Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Thursday, October 4 2001   Volume 01 : Number 636




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 20:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Last weekends Sears Point photos

When Bob adds more..I'll add those too!

http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/sp-9-29

Come join the 3S racers at Sears Point..run with the bunch!

http://www.speedtoys.com/sp102728.htm

Geoff Mohler

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:54:55 EDT
From: NassiriC@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: RE:Pass Emissions with a Test Pipe?

Paul,
I can only speak for CA emissions. 

1. No main cat or no pre-cat and you fail automatically (visual inspection)

2. I'm guessing that a 3S could pass CA 'tail pipe emissions' WITHOUT a main
cat, but WITH the pre-cats installed.  The pre and main cats tend to be
redundant.  As you know the pre-cats 'light off' when the motor is cold, then
when the motor is hot the main cat 'lights off'.  Cats have to be warm to
work, that's why we have pre-cats, they are much closer to the hot exhaust
gasses so they start working within seconds of starting the motor, the main
cat is not fully functional until the engine has reached operating
temperature.  As a side note, my VR-4 did pass tail pipe emissions with
gutted pre-cats, but the emissions were much higher then when the pre-cats
were intact.  With no pre or main cat I would have failed for sure.

3.  I had a '96 Vette, it passed 'tail pipe emissions' with only the pre-cats
in place and completely gutted main cats.  The emissions were very close to
failing though.  With both pre and main cats in place the car tested at
nearly 0 emissions, with the main cat gutted, I was only a few points from
failing.

4.  In CA, don't risk trying to pass emissions if you know you have a
problem.  As soon as you fail, they'll send you to the 'special' smog
station, and those guys will tear your car apart.  You can't hide things like
gutted pre-cats from them, and they'll fine you heavily if they find that
you've been messing with polution control equipment.

Bottom line: Better have your main cat at least installed and working.  If
you're really concerned about the main cat reducing power, you can buy a
Random Tech cat to replace your main cat (if your car has more then 50K
miles).  Random Tech cats cost about $150, they work just as well as stock
cats at reducing emissions, and they have been proven to flow 99.99% of what
an open pipe would flow.  So you can be environmentally friendly and have
power too!

Cyrus Nassiri
Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Without Boost

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:01:57 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE:Pass Emissions with a Test Pipe?

I'll make one note:  that is that the main cat can be legally replaced
even before 50K miles...  If it has been damaged.  Now, seeing as where
a catalytic converter actually sits on a car (underneath it), a fat
hammer would do the trick of "damaging" the cat so that is ~has~ to be
replaced...

- -Cody

Bottom line: Better have your main cat at least installed and working.
If
you're really concerned about the main cat reducing power, you can buy a

Random Tech cat to replace your main cat (if your car has more then 50K
miles).  Random Tech cats cost about $150, they work just as well as
stock
cats at reducing emissions, and they have been proven to flow 99.99% of
what
an open pipe would flow.  So you can be environmentally friendly and
have
power too!

Cyrus Nassiri
Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Without Boost

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 01:06:04 EDT
From: NassiriC@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

I need some advice,
I gutted my pre-cats on my '97 VR-4.  I'd heard rumors that this might cause
the 'check engine' light to come on.  I drove it for about 8K miles, no
problem.  Then the light came on.  The Mitsu dealer said the code was for a
failed pre-cat.  I unplugged the battery and the light went away,  only to
come on again in about 50 miles, with the same problem.  I've unplugged the
battery several times now, and the light still comes back on at just about 50
miles of driving. 

So it would appear that (at least in my case) gutting pre-cats will cause
problems.  My question is this:
1.  Isn't there a 'dummy' O2 sensor I can buy that will cure this problem
2.  ECU senses a failed cat - will it change the air/fuel parameters to try
to adjust for this? 
3.  Why did this only become a problem now, why was I able to drive 8K miles
without the ecu noticing that I was missing pre-cat material?  Could this be
another problem that has nothing to do with the gutted pre-cats?

Cyrus Nassiri
Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Without Boost.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:06:08 -0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rattling gearbox, was Lightweight Flywheels - Pros/Cons

> I am not talking about feel Jim  ;)   Literally at idle my car rattles
(the
> gearbox internals from the sound) I talked with a bunch of the smart guys

This is a very common problem with our Getrag trannys as well as other
Getrags.  Vineet S. posted the following link eons ago about Getrag
problems:  http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/trans.articles.html
Although it describes problems with the BMW Getrag, I swear I was reading
about my own tranny ;)

- -Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 02:41:50 EDT
From: NassiriC@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: ATTN Racers:  Hawk Blue Pads for sale

Racers, this is your lucky day!
Some of you may remember that I lucked onto a case of Hawk Blue Racing pads. 
I have 6 brand new (still wrapped) front sets that I am selling.  Retail they
go for $90 to $120 for the set. 

I will sell them for $45 a set, or $240 for all 6.  Buyer pays shipping from
SF California.  I'd prefer Paypall or you can send me a personal check
(anyone bouncing a check will be held up to public shame and ridicule on the
list). I will ship the day I get your payment. 

For those of you that are not familiar with Hawk Blue pads, they are racing
pads, and should not be used for street driving.  They don't work very well
until they reach racing temps, and they eat rotors fast.
These pads fit the newer style brakes (they fit my '97 VR-4) - if someone on
the list can help out and tell me which year the 'newer' style started, that
would be a big help.

If you are interested, please contact me OFF the list.

Thanks
Cyrus Nassiri

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:38:31 +1200
From: "Steve Cooper" <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re: Team3S: Misconceptions about drivetrain losses

> Sorry Steve I have to disagree.... when I put in a new clutch with LW FW I
> picked up almost 7 RWHP (no other mods) and the temp diff between the 2
days
> was about 6 degrees (hotter on the day with the FW)  The c/f driveshaft
> netted about 9-10 RWHP (similar situation as before temp diff 4 degrees
> cooler on the day of the c/f DS dyno)  Believe at first I was confused but
> those damn dynos don't lie but the data can be misinterpreted.

Well it depends on how the dyno works, If it gives a constant printout
whilst under acceleration you should see different readings than you would
if the revs were held at constant levels.( if that makes sense ).
That should cause a few comments.

Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:36:38 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

Cyrus,

I am going thru the same thing with my '96 RT/TT.  There is a place that
does make them and I just ordered a set.  The only problem right now is that
they work only 1/2 the time. I am working with manufacture right now to
figure out what we need to adjust in order for the to work properly.  The
place I ordered mine from is www.casperselectronics.com.  Things he will ask
you will be, what triggers the check engine light to come on, what voltage
or millivolts are your rear O2 sensor putting out.  If you have the CD
manual, this info can be found in the Multiport Fuel Injection section of
the manual.  I think it is Chapter 13A-31.  I am ordering a scan tool so I
can see what exactly is setting off my check engine light.  What is
happening, is once I reset the ECU, start the car, the check engine stays
off.  If I shut the car off and start the car again, within 5 seconds the
light comes on.  So I think it is sending a certain voltage to the ECU, when
the ECU should no be seeing it so quickly;ie the car is not warmed up yet,
so why is it sending this signal. John is the owner and the contact person I
have been speaking with.  Good luck and let me know if you have anymore
questions.

Francis
'96 R/T TT
(SAVC-R BC, Spearco WI, Magnacore wires, NGK plugs .32, test pipe, Autometer
Boost Gauge, RPS TCC, HKS MegaFlow intake, freeflow precats, Goodridge Steel
Braided Brake Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads, 1G DSM
BOV, Ground Control springs(500/300 F/R), Supra Fuel Pump, Borla Exhaust,
Stille DP, O2 Simulators)

- -----Original Message-----
From: NassiriC@aol.com [mailto:NassiriC@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:06 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

I need some advice,
I gutted my pre-cats on my '97 VR-4.  I'd heard rumors that this might cause

the 'check engine' light to come on.  I drove it for about 8K miles, no
problem.  Then the light came on.  The Mitsu dealer said the code was for a
failed pre-cat.  I unplugged the battery and the light went away,  only to
come on again in about 50 miles, with the same problem.  I've unplugged the
battery several times now, and the light still comes back on at just about
50
miles of driving. 

So it would appear that (at least in my case) gutting pre-cats will cause
problems.  My question is this:
1.  Isn't there a 'dummy' O2 sensor I can buy that will cure this problem
2.  ECU senses a failed cat - will it change the air/fuel parameters to try
to adjust for this? 
3.  Why did this only become a problem now, why was I able to drive 8K miles

without the ecu noticing that I was missing pre-cat material?  Could this be

another problem that has nothing to do with the gutted pre-cats?

Cyrus Nassiri
Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Without Boost.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 08:30:25 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ATTN Racers:  Hawk Blue Pads for sale

2nd gen brakes = >/= '94

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NassiriC@aol.com [SMTP:NassiriC@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:42 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: ATTN Racers:  Hawk Blue Pads for sale
>
> Racers, this is your lucky day!
> Some of you may remember that I lucked onto a case of Hawk Blue Racing
> pads. 
> I have 6 brand new (still wrapped) front sets that I am selling.  Retail
> they
> go for $90 to $120 for the set. 
>
> I will sell them for $45 a set, or $240 for all 6.  Buyer pays shipping
> from
> SF California.  I'd prefer Paypall or you can send me a personal check
> (anyone bouncing a check will be held up to public shame and ridicule on
> the
> list). I will ship the day I get your payment. 
>
> For those of you that are not familiar with Hawk Blue pads, they are
> racing
> pads, and should not be used for street driving.  They don't work very
> well
> until they reach racing temps, and they eat rotors fast.
> These pads fit the newer style brakes (they fit my '97 VR-4) - if someone
> on
> the list can help out and tell me which year the 'newer' style started,
> that
> would be a big help.
>
> If you are interested, please contact me OFF the list.
>
> Thanks
> Cyrus Nassiri

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:30:48 -0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ATTN Racers:  Hawk Blue Pads for sale

Also, I just wanted to point out that the Hawk Blue makes a very good ENDURO
pad for SCCA racing, despite being rotor aggressive.  The dust tends to be
quite corrosive, so be sure to protect your paint with some kind of plastic
laminate; spraying your wheels with PAM (yes, the cooking stuff...) also
helps to keep the dust from adhering to the wheels, though it will still do
this to some extent.

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

::-----Original Message-----
::From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Willis, Charles E.
::Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 9:30 AM
::To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
::Subject: RE: Team3S: ATTN Racers: Hawk Blue Pads for sale

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:18:15 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

I have a 93 so I don't have that problem, but I thought the issue was that
you have front and rear O2 sensors and the ecu looks at the difference
between a front and rear pair and sets the check engine light if it doesn't
like the answer ---- somehow you need to fool the sensor.

        Jim Berry
====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Morice, Francis <francis.morice@retek.com>
To: <NassiriC@aol.com>; Team3S (E-mail) <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:36 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars


> Cyrus,
>
> I am going thru the same thing with my '96 RT/TT.  There is a place that
> does make them and I just ordered a set.  The only problem right now is that
> they work only 1/2 the time. I am working with manufacture right now to
> figure out what we need to adjust in order for the to work properly.  The
> place I ordered mine from is www.casperselectronics.com.  Things he will ask
> you will be, what triggers the check engine light to come on, what voltage
> or millivolts are your rear O2 sensor putting out.  If you have the CD
> manual, this info can be found in the Multiport Fuel Injection section of
> the manual.  I think it is Chapter 13A-31.  I am ordering a scan tool so I
> can see what exactly is setting off my check engine light.  What is
> happening, is once I reset the ECU, start the car, the check engine stays
> off.  If I shut the car off and start the car again, within 5 seconds the
> light comes on.  So I think it is sending a certain voltage to the ECU, when
> the ECU should no be seeing it so quickly;ie the car is not warmed up yet,
> so why is it sending this signal. John is the owner and the contact person I
> have been speaking with.  Good luck and let me know if you have anymore
> questions.
>
> Francis
> '96 R/T TT
> (SAVC-R BC, Spearco WI, Magnacore wires, NGK plugs .32, test pipe, Autometer
> Boost Gauge, RPS TCC, HKS MegaFlow intake, freeflow precats, Goodridge Steel
> Braided Brake Lines, Porterfield Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads, 1G DSM
> BOV, Ground Control springs(500/300 F/R), Supra Fuel Pump, Borla Exhaust,
> Stille DP, O2 Simulators)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NassiriC@aol.com [mailto:NassiriC@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:06 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars
>
> I need some advice,
> I gutted my pre-cats on my '97 VR-4.  I'd heard rumors that this might cause
>
> the 'check engine' light to come on.  I drove it for about 8K miles, no
> problem.  Then the light came on.  The Mitsu dealer said the code was for a
> failed pre-cat.  I unplugged the battery and the light went away,  only to
> come on again in about 50 miles, with the same problem.  I've unplugged the
> battery several times now, and the light still comes back on at just about
> 50
> miles of driving. 
>
> So it would appear that (at least in my case) gutting pre-cats will cause
> problems.  My question is this:
> 1.  Isn't there a 'dummy' O2 sensor I can buy that will cure this problem
> 2.  ECU senses a failed cat - will it change the air/fuel parameters to try
> to adjust for this? 
> 3.  Why did this only become a problem now, why was I able to drive 8K miles
>
> without the ecu noticing that I was missing pre-cat material?  Could this be
>
> another problem that has nothing to do with the gutted pre-cats?
>
> Cyrus Nassiri
> Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Without Boost.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:38:31 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??

Umm, Roger there are only two EPROM's for the VPC (AFAIK) 360CC injectors
and 550CC injectors (since our cars are not available with auto's there are
not additional EPROM's just ask Dusty at MVP about how many EPROM's there
are for the MKIV). Also worth noting  when you install a SAFC or SFC you
simply cut the output wire from the VPC before the harness on itself.

Roger I think I understand what you are getting at.... but since you are a
Dyno whore anyway ;)  the next time you go have them read your A/F at you
low street (15 psi or what ever) and at you high street boost (18 psi or
what ever you run) and have them log both.  I don't make this shit up, I
have seen this with my own two eyes on my old MKIV, now while I have not yet
done this on the 3S. The two cars can not be that different in fueling
demands.  Anyway when I finally get around to becoming a Dyno whore I will
have hard data to show either that I need medication or I am right (I hope
it's the latter).

Oh BTW does anyone know if AAM allows people to rent the Dyno for like 4hrs
at a time and what does the waiting list look like?

I know I am being difficult but no one has yet showed Dyno runs logging A/F
for a 3S running pump gas for their low and high street boost settings and
the difference in fuel demands between the two with out changing the setting
they have on their ARC2. This is all I am looking for...some hard data not
just mathematical equations/theories.  Roger I just looked your data logs...
interesting only one problem no A/F ratios.  What I am trying say here is
that no one has showed me the logs disproving my point. Now while I
understand the fact that people do not want to admit they spent allot of
money on an ARC2 and got a good aftermarket fuel control system.... good is
just not good enough for me!  I am anal and want the certain target ranges
maintained at ALL TIMES! and everything I have seen so far shows that the
ARC2 is easy to use but far to course for personal tastes.

Sorry for the tirade, so lets just stop this thread we are talking in
circles... when I get the car strapped down in December I will have AAM log
everything
and I will show everyone what I am talking about.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:10 PM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??
>
> I once had an SFC off a Supra and there was no way to deliver the same
> signal our ECU needs. Also the japanese applications list did not show the
> Mitsu ECUs :(
>
> I once had the VPC on my car, test-installed ... I finally hated the
> hassle
> of butting anoother boost sensing device onto the plenum as well as the
> temp
> sensor. Finally I gave up because it never runned well even with the GCC
> II
> (that mades the system rpm-specific) and I hate the fact that I have to
> buy
> other EPROMS when I change something larger like IC, Turbos, Injectors.
> Also
> it is seldom that a VPC does run well with 720cc injectors. In fact it was
> reported that the program even depends on what injectors used.
>
> I went with one of the first ARC2 although I was agaisnt it at first. I
> runned it with stock 360cc for about 5 months just to learn how the four
> knobs work together. I then installed 720cc injectors and adjusted only 2
> knobs and the car runned well. Fortunately, I used a TMO Datalogger for
> tuning it in. How I did and the logs can be seen on my page www.rtec.ch
> (Fuel System).
>
> It was somewhat easy to tune, as the MID button represents the airflow
> characteristic and therefore only must be adjusted when anything was
> installed or changed that changed this characteristic (mostly turbos and
> headwork but maybe also headers or removing the precats, dunno for sure).
> Also I did not touch the ACCEL button as the double the size injectors
> only
> affected LOW (to set the idle and linearity) as well as HIGH (to supplythe
> rigth amount of fuel at the high flow).
>
> The downside of the ARC is the relatively rough tuning range on each
> click.
> This is better with the latest generation but I haven't upgraded mine yet.
>
> Since I made heavy headwork the idle became problematic when cold. I do
> have
> to adjust the LOW setting be able to start the car and then readjust it
> back
> after a minute or so to prevent overrich situation. I'm positive the new
> gen
> will solve this but we will see :)
>
> Adding a Field FC (if one can get it to work in our cars) with three fuel
> settings is not a bad idea but in fact what is it needed for as when I run
> 18psi, I'd like to have the best performance as well as on 23 psi or 15
> psi.
> With the ARC or VPC and maybe a fine-tuning tool I can get this too.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:27:34 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ATTN Racers:  Hawk Blue Pads for sale

I wrote about this some time ago --- I found what appears to be an effective
method to keep the dust from adhering to your wheels --- I use a spray can
of the silicon lubricant [ NOT tire dressing ]. I spray a heavy coat on the wheels
let it dry down and then wipe off any excess --- It's worked like a charm so far.
You could probably do the same to the side of your car but I don't know how
easy it washes off --- you may have shiny spots on your car ?!?!?!?

I did have a problem with the Pagid Blacks [ no silicon then] which does some
sort of plasma deposition process on my wheels -- ye gods was that nasty. Any
Idea what they use to cause that.

        Jim Berry
============================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Andie W. Lin <andiewlin@yahoo.com>

> Also, I just wanted to point out that the Hawk Blue makes a very good ENDURO
> pad for SCCA racing, despite being rotor aggressive.  The dust tends to be
> quite corrosive, so be sure to protect your paint with some kind of plastic
> laminate; spraying your wheels with PAM (yes, the cooking stuff...) also
> helps to keep the dust from adhering to the wheels, though it will still do
> this to some extent.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 07:30:42 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: Team3S: Misconceptions about drivetrain losses

 An inertial dyno would probably pick up the change in rotating mass as it requires
 the drums to be accelerating, while a brake dyno reads a steady state HP at a
 specific RPM and  would  not see the change.
 
 Comments anyone ????
 
         Jim Berry
 ======================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Cooper <scooper@paradise.net.nz>
> To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Team3S: Misconceptions about drivetrain losses
>
>
> >
> >
> > > Sorry Steve I have to disagree.... when I put in a new clutch with LW FW I
> > > picked up almost 7 RWHP (no other mods) and the temp diff between the 2
> > days
> > > was about 6 degrees (hotter on the day with the FW)  The c/f driveshaft
> > > netted about 9-10 RWHP (similar situation as before temp diff 4 degrees
> > > cooler on the day of the c/f DS dyno)  Believe at first I was confused but
> > > those damn dynos don't lie but the data can be misinterpreted.
> >
> > Well it depends on how the dyno works, If it gives a constant printout
> > whilst under acceleration you should see different readings than you would
> > if the revs were held at constant levels.( if that makes sense ).
> > That should cause a few comments.
> >
> > Steve

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:01:39 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: Group purchase arrangements for Carbotech Panther Plus Pads for V R4's and TT

Dear friends,

I am trying to coordinate arrangements for group purchases of Carbotech
Panther Plus brake pads for our cars through Jamn' Motorsports.
http://www.jamnmotorsports.com/

I will vouch for the performance of the pads on the road course and street,
they dust little, wear nicely without fade, stop good, and are rotor
friendly.  I am not interested in handling the purchase or delivery of the
product.

Ali at Jamn' Motorsports has graceously offered to obtain the pads for us
from Carbotech, as he has for me for the past several years.  Andie at
Carbotech has already generously offered a 10% discount from list for the
remainder of the year for Team 3S.

What Ali needs to know is the number of interested parties and applications
involved -

So far, I can speak for one axle set of front F-40 pads, one axle set of
front 2nd gen VR4 pads, one axle set of front 1st gen VR4 pads, one axle set
of 2nd gen VR4 rear pads, and two axle sets of rear 1st gen VR4 pads.

I know there was some interest from Porsche Big Red owners for PBR front
pads. (Rich Merritt?)

What y'all need to know is the applications that are/will be available and
some idea of price (Ali/ Andie are you listening?)

I realize this comes at an interesting time, when the market is flooded by
fire sale discounted Hawk Blue pads (and a darn good price that is, too!).
Just so you know I am serious about the Panther Plus pads, I intend to fit
all three of our VR4's with them.

Email me and I'll collect the results of the survey and transmit them to
Ali.

Chuck Willis 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:00:15 -0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Group purchase arrangements for Carbotech Panther Plus Pads for VR4's and TT

Yes, Doc...I'm listening. :-)  See below...

andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.com
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669

::-----Original Message-----
::From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
::Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:02 PM
::To: Team3S; '3sracers@speedtoys.com'
::Cc: 'anaimi@apple.com'; 'Andie W. Lin'; 'Richard Garriott'
::Subject: Group purchase arrangements for Carbotech Panther Plus Pads for
::VR4's and TT
::
::I know there was some interest from Porsche Big Red owners for PBR front
::pads. (Rich Merritt?)
::
::What y'all need to know is the applications that are/will be available and
::some idea of price (Ali/ Andie are you listening?)

We can make the following:

1994-98 3000GT
  FRONT  D530
  REAR  D383

1991-93 3000GT AND SL
  FRONT  D530
  REAR  D383

1994-98 3000GT VR4
  FRONT  D531
  REAR  D631**

1991-93 3000GT VR4
  FRONT  D531
  REAR  D532

**The rear of the 1994-98 (Gen II) 3000GT VR4 can be made, but we will need
for you to send us cores, as we do not stock this backing plate.

We can also make the Porsche Big Red's (1996-97 Porsche 993 TT), which is
the D594 pad.

What other upgrade kits are you guys using?

::I realize this comes at an interesting time, when the market is flooded by
::fire sale discounted Hawk Blue pads (and a darn good price that is, too!).
::Just so you know I am serious about the Panther Plus pads, I intend to fit
::all three of our VR4's with them.

The Hawk Blue that is on your guys' market right now is great on the track,
and as I mentioned before, makes a very good enduro race pad, but it cannot
under any circumstances (and I know Hawk will agree with this...) be driven
on the street without seriously compromising rotor life.

I'll stay tuned...and many thanks to Chuck for organizing this arrangement.

- -Andie

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:21:40 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: OT: Sears Point NASA Pro Racing Gathering Oct 27/28

{{{ Here is the latest info about the gathering at Sears Point Raceway in
Northern California, an hour North of SF.  If you have questions that aren't
answered below, please email us privately, OFF the list. Contact: Jeff or me
(Bay Area), Jim Berry (S.Cal), or Jim Elferdink (PNW/NCal) to set up travel
convoys. }}}

Team3S and Speedtoys and our friends/family from all over the West Coast
will be participating in the NASA Pro Racing HPDE (High Performance Driving
Event) on Saturday and Sunday, October 27 & 28th, 2001.  We will be hosting
the Free NASA BBQ on Saturday night, and we are discussing with NASA the
possibility of a Parade lap in conjunction with a Children's Charity -
giving underprivileged kids a pass around the track (safe speeds, of
course).

We gather around Jeff/Nissa's white Speedtoys trailer (double purple awning,
generator, A/C, tools...) - photo here: http://www.speedtoys.com/amjeep.html
The accomodations of choice are at Inn Marin: http://www.innmarin.com/  on
Hwy 101 about 15 minutes from the track.  Or go to the Sears Point website
for other choices:  http://www.searspoint.com .  You will also find track
maps there...

One day costs $179, the second day is $120, and includes four full runs each
day.  Pick the group that's most appropriate for your driving skills
(instructors are available for all groups).  Group 1 is Novice (no passing
until permission is given), and Group 2 is 'advanced' Novice, with more
relaxed passing rules.  Group 3 is for experienced racers (passing on the
straight, turn 7 & turn 5 - unlimited passing in the last race Saturday and
all day Sunday).  Group 4 is for the *very* experienced, with previous runs
in Group 3, and for those looking to get professional credentials.  Passing
in G4 is 'unlimited', except as dictated by good sense...

NASA ProRacing HPDE and Race Event - Click Here to Register:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/typ_html_nav.asp?ObjectID=6128

Current list of attendees:

Geoff Mohler
Nissa Mohler
Bob Forrest
Eileen Thomas {"ET"}
Jim Berry
Kirt Zobel
Ann Koch
Jim Elferdink
Michael Baldwin
Damon Rachell
Walt Wolney
Chris Winkley [probably]
Ken Middaugh [maybe]

This is going to be a great time!  Many of us have already driven this track
and it is terrific fun.  It is just made for AWD, but ET and I have been
having a ball in our NT, too.  There are a few pictures from our Sept29/30
weekend at Sears Point (with more to photos follow) on the Speedtoys site:
http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/sp-9-29.

Get in touch with us and sign up!!!  See you there!

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:43:24 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: OT: Sears Point NASA Pro Racing Gathering Oct 27/2 8

you guys are gonna have a blast!  be sure to share track reports and pix
later!

Chuck Willis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Forrest [SMTP:bf@bobforrest.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:22 AM
> To: Team3S; 3sracers@speedtoys.com
> Subject: 3S-Racers: OT: Sears Point NASA Pro Racing Gathering Oct
> 27/28
>
> {{{ Here is the latest info about the gathering at Sears Point Raceway in
> Northern California, an hour North of SF.  If you have questions that
> aren't
> answered below, please email us privately, OFF the list. Contact: Jeff or
> me
> (Bay Area), Jim Berry (S.Cal), or Jim Elferdink (PNW/NCal) to set up
> travel
> convoys. }}}
>
> Team3S and Speedtoys and our friends/family from all over the West Coast
> will be participating in the NASA Pro Racing HPDE (High Performance
> Driving
> Event) on Saturday and Sunday, October 27 & 28th, 2001.  We will be
> hosting
> the Free NASA BBQ on Saturday night, and we are discussing with NASA the
> possibility of a Parade lap in conjunction with a Children's Charity -
> giving underprivileged kids a pass around the track (safe speeds, of
> course).
>
> We gather around Jeff/Nissa's white Speedtoys trailer (double purple
> awning,
> generator, A/C, tools...) - photo here:
> http://www.speedtoys.com/amjeep.html
> The accomodations of choice are at Inn Marin: http://www.innmarin.com/  on
> Hwy 101 about 15 minutes from the track.  Or go to the Sears Point website
> for other choices:  http://www.searspoint.com .  You will also find track
> maps there...
>
> One day costs $179, the second day is $120, and includes four full runs
> each
> day.  Pick the group that's most appropriate for your driving skills
> (instructors are available for all groups).  Group 1 is Novice (no passing
> until permission is given), and Group 2 is 'advanced' Novice, with more
> relaxed passing rules.  Group 3 is for experienced racers (passing on the
> straight, turn 7 & turn 5 - unlimited passing in the last race Saturday
> and
> all day Sunday).  Group 4 is for the *very* experienced, with previous
> runs
> in Group 3, and for those looking to get professional credentials.
> Passing
> in G4 is 'unlimited', except as dictated by good sense...
>
> NASA ProRacing HPDE and Race Event - Click Here to Register:
> http://www.nasaproracing.com/typ_html_nav.asp?ObjectID=6128
>
> Current list of attendees:
>
> Geoff Mohler
> Nissa Mohler
> Bob Forrest
> Eileen Thomas {"ET"}
> Jim Berry
> Kirt Zobel
> Ann Koch
> Jim Elferdink
> Michael Baldwin
> Damon Rachell
> Walt Wolney
> Chris Winkley [probably]
> Ken Middaugh [maybe]
>
> This is going to be a great time!  Many of us have already driven this
> track
> and it is terrific fun.  It is just made for AWD, but ET and I have been
> having a ball in our NT, too.  There are a few pictures from our Sept29/30
> weekend at Sears Point (with more to photos follow) on the Speedtoys site:
> http://www.speedtoys.com/~gemohler/sp-9-29.
>
> Get in touch with us and sign up!!!  See you there!
>
>
> Forrest
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:27:27 -0600
From: "Zach Sauerman" <axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Engine light on and off- what's going on?

Good morning.
It seems that my engine light has taken on the role of game show host. I
have an idea of what could be wrong, but I would like to tap the knowledge
of the list.
On Saturday I was getting onto I25 and was about 60mph beginning a turn.
Weather is fine, cd player on, headlights off, blinkers off, climate off,
just shifted into 4th. The music cuts out and there is clicking. The ABS
light comes on, then all the lights come on. I was not sure if the engine
stopped and turned over because I was in gear, clutch engaged. I worried
about losing brakes and steering on the on-ramp. But, the lights just turned
off, the engine light stayed on for a few more seconds, then everything was
fine. I switched my turbo timer to ead the system voltage, and it was
reading ~14V like it always does. Oil pressure and coolant read normal on
the stock gauges.
No further incidents until Saturday night. Weather is fine- just cool. I
start up, give her time to warm, voltage is fine, headlights on, cabin heat
on, radio off. I go first and start rolling and the engine light comes on
and in a second or two goes off and stays off. Nothing else that night.
Monday afternoon I am backing out of the parking lot, weather is fine,
headlights off, climate off, radio off. The engine light comes on, the car
shudders a bit almost like I messed up in manipulating the clutch (but I
hadn't), and then the light goes off. Nothing else since.
Three weeks ago I installed new NGK PFR6J-11's in all six gapped to .040in
and new Magnecor KV85. Two weeks ago, myself and I gutted the precats- front
removed but the rear in the car as everyone said had to be done.
My suspicion is that we hit the oxygen sensor. The bit was about 8in long
from shank to tip, so effectively was only 6 in long, but the drill couldn't
fit completely into the downpipe. I figure only 5in of the bit could get up
in there. We were able to punch through the cat, but how far upstream is the
sensor? I never even saw it.
So, if anybody has some input, please share.
Thank you.

Respectfully,
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:47:37 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine light on and off- what's going on?

Do you have a blow-off valve?

It is very hard to hit the O2s up in there, when doing the rear cat.

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White R/T TT

Zach Sauerman wrote:

> Good morning.
> It seems that my engine light has taken on the role of game show host. I
> have an idea of what could be wrong, but I would like to tap the knowledge
> of the list.
> On Saturday I was getting onto I25 and was about 60mph beginning a turn.
> Weather is fine, cd player on, headlights off, blinkers off, climate off,
> just shifted into 4th. The music cuts out and there is clicking. The ABS
> light comes on, then all the lights come on. I was not sure if the engine
> stopped and turned over because I was in gear, clutch engaged. I worried
> about losing brakes and steering on the on-ramp. But, the lights just turned
> off, the engine light stayed on for a few more seconds, then everything was
> fine. I switched my turbo timer to ead the system voltage, and it was
> reading ~14V like it always does. Oil pressure and coolant read normal on
> the stock gauges.
> No further incidents until Saturday night. Weather is fine- just cool. I
> start up, give her time to warm, voltage is fine, headlights on, cabin heat
> on, radio off. I go first and start rolling and the engine light comes on
> and in a second or two goes off and stays off. Nothing else that night.
> Monday afternoon I am backing out of the parking lot, weather is fine,
> headlights off, climate off, radio off. The engine light comes on, the car
> shudders a bit almost like I messed up in manipulating the clutch (but I
> hadn't), and then the light goes off. Nothing else since.
> Three weeks ago I installed new NGK PFR6J-11's in all six gapped to .040in
> and new Magnecor KV85. Two weeks ago, myself and I gutted the precats- front
> removed but the rear in the car as everyone said had to be done.
> My suspicion is that we hit the oxygen sensor. The bit was about 8in long
> from shank to tip, so effectively was only 6 in long, but the drill couldn't
> fit completely into the downpipe. I figure only 5in of the bit could get up
> in there. We were able to punch through the cat, but how far upstream is the
> sensor? I never even saw it.
> So, if anybody has some input, please share.
> Thank you.
>
> Respectfully,
> Zach Sauerman
> '94 Pearl Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:47:43 -0000
From: "Michael Bulaon" <profilevr4@3000gtvr4.net>
Subject: Team3S: C.V Boot Replacement Question.

Yesterday as I was removing my passenger side front strut for replacement,
when the hub assembly lowered, it pulled the passenger side axle apart at
the differential side C.V. boot.

I just ordered the boot kit, just wondering if anyone had any info or tips
for doing this job on my own.

Thanks.

Michael Bulaon

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:55:08 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: C.V Boot Replacement Question.

Without the crimping tool, its hard to do a good job.  I took mine to Pep
Boys, they did it for like $10/15.  Saved buying the tool and some ibuprofin.

Ken

Michael Bulaon wrote:

> Yesterday as I was removing my passenger side front strut for replacement,
> when the hub assembly lowered, it pulled the passenger side axle apart at
> the differential side C.V. boot.
>
> I just ordered the boot kit, just wondering if anyone had any info or tips
> for doing this job on my own.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael Bulaon

Ken Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed transmission  (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:49:07 -0400
From: Curtis McConnel <CMcConnel@Pulte.com>
Subject: Team3S: ARC II

I have a 1995 Vr-4 and installed the ACR II the other day. After everything
was hooked up the ARM (that is wired to the 02 sensor pin in the ECU) was
staying at lean (second light from the left) but my autometer gauge was
cycling just fine (hooked up to the back 02).
My question is the car was running pretty rich, was dying on occasion and
the idle was dipping between 800-1000RPM's. I played with the setting and
help a tiny bit but the cars idle was still dipping. I looked at the wiring
and everything seems to be hooked up fine. Any ideas??!! I called GT Pro and
couldn't get any answers.

Curtis
1995 Vr-4 Spyder

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:05:11 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: OT: Sears Point NASA Pro Racing Gathering Oct 27/28

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
> you guys are gonna have a blast!  be sure to share track reports and pix
later!
> Chuck Willis
- ------------------------>

Thanks, Doc, we wish you could join us!  We'll get pix/reports up as soon as
we can after the event.  I never did get a chance to do a 'proper' race
report for Team3S about our mini-gathering at Thunderhill June 30/July 1,
but I did put up some pictures for friends/family (which is why our Stealth
is at the top of the page)  :-) but it's worth a look anyway...
www.Team3S.com/THill.htm

You just reminded me that Jeff also has many pix/videos on the Speedtoys
site from our other NASA HPDE events at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, & Sears
Point earlier this year:  www.Speedtoys.com

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:15:44 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

> I have a 1995 Vr-4 and installed the ACR II the other day.
> After everything was hooked up the ARM (that is wired to the
> 02 sensor pin in the ECU) was staying at lean (second light
> from the left) but my autometer gauge was cycling just fine
> (hooked up to the back 02). My question is the car was
> running pretty rich, was dying on occasion and the idle was
> dipping between 800-1000RPM's. I played with the setting and
> help a tiny bit but the cars idle was still dipping. I looked
> at the wiring and everything seems to be hooked up fine. Any
> ideas??!! I called GT Pro and couldn't get any answers.

Try hooking the ARM-1 to the other O2 sensor (same one your Autometer gauge
is connected to) and see if that makes a difference.  Might have a bad O2
sensor, but I'd expect a check engine light if that was the case.  Also
check the ground on the ARM-1 to make sure it is secure.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:38:39 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

have you checked to see if any error codes were stored?  even when the check
engine light goes out because an error condition was corrected, some ECU
error codes are retained until manually reset.

Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:16 PM
> To: 'Curtis McConnel'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> > I have a 1995 Vr-4 and installed the ACR II the other day.
> > After everything was hooked up the ARM (that is wired to the
> > 02 sensor pin in the ECU) was staying at lean (second light
> > from the left) but my autometer gauge was cycling just fine
> > (hooked up to the back 02). My question is the car was
> > running pretty rich, was dying on occasion and the idle was
> > dipping between 800-1000RPM's. I played with the setting and
> > help a tiny bit but the cars idle was still dipping. I looked
> > at the wiring and everything seems to be hooked up fine. Any
> > ideas??!! I called GT Pro and couldn't get any answers.
>
> Try hooking the ARM-1 to the other O2 sensor (same one your Autometer
> gauge
> is connected to) and see if that makes a difference.  Might have a bad O2
> sensor, but I'd expect a check engine light if that was the case.  Also
> check the ground on the ARM-1 to make sure it is secure.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:41:40 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC II

But a bad O2 sensor won't set a check engine light, will it?  I know it won't on
my '91, and I know his is a '95 OBD, but I thought the ECU took the O2 signal as
always correct?

Ken

"Willis, Charles E." wrote:

> have you checked to see if any error codes were stored?  even when the check
> engine light goes out because an error condition was corrected, some ECU
> error codes are retained until manually reset.
>
> Chuck
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:16 PM
> > To:   'Curtis McConnel'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject:      RE: Team3S: ARC II
> >
> > > I have a 1995 Vr-4 and installed the ACR II the other day.
> > > After everything was hooked up the ARM (that is wired to the
> > > 02 sensor pin in the ECU) was staying at lean (second light
> > > from the left) but my autometer gauge was cycling just fine
> > > (hooked up to the back 02). My question is the car was
> > > running pretty rich, was dying on occasion and the idle was
> > > dipping between 800-1000RPM's. I played with the setting and
> > > help a tiny bit but the cars idle was still dipping. I looked
> > > at the wiring and everything seems to be hooked up fine. Any
> > > ideas??!! I called GT Pro and couldn't get any answers.
> >
> > Try hooking the ARM-1 to the other O2 sensor (same one your Autometer
> > gauge
> > is connected to) and see if that makes a difference.  Might have a bad O2
> > sensor, but I'd expect a check engine light if that was the case.  Also
> > check the ground on the ARM-1 to make sure it is secure.
> >
> > -Matt
> > '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

Ken Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed transmission  (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:58:22 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I expect some code
should be retained.

don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we were going for
0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to prevent detonation at high boost
and high speed.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Stanton [SMTP:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:42 PM
> Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC II
>
> But a bad O2 sensor won't set a check engine light, will it?  I know it
> won't on
> my '91, and I know his is a '95 OBD, but I thought the ECU took the O2
> signal as
> always correct?
>
> Ken
>
> "Willis, Charles E." wrote:
>
> > have you checked to see if any error codes were stored?  even when the
> check
> > engine light goes out because an error condition was corrected, some ECU
> > error codes are retained until manually reset.
> >
> > Chuck
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:16 PM
> > > To:   'Curtis McConnel'; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > > Subject:      RE: Team3S: ARC II
> > >
> > > > I have a 1995 Vr-4 and installed the ACR II the other day.
> > > > After everything was hooked up the ARM (that is wired to the
> > > > 02 sensor pin in the ECU) was staying at lean (second light
> > > > from the left) but my autometer gauge was cycling just fine
> > > > (hooked up to the back 02). My question is the car was
> > > > running pretty rich, was dying on occasion and the idle was
> > > > dipping between 800-1000RPM's. I played with the setting and
> > > > help a tiny bit but the cars idle was still dipping. I looked
> > > > at the wiring and everything seems to be hooked up fine. Any
> > > > ideas??!! I called GT Pro and couldn't get any answers.
> > >
> > > Try hooking the ARM-1 to the other O2 sensor (same one your Autometer
> > > gauge
> > > is connected to) and see if that makes a difference.  Might have a bad
> O2
> > > sensor, but I'd expect a check engine light if that was the case.
> Also
> > > check the ground on the ARM-1 to make sure it is secure.
> > >
> > > -Matt
> > > '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
> Ken Stanton
> Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
> '91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
> Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
> FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
> Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
> 6-speed transmission  (5-6 speed conversion)
> Aiwa MP3 Stereo

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:54:14 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

Umm Chuck, AFAIK you do not gap plugs down to prevent denotation at high
boost you gap the plugs down to prevent spark blow out at high end.  The
"sputtering" you feel when you first turn up the wick on any turbocharged
car is generally spark blow out not detonation.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:58 PM
> Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I expect some code
> should be retained.
>
> don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we were going for
> 0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to prevent detonation at high boost
> and high speed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:18:06 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

okay, to prevent stumbling at high speed and high boost.
the lower compression ratio in the turbo cars is to prevent detonation.

so why would someone use 0.040"?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Furman, Russell [SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:54 PM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> Umm Chuck, AFAIK you do not gap plugs down to prevent denotation at high
> boost you gap the plugs down to prevent spark blow out at high end.  The
> "sputtering" you feel when you first turn up the wick on any turbocharged
> car is generally spark blow out not detonation.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Willis, Charles E.
> [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:58 PM
> > Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> >
> > don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I expect some code
> > should be retained.
> >
> > don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we were going
> for
> > 0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to prevent detonation at high
> boost
> > and high speed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:06:15 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

> don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I
> expect some code should be retained.
>
> don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we
> were going for 0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to
> prevent detonation at high boost and high speed.

Curtis is saying that the ARM-1 A/F ratio meter isn't displaying what he
expects to see.  I think the ARM-1 is working okay, since it was working
when I removed it from my car (Curtis' ARC-2 setup is my old one).  Another
possibility is that somehow one of the wires got crimped during removal
(which could be tested by taking the ARM-1 apart and checking continuity -
but I doubt that's the problem).

It should either be an O2 sensor or somewhere in the connections something
isn't quite right.

Zach is the one having the check engine light coming on and the car stalling
out.  It almost sounds like the ECU is somehow losing power.  Maybe check
the connections for the turbo timer to make sure those connections are
solid, or try removing the turbo timer temporarily to see if there is any
effect.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:07:22 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

The smaller a gap you run the worse the car idles.... hence the reason
everyone buys those HKS or MSD ignition upgrades.  IMHO if you simply
replace the coil packs on any car with over 75K miles you generally do not
run in to rough idle problems. I just replaced mine and was able to up my
gap from .032 to .035 and still have no noticeable spark blowout but
significantly improved idle :)

Russ "VR-4 no longer idles like a diesel" F
CT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E. [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:18 PM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> okay, to prevent stumbling at high speed and high boost.
> the lower compression ratio in the turbo cars is to prevent detonation.
>
> so why would someone use 0.040"?
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Furman, Russell [SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:54 PM
> > To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> >
> > Umm Chuck, AFAIK you do not gap plugs down to prevent denotation at high
> > boost you gap the plugs down to prevent spark blow out at high end.  The
> > "sputtering" you feel when you first turn up the wick on any
> turbocharged
> > car is generally spark blow out not detonation.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Willis, Charles E.
> > [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> > >
> > > don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I expect some
> code
> > > should be retained.
> > >
> > > don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we were going
> > for
> > > 0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to prevent detonation at high
> > boost
> > > and high speed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:13:01 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC II

Yes, 0.04 is way too large if not an Acell coil setup and ignition amp is
used.
0.028 to 0.034 is what is needed to prevent spark blow out.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 9:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II


> okay, to prevent stumbling at high speed and high boost.
> the lower compression ratio in the turbo cars is to prevent detonation.
>
> so why would someone use 0.040"?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:13:59 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

> so why would someone use 0.040"?

.040 is the stock gap (actually .039 to .043in), so if a person is looking
through the service manual and stuff that's the spec they'll find.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:16:20 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC II

No, we don't have idle problems even with 0.028 gap and very old coils
running 20 psi. Amplifiers alone do nothing on our cars. The combination
with the correct coils and plugs does the trick. You may had another problem
that has been cured during the proper install (or really a bad coil)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> The smaller a gap you run the worse the car idles.... hence the reason
> everyone buys those HKS or MSD ignition upgrades.  IMHO if you simply
> replace the coil packs on any car with over 75K miles you generally do not
> run in to rough idle problems. I just replaced mine and was able to up my
> gap from .032 to .035 and still have no noticeable spark blowout but
> significantly improved idle :)


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:15:11 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

Hey Francis how many miles are on you car? Are you still on the stock pea
shooters? What kind of boost are you running stock (12 psi) or more (15 psi)
?  Also have ever just sat down in front of driver side wheel (outside the
car) and just listened for the occasional miss?  Honestly if you have never
run across a rough idle be thankful it is kin of annoying.

Russ F
93 VR4
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morice, Francis [SMTP:francis.morice@retek.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:10 PM
> To: Furman, Russell
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> I have mine set at .32 and I experience no rough idle, just the occasional
> backfire at the higher rpm.
>
> Francis
> '96 RT/TT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Furman, Russell [mailto:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:07 PM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
>
> The smaller a gap you run the worse the car idles.... hence the reason
> everyone buys those HKS or MSD ignition upgrades.  IMHO if you simply
> replace the coil packs on any car with over 75K miles you generally do not
> run in to rough idle problems. I just replaced mine and was able to up my
> gap from .032 to .035 and still have no noticeable spark blowout but
> significantly improved idle :)
>
> Russ "VR-4 no longer idles like a diesel" F
> CT
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Willis, Charles E.
> [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:18 PM
> > To: 'Team 3S'
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> >
> > okay, to prevent stumbling at high speed and high boost.
> > the lower compression ratio in the turbo cars is to prevent detonation.
> >
> > so why would someone use 0.040"?
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Furman, Russell [SMTP:RFurman2@MassMutual.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:54 PM
> > > To: 'Willis, Charles E.'; 'Team 3S'
> > > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> > >
> > > Umm Chuck, AFAIK you do not gap plugs down to prevent denotation at
> high
> > > boost you gap the plugs down to prevent spark blow out at high end.
> The
> > > "sputtering" you feel when you first turn up the wick on any
> > turbocharged
> > > car is generally spark blow out not detonation.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Willis, Charles E.
> > > [SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > > Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > > > Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
> > > >
> > > > don't know.  He said the check engine light came on - I expect some
> > code
> > > > should be retained.
> > > >
> > > > don't understand the 0.040" gap he set either. I thought we were
> going
> > > for
> > > > 0.034" if we ran boost around 14.7 psi to prevent detonation at high
> > > boost
> > > > and high speed.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:34:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

From what I have read, the "downstream" O2 sensors (after the precats
in the DP) are used to check on pre-cat functioning. Before the
pre-cat, the "upstream" sensors will output a voltage that cycles
from about 0.1 to about 0.8 volts when the engine is operating in
closed loop mode. If the pre-cat is functioning correctly, the
"downstream" O2 sensor will also show a cycling voltage but of much
less range and longer cycles. I don't know the exact range but think
of something like 0.35 to 0.55 volts. If the downstream O2 sensor
output a constant 0.45 volts (or whatever the "stoichiometric
voltage" is) then the pre-cat would be working perfectly. This
suggests a constant voltage near 0.45 might fool the ECM. Of course,
check with the maker of the "fooler" O2 sensors for specifics. Or
even make up something that puts out 0.45 volts and see.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>; <NassiriC@aol.com>;
"Team3S (E-mail)" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

I have a 93 so I don't have that problem, but I thought the issue was
that you have front and rear O2 sensors and the ecu looks at the
difference between a front and rear pair and sets the check engine
light if it doesn't like the answer ---- somehow you need to fool the
sensor.

        Jim Berry
====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Morice, Francis <francis.morice@retek.com>
To: <NassiriC@aol.com>; Team3S (E-mail) <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:36 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

That article is about *motorcyle* trannies, which are a different
critter than our automotive trannies. A "rattling" gearbox is not
common in our cars, or at least not in any that I have been in or
have talked to their owners about. We have heard complaints from lots
of owners and a rattling trany is not a common one.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
To: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>; "'Team 3S'"
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:06 PM
Subject: Team3S: Rattling gearbox, was Lightweight Flywheels -
Pros/Cons

> I am not talking about feel Jim  ;)   Literally at idle my car
rattles
(the
> gearbox internals from the sound) I talked with a bunch of the
smart guys

This is a very common problem with our Getrag trannys as well as
other
Getrags.  Vineet S. posted the following link eons ago about Getrag
problems:  http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/trans.articles.html
Although it describes problems with the BMW Getrag, I swear I was
reading about my own tranny ;)

- -Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:58:10 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

Thanks, Matt, it's been so long since we started regapping (three plus
years), I forgot what was in the service manual!

We don't have any idle problems with the reduced gap.  I thought the ECU was
supposed to compensate by advancing/retarding the timing for that anyhow?

Is it time to put down the crack pipe again?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jannusch, Matt [SMTP:mjannusch@marketwatch.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:14 PM
> To: 'Team 3S'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II
>
> > so why would someone use 0.040"?
>
> .040 is the stock gap (actually .039 to .043in), so if a person is looking
> through the service manual and stuff that's the spec they'll find.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:49:07 -0500
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC II

Can someone explain to me the advantage of lowering the compression ratio?
I agree it would prevent detonation, but doesn't lowering the ratio do the
same thing turning down the boost would do.

You're getting detonation because the air/fuel is being compressed to a
point that spontaneously ignites the fuel, right?  So reducing the ratio
will make less compression, less knock, and less horse power.  Lowering the
boost would seem to be an easier modification to accomplish the same task.
The only advantage I could see is if lowering the ratio allows you to run
enough more boost to compensate for the lower ratio.

Ok, now tell me where I went off the road at, because I usually miss
something? ;)

Just curious...
Christopher

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To: "'Team 3S'" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II


> okay, to prevent stumbling at high speed and high boost.
> the lower compression ratio in the turbo cars is to prevent detonation.
>
> so why would someone use 0.040"?
>
> Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:03:52 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts

Hi guys/gals I was doing some random thinking (this is dangerous for me I
may hurt myself) I am wondering what inputs are used by the ECM to determine
when to engage fuel cut? Is it one signal line or multiple is really what I
am curious about and what is the max voltage it needs to see to induce fuel
cut? Obviously if changed year to year I would like to know that also i.e.
if 91-93's need to see 4.3 volts but 94-99's only need to see 4.1 volts.

I know a GFORCE'd ECU changes ing/fuel maps and remove fuel cut, but 750
bucks is a hell of alot of money to spend when we are just going to be
fooling the input signals of the damn thing any way.

I saw on Roger's web site he hit fuel cut at like 15.5 psi.  That is really
a low cut threshold and has me wondering if we can maybe get around this
little problem

Russ F
CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:48:48 -0400
From: "Mark Elkin" <markelkin@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released and
the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha tranny does.

Mark
'96 VR-4
'97 YZF 600R

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff Lucius
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:41 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox


That article is about *motorcyle* trannies, which are a different
critter than our automotive trannies. A "rattling" gearbox is not
common in our cars, or at least not in any that I have been in or
have talked to their owners about. We have heard complaints from lots
of owners and a rattling trany is not a common one.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
To: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>; "'Team 3S'"
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:06 PM
Subject: Team3S: Rattling gearbox, was Lightweight Flywheels -
Pros/Cons

> I am not talking about feel Jim  ;)   Literally at idle my car
rattles
(the
> gearbox internals from the sound) I talked with a bunch of the
smart guys

This is a very common problem with our Getrag trannys as well as
other
Getrags.  Vineet S. posted the following link eons ago about Getrag
problems:  http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/trans.articles.html
Although it describes problems with the BMW Getrag, I swear I was
reading about my own tranny ;)

- -Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:14:07 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

Hey Mark, and anyone else with a rattling tranny do you have a Light weight
fly wheel? I really don't care who makes it more of a yes or no type of
thing. 

Jeff do you have a LW FW? 

I think our cars rattle like the MKIV b/c at idle with clutch pedal released
the dampening effect of our stock flywheel prevents most of the engine
vibrations from being passed to the tranny. With a LW FW the dampening
effect is not there hence the rattle.  BTW from what I am to understand it
is gears and syncros vibrating that causes this rattle. Also the MKIV list
general consensus is that this rattle causes nominal wear to the gear box
compared to powershifting or speedshifting

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Elkin [SMTP:markelkin@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:49 PM
> To: Team 3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>
> Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released
> and
> the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha tranny does.
>
> Mark
> '96 VR-4
> '97 YZF 600R
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Jeff Lucius
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:41 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>
>
> That article is about *motorcyle* trannies, which are a different
> critter than our automotive trannies. A "rattling" gearbox is not
> common in our cars, or at least not in any that I have been in or
> have talked to their owners about. We have heard complaints from lots
> of owners and a rattling trany is not a common one.
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:40:30 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

I had a light weight wheel, by Bozzspeed.  I had 2 noises - a rattle and a
clunking (sounded like a rod knock!).  The rattle I only heard when in neutral
(most likely t/o bearing) and the clunking went away when I pushed the clutch
pedal down.

Ken

"Furman, Russell" wrote:

> Hey Mark, and anyone else with a rattling tranny do you have a Light weight
> fly wheel? I really don't care who makes it more of a yes or no type of
> thing.
>
> Jeff do you have a LW FW?
>
> I think our cars rattle like the MKIV b/c at idle with clutch pedal released
> the dampening effect of our stock flywheel prevents most of the engine
> vibrations from being passed to the tranny. With a LW FW the dampening
> effect is not there hence the rattle.  BTW from what I am to understand it
> is gears and syncros vibrating that causes this rattle. Also the MKIV list
> general consensus is that this rattle causes nominal wear to the gear box
> compared to powershifting or speedshifting
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Elkin [SMTP:markelkin@mindspring.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:49 PM
> > To:   Team 3S
> > Subject:      RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
> >
> > Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released
> > and
> > the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha tranny does.
> >
> > Mark
> > '96 VR-4
> > '97 YZF 600R
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> > Of Jeff Lucius
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:41 PM
> > To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
> >
> >
> > That article is about *motorcyle* trannies, which are a different
> > critter than our automotive trannies. A "rattling" gearbox is not
> > common in our cars, or at least not in any that I have been in or
> > have talked to their owners about. We have heard complaints from lots
> > of owners and a rattling trany is not a common one.
> >
> > Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
Ken Stanton
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
'91 Pearl White R/T TwinTurbo
Super Snoopy - Plates 007KEN
FIPK, HKS Exhaust, APEXi AVC-R, Improved Precats
Bozzspeed Lightweight Flywheel, RPS Stage II
6-speed transmission  (5-6 speed conversion)
Aiwa MP3 Stereo


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:43:39 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel Cut Thoughts

> may hurt myself) I am wondering what inputs are used by the ECM to
determine
> when to engage fuel cut?

Knock sensor and calculated fuel value out of the fuel table(s).

> I know a GFORCE'd ECU changes ing/fuel maps and remove fuel cut, but 750
> bucks is a hell of alot of money to spend when we are just going to be
> fooling the input signals of the damn thing any way.

They do lock fuel to one map and change the values and offset parameters so
the value cannot jump off the map due to the high airflow input. Solution :
larger injectors with a fuel controller.

> I saw on Roger's web site he hit fuel cut at like 15.5 psi.  That is
really
> a low cut threshold and has me wondering if we can maybe get around this
> little problem

Only when I used a fuel controller to foul the ECU. I wanted to give more
fuel so I increased the airflow signal simulating more air. The result was
that the value that was searched on the map was not found anymore and this
initiated fuel cut. Also then I had knock even at low boost what also caused
fuel cut.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

> Russ F
> CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:50:38 -0700
From: "Watkins, Jim" <jim.watkins@terayon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

This rattling gearbox or clattering clutch as I called it was present on my
91 VR4 only when in neutral and clutch pedal released.  It has not shown up
yet on my 95 Spyder VR4.  Both had stock clutches, etc.  Possibly this is an
indication of wear on the clutch?

Jim
95 3000GT Spyder VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Elkin [mailto:markelkin@mindspring.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:49 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released and
the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha tranny does.

Mark
'96 VR-4
'97 YZF 600R

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:56:29 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

Jeff,

In my limited research into this matter, the "downstream" O2 sensors are not
supposed to send anything to the ECM until the engine is warmed up 80c or
above or approx 3 minutes have passed since the engine has started(and a
couple of other things are in the range of check) at which point, if the
voltage stays at a certain level it doesn't like for more than 5 seconds it
trips the check engine light.

From what I am reading, if the rear output voltage is .1v or less, or if the
front output voltage is greater than .5v and both conditions last for 5
continous seconds, the check engine light will come on. I abbreviated some
of this from the manual.

Francis
'96 RT/TT

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius [mailto:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 2:34 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

From what I have read, the "downstream" O2 sensors (after the precats
in the DP) are used to check on pre-cat functioning. Before the
pre-cat, the "upstream" sensors will output a voltage that cycles
from about 0.1 to about 0.8 volts when the engine is operating in
closed loop mode. If the pre-cat is functioning correctly, the
"downstream" O2 sensor will also show a cycling voltage but of much
less range and longer cycles. I don't know the exact range but think
of something like 0.35 to 0.55 volts. If the downstream O2 sensor
output a constant 0.45 volts (or whatever the "stoichiometric
voltage" is) then the pre-cat would be working perfectly. This
suggests a constant voltage near 0.45 might fool the ECM. Of course,
check with the maker of the "fooler" O2 sensors for specifics. Or
even make up something that puts out 0.45 volts and see.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>; <NassiriC@aol.com>;
"Team3S (E-mail)" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

I have a 93 so I don't have that problem, but I thought the issue was
that you have front and rear O2 sensors and the ecu looks at the
difference between a front and rear pair and sets the check engine
light if it doesn't like the answer ---- somehow you need to fool the
sensor.

        Jim Berry
====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Morice, Francis <francis.morice@retek.com>
To: <NassiriC@aol.com>; Team3S (E-mail) <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:36 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: FYI About Gutted Pre-Cats on OBD-II cars

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:21:49 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??

> Umm, Roger there are only two EPROM's for the VPC (AFAIK) 360CC injectors
> and 550CC injectors (since our cars are not available with auto's there
are
> not additional EPROM's just ask Dusty at MVP about how many EPROM's there
> are for the MKIV).

AAM does them for a 720cc setup. I also programmed some but the result was
not good. I used one from GT PRO but when I sold it I was told that teh
EPROM doesn't work :-/

> Also worth noting  when you install a SAFC or SFC you
> simply cut the output wire from the VPC before the harness on itself.

Well, you use them to fine tune the VPC or ARC.

> Roger I think I understand what you are getting at.... but since you are a
> Dyno whore anyway ;)  the next time you go have them read your A/F at you
> low street (15 psi or what ever) and at you high street boost (18 psi or
> what ever you run) and have them log both.

I used an oxygen sniffer in the exhaust but I don't knwo the numbers
anymore. Our engines must run rich to prevent knock. An at the end it is
knock we have to fight and for this we see the O2 sensor value on the
datalogger as well as the IDC. Depending on the fuel you can run leaner
without knock so when I strapped down the car onto the drums, the A/F value
is not interesting anymore as I have to adjust fuel delivery to get around
0.9 volts on the O2 sensor. With pump gas this is about 0.92-0.94V as below
of that knock starts to appear. Of course this is rich :) but I'm too tired
right now to calculate the A/F ratio out of this value :-)

> Oh BTW does anyone know if AAM allows people to rent the Dyno for like
4hrs
> at a time and what does the waiting list look like?

Yes, they do but they take you also an arm and a leg ... they are damn
expensive :( Also we still haven't found a way to compare their data to the
one here in Europe. In the UK they just had several cars on the dyno and we
compared the results with mine I did over the last years.

> just mathematical equations/theories.  Roger I just looked your data
logs...
> interesting only one problem no A/F ratios.

As said, use the O2 sensor voltage curve and calculate. As I remember, 0.9V
represents A/F Ratio of 12,5:1 and this is where I tune the car into. The
dynos I use do not have the recording capability as it is also not necessary
when knock and O2 voltage can be read.

> understand the fact that people do not want to admit they spent allot of
> money on an ARC2 and got a good aftermarket fuel control system.... good
is
> just not good enough for me!

Therefore, get the MAP-Analyzer and PROM-Software that can be bought
somewhere. Then spend $750 for an EPROM upgrade by G-FORCE. The car will not
be perfect but learn how to handle the software and program your own map and
buy a PROMER to burn the EPROMS ! Then simply use an S-AFC to fine tune and
your done the SW is around $5000 but it is probably good enough for you ;-)

> circles... when I get the car strapped down in December I will have AAM
log
> everything and I will show everyone what I am talking about.

All I can say ... good luck :-)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:24:06 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ARC II

> The strange thing was at the car didn't idle well but when I
> would rap it up the check engine light would go off. As the
> car came back down to idle the check engine light would come
> on again. How can I check the code? I'll check the ground and
> 02 wire on the ECU from the ARM unit. Any other guesses?

Try increasing or decreasing the "Low" knob slowly (like once a minute or so
- - to let the stock ECU try to figure out fuel trims) until the CE light goes
out.  You can also try a click or two on the Accel knob.  Its probably
coming on because it thinks your airflow rates are too far out of spec...

It ain't easy without a datalogger.  :-(

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??

Russell,

There are aftermarket stand-alone engine management systems if that
is what you want. Every "translation" system, like the ARC2 and VPC,
will have limitations.

Perhaps my experience last night at the drag srip will help clarify
the operation of the ARC2. My first run had boost at 18 psi and
severe knock (audible and counts up to 28 in every gear). I increased
the "High" knob on the ARC2 two clicks (richer at highest air flows).
Next run at same boost had minimal knock (a few counts in 3rd gear).
For the third run I increased boost to 21 psi; and severe knock
returned. I didn't have time for a 4th run but next week I'll
increase ARC2 "High" settings again till I get the mixture right or
find the boost/knock limit. Before anyone asks, all times were over
14 seconds - testing and tuning remember? :)

The increase in fuel at higher boost levels is done to reduce knock.
At some point the engine will start to loose power (too rich) and an
alternate solution is required. I have an ERL Aquamist 2 WI system to
install this winter. Remember that the ARC2 and VPC are sensitive to
air flow, not RPM, when setting the translation curve. Theoretically,
the curve should work for 15 psi or 20 psi because we are at
different points on the curve.

It is no inconvenience to adjust the ARC2 knob when I change boost
levels (I usually keep it at 18 psi for the street). The race track
and the PocketLOGGER let me figure out what I need to set the
equipment at. The PL informed me that O2 were 0.84-0.90 v (depending
on gear), which is too low for my engine and street gas (91 octane)
and this altiitude (5500-5700' ASL).

As far as hard data about all I can record is RPM, knock, IPW, O2,
and whatever else the TMO/PL lets me. No AWD dyno in Colorado yet.
But the drag strip is a pretty good and safe place to test and tune
the system. Plus only $25 for all the runs I can get in.

From your comments I doubt you will be happy with either the ARC2 or
VPC. You should check the 3SI message board for the many discussions
we have had recently concerning stand alone systems. The current
favorite is the Autronic SM2 used by one our members, Mikael Kenson.

Good luck on your quest and keep us informed of developments.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
To: "'Roger Gerl'" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>; "'Team 3S'"
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or Split Second ARC2 ??

<snip>
I know I am being difficult but no one has yet showed Dyno runs
logging A/F for a 3S running pump gas for their low and high street
boost settings and the difference in fuel demands between the two
with out changing the setting they have on their ARC2. This is all I
am looking for...some hard data not just mathematical
equations/theories.  Roger I just looked your data logs...
interesting only one problem no A/F ratios.  What I am trying say
here is that no one has showed me the logs disproving my point. Now
while I understand the fact that people do not want to admit they
spent allot of money on an ARC2 and got a good aftermarket fuel
control system.... good is just not good enough for me!  I am anal
and want the certain target ranges maintained at ALL TIMES! and
everything I have seen so far shows that the ARC2 is easy to use but
far to course for personal tastes.
<snip>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:36:49 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2  continued

>AAM does them for a 720cc setup. I also programmed some but the result was
>not good. I used one from GT PRO but when I sold it I was told that the
>EPROM doesn't work :-/

Interesting, I will definitely file this for later use.


>As said, use the O2 sensor voltage curve and calculate. As I remember, 0.9V
>represents A/F Ratio of 12,5:1 and this is where I tune the car into. The
>dynos I use do not have the recording capability as it is also not
necessary
>when knock and O2 voltage can be read.

The problem with the above is that 12.5:1 on the dyno is lean as shit on the
street  :o    also the stock o2 sensors are jut not accurate enough for me
to feel comfortable tuning my car with. Even with a logger watching my knock
count, anything over a count of 10 is getting way too high for my personal
preference. You and I have both seen what inaudible knock can do, the
audible knock is the shit that blows ring landings and the like to pieces.


>Therefore, get the MAP-Analyzer and PROM-Software that can be bought
>somewhere. Then spend $750 for an EPROM upgrade by G-FORCE. The car will
not
>be perfect but learn how to handle the software and program your own map
and
>buy a PROMER to burn the EPROMS ! Then simply use an S-AFC to fine tune and
>your done the SW is around $5000 but it is probably good enough for you ;-)

Hah hah point taken.... like I said I would rather spend $800  tuning a car
right the first time then $2200 for a new OEM shortblock and then pay the
$800 for the proper tuning.  Which is why I am such a head case when it
comes to tuning. FYI  I only had my MKIV for 3.5 months and in that time I
logged over 70 pulls and something like 20 hrs of dyno time :)

>All I can say ... good luck :-)
I thank you but it wont be luck it will be persistency and borderline
physcosis that will get me to where I want to be.

Russ F
CT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 16:49:02 -0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS VPC or ARC2  continued

> Hah hah point taken.... like I said I would rather spend $800
> tuning a car right the first time then $2200 for a new OEM
> shortblock and then pay the $800 for the proper tuning. 
> Which is why I am such a head case when it comes to tuning.
> FYI  I only had my MKIV for 3.5 months and in that time I
> logged over 70 pulls and something like 20 hrs of dyno time :)

Okay, now here's something I can totally agree with...  I didn't spend
enough time properly tuning my car and the result was a few broken pistons
and damaged heads.  The rebuild costs are currently up to $3400 for parts
and machining alone and still incrementing.  The cost for proper monitoring
devices is an additional $500 or so, which if I had spent that money
up-front would've potentially saved my motor (and allowed me to drive my
rather expensive car this summer instead of it taking up space in the
garage).

Things I'd consider the bare minimum for instrumentation:

EGT (preferably dual EGT, with adjustable overtemp alarm)
A/F Ratio (dual or switchable)
Boost (everyone should really have that anyway)
Datalogger w/knock support or an MSD Knock Alert or similar

Using less than that is really dangerous, as I found out.  Everything seemed
okay until the pistons blew apart.

...so consider getting the proper instrumentation before going far enough
where you need fuel control.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:56:40 -0700
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox

I would say it's the throwout bearing,had it on my R/T + T/T.
RICK

Mark Elkin wrote:

> Count me in on the rattling tranny......when my clutch pedal is released and
> the tranny is not in gear, it rattles just like my Yamaha tranny does.
>
> Mark
> '96 VR-4
> '97 YZF 600R
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Jeff Lucius
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:41 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Rattling gearbox
>
> That article is about *motorcyle* trannies, which are a different
> critter than our automotive trannies. A "rattling" gearbox is not
> common in our cars, or at least not in any that I have been in or
> have talked to their owners about. We have heard complaints from lots
> of owners and a rattling trany is not a common one.
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
> To: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>; "'Team 3S'"
> <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:06 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Rattling gearbox, was Lightweight Flywheels -
> Pros/Cons
>
> > I am not talking about feel Jim  ;)   Literally at idle my car
> rattles
> (the
> > gearbox internals from the sound) I talked with a bunch of the
> smart guys
>
> This is a very common problem with our Getrag trannys as well as
> other
> Getrags.  Vineet S. posted the following link eons ago about Getrag
> problems:  http://www.roadkill.com/~davet/moto/trans.articles.html
> Although it describes problems with the BMW Getrag, I swear I was
> reading about my own tranny ;)
>
> -Ken

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 18:21:29 -0400
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Engine light on and off- what's going on?

Has anything been done to the battery? I know i had one problem with my battery being to small to fit in the stock battery tie down
bracket.. so i boosted it up with a small book to get it to fit good. This was two months before the car was roadworthy again from
other repairs i was making. My car liked to cut out and turn back on (in gear.. effectively turning the car back on when it cut
out).. seemed to happen only on turns or over bumps. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me till i saw black marks on the hood
lining over the battery.. seemed that by raising the battery the postive terminal would spark on the hood going over turns (even
though it was held down tight by the tie-down).. Lowering the battery fixed the problem.

This probably isnt your problem.. just my experience.. but it does sound like you have some sort of electrical problem.. possibly a
short.. could be a loose or corroded battery terminal, or perhaps corrosion or looseness on the ground strap attached to the
firewall or the tranny. I know this happened with one of our customer's cars.. after converting it from an auto to a manual tranny..
we had to attach the ground cable coming from the battery to a different location on the tranny.. the car would hesitate and lights
would flicker till we tightened down the ground cable to a better location.. car runs great since.

Omar
92 r/t

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Zach Sauerman
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:27 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Engine light on and off- what's going on?


Good morning.
It seems that my engine light has taken on the role of game show host. I
have an idea of what could be wrong, but I would like to tap the knowledge
of the list.
On Saturday I was getting onto I25 and was about 60mph beginning a turn.
Weather is fine, cd player on, headlights off, blinkers off, climate off,
just shifted into 4th. The music cuts out and there is clicking. The ABS
light comes on, then all the lights come on. I was not sure if the engine
stopped and turned over because I was in gear, clutch engaged. I worried
about losing brakes and steering on the on-ramp. But, the lights just turned
off, the engine light stayed on for a few more seconds, then everything was
fine. I switched my turbo timer to ead the system voltage, and it was
reading ~14V like it always does. Oil pressure and coolant read normal on
the stock gauges.
No further incidents until Saturday night. Weather is fine- just cool. I
start up, give her time to warm, voltage is fine, headlights on, cabin heat
on, radio off. I go first and start rolling and the engine light comes on
and in a second or two goes off and stays off. Nothing else that night.
Monday afternoon I am backing out of the parking lot, weather is fine,
headlights off, climate off, radio off. The engine light comes on, the car
shudders a bit almost like I messed up in manipulating the clutch (but I
hadn't), and then the light goes off. Nothing else since.
Three weeks ago I installed new NGK PFR6J-11's in all six gapped to .040in
and new Magnecor KV85. Two weeks ago, myself and I gutted the precats- front
removed but the rear in the car as everyone said had to be done.
My suspicion is that we hit the oxygen sensor. The bit was about 8in long
from shank to tip, so effectively was only 6 in long, but the drill couldn't
fit completely into the downpipe. I figure only 5in of the bit could get up
in there. We were able to punch through the cat, but how far upstream is the
sensor? I never even saw it.
So, if anybody has some input, please share.
Thank you.

Respectfully,
Zach Sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #636
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