
this
talk about 17" wheels
I have gotten myself in a worry about the calipers
not
fitting. Is this
going to be a problem, stock TT calipers 92 on a 93 NA
with
after market
17's? I know the knucles and other stuff needed but I am
thinking I need 18's
for some reason. Also would I need to get TT front
SS
lines instead of NA
SS lines?
Hans and Matt please chime in......
bobk.
93
NA
looking like a true 200hp at the wheels when I am done....then that
red
button for 100 more.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:58:38
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rims
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002
4:16 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rims
>
> Heh. Maybe at the Instructor
clinic you push harder since there are no
> students watching.
>
[Willis, Charles E.]
> Maybe I just got sloppy and
casual.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:07:04
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
YES! Philip, you da'
man!
Now, since your discussion and diagram establishes that AWS
actually
INCREASES the slip angle of the rear tires by up to 1.5 degrees,
then it
could push you past the limit of adhesion, especially if you have the
front
wheels loaded at turn-in. That suggests the most surefootted way
to turn in
for our cars is to brake, get off the brakes, let the suspension
settle, and
turnin with the car neutral.
Nice
diagrams!
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
[SMTP:pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:37
PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com;
dschilberg@pobox.com; Willis, Charles
E.
> Subject: RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
>
>
I think this is the kind of case when
> an illustration is worth a
thousand words. (besides the two files are just
> 7K, I hope they go
through). If you flip back and forth between the two
> pictured you will
see the difference between the AWS and the non-AWS
> systems. Maybe
someone could make an animated GIF.
>
> It looks like the advantage
of the AWS system in a turn is that it cuts
> back on the unnecessary yaw
and fishtailing. You start turning earlier
> because all the wheels engage
and start carrying the lateral load
> simultaneously. And when you exit
out of the turn all you have to do it
> straighten the steering wheel and
you are going straight!
>
> Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:12:14
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Triangle Window Flaking & Headlight Covers
This is an
FAQ. There's a procedure for using a hair drier to restore
the
sticker's appearance - I need to do it on one of my windows.
On
your '94 like my '94 I think the "plastic" on the headlights is
actually
glass. It's held on pretty tight with adhesive around the
edges. I am under
the impressionthese can be removed.
Chuck
Willis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne
[SMTP:whietala@prodigy.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:37
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Triangle Window Flaking &
Headlight Covers
>
> To get those Triangle panels off, you have to
remove quite a bit of stuff
> Upper and lower interior panels
>
Window weatherstrip
> Metal under weatherstrip
> Front/top exterior
pillar
> Rear exterior pillar
>
> The plastic on the
headlights cannot be removed without cutting them
> apart.
> The
clips are there to make you think you can
>
> Wayne
>
> At 05:13 PM 2/21/02 -0500, Daniel Koczera wrote:
>
> >I
bought a '94 3000GT SL nt in 2000 with only 17k miles on it. It
was
> >and still in pristine shape. The only cosmetic problems
were/are:
> >1. the black triangle shaped door window on the drivers
side - the black
>
> >2. The plastic (glass?) exterior
covers on the headlights could be
> >cleaned on the inside or, if
needed, replaced. Are the covers sold
> >separate from the
headlight assembly? I noticed several clips that
> >appear to
hold the cover to the assembly, surely there's more to it than
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:15:05
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Two questions really....one about cam gears, one about TT brakes on an
NA
There are too many variables to know the answer to that question ---
with stock
rims the 1st gen 17" won't fit over 2nd gen brakes but the stock
2nd gen 17" will.
There are two areas that have to fit ---- the inside
diameter and the spokes
clearing the calipers. About the only way to know is
to try it ---- put your 17's on
a 1st gen
car.
Jim
Berry
==================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
>
2. I am also putting TT brake rotors on my NA in the front, with all
this
> talk about 17" wheels I have gotten myself in a worry about the
calipers not
> fitting. Is this going to be a problem, stock TT calipers
92 on a 93 NA with
> after market 17's? I know the knucles and other stuff
needed but I am
> thinking I need 18's for some reason. Also would I need
to get TT front SS
> lines instead of NA SS lines?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:15:36
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Triangle Window Flaking & Headlight Covers
If they are
anything like the MKIV supra lights, you can heat them up (on
lowest setting)
in the oven to soften the adhesive and remove the glass
polish it, then
reattach using some black RTV sealant. MKIV.com is down now
or I would
include the link.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis,
Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Friday,
February 22, 2002 10:12 AM
> To: 'Wayne'; Team3S
> Subject: RE:
Team3S: Triangle Window Flaking & Headlight Covers
>
> This is
an FAQ. There's a procedure for using a hair drier to restore the
>
sticker's appearance - I need to do it on one of my windows.
>
> On
your '94 like my '94 I think the "plastic" on the headlights is
>
actually
> glass. It's held on pretty tight with adhesive around the
edges. I am
> under
> the impressionthese can be
removed.
>
> Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Wayne [SMTP:whietala@prodigy.net]
> >
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 7:37 PM
> > To: Team3S
> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Triangle Window Flaking & Headlight Covers
> >
> > To get those Triangle panels off, you have to remove quite a bit
of
> stuff
> > Upper and lower interior panels
> >
Window weatherstrip
> > Metal under weatherstrip
> > Front/top
exterior pillar
> > Rear exterior pillar
> >
> > The
plastic on the headlights cannot be removed without cutting them
> >
apart.
> > The clips are there to make you think you can
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:30:47
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Or do my favorite trick which is
left-foot brake to slow the car AND to
settle it on to the front suspension,
turn-in (while still braking but
applying throttle to get the turbos spooled
to get the lag to zero), and
release the brakes just after turn-in so you get
to full throttle at the
apex, shift-up at the track-out, don't have the
sudden loading of the
suspension, and wear out your brake pads so you have to
bleed the fluid
after every session.
But when you want to go the fast
way around the track I see no faster
way. The Skip Barber book shows a
turn and indicates the time taken.
Like the time from full throttle to
braking is, say 0.4 seconds, and
from braking to throttle is 0.3 seconds so
that is 0.7 seconds that the
normal person loses in reaction time moving
their right foot from
throttle to brake and back. This also makes some
jerky motion and gets
the car unsettled on stock suspension (those with
aftermarket suspension
can't ignore most of this suspension talk).
But
since I use my left foot to brake and my right foot to accelerate
then I have
a 0.0 second transition from throttle to braking and a 0.0
second transition
from braking to throttle. Not only that, I have zero
turbo lag.
When most people go from brake to throttle in 3rd gear they
need to wait for
turbos to kick in (even with a boost controller) before
they can shoot out of
a corner. With left-foot braking as soon as you
let off the brakes you
are at full throttle (or scramble mode if you
care to be daring). This
gets me 0.7 seconds advantage right there.
That is like chilling the intake
air. It is free time in my mind. Do
that 8 corners out of 15 (or
so) and you gain an automatic 4.2 seconds
per lap.
I have had people
say how stable my car feels on stock suspension
because of this trick
(settling the car before turning in and making
smooth transitions to throttle
after braking). I hate to give away my
secrets but hate to see people
suffer from normal instruction too. Yes
this wears out brake pads, yes
this boils brake fluid. But with Big
Reds, race pads, and Motul 600 I
could afford to do that and bleed it
out later. If you are going slow
and learning the line you won't be
fast. If you are wanting to hot-foot
it around in full-turbo 2nd and
3rd gear then the car is gonna get hot.
Ya just live with each scenario
as you need to.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002
10:07
YES! Philip, you da' man!
Now, since your
discussion and diagram establishes that AWS actually
INCREASES the slip angle
of the rear tires by up to 1.5 degrees, then it
could push you past the limit
of adhesion, especially if you have the
front
wheels loaded at
turn-in. That suggests the most surefootted way to
turn in
for our
cars is to brake, get off the brakes, let the suspension
settle,
and
turnin with the car neutral.
Nice
diagrams!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:33:55
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
I give up, I guess I can't even
properly interpret diagrams any more. I
guess I'll just have another
beer ...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:07 AM
> To:
'pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com';
team3s@team3s.com;
dschilberg@pobox.com;
> Willis,
Charles E.
> Subject: RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
>
> AWS actually INCREASES the slip angle of the rear tires by up
to
> 1.5 degrees
>
> It looks like the advantage of the AWS
system in a turn is that it
> cuts
> back on the unnecessary yaw and
fishtailing. You start turning
> earlier
> because all the wheels
engage and start carrying the lateral load
> simultaneously. And when you
exit out of the turn all you have to do
> it
> straighten the
steering wheel and you are going straight!
>
>
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:14:18
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Haha! I am getting more and more
confused too. I tried to draw a more
exaggerated picture but then the slip
angles start getting affected more by
things like the turning radius and the
car length.
I will also make a picture with the assumption of an infinite
turning
radius and post it as well. That picture will show that the slip
angles on
an AWS car are not larger and not smaller than on a FWS
car.
Philip
>I give up, I guess I can't even properly interpret
diagrams any more. I
>guess I'll just have another beer
...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:30:30
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
All-Wheel Steering advice
What you're describing works great if you're
running a qualifying lap but
it doesn't appear that you could drive 15 or 20
laps like that --- you'll
burn your brakes to the ground. A technique that
only allows a few high
speed laps followed by a couple of cool off laps
is of little use other than
to piss off the guys you just passed. I'll
use left foot braking to transfer
weight to the front if I'm understeering
off the track, but, for the most part
I use them in a normal
fashion.
I look at a session as being sucessful if I can drive
consistantly fast laps,
my hot lap timer recorded 10 laps at Thuderhill all
within a few tenths and
they were also good lap times. My big weakness is in
following the racing
line --- I get sloppy at times and get off line because
it doesn't seem to
matter but I'm scrubbing off speed by holding turns too
tight --- I'm not
using all the track like I should.
Left foot braking
is indeed the fast way around the track but you need a
car that can support
it.
BTW --- even though you can save 7/10 of a second in the transition
from
full throttle to braking and back to full throttle you don't pick up
7/10 of a
second per lap. The car doesn't come to a stop in that interval
--- you may
pick up a 1/10th or
so.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Friday,
February 22, 2002 7:30 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: All-Wheel Steering
advice
> Or do my favorite trick which is left-foot brake to slow the
car AND to
> settle it on to the front suspension, turn-in (while still
braking but
> applying throttle to get the turbos spooled to get the lag
to zero), and
> release the brakes just after turn-in so you get to full
throttle at the
> apex, shift-up at the track-out, don't have the sudden
loading of the
> suspension, and wear out your brake pads so you have to
bleed the fluid
> after every session.
>
> But when you want
to go the fast way around the track I see no faster
> way. The Skip
Barber book shows a turn and indicates the time taken.
> Like the time
from full throttle to braking is, say 0.4 seconds, and
> from braking to
throttle is 0.3 seconds so that is 0.7 seconds that the
> normal person
loses in reaction time moving their right foot from
> throttle to brake
and back. This also makes some jerky motion and gets
> the car
unsettled on stock suspension (those with aftermarket suspension
> can't
ignore most of this suspension talk).
>
> But since I use my left
foot to brake and my right foot to accelerate
> then I have a 0.0 second
transition from throttle to braking and a 0.0
> second transition from
braking to throttle. Not only that, I have zero
> turbo lag.
When most people go from brake to throttle in 3rd gear they
> need to wait
for turbos to kick in (even with a boost controller) before
> they can
shoot out of a corner. With left-foot braking as soon as you
> let
off the brakes you are at full throttle (or scramble mode if you
> care to
be daring). This gets me 0.7 seconds advantage right there.
> That
is like chilling the intake air. It is free time in my mind.
Do
> that 8 corners out of 15 (or so) and you gain an automatic 4.2
seconds
> per lap.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:36:44
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
Careful guys. Making an infinite
turning radius (a turn with radius of
one mile) is not enough to induce the
AWS. Is that what you meant by
infitite turning radius?
The AWS
only kicks in when the front wheels turn a specified amount
AND/OR when the
rear wheels have a specified force acting upon them.
Then it is the amount
that the graph indicates. Cranking the front
wheels (50 degrees) will
get the back wheels to turn at 1.5 degrees.
Turning the front wheels at 35
degrees might still make the back wheels
turn at 1.5 degrees. It all
depends on several factors. The graph on
this page from the TIM manual
on Jeff Lucius' page shows vehicle speed
and lateral force which then makes a
point on the graph. Taking a flat
turn at 80 mph might not be
enough. Taking a banked turn where the car
is sliding and putting
lateral forces on the rear wheel will be enough
to get AWS to kick in.
(The chart is on Page 07.)
Vehicle speed along the X-axis (starting at 60
km/h or 37 mph (the 60
looks like a 50 so that is where the confusion is))
and Rear wheel
steering angle along the Y-axis in degrees generates the
Lateral
acceleration lines in the middle which are labeled 0.3g, 0.5g, and
0.7g.
If going at 70 mph (which was what I was doing in the scenario
that
started this whole mess) that gives me a choice of three lines on
the
graph and I bet more if the G-Tech Pro could have told me what G's I
was
cornering in. Let's assume 0.5g on the graph. That relates to
about
0.8 degrees in the rear wheels. If all of a sudden I turn the
front
wheel or the turn gets sharper (turn is banked) then it might be
0.7g
all of a sudden and this means the rear wheels will turn 1.3
degrees.
That is nearly an instantaneous jump from 0.8 to 1.3 or 0.5
degrees. No
wonder it feels like someone on the back end of a
rear-steered fire
truck just turned the rear wheels. It is like giving
some 1/2 degree of
input in at the front. Note that at lower speeds the
degree of the rear
wheel steering is more dramatic than at higher
speeds.
http://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_19b-02.gifhttp://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_19b-05.gifhttp://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_19b-06.gifhttp://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_19b-07.gifhttp://www.team3s.com/STIM91/Images/tim_19b-11.gif-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 and slowly beginning to learn how to take advantage of
this
- -----Original Message-----
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSent:
Friday, February 22, 2002 11:14
Haha! I am getting more and more
confused too. I tried to draw a more
exaggerated picture but then the slip
angles start getting affected more
by
things like the turning radius and
the car length.
I will also make a picture with the assumption of an
infinite turning
radius and post it as well. That picture will show that the
slip angles
on
an AWS car are not larger and not smaller than on a FWS
car.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:37:42
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: All-Wheel Steering advice
This is going to the 3S Racers
list. Follow it there if you need to.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of fastmax
Sent: Friday,
February 22, 2002 11:31
To:
dschilberg@pobox.com;
team3s@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
All-Wheel Steering advice
What you're describing works great if you're
running a qualifying lap
but
it doesn't appear that you could drive 15 or
20 laps like that ---
you'll
burn your brakes to the ground. A technique
that only allows a few high
speed laps followed by a couple of cool off
laps is of little use other
than
to piss off the guys you just
passed. I'll use left foot braking to
transfer
weight to the front if I'm
understeering off the track, but, for the
most part
I use them in a normal
fashion.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:43:38
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: BAFMOC
As the start of the season looms, I am pondering once
again how to keep the car cool. As we found at Heartland Park, 2nd gen cars seem
to overheat much more than 1st gen cars.
I was peering into the grille
the other day, to where the stock oil cooler has been relocated, and wondered if
it's time to install a BAFMOC (big ass front-mounted oil cooler). Seems like we
could get a two ft wide oil cooler in there. Suppose it would help keep the car
cool? What about oil pressure problems? What about blocking flow to the
radiator?
Any thoughts on keeping our cool this summer?
Rich/slow
old poop
94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:06:22
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
I thought I saw on Lucius' car where he put a FMOC
(front-mounted oil
cooler) down underneath almost where the plastic undertray
is. I can't
find the picture so I don't know if it was his car but it
was a
relocation kit from GT-Pro or Alamo or someone like that.
Rich,
do you remember what temp gauge was getting pegged? Mine was the
water
temp. I had straight antifreeze (being from the cooler climate
of
Pittsburgh, PA) and I know running 50/50 water/antifreeze or some
water
wetter would have helped but my water temp was pegged so I need a
FMIC
first before oil. Oil can get hot and doesn't degrade or lose as
much
potential cooling power as water.
Is this where the oil cooler is
on a Stealth? Mine is in the driver's
side wheelwell almost behind the
intercooler. I was told that oil temp
and water temp are similar temps
on the track most of the time. Also,
the oil pressure is a rough
estimate of the oil temp most of the time
(until it gets way out of
line). Still ... I have no idea what oil
temps I see on the
track.
Of course ... you could run up in Canada to stay
cool.
Lucius' car:
www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius3/j3-fmoc.jpgMy
car:
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/VR-4_oil_cooler.pdf-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Friday, February 22, 2002 11:44
As the start of the season looms, I
am pondering once again how to keep
the car cool. As we found at Heartland
Park, 2nd gen cars seem to
overheat much more than 1st gen cars.
I was
peering into the grille the other day, to where the stock oil
cooler has been
relocated, and wondered if it's time to install a BAFMOC
(big ass
front-mounted oil cooler). Seems like we could get a two ft
wide oil cooler
in there. Suppose it would help keep the car cool? What
about oil pressure
problems? What about blocking flow to the radiator?
Any thoughts on
keeping our cool this summer?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:33:08
-0500
From: "Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
Since this is a moderateley slow "news
day" I am going to post a question
that has been bothering me. How do you
convert bar to boost? I have stock
turbos and need to re-configure my
EVC,VPC, etc. and I read that my EVC can
go up to 2.5bar (36.25psi)!!! This
is obviously too much for stock. So....
2.5bar x .5 = 1.25 bar and 18.125psi
(still too high) 1.25 bar x .5 =.625
bar and 9.06 psi. So in conclusion is
my math right? Shoul I be running
about .625-.75 bar at
9.06psi-???
Thanks,
Tom
92 VR4
TNT3KGT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:37:36
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
1b is 14.7psi.
1atmos is
14.5psi.
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Tom Terflinger wrote:
> Since
this is a moderateley slow "news day" I am going to post a question
>
that has been bothering me. How do you convert bar to boost? I have stock
> turbos and need to re-configure my EVC,VPC, etc. and I read that my EVC
can
> go up to 2.5bar (36.25psi)!!! This is obviously too much for stock.
So....
> 2.5bar x .5 = 1.25 bar and 18.125psi (still too high) 1.25 bar x
.5 =.625
> bar and 9.06 psi. So in conclusion is my math right? Shoul I
be running
> about .625-.75 bar at 9.06psi-???
>
>
Thanks,
> Tom
> 92 VR4
> TNT3KGT
- ---
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:39:06
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost controller
> > If you install the Supra pump without
an adjustable
> > fuel pressure regulator or an electronic fuel
> > controller (i.e. S-AFC) you will run rich at idle
> >
(and probably WOT, too).
> Nahhh, absolutely not. The pressure is not
increased at all
Really? Are the 1st generation fuel
pump/injectors/rails/FPR different?
I've observed this in person on a '94
VR-4 with the Supra pump and it's
discussed ad nauseam on 3SI. From
what I understand, the return orifice on
the stock FPR is too small and
doesn't allow enough return flow to the tank
with the Supra pump. Thus
rail pressure is increased and you run rich if
the ECM is reaches the limit
of its trim values to adjust closed-loop fuel
delivery. At WOT, it's
open-loop, so that's why I figured that increased
rail pressure would make
you run rich (ECM using static fuel maps based on
43psi + boost).
>
> For the boost controller, splice the boost sensing line into
> >
the vacuum hose to the FPR (blue stripe - *before* the solenoid).
>
This boost controller doesn't have any boost sensing line !!
Oops - my
bad. I haven't memorized all the different types of boost
controllers
yet and was confused. I was thinking of the connections for
an
electronic boost controller. So Pete doesn't have to connect that
line to
the FPR hose and everything else I said still applies.
>
> The wastegate line TO the
> > boost controller should come from
the nipple on the y-pipe
> > (disconnect the black line with the red
end) and the wastegate
> > line FROM the boost controller should
connect to the black line
> > (with the red end) that you disconnected
from the y-pipe. Then
> > disconnect and plug the hoses (white
stripe on one) that attach
> > to the stock boost control solenoid (on
firewall
> > behind throttle body, farthest one toward driver's
side).
> Unfortunately, your advices are irritating. Also, often on
older
> cars the stribes on the hoses are not visible anymore
> (on
mine for example)
Ok, perhaps that's true on some cars, although I've
seen many 3/Ss in the
'91 to '95 range where the stripes are very
visible. If they're not, often
a damp cloth (water or light cleaner)
will allow you to see the stripes.
For gosh sakes, even the factory service
manual refers to the colored
stripes on the hoses, so I'm not sure how my
advice qualifies as irritating.
> <Roger's explanation of the
installation process>
So that was almost exactly what I said, only I
didn't mention the H
connector because I thought the instructions would be
simpler that way. I
don't think I said anything incorrect.
(???)
- --Erik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:43:53
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
Sorry Geoff, I am busy as hell
today and forgot to check where this thing
was going :(
Now see below
for the tech help part of this email see below
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:44
PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs.
Boost
>
> Cool, Tom might want to know that.
>
> On
Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Furman, Russell wrote:
>
> > Try this site it
has all sorts of conversions on it
www.convert-me.com>
> >
> > Worked pretty well for me in the past
> >
> >
> -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, February 22,
2002 1:38 PM
> > > To: Tom Terflinger
> > > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> > >
> >
> 1b is 14.7psi.
> > >
> > > 1atmos is
14.5psi.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Tom
Terflinger wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since this is a
moderateley slow "news day" I am going to post a
> > > question
> > > > that has been bothering me. How do you convert bar to
boost? I have
> > > stock
> > > > turbos and need to
re-configure my EVC,VPC, etc. and I read that my
> EVC
> > >
can
> > > > go up to 2.5bar (36.25psi)!!! This is obviously too
much for stock.
> > > So....
> > > > 2.5bar x .5 =
1.25 bar and 18.125psi (still too high) 1.25 bar x .5
> > > =.625
> > > > bar and 9.06 psi. So in conclusion is my math right?
Shoul I be
> running
> > > > about .625-.75 bar at
9.06psi-???
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> > > > 92 VR4
> > > >
TNT3KGT
> > > ---
> > > Geoff Mohler
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:44:13
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Bar vs. kg/cm^2
Ok, so while we're on this topic, does anyone
know what the units for the
readout on the GReddy Profec A are? In the
course of reading the user's
manual, it says the readout is in "bar" in one
place and "kg/cm^2" in
another place. I know it's only 0.5psi
difference between 1bar and
1kg/cm^2, but I'm confused.
GReddy's boost
gauges are in kg/cm^2, so I'd expect that the PRofec readout
is also in those
units... so why the mention of "bar" in the users' manual?
Anyone
actually tested it? If no one knows, maybe that'll motivate me to
get
out my pressure regulator and check...
- --Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:45:55
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
nope.
1 bar = 14.5 psi
1
atmosphere = 14.7 psi at least on this planet!
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictA.html>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:38
PM
> To: Tom Terflinger
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
>
> 1b is
14.7psi.
>
> 1atmos is 14.5psi.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:46:37
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: boost controller
>> If you install the Supra pump
without an adjustable
>> fuel pressure regulator or an electronic
fuel
>> controller (i.e. S-AFC) you will run rich at idle
>>
(and probably WOT, too).
> Nahhh, absolutely not. The pressure is not
increased at all
Roger, which fuel pump are you using in your car?
I've seen some of the
symptoms that others have with the Supra pump and stock
fuel pressure
regulator. I don't have my fuel pressure gauge hooked up
yet to determine
if my fuel pressure is indeed rising above specs at idle
though. Hopefully
this weekend.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:50:11
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
No problems. :^)
On Fri,
22 Feb 2002, Furman, Russell wrote:
> Sorry Geoff, I am busy as
hell today and forgot to check where this thing
> was going :(
>
>
> Now see below for the tech help part of this email see
below
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff
Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 22,
2002 1:44 PM
> > To: Furman, Russell
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> >
> > Cool, Tom might want to know
that.
> >
> > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Furman, Russell
wrote:
> >
> > > Try this site it has all sorts of
conversions on it
www.convert-me.com> >
>
> >
> > > Worked pretty well for me in the past
> >
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >
From: Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > >
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:38 PM
> > > > To: Tom
Terflinger
> > > > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> > > >
> > > > 1b is 14.7psi.
> > > >
> > >
> 1atmos is 14.5psi.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri,
22 Feb 2002, Tom Terflinger wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > Since this is a moderateley slow "news day" I am going to post
a
> > > > question
> > > > > that has been
bothering me. How do you convert bar to boost? I have
> > > >
stock
> > > > > turbos and need to re-configure my EVC,VPC,
etc. and I read that my
> > EVC
> > > > can
>
> > > > go up to 2.5bar (36.25psi)!!! This is obviously too much for
stock.
> > > > So....
> > > > > 2.5bar x .5 =
1.25 bar and 18.125psi (still too high) 1.25 bar x .5
> > > >
=.625
> > > > > bar and 9.06 psi. So in conclusion is my math
right? Shoul I be
> > running
> > > > > about
.625-.75 bar at 9.06psi-???
> > > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
Tom
> > > > > 92 VR4
> > > > >
TNT3KGT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:50:46
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
*heh*
Thanks. The
arguments gon on so many times..I cant even recall.
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002,
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> nope.
> 1 bar = 14.5
psi
> 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi at least on this planet!
>
>
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictA.html>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002
12:38 PM
> > To: Tom Terflinger
> > Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> >
> > 1b is
14.7psi.
> >
> > 1atmos is 14.5psi.
- ---
Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:58:12
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Two questions really....one about cam gears, one about TT brakes on an
NA
Hi Bob,
Jim's right, try your 17's on a 1st gen TT. If
they
don't fit and you have to get new rims anyhow, do the
BIG REDS or at
least do the 2nd gen calipers.
Be of good cheer,
John
- ---
fastmax <
fastmax@cox.net>
wrote:
> There are too many variables to know the answer to
> that
question --- with stock
> rims the 1st gen 17" won't fit over 2nd gen
brakes
> but the stock 2nd gen 17" will.
> There are two areas that
have to fit ---- the inside
> diameter and the spokes
> clearing
the calipers. About the only way to know is
> to try it ---- put your 17's
on
> a 1st gen car.
>
> Jim Berry
>
==================================================
>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Koch" <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
>
> > 2. I am also putting TT brake rotors on my NA in
> the
front, with all this
> > talk about 17" wheels I have gotten myself in
a
> worry about the calipers not
> > fitting. Is this going to be
a problem, stock TT
> calipers 92 on a 93 NA with
> > after
market 17's? I know the knucles and other
> stuff needed but I am
>
> thinking I need 18's for some reason. Also would I
> need to get TT
front SS
> > lines instead of NA SS lines?
=====
Please
respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with
Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:09:55
-0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: FPR
need? No.
No, the stock regulator works fine with one Supra
pump. Any probs some
people might see are coincidental.
It would be
marginal at holding idle pressure with 2 (two) pumps, but not
with
one.
JT
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost controller
> If you install the Supra pump without an
adjustable fuel pressure
regulator
> or an electronic fuel controller
(i.e. S-AFC) you will run rich at idle
(and
> probably WOT,
too).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:16:30
US/Central
From:
tds@brightok.netSubject: RE: Team3S: Fwd:
Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> 1 bar = 14.5 psi
> 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi
at least on this planet!
- ---------------------------------
1 bar
= 14.50377 psi to be more exact. :)
1 bar = 0.9869233 atmosphere
1
bar = 1.019716 kilogram/centimeter [squared]
1 kilogram/centimeter
[squared] = 14.22334 pounds per square inch
Personally I wish everyone
would just pick one and all use
the same. (boost controllers, gauges
etc) I wouldn't really
care which one as long as they all used the same
but we all
know there could never be a concensus ....
Also - I've used
a Greddy Profec A for a long time and I
believe it uses kilogram/centimeter
[squared] but it's too
close to bar to tell with my manual analog boost gauge
which
reads in *pounds per square inch* ! Slight creep doesn't
help
in the determination either .... makes it appear it may be bar
but
I'm not so sure .....
- -tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tdsThis
message was sent using BrightNet MailMan.
http://www.Brightok.net/mailman/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:09:44
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: boost controller
> > Nahhh, absolutely not. The
pressure is not increased at all
>
> Really? Are the 1st generation
fuel pump/injectors/rails/FPR different?
No.
> I've observed
this in person on a '94 VR-4 with the Supra pump and it's
> discussed ad
nauseam on 3SI. From what I understand, the return orifice
on
>
the stock FPR is too small and doesn't allow enough return flow to
the
tank
> with the Supra pump. Thus rail pressure is increased
and you run rich if
How much increased ?
> the ECM is reaches
the limit of its trim values to adjust closed-loop fuel
>
delivery.
I doesn't reach any limit as it sits on the zero load
value.
> At WOT, it's open-loop, so that's why I figured that
increased
> rail pressure would make you run rich (ECM using static fuel
maps based on
> 43psi + boost).
ECM uses an offset variable that is
determined during closed loop.
> Ok, perhaps that's true on some cars,
although I've seen many 3/Ss in the
> '91 to '95 range where the stripes
are very visible. If they're not,
often
> a damp cloth (water or
light cleaner) will allow you to see the stripes.
Hehe, I guess cleaned
would therefore helped i nmy case finding the right
hoses ;-)
> So
that was almost exactly what I said, only I didn't mention the H
>
connector because I thought the instructions would be simpler that way.
I
> don't think I said anything incorrect. (???)
No you didn't.
Yust the entry.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:08:36
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
Merrit,
Do you have a big ass oil cooler in mind
?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:44
AM
To:
team3s@team3s.comSubject:
Team3S: BAFMOC
As the start of the season looms, I am pondering once
again how to keep the
car cool. As we found at Heartland Park, 2nd gen cars
seem to overheat much
more than 1st gen cars.
I was peering into the
grille the other day, to where the stock oil cooler
has been relocated, and
wondered if it's time to install a BAFMOC (big ass
front-mounted oil cooler).
Seems like we could get a two ft wide oil cooler
in there. Suppose it would
help keep the car cool? What about oil pressure
problems? What about blocking
flow to the radiator?
Any thoughts on keeping our cool this
summer?
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:11:52
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
It is Alamo Motorsports.
I have it on mine and I still
over heat.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg
[mailto:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:06 AM
To:
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
BAFMOC
I thought I saw on Lucius' car where he put a FMOC (front-mounted
oil
cooler) down underneath almost where the plastic undertray is. I
can't
find the picture so I don't know if it was his car but it was
a
relocation kit from GT-Pro or Alamo or someone like that.
Rich, do
you remember what temp gauge was getting pegged? Mine was the
water
temp. I had straight antifreeze (being from the cooler climate
of
Pittsburgh, PA) and I know running 50/50 water/antifreeze or some
water
wetter would have helped but my water temp was pegged so I need a
FMIC
first before oil. Oil can get hot and doesn't degrade or lose as
much
potential cooling power as water.
Is this where the oil cooler is
on a Stealth? Mine is in the driver's
side wheelwell almost behind the
intercooler. I was told that oil temp
and water temp are similar temps
on the track most of the time. Also,
the oil pressure is a rough
estimate of the oil temp most of the time
(until it gets way out of
line). Still ... I have no idea what oil
temps I see on the
track.
Of course ... you could run up in Canada to stay
cool.
Lucius' car:
www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius3/j3-fmoc.jpgMy
car:
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/VR-4_oil_cooler.pdf-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Friday, February 22, 2002 11:44
As the start of the season looms, I
am pondering once again how to keep
the car cool. As we found at Heartland
Park, 2nd gen cars seem to
overheat much more than 1st gen cars.
I was
peering into the grille the other day, to where the stock oil
cooler has been
relocated, and wondered if it's time to install a BAFMOC
(big ass
front-mounted oil cooler). Seems like we could get a two ft
wide oil cooler
in there. Suppose it would help keep the car cool? What
about oil pressure
problems? What about blocking flow to the radiator?
Any thoughts on
keeping our cool this summer?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:12:17
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
I hope somebody will make some temperature
measurements. I'm curious about
the effects of dumping the heat from
the oil cooler into the air flowing
into the radiator. Seems like it
would make the temperature difference
across the radiator lower, meaning less
heat transfer out of the radiator.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent:
Friday, February 22, 2002 2:09 PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:20:39
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
At 01:08 PM 2/22/02 -0700, Floyd, Jim
wrote:
>Merrit,
>
> Do you have a big ass oil cooler in mind
?
>
The boys at Denny's Muffler suggested one off a Dodge truck -- they
said it was about 18 x 6 in., but couldn't remember the year or model. I suspect
it would be easy enough to find one the correct size somewhere.
Rich
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:38:21
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
At 02:12 PM 2/22/02 -0600, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
>I hope somebody will make some temperature measurements. I'm
curious about
>the effects of dumping the heat from the oil cooler into
the air flowing
>into the radiator. Seems like it would make the
temperature difference
>across the radiator lower, meaning less heat
transfer out of the radiator.
>
What I was thinking was to build a chin
spoiler out of a piece of 1/4 in. aluminum. It would span across under the front
fenders and intercoolers, and bolt to the cross member in front of the radiator
(you have to remove the bumper underpan to see whereof I speak). It would also
stick out about 4 in. in front of the bumper, and provide downforce.
Now
here's where it gets neat.
Immediately under the radiator, I'd cut a big
slot and install a stiff rubber/vinyl air dam to force air up into the radiator,
BEHIND THE BAFMOC! This way, the oil cooler will get the first shot of
air, but cool air will still come in from below.
It gets even neater.
The whole chin spoiler will be hinged in back so that I can drop it down
about an inch in the front when I get to the track. This will open up built-in
rectangular brake cooling scoops that are one inch high x 12 in. wide. Internal
channeling will force the collected air back to a 3 or 4 in. round duct that
leads directly to the rotors.
Now all I gotta do is build it.
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:49:33
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
Hey Rich, Merritt and anyone else who is having
cooling problems are your
water temps high oil temps or both? The
reason I ask is because the general
thought for me on cooling is get water
temps down first (think BFAR= Big
Fu**ing Aluminum Radiator) then get oil
temps down (BAFMOC) then get
underhood temps down (think vented hood like the
TRD one available for the
MKIV or a hood scoop)
BFAR = Bozzspeed or
Pit Road M
BAFMOC= the largest one you can find and afford
Hoods= GT-Pro
(never thought I would utter that name)
Link to good page about cooling
upgrades done to a MKIV (sorry but this the
world I cam from and they
seem to have addressed allot of these probs)
http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/index.html>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 3:38
PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Floyd, Jim';
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
>
> At 02:12 PM 2/22/02 -0600, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
> >I hope somebody will make some temperature
measurements. I'm curious
> about
> >the effects of dumping
the heat from the oil cooler into the air flowing
> >into the
radiator. Seems like it would make the temperature difference
>
>across the radiator lower, meaning less heat transfer out of the
>
radiator.
> >
> What I was thinking was to build a chin spoiler
out of a piece of 1/4 in.
> aluminum. It would span across under the front
fenders and intercoolers,
> and bolt to the cross member in front of the
radiator (you have to remove
> the bumper underpan to see whereof I
speak). It would also stick out about
> 4 in. in front of the bumper, and
provide downforce.
>
> Now here's where it gets neat.
>
> Immediately under the radiator, I'd cut a big slot and install a
stiff
> rubber/vinyl air dam to force air up into the radiator, BEHIND THE
BAFMOC!
> This way, the oil cooler will get the first shot of air, but
cool air will
> still come in from below.
>
> It gets even
neater.
>
> The whole chin spoiler will be hinged in back so that
I can drop it down
> about an inch in the front when I get to the track.
This will open up
> built-in rectangular brake cooling scoops that are one
inch high x 12 in.
> wide. Internal channeling will force the collected
air back to a 3 or 4
> in. round duct that leads directly to the rotors.
>
> Now all I gotta do is build it.
>
> Rich/slow
old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:55:52
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
I never had overheating with my '93VR4 and had only
one excursion with the
'94VR4 during a relatively cool Texas day when I was
intent on running down
a Ferrari with a poor driver. I have the rear
seal removed from my '94VR4.
I do have the splash guard extensions in the
front wheel wells replaced with
hardware cloth, which might improve underhood
temps.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Furman, Russell [SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> Sent: Friday, February
22, 2002 2:50 PM
> To:
'merritt@cedar-rapids.net'>
Cc: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
>
> Hey Rich,
Merritt and anyone else who is having cooling problems are your
> water
temps high oil temps or both? The reason I ask is because the
>
general
> thought for me on cooling is get water temps down first (think
BFAR= Big
> Fu**ing Aluminum Radiator) then get oil temps down (BAFMOC)
then get
> underhood temps down (think vented hood like the TRD one
available for the
> MKIV or a hood scoop)
>
> BFAR =
Bozzspeed or Pit Road M
> BAFMOC= the largest one you can find and
afford
> Hoods= GT-Pro (never thought I would utter that name)
>
> Link to good page about cooling upgrades done to a MKIV (sorry
but this
> the
> world I cam from and they seem to have addressed
allot of these probs)
>
http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/index.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:57:04
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Radiator
Here is your radiator solution.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/2928/-
-----Original Message-----
From: Furman, Russell
[mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:50
PM
To:
'merritt@cedar-rapids.net'Cc:
'Team 3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
Hey Rich, Merritt and anyone
else who is having cooling problems are your
water temps high oil temps or
both? The reason I ask is because the general
thought for me on cooling
is get water temps down first (think BFAR= Big
Fu**ing Aluminum Radiator)
then get oil temps down (BAFMOC) then get
underhood temps down (think vented
hood like the TRD one available for the
MKIV or a hood scoop)
BFAR =
Bozzspeed or Pit Road M
BAFMOC= the largest one you can find and
afford
Hoods= GT-Pro (never thought I would utter that name)
Link to
good page about cooling upgrades done to a MKIV (sorry but this
the
world I cam from and they seem to have addressed allot of these
probs)
http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/index.html>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
[SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 3:38
PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Floyd, Jim';
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: BAFMOC
>
> At 02:12 PM 2/22/02 -0600, Willis, Charles E.
wrote:
> >I hope somebody will make some temperature
measurements. I'm curious
> about
> >the effects of dumping
the heat from the oil cooler into the air flowing
> >into the
radiator. Seems like it would make the temperature difference
>
>across the radiator lower, meaning less heat transfer out of the
>
radiator.
> >
> What I was thinking was to build a chin spoiler
out of a piece of 1/4 in.
> aluminum. It would span across under the front
fenders and intercoolers,
> and bolt to the cross member in front of the
radiator (you have to remove
> the bumper underpan to see whereof I
speak). It would also stick out about
> 4 in. in front of the bumper, and
provide downforce.
>
> Now here's where it gets neat.
>
> Immediately under the radiator, I'd cut a big slot and install a
stiff
> rubber/vinyl air dam to force air up into the radiator, BEHIND THE
BAFMOC!
> This way, the oil cooler will get the first shot of air, but
cool air will
> still come in from below.
>
> It gets even
neater.
>
> The whole chin spoiler will be hinged in back so that
I can drop it down
> about an inch in the front when I get to the track.
This will open up
> built-in rectangular brake cooling scoops that are one
inch high x 12 in.
> wide. Internal channeling will force the collected
air back to a 3 or 4
> in. round duct that leads directly to the rotors.
>
> Now all I gotta do is build it.
>
> Rich/slow
old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:06:14
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: boost controller
> Roger, which fuel pump are you using in
your car?
Denso brown top HF
> I've seen some of
the
> symptoms that others have with the Supra pump and stock fuel
pressure
> regulator. I don't have my fuel pressure gauge hooked up
yet to determine
> if my fuel pressure is indeed rising above specs at
idle though.
Hopefully
> this weekend.
Yes do so and also watch
the O2 sensor readings. Especially at idle when the
pump only sees
9V.
The big flow fuel pumps are better because they have the ability to
provide
more flow at the higher pressure needed. We do not have the tiny DSM
fuel
pump and this is also why the pump is only at 9V below 3000 rpm. I
fully
agree that it may cause a flooding problem if one does this relay
mod,
especially if working with larger injectors where the ECU is not able
to
control properly at idle and a fuel controller is hard to tune
in.
The stock FPR is indeed very small but unless a double pump is
installed I
don't see a big problem. We'll see what you will measure at what
load. If it
really becomes that high so the ECU cannot change anymore the of
course an
AFPR should be used.
BTW, have anyone ever measured the fuel
pressure on a car with the stock
pump running at 16 psi. What was the
pressure at 16psi at 5000 rpm ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:07:14
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: BAFMOC
>Link to good page about cooling upgrades done to a
MKIV (sorry but this the
>world I cam from and they seem to have
addressed allot of these
probs)
>http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/index.html
>
Great stuff
on that page. Looks like I'm on the right track, but probably should not put the
BAFMOC up front to block the radiator. I wonder if I could mount a long narrow
one UNDER the bumper? Then it'd be a BAUBOC, eh? Or I could mount it in front,
but down low. Just take out the pan on the bottom of the grille, and set it down
in there. Hmmm...better go take another look.
Rich
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:11:49
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
I havn't read all the poste on this but you guys
better read the fine print on the
gauges you buy ---- all the Japanese
guages read in kg/cm not bar. 1 kg/cm
is not 1 bar or 14.7 psi. I haven't
done the math lately and I refuse to do it
again but It isn't
difficult.
Jim
Berry
=================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Cc:
"Tom Terflinger" <
terflit@hotmail.com>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, February 22, 2002 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs.
Boost
> *heh*
>
> Thanks. The arguments gon on so
many times..I cant even recall.
>
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Willis,
Charles E. wrote:
>
> > nope.
> > 1 bar = 14.5
psi
> > 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi at least on this planet!
> >
> >
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictA.html>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Geoff
Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > > Sent: Friday,
February 22, 2002 12:38 PM
> > > To: Tom Terflinger
> >
> Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st> >
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
> > >
> >
> 1b is 14.7psi.
> > >
> > > 1atmos is
14.5psi.
>
> ---
> Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:10:15
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BAFMOC
You overheat the oil temperature ? What ares the temps
you read ?
For sure the postion of the oil cooler behind the left IC
isn't as good as
it could be. I think I will place some temp probes infront
of it this
summer.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch> It is Alamo
Motorsports.
> I have it on mine and I still over heat.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:17:00
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fwd: Re: Bar Vs. Boost
As bar and kg/cm2 are that close
together we often say "bar" and really mean
"kg/cm2" (like displayed on the
DSBC). So we just say that the max boost is
1 bar for a mild modified
car.
The problem with different measures is the same with miles (and even
nautic
miles) and meters as well as PS, hp and bhp (and even kW). Maybe ISO
will
sometimes bring up some worldwide standards.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch> > 1 bar = 14.5
psi
> > 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi at least on this
planet!
>
> ---------------------------------
> 1 bar =
14.50377 psi to be more exact. :)
>
> 1 bar = 0.9869233
atmosphere
>
> 1 bar = 1.019716 kilogram/centimeter
[squared]
>
> 1 kilogram/centimeter [squared] = 14.22334 pounds per
square inch
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:21:28
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Bar vs. kg/cm^2
Wow... answering my own post... is that like
talking to yourself?
These results checked simultaneously against a
mechanical and electronic
GReddy boost gauge. These gauges are in
kg/cm^2 (or technical atmospheres
[atm]). 1 kg/cm^2 = 1 atm (technical)
= 14.22psi. Car was not running and
a hand-pump was connected to the
appropriate vacuum line.
First, the PRofec seems to truncate the pressure
reading on its
one-decimal-place display. Thus 0.7000-0.7999 of actual
pressure would read
"0.7" on the display. 0.8000 to 0.8999 would
produce a "0.8 reading" on the
display.
Second, the display on the
PRofec reads a hair on the low side (compared to
the above gauges), thus I
suspect that the Profec actually reads out bar and
not kg/cm^2. Granted
this is a very small amount of difference (under
0.3psi at 1.0bar), but if
you're pushing things to the limits...
Actually, I think the truncation
issue is pretty significant as this can
make a 1.5psi difference in what
boost you're actually running.
YMMV
- --Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:27:43
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
BAFMOC
Has anyone else had an overheating problem other than Rich
????
I've been to a batch of track events and had only one overheat
event
which I could not recreate after I slowed down for a ½ lap.
At
Thunderhill we had 4 3S cars on a 100+º day and nobody complained
of
overheating [ of the cars that is ].
If you're going to make a fix then
fix the water not the oil --- there are
aluminum aftermarket radiators that
will fit, or at least I've seen posts
that claim it's true.
Rich ----
I still contend they you're missing some of the undertrays
that direct air up
into the radiator from below. I didn't take any pictures
as I said I would
but there should be an opening just in front of the
radiator on the bottom of
the car that allows air up into the
radiator.
Jim
Berry
======================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
>
Hey Rich, Merritt and anyone else who is having cooling problems are
your
> water temps high oil temps or both? The reason I ask is
because the general
> thought for me on cooling is get water temps down
first (think BFAR= Big
> Fu**ing Aluminum Radiator) then get oil temps
down (BAFMOC) then get
> underhood temps down (think vented hood like the
TRD one available for the
> MKIV or a hood scoop)
>
> BFAR =
Bozzspeed or Pit Road M
> BAFMOC= the largest one you can find and
afford
> Hoods= GT-Pro (never thought I would utter that
name)
>
> Link to good page about cooling upgrades done to a
MKIV (sorry but this the
> world I cam from and they seem to have
addressed allot of these probs)
>
http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/index.html***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:41:48
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BAFMOC
>Rich ---- I still contend they you're missing some
of the undertrays
>that direct air up into the radiator from below. I
didn't take any pictures
>as I said I would but there should be an opening
just in front of the
>radiator on the bottom of the car that allows air up
into the radiator.
I have had overheating problems from day one, from the
time it was completely stock with all undertrays in place to today, with all of
them gone.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:06:14
+0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BAFMOC
> Has anyone else had an overheating problem other
than Rich ????
When speaking of overheating we all speak of the water get
boiled and not
overheating the oil right ?
I killed two engines on the
dyno due to overheating. Letting off the gas
when the meter started to go top
was too late, #3 already had a hole in its
piston. The cause was definitely
too small cooling fans infront the car.
Fortunately, I never had these
problems on my car and I don't know if water
wetter does anything good to it
as well as running 5W60 racing oil. Even on
a 33°C day on the school track
with accellerating heavy and then the car
sitting around including running
the AC the meter showed zero change. Also I
was lucky and never had any moves
on any dynos I ran the car on.
> If you're going to make a fix then
fix the water not the oil --- there are
> aluminum aftermarket radiators
that will fit, or at least I've seen posts
> that claim it's
true.
I fully agree ! Hmm, if one of our cars is experiencing cooling
problems
then I'd point to the water pump not working well at first. Then a
clogged
up radiator or cooling paths can be another cause.
> Rich
---- I still contend they you're missing some of the undertrays
> that
direct air up into the radiator from below. I didn't take
any
pictures
> as I said I would but there should be an opening just in
front of the
> radiator on the bottom of the car that allows air up into
the radiator.
No, my car is fully closed and this is a must ! Otherwise
fresh air could go
down away from the radiator. In fact there is a "channel
frame" around the
radiator that tries to channel all air trhough the finns.
Here's a pic
:http://www.rtec.ch/Tank_2.jpg Under my car there are only the
small
openings to access the AA parts. There are two large square-sized
openings
with covers too and for additional cooling of the oil cooler I'd
suppose to
run a large piping to the cooler from there. May help to reduce
the hot air
from the IC traveling to it.
I know that Luis Miguel from
Spain has reported high oil temperatures in
traffic. He installed two large
PC fans (from Papst, Germany) behind it.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:18:02
-0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject:
Team3S: BAFMOC - fans
This guys has larger fans too.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/2928/radiator.htm-
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Gerl
[mailto:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 3:06 PM
To:
'Team 3S'
Subject: Re: Team3S: BAFMOC
> Has anyone else had an
overheating problem other than Rich ????
When speaking of overheating we
all speak of the water get boiled and not
overheating the oil right
?
I killed two engines on the dyno due to overheating. Letting off the
gas
when the meter started to go top was too late, #3 already had a hole in
its
piston. The cause was definitely too small cooling fans infront the
car.
Fortunately, I never had these problems on my car and I don't know
if water
wetter does anything good to it as well as running 5W60 racing oil.
Even on
a 33°C day on the school track with accellerating heavy and then the
car
sitting around including running the AC the meter showed zero change.
Also I
was lucky and never had any moves on any dynos I ran the car
on.
> If you're going to make a fix then fix the water not the oil ---
there are
> aluminum aftermarket radiators that will fit, or at least I've
seen posts
> that claim it's true.
I fully agree ! Hmm, if one of
our cars is experiencing cooling problems
then I'd point to the water pump
not working well at first. Then a clogged
up radiator or cooling paths can be
another cause.
> Rich ---- I still contend they you're missing some of
the undertrays
> that direct air up into the radiator from below. I didn't
take any
pictures
> as I said I would but there should be an opening
just in front of the
> radiator on the bottom of the car that allows air
up into the radiator.
No, my car is fully closed and this is a must !
Otherwise fresh air could go
down away from the radiator. In fact there is a
"channel frame" around the
radiator that tries to channel all air trhough the
finns. Here's a pic
:http://www.rtec.ch/Tank_2.jpg Under my car there are
only the small
openings to access the AA parts. There are two large
square-sized openings
with covers too and for additional cooling of the oil
cooler I'd suppose to
run a large piping to the cooler from there. May help
to reduce the hot air
from the IC traveling to it.
I know that Luis
Miguel from Spain has reported high oil temperatures in
traffic. He installed
two large PC fans (from Papst, Germany) behind it.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
www.rtec.ch
