Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Sunday, November 18
2001 Volume 01 : Number
677
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:18:28
From: "marc augellli" <
marcsaugelli@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Heres a Link for Balck Book Prices RE:My Platinum Warranty is
cancelled???
Here is a link to the balck book prices:
http://ads.cars.com/adentry/pricing/choose_mym.jhtml;$sessionid$3G4UZSYLF31VRLAZGJASFEY?_requestid=490781991
MITSUBISHI 3000GT
Base Original MSRP: $30,800
Body Style: 2D
COUPE VR-4
Mileage: 99,000
Equipment Adjustment: $0
Condition
Trade-In Value Retail Value
Extra Clean
N/A
N/A
Clean
$7,175
$9,625
Average
$5,985
$7,450
Rough
$3,820 $5,725
I have case against my
warranty company "Bob Rohrman Auto Group" which is
the dealership. I'm
sorry I can't get into details, because I've have
appointment, but i hope
that this will kinda help you.
Marc 94 SL
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:32:26
-0500
From: Rick <
melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
Is there
a way to check the oil level in the transfer case,other than
draining?I'm
going under the car in 30min.,so if anyone knows how let me
know
soon.
Thanks,
RICK '92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:49:39
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
Go to our
Search Page and enter the terms: transfer +level. The first
few
digests (the third or fourth link?) have previous list discussions on
how
members checked the level in the past.
www.Team3S.com/Search.htmBest,
Forrest
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <
melvin@gamewood.net>
> Is there a
way to check the oil level in the transfer case,other than
draining?I'm going
under the car in 30min.,so if anyone knows how let me
know soon.
>
Thanks,
> RICK '92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:15:39
-0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need
a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
Or you can save yourself the
hassle of searching through a jumble of raw
text discussions and just look
here :)
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-awddrainfill.htmJeff
V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Rick
Sent: Saturday, November
17, 2001 1:32 PM
To:
stealth@starnet.net;
stealth@stls.verio.net;
Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case
oil
Is there a way to check the oil level in the transfer
case,other than
draining?I'm going under the car in 30min.,so if anyone knows
how let me
know soon.
Thanks,
RICK '92 R/T TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:21:41
-0600
From: RJM <
rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Changing back sparkplugs on 94 3000gt SL
Is there a place on the
website that shows how to get at the back plugs
or can anyone help? I
tried removing the middle section only of the top
thingy-ma-bopper that says
"3000gt" on it and my allen wrench won't even
turn 2 of the stubborn round
bolt thingys. Don't want to jimmy it up
too much. Engine is
stone cold at first attempt. Sorry for the lack
of correct
terminology and thanks ahead of time.
Bob
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:26:01
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Changing back sparkplugs on 94 3000gt SL
www.Team3S.com/FAQplugs.htm-
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJM" <
rjmsmail@swbell.net>
> Is there a
place on the website that shows how to get at the back plugs or
can anyone
help? I tried removing the middle section only of the
top
thingy-ma-bopper that says "3000gt" on it and my allen wrench won't
even
turn 2 of the stubborn round bolt thingys. Don't want to
jimmy it up too
much. Engine is stone cold at first
attempt. Sorry for the lack
> of correct terminology and
thanks ahead of time.
> Bob
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:29:46
-0500
From: Rick <
melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
> Thanks
Jeff, Bob + Richard,
> This thing is leaking like heck,but doesn't seem to
be low,I drew out a
> little over 1/4 qt..As it was leaking so much week
before last I did over
> fill,guess I'll have to check it often till I
have time to fix it.Shouldn't
> have bought used stuff,but time and
money,had me by the short ones.
> Thanks again,
> RICK '92 R/T
TT
>
> Jeff VanOrsdal wrote:
>
> > Or you can save
yourself the hassle of searching through a jumble of raw
> > text
discussions and just look here :)
> >
> >
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-awddrainfill.htm>
>
> > Jeff V.
> > 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> >
jeffv@1nce.com> >
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > Of Rick
> >
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:32 PM
> > To:
stealth@starnet.net;
stealth@stls.verio.net; Team3S
>
> Subject: Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
>
>
> > Is there a way to check the oil level in the transfer
case,other than
> > draining?I'm going under the car in 30min.,so if
anyone knows how let me
> > know soon.
> > Thanks,
>
> RICK '92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:04:31
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need mechanic in Portland, OR &/or diagnostic
help
>
>I was accelerating from a stop when I experienced a loss
of power and some
>backfire. I pulled over and the engine idled, but
sounded a bit off tune.
>When I press the accelerator the engine revs up
and pressure builds in the
>turbo, but the engine stalls when I let out
the clutch.
It COULD be that you blew off the Y-pipe. That's the
big black plastic tube
that runs on top of the engine from front to
rear, and then turns right
into the air box (or whatever they call it). Look
at the end of the Y-pipe
to see if it came loose. If so, wiggle it back on,
get yerself a phillips
head screwdriver, and tighten the clamp. If the rubber
gasket is bad, or if
your car is overboosting for some reason, you will
continue to blow the
Y-pipe off until you cure the problem.
Rich/slow
old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:31:01
-0800
From: "The Rhoden Family (
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com)" <
rhoden@easystreet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need mechanic in Portland, OR &/or diagnostic
help
Yeah! Rich, I owe you! That was it! I just stared
in amazement at the
space underneath the worm clip. The rubber ring got
sucked into the pipe
and the clip covered the open gap. A couple of
vacuum hoses popped off,
too. The rubber ring is in pretty poor shape,
I'll definitely replace that
ASAP. The ring is missing the ridge at one
end, but I tightened the clip
pretty good, do you think it will hold for a
few days if I take it easy on
the turbo? I'll certainly be happy
visiting the Mitsu parts department
instead of service!
Thanks to you,
Rich, for saving me lots of trouble and cash. Thanks to Bob
Forrest for
responding to my 4am request to join the group and getting me on
by about 8am
so I could get help. Last night at 5pm I would not have
guessed that
this would actually turn into a pretty good experience.
Michael
Rhoden
92 VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
The Rhoden Family (
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com) <
rhoden@easystreet.com>;
Team3S@team3s.com <
Team3S@team3s.com>
Cc:
rleroy@pacifier.com <
rleroy@pacifier.com>;
cwinkley@hevanet.com<
cwinkley@hevanet.com>;
errin@u.washington.edu <
errin@u.washington.edu>;
nws3@winisp.net <
nws3@winisp.net>;
blacklight@planetice.net<
blacklight@planetice.net>;
vlsgto@nwlink.com <
vlsgto@nwlink.com>
Date: Saturday,
November 17, 2001 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need mechanic in Portland, OR
&/or diagnostic help
>>
>>I was accelerating from
a stop when I experienced a loss of power and some
>>backfire. I
pulled over and the engine idled, but sounded a bit off tune.
>>When I
press the accelerator the engine revs up and pressure builds in
the
>>turbo, but the engine stalls when I let out the
clutch.
>
>It COULD be that you blew off the Y-pipe. That's the big
black plastic tube
>that runs on top of the engine from front to
rear, and then turns right
>into the air box (or whatever they call it).
Look at the end of the Y-pipe
>to see if it came loose. If so, wiggle it
back on, get yerself a phillips
>head screwdriver, and tighten the clamp.
If the rubber gasket is bad, or if
>your car is overboosting for some
reason, you will continue to blow the
>Y-pipe off until you cure the
problem.
>
>Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:56:14
-0800 (PST)
From: AmkreadGTO <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need a quick answer! Measureing transfer case oil
Check out
JeffL's site:
http://www.3si.org/member-home/blucius/b-oiltool.jpghttp://www.3si.org/member-home/blucius/b-2-trany.htm-
--- Rick <
melvin@gamewood.net>
wrote:
> Is there a way to check the oil level in the
>
transfer case,other than
> draining?I'm going under the car in 30min.,so
if
> anyone knows how let me
> know soon.
> Thanks,
>
RICK '92 R/T TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:59:50
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need mechanic in Portland, OR &/or diagnostic help
At
11:31 PM 11/12/01 -0800, The Rhoden Family (
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com)
wrote:
>Yeah! Rich, I owe you! That was it! I just
stared in amazement at the
>space underneath the worm clip. The
rubber ring got sucked into the pipe
>and the clip covered the open
gap. A couple of vacuum hoses popped off,
>too.
Yer
welcome. That's what this list is all about. Folks here have helped
me
plenty. I'm sure you'll return the favor some day by helping another
list
member.
The rubber ring is in pretty poor shape, I'll definitely
replace that
>ASAP.
Now we have to introduce you to Satan,
otherwise known as the Mitsubishi
dealer. Turns out you CANNOT purchase just
the little 29 cent rubber
gasket. You have to buy a new Y-pipe, for which
Satan charges about $90.
The ring is missing the ridge at one end, but I
tightened the clip
>pretty good, do you think it will hold for a few days
if I take it easy on
>the turbo? I'll certainly be happy visiting
the Mitsu parts department
>instead of service!
It will stay on if
you stay off the boost. Talk to the previous owner, and
find out why it's
blowing the Y-pipe. He may have a boost controller on
there, or something may
be wrong with the car that causes it to overboost.
You said a bunch of vacuum
lines were loose -- could be it is venting
somehow, and the BOV or
sumtinother is malfunctioning.
Here's a clue: if it accelerated like a
AA fuel dragster just before it
blew off the Y-pipe, then you are
overboosting.
Could be that the previous owner &^%$# up the vacuum lines
by
installing/taking off a boost controller. All those vacuum lines are a
big
mystery to me, but there are guys on the list here who can help you
figure
it out. Satan might even help (hey, it could
happen).
>
>Thanks to you, Rich, for saving me lots of trouble and
cash. Thanks to Bob
>Forrest for responding to my 4am request to
join the group and getting me on
>by about 8am so I could get help.
Last night at 5pm I would not have
>guessed that this would actually turn
into a pretty good experience.
Welcome to the family. We watch out for
each other here.
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:46:22
-0800
From: Richard <
radanc@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Stealth 316
Hey Jeff,
Your site does not appear to load anymore.
Any reason. Two days in a row
no go.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:10:43
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Do I Need a Boost Controller? (Evidense to kill my theory)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: Todd
D.Shelton <
tds@brightok.net>; Team
3s <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Saturday, November 17, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Do I Need a Boost
Controller? (Evidense to kill my
theory)
>Uh, Todd, that table
was calculated at 100% VE for a stock sized
>engine. It is not physically
possible to push more air through. The
>chamber can only fill 100%
percent, no more. Changing anything except
>displacement does not change
the tables values. Even a 0.075"
>overbore only increases displacement to
3100 cc, a 4.3% increase in
>size! For almost every engine at any RPM, VE
will be less than 100%.
>
>Now if you were really clever and
understood engines, you might have
>suggested the following. That table
uses the *displacement* as the
>amount of air that can be replaced in the
cylinder. There is also the
>volume of the combustion chamber that can be
filled. That would
>represent approximately 1/8th (12.5%) increase in
capacity.
>Unfortuantely, I am not smart enough to know if more air will
enter
>the cylinder than that represented by the swept area
(displacement).
True volumetric efficiency is determined by
measuring
(with an orifice or venturi type meter) the amount of
air
taken in by the engine, converting the amount to volume,
and
comparing this volume to the piston displacement.
VE = Volume of air
admitted to the cylinder / Volume of air equal to
piston displacement [then
multiply by 100]
Air density will also be a factor.
If we overbore
our motors then the volume of air equal to piston
displacement will be
different than it was.
Using a VPC (or any other fuel controller) has no
effect
on any of this. That's why I failed to mention it.
Other
mods (like head porting, cams, intercoolers etc)
can and do increase the max
VE attained.
Maximum possible VE would be higher than your
charts
indicate after boring. (increasing displacement)
I am learning
that it's important to be completely
explicit and leave nothing
implied. :)
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:36:35
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
3000 uses oil
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
To: Robert Booker
<
nsubooker@earthlink.net>;
Kimberly Byrd
<
kimbyrd@webtv.net>;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 3000 uses
oil
>I have to agree that 2½ quarts per 3000 miles sounds
excessive --- I have
>about 3000 miles with 2 race weekends on my car and
added less than
>½ qt at the last track session just to top it off. Having
said that even
new
>cars will burn oil sometimes --- if you take your
new car into the dealer
>and tell him it's using 2qts per 3000 miles he'll
probably tell you that's
it's
>within the factory tolerances
<shrug>.
>BTY --- it's a 93 with 60,000
miles.
> Jim
Berry
Speaking of oil problems would anyone like to take a crack
at a
problem we've been trying to solve for several months now?
It involves my
front 368 and apparent inability to drain properly
due to lack of vertical
drop, supposed porting of oil pump and
other factors limiting
solutions.
It's a long drawn out affair and description. Before
spending too
much time - has anyone had any problems of this
type?
Anyone interested?
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:00:48
-0600
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Furman, Russell <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To:
'Todd D.Shelton' <
tds@brightok.net>
Cc: 'Team 3S' <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have
more knock !? (kinda long)
>Yeah Todd I know that, I am talking
the part number I can walk into
autozone
>and give them. It should be a
4 digit # i.e. 3330
>
BCPR6ES-11 NGK Part #
6779
BCPR7ES-11 NGK Part# 1095
- -
tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:24:22
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need mechanic in Portland, OR &/or diagnostic help
***This is
a response from Chris Winkley which did not make it to the list,
but I'm
forwarding it. This tech (and background) info should be part of
the
Team3S Archives. I've snipped a bit, for brevity...
- ---Forrest
***
- -------------------------------
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Chris Winkley" <
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
"'The Rhoden Family'" <
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com>
Sent:
Saturday, November 17, 2001 9:12 PM
Michael...
Good to hear
Rich (old poop) was able to help out, I didn't see your e-mail
until tonight
(Saturday evening). A couple pieces of information:
1. Stay away from
dealerships!!! There isn't one in the Portland/Vancouver
metro area that
knows a turbo from a hole in the ground. IMO, the only
reliable garage is
Gateway Automotive, run by John Boline. His number is
503-261-2350 and he's
located in NE Portland at 118th and Glisan. He has
built many Talons,
Eclipses, Stealths, and 3KGTs. He has been instrumental
in building my 1995
VR4 into what it has become today (see my signature line
below). Note...Rich
LeRoy, one of the Team3S Admins, who lives across the
river in Vancouver, is
also a competent mechanic and can occasionally be
coerced into helping out
for the price of a few brews. However, like most of
us, he puts in many hours
with his career and is not always available.
2. Since I have an
aftermarket Y-pipe, I have my stock unit, with gasket
intact. I'm not sure
what a fair price would be, but I'd certainly part with
it for less than what
you'd pay for a new unit at a Mitsu dealership. Or,
you can create a good
seal under the clamp with duct tape. Not pretty, but
it will work. Some folks
have even used silicone sealer, which is rather
permanent but also does the
job (and is not as ugly).
3. You won't find a finer group of brothers
(and sisters) than those on the
Team3S list. While I am no longer a
listmember, I am proud to say that I was
one of the seven "founding fathers"
who committed personal time (18 months)
and energy to create a list that
focuses on the technical aspects of our
fine cars, and is free of the flame
wars and wasted bandwidth so common on
other listservs.
Please note
that this is coming from my work e-address, where I spend far
too much of my
time (and the reason I resigned my position as an Admin on
the Team3S list).
Feel free to contact me, I work in downtown Portland and
live in
Tigard.
***(second note)***
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 9:23
PM
I forgot to mention yet another solution for the Y-pipe blowing off.
Again,
not elegant, but I've used it myself. Take a couple bungee cords, wrap
them
around the Y-pipe (in front of the "Y") stretch them over the plenum,
and
hook them onto the intercooler piping on the passengers side of the
engine
compartment. I've boosted over 20 psi with this "fix" before I spent
the
$200+ to buy a metal Y-pipe.
BTW...don't believe everything you
read. Rich (claiming to be the "slow old
poop") is merely an "old
poop". :-) While we've never had the
privilege
of meeting in person, Team3S has had many good posts from him and I
would
guess he's one of the best 3KGT open track racers in the country. He
has
probably done more experiments with 3KGT brake and suspension systems
than
anyone in the world. Sooooo, age (and the accompanying experience) does
have
its advantages. :-)
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White Mitsubishi VR4 (w/custom K&N
intake, bored and
polished throttle body, TEC 15G turbos, RC 560cc injectors,
HKS fuel pump,
ARC2/MAF fuel controller, Split Second A/F meter, GReddy
PRofec A boost
controller, Apex EGT & boost gauges, GReddy turbo timer,
HKS SBOV, custom
intercoolers, Odyssey dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm
wires, NGK double
platinum plugs gapped at .032", ACT 2800 lb pressure plate,
Broward six puck
racing disc, Centerforce throwout bearing, ATR downpipe and
test pipe,
GReddy catback exhaust, Stillen cross-drilled rotors, Porterfield
R4 race
pads, SS brake lines, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, Michelin SX
MXX3
Pilots).
1994 Metallic Black Honda del Sol (w/AEM intake, Jackson
Racing supercharger
and fuel pump, Accel wires, NGK platinum plugs, DC Sports
header, High Flow
cat, Magneflow muffler, resonator removed, 2.5" dropped
Progress springs,
Tokico racing shocks w/camber kits, front and rear strut
tower bars, front
and rear anti-sway bars, 17" six spoke dark gray Team
Dynamics alloy rims
w/Yokohama Parada rubber AND (I'm embarrassed to say) an
engine dress up kit
in anodized blue, all covers (battery, radiator, oil,
dipstick, brake fluid,
even the bolt heads). Six CD changer in the trunk, 400
watt amp, Infinity
speakers). No neon lights yet, no coffee can exhaust.
Perhaps there's hope.
:-)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: The
Rhoden Family (
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com)
To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>; Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Yeah!
Rich, I owe you! That was it! I just stared in amazement at
the
space underneath the worm clip. The rubber ring got sucked into the
pipe
and the clip covered the open gap. A couple of vacuum hoses popped
off,
too. The rubber ring is in pretty poor shape, I'll definitely
replace that
ASAP. The ring is missing the ridge at one end, but I
tightened the clip
pretty good, do you think it will hold for a few days if I
take it easy on
the turbo? I'll certainly be happy visiting the Mitsu
parts department
instead of service!
Thanks to you, Rich, for saving
me lots of trouble and cash. Thanks to Bob
Forrest for responding to my
4am request to join the group and getting me on
by about 8am so I could get
help. Last night at 5pm I would not have
guessed that this would
actually turn into a pretty good experience.
Michael Rhoden
92
VR-4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
To:
The Rhoden Family (
Rhoden@EasyStreet.com);
Team3S@team3s.com>>I was
accelerating from a stop when I experienced a loss of power and
some
>>backfire. I pulled over and the engine idled, but sounded
a bit off tune.
>>When I press the accelerator the engine revs up and
pressure builds in the
>>turbo, but the engine stalls when I let out
the clutch.
>
>It COULD be that you blew off the Y-pipe. That's the
big black plastic tube
>that runs on top of the engine from front to
rear, and then turns right
>into the air box (or whatever they call it).
Look at the end of the Y-pipe
>to see if it came loose. If so, wiggle it
back on, get yerself a phillips
>head screwdriver, and tighten the clamp.
If the rubber gasket is bad, or if
>your car is overboosting for some
reason, you will continue to blow the
>Y-pipe off until you cure the
problem.
>
>Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 04:28:22
-0800 (PST)
From: Frank Chen <
jeep1978@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Update on My Engine Woes and Overheat Problem
Got a chance to take apart
the car yesterday with Mike
and it seems somehow ... the water pump was
clogged
with a sandy-colored liquid that also contained some
residue. The
main waterway in the block had the
sandy-colored liquid while the lower two
waterways
were still filled w/ anit-freeze.
I seem to have a
possible, if not a definite, blown
head gasket on the rear cylinders. Mike
verified that
cylinder # 3 and #5 which are center and pass side are
low
on compression at about 90# and w/ a leakdown ...
the compression rose.
Any ideas on what are my options as to how to proceed
??? Thanks a
lot guys. :)
Keeping my fingers crossed for a turn-around in my
luck.
=====
-
-Frank-
"JEEPers"
EMERGENCY EMAIL: <
2017479867@mobile.att.net>
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:54:50
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: (Evidense to kill my theory)
Its been a few years since I took
the class, but the last thermo class I
took (thermodynamic analysis of
internal combustion engines) used a fairly
up to date text that recognized VE
for forced induction engines to be well
in excess of 100% as the obvious
increase in density relative to atmospheric
is factored in. It's not
clear jto me how you can accurately factor out
this effect on an engine
designed for forced induction in order to get a
relative comparison to an N/A
engine.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:16:53
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: (Evidense to kill my theory)
Dave,
You have raised a
very good point. How do you compare the mass of air
flowing through a forced
induction (FI) engine compared to a normally
aspirated (NA)
engine?
Let's start with a few fundamentals and simplications.
1.
The volume of each cylinder is simply the swept volume (the
displacement).
This is not completely accurate, as there is also the
combustion chamber
volume. But nearly all engines are described in
terms of displacement. Also,
an argument could be made, however
accurate, that the swept volume is all the
air that can be either
sucked in or pushed out by the piston. For simplicity,
we can ignore
valve overlap effects.
2. The volume of air-fuel mixture
in a cylinder never changes. All
that changes is the *density* of that
mixture.
3. When all the volume in a cylinder is replaced with fresh
air-fuel
charge, then the the engine is considered to have 100%
volumetric
efficiency (VE).
4. Air flows from high pressure to low
pressure. For the NA engine,
the piston draws air into the air filter. For
the FI engine, the
pistons draw air into the air filter at low RPM. But at
higher RPM,
the compressor wheel in the turbocharger creates the low
pressure
that sucks air through the filter (remember the cylinders are
at
higher than atmospheric pressure under boost).
Now for NA engines,
100% VE is normally only approached when the
density of the intake charge
approaches the atmospheric density (or
pressure for simplicity). This
normally only occurs at wide open
throttle (WOT). When the throttle plate
restricts air flow, air-fuel
mixture pressure is always less than
atmospheric. For a particularly
well designed intake track, a NA engine can
actually compress the air
slightly as it is enters the cylinder. This is
usually for
convenience called greater than 100% VE.
For FI engines,
the situation is entirely different. Obviously, more
volume of uncompressed,
outside air flows through the engine than
what is defined by the
displacement. The volume in the cylinder has
not changed, but the *density*
of the air certainly has. VE can be
defined two ways then. 1) Only the volume
of fresh charge is
considered and the density (or pressure) is mentioned
seperately, or
2) the density (or pressure) is compounded with the
volume.
I use method 1 on my turbo upgrade web page, and 100% VE is the
max
possible.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmI
use method 2 on my pressurization primer web page.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-primer.htmTake
your pick. As long as the person defines which they are using,
there should
be no problem.
Now when we say that one of our VR4/TT flows 800 CFM this
can only
mean the following. 800 CFM of outside, atmospheric air is
sucked
into the turbos (by the turbos). The turbos compress this
air,
reducing the volume and increasing both the density and
temperature.
At 6000 RPM, our 2.972 L engine can flow 314.86 CFM of air
(any
density) at 100% VE (definition 1, where all the swept volume
is
replaced with fresh air-fuel charge). In order to flow that 800
CFM,
the density (or roughly pressure) would have to be about 2.54
times
atmospheric. Notice there will always be a difference in
mass
depending on the atmospheric pressure (density). Here in CO,
air
pressure is about 12 psi. In the midwest, 14.2 psi is more
normal.
Temperature of course affects density also.
In the above
scenario, using method 1, VE would be 100% at a pressure
ratio (PR) of 2.54.
Using method 2, VE would be 2.54. I find it much
easier to consider the
actual ability of the engine to replenish the
swept volume with fresh air, as
this is somewhat (but not completely)
independent of air density or pressure.
Combining boost and VE into
one term (that is, allowing greater than 100% VE)
unneccesarily
complicates things. 150% VE could mean either 75% VE (perhaps
typical
of 7000 RPM) and 2.0 PR, or 95% VE (perhaps typical at 6000 RPM)
and
1.58 PR.
Now, using method 1 for VE, and assuming 95% VE at 6000
RPM and 800
CFM of outside air flow, the boost pressure (in the plenum)
would
have to be about 2.675 times atmospheric pressure. Near sea
level,
this would mean boost of about 24.3 psi [(2.675 x 14.5) - 14.5].
In
Denver, Colorado, this would mean about 20.1 psi boost [(2.675 x 12)
-
- 12]. Note that the same volume of air flows (800 cfm) but both the
boost
pressure and air mass are different (less of course at
high
altitude).
You can use my air-fuel flow calculators on my web
page below to
investigate other scenarios.
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-air-fuel-flow.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ---
bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
wrote:
> Its been a few years since I took the class, but the last
thermo
> class I
> took (thermodynamic analysis of internal
combustion engines) used a
> fairly
> up to date text that
recognized VE for forced induction engines to
> be well
> in excess
of 100% as the obvious increase in density relative to
>
atmospheric
> is factored in. It's not clear jto me how you can
accurately
> factor out
> this effect on an engine designed for
forced induction in order to
> get a
> relative comparison to an N/A
engine.
>
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:05:42
-0500
From: "c.d.gilbert" <
c.d.gilbert@att.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 1994 Stealth R/T VIC motor/sensor assy
Group:
I have tried to
locate a source for the VIC motor/sensor assy. for my 1994
Steath R/T
non-Turbo.
Apparently, the entire upper intake manifold has to be purchased
from the
dealer.
Anybody have a source for just the motor/sensor?
I
have been getting DTC's indicating motor/sensor failures (62). Tests
per
the service manual are negative.
Thanks in advance,
Cal
Gilbert
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#677
***************************************
