Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, October 9
2001 Volume 01 : Number
641
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:23:12 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
This site has good details on
mods, along with times.
http://www.dragtimes.com/index2.htmlKurt
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff VanOrsdal
[mailto:jeffv@1nce.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:05 PM
To: Team3s
Tech List; Oskar
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock
turbos
I'm pretty sure the record for stock turbos, no N2O is 12.2
seconds. I'll
see if I can get the details on it. This was Rich
Bauer's old 1g Stealth.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:53:59
-0400
From: "Brian Collins" <
bcturbo@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Front Axle Driveshaft Problem: B.J. Assy.
I recently removed my
transmission following the tips on Jeff Lucius'
website. When I disconnected
the driver side control arm and pulled the
driveshaft out of the
transmission, I noticed something came loose in the
"B.J. boot" (the boot
right next to the hub). When I disconnected the boot I
found that the shaft
inside the boot had come out of the part that is
attached to the hub. There
is a groove and spring c-clip on the end of the
shaft. The c-clip is the
exact size of the c-clip that holds the passenger
side driveshaft into the
transmission.
Does anyone know if it would be okay to simply put on a new
c-clip and
reinsert the shaft into the female splines on the part that
attached to the
hub? When I looked in the repair manual, it said "the B.J.
assembly cannot
be disassembled" but it came apart pretty easily. I assume
that since the
passenger side driveshaft simply "pops" back into the
transmission with a
similiar c-clip that it would be okay to do the same
thing here. Anyone have
any knowledge or insight on this problem?
Thanks.
Brian
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:11:54
-0400
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Front
Axle Driveshaft Problem: B.J. Assy.
yes, pop it back into place.. you
should be fine. don't think you'll need a
new C-clip either.. if it's still
in good condition and still larger then
the male splined shaft.
Omar
Malik
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Brian Collins
Sent: Monday,
October 08, 2001 8:54 PM
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Team3S: Front Axle Driveshaft Problem: B.J. Assy.
I recently removed my
transmission following the tips on Jeff Lucius'
website. When I disconnected
the driver side control arm and pulled the
driveshaft out of the
transmission, I noticed something came loose in the
"B.J. boot" (the boot
right next to the hub). When I disconnected the boot I
found that the shaft
inside the boot had come out of the part that is
attached to the hub. There
is a groove and spring c-clip on the end of the
shaft. The c-clip is the
exact size of the c-clip that holds the passenger
side driveshaft into the
transmission.
Does anyone know if it would be okay to simply put on a new
c-clip and
reinsert the shaft into the female splines on the part that
attached to the
hub? When I looked in the repair manual, it said "the B.J.
assembly cannot
be disassembled" but it came apart pretty easily. I assume
that since the
passenger side driveshaft simply "pops" back into the
transmission with a
similiar c-clip that it would be okay to do the same
thing here. Anyone have
any knowledge or insight on this problem?
Thanks.
Brian
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:49:47
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
Hi Oskar,
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538/jtc.htmlBest
1/4 mile 12.46 sec @ 109.4 MPH 5/97
Best 60' 1.737 sec
That's the best I did at Norwalk on 5/97 with 9gs no
nos or other
fancy stuff. Just a manual boost
controller and a track
exhaust.
I even beat the famous Jack T ... well for a
while
anyhow.
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- Oskar <
osk@mediaone.net> wrote:
> What is
the fastest time anyone has run a 3/S on
> stock turbos? Anyone
in
> the 11's? I am not concerned about other mods, just
> the
fact that there are
> still 9Bs on the car.
>
>
Oskar
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:04:14
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
Rich Bauer went
12.3@112 with stock turbos, stock pump and stock
injectors.
As far as I know, he didn't have a whole lot outside a partial
carbon
driveshaft, a VPC/AFC and a downpipe.
Jeff V.
1991 Stealth
ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of John Christian
Sent: Monday,
October 08, 2001 9:50 PM
To: Oskar; Team3S
Cc:
jczooom@hotmail.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
Hi Oskar,
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538/jtc.htmlBest
1/4 mile 12.46 sec @ 109.4 MPH 5/97
Best 60' 1.737
sec
That's the best I did at Norwalk on 5/97 with 9gs no
nos or other
fancy stuff. Just a manual boost
controller and a track
exhaust.
I even beat the famous Jack T ... well for a
while
anyhow.
Be of good cheer,
John
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2001 19:06:29
-0700
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: engine wont start ,timing
I know from persoanlly expereince
that a 91 VR4 will run with the timing completly (15-20 degrees) off at
idle).
To make a long story short, I rebuilt my engine and set the crank
angle sensor in the same position it was in when I tore the engine apart.
Adjusted so that the slot was just barely visible BELOW the adjustment
nut. I assumed I wouldn't be more than 2-3 degrees off.
NEVER
ASSUME ANYTHING. I broke the engine in for 500 mile w/o even getting the
boost gauge above about 3 psi. I noticed a little hesitation and the power
seemed a little low but I was driving it so easy I couldn't tell for sure.
When the break-in was over I punched it and.... sputter sputter go. Nasty
hesitation, but once the RPMS hit 3000 no problems except the power seemed
lacking. I check the idle (after grounding out the timing terminal) and I
couldn't see the timing mark. I had an advance adjustable timing light and
adjusted it all the way, still not timing mark. I turned the advance back
to 0 and the timing mark showed up bout 10 degress below the bottom of the
scale. I adjusted the Crank angle sensor on the heads until there was just
barely any slot showing ABOVE the adjustment nut.
Drove the car and WOW!
what a differnce,no hesitation and the power was back. Turned my new
Manual Boost Controller up to to 13.5psi (VDO gage) and WOW! the power was
better than ever.
So even with the timing off about as far as possible
the engine still started easily and drove half decent.
John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:02:40
+0200
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: More Power
(reposting due to weekend delivery
problems)
> Roger and Jim, back in the stone age, ran AWD dyno tests
to check horsepower
> on these cars and reported back. Adding
modifications like an Apexi BC and
> the K&N FIPK , and
running at 15psi, without any other mods, gave a few
> ponies under
410 to Jim's 94 Stealth. No other mods had been done.
The 406 SAE HP
figure was regrettably inflated due to an erroneous DIN -> SAE conversion
factor.
The correct figure is 367 SAE HP (see my web page for details), which
is more in line with how the
car feels on the road and accelerates relative
to other vehicles.
Nearly half of the 86k miles now on my engine were
racked up with the same setup (signature below).
Performance has been
consistent (except for the boost controller not working at high altitudes)
and
reliability has been perfect. While I would love to increase power
and reduce EGTs on the Autobahn
through turbo and fuel upgrades, I remain too
concerned about incessant tuning and compromised
reliability to make the
leap. I would be surprised if others weren't in the same
boat.
While it is interesting to measure engine behavior and adjust fuel
response accordingly, this is
something I'd rather do ONCE, especially for a
car that is daily transportation (and that my wife
sometimes drives - she has
NO interest in engine tuning!). I don't want to use one setting
for
starting the car, another setting for when it warms up, different
settings for different
temperatures, altitudes, etc. I can see how such
interaction might be necessary for cars tuned to
the absolute limit, but that
is not my objective. Loss of convenience is certainly a factor
when
calculating the threshold of diminishing return.
For years we
have seen discussions on Team3S of VPC, AFC, ARC, MASC, Haltech, etc., but I
remain
unconvinced that any of these solutions meet my requirements.
Matt Jannusch's recent post on fuel
delivery in the "HKS VPC or Split Second
ARC2" thread makes the issue sound straightforward, so I'm
not sure what the
problem is. If this is so hard, I can't imagine what went into development
of the
stock management system. Hell, maybe we should just come up with
a package component upgrade with
an attractive/marketable price-performance
ratio and hire the original Mitsu engineers to come up
with an appropriately
enhanced ECU!?
As for reliability, an engine rebuild is something I would
rather do when things are worn out, not
prematurely broken. That I
can't monitor knock on my hybrid ODB ECU certainly doesn't
boost
confidence. I am very grateful to those on the list who have
sacrificed engines to increase our
knowledge base, but how many highly
modified cars (turbos, fuel and enough boost to make it
worthwhile) have seen
tens of thousands of miles with few reliability problems?
- - --
Jim
Matthews - Munich, Germany
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com (64 Kbps
ISDN)
http://www.the-matthews.com***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R v.1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
Cryoed rotors, R4S pads,
braided lines, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 05:58:07
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More Power
Yes I am very interested also. How can we regrind
our cams (or use a
different grind) to get 10% more top end? Specs?
Dyno?
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
"'Richard'" <
radanc@home.com>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, October 06, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: More
Power
> A nice cam regrind will improve top end by about 10% or
so
> without low end sacrifice.
Got any specs you can
share?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:06:27
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More Power
>> I believe the car has enough fuel stock
to run
>> 13gs at 15psi.
NO! It is very dangerous to run 13G (or
larger) turbos in our cars
near their limits (or 15 psi to redline) with the
stock fuel system.
In my book, the fuel pump and injectors (with a
controller) should be
upgraded first, maybe before even maxing out the stock
turbos. But
definitely 15 psi at 6000+ RPM is very dangerous using the stock
pump
(except maybe if you are supplying it with a guarantied 13.5+
volts,
but by then the stock injectors are too small).
Details on
pumps:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
To: "Thomas Jeys"
<
tj@jeys.net>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: More
Power
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:24:35
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fw: high end knock
Knock from too-rich mixtures has been
reported on the TMO list. I
don't know what the exact mechanics of that would
be.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "noble" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
To: "Team3S"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, October 08, 2001 5:34 PM
Subject: Team3S: Fw: high end
knock
Hi Everyone,
Datalogging my car the other day, I noticed
high end knock with 720cc
injectors on 15g turbos.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:35:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car stil won't start, please help.
>> If timing were
even a little off, the car would at
>> least still run, if it were WAY
off, you would have
>> bent valves and scarred pistons
Not
necessarily.
My CAS was WAY off over 60º advance (just about at the
limit of the
wrong way of travel in the bracket) and no engine damage. After
my
engine rebuild the mechanic had not adjusted the CAS correctly
(V8
guy). When I put a timing light on it, I could not get the marks
to
line up with the dial back set at 60º (max allowed). I had
problems
with knock and poor idle, but no engine damage and it started and
ran
"OK".
The ECM must only take advice from the CAS and not treat the
data as
gospel. I don't know how my engine could have run at all with a
real
60º timing advance. It was amazing to hear the engine smooth out as
I
reduced basic timing back to 5º.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
To: "pro" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, October 08, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car stil won't start,
please help.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 09:01:41
-0500
From: "Mark Wendlandt" <
stealth_tt@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car stil won't start, please help.
Two different "timings"
being discussed here.
Mechanical-valve timing and Electrical-ignition
timing. Very different from
each other. Adjusting the CAS
changes the ignition timing which will not
cause the pistons to kiss the
valves. Timing belt on the other
hand....would.
Mark
'91RT/TT
>
> >> If
timing were even a little off, the car would at
> >> least still
run, if it were WAY off, you would have
> >> bent valves and scarred
pistons
>
>Not necessarily.
>
>My CAS was WAY off over
60º advance (just about at the limit of the
>wrong way of travel in the
bracket) and no engine damage.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:12:31
-0400
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Car
stil won't start, please help.
> >> If timing were even a little
off, the car would at
> >> least still run, if it were WAY off, you
would have
> >> bent valves and scarred pistons
>
> Not
necessarily.
>
> My CAS was WAY off over 60: advance (just about at
the limit of the
> wrong way of travel in the bracket) and no engine
damage. After my
> engine rebuild the mechanic had not adjusted the CAS
correctly (V8
> guy). When I put a timing light on it, I could not get the
marks to
> line up with the dial back set at 60: (max allowed). I had
problems
> with knock and poor idle, but no engine damage and it started
and ran
> "OK".
>
> The ECM must only take advice from the CAS
and not treat the data as
> gospel. I don't know how my engine could have
run at all with a real
> 60: timing advance. It was amazing to hear the
engine smooth out as I
> reduced basic timing back to 5:.
>
>
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.comI'm sorry, I
should have been a little more specific.. I meant if the timing
were
physically off.. as in timing belt had skipped teeth.
Omar
Malik
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 09:19:12
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More Power
>> I believe the car has enough fuel stock
to run
>> 13gs at 15psi.
> NO! It is very dangerous to run
13G (or larger)
> turbos in our cars near their limits (or 15 psi
>
to redline) with the stock fuel system.
I'm going to agree with Jeff
wholeheartedly on this one. At a BARE minimum
you need an upgraded fuel
pump to do 15 psi with upgraded turbos. Even with
that, the injector
duty cycle is really high at 15 psi and big-turbo airflow
rates. I hit
fuel cut several times at 15 psi with my 15G's and stock
injectors even with
the fuel pump upgrade. You can probably get away with
running it
temporarily (ie: making sure the turbos and all is working
properly before
upgrading the injectors), but my opinion is that if you are
upgrading turbos
then the fuel system needs to be upgraded along with it -
at least for sure
with 15G's. I don't have personal experience with 13G's.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:44:01
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts
>> Why is this not important?
The amount of air the turbo flows is much more complicated than
the
compressor/turbine wheel/shaft RPM. Factors such as compressor
wheel
size and design and turbine wheel size and A/R contribute. I
can
vaguely guess that you think the same exhaust flow will push more
air
out of a 15G than a 9B. Maybe, maybe not. But it is
inconsequential.
Engine performance is affected by boost pressure much more
than
turbine/compressor wheel speed. 15 psi is the same (at the same
temp
and RPM) no matter which turbo it comes from or how fast the
turbine
is spinning.
Also a 9B or nearly ANY turbo spinning at 20,000
RPM flows almost no
air. :) Things don't get interesting till 50-60,000
RPM.
Turbo info and flow maps:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <
whietala@prodigy.net>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, October 05, 2001 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut
Thoughts
At 07:42 AM 10/5/01 , Roger Gerl wrote:
>>
>> As we all know larger turbos flow more air than smaller
>>
>> turbos at the same compressor rpm/boost.
>>
>>REALLY?
Or perhaps I misunderstand. Let me re-phrase what you meant
>>to say:
larger turbos will flow more air into the engine than
smaller
>>ones
at the same engine RPM and boost level. Correct? How does
this
>>happen?
>
>Jeff, he speaks of compressor rpm/boost
but it is not important.
What i meant was compressor RPM, not engine. For
example a 9b turbo
spinning @ 20,000 RPM will flow less air than a 13g, 15g,
17c, 20g,
etc. etc. at the same 20,000. Why is this not important? I think
it
is important, because a person may think that since he/she can
run
18psi on stock turbos, they can do the same with larger turbos,
which
may or may not be true, depending on their
setup.
Wayne
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 15:51:02
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fw: high end knock
I don't have any add on this too, no idea
why more fuel would add knock...
but this could explain some strange
datalogs I have where I increased fuel
for less knock and knock got
increased !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 06:24 09.10.2001 -0700, Jeff
Lucius wrote:
>Knock from too-rich mixtures has been reported on the TMO
list. I
>don't know what the exact mechanics of that would
be.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:30:46
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 70w80 Redline ????
Rick - I have been using redline MTL now for
about 200 miles. It feels
great. My trans rattled at idle before changing to
red line. It still
rattles at idle on occasion, but changing to MTL has
definitly reduced the
rattle and shifts are smoother. On the other hand the
trans still is not a
really smooth shifter. My old VW's shifted a lot
smoother. Of course, I
wasn't controlling 300 hp in the
VW.
Andy
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:50:31
-0700
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: More boost in 1st gear!
I understand that the 357 turbos are
bigger than stock, so it takes a little
more to spool them up. I
changed the settings on my Blitz DSBC and set the
gain up to 35 (this used to
be 12 with my stock turbos to prevent
overboosting). Now, I can hit
1.12 kg/cm2 in FIRST gear! Better yet, this
doesn't cause overboosting
in any gear. I usually leave the ratio at 55 for
pump gas and
methanol/water injection and average around 1.2 kg/cm2
depending on the temps
outside. This seems to have made a huge difference
in power as the car
pulls very hard through first gear now.
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:00:21
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More boost in 1st gear!
Hey Rich and anyone else with a DSBC/
SBCi-D what is your guys opinion of
the units? I have an AVC-R
currently but I just had to retune this stupid
thing for the third time this
year. It seems like as soon as I get more than
a 30 deg F fluctuation I have
to either retune third gear only or retune the
whole unit including gear
specific start duty cycles. This is getting
old...do the Blitz units control
boost well? I.E. set it so it just hits
your target boost, and it will
hold your target (within reason) to redline?
I do not want to have to retune
this thing come Christmas, 140 in fourth in
the dead of winter is not my idea
of a good time ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Rich Fowler [SMTP:richfowler2@home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001
11:51 AM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: More boost in 1st gear!
>
" I changed the settings on
my Blitz DSBC and set the
> gain up to 35 (this used to be 12 with my
stock turbos to prevent
> overboosting). Now, I can hit 1.12 kg/cm2
in FIRST gear! Better yet,
> this
> doesn't cause overboosting
in any gear. I usually leave the ratio at 55
> for
> pump gas
and methanol/water injection and average around 1.2 kg/cm2
> depending on
the temps outside. This seems to have made a huge difference
> in
power as the car pulls very hard through first gear now. "
>
>
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 18:05:34
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More boost in 1st gear!
At 08:50 09.10.2001 -0700, Rich
Fowler wrote:
>I understand that the 357 turbos are bigger than stock, so
it takes a little
>more to spool them up.
Magnums or not
?
> I changed the settings on my Blitz DSBC and set
the
>gain up to 35 (this used to be 12 with my stock turbos to
prevent
>overboosting).
This is correct : bigger turbos = higher
gain
> Now, I can hit 1.12 kg/cm2 in FIRST gear!
Better yet, this
>doesn't cause overboosting in any gear.
I
wouldn't count on that as downshifting could cause an overboost quickly.
Just turn the limiter soethign dow to make sure you don't overboost
much.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:52:19
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Wheel spacer
Does anyone know of a source of
wheel spacers for my VR4 besides H&R
Springs.
They
have a 6 week lead time on the 5 mm spacer I
want.
Thanks,
Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:34:22
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
> What is the
fastest time anyone has run a 3/S on stock turbos? Anyone in
the
11's? I am not concerned about other mods, just the fact that there
are
still 9Bs on the car.
> Oskar
- -------------->
All of
the folks who ran in the 11's were modified, but several of them had
stock
turbos. More than 1/2 the times in the 12's were on stock turbos,
too,
but with other mods. You know a lot of these folks from the list,
so
just go and look at what times they turned. The most accurate
and
up-to-date "Fastest Page" is on our site:
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-fastest.htmBest,
Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:40:00
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rattling gearbox
Hi Chuck: Yes, my dentist has a Ferrari
308 and let me drive it. Very
powerful - Very fast. But I was constantly
worried about the thing self
destructing. My Stealth didn't cost me an arm
and a leg so I don't feel like
I have to baby it. If it breaks, so be
it.
As to flat turns, yes, I have stock springs. In sport mode it might
as well
have no springs. Am I missing something?
Andy
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:56:06
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Forged
connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Due to the tireless research and
dedication of one Kenneth Ellis, we now
have proof that the 2nd gen blocks
did indeed come with forged connecting
rods.
From page 6 of the 1994
Dodge Dealer Product Information Manual (emphasis
mine):
"The engine
itself is a 60-degree V6 design for less noise and vibration
plus a compact
layout. The iron block uses ribbed exterior walls for high
stregnth,
reliability and durability, while it's thin-wall and short skirt
construction
reduce weight. The pistons are thinwall aluminum alloy
reinforced with
steel struts for peak stregnth and minimal weight. The
BLOCK ALSO USES
FORGED CONNECTING RODS and crankshaft beam bearing caps for
greater strength
and less vibration."
Scans of this manual should be on-line sometime this
evening for the
doubters among us.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX
Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:07:38
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
Thanks for the info Bob. I
believe, however, that none of the people listed
in the 11's accomplished
their times on stock turbos.
Oskar
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
>
>
All of the folks who ran in the 11's were modified, but several of
them
had
> stock turbos. More than 1/2 the times in the 12's were
on stock turbos,
> too, but with other mods. You know a lot of these
folks from the list, so
> just go and look at what times they
turned. The most accurate and
> up-to-date "Fastest Page" is on our
site:
>
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-fastest.htm>
>
Best,
>
> Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:01:15
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Does it
specify - Twin Turbo, or all models? Cause that would be really
cool if
all models came with forged rods... :) We could never be
so
lucky.
Has anyone actually heard of a stock rod going bad or
breaking?
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff VanOrsdal
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:56 PM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: Team3S:
Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Due to the tireless
research and dedication of one Kenneth Ellis, we now
have proof that the 2nd
gen blocks did indeed come with forged
connecting
rods.
From page 6
of the 1994 Dodge Dealer Product Information
Manual
(emphasis
mine):
"The engine itself is a 60-degree V6 design
for less noise and vibration
plus a compact layout. The iron block uses
ribbed exterior walls for
high
stregnth, reliability and durability, while
it's thin-wall and short
skirt
construction reduce weight. The
pistons are thinwall aluminum alloy
reinforced with steel struts for peak
stregnth and minimal weight. The
BLOCK ALSO USES FORGED CONNECTING RODS
and crankshaft beam bearing caps
for
greater strength and less
vibration."
Scans of this manual should be on-line sometime this evening
for the
doubters among us.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin
Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:28:55
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w. stock turbos
>> All of the folks
who ran in the 11's were modified,
>> but several of them had stock
turbos. More than
>> 1/2 the times in the 12's were on stock
turbos, too,
>> but with other mods.
This is amazing! Especially
considering, if I'm not mistaken, that
one of our best drivers, Jack
Tertadian, "only" ever achieved a ~12.7
sec. in the 1/4 mile with stock 9B
turbos.
Who on the 11s list had/has stock 9B turbos? Perhaps a short
"mods
list" could go on the "fastest 3S" page.
Oh, and I believe Matt
Monett's 11.009 @ 128.75 at the Texas DSM
Shootout needs to go into second
place - DR650r turbos with NOS. No
race slip? Check out the video:
http://www.dynamicracing.com/racing_movies/matt@dynamicracing.com-11.009@128.75.mpgor
go to
http://www.dynamicracing.com/racing_movies/Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
"Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fastest 1/4 mile w.
stock turbos
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:36:39
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Better send
this info to CAPS, which lists part number MD131329 for
ALL years.
Hmmm, didn't I see somewhere (sales brochures and STIM) that our
cars
also have a 45/55 torque split? (me chuckling). The truth is
*easily*
determined by anyone who has had a chance to directly compare
94+
rods with earlier ones (not me BTW) - perhaps one of the speed
shops
that specialize in our cars. Brochures are not facts.
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:56 AM
Subject: Team3S: Forged connecting rods
STOCK. Proof is at hand
Due to the tireless research and dedication of
one Kenneth Ellis, we
now have proof that the 2nd gen blocks did indeed come
with forged
connecting rods.
From page 6 of the 1994 Dodge Dealer
Product Information Manual
(emphasis mine):
<snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:55:09
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
>> Due
to the tireless research and dedication of one Kenneth
>> Ellis, we
now have proof that the 2nd gen blocks did indeed
>> come with forged
connecting rods.
> Better send this info to CAPS, which lists part
number
> MD131329 for ALL years.
I agree with Jeff that just
because a sheet from a Dodge marketing book says
they are forged rods doesn't
mean it is actually so. They physically look a
little "coarse" to be
forged...
I can ask my machine shop if they can tell the difference -
they are working
on my rods this week...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:03:53
-0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <
kevin@schappell.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Generally forged
parts will have a wide parting line and cast parts will
have a thin
line. Sometimes it's tough to tell depending on how the parts
are
finished. Your machine shop should be able to tell (I would hope :-)
)
If anyone has a rod laying around, snap a picture and let us look at
it.
Later,
Kevin Schappell
http://kevin.schappell.comSave money
on all of your speed parts.
http://www.SpeedShoppers.com>
I can ask my machine shop if they can tell the difference - they
> are
working
> on my rods this week...
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT
Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:16:18
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
It's a Dealer Information
manual. Not some customer brochure. How is it
the STIM is any
more or less valid than a dealer information manual? Here's
the
relevant info:
http://bansheestealth.xtreme3s.net/enginestech.jpgAnd
who's to say the rods weren't forged to begin with? At the same
time,
why would Dodge lie about this? It makes no sense. Also,
the version of
CAPS we have is from 2000. I know I wasn't placing orders for
connecting
rods back in 1992. Were you? For all we know, the supposed
forged rods
replaced older cast rods and there simply isn't any note of it in
CAPS. Or
they've simply been forged all along. It's not exactly like
Mitsubishi has
been forthcoming with information in the past. CAPS is meant
to provide part
numbers and year to year compatibility. It is NOT meant
to be the
be-all-end-all of technical information.
We need to get a
final answer on this. All the supposition and guesswork is
causing us
more harm than good. Has ANYONE managed to damage a stock rod
doing
anything besides outright abusing the engine? Even if they
aren't
forged in the typical sense, they certainly could be reinforced.
Nissan has
a special casting process they use on some of their NISMO
pistons. In the
most literal sense, the pistons are cast, but they're
every bit as strong as
forged equivalents and you can maintain the tight
dimensional clearances
that cast pistons provide. The fact is, we do
not know if Mitsubishi did or
did not use such a process on our rods.
I'm going to try to get some more
information on this. The guessing
must end.
Jeff VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Tuesday,
October 09, 2001 2:37 PM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Better send
this info to CAPS, which lists part number MD131329 for
ALL
years.
Hmmm, didn't I see somewhere (sales brochures and STIM) that our
cars
also have a 45/55 torque split? (me chuckling). The truth is
*easily*
determined by anyone who has had a chance to directly compare
94+
rods with earlier ones (not me BTW) - perhaps one of the speed
shops
that specialize in our cars. Brochures are not facts.
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:56 AM
Subject: Team3S: Forged connecting rods
STOCK. Proof is at hand
Due to the tireless research and dedication of
one Kenneth Ellis, we
now have proof that the 2nd gen blocks did indeed come
with forged
connecting rods.
From page 6 of the 1994 Dodge Dealer
Product Information Manual
(emphasis mine):
<snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:21:45
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
Yeah, Andy, you are missing something.
If you have stock springs there is
absolutely no way you can have no dive and
body roll unless you are driving
extremely slowly around corners, ECS
notwithstanding.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Andrew D. Woll [SMTP:awoll1@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001
10:40 AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>
> Hi Chuck: Yes, my
dentist has a Ferrari 308 and let me drive it. Very
> powerful - Very
fast. But I was constantly worried about the thing self
> destructing. My
Stealth didn't cost me an arm and a leg so I don't feel
> like
> I
have to baby it. If it breaks, so be it.
>
> As to flat turns, yes,
I have stock springs. In sport mode it might as
> well
> have no
springs. Am I missing something?
>
> Andy
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:20:41
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
> We need
to get a final answer on this. All the supposition
> and guesswork
is causing us more harm than good. Has ANYONE
> managed to damage a
stock rod doing anything besides outright
> abusing the engine?
Even if they aren't forged in the
> typical sense, they certainly could
be reinforced. Nissan has
> a special casting process they use on some of
their NISMO
> pistons. In the most literal sense, the pistons are
cast,
> but they're every bit as strong as forged equivalents and you
> can maintain the tight dimensional clearances that cast
>
pistons provide. The fact is, we do not know if Mitsubishi
> did or
did not use such a process on our rods. I'm going to
> try to get
some more information on this. The guessing must end.
It certainly
is possible that the stock rods have always been forged (or
reinforced, or
whatever). The part number appears to be the same for all
years, which
suggests that it wasn't a mid-production change.
I personally haven't
heard of anyone breaking one.
Hopefully my machine shop can end the
guessing for us... ;-)
Does it really matter though if they aren't
breaking?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:45:26
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
>>
<snip> and there simply isn't any note of it in CAPS.
Sorry, I
can't vouch for CAPS. Just reporting what it says. CAPS
usually is excellent
in reporting replacement items. For example, the
newer DOHC crank MD318150 is
listed as the replacement part for all
years, including 9004.1-9006.1 manu
dates which had MD168698 and
9006.2-9205.3 production dates cars which
received MD172313. [Does
anyone else find it interesting how different the
first two
production months were from the later ones?]
>> How is
it the STIM is any more or less valid than a dealer
>> information
manual?
I am not suggesting one printed medium is more factual than
another.
I am suggesting that visual observation and scientific analyses
are
factual. I also have a dealer info manual for 92 Stealths (isn't
ebay
wonderful?). It is VERY interesting, has their sales
pitches,
comparison info, and swatches for the seats. "Lieing" is such a
harsh
term plus there are many explanations for "discrepancies".
My
engine builder said the rods in my '92 TT were of a billet type. I
am not
sure what he meant by this. As I said, the difference should
be obvious
between forged and non-forged steel con rods. At a
minimum, there will be a
different stamp or something similar (Mitsu
would have to guaranty their
workforce can tell the difference
between two different parts - too much
liability not to). Forged
items rarely look *exactly* like cast or billet
items. I am sure a
totaly non-tireless effort could be made by calling GT PRO
or Dynamic
Racing and asking them. I bet they have seen their share of 1st
and
2nd gen con rods, probably even have some lying around.
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods
STOCK. Proof is at hand
<snip>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:54:20
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: Carbotech Panther Pad Group Purchase
1994-98 3000GT
FRONT D530
REAR D383
<none requested
10/9/01>
1991-93 3000GT AND SL
FRONT D530
REAR D383
<none requested 10/9/01>
Here's the talley as of
today. I'm trying to leave this open as long as
possible to give
everybody a chance to join in. Let me know directly if you
have a
specific urgency in getting the pads. For example, I have a DE
event
20-21 October, but have already written this one off. I expect to
install
new pads for a December event, so you can see that I'll be anxious to
get
this turned in well in advance of that.
This should give Ali
enough product info to provide us a quote.
The way the purchase will work
is that we will individually order through
Ali at Jamn' Motorsports with
individual shipping instructions and payment
information. The pads will
arrive where-ever you want them.
Chuck Willis
1994-98 3000GT
VR4
FRONT D531
<two axle sets requested
10/9/01>
REAR D631**
<one axle set requested
10/9/01>
1991-93 3000GT VR4
FRONT D531
<two axle
sets requested 10/9/01>
REAR D532
<two axle sets
requested 10/9/01>
**The rear of the 1994-98 (Gen II) 3000GT VR4 can
be made, but we will need
for you to send us cores, as we do not stock this
backing plate.
We can also make the Porsche Big Red's (1996-97 Porsche
993 TT), which is
the D594 pad.
<two axle sets requested
10/9/01>
What other upgrade kits are you guys using?
Ferrari
F40 (Stillen Brembo upgrade)
<one axle set requested 10/9/01>
AP
six piston caliper (Stillen upgrade)
<one axle set requested 10/9/01>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:35:07
-0700
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fw: high end knock
While reading up on knock some time ago I read what
appeared to be part
of a presentation at a university ---- one of the items
that they identified as
something that causes detonation was a slightly rich
condition. To reduce
detonation they had rich and lean as well as a batch of
others. No additional
information was given so it would be interesting to see
if making the mixture
richer would have improved the problem
also.
Jim
Berry
=====================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high end
knock
> I don't have any add on this too, no idea why more fuel
would add knock...
> but this could explain some strange datalogs I have
where I increased fuel
> for less knock and knock got increased !
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch>
> At 06:24 09.10.2001
-0700, Jeff Lucius wrote:
> >Knock from too-rich mixtures has been
reported on the TMO list. I
> >don't know what the exact mechanics of
that would be.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:55:09
-0400
From: "Volthause" <
volt@vozuluzov.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
From: Jeff Lucius
<
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
<snip>
>
My engine builder said the rods in my '92 TT were of a billet type. I
> am
not sure what he meant by this. As I said, the difference
should
<snip>
Billet is used in machining situations to
describe that the end part was
machined from a solid block of material to end
of with the final product.
This would be the opposite of forged, stamped, or
cast.
- -Scott Holthausen
'94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:00:38
-0700 (PDT)
From: Casey Rayman <
theturbodog@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
I don't know
of ANY motor produced in recent history that did not
come with forged
rods. Cast cranks are common, but due to the
stresses involved
connecting rods are always forged. I am pretty
sure they are even
forged on lawnmowers and such small motors. Some
of the very very
recent motors(GM LS1) use powder metal(sintered)
rods which gives the same
end result as forging, but is more accurate
so little to no finish machining
is required.
Casey
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:04:52
-0700
From: Rich Fowler <
richfowler2@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Wheel spacer
www.wheeloptions.com has them in
stock.
Rich
on 10/9/01 9:52 AM, Floyd, Jim at
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a source of wheel spacers for my VR4 besides
H&R
> Springs.
> They have a 6 week lead time on the 5 mm spacer
I want.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:19:07
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at
hand
Jeff,
Thanks for posting these brochure pages. I can see how
casual reading
of this brochure might misinterpret some of the information.
Here are
some examples plus discrepancies with other sources.
"Its new
aluminum cylinder head..."
CAPS reports the following for cylinder
heads.
9004.1 - 9205.3 MD136648
9206.1 - end MD187502
According to
CAPS, heads changed for the 1993 model year.
"The iron block ..."
The
STIM states "alloy steal" for block material. Is someone lying or
just not
being entirely factual in all metallurgical details?
"Featuring a lighter
turbine wheel ..."
CAPS does list a change in part number for the turbos
(including the
cartridge assembly) starting with 9302.2 production (1994
models?).
Interesting. I didn't realize this. I wonder if parts are
actually
any different though?
"... while the wastegate port is
separate from the turbine output
port"
This suggests an external
wastegate; Not true of course. Or are they
just stating the trivial fact that
exhaust gases can go though the
wastegate rather than through the turbine
wheel?
"... oversized valves ..."
Are they really? I wonder what the
standard is for 4-valve head valve
size?
"The block also uses forged
connecting rods ..."
It does not state this is new for this model. Perhaps
all production
rods were forged. I wonder why then people "upgrade". Are
Pauter or
Crower forged rods better somehow? Maybe lighter?
Jeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
To: "Team3s Tech List"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Forged connecting rods
STOCK. Proof is at hand
<snip>
http://bansheestealth.xtreme3s.net/enginestech.jpg<snip>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 15:48:36
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More Power
It is to mention, that the 13G turbos cannot hold
15psi to the redline
without very high overboost in the mid end. With a
boost controller set to
15 psi max a level of 14.5psi is achieved at 3000rpm
and rises a little up
to 15psi at 4800 and then starts to drop off. At 6000
rpm boost is about
13.9psi. This was measured on my car with 720cc injectors
and the ARCII
fuel system, larger Denso fuel pump and Apexi Filter. At same
dynos before
with the 360cc injectors they have been maxxed out to 100%
above 5600
although the O2 sensors did not show lean. Depending on the
ambient,
dangerous knock appeared and could only be solved with water
injection. But
there was still not enough fuel !!! With the 720cc IDC is
around 55% at 6000.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 06:06 09.10.2001 -0700,
Jeff Lucius wrote:
> >> I believe the car has enough fuel stock to
run
> >> 13gs at 15psi.
>
>NO! It is very dangerous to
run 13G (or larger) turbos in our cars
>near their limits (or 15 psi to
redline) with the stock fuel system.
>In my book, the fuel pump and
injectors (with a controller) should be
>upgraded first, maybe before even
maxing out the stock turbos. But
>definitely 15 psi at 6000+ RPM is very
dangerous using the stock pump
>(except maybe if you are supplying it with
a guarantied 13.5+ volts,
>but by then the stock injectors are too
small).
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
**
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:50:00
-0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost
I'm catching up on
e-mail from last week and noticed a discussion (under the
ARC II subject)
about reduced spark plug gap with increased boost. I
noticed several
people recommended up to a 25% reduction in plug gap when
running increased
boost to prevent spark blow out.
Is this only if you're running
above-stock boost to redline (i.e. not stock
turbos), or is this for anyone
running above-stock boost at any RPM,
including with stock turbos?
The
reason being that I have a BPU '95 VR-4 with a EBC set to hit 13-14psi
and
have the original factory plugs in there (35,000 miles) and have no
issues
with spark blowout. She purrs like a kitten all the way to
redline,
especially after opening up the exhaust some - in any gear I drive
in (I
rarely get full boost in 5th, let alone 6th, for legal reasons).
No
stumbling or missing that I can feel. Am I missing something?
(sorry - pun
intended...)
Does anyone know whether the issue is that
the voltage in the coil is
insufficient to cross the gap with increased
pressure, or is the recharge
rate of the coil a factor as well - i.e. spark
is fine with
15psi@4000RPM,
but gets blown
out with
15psi@7000RPM because the voltage in
the coil
doesn't peak as high at 7krpm?
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:49:29
-0700
From: "Maupin, Justin" <
Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Rubber Gasket
Greetings all,
Trying like crazy to find the
PN for the thick rubber gasket/oring type part
that goes between the y-pipe
and the plenum... Am I expressing this right...
I am sure somebody out there
knows what I am talking about...
Justin
With an nasty intake leak on
his 92 RT/TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:52:25
-0700
From: Rick <
melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 70w80 Redline ????
Andy,
Are you useing 70w80 MTL?I've
been useing MT-90 Red Line and it is 75w90,and
I'm going to the 70W80 MTL.Is
that what you've got now,with no problems?
Thanks,
RICK
'92 R/T
TT
"Andrew D. Woll" wrote:
> Rick - I have been using redline
MTL now for about 200 miles. It feels
> great. My trans rattled at idle
before changing to red line. It still
> rattles at idle on occasion, but
changing to MTL has definitly reduced the
> rattle and shifts are
smoother. On the other hand the trans still is not a
> really smooth
shifter. My old VW's shifted a lot smoother. Of course, I
> wasn't
controlling 300 hp in the VW.
>
> Andy
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:57:11
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rubber Gasket
> Trying like crazy to find the PN for the
thick rubber
> gasket/oring type part that goes between the y-pipe and
the
> plenum... Am I expressing this right... I am sure somebody
>
out there knows what I am talking about...
Unfortunately Mitsu/Dodge
doesn't sell the gasket seperately. You get to
buy a new Y-pipe or
figure out how to use a piece of hose or something to
fit. :-(
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 18:00:07
-0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost
Well in my
limited experience with distributor less ignition systems Eric, I
found that
most stock coil packs begin to fade in output between 75-90K
miles. The
best reason I can come up for this is that when you most people
have a tune
up done on a distributor system they replace the Rotor cap and
the plate
below it (not sure what it is called) as where we just replace our
plugs and
wires. Never mind the fact that our engine bays get slightly
hotter than the
average. But hey what do I know.... I would love to see
some one
test the output of their high mileage coil packs and compare it to
new OEM
units and see the results
Russ F
CT
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Gross, Erik [SMTP:erik.gross@intel.com]
> Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 5:50 PM
> To: Team3S List (E-mail)
>
Subject: Team3S: Reduced Spark Plug Gap with Increased Boost
>
>
I'm catching up on e-mail from last week and noticed a discussion (under
>
the
> ARC II subject) about reduced spark plug gap with increased
boost. I
> noticed several people recommended up to a 25% reduction
in plug gap when
> running increased boost to prevent spark blow out.
>
> Is this only if you're running above-stock boost to redline
(i.e. not
> stock
> turbos), or is this for anyone running
above-stock boost at any RPM,
> including with stock turbos?
>
> The reason being that I have a BPU '95 VR-4 with a EBC set to hit
13-14psi
> and have the original factory plugs in there (35,000 miles) and
have no
> issues with spark blowout. She purrs like a kitten all the
way to
> redline,
> especially after opening up the exhaust some -
in any gear I drive in (I
> rarely get full boost in 5th, let alone 6th,
for legal reasons). No
> stumbling or missing that I can feel.
Am I missing something? (sorry -
> pun
> intended...)
>
> Does anyone know whether the issue is that the voltage in the coil
is
> insufficient to cross the gap with increased pressure, or is the
recharge
> rate of the coil a factor as well - i.e. spark is fine with
15psi@4000RPM,
> but gets blown out with
15psi@7000RPM because the voltage in the
coil
> doesn't peak as high at 7krpm?
>
> --Erik
> '95
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 18:10:06
-0400
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Forged connecting rods STOCK. Proof is at hand
Jeff, Ken,
& Others,
This is not my opinion but instead fact based on a study I
did on my
second gen shortblock before deciding on Carrillo rods. I
would also
like to state that I'm not a connecting rod expert, I just sit
next to
those that work on them for a living (and I keep good mental
notes).
Despite what the Dodge literature might state, our rods are not
forgings
in the traditional sense. They are PM (Powdered Metal) rods
that appear
to be ultra high density through the use of a double hit (ie
formed,
sintered, restrike, and resintered). Sometimes this is referred
to as a
forged PM rod (wide parting line, higher strength, etc.) and this
is
where Dodge made a play on words (ie considering it a forged
rod).
After maching, our rod are notched with lasers at the caps and
then
broken/fractured loose. This creates a situation where the cap
must stay
with the same rod since it's fracture surface is unique (excellent
for
cap true position as long as the two mating surfaces are kept
clean).
This procedure wasn't very common when our engines were designed
(late
80s) but is common practice today. We use PM rods in almost all
Chrysler
engines today. They still require machining of the small end
and big end
bores, width of each, balancing (big end & small end weights)
as well as
the surface the bolt/nut torque against. The only machinging
savings you
gain on PMed rods over a more conventional cast or forged rod is
in the
cap joint (PM rods are usually cracked) and no need for dowling
since
true position is maintained by the fractured
surface.
Recap: Our connecting rods are not forgings but instead
double strike PM
(high density) pieces. They are however very stout
with a high safety
factors in our stock twin turbo applications. The
weak link in the rod
would be the bolt strength (assuming no green cracks in
the PM).
Joe Gonsowski
'92 & '96 R/T TT
Casey Rayman
wrote:
> I don't know of ANY motor produced in recent history that did
not
> come with forged rods. Cast cranks are common, but due to
the
> stresses involved connecting rods are always forged. I am
pretty
> sure they are even forged on lawnmowers and such small
motors. Some
> of the very very recent motors(GM LS1) use powder
metal(sintered)
> rods which gives the same end result as forging, but is
more accurate
> so little to no finish machining is
required.
>
> Casey
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:12:08
-0400
From: "Boris" <
BPeguero@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: parts for sale
Hello everybody,
I just wanted to let everybody
know that I still have some items for sale.
They come off of my black 1991
Stealth RT/TT
Two AAM spec 15G turbos with less than 500 miles on
them
Price $1550.00
HKS upgraded fuel pump
Price $350.00
HKS
intercoolers with less than 500 miles on them
Price $900.00
HKS super mega
flow intake for VPC set-up
Price $265.00
Magnecore 8.5 mm spark plug
cables
Price $65.00
Stock OEM throttlebody with vacuum hose
fixtures
Price $180.00
Greddy 550 cc Fuel injectors
Price
$350.00
Stock (OEM) Fuel injectors
6 Denso iridium spark plugs with less
than 500 miles on them
Price $22.00
6 NGK platinum spark plugs with about
2000 miles on them
Price $10.00
Blitz Super Sound Blow Off Valve with
stock blow-off valve
Price $160.00
If anybody is interested in any of
these items, please e-mail me privately
Boris
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:53:17
-0700
From: "noble" <
nketo@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fw: high end knock
Thanks for all the input :)
I've noticed
however, that enriching the mixture causes "bucking" take offs
from stops,
highens high-end knock, and increases part throttle
phantom-knocking.
I've
also noticed that boost response goes through the roof with
richer
mixtures,
but if knock is the trade off, I'd rather not be so
rich.
Have you guys noticed similar conditions on any engines that have
been
damaged because of this? Or has it been consistently from "lean"
mixtures
or simply too much boost?
Regards,
Noble
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>; Roger
Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high end
knock
> While reading up on knock some time ago I read what
appeared to be part
> of a presentation at a university ---- one of the
items that they
identified as
> something that causes detonation was a
slightly rich condition. To reduce
> detonation they had rich and lean as
well as a batch of others. No
additional
> information was given so it
would be interesting to see if making the
mixture
> richer would have
improved the problem
also.
>
> Jim
Berry
> =====================================================
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high
end knock
>
>
> > I don't have any add on this too, no idea
why more fuel would add
knock...
> > but this could explain some
strange datalogs I have where I increased
fuel
> > for less knock
and knock got increased !
> >
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT
TT
> >
www.rtec.ch>
>
> > At 06:24 09.10.2001 -0700, Jeff Lucius wrote:
> >
>Knock from too-rich mixtures has been reported on the TMO list. I
>
> >don't know what the exact mechanics of that would be.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:03:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fw: high end knock
Ive damaged ring lands in my Celica GT4
from running far too rich.
On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, noble wrote:
>
Thanks for all the input :)
> I've noticed however, that enriching the
mixture causes "bucking" take offs
> from stops, highens high-end knock,
and increases part throttle
> phantom-knocking.
> I've also noticed
that boost response goes through the roof with richer
> mixtures,
>
but if knock is the trade off, I'd rather not be so rich.
>
> Have
you guys noticed similar conditions on any engines that have been
>
damaged because of this? Or has it been consistently from "lean"
mixtures
> or simply too much boost?
>
> Regards,
>
Noble
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Berry
<
fastmax@home.com>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>;
Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> Sent:
Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Fw: high end
knock
>
>
> > While reading up on knock some time ago I
read what appeared to be part
> > of a presentation at a university
---- one of the items that they
> identified as
> > something
that causes detonation was a slightly rich condition. To reduce
> >
detonation they had rich and lean as well as a batch of others. No
>
additional
> > information was given so it would be interesting to see
if making the
> mixture
> > richer would have improved the
problem also.
> >
>
> Jim Berry
> >
=====================================================
> > -----
Original Message -----
> > From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> >
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fw: high end knock
> >
> >
> > > I don't have any
add on this too, no idea why more fuel would add
> knock...
> >
> but this could explain some strange datalogs I have where I
increased
> fuel
> > > for less knock and knock got increased
!
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > 93'3000GT
TT
> > >
www.rtec.ch> >
>
> > > At 06:24 09.10.2001 -0700, Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> > >Knock from too-rich mixtures has been reported on the TMO list.
I
> > > >don't know what the exact mechanics of that would
be.
> > >
Geoff Mohler
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:35:02
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Manual - Auto A/C conversion
Has anybody done this? I'm preparing
to sell the entire auto A/C system out
of my parts car and was wondering if
i would have to include the blower
assy, and heater core......or if the
dampner motors, temp sensors, etc.
would bolt up to the Manual heater blower
and core. In other words, are the
mounting bosses there and not being used?
I already know every other part
that must be included, so please don't bog
down the list with this
information....only the heater core and
blower.....
Thanks,
Wayne
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#641
***************************************
