Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, July 28
2001 Volume 01 : Number
560
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Negative Ground
I have several of the factory manuals. In
both the Mitsu and Dodge
manuals, there is a section just for ground
locations near the
beginning of the Electrical volume of the 2-pc manual set
(see the
table of contents). In the '92-96 Mitsu manual it on page 4. In
the
'92 Stealth manual the section starts on page 8-4. There are
diagrams
showing 11 grounding locations.
Jeff "read-the-manual"
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Russell" <
brussell@powercom.net>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Negative
Ground
Yeah, I'm diagnosing using the service manuals, but I may not
know
how to read the electrical diagrams if there's just a symbol for
a
ground. I didn't see any diagrams of the engine bay showing
where
the grounds are, but perhaps I just didn't find the correct part
of
the manuals. Do you happen to know the section/page where
this
diagram is located?
Thanks for your
help,
Brett
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:11:36
-0500
From: "Doug Garrott" <
dgarrott@texas.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Negative Ground
Jeff:
I don't currently have the ground
problem, but I looked at the paper manual
and couldn't find where the
'engine' ground connection was. I looked on the
car, but couldn't
trace past the left end of the engine without getting it
up on a lift.
Could you aim me better to the location in the manual (or try
to educate me
with the diagram that I should have been able to
read)?
Thanks!
Doug G
'93 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:31:23
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: ****1994+ VR4/CARBOTECH PAD UPDATE****
Dear
Friends,
All is well, Andie is sending me new, modified Panther Plus
pads, so I will
get to try out the new compound at Heartland Park.
I
am curious whether any othe 94+ VR4 owner has ever encountered a
fitment
problem with any other aftermarket front pad for the stock brake
calipers. I
can't recall reading about one, so either other manufacturers are
ignoring
the FMSI spec or other owners are filing down the top edge of their
pads.
I didn't do the obvious measurement on my old Stillen pads, but now
that it
occurs to me, I'll see tonight.
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin
[SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:31 AM
>
To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: ****1994+ VR4/CARBOTECH PAD
UPDATE****
>
> Dear Dr. Willis:
>
> Thank you for
posting the update on our "situation", as I've had
> several vendors tell
me they won't purchase our products because of
> this. Like I said,
this was NOT my decision, and I was "following
> orders" as it
were.
>
> Anyhow, I have found through the grapevine that things
around here have
> been like this, and THEY WILL CHANGE, because that is
what _I_ am here
> for.
>
> I have an update for you as
well:
>
> I stopped by the local Mitsubishi dealer this morning on
the way into
> the office at 730am, and here is what I found. The
OEM-Mitsu pad for
> the 1994 VR4 has the top of the pad in the center down
0.267" from the
> top of the backing plate (in the center) - this is an
average
> measurement from 2 sets of pads (i.e. 8 pads). Our CT531
is down
> 0.211" on average on 4 pads (i.e. 1 axle set). You said
that the pad
> was overhanging the rotor by approx. 0.0625", and the
average
> difference between the OEM-Mitsu pad and the Carbotech pad
is
> 0.056"...WHICH IS APPOXIMATELY the 0.0625" that you measured.
So here
> is our "problem"! Now, I double-checked our pads against
FMSI-spec
> (our now "infamous industry spec"), and our pads are actually
well
> within the FMSI-spec.
>
> SO...here is the deal.
FMSI has their spec, we followed it, so our
> pads are "correct".
Now, Mitsubishi has their owm spec, and their pad
> fits the 1994 VR4
properly, and our pads do not. THUS, for the 1994+
> VR4, it appears
that FMSI is in conflict with Mitsubishi; I think the
> reason for this is
that other cars use this pad, and they didn't bother
> to "invent" a new
pad number just for the Mitsubishi, so they are a bit
> off, by the
approximately 0.0625" you mentioned.
>
> Dr. Willis, here is what
_I_ am having done - I already had a long talk
> with our production
manager. We are going to have a custom spec for
> the 1994+ VR4,
which will solve out problem. Everyone else who orders
> CT531 will
get the FMSI spec, because for their car, it will fit
> properly.
But for the 1994+ VR4 people, they will get a 1994 VR4 spec
> CT531, which
will fit their cars properly.
>
> When you have time, drop me a
line and we can talk about this in more
> detail. It appears that
our problem is solved, leaving just the P.R.
> issues on my desk, which I
think you can help me take care of.
>
> I am going to have them
make up a new set of pads for you (again, it
> will have to be at
wholesale - I can only do so much right now - I hope
> you understand, and
can work with me here) to the VR4-spec, send them
> out (we will cover
freight in time for your event), and I want to ask
> that you send back
your "normal CT531" set of pads, and we will fit
> those as well and send
them back to you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andie
> (877)
899-5024
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail:
andiewlin@yahoo.com> vp of
marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e
r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work:
954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed
into F O C U S . . . "
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:35:02
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Negative Ground
When my son and I had the misfortune to
replace his battery cables some
years back on his '93 VR4, I recall having to
get under the car and reach up
into an area with limited visibility on the
back of the engine. I wish I
had a lift - we put the car on
jackstands.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Doug Garrott [SMTP:dgarrott@texas.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:12
AM
> To: Jeff Lucius;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Negative Ground
>
> Jeff:
>
> I
don't currently have the ground problem, but I looked at the paper
>
manual
> and couldn't find where the 'engine' ground connection was.
I looked on
> the
> car, but couldn't trace past the left end
of the engine without getting
> it
> up on a lift. Could you
aim me better to the location in the manual (or
> try
> to educate
me with the diagram that I should have been able to read)?
>
>
Thanks!
>
> Doug G
> '93 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:53:29
-0700
From: "Team3S-Admin" <
Team3S@bobforrest.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Carbotech Engineering and the 3000GT & Stealth Community
Re:
BOUNCE
team3s@team3s.com:
Non-member
submission from ["Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>]
Hey,
Andie,
We appreciate your attempt to reach out to our members, but posts
may only
be made by those who are subscribed to the Team3S list. Rest
assured,
however, that your re-evaluation of the situation with Dr. Willis
has not
gone unnoticed. In fact, since all archives of our past
list
"conversations" are available to the public on our website, both our
members
and countless others will undoubtedly be aware of your efforts.
With our
website receiving close to 200,000 hits per month, it's hard to
determine
just how many 3S owners will read the various emails between all of
us. But
anyone entering "Carbotech" or "Panther Pads" on our Search
Page will have
almost instant access to all that has been said, and that will
be shared on
our list in the future.
I have reproduced your entire
message to Team3S below my signature. We look
forward to the new
comparison measurements between the stock 3000GT
VR4/Stealth RT/TT pads and
the Panther pads. And as a group, we thank you
for taking charge of
this whole situation personally, and for making
yourself available to all 3S
owners. Since you have spoken with Chuck on
the phone and we're finally
all "on the same page", I'm sure we can look
forward to a resolution that
benefits everyone. Now you know that we're not
just a bunch of crazy
doctors - but we *are* a bunch of tech-heads who want
the finest products for
our cars. When it comes to brake pads, we simply
prefer that they fit
without them beveling our rotors.
Thanks for helping us
out!
Regards,
Bob Forrest
Admin, Team3S
www.Team3S.com(Dr. Robert Forrest, D.Sc.,
in real life)
- ----------------------------
{From:}
andie w lin |
e-mail:
andiewlin@yahoo.comvp of
marketing & new product development
- -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r
i n g-
Dear VR4 Community:
Below is my response to Dr.
Clark.
You are absolutely correct: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT - I have
no
argument with this point. I feel we just got off on the wrong
foot,
coupled with the fact that I was directed to send Dr. Willis way as
a
customer; this was not my decision.
I am actually going to stop by a
Mitsubishi dealer with a set of our
pads, and ask for a set of OEM 1994 VR4
pads, and compare the two with
a ruler and caliper. If our pads are, in
fact, different from the OEM
pads (which I am assuming from Dr. Willis'
description in his first
e-mail, will fit well on both the 1993 and the 1994
model year VR4's -
correct me if this is not the case; i.e. if the OEM 1993
pad is
different from the OEM 1994 pad), we will have to come up with
an
OEM-Mitsubishi VR4 variation on this particular pad. I am not
saying
the FMSI is wrong at this time, nor am I saying they are always
100%
correct; this is a moot point, in any case, because "either it fits,
or
it doesn't fit".
If anyone would like to discuss this matter in
private, please feel
free to call me at
877-899-5024.
Sincerely,
Andie W.
Lin
****************************
Dear Dr. Clark:
As I
have explained to Dr. Willis, I was instructed to reply to Dr.
Willis and
"invite" him to purchase Porterfields; this was not my
decision.
As
for the "tone" of my response to Dr. Willis, I found his initial
e-mail to be
very accusational and condescending, to say the least.
If it were my
decision entirely, I would take a set of our pads down to
the Mitsubishi
dealer, and compare the two, and then double-check the
FMSI specifications,
and if necessary, have a "special" spec designed
for the 1994+ VR4.
However, at this time, this is not a
straightforward task.
I
understand and share your regret, and perhaps this situation began on
the
wrong foot. If you would like to discuss this matter futher,
please
feel free to call me at 877-899-5024.
Sincerely,
Andie W.
Lin
=====
andie w lin | e-mail:
andiewlin@yahoo.comvp of marketing
& new product development
- -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n
g-
1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
work: 954.493.9669 | mobile:
734.678.8292
"Bring your speed into F O C U S . . .
"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:22:34
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt" <
KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: Lap Times
Speaking of brake upgrades, has anyone done testing
with an adjustable bias valve at the track?
I am thinking with lowering
and suspension mods we could use much higher rear brake pressures.
From other
cars my gut feel is we could get 15-30% more effective
braking.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From: bdtrent
[mailto:bdtrent@netzero.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:49 PM
To:
Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Re: Lap Times
John,
The last time I
was there, C group was running anywhere from 1:30 to 1:40.
My best time on
street tires and conservative brake use, i.e. holding my
speed on the front
straight to 100mph, was consistently between 131 and 132.
I'm hoping a brake
upgrade will get me into the high 120's. It sure will be
fun
trying. Unless something brakes, I'll be there with Track Time
in
September.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
> Are the C group cars
running 1:30 lap times at
> Putnam??
>
>
> Be of good
cheer,
> John
>
>
> --- bdtrent <
bdtrent@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> Rich,
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, it depends on
how
> > competitive your daughter want's
> > to be. My
first gen brakes with R4S's and slotted
> > Porterfields seem to
work
> > sufficiently at Putnam Park. The Porterfields
>
> havn't warped a bit, and the
> > pads still have a good 50-60%
after 1 weekend. As
> > long as I back out of the
> >
throttle going down the main straight and don't get
> > too agressive
on the
> > rest of the track, fade is not too bad. Needless
to
> > say, this has a
> > detrimental effect on lap
times. Using conservative
> > braking, I'm able to
> >
run lap times with the fast C class drivers. I
> > suspect that
to be
> > competitve in the B class I will need the Big Red
>
> upgrade.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
DaveT/92TT
>
> Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com> '93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
>
12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
>
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:45:24
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Lap Times
There's been a lot of discussion about rear
brake improvements, for example,
you can upgrade the rear brakes on a 1st
generation to 2nd generation two
piston calipers and rotors pretty
inexpensively. However, the consensus was
that since the weight transfers to
the front wheels during hard braking,
efforts to improve rear braking don't
really yield a big payoff.
Jeff Lucius has a big section on brake
upgrades.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Zobel, Kurt [SMTP:KURT.ZOBEL@ca.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:23
AM
> To: bdtrent; Team 3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Lap
Times
>
> Speaking of brake upgrades, has anyone done testing with
an adjustable
> bias valve at the track?
>
> I am thinking
with lowering and suspension mods we could use much higher
> rear brake
pressures.
> From other cars my gut feel is we could get 15-30% more
effective braking.
>
> Kurt
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: bdtrent [mailto:bdtrent@netzero.net]
> Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:49 PM
> To: Team 3S
> Subject: Team3S: Re:
Lap Times
>
>
> John,
>
> The last time I was
there, C group was running anywhere from 1:30 to 1:40.
> My best time on
street tires and conservative brake use, i.e. holding my
> speed on the
front straight to 100mph, was consistently between 131 and
> 132.
>
I'm hoping a brake upgrade will get me into the high 120's. It sure
will
> be
> fun trying. Unless something brakes, I'll be there
with Track Time in
> September.
>
> Regards,
>
DaveT/92TT
>
> > Are the C group cars running 1:30 lap times
at
> > Putnam??
> >
> >
> > Be of good
cheer,
> > John
> >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:14:20
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk !!
I can't believe it, no I can't, I
just can't ... but he did it .....
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPGUnbelieveable
:-))))))
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:18:57
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk !!
> I can't believe it, no I
can't, I just can't ... but he did it .....
>
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPG>
Unbelieveable :-))))))
I just wanna know what kind of 1/4 mile times he
got at the Shootout to see
if all that hacking is worth it or not...
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:32:39
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk !!
But now where will I put my
amplifier, speakers, and spare battery for my
blue lights?
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Gerl (RTEC)
[SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:14 PM
>
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk !!
>
> I can't believe
it, no I can't, I just can't ... but he did it .....
>
>
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPG>
> Unbelieveable :-))))))
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT
TT
>
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:51:53
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 13g Identification
> A true MHI 13G compressor housing
will have the following part
> numbers stamped on it.
> - right-side
(front) number: 49177-00320
> - left-side (rear) number:
49177-00420
Not really correct !! the most important thing is that the
last five digits
start with 00xxx. The last two digits are a revision
number.
Also the 13g are NOT stock on a japanese car. There are engines
around with
the 13G attached as we have onyl few cars here and none of them
already
needed a new engine. Therefore some with EU turbos are still
available from
Japan.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:37:42
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk !!
> > I can't believe it,
no I can't, I just can't ... but he did it .....
> >
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPG>
> Unbelieveable :-))))))
>
> I just wanna know what kind of 1/4
mile times he got at the Shootout to
see
> if all that hacking is worth
it or not...
I doubt he did any runs.
But hey, this is a blower
motor that drives the compressor wheel, but how is
the current controlled to
steadily produce the desired pressure ?? Also
where are the pipes routed
?
Regarding the stereo and sub .... remove the engine in the front ...
LOL
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:50:38
-0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Trunk
Supercharger
I believe that guy was really a nice guy, and has truly
interesting ideas;
and that he did some neat fabrication, and innovative
routing of tubing etc.
BUT having said that--
I am sorry, but to
paraprhase a movie line: "That device was the most
insanely idiotic
thing I have ever seen, and we are all now dumber for
having looked at
it. May God have mercy on his soul."
I was there. There is no
POSSIBLE WAY it will EVER build up ANY pressure.
The airfilter underhood will
BLEED OFF any pressure that MIGHT build up.
The total LACK of ANY seal of the
plastic drainpipe onto the stock MAS
_ALSO_ assures that no pressure will
EVER build up.
I think the supercharger is actually backwards...because
on the stock Ford,
it SUCKS IN from on top and PUTS OUT on the bottom, the
opposite of what it
appears in the car. If you run a roots-type
supercharger, or especially a
Whipple BACKWARDS, it does not work that way
properly.
In summary, it needs a fair amount of refinement.
:)
I want to buy that car, so I can put a regular built-up motor
hidden
underneath it all, and go racing for money down in Chicago. One
could make
A LOT of money with that thing, if it had a killer motor setup
under all the
Rube Goldberg stuff...
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Team3S: Supercharger in a 3S trunk
!!
> I can't believe it, no I can't, I just can't ... but he did it
.....
>
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPG>
Unbelieveable :-))))))
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:11:22
-0500
From: "Christopher Deutsch" <
crdeutsch@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
Here's some more pics (I have higher res
for anyone interested):
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/crdeutsch/Dsm_2_06.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/crdeutsch/Dsm_2_07.jpghttp://people.mn.mediaone.net/crdeutsch/Dsm_2_09.jpgI
like Jack's idea, but personally I wanted to take it up to 88mph to see
if
I'd go back in time ;)
Can't blame the guy for
trying...
Christopher
'94 Silver RT/TT
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 3:50 PM
Subject: Team3S: Trunk
Supercharger
> I believe that guy was really a nice guy, and has
truly interesting ideas;
> and that he did some neat fabrication, and
innovative routing of tubing
etc.
> BUT having said
that--
>
> I am sorry, but to paraprhase a movie line: "That
device was the most
> insanely idiotic thing I have ever seen, and we are
all now dumber for
> having looked at it. May God have mercy on his
soul."
>
> I was there. There is no POSSIBLE WAY it will EVER
build up ANY pressure.
> The airfilter underhood will BLEED OFF any
pressure that MIGHT build up.
> The total LACK of ANY seal of the plastic
drainpipe onto the stock MAS
> _ALSO_ assures that no pressure will EVER
build up.
>
> I think the supercharger is actually
backwards...because on the stock
Ford,
> it SUCKS IN from on top and
PUTS OUT on the bottom, the opposite of what
it
> appears in the
car. If you run a roots-type supercharger, or
especially
a
> Whipple BACKWARDS, it does not work that way
properly.
>
> In summary, it needs a fair amount of
refinement. :)
>
> I want to buy that car, so I can put a
regular built-up motor hidden
> underneath it all, and go racing for money
down in Chicago. One could
make
> A LOT of money with that thing,
if it had a killer motor setup under all
the
> Rube Goldberg
stuff...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Gerl
(RTEC)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> To:
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:14 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Supercharger in a
3S trunk !!
> > I can't believe it, no I can't, I just can't ... but he
did it .....
> >
http://stealthtt.netfirms.com/shootout2001/MVC-643F.JPG>
> Unbelieveable :-))))))
> > Roger
> > 93'3000GT TT
>
>
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:12:52
-0500 (CDT)
From: David Littau <
littau@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
> I think the supercharger is actually
backwards...because on the stock Ford,
> it SUCKS IN from on top and PUTS
OUT on the bottom, the opposite of what it
> appears in the
car. If you run a roots-type supercharger, or especially a
>
Whipple BACKWARDS, it does not work that way properly.
Even if we assume
everthing were connected properly, a supercharger takes
a lot of power to run
at any useful level of boost pressure, and using an
electric motor to run it
would cause an enormous power drain on the engine
if it were used for any
real length of time. The alternator will not put
out enough power to
run the electric motor to get any useful boost, so it
would have to run off
the battery. Then it would take a long time to
recharge the
battery. And this is assuming you could even draw enough
current from
the battery to power the motor... .
There's a good reason superchargers
use engine power (either the
crankshaft or the exhaust heat) to run. It
takes a lot of horsepower to
compress that air.
Back to lurking, hope
to have a TT Stealth soon...
david
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:37:16
-0700
From: Robert Koch <
eK2mfg@foxinternet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
I can't help it I must make a comment
about this.........
My father-in-law is a home heating guy by trade........he
has told me in
the past that when you bend a forced air duct it looses some
efficiency on
every bend...the furthest outlet in your house must be the
straightest. I
think Kudo's for "Orville supercharger" and his invention. I
wont look for
it in my local speed shop for some time but what the
hell.
This reminds me of a highschool buddy who put Harley Davidson
exauhst pipes
on his honda interseptor 500..................dang nobody
liked him not
even the honda guys anymore. What is the obsession with
weedeaters and
hairdryers being used to make our cars perform? should I have
purchased a
riding lawnmower instead of my stealth? I truely believe that my
"spark
plug cover plate" will add more horse power.......anyone want one
that says
"weed-eater" on it.
On Friday, July 27, 2001 2:13 PM, David
Littau [SMTP:littau@cs.umn.edu]
wrote:
> > I think the supercharger
is actually backwards...,
> > it SUCKS
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:38:58
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
> I was there. There is no
POSSIBLE WAY it will EVER build up
> ANY pressure. The airfilter
underhood will BLEED OFF any
> pressure that MIGHT build up. The total
LACK of ANY seal of
> the plastic drainpipe onto the stock MAS _ALSO_
assures that
> no pressure will EVER build up.
Even if through
some miracle (like a total collapse of the laws of fluid
dynamics) some
pressure were to be generated and make it into the airflow
sensor, the Karman
airflow sensor design does not function when air is
pushed through (rather
than being pulled through) so there would be some odd
fueling problems and
drivability issues to be worked out.
Could move the airflow sensor to the
trunk, and pipe all air through the
supercharger (like it is supposed to be)
and seal up the intake properly,
but then drivability is going to be really
crappy.
Supercharger should be under the hood and belt-driven off the
crank like it
traditionally is to prevent the multitude of issues created by
putting it in
the trunk.
I can't figure out what he was thinking with
this design... Just hoping for
the best, I guess... At best it is
the most complicated cold-air induction
system ever designed (and I doubt the
air coming out of the supercharger is
very cool anyway).
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:50:30
-0500
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
You guys have it all wrong.
The reason
the supercharger appears to be mounted upside down is because it
is actually
operating as a Kirby.
Remember the great Kirby discussion of a couple
years ago? The theory was
that a Kirby vacuum cleaner motor used to suck
exhaust out of the engine
would spin the turbos faster and generate more
boost.
This system actually attaches to the exhaust. You just can't see
it because
it's a stealth system (sorry about
that).
Rich>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:00:54
+0200
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
> This system actually attaches to the
exhaust. You just can't see it
because
> it's a stealth system (sorry
about that).
But what is then the piping in the engine compartement for
???
Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:00:59
-0500 (CDT)
From: David Littau <
littau@cs.umn.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
You have to be kidding. At least, I hope
you are... .
On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Merritt wrote:
> You guys
have it all wrong.
> The reason the supercharger appears to be mounted
upside down is because it
> is actually operating as a Kirby.
>
> Remember the great Kirby discussion of a couple years ago? The theory
was
> that a Kirby vacuum cleaner motor used to suck exhaust out of the
engine
> would spin the turbos faster and generate more boost.
>
> This system actually attaches to the exhaust. You just can't see it
because
> it's a stealth system (sorry about that).
>
>
Rich>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:06:29
-0400
From: "Alan Sheffield" <
a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
I spoke to the guy that did this. What he is
attempting to do is use the
supercharger to pre-spool(?) the
turbos.
He admitted that it was a work in progress I cant' comment on the
techinical
merrits of this system. But, I think a pre-spooler is a good
Idea.
Alan
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:41:25
-0700
From: "pops" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Fw: Team3S:
Trunk Supercharger
- ----- Original Message -----
From: pops
To:
David Littau ;
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trunk
Supercharger
Hmmmmm ---- assuming it's hooked up correctly the best
he could hope for is cold air
at the MAS. Cold air at the MAS is a good
thing but methinks his concept is a tad bit
of
overkill.
Jim Berry
PS: I agree with some
of Jacks assessment --- while maybe not the holy grail we've
been
looking for it's interesting
to see somebody coloring outside the
lines.
Jim
Berry
===============================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: David Littau
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trunk
Supercharger
> I think the supercharger is actually
backwards...because on the stock Ford,
> it SUCKS IN from on top and PUTS
OUT on the bottom, the opposite of what it
> appears in the
car. If you run a roots-type supercharger, or especially a
>
Whipple BACKWARDS, it does not work that way properly.
Even if we assume
everthing were connected properly, a supercharger takes
a lot of power to run
at any useful level of boost pressure, and using an
electric motor to run it
would cause an enormous power drain on the engine
if it were used for any
real length of time. The alternator will not put
out enough power to
run the electric motor to get any useful boost, so it
would have to run off
the battery. Then it would take a long time to
recharge the
battery. And this is assuming you could even draw enough
current from
the battery to power the motor... .
There's a good reason superchargers
use engine power (either the
crankshaft or the exhaust heat) to run. It
takes a lot of horsepower to
compress that air.
Back to lurking, hope
to have a TT Stealth soon...
david
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:21:49
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Trunk Supercharger
> I spoke to the guy that did this.
What he is attempting to do
> is use the supercharger to pre-spool(?) the
turbos.
It would be vastly simpler to put a fuel injector in each exhaust
manifold
and ignite it to spin the turbos. Or use something to retard
the timing so
far that unburned fuel makes its way into the manifolds
resulting in the
same effect. The rally car guys do it all the
time...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:18:28
-0700
From: "Kai Langendoen" <
kail@colubs.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Transfer Case Question
Jim-
Thanks for the great info. I
appreciate you resending it since it didn't
make the list.
My current
situation: I haven't done anything. Since I just put new
Redline
in the transfer case, there really is no need to fool with it
right
now. That is trusting that the proper amount of fluid is in there
(I
originally overfilled, and it vented out, causing me to want and check
the
level by removing the plug again). So far the plug hasn't shown any
sign of
leakage, as in your situation. Theoretically, I am good for
many miles, so
long as no leaks develop.
I considered getting a vise
grip on there, but the risk of metal filings is
holding me back, especially
given the fact that it is displaying no signs of
needing immediate
repair.
I am confused. Why did you tap out the hole to 3/4"?
Was it not adequate
to simply clean out the hole and put a new OEM plug
in?
Unfortunately, there is far less working room around the transfer
case than
the transaxle. As someone else pointed out, I would probably
have to remove
the transfer case if I really wanted to work on
it.
Since your situation was basically the same as mine, and your plug
didn't
leak either, I am a little more confident in my decision. Let me
know if
you have opinions on this.
Enjoy your
vacation.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: pops
[mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:17
AM
To: Kai Langendoen
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer Case
Question
Kai
I tried to send the following message
via the team3S board but for some
reason it never
showed up --- at
least on my computer. I'm resending it to you directly
hoping you'll
get
the info.
Jim berry
=======================================================
I
missed the beginning of this thread ---- I'm on vacation ---- I had the
same
problem on
my transmission [ 93 TT, 5 speed ]. The drain plug just
spun in the hole,
It didn't leak it
just wouldn't come out. I
grabbed the hex head with a large vice grip and
pulled and turned
as Chuck advised ---- worked like a charm ---- however the transmission
bolt
is easy to
access once you remove the wheel and splash panel, I'm not
sure about
access to the
transfer case bolt.
The next
issue is repairing the stripped threads --- In the case of the
transmission
bolt,
I used a 3/4" drain plug bolt and washer in place of the
slightly smaller
17mm stock plug.
I tapped the 17mm to 3/4 without
drilling out the hole, I just ran the
larger tap into the
stripped
hole while pouring automatic transmission fluid into the trans to
flush out
any
metal particles produced from the tapping operation. The next
problem was
the metal
washer that is used as a seal ---- the 3/4"
washer wouldn't fit in the
recess that was made
to accept the 17mm
washer so I had to use a grinder/file to reduce the
diameter of the
washer until it would fit. You might be able to find a fiber washer that
fits
--- I checked
a bunch of different plumbing washers without any luck
and lust got tired
of looking for the
right size. When installing
the new bolt use the minimum amount of force
necessary to
prevent
leaking ---- the new threads are not as complete as the originals.
If you have any questions just email me ---- I'm picking up my email
every
few days.
Jim Berry
=============================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles
E.
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S:
More Transer Case Issues
Kai,
With vise grips you may be able to apply back
pressure while turning and
get
the plug to latch onto
one of the remaining threads. That's what I
would
try. If you didn't replace the washer/seal, you may be past the
threads
on
the case - the washer is pretty thick (like
1/16 ").
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:45:59
-0500
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Wheel Weight
Has anyone accurately weighed any of the stock 3S
wheels with or without
tires? Along the same lines, has anyone ever
noticed any appreciable
difference between wheels? I've noticed Tire
Rack offers a competition
wheel for our cars that weighs in at a claimed
19lbs. for the 18 x 9's.
They don't look as robust as some wheels. This
could be an issue on our
somewhat gravity challanged cars at the
track.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:03:23
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Wheel Weight
The stock 17x8.5 wheels for my 1992 Stealth TT
weigh 29lbs each
(after powdercoating). I replaced them with SSR GT1 forged
wheels
which weigh 20 lbs each. The Nitto NT-555 P245/45ZR17 tires weigh
28
lbs each. I replaced them with Pirelli P ZEro Rosso
Asimmetrico
265/35ZR18 tires that weigh 26 lbs each. Savings were 11 pounds
per
set (weighed on my bathroom scales). The SSR/Pirelli combo
just
survived 3800 miles (to DSM shootout and back) of high speed
driving
on the sometimes crappy road called I-70 and the many roads near
it.
Bone jarring excurions through pot holes and other road hazards
did
not damage the wheels. The wheels did suffer some scratches on
the
finsish from small rocks flying around.
The "wheel weight page"
has some good info on it.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cvlocas/wheels.htmlJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "bdtrent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
To: "Team 3S"
<
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: Team3S: Wheel Weight
Has anyone
accurately weighed any of the stock 3S wheels with or
without tires?
Along the same lines, has anyone ever noticed any
appreciable difference
between wheels? I've noticed Tire Rack offers
a competition wheel for
our cars that weighs in at a claimed 19lbs.
for the 18 x 9's. They don't look
as robust as some wheels. This
could be an issue on our somewhat
gravity challanged cars at
the
track.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:44:30
-0700
From: "pops" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Transfer Case Question
Kai
When the drain plug spun it completely
removed the aluminun threads ---- the only option
was a heila-coil [ sp ] or
my oversize tap.
In my case I had just purchased the car with 36K miles on it
and I wanted to change the
fluids to establish a maintaince baseline. In your
case you could go years before you
need to worry about it --- I sure wouldn't
mess with it unless I had to.
Jim Berry
========================================================
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Kai Langendoen
To: pops
Cc:
team3S
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer
Case Question
Jim-
Thanks for the great info. I
appreciate you resending it since it didn't
make the list.
My current
situation: I haven't done anything. Since I just put new
Redline
in the transfer case, there really is no need to fool with it
right
now. That is trusting that the proper amount of fluid is in there
(I
originally overfilled, and it vented out, causing me to want and check
the
level by removing the plug again). So far the plug hasn't shown any
sign of
leakage, as in your situation. Theoretically, I am good for
many miles, so
long as no leaks develop.
I considered getting a vise
grip on there, but the risk of metal filings is
holding me back, especially
given the fact that it is displaying no signs of
needing immediate
repair.
I am confused. Why did you tap out the hole to 3/4"?
Was it not adequate
to simply clean out the hole and put a new OEM plug
in?
Unfortunately, there is far less working room around the transfer
case than
the transaxle. As someone else pointed out, I would probably
have to remove
the transfer case if I really wanted to work on
it.
Since your situation was basically the same as mine, and your plug
didn't
leak either, I am a little more confident in my decision. Let me
know if
you have opinions on this.
Enjoy your
vacation.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: pops
[mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:17
AM
To: Kai Langendoen
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer Case
Question
Kai
I tried to send the following message via
the team3S board but for some
reason it never
showed up --- at
least on my computer. I'm resending it to you directly
hoping you'll
get
the info.
Jim berry
=======================================================
I missed
the beginning of this thread ---- I'm on vacation ---- I had the
same problem
on
my transmission [ 93 TT, 5 speed ]. The drain plug just spun in the
hole,
It didn't leak it
just wouldn't come out. I grabbed the hex
head with a large vice grip and
pulled and turned
as Chuck advised
---- worked like a charm ---- however the transmission
bolt is easy
to
access once you remove the wheel and splash panel, I'm not sure
about
access to the
transfer case bolt.
The next issue is
repairing the stripped threads --- In the case of the
transmission
bolt,
I used a 3/4" drain plug bolt and washer in place of the
slightly smaller
17mm stock plug.
I tapped the 17mm to 3/4 without
drilling out the hole, I just ran the
larger tap into the
stripped
hole while pouring automatic transmission fluid into the trans to
flush out
any
metal particles produced from the tapping operation. The next
problem was
the metal
washer that is used as a seal ---- the 3/4"
washer wouldn't fit in the
recess that was made
to accept the 17mm
washer so I had to use a grinder/file to reduce the
diameter of the
washer until it would fit. You might be able to find a fiber washer that
fits
--- I checked
a bunch of different plumbing washers without any luck
and lust got tired
of looking for the
right size. When installing
the new bolt use the minimum amount of force
necessary to
prevent
leaking ---- the new threads are not as complete as the originals.
If you have any questions just email me ---- I'm picking up my email
every
few days.
Jim Berry
=============================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: Willis, Charles
E.
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S:
More Transer Case Issues
Kai,
With vise grips you may be able to apply back
pressure while turning and
get
the plug to latch onto
one of the remaining threads. That's what I
would
try. If you didn't replace the washer/seal, you may be past the
threads
on
the case - the washer is pretty thick (like
1/16 ").
Chuck
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:08:33
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Rewire Fuel Pump
The battery in my car has been moved to the
rear. The battery is
literally within a foot of the fuel pump
now. I have heard talk about
running heavier gauge wire to the fuel
pump to provide better voltage
for increased flow/reliability.
Question: The fuel pump appears to
have 4 wires coming from it.
What are the different wires, and what
would be the best way to wire
this. I was thinking some sort of fuel
cutoff switch externally mounted
(as required by certain organizations
for rear mounted batteries), as well as
a Cutoff switch inside the car
(for anti-theft purposes). I am thinking
some sort of high-amperage
relay in the rear above the fuel pump, but I want
it controlled by the
car as to when its on/off mainly, just having the
external and internal
cutoffs also.
What would be the best
way???
- -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:43:48
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rewire Fuel Pump
Cody,
When you remove the pump assembly
the wiring becomes obvious.
For my '92 TT
assembly:
Black/red =
ground
Black = ground on pump assembly
frame
Black/blue = power to pump (pump is grounded to assembly
frame)
Yellow = fuel gauge
Yellow/blue = low
fuel warning light
The Stock pump probably only draws maybe 8 to 10 amps.
The "Supra"
pump draws 16-18 amps, making it even more important to
"re-wire".
The Walbro pumps draw similar to the stock pump. FWIW, my TMO
datalog
for the battery reads about 13.5 V at cruise and 13.0 V at WOT.
We
can probably subtract 0.5 to 1.5 volts from these for the value at
the
pump.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "cody" <
overclck@starband.net>
To: <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
"'Starnet'" <
stealth@stls.verio.net>
Sent:
Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:08 AM
Subject: Team3S: Rewire Fuel
Pump
The battery in my car has been moved to the rear. The
battery is
literally within a foot of the fuel pump now. I have heard
talk
about
running heavier gauge wire to the fuel pump to provide better
voltage
for increased flow/reliability. Question: The fuel pump
appears to
have 4 wires coming from it. What are the different wires,
and what
would be the best way to wire this. I was thinking some sort
of fuel
cutoff switch externally mounted (as required by
certain
organizations
for rear mounted batteries), as well as a Cutoff
switch inside the
car
(for anti-theft purposes). I am thinking some
sort of high-amperage
relay in the rear above the fuel pump, but I want it
controlled by
the
car as to when its on/off mainly, just having the
external and
internal cutoffs also.
What would be the best
way???
- -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#560
***************************************
