Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Friday, November 16 2001   Volume 01 : Number 675




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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:36:11 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ?

> 180 kmh top end and the

To remove the 180kmh speed limiter you cut the wire at pin 66 of the ECU, if
you're told you need a chip you're being ripped off.

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:06:55 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

All the Jap specced GTOs are 4WD. They never released a FWD version there.

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:08:39 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

> I know where you can get one :D  They were sold in Japan on both the NA
and
> TT GTOs.

No all the TTs are manual.

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:19:04 -0800
From: "Robert Koch" <eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Spark plug cover plates for sale

These are made from 7050-T7 aluminum, .400 thick with stainless counter
bored bolts included. Price is 50.00 shipped to the 48 payment via paypal or
money order only.
I have very few left for sale. 9-"stealth" 1-"3000gt" 6-"vr4" 2-"gto"
4-"stealth r/t"
I can give a pic if you want to see one, just email me at
ek2mfg@foxinternet.com and I will send it as soon as I get your email.

I will have a plethora of oil caps for sale in about 2 weeks so keep posted
if your interested.

enjoy the day......

Bob K.
93 R/T NA
To many mods....99 conversion underway in Dec.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:15:02 -0800
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Team3S: Install 1st gen CAS on 2nd gen engine??

Hi Folks,

Although I received a few private "sounds interesting, keep me posted"
replies to my original inquiry, I'm surprised I didn't get any technical or
definitive responses from you experts out there.  So, I'll ask again ;).

I'm contemplating upgrading my destroyed '91 VR4 engine to a 2nd gen.

Is it possible to install a 1st gen Crank Angle Sensor on a 2nd gen engine?

The 2nd gen engine has a cover plate where the CAS is installed on a 1st gen
engine.  It is just to the right of the throttle body behind the YPipe.  Can
one of you kind 2nd gen owners please verify that this cover plate is easily
removable.  Under the cover at the end of the camshaft , there should be a
hollow, cylindrical shaft with slots that the CAS shaft plugs into (I guess
this is really a camshaft angle sensor!).

No doubt that there are a lot of '91 and '92 VR4 & TT owners that would also
like to know the answer!

Many Thanks,
Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:16:04 -0500
From: "Robert Booker" <nsubooker@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

What about the DSM turbo AWD auto trannies? Sean Glazer puts alot of power
to the ground, so there has to be some way of beefing up the AWD tranny

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:22:37 +1300
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Team3S: Stillen Downpipe

 > It seems pretty simple to me.  They use revised engine software.  Many of
 > the Japanese motors also lacked O2 sensors.

 Wrong

 They have a single o2 sensor in the exhaust pipe directly below the stereo.

 However when the sensor goes faulty the car still goes ok it just runs
rich,
 no indication of any kind.

 Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:42:32 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion

For the folks who have to go through an Emission test every year for the
car inspection ... is there a different set of tests for these other car
systems (LNG, propane, dual-fuel systems, diesel, solar, electric/gas
hybrid, etc.)?  I know they test for CO output but when something only
produces water as a by-product then your CO reading is going to be 0.0
and they might fail you because it is not even registering and they
might think the test was not set up correctly (silly folk).  The UPS
trucks are propane powered I believe.  Honda Insight is electric/gas
hybrid.  How do those things get tested?

Around here they changed the machines about two years ago.  Now you are
not allowed to pass your Emissions with a case of the local brew.  Why
Because when they type in your VIN there is a cheap little device called
a modem that sends the results to the State office.  After failing
severely (like when lacking a cat, pre-cat, and muffler) then take it
somewhere else within a few days and try again and pass with flying
colors ... well the State sniffs out stuff like this.  And sometimes at
the second place they will get a report when typing in the VIN that says
"Failed on such and such a day."

The people have gotten smarter but still I think the Emissions test is a
long way from perfect.

Anyone have some insight to what they do for those other fuel systems?

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 in the Commonwealth of PA

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:56:43 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

I was all proud when I got my car and was showing it off to dad.  I
spurted out the new specs (AWD, AWS, twin-turbo, yadda, yadda, yadda).
I was so proud to own something with all the acronyms and our family had
never had a twin-turbo car before, none with this much power, none with
AWD.

Then he quietly leans over and whispers, "You know your brother's
three-year old Minivan is AWD."  I was so heart-broken.  I was put to
shame by a soccer mom grocery getter.  Since not many Minivans are
manuals ... he has an auto AWD.  Insert expletives here.  <grin>

So how about the Montero?  Aren't those also AWD Autos?  I know the
manuals are but I also seem to recall someone wanting to put a Montero
engine in their VR-4?  Was that you, Lucius?  Someone on here wanted to
since the bolt patterns were similar or something.  Maybe that also was
a different layout to ours.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 21:00
 
That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will keep it AWD.
There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that could
adapt.

Might be easier to generate an all electronic shift system, if that's
what they're after.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:18:52 +0100
From: Henri Le Hir <hlehir@lucent.com>
Subject: Team3S: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ? / beware of MPH/KPH Chips

>>In the Uk where  most of the cars are Jap Import, we have limit on both
the
>>180 kmh top end and the cc , we purchase a chip that allows all speed
>>related limits to be changed to MPH not Kmh . allowing you to run over 118
>>mph and the cc to work over 90 mph

These "chips" are in fact frequency dividers, and work nicely on "most"
cars.

However, they usually alter the WHOLE speed signal for all the car
electronics (depending how they're placed).

I'm not completely technically aware of HOW the AWS on the 3S is working,
but it's likely to take the speed into account...
and if the speed is 1.6 times less...well, your turning radius may vary...

I know some implementation of these chips in 300ZXTT with the HICAS system
(AWS), resulting in "pretty interesting" handling while turning at speed

Henri

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:12:51 +0100
From: Henri Le Hir <hlehir@lucent.com>
Subject: Team3S: Braking Distances

>>What general length of road does it take to slow down from 170
>>mph and how stable was the car under the light to moderate braking?

Well, a rule of thumb we're using in europe.

Take the sppeed (in Kilometers), remove the last significant digit, square
the result...and you have an idea.

That is

200 km/h -> 20 -> 400 meters
300 km/h -> 30 -> 900 meters

And that's for EMERGENCY braking....it does NOT take in account reaction
time, road condition, and/or brake fade.

So...between half a mile and one kilometer is the ballpark.

If you don't want to stress your brakes, double that


>>I know on emergency stops on the autobahn Roger G. warps normal rotors so
>>he had to upgrade.

The cryo porterfiels I put on my Stealth have no problem to survive several
"panic" stop from that kind of speed

Henri

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:49:31 -0500
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

The bolt patterns should work, but  the Montero engine is longitudally
mounted.  You'd have to re-build the whole body pan of the car to even have
a hope of making it fit.

Aren't the Montero's 4WD?  4WD has super low gearing and special
differentials for climbing over rocks and such.  Not very good for racing
(road race or quarter mile) IMHO.  There may be a full time AWD Montero, but
I would still have questions about the gearing, even if the thing could be
made to fit.

Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 4:57 AM
To: 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

I was all proud when I got my car and was showing it off to dad.  I
spurted out the new specs (AWD, AWS, twin-turbo, yadda, yadda, yadda).
I was so proud to own something with all the acronyms and our family had
never had a twin-turbo car before, none with this much power, none with
AWD.

Then he quietly leans over and whispers, "You know your brother's
three-year old Minivan is AWD."  I was so heart-broken.  I was put to
shame by a soccer mom grocery getter.  Since not many Minivans are
manuals ... he has an auto AWD.  Insert expletives here.  <grin>

So how about the Montero?  Aren't those also AWD Autos?  I know the
manuals are but I also seem to recall someone wanting to put a Montero
engine in their VR-4?  Was that you, Lucius?  Someone on here wanted to
since the bolt patterns were similar or something.  Maybe that also was
a different layout to ours.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 21:00

That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will keep it AWD.
There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that could
adapt.

Might be easier to generate an all electronic shift system, if that's
what they're after.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:45:43 -0500
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)

Yeah Todd I know that, I am talking the part number I can walk into autozone
and give them. It should be a 4 digit #  i.e. 3330

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd D.Shelton [SMTP:tds@brightok.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:20 PM
> To: Team3S@team3s.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:34:28 -0500
> From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rebuilt engines have more knock !? (kinda long)
>
> Yes Ive noticed that most people are running the stock heat range
> (6) in a copper plug in all honesty on moderate to heavy modded set ups I
> would recommend running the same style platinum plug at least one heat
> range
> cooler (7) possibly two is running more than 20 PSI  (8) If I could find
> that cross-reference chart I had.  I could get us a NGK part number for
> our
> stock plugs just one range cooler (7)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ----------------------
>
> Copper NGK:
>
> BCPR6ES-11
>
> BCPR7ES-11
>
>
> - tds

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:11:44 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

I think the reason I remember that is not the tranny part but the engine
part.  Back when people were discussing the 18- and 25-spline numbers,
4- and 5-bolt mains, etc.  Someone threw that out so I thought I would
dredge it up.

And I was unsure if it was longitudinal.  Thanks for clarifying.  Why
not put that in the car transverse and just drive the darn thing
sideways.  <smirk>

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal [mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 07:50
 
The bolt patterns should work, but  the Montero engine is longitudally
mounted.  You'd have to re-build the whole body pan of the car to even
have
a hope of making it fit.

Aren't the Montero's 4WD?  4WD has super low gearing and special
differentials for climbing over rocks and such.  Not very good for
racing
(road race or quarter mile) IMHO.  There may be a full time AWD Montero,
but
I would still have questions about the gearing, even if the thing could
be made to fit.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:21:36 -0500
From: "bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ? / beware of MPH/KPH Chips

so nobody knows how to remove the cruise top speed limiter though?

Bill

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:37:34 -0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

It would be a lot cooler to blow all that R&D money on a tranny like the new
BMW M3's with the F1 style shifting.  If you want an automatic to drive in
traffic buy an SL or a GSX or even a minivan; because if you're in traffic
and are constantly shifting you're probably not moving very fast anyway ;)
Christopher

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Browne, Troy E" <troy.e.browne@intel.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List" <Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

> Is this a viable option?  If one could find one of these AWD automatics
and
> donate it how much would it concievably cost to build it to handle
> 450-500hp?  Sounds like a dream come true for those of us that drive in
> traffic (any of you with the RPS stage 3 know what I mean).  How much to
> make everything in titanium if that would do it.  Sounds expensive but I'd
> be willing to try if it's not too cost prohibitive.
>
> Troy B.
> '96 Spyder VR-4
>
> Jeff V wrote:
> That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will keep it AWD.
> There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that could
adapt.
> **********
>
> Am I the only one who sees the obvious solution here?  JUST IMPORT AND
BEEF
> UP A GTO SR BOX!  Damn, why must we always re-invent the wheel in this
> group?
>
> Either pony up the cash for a custom gearbox, a REAL upgrade for the
> existing boxes, or quit complaining.  We rehash this seemingly every
couple
> months, and the result is always the same.  The stock Getrag is
questionable
> at best, downright worthless as worst, and no one is willing to fund R&D
for
> real upgrades or a whole replacement.
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> jeffv@1nce.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:11:19 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?

I can say without a doubt they do exist, maybe not straight from mitsu, but
money can buy anything. My brother lives in japan, and works for my uncle's
company exporting used cars to the middle east. He has driven an auto VR4,
before shipping it to the UAE. I've told him up and down there's no such
thing, but apparently there is, and is working on getting me pictures before
it's shipped to south africa from the UAE where my uncle has it right now (i
want hard proof). This isn't to say it wasn't an aftermarket mod, most
likely an auto unit from an SR model bolted into a VR4 is my guess. He says
the shifting wasnt good, but the car had plenty of miles racked up on it, so
it seems to hold up. I told him to contact the original owner, but i doubt
that will happen.

Omar
92 r/t

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Jeff VanOrsdal
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:18 PM
> To: Team3s Tech List
> Cc: bansheestealth@aol.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: 600 HP AWD, Automatic?
>
>
> That's the trick, to find an AWD auto setup that will keep it AWD.
> There should be some van or utility with an AWD automatic that
> could adapt.
> **********
>
> Am I the only one who sees the obvious solution here?  JUST
> IMPORT AND BEEF
> UP A GTO SR BOX!  Damn, why must we always re-invent the wheel in this
> group?
>
> Either pony up the cash for a custom gearbox, a REAL upgrade for the
> existing boxes, or quit complaining.  We rehash this seemingly
> every couple
> months, and the result is always the same.  The stock Getrag is
> questionable
> at best, downright worthless as worst, and no one is willing to
> fund R&D for
> real upgrades or a whole replacement.
>
> Jeff V.
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
> jeffv@1nce.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:35:25 -0500
From: "Jon" <jon@ncfpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

Hey guys,

    Just a question to see if this seems legit.  My '91 3000GT overheated
the other day, so I'm getting it checked out.  It's got about 76 thousand on
it.  He said he ran a pressure check and the water pump is leaking so he
can't figure out if there is anything wrong with it until the pump is
replaced.  He basically said he could tear it apart, put a new pump in, and
it could still overheat.  He stressed the point that he can't figure out
what's wrong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me that I
should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other random stuff.
If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?

 -- Jon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:55:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

Sounds very legit.

Sounds like routine maintenance.

if the pump leaks..FIX IT, does it solve an overheating problem?? Nobodya
can tell you for sure, until you fix the larger problem.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Jon wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
>     Just a question to see if this seems legit.  My '91 3000GT overheated
> the other day, so I'm getting it checked out.  It's got about 76 thousand on
> it.  He said he ran a pressure check and the water pump is leaking so he
> can't figure out if there is anything wrong with it until the pump is
> replaced.  He basically said he could tear it apart, put a new pump in, and
> it could still overheat.  He stressed the point that he can't figure out
> what's wrong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me that I
> should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other random stuff.
> If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?
>
>  -- Jon

- ---
Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:31:07 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion

Sorry, I misquoted the article. Not 430hp.  Looking again, I am not sure what they are reporting since at 2000rpm the turbo's would be pretty flat?
***
We chose to run the system using a maximum of five pounds of boost, giving us a reliable 465 lb-ft of torque and 275 horsepower at 2000 rpm. At 15 pounds of boost ,and with a different cam, this motor is capable of delivering over 700 lb-ft of torque and over 750 HP!
***
Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 5:47 PM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion

Nother link. They say 700hp, then wimp out and only test using 5psi boost 430hp.
Gas turbo 350cid.

http://www.truckworld.com/4x4-OffRoad/96-1957TurboWillys/1957TurboWillys.html

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:43 PM
To: Joshua G. Prince; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion

Here's a link on propane.
..about heating, I do think the vaporization will help cool, but the combustion itself is hotter , I think, still checking more info.
http://franzh.home.texas.net/engine.html

The link above indicates ignition temp 900degF, much higher than gasoline, but not sure if combustion temp also is higher. Maybe further research will clarify how gasoline turbo applications are affected.

Kurt 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joshua G. Prince [mailto:joshua@unconundrum.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:51 PM
To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion

Also, it is used a lot in Diesel applications for both better gas
economy and greater hp.  On my Hummer list, several people are running
propane and it is 100% safer then nitrous.  It actually cools the engine
instead of heating it up, and depending how it is setup, can give you
30-40% better gas mileage or a hell of a lot of power and torque.   

Joshua Prince
97 1/2 Fly Yellow Hummer Convertible
3SI#0136
Microsoft Certified System Engineer
Joshua@Unconundrum.com

 -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 3:00 PM
To: Furman, Russell; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Furman, Russell <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>

> My only concern is that the stored fuel is under constant pressure
compared
> to a gasoline powered vehicle, then there is the weight penalty to due
the
> requirements for the fuel cells.

The weight penalty would be far surpassed by the ability to run 5 more
pounds of boost. An empty propane tank is not very heavy. My son just
bought a 1/2 ton truck in Phoenix that has dual fuel systems --- book
sez
you can switch on the fly.

 >Last but not least how are you going to
> fill up the car?  Take the tanks out bring them to your local hardware
store
> and say fill er up?  They sure as hell will not let you just drive up
to
> their tanks and fill up.

Propane is used in cars all over the place, RV's have several 10 gal
tanks
on them ---- you just pull up to the tank at the gas station and fill er
up.

        Jim berry
=================================================


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:47 PM
> > To: Furman, Russell; team3S@stealth-3000gt.st;
3sracers@speedtoys.com
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> > Same issue as a 20 gal fuel tank ---- put it outside the tank and
> > you have a problem. Propane powered vehicles are all over the place.
> >
> >         Jim berry
> > ==============================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Furman, Russell <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
> > To: 'Jim Berry' <fastmax@home.com>; <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>;
> > <3sracers@speedtoys.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 11:40 AM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Propane conversion
> >
> >
> > > Umm Jim,  can you say small car accident = BOOM.  Trust me saw one
of
> > the
> > > local Cop cars that runs on propane catch fire :O  It just would
not
> > stop
> > > burning, FD had to bust out with foam to put that thing out.....
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jim Berry [SMTP:fastmax@home.com]

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:46:08 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

rong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me that I
>should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other random stuff.
>If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?
>
That "random stuff" better include a new timing belt. Antifreeze eats the
timing belt. Might as well replace the adjusters while you are in there.

Rich/slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:56:07 -0600
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

If the pump is leaking that means it's bad so he's right he'll have to
replace it.  The water pump is directly run by the timing belt so to get an
idea of what has to be done to replace it you can look at the Team3S FAQ on
the 60K.  You'll pretty much be charged for the labor of doing a 60K minus
the spark plugs and wires.  All the belts must be removed so it's just as
easy to put in new AC and PS (and Timimg if it hasn't been done yet) belts
as it is to keep the old ones, so his recommendation is legit.

If you haven't done the 60K, do it now!  If you have done it, I feel for you
because the same thing happened to me.  I just did the 60K and oops the
water pump went out.  I did my 2nd 60K in under 10,000 miles by myself to
save the money and also because I wanted to learn how to do it.  (It took a
couple of weeks by the way, since I was VERY careful and didn't have a lot
of the tools I needed)

You can also look at the 60K FAQ to get an idea of the pricing since the
work is very similar.

Good luck,
Christopher

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon" <jon@ncfpc.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

> Hey guys,
>
>     Just a question to see if this seems legit.  My '91 3000GT overheated
> the other day, so I'm getting it checked out.  It's got about 76 thousand
on
> it.  He said he ran a pressure check and the water pump is leaking so he
> can't figure out if there is anything wrong with it until the pump is
> replaced.  He basically said he could tear it apart, put a new pump in,
and
> it could still overheat.  He stressed the point that he can't figure out
> what's wrong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me that I
> should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other random
stuff.
> If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?
>
>  -- Jon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:10:47 -0500
From: "bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ? / beware of MPH/KPH Chips

I thought that he was talking about only the car's top speed limiter.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ? / beware of
MPH/KPH Chips


> Steve Cooper SCooper@paradise.net.nz posted this yesterday:
>
> To remove the 180kmh speed limiter you cut the wire at pin 66 of the ECU,
if
> you're told you need a chip you're being ripped off.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bill vp" <billvp@highstream.net>
> To: "Team 3/S List" <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: raise cruise control speed limit on 1st gen ? /
beware
> of MPH/KPH Chips
>
> > so nobody knows how to remove the cruise top speed limiter though?
> >
> > Bill

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:08:08 -0800
From: "ek2mfg" <ek2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

I agree with the big guns on this, I would spend the 500.00 on all
the parts listed, pump,belts,tensioner and tools included in the FAQ
and do it myself. Never did plugs on a car like this before and
followed the instructons with patience and detail and it took me 2
hours...45 minutes of that was running to Sears for a new tourque
wrench. In the end I saved 75.00 and got the best tourque wrench
sears sells as well as a nice metric combo set.
JMHO

bobk.
93 R/T NA
too many mods......

- ---- Original Message ----
From: crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:56:07 -0600

>If the pump is leaking that means it's bad so he's right he'll have
>to
>replace it.  The water pump is directly run by the timing belt so to
>get an
>idea of what has to be done to replace it you can look at the Team3S
>FAQ on
>the 60K.  You'll pretty much be charged for the labor of doing a 60K
>minus
>the spark plugs and wires.  All the belts must be removed so it's
>just as
>easy to put in new AC and PS (and Timimg if it hasn't been done yet)
>belts
>as it is to keep the old ones, so his recommendation is legit.
>
>If you haven't done the 60K, do it now!  If you have done it, I feel
>for you
>because the same thing happened to me.  I just did the 60K and oops
>the
>water pump went out.  I did my 2nd 60K in under 10,000 miles by
>myself to
>save the money and also because I wanted to learn how to do it.  (It
>took a
>couple of weeks by the way, since I was VERY careful and didn't have
>a lot
>of the tools I needed)
>
>You can also look at the 60K FAQ to get an idea of the pricing since
>the
>work is very similar.
>
>Good luck,
>Christopher
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jon" <jon@ncfpc.com>
>To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 12:35 PM
>Subject: Team3S: Mechanic legit?
>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>>     Just a question to see if this seems legit.  My '91 3000GT
>overheated
>> the other day, so I'm getting it checked out.  It's got about 76
>thousand
>on
>> it.  He said he ran a pressure check and the water pump is leaking
>so he
>> can't figure out if there is anything wrong with it until the pump
>is
>> replaced.  He basically said he could tear it apart, put a new
>pump in,
>and
>> it could still overheat.  He stressed the point that he can't
>figure out
>> what's wrong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me
>that I
>> should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other
>random
>stuff.
>> If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?
>>
>>  -- Jon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:01:34 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

>If you haven't done the 60K, do it now!  If you have done it, I feel for you
>because the same thing happened to me.  I just did the 60K and oops the
>water pump went out. 

Me too. Mine was covered by the warranty, so I got two timing belts within
10,000 miles. Mine was free, though.

Rich slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:24:58 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

> Hey guys,
>     Just a question to see if this seems legit.  My '91 3000GT overheated
the other day, so I'm getting it checked out.  It's got about 76 thousand on
it.  He said he ran a pressure check and the water pump is leaking so he
can't figure out if there is anything wrong with it until the pump is
replaced.  He basically said he could tear it apart, put a new pump in, and
 it could still overheat.  He stressed the point that he can't figure out
what's wrong with it until the pump is replaced.  He also told me that I
should have a bunch of the idle belts replaced, and some other random stuff.
If this seems normal, how much should this cost?  Any ideas?
>  -- Jon
- -------------------------->

That other "random stuff" is the *required* 60k maintenance service,
including the timing belt, idler pulley, etc.  See our 60k page,
www.Team3S.com/60k.htm .  Many of us who have done the job ourselves suggest
changing the water pump at the same time as the timing belt.  If you already
did the 60k, just changing the pump alone costs almost as much as the entire
60k (since the same amount of labor is involved).  If you haven't done the
60k service already, (gulp!), this is a lucky break to force you to change
the timing belt.  A snapped timing belt usually means a fried engine
($3000+) if you drive it for more than a few feet afterwards...

Price?  Depending on where you live, $600-$1200 for 60k service + water
pump - and probably $400 - $900 for the water pump alone.  If you don't go
to a dealer, print out our 60k page, and insist that the guy has a copy of
the manuals in front of him (you may have to buy them - $60 - a good thing
to have them, anyway).  The phone number is in the "Where to get the
Manuals" Page in the FAQ, www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm.

Good luck!

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:29:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: NEED ADVISE

Jane,

The parts you can clean on the throttle body will rarely resolve any
functioning problems. Basically, all you can clean are the surfaces
you see looking into the "mouth" of the TB. The service manual
strongly cautions against letting any solvents go through the air
bypass passages - those little slots you see on TB near the "outer"
side of the TB plate. The throttle plate isn't so dirty it does not
close is it?

Parts that can go bad:

ISC/IAC - idle speed control/idle air control: This is a stepper
motor that moves a valve in and out to let less or more air flow
through those air bypass passages I just mentioned. Some symptoms of
a bad one are poor idle speed control and perhaps poor acceleration.
The ISC is always active. You might be able to repair or clean this
device - I don't know. It can be tested; see the service manual.

BISS - basic idle speed screw: This is that screw that often has the
cap missing on the "front" of the TB. You must ground some terminals
to use the BISS to adjust idle speed. See the service manual for
specifics. What can go bad on this is the #5 o-ring that seals the
screw. This o-ring costs maybe 20 cents at a hardware store. Also,
the BISS can be missing altogether - you should hear a bit of an air
leak (hissing) if this has happened.

FIAV - fast idle air valve: There is nothing here that you can repair
or even have acces to that I konw of. Perhaps others have more
experience with this. The FIAV is a valve that is controlled by a
piece of wax that expands or contracts based on the temperature of
the engine coolant that circulates through that small part of the TB.
It should only be "active" when the coolant is closed. The service
manual may have more information for testing and repair.

TPS/IPS - throttle position sensor/idle position switch: This is two
devices in one and is on the "front" of the TB. The shaft that the TB
plate sits on rotates inside the TPS/IPS. The TPS sends a signal
between 0 and 5 volts telling the ECM the position of the plate -
higher voltage is more open. In addition when the plate is closed,
the IPS is low (0 to 1 v). The service manual shows how to test this
device. I don't think you can clean or repair it - but maybe. I don't
know what the failsafe mode is for a bad TPS but I bet driveability
should be reduced if the TPS is bad.

Other problems:

Dashpot: this device eases the throttle plate closed to avoid
backfire. The service manual shows how to test it and set the gap.

Throttle cable: if too tight then can get backfire as throttle plate
closes too fast. If too loose, car may act weird ("jumpy") at slow
speed and throttle plate may not open all the way at WOT.

TB Gasket: this is between the TB and the plenum. You might have air
leaks if this is bad. Note that it has indentations on it. The little
nubbin thingy goes toward the top back I think - check the service
manual though. I have used a plain flat homemade gasket here before I
could get a factory replacement and didn't notice anything bad - but
use the factory one.

Vacuum leaks: hoses away from the TB can affect idle/performance if
they leak. Are they all connected correctly?

Hint:
Test a device first to check its operation rather than just replacing
it to see if that is what's wrong (unless replacing is cheap and
fast).

What to do first:
1) visual inspection - clean/dirty? anything broken? wires OK?
2) check parts to see if they work - start easy and work toward
harder. Keep notes.

Team3S: Did I miss something?

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jane" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
To: <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:07 PM
Subject: Team3S: NEED ADVISE

Hi Guys,

I would like to clean my throttle body especially cleaning or
removing
ISC/IAC motor so that whenever I adjust BISS in or out the rpm will
decrease or increase. Please advise me what should I do first and
what component that I must take care and how to check the component
inside throttle body that still good working.

Your kindly attention will be highly appreciated.

Kindly regards,
Jane

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:40:26 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Distances

Gee, I hate to be argumentative, but these numbers seem very pessimistic.
I would say they need to be cut in half, and we are talking of just the braking distance, without reaction time. Reaction time at 170mph / 273kph might be 150-250 ft depending on how its defined.

Various sources indicate square the speed in mph and then divide by twenty to get just braking distance. I have not found any references relating to speeds over 90mph, so this is very iffy, but seem more in line with observation than the kph formula below.

So from 170mph we have 1445ft stopping distance.
That's still 482yd or .27mi, and with reaction time 5 to 6 football fields.

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Henri Le Hir [mailto:hlehir@lucent.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 2:13 AM
To: 'team3s-digest@mail.speedtoys.com'
Cc: 'Darren Schilberg'
Subject: Team3S: Braking Distances

>>What general length of road does it take to slow down from 170
>>mph and how stable was the car under the light to moderate braking?

Well, a rule of thumb we're using in europe.

Take the sppeed (in Kilometers), remove the last significant digit, square
the result...and you have an idea.

That is

200 km/h -> 20 -> 400 meters
300 km/h -> 30 -> 900 meters

And that's for EMERGENCY braking....it does NOT take in account reaction
time, road condition, and/or brake fade.

So...between half a mile and one kilometer is the ballpark.

If you don't want to stress your brakes, double that

>>I know on emergency stops on the autobahn Roger G. warps normal rotors so
>>he had to upgrade.

The cryo porterfiels I put on my Stealth have no problem to survive several
"panic" stop from that kind of speed

Henri

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:33:02 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Team3S: Uneven  Eibach Drop

I've tried my best to ignore it, but it won't go away.  Since I installed my
Eibach Pro-Kit I've noticed at least 1/2in. difference in height between the
front divers side and front passenger side.  I've inspected the springs,
struts and sway bar mounts and can find no obvious discrepencies.  I
installed the Eibachs myself and ran into no problems.  The alignment went
without fault and the track and street performance don't indicate any
problems.  I'm wandering if one of the front Eibachs is out of spec.  Any
comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:03:08 -0500
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mechanic legit?

I do believe a good friend of mine on the list (you listening, BazJeep)
had a similar run-in recently with his car.  Found his dream car.
Co-drove it with his brother from Florida to New Jersey ... it
overheated.  Fixed the thermostat.  Overheated.  Water pump.  Overheated
(so some cyclic scene like that).

Maybe he can tell us what happened or his insight.  I felt bad watching
him go through that.  Like Merritt, mine was covered under warranty.  As
was the blown tranny from the second gear synchro.  Man I love that $200
deductible on the one-time $3,000 one year warranty.  Got my money's
worth.

And depending on where you live, Jon, you might be close to a great
garage or members who can help diagnose or fix some of the 60k
components.  I know that is in the archives if you want to search for
it, http://www.team3s.com/Search.htm.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 14:25
 
That other "random stuff" is the *required* 60k maintenance service,
including the timing belt, idler pulley, etc.  See our 60k page,
www.Team3S.com/60k.htm .  Many of us who have done the job ourselves
suggest
changing the water pump at the same time as the timing belt.  If you
already
did the 60k, just changing the pump alone costs almost as much as the
entire
60k (since the same amount of labor is involved).  If you haven't done
the
60k service already, (gulp!), this is a lucky break to force you to
change
the timing belt.  A snapped timing belt usually means a fried engine
($3000+) if you drive it for more than a few feet afterwards...

Price?  Depending on where you live, $600-$1200 for 60k service + water
pump - and probably $400 - $900 for the water pump alone.  If you don't
go
to a dealer, print out our 60k page, and insist that the guy has a copy
of
the manuals in front of him (you may have to buy them - $60 - a good
thing
to have them, anyway).  The phone number is in the "Where to get the
Manuals" Page in the FAQ, www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:42:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Oleg Malkin <olegmalkin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Times for non-turbo

I currently own a base 93 stealth with auto
transmission and I have to admit it is pretty slow.
I am thinking of buying a 3000gt, but I probably would
not be able to afford a vr4 so it is down to either a
base or sl with 220 hp. Now my question is, what are
the 0-60 times for a non-turbo 3000gt. Is there any
difference in acceleration between an SL and a base
3000gt before 97 models(when they started puting those
161hp engines in)? I will deffinatly get a manual this
time.

                                       Oleg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:01:35 -0500
From: "Jon" <jon@ncfpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: 60K maintenence quote

Hey guys,

    I asked you all yesterday about the work (which is basically the 60k
maintence ) I need done on my car prompted by an overheat.  The mechanic
quoted my $732.00 for parts.. this included $200+ for the water pump, $150+
for the two tensioners.. Is that how much the (non-aftermartket) parts
actually cost?  I remember reading a 60k maintence page on the Team3S
website, and I couldve swore the parts came out to only about $339.  Slap on
$500 for labor, and I was quoted at $1,300 just to replace the water pump
and some belts.  Guys???

    - Jon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #675
***************************************