Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, January 15
2002 Volume 01 : Number
726
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:12:10 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
Why not just use recycled oil that's real
cheap? (then you can change it
even more often!)
Also, you are
exagerrating the oil per change by 1/2 quart - I have NEVER
needed to add
more than 4 quarts per change on either the 1st gen or 2nd gen
VR4.
3K
miles equates to about 3 months driving - that's 4 oil changes a year so
$150
per year: BFD.
I'm still changing mine between each event, about every 2
mos. ANybody stil
want my waste oil? It looks pretty crappy when
it comes out.
Chuck Willis
Why do you think frequent oil and
filter changes are a bad thing? It's
basically the ONLY thing required
by major manufacturers' warranties. Why
would they think it's a good
thing?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:31
PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
> That's 24 oil
changes.
> 12 oil filter changes.
> About 4.5 quarts per
change.
> About $7 per quart.
> About $8 per filter.
> $31.5
in oil per change.
> $756.00 in oil changes.
> $96.00 in oil filter
changes.
> For a total of $852.
>
> :)
>
>
Granted those are guesses at the numbers as price per quart goes up
>
after 5 years and a case is cheaper than by-the-bottle so about
>
$900-$1,000 in oil changes. That's downright CHEAP in my mind for
some
> peace of mind. Cut back oil changes to every 6,000 miles and
the total
> above is only $416 or about $450-$500. Still cheap for
72,000 miles of
> service.
>
> Now the price of a $9 quart of
synthetic vs. $7.50 blend of $5 of normal
> stuff doesn't seem so bad
looking at the long run.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Shelat
> Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:58
>
> Ever since I bought the
car, (30k miles) it has had Mobil 1 synthetic
> changed at every 3k
miles. The car has 102,000 miles with original
> turbos.
> If
I kept the oil in any longer, I don't think it would protect the
>
motor
> well since it always smells like gas and the viscosity feels like
it is
> gone. I never lose more then 1 quart btwn changes. The
oil pressure
> incidentally only seems to read in the good area on the
second 3000 with
> the
> same filter. The manual recommends
changes at 5k and 10k for the oil
> and
> filter respectively, so
sometimes I keep the filter in for 10k. I am
> going
> to do a
compression test one of these weekends to see how shes
>
doing--still
> rips off 12s though!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:07:30
-0500
From: "Berrios, Victor L CIV" <
VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Clutch
Hi Gil:
Welcome to the VR-4 world.
Jeff's
site has a lot of info. on the Red line oil.
I did my transaxle oil
change back in October (21K only) and notice the
difference right away.
Smooth shifting from there on. I used a 50/50 mix.
Here is the
link:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/0-frames.htmVictor
'96
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002
3:01 PM
To: 'Gil Gomes';
team3s@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
Clutch
I bet you are not running RedLine transaxle oil. The
difficulty shifting
when cold goes away with the proper RedLine oil.
Don't recall whether it is
MT90, MTL, or Shockproof, but I'm sure someone
else will chime in ... (FAQ)
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Gil Gomes [SMTP:gil@3kgt.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:19
PM
> To:
team3s@team3s.com>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch
>
>
> I just bought a '96 VR4...
I'vef noticed over the past several days
> that it's nearly impossible to
shift when the car is cold. It takes
> around 3-4 minutes for it to
warm up enough to shift properly.
> Tonight I noticed a "THUNK" sound when
I depressed the clutch
> when in gear, preparatory to shifting... When the
car warmed up..
> the noise disappeared. I'm concerned this might be
a throw out
> bearing issue... Any ideas?
>
>
Thanx...
> -Gil
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:08:47
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Motor oil type
You slackers. I just put on 26.6k miles this
last year. That would be
over 8 oil changes and about $250 per
year. =)
And if YOU sit and wait for every last drop of oil to get
out of the can
(I don't) then you save your half quart. I probably
leave a few
teaspoons in there since it isn't worth the wait. That
isn't a half
quart, but use some on the filter, spill some (or your helper
spills
some before getting it in), and you have your half quart.
But I
think the majority view is that frequent oil change is definitely
a good
thing for the car.
No, I don't want your waste oil, Chuck. Remember
that I used all but 2
bottles of a case of Motul 600 (12 bottles I think in a
case from
Mohler) at the track. That was about $90 in brake
fluid. Anyone want
my waste brake fluid? It is perfectly good
looking since I do about a
bottle or so per event. Yes we all know I
need to change that area of
the track sessions.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4 and looking for a record mileage year (over 30k planned)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002
10:12
To:
'dschilberg@pobox.com';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
Why not just use recycled oil that's real
cheap? (then you can change it
even more often!)
Also, you are
exagerrating the oil per change by 1/2 quart - I have
NEVER
needed to add
more than 4 quarts per change on either the 1st gen or
2nd
gen
VR4.
3K miles equates to about 3 months driving - that's 4
oil changes a year
so
$150 per year: BFD.
I'm still changing mine
between each event, about every 2 mos. ANybody
stil
want my waste
oil? It looks pretty crappy when it comes out.
Chuck
Willis
Why do you think frequent oil and filter changes are a bad
thing? It's
basically the ONLY thing required by major manufacturers'
warranties.
Why
would they think it's a good thing?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:36:08
-0800
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
> No, the stock ECU is
doing this. Again the 6500 example with a sum of 11
> (decreasing)
resulted in a timing of 38° advance (note : this are datalog
> figures and
are only a ballpark as TMO made it for 4 bangers)
>
> Roger
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
My stock ECU doesn't react nearly fast enough. I have seen
some datalogs
where knock is increasing and timing isn't pulled fast enough
to have knock
stop increasing. Also, lets not forget that pulling
timing is a commong way
to run more boost just as some choose a lower
compression ratio - both can
prevent knock at higher boost levels. I
need to revisit some datalogs and
see timing with my stock injectors compared
to the 720s and the ARC2.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:01:30
-0600
From: Kar-Yeong Teoh <
karyeong@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Motor oil type
I wonder where you get your oil. I got my Mobil 1
10-30 from Walmart for
$4.08 per quart. That's less than $20 per oil
change.
Kar-Yeong Teoh
95 RT/TT
Darren Schilberg
wrote:
>You slackers. I just put on 26.6k miles this last
year. That would be
>over 8 oil changes and about $250 per
year. =)
>
>And if YOU sit and wait for every last drop of oil
to get out of the can
>(I don't) then you save your half quart. I
probably leave a few
>teaspoons in there since it isn't worth the
wait. That isn't a half
>quart, but use some on the filter, spill
some (or your helper spills
>some before getting it in), and you have your
half quart.
>
>But I think the majority view is that frequent oil
change is definitely
>a good thing for the car.
>
>No, I don't
want your waste oil, Chuck. Remember that I used all but 2
>bottles
of a case of Motul 600 (12 bottles I think in a case from
>Mohler) at the
track. That was about $90 in brake fluid. Anyone want
>my
waste brake fluid? It is perfectly good looking since I do about
a
>bottle or so per event. Yes we all know I need to change that
area of
>the track sessions.
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4 and
looking for a record mileage year (over 30k
planned)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Willis, Charles
E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
>Sent: Monday, January
14, 2002 10:12
>To:
'dschilberg@pobox.com';
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
>Why not just use recycled oil that's
real cheap? (then you can change it
>even more
often!)
>
>Also, you are exagerrating the oil per change by 1/2
quart - I have
>NEVER
>needed to add more than 4 quarts per change
on either the 1st gen or 2nd
>gen
>VR4.
>
>3K miles
equates to about 3 months driving - that's 4 oil changes a
year
>so
>$150 per year: BFD.
>
>I'm still changing mine
between each event, about every 2 mos. ANybody
>stil
>want my
waste oil? It looks pretty crappy when it comes out.
>
>Chuck
Willis
>
>Why do you think frequent oil and filter changes are a bad
thing? It's
>basically the ONLY thing required by major
manufacturers' warranties.
>Why
>would they think it's a good
thing?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:06:07
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Kar-Yeong Teoh [SMTP:karyeong@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002
12:02 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
> I wonder where you get your
oil. I got my Mobil 1 10-30 from Walmart for
> $4.08 per quart. That's
less than $20 per oil change.
>
[Willis, Charles E.] = not if
you put the first four quarts in
before you remember to put the plug back in!
(:>)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:09:13
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Motor oil type
Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and
that prices "MAY BE LESS IF
PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART AT A
TIME."
It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list for
oil.
Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil 1 full synthetic
costs
$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is generally $6, $8, $10. If
you found
FULL SYNTHETIC for that price then let Geoff Mohler know so we can
start
buying it on the list for that price.
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Kar-Yeong Teoh
Sent: Monday,
January 14, 2002 13:02
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
I wonder where you get your oil. I got my
Mobil 1 10-30 from Walmart for
$4.08 per quart. That's less than $20 per
oil change.
Kar-Yeong Teoh
95 RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:16:12
-0600
From: Kar-Yeong Teoh <
karyeong@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Motor oil type
I just got the oil 2 days back. Mobil 1
Tri-Synthetic Forumla 10W-30. It
says Fully Synthetic Motor Oil on the box,
and yes, it's $4.08 a bottle,
well, you can add another 6% for Ohio state
tax. :)
I always thought Wal-Mart sells their oil the same price across
the
states, maybe I'm wrong. But my 4 bottles for $17.30 including tax is
pretty sweet. Sometimes they have 5 quart bottles, and those were only
around $20.
Kar-Yeong
95 RT/TT
Darren Schilberg
wrote:
>Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and that prices
"MAY BE LESS IF
>PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART AT A
TIME."
>
>It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list for
oil.
>
>Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil 1 full
synthetic costs
>$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is generally $6, $8,
$10. If you found
>FULL SYNTHETIC for that price then let Geoff
Mohler know so we can start
>buying it on the list for that
price.
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
>Of Kar-Yeong Teoh
>Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 13:02
>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
>I wonder where you get your oil. I got
my Mobil 1 10-30 from Walmart for
>
>$4.08 per quart. That's less
than $20 per oil change.
>
>Kar-Yeong Teoh
>95
RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:39:32
-0600
From:
overclck@ies.net (Cody
Graham)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil type
I buy mine for the same
from Wal-Mart, O'Reilly's, Napa, etc.
Was $3.97 for a while too.
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Kar-Yeong Teoh
Sent: Monday,
January 14, 2002 12:16 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
I just got the oil 2 days back. Mobil 1
Tri-Synthetic Forumla 10W-30. It
says Fully Synthetic Motor Oil on the
box, and yes, it's $4.08 a bottle,
well, you can add another 6% for Ohio
state tax. :)
I always thought Wal-Mart sells their oil the same price
across the
states, maybe I'm wrong. But my 4 bottles for $17.30 including
tax is
pretty sweet. Sometimes they have 5 quart bottles, and those were
only
around $20.
Kar-Yeong
95 RT/TT
Darren Schilberg
wrote:
>Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and that prices
"MAY BE LESS
IF
>PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART AT A
TIME."
>
>It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list for
oil.
>
>Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil 1 full
synthetic costs
>$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is generally $6, $8,
$10. If you found
>FULL SYNTHETIC for that price then let Geoff
Mohler know so we can
start
>buying it on the list for that
price.
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
Behalf
>Of Kar-Yeong
Teoh
>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 13:02
>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
>I wonder where you get your oil. I got
my Mobil 1 10-30 from Walmart
for
>
>$4.08 per quart. That's less
than $20 per oil change.
>
>Kar-Yeong Teoh
>95
RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:40:06
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
Chuckling ... Wal-Mart special, 5-quart bottle
of full synthetic
Mobil 1 10W30 Motor Oil for about $17. That's about $3.40
per quart.
I have about 6 of these left, otherwise I would try one of these
oils
that are even better than Mobil 1. Of course, I only drive about
5K
miles a year in the Stealth. That's 3 oil changes - approximately.
:)
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- ---
Kar-Yeong Teoh <
karyeong@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I
just got the oil 2 days back. Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Forumla
> 10W-30. It
> says Fully Synthetic Motor Oil on the box, and yes, it's $4.08
a
> bottle,
> well, you can add another 6% for Ohio state tax.
:)
>
> I always thought Wal-Mart sells their oil the same price
across the
>
> states, maybe I'm wrong. But my 4 bottles for $17.30
including tax
> is
> pretty sweet. Sometimes they have 5 quart
bottles, and those were
> only
> around $20.
>
>
Kar-Yeong
> 95 RT/TT
>
> Darren Schilberg wrote:
>
> >Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and that prices "MAY
BE
> LESS IF
> >PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART AT A
TIME."
> >
> >It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list for
oil.
> >
> >Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil 1
full synthetic
> costs
> >$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is
generally $6, $8, $10. If you
> found
> >FULL SYNTHETIC for
that price then let Geoff Mohler know so we can
> start
> >buying
it on the list for that price.
> >
> >--Flash!
>
>1995 VR-4
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
>
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
> Behalf
> >Of Kar-Yeong
Teoh
> >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 13:02
> >To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
> >
> >I wonder where
you get your oil. I got my Mobil 1 10-30 from
> Walmart for
>
>
> >$4.08 per quart. That's less than $20 per oil change.
>
>
> >Kar-Yeong Teoh
> >95 RT/TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:44:21
-0800
From: "ek2mfg" <
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
I know in Seattle that mobile 1 is $5.xx for a
quart but if you go to
costo(wherehouse shopping) you can 6 for 19.99 I would
gladly buy it
in bulk if you guys want to pay 8-10 a quart for it :) hell I
will
even give a board discount and sell it for 6.50 a quart. K&N
oil
filters are 9.99 and you can find 1.00 coupons just about
anywhere.
Stock filters are about 7-8 at the dealer. Bigmacs and whoppers
are
about 1-2 bucks and if you shop around enough you can get 10 pack
of
coolaid mix for $1. A burrito off the gutt-truck is 2.00. I find
it
funny how the big guns spend so much time bickering about
frivilous
things and then slam on the "not-so-in-people" to make
themselves
sound smart. I put mobile 1 in my car with 110k on the odometer
and
honestly I didn't like the ticking that followed...( a big diff
from
before)..My motor is too old, loose and worn for the
thinner
engineered oils. Poured some Kendall 10-40 in and some prolong
(don't
laugh) and the ticking is gone and does not return at idle. When
I
get my motor rebuilt then I will use the good stuff...until then I
doubt
it will see my engine again. JMHO
can we move on?
bobk.
-
---- Original Message ----
From:
karyeong@yahoo.comTo:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:16:12 -0600
>I
just got the oil 2 days back. Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Forumla
>10W-30. It
>says Fully Synthetic Motor Oil on the box, and yes, it's $4.08 a
>bottle,
>well, you can add another 6% for Ohio state tax.
:)
>
>I always thought Wal-Mart sells their oil the same price
across the
>states, maybe I'm wrong. But my 4 bottles for $17.30
including tax
>is
>pretty sweet. Sometimes they have 5 quart
bottles, and those were
>only
>around
$20.
>
>Kar-Yeong
>95 RT/TT
>
>Darren Schilberg
wrote:
>
>>Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and that
prices "MAY BE
>LESS IF
>>PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART
AT A TIME."
>>
>>It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list
for oil.
>>
>>Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil
1 full synthetic
>costs
>>$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is
generally $6, $8, $10. If you
>found
>>FULL SYNTHETIC for
that price then let Geoff Mohler know so we can
>start
>>buying
it on the list for that price.
>>
>>--Flash!
>>1995
VR-4
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
>Behalf
>>Of Kar-Yeong
Teoh
>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 13:02
>>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
>>
>>I wonder where you get your
oil. I got my Mobil 1 10-30 from
>Walmart
for
>>
>>$4.08 per quart. That's less than $20 per oil
change.
>>
>>Kar-Yeong Teoh
>>95
RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:56:26
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: head
gasket
Among the things under consideration for my rebuild [ 368's, 720',
etc.etc.]
is the head gasket --- I've heard very little in the way of
problems with the
stock gasket, does anyone have a comment on possible
improvement.
Metal or O-ring come to mind.
Along the same line how
about head bolts sets --- I can't find an ARP set, is
there any reason to
look around. A higher tensile strength bolt with additional
torque might not
hurt --- assuming it didn't distort the heads or
block.
Jim
Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:12:07
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Rebuild progress
So I finally was able to spend some serious time
working on my motor now
that all the machining work is done...
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/waterpump.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/fixedhead.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/headson.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/timingset.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/front.jpgFun
stuff... I figure another 3-4 hours of cleaning, tweaking
and
reassembly work and it'll be ready to drop back into the car. Need
to work
on the exhaust manifolds and turbos and get the alternator and a few
belt
tensioners reinstalled and it'll be ready to go back in.
On the
timing picture it looks like some of the marks are misaligned on the
front
bank cam gears, but its just a trick of the camera perspective.
I
guarantee they are perfectly aligned. ;-)
On the last picture
you can see the only currently quick toys in my garage -
my Polaris XCR-800
and my fiance's Arctic Cat ZL-600 snowmobile. ;-) I may
have to
dragrace the Polaris next year for fun - there's hardly any snow
around here
this season!
I hope not too many of you have to rebuild your
motors. There isn't a lot
of fun involved. :-( The best
advice I could give is to keep parts for
certain components together in their
own plastic baggies and label the bags.
It helps a lot during reassembly -
there's a lot of bolts I probably
wouldn't have remembered where they go
without the baggies.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:17:04
-0800
From: Damon Rachell <
damonr@mefas.com>
Subject: Team3S: Sway
bar upgrade update...
Here's little update on the sway bar
upgrades. Here's the link from
3si.org.
http://www.3si.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=e27103a16b2d01c7d4debc01335607f2&threadid=60650&perpage=15&pagenumber=1Damon
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:41:54
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Big
Black brakes
I find your Big Reds puny :)
Heh...just
kidding. In all seriousness, I need some info on the 928 S4 Big
Black
calipers. I just won a set off Ebay and I need to know who to
contact
for brackets and the remainder of the hardware. If anyone knows
if these
will fit with 1st gen Stealth TT rims, I'd like to hear about
it. Thanks.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:47:49
-0500
From: "Aamer" <
aamer.mail@verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
A derivative of speed WRT
to time would simply be acceleration, correct?
If so, then that would give
you a number with the units Miles/Hour^2 or
Km/Hour^2.
Exactly what do
you do after this to calculuate a standard torque
measurement?
Sorry
if I'm missing something here....
Thanks.
Aamer Abbas
'94
3000GT (DOHC -- Naturally Aspirated)
email:
aamer@thepentagon.comfax: (707)
982-8817 [add +1 country code if faxing from outside the USA]
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
Sent: Sunday,
January 13, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
> Maybe Road Dyno
http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm.
But if
> you have any kind of datalogging you can easily extract wheel
torque from
> vehicle acceleration data. Just calculate a derivative of
the speed WRT
time.
>
> Philip
>
> At 05:31 PM
01/13/02, Roger Gerl wrote:
> > > It only has four or five
wires
> > > but the instructions are in Japanese.
>
>
> >Read the stock manual and connect it in between the ignition
control
wire.
> >Goooood luck .... and how do you tune it in
??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:09:57
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@mvplabels.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Big Black brakes
> I find your Big Reds puny :)
> Heh...just
kidding. In all seriousness, I need some info on the 928 S4
Big Black
calipers. I just won a set off Ebay and I need to know who to
contact
for brackets and the remainder of the hardware. If anyone knows
if
these will fit with 1st gen Stealth TT rims, I'd like to hear about
it.
Thanks.
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
-
--------------------------
A good start is our FAQ page on brake upgrades
by Ken Middaugh:
www.Team3S.com/FAQbrakeupgr.htmThere's
a link to Terry Gosse at KVR, and you can take it from
there...
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:12:03
-0500
From: "Aamer" <
aamer.mail@verizon.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Off Topic: Dynamically Variable Compression Ratios
Sorry this is
completely off topic, but it's really interesting.
I understand variable
compression engines have been discussed in theory for
quite a while now, but
Saab has a design which could be available in the
near future (I've heard a
year or two from some people). I'm sure many of
you have already read about
this, but for those who haven't, this is a very
interesting link:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/innovations/articles/43027/article.htmlAamer
Abbas
'94 3000GT (DOHC -- Naturally Aspirated)
email:
aamer@thepentagon.comfax: (707)
982-8817 [add +1 country code if faxing from outside the USA]
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:14:15
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
>> I did not speak of any
theory, many of us know what we have read.
WTF?
me: Sunday, January 13,
2002 6:10 AM
"Less air flow (less engine load) at a given RPM usually
means more
advance .."
Roger Gerl: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:58
PM
"Is this true ? Why do you know ? Isn't it just a theory ?"
Me:
Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:55 PM
"A theory? You are joking, correct?".
Plus I supply two paragraphs
of documentation.
Roger Gerl: Sunday, January
13, 2002 6:28 PM
"I did not speak of any theory ..."
Roger, go
play games with someone else.
> You say that if load is less then
timing is advanced more.
> But on the datalogs, the timing advance rises
at higher rpm
> and obiously load is higher.
Timing generally
advances as RPM increases. I am not sure load
"obviously" increases with
RPM. Why should it? In fact, if load can
be described as air flow divided by
RPM, then with reduced VE at
higher RPM, load may decrease. Add boost changes
into the mix and
load can easily decrease with RPM.
Anyway, the
combustion event takes about the same amount of time
regardless of RPM. So
the event must begin a little earlier (and
timing advances) as RPM increase
so that peak cylinder pressures
occur at the optimal part of the stroke.
There are many processes
occuring that are affecting timing advance. RPM and
airflow (load)
are only two.
Other Team3S members:
I have placed
images of my datalogs with interpretations plus the
logs themselves with XLS
versions on the internet. Anybody that is
interested can look at them and
download them.
Injector comparison:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-tmo1.htm1/4
mile log:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-tmo2.htmThose
of you with logs that show that timing does not increase when
using larger
injectors with air flow signal conditioners and stock
ECMs, please place your
logs where we all can take a look. Don't tell
us your ideas and theories.
Show us evidence.
Those that are interested, can look at my "Injector
Comparison" log
to see that timing values are higher at all RPM under WOT
using
larger injectors and an ARC2.
Jeff "show me the logs" Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/ :)
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
I did not speak of any theory, many of us know what we have
read.
I do not have the time to write that much ;-)
Simple
question : Why is my timing about the same with 360cc and with
720cc
injectors at the same boost level ? How is the TPS involved in
this calc ?
It's one signal we change (besides of constants) but
others stay the same. Of
course we make the ECU think but have a look
at the ignition tables. I
advanced them in the lower region to get
more tourque as they looked almost
the same as in the upper region.
On the x-axis is rpm and on y-axis load
calculated by air flow signal
(we have tweaked) and TPS. But do you know how
much the air-signal
really counts here ? We know it makes significant
difference on the
fuel map for the injector signal.
One last comment
(I will not be on my PC for the next days) :
> As the ARC2 reduces the
air flow signal from the actual
> amount, the ECM thinks that engine load
is less and so air-fuel
> mixture density (not A/F) is less and so timing
needs to be
increased
> due to a slower burn speed. The IPW (the fuel
injector on time) is
> much less for larger injectors, an indication that
air flow signal
> has been reduced.
You say that if load is less
then timing is advanced more. But on the
datalogs, the timing advance rises
at higher rpm and obiously load is
higher. But this is the opposite you are
saying.
Maybe we better isolate an rpm, let's say 6000 rpm. With 360cc
under
full load (WOT) timing is 35° advanced (TMO value). With 720cc
the
airflow signal is half and therefore the ECU thinks load is
smaller.
What timing advance should I see now ?
And what if the
ignition system disregards the airflow signal at WOT
(not for fuel of course)
? It only watches rpm and TPS or uses the
airflow value as only a little
part. Who knows for sure ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:00:36
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Motor oil type
Well I'm stunned that here in Pittsburgh we aren't
getting the Wal-Mart
prices. We are not in Bentonville, AR though so
shipping is added too.
I'll look around and see what SAM's Club, Pep Boys,
Advanced Autoparts,
Napa, etc. have for this. Maybe someone should buy
a 55-gallon drum of
the stuff and repackage it for all of us. I'm
in.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From:
Kar-Yeong Teoh
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 13:16
I just got
the oil 2 days back. Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Forumla 10W-30. It
says Fully
Synthetic Motor Oil on the box, and yes, it's $4.08 a bottle,
well, you
can add another 6% for Ohio state tax. :)
I always thought Wal-Mart sells
their oil the same price across the
states, maybe I'm wrong. But my 4
bottles for $17.30 including tax is
pretty sweet. Sometimes they have 5
quart bottles, and those were only
around $20.
Kar-Yeong
95
RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:22:32
-0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Big Black brakes
You can also contact our own Brad
Bedell.
I believe the Big Blacks mount "backwards" to the Big Reds so
the
bracket for the Big Reds are actually going to need to be reversed.
If
you look at the 928 then the caliper is on the side of the rotor
that
faces the rear instead of the front ... at least ... that's what
I
remember.
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/BigReds_install.htmlI'm
all confused now since I have seen all sorts of 911 cars with
calipers on the
front side of their rotors as well as on the rear of the
rotor so I don't
know if they switched and if so in what year.
And also make sure that the
widest gap that the pistons open in the Big
Blacks, plus twice the brake pad
thickness allows enough room for the
rotor to be inserted between them or
else you will need to file off some
pad material first. I think someone
did a mod of big thick pads one
time and found out the hard way.
Also
not that the Big Blacks, as well as the Big Reds, both have total
piston
areas less than that of the stock VR-4 calipers.
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/Brake_piston_calculations.htmI'll
have to see what I can find on the Big Blacks and their mounting.
I know you
can search the archives for some chatter about it ... maybe a
year ago or a
little while longer than that.
What price did you win them for? I
know the stock Big Black upgrade is
about $2,100 or so with all the
hardware. I think calipers or remfg
calipers can be had for $500-$800
but remember that the last thing you
do NOT want going through your head at
140 mph approaching a 90-degree
turn is, "Remember that these are the remfg
and cheaper calipers."
<grin>
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 17:10
A good start is our FAQ page on
brake upgrades by Ken Middaugh:
www.Team3S.com/FAQbrakeupgr.htmThere's
a link to Terry Gosse at KVR, and you can take it from there...
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:38:55
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Motor oil type
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, January 14, 2002 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Motor oil
type
>Chuckling ... Wal-Mart special, 5-quart bottle of full
synthetic
>Mobil 1 10W30 Motor Oil for about $17. That's about $3.40 per
quart.
>I have about 6 of these left, otherwise I would try one of these
oils
>that are even better than Mobil 1. Of course, I only drive about
5K
>miles a year in the Stealth. That's 3 oil changes - approximately.
:)
-
------------------------------------------------------------------
$17.88
here ... Don't you love the handle they put on those guys?!
You should get
bulk rate. Now if only they (Walmart) sold decent
oil filters.
One day I am determined to find a larger capacity
quality filter that will
fit our cars. You should see the monsters
we use on our
Fbodies!
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:38:34
-0500
From: "Gil Gomes" <
gil@3kgt.com>
Subject: Team3S: HKS
SSBOV
This is my first VR4... I'm not even sure I
should be asking
these questions on this list... but. I installed a
K&N FIPK
and an HKS SSBOV today. The engine light came on
and
stayed on. It hunted something fierce at idle and when I took
it out of the driveway, down the street... it made this weird
screaming
sound.
I took of the HKS, reinstalled the
K&N... and all is well.
Anybody have any idea what the heck that's
all about? Any
help would be mucho appreciated....
Thanx....
And if this post doesn't belong here... let me know....
again....
Thanx
- -Gil
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:49:58
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
head gasket
Another aspect of my rebuild to worry about --- head
bolts.
According to those that know [ ARP ] stronger head bolts are
a good thing.
That may or may not be true but if I'm building a car for 25+
psi of boost
it sure as hell can't hurt.
The issue is --- they don't
make a kit for out cars so I'd have to provide the
information for the high
tensile studs --- they recommend studs over bolts.
In addition they
recommend measuring the stretch of the stud rather than
using a torque value
--- too many variables in torque --- lubrication, material
differences, dirty
threads, inaccurate wrenches etc etc.
Any info on bolt dimensions --- I
think it's 8 bolts per head, anybody know
the pich and length of the
bolt.
Has anybody looked into these issues --- I can't believe I'm the
first to want
to use ARP head bolts [ sorry, studs ].
Phillips
comments on head distortion is an issue also [ I see you work for
Chrysler
--- any tech help from your end
]
Jim
Berry
===============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
To:
Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
Sent: Monday, January
14, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: head gasket
> A higher
head bolt torque may hurt valve seat roundness on certain engines.
> If
you want to experiment with this, then I recommend performing a leakdown
>
test after head installation and watching leak rate out of intake and
>
exhaust ports.
>
> Philip
>
> "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> >A
higher tensile strength bolt with additional
> >torque might not hurt
--- assuming it didn't distort the heads or block.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:54:22
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: head gasket
The bolts are 12mm X 1.25p
Length is 114mm
(including the bolt head)
Bolt head Dia. 18mm
8 per head
I think
the clearance is an issue. The stock bolts barely clear the cams as
they
slide into the holes, and they are "small" allen heads.
If the ARP 12pt nuts
were much bigger in diameter than the stock bolt
heads, you might have to
install the cams after the heads.
Wayne
At 05:49 PM 1/14/02 -0800,
Jim Berry wrote:
>The issue is --- they don't make a kit for out cars
so I'd have to provide the
>information for the high tensile studs
--- they recommend studs over bolts.
>In addition they recommend
measuring the stretch of the stud rather than
>using a torque value ---
too many variables in torque --- lubrication,
>material
>differences, dirty threads, inaccurate wrenches etc
etc.
>
>Any info on bolt dimensions --- I think it's 8 bolts per
head, anybody know
>the pich and length of the bolt.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:34:30
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
head gasket
I haven't seen the heads on the car yet. --- if I used studs
would that eliminate
the clearance problem. You set the heads over the
installed studs and just put
a nut on --- or would you have a problem
tightening the nuts ???
Jim
Berry
==================================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
To: <
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: head gasket
>
The bolts are 12mm X 1.25p
> Length is 114mm (including the bolt
head)
> Bolt head Dia. 18mm
> 8 per head
>
> I think
the clearance is an issue. The stock bolts barely clear the cams as
>
they slide into the holes, and they are "small" allen heads.
> If the ARP
12pt nuts were much bigger in diameter than the stock bolt
> heads, you
might have to install the cams after the heads.
>
> Wayne
>
> At 05:49 PM 1/14/02 -0800, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> >The
issue is --- they don't make a kit for out cars so I'd have to provide
the
> >information for the high tensile studs --- they recommend
studs over bolts.
> >In addition they recommend measuring the stretch
of the stud rather than
> >using a torque value --- too many variables
in torque --- lubrication,
> >material
> >differences, dirty
threads, inaccurate wrenches etc etc.
> >
> >Any info on bolt
dimensions --- I think it's 8 bolts per head, anybody know
> >the pich
and length of the bolt.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:49:15
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
The trouble with the DIS4 (at
least the one in my car) concerning timing
retard is that it does this
regardless of boost. Its a good tool for drag
racing where you know you
will be WOT and know you will require some boost
retard at some RPM
range. The more advanced MSD units have a boost sensor
which allows the
timing retard to come on at a pre-set boost range and rpm
setting.
After you add all these boxes for air/fuel/boost ignition,
however, you might
as well have just installed a standalone EMS.
Sam
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Philip V. Glazatov <
gphilip@umich.edu>
To:
team3s@team3s.com <
team3s@team3s.com>
Date: Monday,
January 14, 2002 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
>Maybe Road Dyno
http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm.
But if
>you have any kind of datalogging you can easily extract wheel
torque from
>vehicle acceleration data. Just calculate a derivative of the
speed WRT
time.
>
>Philip
>
>At 05:31 PM 01/13/02,
Roger Gerl wrote:
>> > It only has four or five wires
>>
> but the instructions are in Japanese.
>>
>>Read the stock
manual and connect it in between the ignition control wire.
>>Goooood
luck .... and how do you tune it in ??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:44:45
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: head gasket
If i remember correctly, the bolt head comes pretty
close to the cam when
fully torqued down. If the studs were much longer than
the stock bolt
(which they WILL need to be) they might touch the cam.
Typically a nut is
larger in diameter than an allen bolt head, so squeezing
them in there
might be a problem. Also, the socket will be larger than the
"allen
socket", so tightening them could also be a problem. I don't have a
head on
an engine with the valve cover removed, so i cant tell you for
sure.
Wayne
At 06:34 PM 1/14/02 -0800, Jim Berry wrote:
>I
haven't seen the heads on the car yet. --- if I used studs would that
>eliminate
>the clearance problem. You set the heads over the
installed studs and just
>put
>a nut on --- or would you have a
problem tightening the nuts
???
>
> Jim
Berry
>==================================================
>-----
Original Message -----
>From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
>To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 5:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: head
gasket
>
> > The bolts are 12mm X 1.25p
> > Length is
114mm (including the bolt head)
> > Bolt head Dia. 18mm
> > 8
per head
> >
> > I think the clearance is an issue. The stock
bolts barely clear the
> cams as
> > they slide into the holes,
and they are "small" allen heads.
> > If the ARP 12pt nuts were much
bigger in diameter than the stock bolt
> > heads, you might have to
install the cams after the heads.
> >
> > Wayne
>
>
> > At 05:49 PM 1/14/02 -0800, Jim Berry wrote:
>
>
> > >The issue is --- they don't make a kit for out cars so I'd
have to
> provide the
> > >information for the high tensile
studs --- they recommend studs over
> bolts.
> > >In
addition they recommend measuring the stretch of the stud rather than
>
> >using a torque value --- too many variables in torque ---
lubrication,
> > >material
> > >differences, dirty
threads, inaccurate wrenches etc etc.
> > >
> > >Any
info on bolt dimensions --- I think it's 8 bolts per head, anybody
>
know
> > >the pich and length of the bolt.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:02:14
-0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: AP and
Other Type ROTOR Replacement Cost?
Does anybody know what the cost of the
ROTOR only (not with HAT) is for the
AP Racing 14", Stillen/AP 13.5" kit, Big
Red kit, etc?
One advantage to a HAT is hopefully less replacement
cost?
JT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:05:07
-0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: AP and Other Type ROTOR Replacement Cost?
A plain rotor
without hat will cost about $135-175/ea depending on the
options on how the
rotor is built at that specific vendor.
Cryo/slot/drill will be on top of
that as well.
Hats are ~$200-245/ea.
A new hardware kit is ~$48
shipped for when you bolt up new rotors.
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, xwing
wrote:
> Does anybody know what the cost of the ROTOR only (not with
HAT) is for the
> AP Racing 14", Stillen/AP 13.5" kit, Big Red kit,
etc?
>
> One advantage to a HAT is hopefully less replacement
cost?
> JT
- ---
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:09:52
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Motor oil type
$4.80 a quart for MOBIL1 full tri-synthetic
at Pep-Boys and Autozone $24.98
per case of 6.
Sam
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, January 14, 2002 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Motor oil
type
>Bunch of Yahoos. I said "APPROXIMATELY" and that prices
"MAY BE LESS IF
>PURHCASED IN A CASE INSTEAD OF A QUART AT A
TIME."
>
>It wasn't meant to be the end-all price list for
oil.
>
>Incidentally ... I highly doubt a quart of Mobil 1 full
synthetic costs
>$4.08 at Wal-Mart. That stuff is generally $6, $8,
$10. If you found
>FULL SYNTHETIC for that price then let Geoff
Mohler know so we can start
>buying it on the list for that
price.
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
>Of Kar-Yeong Teoh
>Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 13:02
>To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>Subject:
Re: Team3S: Motor oil type
>
>I wonder where you get your oil. I got
my Mobil 1 10-30 from Walmart for
>
>$4.08 per quart. That's less
than $20 per oil change.
>
>Kar-Yeong Teoh
>95
RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:18:32
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: head gasket
> If i remember correctly, the bolt head comes
pretty
> close to the cam when fully torqued down. If the
> studs
were much longer than the stock bolt (which
> they WILL need to be) they
might touch the cam.
> Typically a nut is larger in diameter than
an
> allen bolt head, so squeezing them in there might
> be a
problem. Also, the socket will be larger than
> the "allen socket", so
tightening them could also be
> a problem. I don't have a head on an
engine with the
> valve cover removed, so i cant tell you for
sure.
Nah, it shouldn't be that much of a problem. Here's a pic of
one of my
heads off the motor:
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/head.jpgAs
you can see, there's plenty of clearance between the cam and the
bolt
holes. The holes aren't directly under the cam, but they are a bit
under
it, that's why the cam has a recess cut into it - so you can get a
socket
extension down there, as well as drop the factory bolt with its washer
into
the hole.
If you switch to studs, since you don't need to drop
the stud in from the
top (only attach the nut) any clearances shouldn't be an
issue. The stock
bolts use washers underneath which are slightly
smaller in diameter than the
bolt seat you can see in the
picture.
Shouldn't be a problem switching to studs and nuts, but has
anyone found the
stock bolts to be a problem? If the ARP studs need to
be measured for
stretch instead of torque then you are going to have to get
some sort of
dial gauge with a magnetic base and figure out somewhere flat
enough and
close enough to mount the base on to get a good stretch
measurement.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:32:51
-0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
Road Dyno; was Re: Timing retard with MSD DIS4??
Sorry for not explaining
more. I just did not know if anyone would be
interested in this.
Road
Dyno reads ignitions pulses (RPM) and from this data knowing gear
ratios and
tire size it extracts vehicle speed. Any data logger has this
speed logged
already, but maybe only at a lower resolution.
A derivative of speed, V,
WRT time is acceleration, a. The acceleration
curve in low gears looks
almost like engine torque. It is already good
enough for tuning and checking
out mods.
To calculate wheel torque from the acceleration some additional
data is
necessary:
m - vehicle mass, kg
Cr - rotational mass
coefficient, usually between 1.03 and 1.05
r - tire radius, m
Fr - tire
rolling resistance, N (obtained experimentally, varies with speed)
Cx - wind
resistance coefficient
A - vehicle frontal area, m^2
Wind resistance,
Fw = Cx * A * V^2 * air density (???)
Inertia Force, Fi = m * a *
Cr
Torque at the wheels, Tw = (Fi + Fr + Fw) * r / drivetrain ratio
Engine
Torque, Te = Tw / drivetrain loss coefficient
Crank HP = Te * engine
speed
This is how Road Dyno calculates engine torque and engine
horsepower. At
low speeds and in low gears Fr and Fw are much smaller than
Fi, therefore a
little error in their estimation will not significantly
affect torque and
HP calculations.
Philip
At 03:47 PM
01/14/02, Aamer wrote:
>A derivative of speed WRT to time would simply be
acceleration, correct?
>If so, then that would give you a number with the
units Miles/Hour^2 or
>Km/Hour^2.
>
>Exactly what do you do
after this to calculuate a standard
torque
>measurement?
>
>Sorry if I'm missing something
here....
>
>Thanks.
>
>Aamer Abbas
>
>-----
Original Message -----
>From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
gphilip@umich.edu>
>To: <
team3s@team3s.com>
>Sent: Sunday,
January 13, 2002 11:39 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Timing retard with MSD
DIS4??
>
> > Maybe Road Dyno
http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm.
But if
> > you have any kind of datalogging you can easily extract
wheel torque from
> > vehicle acceleration data. Just calculate a
derivative of the speed WRT
>time.
> >
> >
Philip
> >
> > At 05:31 PM 01/13/02, Roger Gerl wrote:
>
> > > It only has four or five wires
> > > > but the
instructions are in Japanese.
> > >
> > >Read the stock
manual and connect it in between the ignition control
>wire.
> >
>Goooood luck .... and how do you tune it in ??
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:05:37
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
head gasket
Matt --- thanks for the picture, it helps a lot --- my heads
are at the machinests.
Looks like it should be pretty easy to do. I might
pull the cams --- it looks like
the whole process of measuring stretch would
be easier that way. I think putting
a precision bar over the stud and resting
it on the flats and then measuring the
drop to the stud should be pretty easy
--- the stretch is in the range of .006 or
so.
My main reason for
considering going to the studs is so I can increase preload
on the studs and
get greater downforce on the gaskets and hopefully prevent
a blowout. It may
be overkill but the cost should be minimal.
BTY --- the washer that goes
under the head bolt, is that a crush washer or is it
just to protect the
aluminum heads.
Jim
Berry
=============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Jannusch, Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: head gasket
>
> If i remember correctly, the bolt head comes pretty
> > close to
the cam when fully torqued down. If the
> > studs were much longer than
the stock bolt (which
> > they WILL need to be) they might touch the
cam.
> > Typically a nut is larger in diameter than an
> >
allen bolt head, so squeezing them in there might
> > be a problem.
Also, the socket will be larger than
> > the "allen socket", so
tightening them could also be
> > a problem. I don't have a head on an
engine with the
> > valve cover removed, so i cant tell you for
sure.
>
> Nah, it shouldn't be that much of a problem. Here's
a pic of one of my
> heads off the motor:
>
>
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/head.jpg>
> As you can see, there's plenty of clearance between the cam and the
bolt
> holes. The holes aren't directly under the cam, but they are
a bit under
> it, that's why the cam has a recess cut into it - so you can
get a socket
> extension down there, as well as drop the factory bolt with
its washer into
> the hole.
>
> If you switch to studs, since
you don't need to drop the stud in from the
> top (only attach the nut)
any clearances shouldn't be an issue. The stock
> bolts use washers
underneath which are slightly smaller in diameter than the
> bolt seat you
can see in the picture.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem switching to
studs and nuts, but has anyone found the
> stock bolts to be a
problem? If the ARP studs need to be measured for
> stretch instead
of torque then you are going to have to get some sort of
> dial gauge with
a magnetic base and figure out somewhere flat enough and
> close enough to
mount the base on to get a good stretch measurement.
>
>
-Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:01:22
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Big Black brakes
Hi Jeff,
Yes they would probably fit
under the TT rims, however
if you don't use a BIGGER rotor, why waiste your
$$$
and time using a caliper designed for real
stopping
power???
All you need to make them fit is a rectangular
bar
with two sets of drilled holes. One set threaded for
the Porsche
and one set 90 degree thru holes for
bolting to the nuckle. And new
brake lines from the
hard line to the caliper. As I recall, the
Porsche
mounting holes are 130mm apart.
Be of good
cheer,
John
- --- Jeff VanOrsdal <
jeffv@1nce.com> wrote:
> I find your
Big Reds puny :)
>
> Heh...just kidding. In all seriousness,
I need some
> info on the 928 S4 Big
> Black calipers. I just
won a set off Ebay and I
> need to know who to contact
> for
brackets and the remainder of the hardware. If
> anyone knows if
these
> will fit with 1st gen Stealth TT rims, I'd like to
> hear
about it. Thanks.
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.comPlease respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:10:48
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: AP and Other Type ROTOR Replacement Cost?
Hi Jack,
Bet I
can buy a lot of Supra rotors at $60 each before
you buy just one AP
blank.
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- xwing <
xwing@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> Does
anybody know what the cost of the ROTOR only
> (not with HAT) is for
the
> AP Racing 14", Stillen/AP 13.5" kit, Big Red kit,
>
etc?
>
> One advantage to a HAT is hopefully less
replacement
> cost?
> JT
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:43:46
-0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
head gasket/studs
I know you can use ARP studs on 3SI motors; I have them
on my 93 motor.
Assmunches at the shop I went to used metric threads in
block, and English
threads out of block.
They are 4.91" long, and are 12mm
diameter, with 1.25mm threadpitch in-head;
black oxide finish; plus a
hardened washer.
Stock headbolt is 102mm (4") long not including allen
head top portion (wth
that is ~4.48"); has a 3mm depth hardened washer;
1.25mm threadpitch.
Jack T.
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002
Subject: RE: Team3S: head gasket
> > The
bolt head comes pretty
> > close to the cam when fully torqued down. If
the
> > studs were much longer than stock bolt (which
> > they
WILL need to be) they might touch cam.
> > Typically nut is larger in
diameter than an
> > allen bolt head, so squeezing them in there
might
> > be problem. Also, socket will be larger than
> > the
"allen socket", so tightening them could also be
> >
problem.
> Nah, it shouldn't be that much of a problem. Here's a
pic of my
> head:
>
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/mjannusch/head.jpg>
As you can see, there's plenty of clearance between cam and bolt
>
holes. The holes aren't directly under cam, but they are a bit
under
> it, that's why the cam has a recess cut into it - so you can get a
socket
> extension down there, as well as drop the factory bolt/washer
into
> the hole.
> If you switch to studs, since you don't need to
drop the stud in from the
> top (only attach the nut) any clearances
shouldn't be an issue. The stock
> bolts use washers underneath
which are slightly smaller in diameter than
the
> bolt seat you can see
in the picture.
> Shouldn't be a problem switching to studs and nuts, but
has anyone found
the
> stock bolts to be a problem? If the ARP
studs need to be measured for
> stretch instead of torque then you are
going to have to get some sort of
> dial gauge with a magnetic base and
figure out somewhere flat enough and
> close enough to mount the base on
to get a good stretch measurement.
> -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:17:20
-0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: DSM
Shootout 2002! (10th Annual!)
DSM SHOOTOUT 2002! The 10th Annual!
July 19-21 2002
Norwalk Raceway Park, Norwalk Ohio
Sponsor: Buschur
Racing
Website:
http://www.buschurracing.com/buschur/shootout2002.nsfFriday
July 19: Test and Tune at Norwalk Raceway Park; we are going to the
Cedar
Point Giganto Amusement Park with the ultratall rollercoasters
this
day!
Saturday July 20: Import Shootout and DSM/3S Autocross/Car
Show
Sunday July 21: DSM/3S SHOOTOUT!
3S Drag Classes:
Heads Up
(Anything goes, run what you've brung all out!)
Bracket 3S Class
NOS
allowed. Interior in place, unless it interferes with rollbar.
If you have
info missing/needing change, email ME DIRECT
xwing@wi.rr.com? denotes not sure if
coming. Info needed:
1)Your full name + "3SI
nickname"
2)Car/color/Shop (if associated with one)
3)City/State of
origin
4)Hotel you're staying at
5)email
1) Aaron Eckhart, 99VR4
White/Bluestripes, Dousman WI, Econolodge
2) Jeremy Gleason "JeremyG",
91RT/TT white, Elkhart IN,
3sng2002@audio-production.com3)
Joe Gonsowski "JoeG", 92 RT/TT green GKS Racing, Westland MI,
twinturbo@mediaone.net4) Armond
Lemon "Racer_X", 94 RT/TT black A.D.P, Stockbridge GA,
gte201j@prism.gatech.edu5) Dan
Mercier "DanM_94_VR4", 94 VR4 green 3SX Automotive Technology, New
Albany IN,
dan@3sxperts.com6) Jose Soriano
"Amahoser", 91RT/TT red GT Pro, Southern CA,
Jose@Soriano.com7) Jack Tertadian, 94
VR4, Red/Atomic Motorsports, Econolodge,
xwing@wi.rr.comNumber of People:
7+
Number of Shops: 5+ (A.D.P, Atomic Motorsports, GKS Racing, GT Pro, 3
SX
Automotive Technology)
Number of Stealths: 4
Number of 3000GTs:
3
Matt Monett from Dynamic Racing, Brian LaFuente from GT Pro, and
Mike
Mahaffey from Altered Atmosphere have some serious cars in the works
and
sounds like these monsters are hatching soon! There are reputations
at
stake, and a bunch of people out there--you know who you are --with
major
projects that should be up and running this year. The amount of
3S
cars/people OVER DOUBLED vs. 2000, and I think everybody had a great
time
not only seeing 3S cars/people but seeing and GETTING IDEAS from
our
"brothers" the DSM's who are at the forefront of Import Racing
and
horsepower production.
BEEEEEEEEEEE
THEEEEEEEEERRRRRRE!!!!
Here is a copy of Dave Buschur's letter to the DSM
Digest; like I said, he
really liked having us there and was very impressed
with the 3S people and
cars!
Jack Tertadian
10.81 @128.44mph; World's
Quickest 3S for 7+ years
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:09:27 EDT
From:
The4Bangr
Subject: Shootout....what a great weekend....
Message-ID:
<#45>
Hi guys!
Well the shootout has come and gone for the 9th time.
It is so hectic for us
that while it is happening we can't wait for it to
slow back down. Then on
Sunday when everyone is leaving it always makes me
feel down to see so many
nice people leave. I can't wait for next years event
already.
This year was by far the largest turnout ever. The best actual
race car
count we had was the year before last at I think, 194. That was
counting
guys that sneaked up and raced without paying. This year we had an
honest
221 cars that paid at the gate, that was counting the actual tech
cards.
The amount of cars was unbelievable, the pits were just full of DSM's
and
3/S's.
The 3/S turnout was huge. I appreciate all those guys coming
out this year.
The event for us seemed to start on Thursday this year.
The shop lot was
totally packed with people. The day of the shootout the
weather was HOT.
The entire weekend was HOT. Cars ran great on Friday even
with the heat.
Our orange car ran 10.30 at 137, John Shepherd ripped off his
best with a
9.90 at around 145. The RWD car ran an 8.76 in the heat and is
finally once
again going straight. We had the Buick out for some exibition
runs. Not
much great happened with it. We had a trans brake problem the first
round
and I couldn't stage the car with any boost. I ran a 9.4 pedaling the
car.
We brought it out again later in the day. By the time we brought it back
out
later in the day the traction was getting poor. The street tire cars tear
up
the rubber on the track over time. Car ran a slow 1.16 sixty foot time and
I
really had to pedal it again about half track. I got it down with a 8.00
at
165. I then found out that the owner of the car still had the boost
down
from the last race we were at and the best it could have run was a 7.80
or
so. I didn't feel quite as bad at that point.
The awards after the
shootout went really well. We ran our dyno until about
9:30 pm, the dyno has
never ran that much and I made more charging $25 for a
pull then I have since
I have owned the thing. There were some really
impressive numbers put down,
one in particular was 400 hp through a 3" cat,
nice.
Car show was
great this year. I usually drop in late and leave early. I
spent the entire
day there and had a really good time.
Sundays import race was huge again
this year. It was a great day for some of
us for sure. My brother Daniel
ended up #1 qualifier in Quick 8 with our
orange AWD. He ran a 10.03 at 139
mph without NOS. I made some exibition
runs in the RWD car and ran a new best
of 8.500 @ 158 mph. John Sheperd won
again in the street class and Aaron Poe
with my old Conquest took second in
Quick, he ran some 10.4's.
I had a
really great time and want to really thank all the guys that come
here every
year and race. Without all of our customers we wouldn't be here
and believe
me, I want to stick around a long time. So THANK YOU ALL
VERY
MUCH.
Next year is going to mark the 10th anniversary of the DSM
Shootout. Start
spreading the word now. IT is going to be the biggest and
best yet. I want
to do alot of changes for next year to make it even better
for everyone.
Take care,
David Buschur
President, Buschur Racing,
INC.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:15:57
-0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: AP and Other Type ROTOR Replacement Cost?
I know rotors
should be replaced when they get to thin, How often should
the hat be
replaced?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 14,
2002 10:05 PM
> To: xwing
> Cc:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AP and Other Type ROTOR Replacement Cost?
>
>
A plain rotor without hat will cost about $135-175/ea depending on the
>
options on how the rotor is built at that specific vendor.
>
Cryo/slot/drill will be on top of that as well.
>
> Hats are
~$200-245/ea.
>
> A new hardware kit is ~$48 shipped for when you
bolt up new rotors.
>
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, xwing wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know what the cost of the ROTOR only (not with HAT)
is for
> the
> > AP Racing 14", Stillen/AP 13.5" kit, Big Red
kit, etc?
> >
> > One advantage to a HAT is hopefully less
replacement cost?
> > JT
>
> ---
> Geoff
Mohler
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:51:43
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Big Black brakes
There is a mistake on the web page below.
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/Brake_piston_calculations.htmThe
4-piston Alcon calipers are like the 4-piston Sumitomo (stock
VR4/TT)
calipers. That is, there are two sets of active, opposed
pistons (not 4
sets). The total area on that chart needs to be
divided by two, bringing it
down to 1.33 in. sq., basically the same
as the VR4's.
Total piston
surface area is a force multiplier in the hydraulic
brake system, but other
factors such as placement and relative sizes
of pistons, as well as design of
the caliper and size of the brake
pad affect overall caliper
performance.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htm"Caliper
piston" terminology:
- - single piston: one piston, usually on the inside;
the outside of
the caliper is a "bar" that presses against (actually just
holds) the
pad, like on '91-'93 VR4/TT rear brakes. This "bar" is free to
slide
on rods, hence the term "floating" caliper. When opposed,
active
pistons are used, the caliper is usually one big "block" called
a
"rigid" caliper.
- - 2 piston: one set of opposed pistons, usually with
both active,
like on '94+ VR4/TT rear brakes
- - 4 piston: two sets of
opposed pistons, usually with all four
active, like on all VR4/TT front
calipers
- - 6 piston: three sets of opposed pistons, usually with all
six
active.
I guess there could be other variations, such as a 2-piston
floating
caliper where both pistons are on the inside.
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
To: "'Team3s
Tech List'" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, January 14, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Big Black
brakes
<snip>
Also not that the Big Blacks, as well as the Big
Reds, both have
total
piston areas less than that of the stock VR-4
calipers.
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg/cars/brakes/Brake_piston_calculations.htm<snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:49:04
+0000
From: "glynn birds" <
glynn_birds@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ECU access
Hi, I've seen somewhere a step by step guide for
removing the ecu. Anybody
know of the link?
Many
thanks,
Glynn
1994 GTO Automatic
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#726
***************************************
