Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Friday, July 27 2001     Volume 01 : Number 559




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:56:12 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: FW: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4

more about wrong sized front pads ...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> To: 'Andie W. Lin'
> Cc: 'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4
>
> 1.  You are not the fellow named Pete from your company that I had a
> conference call with this morning, but I see Pete's name below, so I must
> assume he gave you my email address and discussed this matter with you.
> 2.  My name is "Willis" not "Williams", as you could see from the email
> address.
> 3.  This is different from my conversation with Pete this morning:  I was
> preparing to chamfer the edge of my current set of pads and await arrival
> of a new corrected set of pads by Aug 8 to support my next track event.
> 4.  I'd be delighted to send you back the old pads, but I'd like to have
> some new pads to replace them with first.
> 5.  It's nice to know that your inventory of pads meets FMSI
> specifications.  However, if they are the same dimensions as the three
> previous sets of pads that I have, then I will still have a problem.
> 6.  We are not talking about "squeaking", we are talking about excess pad
> material overhanging the edge of the rotor.  In effect, your pad is
> beveling the edge of my brand new rotors.
> 7.  Although your offer of a new set of pads at wholesale price is quite
> generous, it is of little value since you are giving me no indication that
> the dimensions of these pads will be any different from the three sets I
> already have in my possession.
>
> Mitsubishi changed the front rotor diameter (from 11 1/2" real diameter to
> 12 1/4") from 1993 to 1994 and extended the mounting arms on the front
> caliper to accommodate it. You are correct that Mitsubishi did not change
> the front pads in any way.  Your pad dimensions are different from the
> stock Mitsubishi pads.  Maybe it would be more productive for you to go to
> your local Mitsu dealer and purchase a set of pads for comparison, and
> make your product conform to their dimensions, FMSI specifications
> notwithstanding.
>
> I have been delighted with the Panther pad compound up until now.  I even
> sent you stock rear pad backers and paid y'all extra to custom build
> Panther rear pads for my '94 in order to remain with your product.  I
> think I have been more than understanding and reasonable in dealing with
> this problem.
>
> How about I just order some Porterfield R4 or R4S pads, and send you back
> the Panther pads when I get them off the car so you can examine them at
> your leisure?
>
> Chuck Willis
>     
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:26 AM
> To: cewillis@texaschildrenshospital.org
> Subject:
>
> Dear Mr. Williams:
>
> After speaking with Ali about your pad/rotor interface and the
> resulting squeaking of the pad, we would like to send you another set
> of Panther pads directly at the wholesale price of $99.  Further, we
> would like to ask that you send back your current set of pads so that
> we can determine if they need replacing or repairing, and if so, such
> will be performed at no cost to you, except for shipping.
>
> Carbotech will send the new set of pads to you for $99; we will cover
> the shipping on the new set of pads.
>
> We have examined our inventory of VR4 pads, and they are all assembled
> to FMSI specifications.  It appears that Mitsubishi changed several
> dimensions in their brake hardware setup from 1993 to 1994, but kept
> the pad specification the same.  In any case, again, we would like to
> take the time to examine your current set of pads. 
>
> Please send them to:
>
> CARBOTECH ENGINEERING
> ATTN: PETE OR ANDIE
> 1100 NW 53RD STREET
> FORT LAUDERDALE, FL 33309
> (954) 493-9669
>
> Please call us as soon as possible with payment information for the new
> set of pads.  Once again, if we determine that your current set of pads
> require repairing or replacing, such will be done so free of charge.
>
> Thank you,
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:59:24 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: FW: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4

last in the thread - editor's note - Ali at Jamn Motorsports did everything
possible to try to correct this problem, including arranging a
teleconference this morning.  this moron, Andie Lim, got involved post
teleconference.  I understand from Ali, that the owner of Carbotech is
currently out of the country, so there's always the possibility of him
returning and rectifying the situation.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:50 PM
> To: 'Andie W. Lin'
> Cc: 'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4
>
> Andie,
>
> So Mitsubishi pads work on Mitubishi cars, but your pads, made to exacting
> industry standards, do not, so Mitsubish should redesign their pads so
> that they don't work on their cars either?
>
> It's hard to believe you haven't run into this problem before: maybe
> no-one with a second generation VR4 ever wanted to go through the trouble
> I went through to get custom rear pads.
>
> Taking into consideration the nature of your response, I'm sure you won't
> mind me sharing our dialog with the membership of 3Si, Club DSM, and
> speedtoys, who have been listening to me tell them how great your product
> was for the last two years.
>
> Sincerely,
> Chuck Willis
> Your former customer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:13 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: 'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4
>
> > How about I just order some Porterfield R4 or R4S pads, and send you
> > back the Panther pads when I get them off the car so you can examine
> > them at your leisure?
>
> Dear Mr. Willis:
>
> Thank you for your prompt response to my e-mail. 
>
> Carbotech Engineering brake products are made to exacting FMSI
> Specifications which are INDUSTRY STANDARDS, as you probably already
> know.  As our products are made to industry approved standards and
> specifications, it seems that Mitsubishi needs to redesign their OEM
> pads to conform to the same specifications, and not vice-versa. 
>
> Taking into consideration the nature of your response, it appears that
> we will not be able to satisfy your demands for Mitsubishi-spec brake
> pads.  Please feel free to call Porterfield and order a set of their
> "Mitsubishi-spec" R4/R4S pads; please return your used set of Panther
> pads if you would like us to inspect them "at our leisure".
>
> Sincerely,
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:56:32 -0700
From: "Maupin, Justin" <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance

Jeff,

I have some confusion based on your comment that:
"This is why the many comments about K&N filters flowing more air than stock
are so silly!"

I recently came across the K&N demonstrator at a local shop and was amazed
at the increased flow rate of the K&N filter as compared to other notable
brands.
Based on my own observations perhaps you can understand my confusion on your
statement. I am not saying that you are in error... just looking for
clarification and understanding on this subject.

In addition to the demonstrator I also experienced a similar reaction when
replacing the stock air filter in my wife's Mustang-GT.  The addition of the
K&N provided at the very least an above average throttle response.  My
hypothosis to this is of course is an increased airflow thru the air intake.
Of course the reaction could be due to a clean filter as opposed to the used
part the was originally in.

Just a questioning analytical mind, hope I didn't offend.

Justin
92 Green RT/TT
FIPK Clone
Porterfield Rotors
Autometer Boost Gauge


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:22:14 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to develop y our market"

Mr. Lin,

It seems that I haven't cornered the market on selfishness, egotism, and
arrogance.

You can be sure I will share your latest diatribe (word for word) with the
rest of my owner community.  There is nothing duplicious about this: your
product worked fine on my 1st generation VR4, the deviation of your product
from the manufacturer's was not a problem until applied to a 2nd generation
VR4.

Funny thing is I DID discuss this problem directly with Pete of your company
this morning.  The conversation seemed very calm to me and I felt the
problem was to be resolved.

I am delighted that you have finally identified yourself as VP of marketing
and new product development.  Maybe you should concentrate on OLD PRODUCT
IMPROVEMENT.

By the way, I hope you share our dialog with your CEO when he returns.

Maybe if you re-read this message, you will finally get my name right.

Charles E. Willis
former Panther Pad Customer
(and by INDUSTRY STANDARDS, "it's Dr. Willis, Mr. Lin)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:53 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4
>
> Mr. Williams:
>
> You are free to say whatever it is you want to, to whomever you choose,
> that is your right. 
>
> To answer your question, we have thousands of customers worldwide, and
> at times, mistakes are made, to be sure.  We stand behind our product
> 100%, and have fixed any errors which have been made on our part.
> However, in your situation, the variable is not our pad, but the fact
> that Mitsubishi changed the caliper mounting bracket, which moves the
> caliper and thus the brake pad further from the axle in order to fit
> over the larger rotor, as you said yourself.  If our pads will work/fit
> properly on a 1993 VR4, but will not, as you claim, on a 1994 VR4, then
> it is not our pads which have a problem, as we have not programed our
> pads to change shape when switched from one model year car to another
> model year car.
>
> Once again, if you feel it necessary to tell your friends, buddies, and
> relatives that you now think our product is not "up to snuff", after
> telling them for the past two years that it is a wonderful product,
> then the choice to be duplicitous is yours entirely.  If you also find
> it necessary to keep others from enjoying what you have clearly stated
> is a great product, then the choice to be selfish, egotistical and
> self-serving is also, once again, entirely yours. 
>
> I will contend that Carbotech Engineering has provided you with a
> quality product which conforms to INDUSTRY STANDARDS - and I hope you
> understand what the term "industry standards" means - and if they,
> after two years of performing well, no longer perform to your
> satisfaction, then you are free to choose another product from another
> manufacturer.  It is your right to shop around, as we live in a country
> of free-choice consumerism. 
>
> Please feel free to post my e-mails to you, word for word, on your
> various web forums.  I am certain that your colleagues will agree that
> the nature of your accusations and your overall attitude are not only
> childish, but entirely uncalled for.
>
> Charles, if you had called us directly and explained in a calm manner
> the issue at hand, we would have been more than happy to work through
> or around your claimed difficulties together, as a team.  However, we
> find your arrogance and attitude entirely unacceptable, and feel that
> you will be best served by following your own suggestion of going to
> Porterfield, as our FMSI industry specifications are, clearly, not
> acceptable to your high standards.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:37:52 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <anthonymelillo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Red Headlights from 1997 VR-4 for sale

Well, my current financial situation has made it clear that I need to sell
the old headlights from my 1997 3000GT VR-4.  When I had the car painted,
they were replaced with metallic black ones, and I was going to paint the
red ones, but couldn't figure out how to open them up, and it really wasn't
worth the trouble.

Now that I have a better idea what they are worth, I thought I would give
list members first shot before I had to put them on eBay.

Email me separately if interested.
Anthony Melillo
anthonymelillo@home.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:43:07 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car won't start...

The very first thing to do is take off the battery terminals, clean them,
and make sure they are on reasonably tight.

The next thing to do is look at the starter end of the positive cable, and
make sure that is clean and tight.

Next thing is to put a charger on the battery overnight and see if this
charges the battery enough to start the car. If it does then the battery
could be bad, or the alternator, or the regulator.

Next thing to do is use jumper cables to a car with a known good battery and
see if it will start with the cables.

If it does then your alternator or battery or voltage regulator is probably
bad. Taking the battery out is not too hard so I would start, if you get to
this point, by taking the battery to an auto parts store and having it
checked, or by trying to fully charge it and then trying to use it to start
another car.

On the possitive side, almost all starting problems are the result of bad
battery connections. Lets hope yours is part of the majority and not the
minority.

Andy


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:53:12 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: bad customer relations

Dear Mr. Lin:  I have followed the email between you and Dr. Willis.
Regardless of who is correct in your discussions, it is apparent to me that
your company lacks direction with regard to customer relations. Dr. Willis
happens to be a regular contributor to our forum and has provided a great
deal of meaningful and useful information to those of us who populate the
Stealth./3000gt list. Suffice it to say that you would have been far better
off to have worked with him on the basis that THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
Given the attitude that underlies your email I can honestly say that even if
I thought Panther pads would work on my car, I would not use them. This
decision is made solely on your email and its obvious implication that while
you say you stand behind your product, you do not, in fact, actually do
anything to accomplish that goal. Instead, you invite the custormer to
leave. Enough said - I am not leaving. I simply will not even be visiting.

Andy Woll
awoll1@pacbell.net


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:04:45 -0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Panther pad dimensions wrong for '94 VR4 or "How  to develop y our market"

Mr. Lin,

Great customer service. You will really increase your business by
sending anyone with a concern to the competition.
In my capacity as a Purchasing agent you can be sure Suppliers with
your attitude are removed from our quoting list - immediately.

Jim Floyd


- -----Original Message------------------------------------------------------
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:22 PM
To: 'Andie W. Lin'
Cc: '3sracers@speedtoys.com'; 'Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st'; 'Ali Naimi'
Subject: Team3S: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to
develop y our market"


Mr. Lin,

It seems that I haven't cornered the market on selfishness, egotism, and
arrogance.

You can be sure I will share your latest diatribe (word for word) with the
rest of my owner community.  There is nothing duplicious about this: your
product worked fine on my 1st generation VR4, the deviation of your product
from the manufacturer's was not a problem until applied to a 2nd generation
VR4.

Funny thing is I DID discuss this problem directly with Pete of your company
this morning.  The conversation seemed very calm to me and I felt the
problem was to be resolved.

I am delighted that you have finally identified yourself as VP of marketing
and new product development.  Maybe you should concentrate on OLD PRODUCT
IMPROVEMENT.

By the way, I hope you share our dialog with your CEO when he returns.

Maybe if you re-read this message, you will finally get my name right.

Charles E. Willis
former Panther Pad Customer
(and by INDUSTRY STANDARDS, "it's Dr. Willis, Mr. Lin)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:53 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4
>
> Mr. Williams:
>
> You are free to say whatever it is you want to, to whomever you choose,
> that is your right. 
>
> To answer your question, we have thousands of customers worldwide, and
> at times, mistakes are made, to be sure.  We stand behind our product
> 100%, and have fixed any errors which have been made on our part.
> However, in your situation, the variable is not our pad, but the fact
> that Mitsubishi changed the caliper mounting bracket, which moves the
> caliper and thus the brake pad further from the axle in order to fit
> over the larger rotor, as you said yourself.  If our pads will work/fit
> properly on a 1993 VR4, but will not, as you claim, on a 1994 VR4, then
> it is not our pads which have a problem, as we have not programed our
> pads to change shape when switched from one model year car to another
> model year car.
>
> Once again, if you feel it necessary to tell your friends, buddies, and
> relatives that you now think our product is not "up to snuff", after
> telling them for the past two years that it is a wonderful product,
> then the choice to be duplicitous is yours entirely.  If you also find
> it necessary to keep others from enjoying what you have clearly stated
> is a great product, then the choice to be selfish, egotistical and
> self-serving is also, once again, entirely yours. 
>
> I will contend that Carbotech Engineering has provided you with a
> quality product which conforms to INDUSTRY STANDARDS - and I hope you
> understand what the term "industry standards" means - and if they,
> after two years of performing well, no longer perform to your
> satisfaction, then you are free to choose another product from another
> manufacturer.  It is your right to shop around, as we live in a country
> of free-choice consumerism. 
>
> Please feel free to post my e-mails to you, word for word, on your
> various web forums.  I am certain that your colleagues will agree that
> the nature of your accusations and your overall attitude are not only
> childish, but entirely uncalled for.
>
> Charles, if you had called us directly and explained in a calm manner
> the issue at hand, we would have been more than happy to work through
> or around your claimed difficulties together, as a team.  However, we
> find your arrogance and attitude entirely unacceptable, and feel that
> you will be best served by following your own suggestion of going to
> Porterfield, as our FMSI industry specifications are, clearly, not
> acceptable to your high standards.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:18:39 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: FW: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to develop y our market"

Mr. Lim made some constructive suggestions and I will take him up on his
offer to speak with the CEO on Monday.  Thank you all for your continued
solidarity!

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:09 PM
> To: 'Andie W. Lin'
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to
> develop y  our market"
>
> Mr. Lim,
>
> Thanks for your apology, I'm sure you meant no disrespect about the title
> or last name.  Let's forget the titles.  I'm just a customer, and an
> enthusiast, and a high speed driving instructor who has contact with about
> 200 other drivers every couple of months and has about 30 driving students
> per year.
>
> Thank you also for the recommendation of what you consider a comparable
> product.  My son's experience with PAGID pads has been good on the track
> but poor on the street.  Our previous track experience with Carbon Kevlar
> pads was not good, certainly the R4S is not comparable, but other owners
> are doing well with both the R4's the R4E's.  There is another segment of
> our community that swears by Hawk Blue pads.
>
> There is wide variation in the style of driving and braking.  I found an
> appropriate combination of pad and rotor that worked well for me, which is
> why I went to such lengths to reproduce that combination for my 2nd
> generation car.
>
> My hesitance about your offer was based on several issues:
>
> 1.  A new set of pads if unmodified would not solve the problem, even
> temporarily.
> 2.  I've already incurred the inconvenience of installing and
> troubleshooting the current set of pads and improper rotor wear.
> 3.  Your offer to sell the replacement set to me at wholesale limits your
> cost to that of shipping pads between Houston and Florida.
> 4.  I have a limited amount of time to make this car trackworthy,
> basically two weekends.
>
> This just struck me as unfair, especially considering the fact that I
> identified the problem for you and have been trying my darndest to stay
> with your product (remember the custom rear pads?).
>
> Thanks again for your suggestions!
>
> Chuck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 4:30 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to
> develop y  our market"
>
> Dr. Willis:
>
> I did not address you as "Dr. Willis" previously because there was no
> indication in your signature file that you were a physician.  I
> apologize for this seeming disrespect.
>
> My intention was/is to rectify this situation, but was instructed
> otherwise.  In order for use to move the pad material down on the
> backing plate, which would not be within spec incidentally, we would
> have to shave the top edge of the pad material, and thus the end result
> would be less pad surface area, albeit by a small percentage.  Our
> original plan was to send you a set of new Panther pads at wholesale,
> and then to examine and fix or replace the set that you appear to have
> problems with.  However, after receiving your first e-mail, I was
> instructed not to do so.
>
> While Porterfield makes a quality product, I fear you will find that
> the R4 and/or R4S will not provide you with the stopping power of our
> Panther compound, unfortunately.  If you are set on switching
> compounds, I would have to recommend a Pagid 4-2-1 or Pagid 4-4, or a
> set of PFC 93's, which would be a more accurate comparison to our
> Panther and Panther Plus compounds.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:26:27 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to develop y our market"

alleluia!

Andie, you are allright!  And if you don't find a dimensional difference,
please share your results, because either I'm smokin'  something other than
brake pads, or I've got a garage full of weird brake pads!

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:08 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: '3sracers@speedtoys.com'; 'Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st'; 'Ali Naimi'
> Subject: RE: PAnther pad dimensions worng for '94 VR4 or "How to
> develop y our market"
>
> Dear VR4 Community:
>
> Below is my response to Dr. Clark. 
>
> You are absolutely correct: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT - I have no
> argument with this point.  I feel we just got off on the wrong foot,
> coupled with the fact that I was directed to send Dr. Willis way as a
> customer; this was not my decision.
>
> I am actually going to stop by a Mitsubishi dealer with a set of our
> pads, and ask for a set of OEM 1994 VR4 pads, and compare the two with
> a ruler and caliper.  If our pads are, in fact, different from the OEM
> pads (which I am assuming from Dr. Willis' description in his first
> e-mail, will fit well on both the 1993 and the 1994 model year VR4's -
> correct me if this is not the case; i.e. if the OEM 1993 pad is
> different from the OEM 1994 pad), we will have to come up with an
> OEM-Mitsubishi VR4 variation on this particular pad.  I am not saying
> the FMSI is wrong at this time, nor am I saying they are always 100%
> correct; this is a moot point, in any case, because "either it fits, or
> it doesn't fit".
>
> If anyone would like to discuss this matter in private, please feel
> free to call me at 877-899-5024.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Andie W. Lin
>
> ****************************
>
> Dear Dr. Clark:
>
> As I have explained to Dr. Willis, I was instructed to reply to Dr.
> Willis and "invite" him to purchase Porterfields; this was not my
> decision.
>
> As for the "tone" of my response to Dr. Willis, I found his initial
> e-mail to be very accusational and condescending, to say the least.
>
> If it were my decision entirely, I would take a set of our pads down to
> the Mitsubishi dealer, and compare the two, and then double-check the
> FMSI specifications, and if necessary, have a "special" spec designed
> for the 1994+ VR4.  However, at this time, this is not a
> straightforward task.
>
> I understand and share your regret, and perhaps this situation began on
> the wrong foot.  If you would like to discuss this matter futher,
> please feel free to call me at 877-899-5024.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Andie W. Lin
>
>
> =====
> andie w lin | e-mail: andiewlin@yahoo.com
> vp of marketing & new product development
> -c a r b o t e c h e n g i n e e r i n g-
> 1100 NW 53rd St | Ft Lauderdale, FL 33309
> work: 954.493.9669 | mobile: 734.678.8292
>
> "Bring your speed into  F O C U S . . . "

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:18:20 -0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: Front strut tower bar - special offer - no group buy necessary

 3/S owners,

        We have an opportunity to get a front strut tower bar for
our cars, 3000GT, SL or VR4 - 1st or 2nd generation. One of our car owners,
Chris Thorne in PA, is going to make a limited number of these immediately.

Because enough of us sent in deposit checks Chris was able
to get a good buy on raw material and the price has been reduced.

A group buy is not necessary now. Prices are reduced by more than 25%.
First come, first serve, until this first material buy runs out ! !
Those who have signed up and sent their checks are first in line.
Those who have signed up, but have not sent their checks are next
assuming Chris receives your checks before 6Aug01.

The rest of you will want to hurry and take advantage of this one time
opportunity.
Man, I sound like a used car salesman.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
 
The configurations are listed below:

- - Black Chrome finish (mirror finish powder coated paint) with a
battery hold down(also black chrome finish)is now $260.00.

Paint colors other than the black chrome finish that will be available at no
extra charge.
 * Azure Blue
 * Dark Blue
 * Crimson Red
 * Black
 * Wet White
 * Buttercup
Colors that are not stock are available for an extra $50.00.
If at least 5 people sign up for the same special color then there is no
extra charge.

- - The strut tower bar painted with the black chrome finish or stock paint
without
the battery hold down is $250.00.
- - The strut tower bar only in raw aluminum, without paint or a hold down is
still $250.00

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

This bar is CNC machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum and uses a solid
brace
of .625 inches x 1.5 inches that connects to the two mounts.
A picture of the prototype bar can be seen at:

http://pws.ihpc.net/erikgross/3000GT/FrontStrutTowerBar/FrontStrutTowerBar.h
tml
        THE ADDRESS ABOVE MUST ALL BE ON ONE LINE.
If it isn't, then  copy it to your browser as one line.
       
        The prototype you see in the pictures will be strengthened
at the bend angles with "bridges" to eliminate any possibility of flexing.
Chris can be contacted at NETM1NDER@aol.com if you have technical questions.
        I am doing the administration of this buy because Chris
works 60 hours a week and I want to help him get this off the ground so I
can have a strut bar.
   

        A battery hold down is required because the stock battery
and stock battery hold down can not be used due to clearance.
        A battery like the Optima or one with dimensions of  H =
6.75  x  W = 6.813  x  L =  9.75"  or smaller can be used ( H, W & L = + or
- - .25") can be used.
        Another option is to relocate your battery to the back so no
hold down is required

        If you choose to participate in this buy please E-mail me, Jim Floyd
at
jim_floyd@maxtor.com.
        Give me your name, a phone number, a shipping address and
which configuration/color you want. Standard color is the black chrome
paint.
       
        The buy will go down like this.
        We each will send $150.00 deposit to Chris Thorne.
This will separate the Men from the boys.
       
He will then submit the first checks and begin manufacturing
once they have cleared through their banks.
Manufacturing will take 4 - 6 weeks.
        The deposit checks will go to:
                        Chris Thorne
                        Apt. 212
                        1404 East Schuylkill Road
                        Pottstown, PA  19465


    If you need to contact me by phone I am at 303-702-4421 during the day.

    Jim Floyd

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:26:51 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: Carbotech and Panther pads update

Had a nice friendly telephone discussion with Andie Lin.  He has taken
personal ownership of the fitment problem.  Turns out he is a nice guy, an
NSX owner who does the same sort of stuff we do.  He is the new kid at
Carbotech, having been there 2 weeks. He was handed my problem without any
background and instructed how to take care of it.  On reflection, he decided
that his instructions were ill-advised.

He is working with me to identify the source of the discrepancy and the
corrective procedure.  We both have homework over the weekend and I'll let
y'all know the outcome.

He is also curious about the size of our ranks, probably because of the
immediate groundswell of support!  Anybody know how many of us there are out
there?

Chuck Willis

P.S.

He said I should remove my dust covers. too! 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance

Hi Justin,

My original comment.
"The truth is both filters *can* flow about the same amount of air
(at least at the practical flow levels for our engines). The
difference between filters is the amount of pressure loss at a
particular flow value."

The K&N has less pressure loss than the factory filter at a given air
flow. That's a good thing. Hopefully your demostrator was measuring
the pressure difference on each side of the filter? Also, how was air
flow measured? An engine will only draw as much air as it needs for
the load, so what were the circumstances of the comparison?

Again, air flow comparisons CAN ONLY have meaning when pressure
differences are stated. Meaningful comparisons of air flow will be at
the same pressure difference across the filter. Considering that the
engine and load determine the amount of air drawn in, the practical
effect of efficient filters, such as the K&N, is higher intake air
pressures (that is less pressure loss across the filter) and so
denser intake air.

The factory air filter will flow just as much air as more efficient
filters, but with more pressure loss (and every filter creates a
pressure loss). For a NA engine, lower pressure means lower air
density and so less power (other factors being equal). For a
turbocharged engine, the effects of lower intake pressure are less
dramatic yet still present (as lower max boost pressure and possibly
higher turbo exit temps).

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Maupin, Justin" <Justin.Maupin@kla-tencor.com>
To: "team3S@stealth-3000gt. st (E-mail)" <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance


Jeff,

I have some confusion based on your comment that:
"This is why the many comments about K&N filters flowing more air
than stock are so silly!"

I recently came across the K&N demonstrator at a local shop and was
amazed at the increased flow rate of the K&N filter as compared to
other notable brands.
Based on my own observations perhaps you can understand my confusion
on your statement. I am not saying that you are in error... just
looking for clarification and understanding on this subject.

In addition to the demonstrator I also experienced a similar reaction
when replacing the stock air filter in my wife's Mustang-GT.  The
addition of the K&N provided at the very least an above average
throttle response.  My hypothosis to this is of course is an
increased airflow thru the air intake. Of course the reaction could
be due to a clean filter as opposed to the used part the was
originally in.

Just a questioning analytical mind, hope I didn't offend.

Justin
92 Green RT/TT
FIPK Clone
Porterfield Rotors
Autometer Boost Gauge

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:00:29 -0700
From: Wayne <whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Team3S: 13g Identification

Hello everyone,
Does anybody know how to identify a 13g turbo vs. a stock 9b?
Is there some kind of marking on the compressor housing or something?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:14:30 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Carbotech and Panther pads update; Team3S member base...(OT)

> He is also curious about the size of our ranks, probably because of the
immediate groundswell of support!  Anybody know how many of us there are out
there?
> Chuck Willis
- ---------------------------------

It's hard to say exactly, since a lot of folks are not "joiners" or are
uptightabout signing up for *anything* on-line.  They are not members, but
they read the digests every day, just like our members do. (I know - they
send the Admins their questions, since they can't post to the list)!  So the
number of actual member is only a partial indication of the number of owners
(and others) out there that follow our list and website...
The whole world is watching.  :-)

Latest numbers and history for Team3S are:

540+ active members, in 33 countries (07/25/01)
80+ members on vacation, or off-line by request
50+ ex-members who have sold their cars
60+ rejected sign-ups (JUNO or AOL6 can't join - software issue)
TOTAL:  730+ sign-ups

Our www.Team3S.com website has ~1200 pages (including archives)
We got 164,000 hits in June, we'll get ~190,000 hits in July
In June, site visitors downloaded 15GB of pages and images.
Hits have come from 56 countries.
Hits have come from 27 Governments(!)

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 13g Identification

A true MHI 13G compressor housing will have the following part
numbers stamped on it.
- - right-side (front) number: 49177-00320
- - left-side (rear) number: 49177-00420

The MHI 9B compressor housing has these numbers.
- - right-side number: 49177-02310
- - left-side number: 49177-02410

Many more details and pictures at my turbo upgrade guide below.

http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius2/j2-2-turboguide.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <whietala@prodigy.net>
To: <Team3S@Stealth-3000GT.st>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: Team3S: 13g Identification


Hello everyone,
Does anybody know how to identify a 13g turbo vs. a stock 9b?
Is there some kind of marking on the compressor housing or something?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:00:28 -0700
From: Richard <radanc@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance

Why use those heavvvy stainless things anyway?

BlackLight wrote:
>
> I have talked to a few people that have the IC Hardpipes and they all
> said that they noticed a difference in the responsiveness of the turbos,
> some said that they helped with lag some. I am sure there is a
> difference to be noticed, probably not a great one like 25 - 50 %, but
> enough to make it noticeable.
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT
> Computer Sales Consultant
> Gateway Computers, Salem OR
> Work Phone 503-587-7113
> BlackLight@Planetice.Net
> www.BlackLight.5u.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Roger Gerl
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance
>
> >Geez, thanks for shooting it down, how do you know its not true?
>
> Simple maths ! An engine needs an amount of air to breath (airflow, e.g.
>
> 720cfm on high rpm for our engine) Now the intake tract may cause a
> restriction but the turbos are playing the important rule here as they
> should provide this flow of air. In fact half the amount as we have two
> of
> them, therefore the restriction is half too on each side. If the intake
> path is a restriction, the turbos have to work harder to produce this
> amount of boost we want. The intake therefore plays a smaller rule in
> the
> whole story. Smooting the intake on a turbo car may only help in
> spooling
> up of the turbos as well as when the needed amount of air exceeds the
> capability of the stock air system. The rubber parts in our cars are big
>
> enough to flow and the flex parts are not a big restriction at all.
>
> >As a matter of fact, the person who said 50% has the last name of
> >Lucius.
>
> No, Jeff will not tell such BS. Maybe airflow can be increased by 0.05%
> I'm
> sure Jeff will post what he really said.
>
> >The person who said 25% has the informal name of D&N Performance.
>
> BS too, but this is normal for people who want to sell their stuff.
> There
> are no figures around, nobody flow-tested the stock parts and then the
> metal stuff. Of course not, because one would find out that there is no
> gain. Maybe there is one as the stock system is probably flowing 1000cfm
>
> and the metall stuff 1500cfm ... yes, this is a 50% gain ... but our
> cars
> will never need that much air. In fact 950cfm is way the biggest amount
> of
> flow needed.
>
> Under the line, it is a nice looking upgrade for under the hood
> appearance.
> No gain will ever be found at all. If one claims a performance gain, he
> should provide real numbers. 50% or even 25% is way off the reality.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:20:07 -0500
From: "john adams" <johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance

What about routing (supposing it was desirable to do so somehow) a
switchable path of fresh air from the already existent fan on the
interior. Would the difference be meaningful in terms of increased air flow
and cooler temperature? Comparable to these electric "superchargers"?
Just a thought, albeit perhaps not entirely a justifiable one for most cases.

john
93 stealth

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:36:48 -0400
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re - D&N Performance

Well I through I'd share what I know on these.  As for D&N IC pipes yes they
look good but what you see is what you get.  Meaning the only pipes in Don's
kit are the ones you see when you open the hood, he doesn't replace the
stock IC pipe on the bottom going from the front turbo to the intercooler,
so you are still running a small stock pipe there.  I asked Don about this
because I have the HKS kit which does replace the lower pipe with a larger
pipe, so I not sure how this plays into the equation, but just something to
muddy the water a bit.  Also none of the piping kits I have seen HKS nor D&N
has a larger opening coming out of the turbos initially, so there is still
the small stock opening there used on box IC piping kits.

As for K&N's and air flow, I was at AAM during a dyno run while they were
trying to get a base line on a stock VR-4.  Prior to doing one run they
wanted to see what types of gains were available if they were to use an
after market air filter or at least a free flow filter.  They didn't install
an air filter they instead had one of the guys open the stock air box there
by increase the flow to the maximum extent.  They held the box open between
the air filter and the MAS basically they were running no air filter at all,
to see what results, if any, they would find.  Comparing the two runs one
with the air filter hooked up and one without, the result was about 1.5 HP
difference, for what it's worth.  And that was the only change and
everything else remained the same, so more food for thought regarding
filters.

Dave Best
http://davebest.dsmpower.com/


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:57:50 -0500
From: "Brett Russell" <brussell@powercom.net>
Subject: Team3S: Negative Ground

In my search for the fix to my car not starting this morning, I'm wondering
where the negative ground is attached on the car.  If anyone can help, I
would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Brett


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:14:28 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Which boost gauge matches best

Hi all,

I am looking for a boost gauge to install on my A-pillar. I have been
trying to find one that looks nice and matches my other stock gauges with
black background, orange light and red needles. I have two questions:

1) Should I get a 46-mm, 52-mm (2-1/16") or a 60-mm (2-5/8") gauge for my
A-pillar? Are 60-mm (2-5/8") gauge pods available for our cars?

2) Which one of these gauges would you recommend?
http://www.mn3s.org/gauges.html
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/bstgauge.htm
http://www.hksusa.com/html/metersgauges.htm

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Philip


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:28:22 -0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: Team3S: Team 3S member base (OT)

Since it's being discussed, I thought I'd take the time to post a little
comparison.

3000GT/Stealth International Membership (3si.org)
~3200 ACTIVE members
~5300 Board sign-ups
35,000 Threads on ALL topics covering all aspects of owning a 3S
(performance, regular maintenance, appearance mods, general care and audio)
Over 1000 PAID 3SI members ($8 each for membership package)
ANYONE with a browser and an internet connection can join/browse/post (no
software issues)
Traffic is in excess of 400 GB every month
International participation (specific numbers not available)


Active, real life participation by thousands of members through hundreds of
test and tune, racing, repair and social gatherings every year.  Large
yearly gatherings on both the east and west coasts.  Active participation by
3 major 3S shops and significant participation by over a dozen
non-specialist vendors/shops.


Jeff V.
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:49:01 -0500
From: "bdtrent" <bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Lap Times

John,

The last time I was there, C group was running anywhere from 1:30 to 1:40.
My best time on street tires and conservative brake use, i.e. holding my
speed on the front straight to 100mph, was consistently between 131 and 132.
I'm hoping a brake upgrade will get me into the high 120's.  It sure will be
fun trying.  Unless something brakes, I'll be there with Track Time in
September.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

> Are the C group cars running 1:30 lap times at
> Putnam??
>
>
> Be of good cheer,
> John
>
>
> --- bdtrent <bdtrent@netzero.net> wrote:
> > Rich,
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, it depends on how
> > competitive your daughter want's
> > to be.  My first gen brakes with R4S's and slotted
> > Porterfields seem to work
> > sufficiently at Putnam Park.  The Porterfields
> > havn't warped a bit, and the
> > pads still have a good 50-60% after 1 weekend.  As
> > long as I back out of the
> > throttle going down the main straight and don't get
> > too agressive on the
> > rest of the track, fade is not too bad.  Needless to
> > say, this has a
> > detrimental effect on lap times.  Using conservative
> > braking, I'm able to
> > run lap times with the fast C class drivers.  I
> > suspect that to be
> > competitve in the B class I will need the Big Red
> > upgrade.
> >
> > Regards,
> > DaveT/92TT
>
> =====
> Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:18:44 +0700
From: "CV. Duta Karya Teknik" <dutakt@sby.centrin.net.id>
Subject: Team3S: NEED INFO

Hi all,

I have a problem with my Mitsu in which it always sound clicking when I rev
it up the sound like detonation inside each cylinder. I have adjusted the
ignition timing at 5 deg. BTDC but the sound always there. Should it come
because the ignition is not correct or not good fuel which has no high
octane.
I have tried to adjust 5 deg +/- 2 deg BTDC but the result is nothing.
If anybody know how to fix it, please let me know.

Kindly regards,
GTi 1600



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Negative Ground

There are maybe a dozen negative earths on our cars. There are two
that come off the battery neg terminal - one to the "firewall" behind
it and the other to the engine. The service manuals shows where they
all are. You are diagnosing using the service manuals right?

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Russell" <brussell@powercom.net>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:57 PM
Subject: Team3S: Negative Ground

In my search for the fix to my car not starting this morning, I'm
wondering where the negative ground is attached on the car.  If
anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Brett

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which boost gauge matches best

I personally do not like the boost gauge on the A-pillar. I have my
GReddy peak-hold-warn 60-mm gauge mounted on the steering column
cover (using GReddy's mount). Visually to the driver, it is centered
on the tach gauge and does not obscure anything.

A-pillar pods come in "52-mm" only (single or double). I have seen
some 60-mm gauges used though - depends on the depth of the gauge. A
46-mm gauge would not fit with some sort of adaptation.

I didn't look at the models you show below, but I highly recommend a
boost gauge that has warning and peak-hold ability. This means
electronic of course.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <gphilip@umich.edu>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:14 PM
Subject: Team3S: Which boost gauge matches best


Hi all,

I am looking for a boost gauge to install on my A-pillar. I have been

trying to find one that looks nice and matches my other stock gauges
with black background, orange light and red needles. I have two
questions:

1) Should I get a 46-mm, 52-mm (2-1/16") or a 60-mm (2-5/8") gauge
for my A-pillar? Are 60-mm (2-5/8") gauge pods available for our
cars?

2) Which one of these gauges would you recommend?
http://www.mn3s.org/gauges.html
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/bstgauge.htm
http://www.hksusa.com/html/metersgauges.htm

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:37:18 -0500
From: "Brett Russell" <brussell@powercom.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Negative Ground

Yeah, I'm diagnosing using the service manuals, but I may not know how to
read the electrical diagrams if there's just a symbol for a ground.  I
didn't see any diagrams of the engine bay showing where the grounds are, but
perhaps I just didn't find the correct part of the manuals.  Do you happen
to know the section/page where this diagram is located?

Thanks for your help,
Brett

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Negative Ground


> There are maybe a dozen negative earths on our cars. There are two
> that come off the battery neg terminal - one to the "firewall" behind
> it and the other to the engine. The service manuals shows where they
> all are. You are diagnosing using the service manuals right?
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Russell" <brussell@powercom.net>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:57 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Negative Ground
>
> In my search for the fix to my car not starting this morning, I'm
> wondering where the negative ground is attached on the car.  If
> anyone can help, I would appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brett

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #559
***************************************