Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Thursday, October 11 2001  Volume 01 : Number 642




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:28:06 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: Suspension (was: Rattling gearbox)

Correct ... stock suspension is squishy when pushed.  I believe the TT
cars without ECS have their suspension stuck in the mode that is very
close to the Sport mode on an ECS-equipped car.  I was told this by a
friend who has ECS and then rode in/drove my car and said it felt very
much like his in Sport mode.

I also take it to AutoX and driver's ed (road courses) and I have some
pictures of it leaning quite a lot if anyone needs to see them for
proof.  Some of these turns are as slow as a 90-degree right-hander at
45 mph (Turn 1 at Heartland Park) to a sweeping right-left-right chicane
of about 70 mph (The Bus Stop at Watkins Glen).

That is with suspension that is stock and old and getting the life wrung
out of it.  Anymore I have gotten good at reading it and knowing that
once the car settles in (at full tilt) it will stay there quite solidly
although getting it to that point is a little hair-raising sometimes.
Chuck rode in my car at Kansas and can vouch for the amount of pitch and
roll.  I also have in-car footage of it at two tracks and an AutoX
course.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 3:22 PM
 
Yeah, Andy, you are missing something.  If you have stock springs there
is
absolutely no way you can have no dive and body roll unless you are
driving
extremely slowly around corners, ECS notwithstanding.

Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:33:45 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost

I reduced the gap on my plugs when installed at 60k because I know they
wear down with age.  I took an average and if they were worn down 50% in
60k miles then I will adjust them 25% more closed than required so that
in 30k they will be at stock gap and at 60k they will only be 25% over.
Maybe the numbers are too vague.

No reason to start out stock since it will only get wider.  I start it
out under the spec a little so that when it wears down it gets more
power and then drops off like a graph would show a mountain peak instead
of a steadily declining curve.

Also, because I don't mess with the rear bank on mine much so I didn't
want to have to get at the plugs after 30k to do the gap ... just check
that they are not corroded, are running fine, etc.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:24:23 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos

I guess I go back a bit further in the 3S community than some of you do...
And it's possible that our "Fastest Page" no longer has any of the runs with
stock turbos around 12 sec listed (it used to).  My memory isn't perfect,
*but*:  Mike Mahaffey ran 12.12 or better a couple of times in 98 or 99, and
Adam Weltz ran several in the 12.20 range around the same time.  I clearly
remember a 12.32 for Adam.  And some good numbers for Pete Palamara (in
'97?), too...  There were a few other guys who claimed to have gotten into
the high 11's/low 12's on stock turbos, but I don't have the time to check
the archives.  Let those who aren't convinced do a query on the Search Page
around late '98 - spring '99, for starters - we had some lengthy discussions
around that time.  (I know it was when Team3S was hosted on the old
"Sirius.com" server).

I stand by my statement:  many folks have been very close to that magic
"12.0" number with stock turbos.  Hitting 11's is hard as hell, but not
impossible on stock turbos.  And if not 11's, 12.12 is pretty damned close.
As has been said a few other times, you can do a LOT to our cars to make
them faster even before doing a turbo swap.

And yes, thanks, Matt Monett has updated his times (with both cars,
including his 11.74 - '93 Stealth without NOS).  I've updated the Fastest
Page...  www.Team3S.com/FAQ-fastest.htm  If anyone has newer info for the
page, please contact me.  I know JackT (xwing) did an 11.219? @ ~125? last
summer with the new RPS, but I never got the update, so the older time is
still there.  Sound off with timeslips, dudes and dudettes...!

Best,

Forrest

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos

> >> All of the folks who ran in the 11's were modified,
> >> but several of them had stock turbos.  More than
> >> 1/2 the times in the 12's were on stock turbos, too,
> >> but with other mods.
>
> This is amazing! Especially considering, if I'm not mistaken, that
> one of our best drivers, Jack Tertadian, "only" ever achieved a ~12.7
> sec. in the 1/4 mile with stock 9B turbos.
>
> Who on the 11s list had/has stock 9B turbos? Perhaps a short "mods
> list" could go on the "fastest 3S" page.
>
> Oh, and I believe Matt Monett's 11.009 @ 128.75 at the Texas DSM
> Shootout needs to go into second place - DR650r turbos with NOS. No
> race slip? Check out the video:
>
http://www.dynamicracing.com/racing_movies/matt@dynamicracing.com-11.009@128
.75.mpg
> or go to http://www.dynamicracing.com/racing_movies/
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:26:46 -0500
From: "Oskar" <osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos

Well, I have been around since 6/98, even before Team3S was founded.
Actually Bob - I still call my Team3S e-mail folders 'Sirius' :-)

As for your statements - I agree with the times you listed that are in the
12's.  I have run a couple of 12.6s myself.  However, I am still not
convinced that anyone, with or without NOS, has ever run into the 11s on 9B
turbos.

Oskar

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos

> I guess I go back a bit further in the 3S community than some of you do...
> And it's possible that our "Fastest Page" no longer has any of the runs
with
> stock turbos around 12 sec listed (it used to).  My memory isn't perfect,
> *but*:  Mike Mahaffey ran 12.12 or better a couple of times in 98 or 99,
and
> Adam Weltz ran several in the 12.20 range around the same time.  I clearly
> remember a 12.32 for Adam.  And some good numbers for Pete Palamara (in
> '97?), too...  There were a few other guys who claimed to have gotten into
> the high 11's/low 12's on stock turbos, but I don't have the time to check
> the archives.  Let those who aren't convinced do a query on the Search
Page
> around late '98 - spring '99, for starters - we had some lengthy
discussions
> around that time.  (I know it was when Team3S was hosted on the old
> "Sirius.com" server).
>
> I stand by my statement:  many folks have been very close to that magic
> "12.0" number with stock turbos.  Hitting 11's is hard as hell, but not
> impossible on stock turbos.  And if not 11's, 12.12 is pretty damned
close.
> As has been said a few other times, you can do a LOT to our cars to make
> them faster even before doing a turbo swap.
>
> And yes, thanks, Matt Monett has updated his times (with both cars,
> including his 11.74 - '93 Stealth without NOS).  I've updated the Fastest
> Page...  www.Team3S.com/FAQ-fastest.htm  If anyone has newer info for the
> page, please contact me.  I know JackT (xwing) did an 11.219? @ ~125? last
> summer with the new RPS, but I never got the update, so the older time is
> still there.  Sound off with timeslips, dudes and dudettes...!
>
> Best,
>
> Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:21:39 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost

My 95 did not do it either when it had 35,000 miles on it.  However, any
slight overboost past 15psi caused the spark blowout back fires and
hesitation.  I later put the gap at .035, and the power was def lacking with
the higher gap.  My 1/4 mile time droped by 2/10s with just the plug gap
change!

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: Team3S List (E-mail) <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 9:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost


>I'm catching up on e-mail from last week and noticed a discussion (under
the
>ARC II subject) about reduced spark plug gap with increased boost.  I
>noticed several people recommended up to a 25% reduction in plug gap when
>running increased boost to prevent spark blow out.
>
>Is this only if you're running above-stock boost to redline (i.e. not stock
>turbos), or is this for anyone running above-stock boost at any RPM,
>including with stock turbos?
>
>The reason being that I have a BPU '95 VR-4 with a EBC set to hit 13-14psi
>and have the original factory plugs in there (35,000 miles) and have no
>issues with spark blowout.  She purrs like a kitten all the way to redline,
>especially after opening up the exhaust some - in any gear I drive in (I
>rarely get full boost in 5th, let alone 6th, for legal reasons).  No
>stumbling or missing that I can feel.  Am I missing something?  (sorry -
pun
>intended...)
>
>Does anyone know whether the issue is that the voltage in the coil is
>insufficient to cross the gap with increased pressure, or is the recharge
>rate of the coil a factor as well - i.e. spark is fine with 15psi@4000RPM,
>but gets blown out with 15psi@7000RPM because the voltage in the coil
>doesn't peak as high at 7krpm?
>
>--Erik
>'95 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:29:30 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Indiglo Gauges Group Buy

Hey all.

I know there has been a lot of talk about the indiglo gauge faces that have come up on ebay.  I talked to the guy today, and he is
willing to give a discount for a group buy.

They have two different styles, both Turbo and Non-Turbo here is the links to them:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=596551182&r=0&t=0
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=596556266&r=0&t=0

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=596556828&r=0&t=0

I was looking for gauges with VR-4 on it, or something unique, and came up with decals that I printed on my inkjet, that can be put
on there.  The guy was very willing to try them to see if it interfered with the indiglo, and he said they look pretty good.  It
still needs some tweaking of course.

I was hoping he would make up a special set with VR-4 on it, so I wouldn't have to go the low tech route, but no luck there yet.

As soon as I get more information on exact price, I will let you know.

Anthony Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:06:42 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up

Speaking of better boost response, I remember hearing from somebody on the
MKIV list that by backing out timing before positive manifold pressure was
achieved that you could improve spool up.  I want to say it was Jarrett
Humphrey from PHR that had stated he had done this on a car that had a MOTEC
stand alone ECU.  I am wondering that maybe by using an ITC we could pull
timing down low and maybe improve spoolup on bigger turbo's like 355/357
Mags or 368 SX's.  I still do not understand how this would help spool up
(may be denser exhaust gas charge) but hey would anyone want to give it a
try (Roger) ?  I would go out and buy one and give it a whirl but I am still
on stock peashooters so the unit would not help me much :(

Russ F
CT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: noble [SMTP:nketo@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:53 PM
> To: Jim Berry; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st; Roger Gerl
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high end knock
>
>
> I've also noticed that boost response goes through the roof with richer
> mixtures,
> but if knock is the trade off, I'd rather not be so rich.
>
> Have you guys noticed similar conditions on any engines that have been
> damaged because of this?  Or has it been consistently from "lean" mixtures
> or simply too much boost?
>
> Regards,
> Noble

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:26:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up

Thats absolutely possible, an incredible (as compared to other non-boost
modifications) of power can be found in timing.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Furman, Russell wrote:

> Speaking of better boost response, I remember hearing from somebody on the
> MKIV list that by backing out timing before positive manifold pressure was
> achieved that you could improve spool up.  I want to say it was Jarrett
> Humphrey from PHR that had stated he had done this on a car that had a MOTEC
> stand alone ECU.  I am wondering that maybe by using an ITC we could pull
> timing down low and maybe improve spoolup on bigger turbo's like 355/357
> Mags or 368 SX's.  I still do not understand how this would help spool up
> (may be denser exhaust gas charge) but hey would anyone want to give it a
> try (Roger) ?  I would go out and buy one and give it a whirl but I am still
> on stock peashooters so the unit would not help me much :(
>
> Russ F
> CT
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: noble [SMTP:nketo@sympatico.ca]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:53 PM
> > To: Jim Berry; team3s@stealth-3000gt.st; Roger Gerl
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high end knock
> >
> >
> > I've also noticed that boost response goes through the roof with richer
> > mixtures,
> > but if knock is the trade off, I'd rather not be so rich.
> >
> > Have you guys noticed similar conditions on any engines that have been
> > damaged because of this?  Or has it been consistently from "lean" mixtures
> > or simply too much boost?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Noble

Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:24:32 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: FW: Team3S: Carbotech Panther Pad Group Purchase

> Here's the talley updated as of today.  I'm trying to leave this open as
> long as
> possible to give everybody a chance to join in.  Let me know directly if
> you
> have a specific urgency in getting the pads.    I expect to
> install
> new pads for a December event, so you can see that I'll be anxious to
> get
> this turned in well in advance of that.
>
> This should give Ali enough product info to provide us a quote.
>
> The way the purchase will work is that we will individually order
> through
> Ali at Jamn' Motorsports with individual shipping instructions and
> payment
> information.  The pads will arrive where-ever you want them.
>
> Chuck Willis
>
>
> 1994-98 3000GT
>   FRONT  D530
> <one axle set 10/10/01>
>   REAR  D383
> <none requested 10/10/01>
>
> 1991-93 3000GT AND SL
>   FRONT  D530
> <none requested 10/10/01>
>   REAR  D383
> <none requested 10/10/01>
>
> 1994-98 3000GT VR4
>   FRONT  D531
> <two axle sets requested 10/10/01>
>   REAR  D631**
> <three axle sets requested 10/10/01>
>
> ** donor backing plates NO LONGER REQUIRED 10/10/01
>
> 1991-93 3000GT VR4
>   FRONT  D531
> <two axle sets requested 10/9/01>
>   REAR  D532
> <two axle sets requested 10/9/01>
>
> upgrade kits
>
> Porsche Big Red's (1996-97 Porsche 993 TT)
> FRONT D594
> <two axle sets requested 10/10/01>
>
> Ferrari F40 (Stillen Brembo upgrade)
> <one axle set requested 10/10/01>
>
> AP six piston caliper (Stillen upgrade)
> <one axle set requested (possibly two) 10/10/01>
>
> other
>
> Porsche GT2
> <one axle set requested (possibly two) 10/10/01>
>
> Ferrari 512
> <one axle set requested (possibly two) 10/10/01>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:20:56 -0700
From: Michael Crisfield <mcrisfield@ftmcdowell.org>
Subject: Team3S: 3000GTs in NIRA sponsored events

I was wondering if anyone on this list participated or knows anyone
who has participated in NIRA sponsored races.  Looking at their web site it
appears as though there are a few classes 3000GTs can race in but NIRA
doesn't post much there in regards to past participants.  Thanks,
Michael
91 3000GT SL AUTO

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:26:30 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 70w80 Redline ????

Rick - Yes - I am using 70-80MTL with no problems. Jeff recommends mixing
this with MTL 90 but no one around Sacramento sold MTL 90 and I was too lazy
to get it mail order. The regular MTL is working just fine.

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:39:23 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

Chuck - We are talking apples and oranges. From you other posts I know you
take your car to the track. I am sure you are quite correct in reporting
dive and roll on the track. I have no experience at all in this area.

I don't drive "slowly", but I do drive safely. Here, in the Sierra
foothills, we have plenty of twisty, hilly, roads. My Stealth takes these
roads very nicely, and remains very flat, at very high speeds (70-90). The
only cars I can compare it to are my old BMW 635, My old 69 Corvette, and my
current Subaru Legacy. It makes all those cars look like floating washing
machines. But again, it is not a racetrack that I drive on and I am not
saying stock springs and shocks are going to be flat in that arena. Sorry if
there was any confusion.

Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 70w80 Redline ????

I can get anyone any redline fluid..in case quantities.

That case could be 6 10w30, 4 75w90, and two MTL..doesnt matter.  As long
as there's 12 bottles in a case.

You can save even more $ by organizing group-buys in your local area and
build multiple cases where 12 isnt enough/or too much for you to use
yourself...it also spreads out the shipping costs.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Andrew D. Woll wrote:

> Rick - Yes - I am using 70-80MTL with no problems. Jeff recommends mixing
> this with MTL 90 but no one around Sacramento sold MTL 90 and I was too lazy
> to get it mail order. The regular MTL is working just fine.
>
> Andy

Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:15:52 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

Now I understand!

You are right about one thing - the VR4 doesn't ride like my 1963 Chrysler
300!  The VR4 is very surefooted and stable on roads during normal highway
driving.

Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew D. Woll [SMTP:awoll1@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:39 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>
> Chuck - We are talking apples and oranges. From you other posts I know you
> take your car to the track. I am sure you are quite correct in reporting
> dive and roll on the track. I have no experience at all in this area.
>
> I don't drive "slowly", but I do drive safely. Here, in the Sierra
> foothills, we have plenty of twisty, hilly, roads. My Stealth takes these
> roads very nicely, and remains very flat, at very high speeds (70-90). The
> only cars I can compare it to are my old BMW 635, My old 69 Corvette, and
> my
> current Subaru Legacy. It makes all those cars look like floating washing
> machines. But again, it is not a racetrack that I drive on and I am not
> saying stock springs and shocks are going to be flat in that arena. Sorry
> if
> there was any confusion.
>
> Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up

>> I still do not understand how this would help
>> spool up (maybe denser exhaust gas charge)

When timing is retarded, the combustion event moves closer to when
the exhaust valves are open. This means the exhaust gas temp (EGT) is
higher. Higher EGT means more power to spin the turbine wheel (and so
maybe faster spool up). The turbine uses all exhaust gas energy to
spin - potential (heat) and kinetic (particle flow). As I have
mentioned before, this is a dangerous game to play with the turbos
because our (and most) turbos are designed to handle EGT up to
900-950ºC. When I see my EGTs climb past 900ºC I worry more about the
turbos than I do about the engine internals, which handle combustion
temps of 1900-2500ºC.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To: "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up

Speaking of better boost response, I remember hearing from somebody
on the MKIV list that by backing out timing before positive manifold
pressure was achieved that you could improve spool up.  I want to say
it was Jarrett Humphrey from PHR that had stated he had done this on
a car that had a MOTEC stand alone ECU.  I am wondering that maybe by
using an ITC we could pull timing down low and maybe improve spoolup
on bigger turbo's like 355/357 Mags or 368 SX's.  I still do not
understand how this would help spool up (may be denser exhaust gas
charge) but hey would anyone want to give it a try (Roger) ?  I would
go out and buy one and give it a whirl but I am still on stock
peashooters so the unit would not help me much :(

Russ F
CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:51:41 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up

OK, well based on this information I personally would have to do a balancing
act and keep the EGT's below 850C (pre turbo), in theory we should be
alright correct me here if necessary Jeff.  With winter coming here in the
NE I will have lots of time to play and think about how to improve
performance while not giving up too much reliability.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Lucius [SMTP:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:42 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up
>
> >> I still do not understand how this would help
> >> spool up (maybe denser exhaust gas charge)
>
> When timing is retarded, the combustion event moves closer to when
> the exhaust valves are open. This means the exhaust gas temp (EGT) is
> higher. Higher EGT means more power to spin the turbine wheel (and so
> maybe faster spool up). The turbine uses all exhaust gas energy to
> spin - potential (heat) and kinetic (particle flow). As I have
> mentioned before, this is a dangerous game to play with the turbos
> because our (and most) turbos are designed to handle EGT up to
> 900-950ºC. When I see my EGTs climb past 900ºC I worry more about the
> turbos than I do about the engine internals, which handle combustion
> temps of 1900-2500ºC.
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
> To: "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:06 AM
> Subject: Team3S: was high end knock NOW Improving Turbo Spool Up
>
> Speaking of better boost response, I remember hearing from somebody
> on the MKIV list that by backing out timing before positive manifold
> pressure was achieved that you could improve spool up.  I want to say
> it was Jarrett Humphrey from PHR that had stated he had done this on
> a car that had a MOTEC stand alone ECU.  I am wondering that maybe by
> using an ITC we could pull timing down low and maybe improve spoolup
> on bigger turbo's like 355/357 Mags or 368 SX's.  I still do not
> understand how this would help spool up (may be denser exhaust gas
> charge) but hey would anyone want to give it a try (Roger) ?  I would
> go out and buy one and give it a whirl but I am still on stock
> peashooters so the unit would not help me much :(
>
> Russ F
> CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:18:24 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: TurboXS race bypass valve

All -

Does anyone on the list have any experience with the TurboXS race bypass
valve?  It's recirculating and the company says it'll fit without a flange
or anything.  Any comparisons between this and the GReddy bypass valve?

- - Brian

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:16:56 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Poor man's TD05 upgrade

In trying to make my Stealth into the greatest hack-job on earth, I've
decided to try a low-buck TD05 upgrade. $2000 worth of headers does not fall
under "low buck". Does anyone know of a stock turbo exhaust manifold that
has been modified to accept a 4 bolt TD05 turbo? My idea is to basically
build an adaptor that has a 3 bolt flange on one and a 4 bolt flange on the
other with maybe an inch or two of pipe in the middle. I can't just weld a 4
bolt flange onto the stock manifold (at least in the rear) because the
turbos need additional clearance near the heads.

Also, based on the charts on Jeff Lucius' page, I figure a pair of 14Bs
should be good for 15 psi at redline.  Am I correct?  16Gs or larger would
be ideal for high boost, but since 14Bs are what I have for my fitment work,
they'll have to do for now.

BTW, if anyone has a pair of stock manifolds they'd like to part with,
please e-mail me privately to discuss it.

Don't be shy.  If you think I'm out of my mind, say so.  If you think I'm
brilliant, you may express your praise in the form of monetary donations :)

Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:18:47 -0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@schappell.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: TurboXS race bypass valve

I have one on my Stealth and like it.  It fits fine, no interference with
shift linkage.  It's not as loud as some BOV's but you can hear a difference
over stock.  There was a big improvement over stock and the price can't be
beat.

Kevin Schappell
http://kevin.schappell.com
Save money on all of your speed parts.
http://www.SpeedShoppers.com

> Does anyone on the list have any experience with the TurboXS race bypass
> valve?  It's recirculating and the company says it'll fit without a flange
> or anything.  Any comparisons between this and the GReddy bypass valve?
>
> - Brian

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:33:49 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Poor man's TD05 upgrade

> In trying to make my Stealth into the greatest hack-job on
> earth, I've decided to try a low-buck TD05 upgrade. $2000
> worth of headers does not fall under "low buck". Does anyone
> know of a stock turbo exhaust manifold that has been modified
> to accept a 4 bolt TD05 turbo? My idea is to basically build
> an adaptor that has a 3 bolt flange on one and a 4 bolt
> flange on the other with maybe an inch or two of pipe in the
> middle. I can't just weld a 4 bolt flange onto the stock
> manifold (at least in the rear) because the turbos need
> additional clearance near the heads.

I suppose you could somehow hack a flange plate on the stock manifolds, but
you'll need to mess with oil/coolant feed/return lines as well.  Wouldn't a
16G/14B be upside-down on the rear bank for the oil feed/return?  Don't
forget to fabricate pre-cat eliminators as the factory O2 housings/precats
won't bolt onto the 14B/16G (as far as I remember).

> Don't be shy.  If you think I'm out of my mind, say so.  If
> you think I'm brilliant, you may express your praise in the
> form of monetary donations :)

Okay, you are out of your mind.  8-)  Just get 15G's and bolt them on -
project complete.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:35:39 -0400
From: Rudy Morales <rumcu@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Subject: Team3S: For Sale 91 Stealth ES near NYC

Hi all, I need to sell my car due to recent events.
I wanted to offer it to the list members first.

I am asking $4,000 - 1991 Stealth ES
For photos and details please go to:

http://www.wholesaletiles.com/stealth

Thanks to all for the good advice through the years,
I have learned a lot about our cars.

Rudy

Rudy Morales

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:01:28 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost

> hotter than the average.   But hey what do I know.... I would love to see
> some one test the output of their high mileage coil packs and compare it
to
> new OEM units and see the results

This is why we upgrade to Acell Coils and aftermarket ignition amplifiers.
The onyl cure for sprak problems at the moment.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:45:31 -0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Poor man's TD05 upgrade

"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:

> Wouldn't a 16G/14B be upside-down on the rear bank for the oil feed/return?
> Don't
> forget to fabricate pre-cat eliminators as the factory O2 housings/precats
> won't bolt onto the 14B/16G (as far as I remember).

Jeff, Matt, and others,

The center section can be rotated to any desired position once the tiny pins
are removed that locate the compressor housing w.r.t. center section etc.
There will be added expense for new coolant banjo fittings (larger than TD04)
and larger oil feeds.  The O2 housings will need to be all new, on the FB you
could use the DSM O2 housing but then you still have to make a custom precat /
downpipe to bolt up.  If you want to keep stock intercooler routing, the
compressor housing will need to be rotated 180 from how you received them from
the DSM which means the wastegate mounting will have to change by an equal
amount.  Even after rotating them you'll have to modifiy the intercooler piping
to make a good connection.  Hopefully you can find a good source for bolts, if
you need to buy all new bolts from Mitsubishi for the turbo and exhaust, you'll
spend over $100 there alone.

Good luck, did you ever follow up on the lead I gave you?  Mike Knuelle did it
(TD05 turbos on a 3S) many years ago about as low buck as possible.

Joe Gonsowski
'92 & '96 R/T TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:08:01 -0700
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 70w80 Redline ????

 Thanks,I don't see why there would be any problems.I always have thought 90wt
was too heavy anyway.
RICK
'92 R/T TT

"Andrew D. Woll" wrote:

> Rick - Yes - I am using 70-80MTL with no problems. Jeff recommends mixing
> this with MTL 90 but no one around Sacramento sold MTL 90 and I was too lazy
> to get it mail order. The regular MTL is working just fine.
>
> Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:31:27 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Testing a pressure plate

Hi all -

Anyone know of a way to test a pressure plate, when out of the car?  I
was thinking maybe take it to a truck machine shop, and have them put it
on a press.  I'm really not a highly 'machine shop' educated guy, yet..

Thanks!

- --
Ken Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed transmission  (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:55:16 EDT
From: Sportsmobile101@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Car still won't start update.

  Hi team, thanks for all the responses i've received, i appreciate it.  I
still haven't been able to start the car, but i think i may have found the
problem.  Everyone seems to agree that it is an electrical problem.  So i had
my buddy borrow a scanner and hooked it up the computer in my car, and i got
a 13 code and a 25 code.  The first code said i had a bad Barometric pressure
sensor problem , and in the book it said tha it was located in the Mass
airflow sensor housing.  The other code said i had an air intake temp cicuit
problem also in the Mass Air Flow sensor.  Now my question is, can i trust
the scanner and buy a 400 dollar sensor?  Or is there a way to find out for
sure that that is the problem.  It would be simple if i knew someone with a
3000GT in the area that would be willing to let me just hook up the sensor to
test it.  But i don't know anyone that has these cars.  Any suggestions??
Please let me know. Thanks.
Truly,
Christian.
92 SL

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:02:40 EDT
From: DiABLoCarAudio@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: 91-95 Stillen Downpipe

Hey guys, this is just an answer to a question that's been asked many times
on this list about the Stillen Downpipe. 
Q: If the rear cat flange position of the 91-93 3/S models is different from
the rear cat flange position of the 93-95 3/S models, how come Stillen lists
one part for 91-95 models?
A: The rear flange of the downpipe is shaped to accomodate either model cat
and has 4 bolt holes to accomodate for either two bolts you will need to use.
 
The Stillen DP is made of huge Stainless Steel Piping.  I can't imagine how
any other pipe can be more free-flowing or better quality.  There are bungs
welded in for those who need to put in their O2 Sensors and Stillen is kind
enough to provide plugs for these holes if needed and Factory Mitsu DP
Gaskets. 
I still can get these pipes for a good price if anyone wants one, but keep in
mind, they are not street legal since they eliminate the main cat and front
"pre-cat"

Paul Butkiewicz
Diablo Enterprises
Norwood, MA  02062-4012
Phone/Fax (781) 769-4180
http://www.DiabloCarAudio.com/
http://www.DiabloEnterprises.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car still won't start update.

Hi Sport,

Where do you live?  There is probably a list member
close.

Good name BTW.

Be of good cheer,
John Christian
in Pittsburgh PA


- --- Sportsmobile101@aol.com wrote:
>   Hi team, thanks for all the responses i've
> received, i appreciate it.  I
> still haven't been able to start the car, but i
> think i may have found the
> problem.  Everyone seems to agree that it is an
> electrical problem.  So i had
> my buddy borrow a scanner and hooked it up the
> computer in my car, and i got
> a 13 code and a 25 code.  The first code said i had
> a bad Barometric pressure
> sensor problem , and in the book it said tha it was
> located in the Mass
> airflow sensor housing.  The other code said i had
> an air intake temp cicuit
> problem also in the Mass Air Flow sensor.  Now my
> question is, can i trust
> the scanner and buy a 400 dollar sensor?  Or is
> there a way to find out for
> sure that that is the problem.  It would be simple
> if i knew someone with a
> 3000GT in the area that would be willing to let me
> just hook up the sensor to
> test it.  But i don't know anyone that has these
> cars.  Any suggestions??
> Please let me know. Thanks.
> Truly,
> Christian.
> 92 SL

Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 91-95 Stillen Downpipe

Hi Paul,

Does the Stillen pipe have any flexpipe section (like
the stock) to absorb vibration/stress and prevent
cracking?

I had several custom downpipes made which crack.  Next
design will have a SS braided flex section.

Be of good cheer,
John

- --- DiABLoCarAudio@aol.com wrote:

> The Stillen DP is made of huge Stainless Steel
> Piping.  I can't imagine how
> any other pipe can be more free-flowing or better
> quality.  There are bungs
> welded in for those who need to put in their O2
> Sensors and Stillen is kind
>
>
> Paul Butkiewicz

Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:36:17 EDT
From: Sportsmobile101@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: car won't start

   Darc i did check the connection a couple of times, i also cleaned the
connectors just to make sure but no luck.  I think i did tried to start the
car with it unplugged but no results either.  I live in Santa Rosa, CA if
anyone from the list lives around here drop me a note.  By the way Santa Rosa
is about 45 miles north of San Francisco.  Rich do you know which store would
carry this sensor? I tried Kragen and Pep-boys but they dont' sell it.  The
dealer wants close to $400 fot it and all buys are final.  Please advice.
Thanks.
Christian.
92 SL.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:04:04 -0700
From: "MThompson" <mathompson@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: File Fitting Rings

Hello Folks!

Question - I am looking for someone who is capable of file fitting my new
rings to my new Ross pistons.  I live in Orange County, CA and would like to
find someone semi-locally [within 100 miles].  Any suggestions would help.
Although I will try most anyone if they come highly recommended and can do
it within the next few weeks.

Regards,

Mark

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:23:20 -0700
From: Bob Forrest <bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: car won't start

Go to our FAQ pages and look in the Basics section for "New & Used
Replacement Parts".  There are a couple of good scrap guys around
Sacramento-- Give them a call.
www.Team3S.com/FAQ.htm

Good luck,

Forrest

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Sportsmobile101@aol.com>
>    Darc i did check the connection a couple of times, i also cleaned
the connectors just to make sure but no luck.  I think i did tried to
start the car with it unplugged but no results either.  I live in
Santa Rosa, CA if  anyone from the list lives around here drop me a
note.  By the way Santa Rosa is about 45 miles north of San Francisco.
Rich do you know which store would carry this sensor? I tried Kragen
and Pep-boys but they dont' sell it.  The dealer wants close to $400
for it and all buys are final.  Please advise.
> Thanks.
> Christian.
> 92 SL.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:30:41 -0700
From: Bob Forrest <bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Oskar" <osk@mediaone.net>
> Well, I have been around since 6/98, even before Team3S was founded.
Actually Bob - I still call my Team3S e-mail folders 'Sirius' :-)
> As for your statements - I agree with the times you listed that are
in the 12's.  I have run a couple of 12.6s myself.  However, I am
still not convinced that anyone, with or without NOS, has ever run
into the 11s on 9B turbos.
> Oskar

I hear ya...  None of us were convinced then, either, even though
claims were made.  :-)  But the point was that since so many
*documented* cases of early 12's are known, that it's reasonable to
say that 11's are "possible" on stock turbos.  Maybe even without
NOS...  Just because we haven't figured it out yet does not mean it's
impossible.

Merritt's post on Monday is worth rereading, IMO, "When we tried to
put a manual boost controller on my stock 94 VR4, we couldn't make it
work. It shot up to 21 psi boost (as high as the gauge would go) and
took off like a rocket ship until the Y-pipe blew off. I have never
been in any car that accelerated like that -- including a 427
Corvette.  My mechanic, who was an experienced Porsche wrench, said it
was the fastest thing he had ever been in, including modded TT AWD
Porsches."

That's what I felt when I test drove the Dodge salesman's own "almost
stock" '94 TT when I was shopping for my car in '94.  I've never felt
anything as fast in a 'stock' production car except in a Viper or my
original Cobra.  I never did find out what he had done (or if he was
just chancing dangerous boost to make a sale).  From running blown
'C-Gas' a gazillion years ago, I know what 11's feel like, and I
remember looking back that day in that '94 TT to check for a rollbar.
Again, quoting Rich's post, "I suspect that if we tied the Y-pipe on
somehow and the engine stayed together long enough with all that
boost, it mighta turned in the 11s.  It turns 13.5 now, so 11s are
certainly within reach."

I concur.  We're all searching for that "formula" and one of these
days, someone's gonna figure it out.  Being an ex-engineer, I'm
guessing it might be simpler than any of us thought.  JMHO...

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:26:27 -0500
From: "Eric Cheek" <echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car still won't start update.

Christian,
For what its worth, when I installed my FIPK, I forgot to re-attach the
harness to the MAS air flow sensor. The car would still start and run, but
idled horribly. It might be possible that the computer has a default setting
it uses when it can't talk to the MAS? Try just unplugging the MAS and see
if it will start.

Eric Cheek, 92 VR4 current Mods K&N FIPK

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Sportsmobile101@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:55 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Car still won't start update.

  Hi team, thanks for all the responses i've received, i appreciate it.  I
still haven't been able to start the car, but i think i may have found the
problem.  Everyone seems to agree that it is an electrical problem.  So i
had
my buddy borrow a scanner and hooked it up the computer in my car, and i got
a 13 code and a 25 code.  The first code said i had a bad Barometric
pressure
sensor problem , and in the book it said tha it was located in the Mass
airflow sensor housing.  The other code said i had an air intake temp cicuit
problem also in the Mass Air Flow sensor.  Now my question is, can i trust
the scanner and buy a 400 dollar sensor?  Or is there a way to find out for
sure that that is the problem.  It would be simple if i knew someone with a
3000GT in the area that would be willing to let me just hook up the sensor
to
test it.  But i don't know anyone that has these cars.  Any suggestions??
Please let me know. Thanks.
Truly,
Christian.
92 SL

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #642
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