Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Sunday, December 2 2001   Volume 01 : Number 689




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Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:30:04 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 project car for sale..

At 03:49 PM 11/30/01 , Geoff Mohler wrote:
>Has been sold.
>
>Will the new owner step up to the podium??

Well, I'll step up to the plate, but i can't guarantee a home run.
I'm not sure which direction I'll go with this project, I'll have a better
idea once i actually see the car.
I'll keep the list informed.

Wayne

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:56:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Torque split;

Hi Phillip,

Thank you for taking time to read through my web page on how our
center differential works. Contrary to your statement, the angular
momentum conservation law is not evasive. In fact, it is rather
simple and straightforward when applied to our CD gears: equal
rotational velocity of two output gears (or shafts) means equal
torque.

In our CD, when there is a rotational velocity differential between
output shafts, the viscous coupling unit steps in to equalize
rotation rates. Equal rotation rates means equal torque. The internal
planetary gears are "locked" together and the CD/VCU acts like a
direct drive (or effectively a single gear).

If it were not for the VCU, then yes, output shafts could rotate at
different rates and engine torque would be split unevenly between
front and rear differentials. Of course, in this situation the front
and rear wheels would also be rotating at different rates - not the
normal situation during linear travel on surfaces with good traction.

The operation of the CD/VCU is a little clearer when you have a unit
in your hands and can look at its internal components and test
various scenarios with it. Thanks to Frank Martin at Kormex, I was
able to do this. Information on planetary gears trains is of course
widely available, but I do summarize it on my web page.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-AWD3.htm

Please feel free to present any calculations you have concerning this
topic here on the list or to me privately. You may also want to look
through Team3S archives from January and February of this year for
our earlier (limited) discussions on this topic. I think the subject
was something like "the last word on torque split?".

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:01:26 -0600
From: "Black, Dave (ICT)" <dblai@allstate.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Check Engine Light / Wheel & tire questions

Hi Wayne,

In regards to your question about the tire sizing, I have a FAQ on my site
that should help you.
http://www.daveblack.net and look under the 'Tech Info' menu item for 'Tire
Sizing FAQ'.

HTH

Dave 95 VR4
The ULTIMATE 3000GT/Stealth Resource - http://www.daveblack.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Bonnett [SMTP:wayne@wbwebsol.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 12:54 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Cc: stealth@stls.verio.net
> Subject: Check Engine Light / Wheel & tire questions
> Importance: High
> Sensitivity: Confidential
>
> Hi team!
>
> My check engine light just came on today, my non turbo 3000GT just hit 40k
> miles.  While driving around today, the check engine light decided to come
> on.
>
> Is there a way to check the engine code(s) when this light comes on?  I
> know
> with my neon, all I have to do is turn the key on and off a few times and
> the light will flash the code(s).  Is there a similar way to do this with
> my
> 3kgt?
>
> I've re-set the ecu by disconnecting the battery for about 10 minutes, and
> the light didn't come back on.  I'm about to go run-around some more to
> see
> if it comes back.
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> One other thing, I want new wheels and will need new tires.  I want to go
> with the 265/35 - 18 or 265/40-17 tire size.  Any downside for going to
> that
> wide and low profile tire?  What would be the recommended wheel width for
> this size tires, 9.5 inches?  Any problems running with that size rim/tire
> combo?  Any wheel / tire recommendations?  My car is used as a daily
> driver, and for Autocross.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne Bonnett
> 97 - 3000GT Non Turbo (Black)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:14:48 -0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <mraicu@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Apexi AVCR question (long, for archive purposes)

Dave,

>Why does it "overboost" to 1.10 when I have it set to 1.00 across all
>RPM bands?

ANSW: The boost that you set it to is desired/target boost.  The car
only uses it while it is trying to learn.  If learning is disabled, then
the duty settings are used to bleed off the right amount of air and
therefore result in a certain boost (dependent on temp, barometric
pressure, altitude, etc.).  So, if your duty is set too low, you will
never reach 1 bar.  If it is set too high, funny things can happen: you
will exceed 1 bar by a lot up to ~5000 RPM, and then drop; or your boost
can oscillate; neither of these scenarios are good.  So, your boost can
spike as much as 0.10 bars temporarily if you drive agressively, but if
it holds that constantly, you need to lower the duty curve until it
holds less than 1 bar, and then your car will learn.

Additions to what is written below:
I personally keep my AVC-R in constant learning mode in gears 3 and 4
only.  I personally do not want my curve to change based on gear 1
especially as that is very unreliable.  I have learning disabled for
gear 5 just as a precaution, in case the AVC-R decides to get confused
when I'm in 6th gear, although you should almost never floor the car in
6th (therefore, it's a bit of a redundant precaution).

The AVC-R behaves differently in different weather conditions.  In
summer you will need more duty than in winter.  When the weather changes
from winter to spring to summer, most likely your AVC-R will learn just
fine each and every day.  However, when you go from fall to winter, if
the weather changes too suddenly, you may need to drop the duty a few
percent across the board, otherwise your car may be prone to
overboosting, and therefore, disabled learning mode.

You need to make sure you have the correct gear judge values.

Here are my personal settings:

Duty settings vary from car to car (ie. some people like me use ~35%,
others 50%, others 70%, therefore do not reproduce my numbers, just
notice the trend).

I set my bost at 0.95 up to below 5000 PRM in order to minimize spikes
in the sweet spot of the turbos and/or on shifting quickly at redline.
This setup always keeps my spikes at or below 1, and once in a blue moon
at 1.05 (tolerable).

1. Boost/Duty
RPM Boost Duty
2500 0.95 27%
3000 0.95 27%
3500 0.95 35%
4000 0.95 28%
4500 0.95 31%
5000 1.00 33%
5500 1.00 37%
6000 1.00 34%

3. Gear Judge for 2nd gen VR4/TT (different values for 1st gen)
1st 107
2nd 63
3rd 41
4th 30
5th 23

4. FB Speed
1st 7
2nd 3
3rd 3
4th 2
5th 2

ETC
1. Car Select
Cylinders 6
Speed 4
Throttle points to 2 o'clock

Cyl = 6 when the RPM wire is connected to the purple wire.
Cyl = 1 when the IDC wire is connected to the purple wire.

2. Sensor Select
Relative 1

6. Start Duty
1st 0%
2nd 0%
3rd 0%
4th 0%
5th 0%

I included in this e-mail the comments from a good friend of mine, Ken:

QUOTE..KEN WROTE:
The Apexi indiglo SAVC-R should learn very easy and quickly.  You should
be able to learn a very good curve in five or six accelerations in 2nd
gear.  That should only take you a total of 6 minutes on a vacant road.
Once you get a good curve from 2nd gear, disable 2nd gear learning then
make some 3rd gear accelerations.

If your boost is spiking, then learning mode gets disabled.  If you are
spiking, then try LOWERING your initial Duty Cycle setting.  You should
have an initial setting in the 40's for a boost setting around 1.05
kg/cm^^2 ~= 15 psi.  Most people set the initial Duty Cycle way too
high, then overboost in low RPM which then disables learning.
END QUOTE

NEW QUOTE..KEN WROTE:
Here are a few tips on setup:

The controller allows you to specify your desired boost setting.  You
can also specify a "beginning point" for the duty cycle.  During
learning, the Apexi will learn the correct duty settings for specified
RPM bands.  It will also change the display of your setting, i.e 40% to
"***".

Specify desired boost setting, no higher than 1.05 though for a stock
fuel system.  Specify duty cycle - I use 40% for peak boost of 1.05.

Perform WOT accellerations from 2000 RPM to Redline.  Do 5-6 accels in
2nd gear, then 4+ in 3rd gear.

>How do I verify that the AVCR is in learn mode? [DAVE WROTE THIS Q]
The Apexi computer seems to always be learning if all the following
criteria are
met:
1) Throttle is above certain %, close to WOT (i.e. it only learns when
you "floor it")
2) Boost pressure doesn't exceed your specified setting
3) "Learn Gear" is enabled (for gear in which you wish to learn in)
4) "Start Duty" is set to zero (for gear in which you wish to learn in)
5) You are reading RPM signal, not IDC signal.
6) Cylinder setting is set to 6

If you overboost, then lower your "beginning point" duty setting.

I have Learn Gear normally disabled for 1st & 2nd.  During intitial
setup, I enable 2nd Learn Gear to quickly learn settings.  It is easy to
do a half dozen accels to redline in 2nd, and much more difficult to
find the road to get to redline in 3rd or higher gears ;).  After values
are learned, I disable 2nd and just let 3rd+ "maintain" the learned
settings.

RPM rise so rapidly in 1st that 1st gear learning isn't realistic.  In
order to build the maximum boost in 1st, I have the Start Duty set to
+50%.  A Start Duty setting other than "0" will disable learning mode
for that gear.  A Start Duty setting is an adjustment to the baseline
duty cycle curve that the Apexi has learned.  This allows you to control
over and under boosting for different gears.

The FeedBack setting affects the speed of the solenoid control.  You
want to specify a setting as high as possible.  However, if the setting
is too high, the boost will oscillate around the set point.  Use the
graph to see this.  Start high, then lower the setting until boost stops
oscillating and holds steady.

My current settings (from memory) are:

RPM Boost Setting
0-4000 1.00
4000-5000 1.05
5000+ 1.00

      Gear 1 2 3 4 5
Learn Gear X X O O O
Start Duty +50 0 0 0 0
FeedBack 9 7 5 3 3

You could probably set Start Duty for 2nd to be +2 or so to get a slight
overboost.  2nd gear accels are fairly quick so there probably isn't too
much risk of detonation.
END QUOTE

Personal opinion: if you get oscillation while AVC-R is trying to learn,
you risk not learning.

- -MIKE-
95 Red VR-4
received lots of help with my installation and tuning of AVC-R from a
few off this list (both local and across the country/world)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:47:22 -0600
From: "Christopher P Chiasson" <cchias2@lsu.edu>
Subject: Team3S: '91 Stealth RT/TT transfer case recall denial!?!

Hi, this is my first post to the boards in a long while, I apologize if I
did it incorrectly...

On (a cold) Thursday night in the early AM hours (of Friday), I drove from
Lousisana State University toward my home in Walker, LA. I felt my 1991
Dodge Stealth RT/TT "drag" and then heard a thud as it stopped "dragging".
The "drag" was the same feeling that one gets when overmatching rpm for a
downshift and engaging the clutch too fast. After this, I hard a series of
"thuds" as the car began to slow down. I applied the brakes and stopped in
a driveway. I called a tow truck.

Fast forward.

In talking to my mechanic, he said that the transfer case has gone bad. He
made the car able to roll again, but it still wants to drag (no, I am not
driving it presently). I called a Dodge dealer to ask about the 1991
transfer case recall. They asked for my VIN. Then they told me that there
was only a recall for my brake lines. I was pissed. I will talk to another
Dodge dealer on Monday morning.

My mechanic has quoted me $1900 for a new transfer case and $1600 for a
used one. I saw a post, on the www.3si.org messageboards, by someone from
Kormex stating that they sold transmission/transfer case combos for $1750.
I have emailed Kormex for further information.

I am not happy about the $ ammount for replacing this part. I want
DaimlerChrysler to replace the part for free. I have left a message on the
chrysler.com website inquiring about the recall and my car specifically
(sP?).

I am hoping that someone here has had a similar experience and can give me
advice as to what to do to be recognized as having a legitimate recall
vehicle.

Please note: the Dodge dealership didn't deny that there was a recall, they
just said that accoring to the Chrysler computer database, the recall was
never issued (and thus not listed as recall- complete/incomplete) for my
VIN. My VIN is JB3XE74C9MY022004. My mechanic said it was built in 3/91. I
know that the recall applies for 4/90 through 4/91.

How can I get official documents/confirmation (not just a web page
printout) proving that my car had a defective part? I know that I will
actually be able to speak to real people (instead of automated systems) at
the NHTSA and Chrysler on Monday. I need options soon.

Please help me if you can.

Sincerely,
Chris Chiasson

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 13:54:47 -0600
From: RJM <rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: Spark Plug replacement at 97,000 helped

Just wanted to let everyone know that I didn't have any problems
replacing the plugs
and wires on my 94 3000gt nonturbo since I had the excellent help on the
websites
you all so quickly offered me.  The back ones looked as bad as the front
ones and
if they originally put ND pk20PR-P11 platinum plugs in these cars, then
these are
probably the originals 97,000 miles later.   The car runs better now and
I earlier
had stated that it seemed to be running fine with the old plugs.  The
main difference
is the jerkiness has disappeared when leaving slowly in first or second
gear from a
stop or near stop.   I was thinking I was having clutch problems but it
was probably
just due to the worn-down plugs.   Just a symptom to look for that you
might not
supect is related to the plugs and/or plug wires. I can easily let off
the clutch slowly
at  a dead stop now without any gas and the car SMOOTHLY rolls forward.
I put the NGK PFR6J-11's in there now and will try to follow the
recommended
60,000 change this time.
Bob

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:12:47 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel & tire questions

> From: Wayne Bonnett < wayne@wbwebsol.com >
> One other thing, I want new wheels and will need new tires.  I want to go
with the 265/35 - 18 or 265/40-17 tire size.  Any downside for going to that
wide and low profile tire?  What would be the recommended wheel width for
this size tires, 9.5 inches?  Any problems running with that size rim/tire
combo?  Any wheel / tire recommendations?  My car is used as a daily driver,
and for Autocross.
> Thanks,  > Wayne Bonnett  > 97 - 3000GT Non Turbo (Black)
- ---------------------------->

A 9" to 10" wheel will fit either of your two choices.  BUT...  There's a
BIG downside to that low a profile, as I just found out...  I *loved* my
265/35 setup, and it was great on the track on my Stealth NT, but I strongly
recommend *against* them.  I just had a set of expensive 18" wheels get
trashed because of using *too* low profile a tire for the "road conditions"!
(3 wheels shot, one wheel repairable).  Although it was a freeway, there was
no warning that a new pavement height was ahead - it was only maybe a 3"
difference in road height (and 'feathered' slightly with road patch), but it
was the equivalent of driving into a low curb, head-on at 70mph.  We had run
these tires at 14 track events during the season, with no ill effects, but
it just took one highway glitch to "do them in".  My local wheel&tire guy
said that it's just not enough sidewall for the combination of "heavy car &
serious road hazard".  The guy I spoke with at Tire Rack agreed.  The
trashed ones were Gewalt wheels - pic here (top photo):
www.Team3S.com/THill.htm.  Beautiful wheels - a real shame.

I just ordered new wheels and tires from TireRack-- SSR GT-1 (18x9) with
Bridgestone Potenza S03 Pole Position 245/40/YR18, $2593 mounted, balanced,
delivered.  They are similar in looks to the Gewalts - here's a pic of them
on Ann Koch's car at Sears Point last month:
www.Team3S.com/SPIR102701/AnnKoch.htm (top Pic).  And with a bit more
sidewall height (and stiffness, they claim), these should be a bit 'safer' i
n dealing with an horrible and unexpected road condition.

A tire size of 265/40 on a 17" wheel will give you 1/2" more
sidewall(~4.17"), compared to your 265/35 x 18 choice, which height is
~3.65".  But although either would be a great selection for open-tracking, I
question whether they won't be a bit less 'nimble' than a narrower tire for
the slower speeds and multiple tight turns when autocrossing...  For autoX,
you might want to consider the 0.8"-narrower 245/45 x 17...  They're not as
pretty as low-profile setups, but you might prefer the handling when making
repeated turns.  And since this is a daily driver, remember that wider tires
hydroplane much more than narrower ones.  17" wheels and tires are a lot
cheaper to replace, too.  I'm planning on getting some 17's next year, just
for the track.

For sizing questions and acceptable choices for our cars, look at Cody's
page on our website, about Plus-Sizing:  www.Team3S.com/FAQplussizing.htm.

Good luck!

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 00:23:54 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

I have been using my 1995 VR-4 for the last three winters in the NE (NJ)
with sp9000 tires and no chains.  I always thought the car was great at snow
driving.  Last winter I had two incidents which made me buy another car to
drive for the winter.  I was passed by a bus on the highway in 5" of snow
and slush while I was doing 40mph with the back end wanting to come around
and the car spun around twice and landed in a pile of snow on the shoulder.
The car dug itself out within seconds, but the ride home was far more
humbling.  Another time, I started up a steep hill with the AWD doing an
admirable job getting me to the top, but it was then that I realized I would
have to descend  an equally impressive decline.  To my dismay, first gear
was not enough to keep the car traveling slow enough and I had to use the
brakes to stop at the red light.  Once the ABS came on, there was no
stopping the beast from taking me for a sleigh ride into the sidewalk at the
bottom of the hill,  I did about $2000 worth of damage to wheel, axle, hub,
steering linkage, and a host of other parts that cropped up later in the
repair.  This collision was at only about 5mph and I had the car in reverse
with the four wheels spinning which ultimately was the only way I could slow
down since the ABS prevented the car from stopping.  The car has two major
flaws for snow driving.  It does not turn worth a darn and can't stop.  I
would not suggest using this car in snow without the right tires or chains.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Floyd, Jim <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
To: 'Team 3S' <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Friday, November 30, 2001 4:34 PM
Subject: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?

> I drive year round in Colorado using 18" Pirelli P-Zero tires.
> I live at 6,500 feet going up unpaved roads at a 25 degree angle.
> There are switch backs and hair pin turns.
> I've never failed to get home yet.
> It has been ..... "interesting" on occasion.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Furman, Russell [mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 9:24 AM
>To: 'Geoff Mohler'
>Cc: 'Team 3S'
>Subject: RE: Team3S: Chains on a VR-4?
>
>Exactly my point chains wont really help those TANKS any more than they
will
>help us,  Just use your brain when driving in snow/sleet.  Now on ice I
>agree completely that no true snow tire will ever beat a performance tire
>with chains on it.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:41:46 -0800
From: "Dennis Blake" <dblake@charter.net>
Subject: Team3S: no spark

Hi my first post. 93 Dodge stealth tt/dohc
I have recently changed my water pump due to it locking up and after
changing out the water pump timing belt and various other components. I get
no spark to the plugs. Anybody out there have any suggestions on what could
be wrong.
Thanks Dennis

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:45:55 +0100
From: roger.gerl@bluewin.ch

>One last thought on the ECU, before I beat it to death.... What about
>installing a heat sink of some kind on either the outside or inside of
the

On our cars, heat isn't the problem of the ECU inside the box.

Just install good capacitors with a higher voltage rating and they will
last forever. The 93+ cars in Europe and the 94+ in the US at least have
the good capacitors inside and they normally cause zero problems. My car
is a May 93 built EU car and still no problem with the ECU :-)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 18:03:33 -0500
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Team3S: I Need a someone with a 1st.gen.TT to help me out

  I know it's a lot to ask, but would someone with a 1st gen TT mind
driving about 15 miles and feeling the transfer case,and let me know if
it's to hot to touch.Mine is and I don't want to be driving a time bomb
that could hurt me or someone else if it locks up!Thanks,
RICK
'92 R/T TT with a hot loud transfer.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #689
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