Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Saturday, December 15 2001  Volume 01 : Number 700




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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:55:15 -0600
From: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Labor charges for water pump

Sorry, just checking emails after a week: just did water pump at a Mitsu
dealer (see earlier post on symptoms: "Re: Team3S: Re: 3000gt losing
radiator fluid but still driving it") here in Houston:
water pump kit:                     $125
belt, valve timing                    $151
Adjuster, timing belt tension:   $ 97  (it is hydraulic)
coolent/flush:                          $17
labor:                                     $420

He said he only charged me an hour more to do the timing belt over the
water pump labor.
Bob
1994 3000gt

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:12:40 -0800
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Labor charges for water pump

Just for comparison I had all belts, water pump, tensioner and timing belts
changed recently at the local dodge dealer. the total bill was 1,064 with
taxes. Sounds like you got a good deal.

Andy

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:21:14 -0800
From: ARMIN MEIER <guetch@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S: RE: team3s:code43

Joe,

Code 43 also stipulates the harness and connector/egr thermo sensor / egr
valve / egr solenoid / egr valve control vacuum.
The connections I would check first. Then the vacuum.

Good luck

Armin

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:23:28 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Labor charges for water pump

> He said he only charged me an hour more to do the
> timing belt over the water pump labor.

Wow... that's funny ... or sad.  You have to take the timing belt off to
change the water pump - no way around that.  The only extra work would be
transferring the chalk marks on the old belt to the new belt (2 minutes
tops).  "An hour extra" - sheesh, love them dealer$hips.

FWIW, when the water pump on my old 3000GT was leaking, they replaced it
under warranty and asked me if I wanted a new timing belt installed.  I
asked how much, they said the cost of the belt, and I said sure.

- --Erik

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:25:34 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbos

I have a question about play in the rotating section of a turbo.
I'm buying a set of used turbos and they have play side to side,
there is vertually no end play but the impellers will move about
.020" side to side ---- no problem, possible problem or big
problem ??????????

        Jim Berry

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:50:03 EST
From: JBUSH9982@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: I think i need a new battery

lately my front lines have been lossing power but not to the extent that it
ever goes dark just dims and then brightens.  Besides that when my turn
signal is on my amps move up and down.  i have two 10" jbl subs and i havent
had any problem starting the car until today when i was low on gas and in a
fast food line that i was shutting off my engine in betwwen the orders that
on the second start up in would not start. it would turn over and dye.  the
duration between the times i started the car up was five to ten minutes, so i
tend to think that it would have been similiar to a short run errands.  If i
do need a new battery what should i get? What do i need to be suffiecient in
my power needs?

Joshua Bushman
93 stealth es

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:58:02 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94-95 Datalogging

> .  Depending on where the errors in the copy occur, it
> could cause damage to your engine, if the ECU even runs at all.  I am
> not making this up to scare people straight.  The person making these
> copies does not know what he is doing, nor what we have done to the
> EPROMs to thwart copying attempts.

Sounds like bullshit to me.I copy Eproms all the time for phone systems (
software upgrades) An Eprom is an Eprom and a good copying machine will copy
an Eprom 100%

Steve

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:01:16 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbos

They're used, low milage 368's ---- I plan on taking them over to
GT-Pro and see what they have to say. I'll post an answer to the
list if I find out the scoop.

    Jim Berry

PS --- the price is well over $250 each.
===========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
To: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbos

> It's very hard to find turbos that have no play, so as long as you are
> paying not more than 250 each, i say go for it.
>
> wayne
>
>
> At 06:25 PM 12/14/01 , you wrote:
> >I have a question about play in the rotating section of a turbo.
> >I'm buying a set of used turbos and they have play side to side,
> >there is vertually no end play but the impellers will move about
> >.020" side to side ---- no problem, possible problem or big
> >problem ??????????
> >
> >         Jim Berry

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Date: 14 Dec 2001 21:05:14 -0800
From: John Monnin <jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject: Team3S: Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors?

Just an Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors:

What if you only hooked the stock MAF sensor the to ONE of the intake pipes.  The other intake pipe would be connected to a separate air filter and.

The MAF sensor would only see 1/2 of the air so you would need injectors twice as big to keep the fuel map identicle.  

360cc x2 = 720cc

Because only 1/2 as much air would flow through the MAF sensor it would not be as significant of a restriction and it would also solve the problem of the MAF sensor dropping counts.

I would assume it would take a fuel controller to adjust the fuel mixture a few percentage to tweek it in. But I sure would be cool if the stock fuel map would be close enough

Anybody know why this wouldn't work?

John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com
1991 VR-4
4-bolt main conversion

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:45:24 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors?

This is similar to making a MAS bypass. I would try to make air supply
symmetric though. The key is to always keep the flow through the MAS
proportional to the total flow. Air/fuel ratio must be additionally
fine-tuned by an air/fuel controller.

Philip

At 11:05 PM 12/14/01, John Monnin wrote:
>Just an Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors:
>
>What if you only hooked the stock MAF sensor the to ONE of the intake
>pipes.  The other intake pipe would be connected to a separate air filter and.
>
>The MAF sensor would only see 1/2 of the air so you would need injectors
>twice as big to keep the fuel map identicle.
>
>360cc x2 = 720cc
>
>Because only 1/2 as much air would flow through the MAF sensor it would
>not be as significant of a restriction and it would also solve the problem
>of the MAF sensor dropping counts.
>
>I would assume it would take a fuel controller to adjust the fuel mixture
>a few percentage to tweek it in. But I sure would be cool if the stock
>fuel map would be close enough
>
>Anybody know why this wouldn't work?
>
>John Monnin
>jkmonnin@altavista.com
>1991 VR-4
>4-bolt main conversion

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:58:17 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors?

I would use one large air filter. The reason is that if one filter gets
dirtier than the other, or if you oil one K&N more than the other, or if
you swap the filters accidentally during teardown, etc... you will have to
tune your air/fuel ratio all over again.

Philip

At 11:05 PM 12/14/01, John Monnin wrote:
>What if you only hooked the stock MAF sensor the to ONE of the intake
>pipes.  The other intake pipe would be connected to a separate air filter.

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:54:05 -0500
From: "Wayne Bonnett" <wayne@wbwebsol.com>
Subject: Team3S: Check Engine Light

Ok folks, I went to my local AutoZone, and they didn't have the diag.
equipment (my check engine light was on).

Frustrated, I took it to the local Mitsu dealer and this is the code they
said came up P1400.MDP Sensor (or p1400.MAP Sensor, I can't tell if it's a D
or an A).

Anyway, the tech comments were, and I quote "Aftermarket air filter on
vehicle causing suppressed air flow.  Code cleared.  If comes back on then
needs to replace with factory filter."

My "aftermarket air filter" is a K&N FIPK on my 97 3KGT Base (SOHC).  Has
anyone on the list had this problem before?  Can someone look up in their
service manual for the above code and tell me exactly what it says?

I put the K&N on about 2 weeks after buying the car in April, and have had
no problems until now.  I thought about cleaning the filter, but I hear they
work better when "dirty".  By the way, I looked at the filter, and it looks
almost like it did when I installed it.

I also purchased a service manual.  A whopping $133!  I figured it would be
worth the investment, since I can't find a Haynes manual.

Thanks,
Wayne Bonnett
www.WBWebSol.com

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:45:14 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin note-- Website Problems

It appears that the www.Team3S.com Website is down, but here's a reminder
that our mirror site is still up and running.  If and when one site fails,
the other will most likely still be working.  (They are identical websites.)
Here's the URL, for those of you that don't remember:
www.Stealth-3000GT.st

Best,

Forrest
for the Admins

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:52:29 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Idea for cheaper way to run 720CC injectors?

One more reason to do a bypass instead of installing MAS on just one
intake: Two turbos do not always spin at the same speed. If you install
your MAS on just one turbo, then that turbo might not always spin at the
same speed as the other one. Therefore you will not be getting total air
flow proportional to the MAS sensor reading.

Philip

At 12:58 AM 12/15/01, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>I would use one large air filter. The reason is that if one filter gets
>dirtier than the other, or if you oil one K&N more than the other, or if
>you swap the filters accidentally during teardown, etc... you will have to
>tune your air/fuel ratio all over again.
>
>Philip
>
>At 11:05 PM 12/14/01, John Monnin wrote:
>>What if you only hooked the stock MAF sensor the to ONE of the intake
>>pipes.  The other intake pipe would be connected to a separate air filter.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:24:54 -0600
From: "Alex Pedenko" <apedenko@attbi.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wheels/Tires

I went to www.wheeloptions.com and hat them price out a package for me -

2700 for the package
4x Volk GTPs 18X10 @ $490 ea
4x Michelin MXM Pilot 255/35? ZR18 @185 ea

Couple of questions - First, does the price sound right? The guy on the
phone told me that the Volks are usually 560, and the Michelins were a great
buy too (didn't say how much). Also, how good are those michelins? I'm
looking at mostly highway use w/ the occasional excursion to the track.

Last q - I have the 18" Chrome VR4 rims on my baby. I don't want to lose
$$$$$ by using them in the winter and getting all the chrome eaten off by
the salt. Should I replace them comlpetely, or are they good enough daily
driver / occasional track wheels.

    Thanks for your time

    Alex
'95 VR4 With salt food wheels

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:19:25 -0800
From: ARMIN MEIER <guetch@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S: Re:team3s: wheels/tires

Alex,

There is quite the difference from the Comp ZR tires to the Michelin Pilot
XGT Z4 we installed recently.
Excellent in the rain and snow. Softer and you feel a give in the corners,
not with Comp.
So, a nice touring tire without the go-cart feel.
I remember from Europe the Michelin always was a top notch tire.


make a wise selection and have the weights installed on the inside only.

Good luck

Armin
 94 Stealth R/T Twin t

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:41:17 -0600
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Is HKS no good?

Hi all,

I have been browsing the internet extensively for the last month in search
for quality performance products four our cars. Today something clicked in
my head and I came to a conclusion that HKS is a company that I should stay
away from or be very careful with. Here is why:

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htm
(HKS $800 premium high-flow fuel pump which pumps less than a $200 Denso)

http://www.gtrowner.com/induction.html
(HKS green foam Mega Flow air filters have the same pressure drop as other
filters but they do not filter dirt)

Their $600+ electronic boost controllers, gauges, and intercoolers are
overpriced for the features that they provide.

Are there any products at all that this company makes well?

Philip

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:24:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheels/Tires

- --- Alex Pedenko <apedenko@attbi.com> wrote:
> I went to www.wheeloptions.com and hat them price out a package for
> me -
>
> 2700 for the package
> 4x Volk GTPs 18X10 @ $490 ea
> 4x Michelin MXM Pilot 255/35? ZR18 @185 ea

10" wide wheels:
I have 18x9 wheels with 38 mm offset on my '92 Stealth TT. The wheel
itself extends maybe 3/8" past the outer edge of the front fender
(still tucked in a little in back). The 265/35 tire extends out
another 1/8". Your 18x10" wheel will protrude an additional 1". Not
1/2" because you will have to keep the inner edge of the wheel about
in the same relative position as mine, which leaves about 1/4" of
clearance with the tire I have mounted and suspension and body parts.

Are you sure you want the look of tire/wheel sticking out 1.5" past
the front fender? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just
being sure that is what you want.

Offset:
The stock offset is 46 mm with 8.5 inch wheels. To keep exactly the
same clearance between wheel/tire as the stock setup, your 10" wheel
will have to have an offset 0.75" less (19 mm less) than 46 mm or
about 27 mm. Look at your current clearance at various positions of
the wheel/tire. If you can stand to have less clearance then you can
add that amount back into the the offset. So if say you could stand
to move the wheel/tire 1/4" (6.35 mm) closer to the strut, then
offset could be increased to 33-34 mm (for 10" wheels).

Tires:
Why would you mount a 255-mm (10") wide tire on a 10" wheel? The 255
easily mounts on 8.5-9" wheels. Remember, the overall width of the
tire is wider than the mounting width. The 265/35 Pirellis mount
nicely on my 18x9 SSR GT1s. A 275 tire is more suitable for a 10"
wheel. Maybe 18x8.5 or 18x9 wheels might suite your goals better than
18x10 wheels. Just a suggestion. :)

SSR GT1 wheels:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/nlucius/n-2-ssr-gt1.htm

Pirelli P Zero Rosso tires:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/nlucius/n-2-pirelli-pzra.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:09:43 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Labor charges for water pump

Had mine done when the dealership had a sale on 60k tune-ups.  They charged
me $600 to do the timing belt, and an additional $200 for the water pump and
pre-tensioner.  I did the plugs myself and saved about  $300 according to
the counter guy.  One hour extra is pretty good.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew D. Woll <awoll1@pacbell.net>
To: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Labor charges for water pump

>Just for comparison I had all belts, water pump, tensioner and timing belts
>changed recently at the local dodge dealer. the total bill was 1,064 with
>taxes. Sounds like you got a good deal.
>
>Andy

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:00:38 US/Central
From: tds@brightok.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94-95 Datalogging

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Kenwabikise <jdk88888@www.speedtoys.com>
To: Team3S Mailing List (E-mail) <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 94-95 Datalogging

>Speaking of datalogging, here's something that might concern some of you
>from Todd Day (creator of the TMO Datalogger), posted on the DSM Digest:
>
[long post clipped]

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just so we know -  PPT (Precision Performance Tuning) has issued
a response to Todd Day.  I think it's always good to hear the entire story
instead of just one side:

From pptracing.com:

This is in response to Todd Day posting accusations about PPT to the DSM
Email List.

I posted this here, because Im sure it will be edited out of the mail list
and PPT has the right to a response...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
First and foremost the cables we manufacture are nothing like the TMO
cable..
If you ever held one in your hand you would know the difference.

They don't look the same.
They don't hook up the same.
and the components are not the same.

The only way in which they are alike is the functionality, but there are AT
LEAST a half dozen chips on the market that do exactly the same thing.

As far as the software goes, PPT sells and endorses the TUNERSTEIN
(www.tunerstein.com) software.

PPT has never copied or distributed TMO software for anyone, or for any
reason. We do not condone that in the least.
TMO can claim rights to the Software.... the technology for the cables it
can not....

Todd Day has contacted us (under fake accounts) to see if we would give away
the TMO software. What ever those accounts were, he got the same response
that everyone else who asks that question gets.. " NO "

The install picture on the web site... Your right that is a picture from the
TMO install pages. I will be HAPPY to change it for you.

Granted you have done a FANTASTIC job with DSM.ORG and I for one have gained
alot of knowledge from it. But, on the other side of that coin I can say
that I have personally contacted you on more then one occasion to offer my
help with the DSM Member Database... ( That can now be found at
www.dsmpower.org btw)

In ending let me say that I have never had any personal issues with Mr. Day,
However I won't allow PPT to be falsely accused, especially for something
that I personally put allot of time into.

Mr. Day needs to take the time to get his facts straight before publicly
offending other people or organizations, and the DSM Digest should not be
used as a personal sounding board. He based his comments off of hearsay,
second hand knowledge and assumptions. He NEVER contacted PPT or myself
(from a real email account) inquiring about our products, software or
practices. That would have been the RIGHT thing to do!!!!!

Jack Wilburn
aka Boostable
www.pptracing.com

- ---------------------------------------------
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http://www.Brightok.net/mailman/

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #700
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