team3s            Wednesday, March 7 2001            Volume 01 : Number 429




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:21:33 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock amp (under dash)...

Jeff Crabtree wrote:

>     I'll have to scan these pages in and post them as .jpg files.  I'll try
> to get this done tomorrow first thing.
>

For those hanging on the edges of their seats waiting for me to do what I said
I would, sorry.  I got busy today.  I'll be sure it gets done tomorrow.

- --
- -Jeff Crabtree
    '91 Stealth R/T TT(3/SI #499)
          2K Wrangler TJ Sport
               St. Louis, MO



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:41:32 -0600
From: "Eric Cheek" <echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What are some symptoms of misfire?

Well I was having both the sorta "miss" in 2nd at about 4,000 RPM under WOT,
and then again in 3rd at about 3-4K..... Then while in Kansas City I was
cruising at about 75-80 in 5th and hit the gas to pass a few cars and the
RPM's jumped to about 6500 RPM with only a 10 Mph increase in speed ... humm
my guess was a bad clutch and after checking with the dealership locally it
was confirmed. Well I had them replace the clutch (620 bucks, but they have
done really good work on the car and actually seem to care about what they
are doing) and no more problems in 5th (testing after putting an easy ..
well as easy as I could 3-4K miles on the car). But under WOT in 2nd and 3rd
I'm still getting the "miss" that seems like it could be a clutch slip ..
but I can't see any RPM increase that is off from the change in velocity. So
since I've got 113K miles I'm going to try new plugs/wires, and in 7K miles
go in for another 60K mile service. Belts, water pump, injector cleaning etc
..... gag I need to learn how to work on this turbo motor I just don't want
to mess it up :)... I love driving it too much.

Anyhow, my guess is you don't have a clutch prob, you probably have the
same problem I do and hopefully one of us will find it.

Eric Cheek 92 VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of
ukyo@speedfactory.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:08 AM
To: team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: What are some symptoms of misfire?


*First let me apologize for the basic questions contained here*

What does it feel like when your plugs fail to fire correctly?  Could
it make the engine "skip" a little, but only under load?  Would it
feel a little like multiple split second hesitations?  Could it be
mistaken by someone who has never, *NEVER* had a slipping clutch as
cluth slip?


- --Travis
'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)

'94 3000GT VR4 (Stock with basically new engine / Green)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:27:22 -0800
From: "Jose Soriano" <Amahoser@linkline.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Racing seats mounting (OT)

> What specific problems did you have with the stock sliders?  Were they
> just too difficult to remove from the stock seat, or to install on the
> new seat?  Was the seat too high using the stock sliders?  I'm in the
> process of doing exactly what you've done - I'm trying to put a Sparco
> seat in my VR-4.  If I use the Sparco mount, base & sliders, it will be
> way too high, so I was hoping maybe the stock sliders would be lower
> since they are integrated with the base.
> -Steve
> '92 VR-4

The stock sliders are intergrated into the stock seat. Unbolt a TON of stuff
to remove it. Its a pain but it isn't that hard. Once it's out, the real
ordeal begins. First thing I noticed is that the bolts sticking up from the
sliders, of course do not match up with the mounting holes on the Sparco
side mount base. You'll need to drill out new mount holes. Next, the seat is
too narrow for the width of the rails. I eneded up mounting one side mount
base backwards from the other. This narrowed the width perfectly. Now the
fun part. The slider actuator on the stock sliders exit out  the side. Also,
the actuator mechanism on the left side sticks up and interferes with the
left Sparco side mount bracket. In order to keep the slider mechanism in its
spot, I had to cut a slot in the Sparco side mount bracket to clear the
slider actuator. The right side slider has a metal cover that I had to grind
off so the Sparco side mount bracket would sit on the slider flat. Ok, now
the seat can be installed. I put everything in and notice that the seat was
not level side to side! Appearantly, one slider is higher than the other! Oh
well, I adjusted that out with the various mounting holes on the Sparco side
mount base. After all that is when I realized that it sat way too high, even
adjusted to the lowest mounting holes that I could put the seat at and still
clear the slider actuator. I MIGHT try to relocate the slider actuator or
different things to make the seat lower but I'll probably just end up
bolting the Sparco side mount base to the floor and not have and sliders....


Oh well

Hoser



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:04:55 -0800 (PST)
From: raul cinelli <raulcinelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: air escape

First, I'm sorry about my english, I speak spanish but
I'll try to do my best...
Since I bought my 95 GT VR4, it makes a noise when the
turbos start working. The noise seems to come from
under the dash, on the left side of the car, and it is
bigger when you push the throtle, and it dissapears as
soon as you release the throtle.
I feel the car is slower than my former 3000 VR4, wich
was a 93 model, even when my actual car has 20 more
horses.
The noise sounds like an Air leak, and I even can feel
the air in my left leg sometimes when accelerating the
car.
I tried changing the clutch pump (the one behind the
clutch pedal), checking the hoses, and nothing, it is
always the same.
Another thing I notice is a smell like gas, not too
strong, but it is like that.
I need some help here please.
Thanks a lot,

Raul Cinelli from Argentina
95 3000 GT VR4
white pearl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:42:45 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: swirl polished valves

- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
> I'm going to try this one again --- I got no response the first time,
but I
> can't beleive that nobody knows the answer.
>
> > I've seen reference to swirl polished valves lately ---- what is it,
> > what is the benefit and what  should it cost [ assuming you have
> > the valves out of the heads].
> >

Ya got me too...  I've heard of them for years (among the Camaro,
Firebird, Mustang and rebuilt Hemi crowd).   But as to exactly *what* is
different about swirl polishing, I'll have to defer to the engine
rebuilders on the list.  These are replacements, and AFAIK, you can't
get it done to "stockers".  Competition valves are made out of stainless
steel - manufactured from hardened 4N stainless alloys to control
stress, and that the heads are "swirl polished", but that's the extent
of my knowledge.  Most of the apps I've ever seen have said that they're
not legal in emission-controlled vehicles, so it sounds like race-crowd
only stuff...

Best I can do - just so ya know we're not ignoring you...  :-)

Forrest







***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:16:20 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: swirl polished valves

Swirl polishing promotes gas directional flow across the valve.  It is often
done to the tulip area of the valve.  I have no idea what it costs.  It is
likely worth it if you already have the head apart.  Questionable as to
noticable differences without other mods.  The stock heads already flow
better than the rest of the engine can support without excessive mods.  That
being said, why not do it while the engine is opened up if it is affordable.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
> [mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Jim Berry
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:22 PM
> To: team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Fw: Team3S: swirl polished valves
>
>
> I'm going to try this one again --- I got no response the first
> time, but I
> can't beleive that nobody knows the answer.
>
> > I've seen reference to swirl polished valves lately ---- what is it,
> > what is the benefit and what  should it cost [ assuming you have
> > the valves out of the heads].
> >
> >         Jim Berry
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:17:35 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

>>> I need some help please! 2,000 miles ago, the thermostat of my '95
VR4 was broken. I couldn't get one here in south america so I decide to
take it off and I continued using my car without any temperature problem
for the last 2,000 miles, but yesterday, the temperature started to go
higher and higher.  I checked the water level in the jar and in the
radiator and they are Ok. I also checked the radiator fans and they are
working right. The water pump is not leaking.  Can you please tell me
what can be causing this problem.  Thanks a lot.
Raul Cinelli, Argentina   95 3000 GT VR4<<<

The thermostat is there only to allow the engine to warm up when you
first start it.  This is most useful in cold climates, so driving with
no thermostat shouldn't be a problem in Argentina.  It probably has
nothing to do with your overheating.  Have you done a complete cooling
system flush?  If the car is overheating, something is blocking the
normal flow of coolant.  If you use the air conditioner while sitting at
idle in stalled traffic on a hot day, overheating can occur if there is
even a partial blockage of the coolant flow.  Try revving the engine
higher in neutral whenever you have to stop, and leave the A/C off while
it's happening.  And check the water pump & belt again.

Good luck!


Forrest





***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:11:37 -0600
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

I don't believe this is 100% correct.  The thermostat does have one other
purpose.  Aside from giving the coolant in the block a chance to warm up on
cold days, it gives the coolant in the radiator a chance to cool down.  I
know a lot of racers that have tried to use extremely low temp thermostats
only to find out they make the system run hotter.  Anything less than about
a 165-170 degree thermostat is going to cause problems. 

- -John

SNIP


The thermostat is there only to allow the engine to warm up when you
first start it.  This is most useful in cold climates, so driving
with
no thermostat shouldn't be a problem in Argentina.  It probably has
nothing to do with your overheating.







***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:53:52 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

> The thermostat does have one other purpose.  Aside from
> giving the coolant in the block a chance to warm up on
> cold days, it gives the coolant in the radiator a chance to
> cool down.  I know a lot of racers that have tried to
> use extremely low temp thermostats only to find out they
> make the system run hotter.  Anything less than about
> a 165-170 degree thermostat is going to cause problems. 

Lower temp thermostats also hold the ECU in closed-loop mode while it tries
to warm the motor up to operating temperature, causing a loss in fuel
economy and further richening the mixture.  Tried it on my Eclipse GSX and
gas mileage went from 20 MPG to 13 MPG.  I'd guess a 3/S car would react
similarly since the ECUs are basically the same.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:00:43 -0000
From: "George Shaw" <george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Subject: Team3S: K&N FIPK

Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in the
conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
instructions?

UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US shipped
to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)


- --
EMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
EMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
Office:                +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
Fax/Voice Mail:        +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
Mobile:                +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
Home:                  +44 (0) 28 9062 8924
ICQ#:                  1741675



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:10:29 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

Two answers.  Yes.  No, you gain some cheap horses and a novel sounding "owl
hoot" or "goose honk" until you also replace the stock BOV (blow off valve).
Okay, two non-answers.  I don't know a Web site for removing the stock air
box and installing the K&N, but there has always been a lot of discussion
about it.  That seems pricey, but I don't have an American price handy.

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Shaw [SMTP:george.shaw@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:01 AM
> To: Team3S Technical Forum
> Subject: Team3S: K&N FIPK
>
> Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in
> the
> conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
> instructions?
>
> UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US
> shipped
> to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)
>
>
> --
> EMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
> EMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
> Office:                +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
> Fax/Voice Mail:        +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
> Mobile:                +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
> Home:                  +44 (0) 28 9062 8924
> ICQ#:                  1741675
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:04:46 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems

Would it help my Summer vapor lock problem (occurs when the car sits
a while after being driven) to remove the insulation on the under side of
the hood ?  Would I be at risk for having the paint ruined from the engine
heat with the under hood insulation gone ?

Thanks.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest [mailto:bf@bobforrest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:18 AM
To: raul cinelli; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems


>>> I need some help please! 2,000 miles ago, the thermostat of my '95
VR4 was broken. I couldn't get one here in south america so I decide to
take it off and I continued using my car without any temperature problem
for the last 2,000 miles, but yesterday, the temperature started to go
higher and higher.  I checked the water level in the jar and in the
radiator and they are Ok. I also checked the radiator fans and they are
working right. The water pump is not leaking.  Can you please tell me
what can be causing this problem.  Thanks a lot.
Raul Cinelli, Argentina   95 3000 GT VR4<<<

The thermostat is there only to allow the engine to warm up when you
first start it.  This is most useful in cold climates, so driving with
no thermostat shouldn't be a problem in Argentina.  It probably has
nothing to do with your overheating.  Have you done a complete cooling
system flush?  If the car is overheating, something is blocking the
normal flow of coolant.  If you use the air conditioner while sitting at
idle in stalled traffic on a hot day, overheating can occur if there is
even a partial blockage of the coolant flow.  Try revving the engine
higher in neutral whenever you have to stop, and leave the A/C off while
it's happening.  And check the water pump & belt again.

Good luck!


Forrest





***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:05:43 -0600
From: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

If I remember correctly, on e-bay right now there is a guy doing a dutch
auction for the k&n fipk kit for $134 u.s. plus shipping.  Is that a good
price???  Let me know anyone's thoughts.
Thanks,

Gabriel Estrada
Internet Sales Director
McCarthy Automotive Group
Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai
913-269-7365



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:10 AM
To: 'george.shaw@btinternet.com'; Team3S Technical Forum
Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK


Two answers.  Yes.  No, you gain some cheap horses and a novel sounding "owl
hoot" or "goose honk" until you also replace the stock BOV (blow off valve).
Okay, two non-answers.  I don't know a Web site for removing the stock air
box and installing the K&N, but there has always been a lot of discussion
about it.  That seems pricey, but I don't have an American price handy.

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Shaw [SMTP:george.shaw@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:01 AM
> To: Team3S Technical Forum
> Subject: Team3S: K&N FIPK
>
> Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in
> the
> conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
> instructions?
>
> UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US
> shipped
> to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)
>
>
> --
> EMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
> EMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
> Office:                +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
> Fax/Voice Mail:        +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
> Mobile:                +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
> Home:                  +44 (0) 28 9062 8924
> ICQ#:                  1741675
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:18:06 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems

1st time I recall hearing anyone report a vapor lock problem with a 3000GT.
Is this a VR4 or not?

I think your hood paint will definitely suffer without the insulation.

What region of the country are you in?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems
>
>
> Would it help my Summer vapor lock problem (occurs when the car sits
> a while after being driven) to remove the insulation on the under side of
> the hood ?  Would I be at risk for having the paint ruined from the engine
> heat with the under hood insulation gone ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:19:40 -0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

The instructions in my K&N FIPK were for a 3000GT (the pictures even had the
exact same engine bay with the Mitsubishi on the plenum and everything).  It
is a direct bolt-on procedure with all hardware (no drilling).

It does allow the engine to breathe better.  It does claim to add 2-5 hp on
stock setup but overall I believe it is better.

Other systems that do not pull air from the engine bay are better or cool it
first, but that was not your question.

I lost my detailed pictures but I think on Lucius or the Team3S page it
shows the real PITA stock bolts on the stock airbox.  Good luck.  We all
went through the same steps.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/K&N FIPK

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Shaw [mailto:george.shaw@btinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:01 AM
To: Team3S Technical Forum
Subject: Team3S: K&N FIPK


Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in the
conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
instructions?

UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US shipped
to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:30:38 -0600
From: "Craig Golema" <CGOLEMA@hobbico.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK

$134.00 is a pretty good price for the FIPK. Below is a link to a site with a number of photo illustrated maintenance procedures for the 3/S owner. The FIPK install is one of them.

http://user.icx.net/~adams/repair_main.htm

Hope this helps,

Craig

>>> "George Shaw" <george.shaw@btinternet.com> 03/07/01 10:00AM >>>
Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in the
conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
instructions?

UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US shipped
to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)


- --
EMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
EMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
Office:                +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
Fax/Voice Mail:        +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
Mobile:                +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
Home:                  +44 (0) 28 9062 8924
ICQ#:                  1741675



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:32:47 -0700
From: "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems

Chuck,

I live around Boulder, CO and I use my VR4 to get to my home in the
mountains after the snow storms.
The fact that it goes really fast has nothing to do with why I
bought it. (my wife believed it when I told her that)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Floyd, Jim'; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems


1st time I recall hearing anyone report a vapor lock problem with a 3000GT.
Is this a VR4 or not?

I think your hood paint will definitely suffer without the insulation.

What region of the country are you in?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems
>
>
> Would it help my Summer vapor lock problem (occurs when the car sits
> a while after being driven) to remove the insulation on the under side of
> the hood ?  Would I be at risk for having the paint ruined from the engine
> heat with the under hood insulation gone ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:34:00 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

I guess a thermostat (of some sort) IS necessary in the loop--  I stand
corrected.  Perhaps a member who is about to place a parts order can add
a thermostat to it, and contact Raul in Argentina (privately) and
arrange to send him one from the US.(?)

A quick check of the Search Page turned up 25 past threads on
"thermostat".  I didn't read all the entries, but I copied Lynn
Larsen's reply from 2 years ago, since it appears to add more useful
info.  I've repeated the entire reply thread, below, followed by Lynn's
'99 post (for ease in future archives...):

From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
>>> The thermostat is there only to allow the engine to warm up when you
first start it. This is most useful in cold climates, so driving with no
thermostat shouldn't be a problem in Argentina.  It probably has nothing
to do with your overheating.<<<
>
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
> I don't believe this is 100% correct.  The thermostat does have one
other purpose.
Aside from giving the coolant in the block a chance to warm up on cold
days, it gives the coolant in the radiator a chance to cool down.  I
know a lot of racers that have tried to use extremely low temp
thermostats only to find out they make the system run hotter.  Anything
less than about a 165-170 degree thermostat is going to cause
problems.<<<
>
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
> Lower temp thermostats also hold the ECU in closed-loop mode while it
tries to warm the motor up to operating temperature, causing a loss in
fuel economy and further richening the mixture.  Tried it on my Eclipse
GSX and gas mileage went from 20 MPG to 13 MPG.  I'd guess a 3/S car
would react similarly since the ECUs are basically the same.<<<
>

Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:53:47 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thermostat

Whatever you do, don't go with no thermostat, even with "Detroit Iron",
as the end result is that the coolant passes through the block so fast
that it doesn't have time to pick up enough heat to cool the engine
properly.  Even when no thermostat is used, a restrictor needs to be put
in its place to slow the flow.

Regards,
Lynn







***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:10:45 -0800
From: "Bart Kurek" <bart_kurek@eli.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK

Will carparts ship to UK? If so wait until there's a deal. Check on
www.importhookup.com for latest deals. With the 50% coupon I bought mine at
around $75.00. That is a good deal. ;) I don't think they do the 50% any
more but they do I think up to 33%. Either way it's more of a savings than
you are currently looking at. The instructions are in the box. No need for
anything more. It's very straight forward. The only thing they don't mention
in the actual instructions is how much of a bitch it is to remove those
little nuts that hold the ECU on. You can see some of my horror here...
http://www.bart.kurek.com/photo/3000gt.htm Good luck. You'll like it.

- -Bart Kurek
Sales Engineer
Electric Lightwave Inc. (ELIX)
http://www.eli.net
mailto:bart_kurek@eli.net


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Golema" <CGOLEMA@hobbico.com>
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK


$134.00 is a pretty good price for the FIPK. Below is a link to a site with
a number of photo illustrated maintenance procedures for the 3/S owner. The
FIPK install is one of them.

http://user.icx.net/~adams/repair_main.htm

Hope this helps,

Craig

>>> "George Shaw" <george.shaw@btinternet.com> 03/07/01 10:00AM >>>
Two questions. Is the K&N FIPK worth fitting? Do you loose any thing in the
conversion? Ok three questions. Any Web sites with detailed fitting
instructions?

UK price is £240 ($352.35) shipped to Belfast any better price in US shipped
to UK? (OK 4 maths was never my strong point :)


- --
EMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
EMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
Office:                +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
Fax/Voice Mail:        +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
Mobile:                +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:22:27 -0800
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Temperature problems

Jim,

When you say "vapor lock", what symptoms do you have to lead you to this diagnosis?

Regards,

Dan Jett
94 Stealth TT

>>> "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com> - 3/7/01 8:32 AM >>>
Chuck,

 I live around Boulder, CO and I use my VR4 to get to my home in the
mountains after the snow storms.
 The fact that it goes really fast has nothing to do with why I
bought it. (my wife believed it when I told her that)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Floyd, Jim'; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems


1st time I recall hearing anyone report a vapor lock problem with a 3000GT.
Is this a VR4 or not?

I think your hood paint will definitely suffer without the insulation.

What region of the country are you in?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems
>
>
>  Would it help my Summer vapor lock problem (occurs when the car sits
> a while after being driven) to remove the insulation on the under side of
> the hood ?  Would I be at risk for having the paint ruined from the engine
> heat with the under hood insulation gone ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:10:47 -0500
From: "ukyo@speedfactory.net" <ukyo@speedfactory.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

Not always true...

I have the novel owl hoot and I haven't even got my K&N from
Wrenchead yet.  I don't think the intake filter causes the hoot.  I
think it all comes down to the proper adjustment of the BOV.  Of
course, I could be wrong. ;)

- --Travis
'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)

'94 3000GT VR4 (Stock with basically new engine / Green)

At Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:10:29 -0600 , you wrote:
>Two answers.  Yes.  No, you gain some cheap horses and a novel
sounding "owl
>hoot" or "goose honk" until you also replace the stock BOV (blow off
valve).
>Okay, two non-answers.  I don't know a Web site for removing the
stock air
>box and installing the K&N, but there has always been a lot of
discussion
>about it.  That seems pricey, but I don't have an American price
handy.
>
>Chuck

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:49:19 -0800
From: Daniel Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems

Jim,

I've been having a similar problem.

When restarting the car after driving for awhile, I will have a rather lumpy idle, ie., it hunts for a couple of minutes before smoothing out. I have to give it some gas to avoid stalling.

I had the throttle body cleaned, injectors/fuel system flushed, and then the Crank Angle Sensor swapped out. Still occurs intermittently, and now I have a lead that it may be the "blades" which the crank angle sensor reads. I am still researching the "blades" at this point to find the exact part, and possible root cause, of the failure.

I'll keep you informed. I have the 3SI manuals on CD, so if I have a spare few minuted this morning, I'll post my findings!

Regards,

Dan J
94 Stealth TT

>>> "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com> - 3/7/01 9:23 AM >>>

 When trying to start after having been driven in warm/hot weather
(and sitting for about 30-45 min.) I have to crank it many times for 3 to 4
min. to get it to start. It acts like it is starved for fuel, in that it
tries to start firing a little more each time you crank it. Finally it runs
really rough until you can slowly get the RPM up to about 1,500 and then it
straightens out and runs fine.

 What do you think ?

- -----Original Message-----------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Jett [mailto:djett@corp.ultratech.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:22 AM
To: Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Temperature problems


Jim,

When you say "vapor lock", what symptoms occur to lead you to this
diagnosis?

Regards,

Dan Jett
94 Stealth TT

>>> "Floyd, Jim" <Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com> - 3/7/01 8:32 AM >>>
Chuck,

 I live around Boulder, CO and I use my VR4 to get to my home in the
mountains after the snow storms.
 The fact that it goes really fast has nothing to do with why I
bought it. (my wife believed it when I told her that)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:18 AM
To: 'Floyd, Jim'; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: Temperature problems


1st time I recall hearing anyone report a vapor lock problem with a 3000GT.
Is this a VR4 or not?

I think your hood paint will definitely suffer without the insulation.

What region of the country are you in?

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Floyd, Jim [SMTP:Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Temperature problems
>
>
>  Would it help my Summer vapor lock problem (occurs when the car sits
> a while after being driven) to remove the insulation on the under side of
> the hood ?  Would I be at risk for having the paint ruined from the engine
> heat with the under hood insulation gone ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !
                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:23:09 EST
From: RDO26@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

It also is worth mentioning that there is a K&N filter designed for the 2nd gen Eclipse (DSM) cars that also fits out cars. It's called the Aircharger, I think. It needs a modified bracket, has an extra bolt stud sticking out of an obvious place and doesn't come with a cleaning kit, but otherwise is a great deal at about $45. Its also bit larger than the FIPK, which some have said helps. It also doesn't have a CARB sticker, but that doesn't matter as you arent in the US.

Ron

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:22:51 -0500
From: "Alan Sheffield" <a92rttt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK

>Any Web sites with detailed fitting instructions?

http://mi3si.org/techdata/knairfilter.htm
This is my first stab at the k&n install page their might be some errors.
But, the install is pretty basic and this should be enough.


Alan
alan92rttt@mi3si.org
www.mi3si.org


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:56:30 -0000
From: "George Shaw" <george.shaw@btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: K&N FIPK

WOW! Thanks to all that replied Thanks for the info. I wanted to print it
out to read on my trip to Dublin tomorrow, hence the request for a Web site.
Looks like I will buy one from the USA given the prices you guys are being
asked. Again thanks to all who replied.


eMail:                 george.shaw@xlsolutions.com
eMail:                 george.shaw@btinternet.com
Office:                 +44 (0) 28 9092 5000
Fax/Voice Mail:  +44 (0) 87 0133 6126
Fax/Voice Mail:   +44 (0) 87 0831 4052
Mobile:               +44 (0) 78 1162 5179
Home:                 +44 (0) 28 9062 8924
ICQ#:                          1741675

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st
[mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On Behalf Of Alan Sheffield
Sent: 07 March 2001 16:23
To: Team3S Technical Forum
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK

>Any Web sites with detailed fitting instructions?

http://mi3si.org/techdata/knairfilter.htm
This is my first stab at the k&n install page their might be some errors.
But, the install is pretty basic and this should be enough.


Alan
alan92rttt@mi3si.org
www.mi3si.org


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:31:46 -0500
From: "WALTER D. BEST" <WDBO39@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

I agree with John, but in addition to not allowing the water enough time to
sufficiently cool in the radiator, by not having a thermostat can also allow
the water to flow too quickly through the engine.  By having the water flow
too quickly through the engine you will not achieve a good heat transfer
from the engine to the water or coolant.

Most race cars have an electric water pump either hooked to a thermostat or
a switch.  They don't use a conventional  water pump because it does creat
some drag on the engine since it's normally being operated off the crank via
a belt.

Dave Best
http://davebest.topcities.com/


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:36:03 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl \(RTEC\)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK

Carparts ships to the UK, 17% VAT will be added, no 50%, no 30% no 20%
couponsm are available right now :(

I do have the airchargers on stock in Switzerland.

Roger
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Bart Kurek" <bart_kurek@eli.net>
An: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. März 2001 18:10
Betreff: Re: Team3S: K&N FIPK


> Will carparts ship to UK? If so wait until there's a deal. Check on
> www.importhookup.com for latest deals. With the 50% coupon I bought mine
at
> around $75.00. That is a good deal. ;) I don't think they do the 50% any
> more but they do I think up to 33%. Either way it's more of a savings than
> you are currently looking at. The instructions are in the box. No need for
> anything more. It's very straight forward. The only thing they don't
mention
> in the actual instructions is how much of a bitch it is to remove those
> little nuts that hold the ECU on. You can see some of my horror here...
> http://www.bart.kurek.com/photo/3000gt.htm Good luck. You'll like it.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:54:34 -0600
From: "Vineet Singh \(3S\)" <stealthtt@ecanfix.com>
Subject: RE:Team3S: Newbie temperature problems

Maybe now, the water is flowing too quickly to be cooled down enough
by the radiator? Maybe your water pump is "cavitating"? I would
install a new one, I'm sure you can get one mailed to you from someone
on the list, or through a vendor (connicelli, tallahassee, etc).

I'm not sure, but since no one else seemed to answer... that's my 2
cents.

Vinny Singh
http://www.kaizentuning.com/
http://manualcd.dsm.org/ - DSM & 3/S Service manuals on CDROM

>I need some help please! 2,000 miles ago, the
>thermostat of my '95 VR4 was broken. I couldn't get
>one here in south america so I decide to take it off
>and I continued using my car without any temperature
>problem for the last 2,000 miles, but yesterday, the
>temperature started to go higher and higher.
>I checked the water level in the jar and in the
>radiator and they are Ok. I also checked the radiator
>fans and they are working right.
>The water pump is not leaking.
>Can you please tell me what can be causing this
>problem.
>Thanks a lot.

>Raul Cinelli
>95 3000 GT VR4
>Argentina



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:10:44 +0000 (GMT+00:00)
From: John Stegall III <john.stegall@e247.com>
Subject: Team3S: Basics

All right list, I need some help, especially from you gurus, Roger, Bob, Matt (and anyone else I forgot -- those three just answer my questions most often).  My little brother recently purchased a 97 Eclipse GS-T Spyder and had a few questions about turbo cars.  I found myself shocked when I realized one question I could answer, but not give him any technical background on, and the other I really had no clue.

The first question he asked me was what is knock.  I was able to give him a basic definition of what knock is and a "laymans terms" of what causes it, but I really don't know any of the technical info on it.  Can any of you gurus give me the tech info behind knock - what it is and its results on the engine?

The second question he asked was about better gas mileage on turbo cars.  To give a basic example (one he gave me), is it better gas mileage to drive in fourth gear at 4000 RPM with the turbo(s) boosting -10 psi, or is it better in fifth gear at 2500 RPM with the turbo(s) boosting 0 psi?

Thanks in advance,

John
1994 3000GT VR-4

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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:27:04 -0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Basics

> The first question he asked me was what is knock.  I was able
> to give him a basic definition of what knock is and a
> "laymans terms" of what causes it, but I really don't know
> any of the technical info on it.  Can any of you gurus give
> me the tech info behind knock - what it is and its results on
> the engine?

Knock is usually a minor form of detonation, or pre-ignition.  Essentially
what happens is the mixture gets hot enough from compression that it ignites
on its own a bit early which causes cylinder pressure to build too soon,
sometimes before the piston is before top-dead-center which places high
stresses on the pistons, rings, connecting rods, etc.  Knock can be
controlled to some extent by retarding timing (which the ECU automatically
does) if the knock is not severe.  If it goes on uncontrolled (ie: boost
continues increasing, or intake temps increase, etc), it turns into
detonation which is the severe case of knock and carries a much higher
probability of piston damage.

The Eclipse motor is very resistant to knock and detonation, more-so than
the 3/S motors are.  If running an upgraded fuel pump and associated
free-flowing exhaust and intake you can run up to 18 psi of boost on most of
them without excessive knock.

> The second question he asked was about better gas mileage on
> turbo cars.  To give a basic example (one he gave me), is it
> better gas mileage to drive in fourth gear at 4000 RPM with
> the turbo(s) boosting -10 psi, or is it better in fifth gear
> at 2500 RPM with the turbo(s) boosting 0 psi?

That depends on a lot of factors.  Generally you want to see the highest
amount of vacuum at the lowest RPM.  Higher RPMs require more fuel, and less
vacuum means that the motor is consuming less air and therefore less fuel.
In your example, I'd guess that it is better to be in fifth gear at 2500 RPM
since just the raw rotation rate of the motor will consume 37% less fuel.
Those aren't "real" numbers that you gave though, as on an Eclipse cruising
is more like 3500 RPM vs. 2800 RPM in 4th / 5th gears (if I remember right)
and the vacuum numbers aren't that far apart.  Of course, if you are reading
off the stock dashboard "boost" gauge, that's a completely useless gauge for
measuring much of anything - same as it is on our 3/S cars.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:30:11 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basics

Use the Team3S Search Page for *dozens* of discussions about "knock".

Use the Team3S FAQ page to read Roger's "Treatise on Knock".  (Under
'Engines')

Use Roger's home page for even more:  www.rtec.ch

Best, (from a NON-guru),

Forrest
www.Team3S.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stegall III" <john.stegall@e247.com>
> All right list, I need some help, especially from you gurus, Roger,
Bob, Matt (and anyone else I forgot -- those three just answer my
questions most often).  My little brother recently purchased a 97
Eclipse GS-T Spyder and had a few questions about turbo cars.  I found
myself shocked when I realized one question I could answer, but not give
him any technical background on, and the other I really had no clue.
>
> The first question he asked me was what is knock.  I was able to give
him a basic definition of what knock is and a "laymans terms" of what
causes it, but I really don't know any of the technical info on it.  Can
any of you gurus give me the tech info behind knock - what it is and its
results on the engine?
>
> The second question he asked was about better gas mileage on turbo
cars.  To give a basic example (one he gave me), is it better gas
mileage to drive in fourth gear at 4000 RPM with the turbo(s)
boosting -10 psi, or is it better in fifth gear at 2500 RPM with the
turbo(s) boosting 0 psi?




***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:58:12 -0500
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basics

Matt (and all)

You are quite close with your theory, but off on one point.  I am working on a
project that takes advantage of this part of engine theory, and can contribute
here.
You said that max vacuum would be the ideal fuel efficiency point.  I agree that
that the least amount of air consumes the least amount of fuel, however max
vacuum is not true.  Actually, vacuum is a force that the engine creates, and in
doing so does work.  This work is a very large drag force on the engine, and
sacrafices efficiency.  The best efficiency is actually when the engine is
operating at minimum vacuum, or closest to WOT.  Now DON'T take this to mean
that WOT is the best way to get efficiency (legal disclaimer), but that is the
effect.  Think of a Geo Metro or other 4-cylinder - still doing the same work to
push the car x speed, but the throttle has to be more open to get there.  This
amounts to less engine drag, and more efficiency.  We're talking 10-15%
efficiency with that drag alone.  *sigh* That's enough for tonight, I hope
there's more discussion on this!! =)

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT
Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
Delphi Automotive - Design Engineer

"Jannusch, Matt" wrote:

> > The first question he asked me was what is knock.  I was able
> > to give him a basic definition of what knock is and a
> > "laymans terms" of what causes it, but I really don't know
> > any of the technical info on it.  Can any of you gurus give
> > me the tech info behind knock - what it is and its results on
> > the engine?
>
> Knock is usually a minor form of detonation, or pre-ignition.  Essentially
> what happens is the mixture gets hot enough from compression that it ignites
> on its own a bit early which causes cylinder pressure to build too soon,
> sometimes before the piston is before top-dead-center which places high
> stresses on the pistons, rings, connecting rods, etc.  Knock can be
> controlled to some extent by retarding timing (which the ECU automatically
> does) if the knock is not severe.  If it goes on uncontrolled (ie: boost
> continues increasing, or intake temps increase, etc), it turns into
> detonation which is the severe case of knock and carries a much higher
> probability of piston damage.
>
> The Eclipse motor is very resistant to knock and detonation, more-so than
> the 3/S motors are.  If running an upgraded fuel pump and associated
> free-flowing exhaust and intake you can run up to 18 psi of boost on most of
> them without excessive knock.
>
> > The second question he asked was about better gas mileage on
> > turbo cars.  To give a basic example (one he gave me), is it
> > better gas mileage to drive in fourth gear at 4000 RPM with
> > the turbo(s) boosting -10 psi, or is it better in fifth gear
> > at 2500 RPM with the turbo(s) boosting 0 psi?
>
> That depends on a lot of factors.  Generally you want to see the highest
> amount of vacuum at the lowest RPM.  Higher RPMs require more fuel, and less
> vacuum means that the motor is consuming less air and therefore less fuel.
> In your example, I'd guess that it is better to be in fifth gear at 2500 RPM
> since just the raw rotation rate of the motor will consume 37% less fuel.
> Those aren't "real" numbers that you gave though, as on an Eclipse cruising
> is more like 3500 RPM vs. 2800 RPM in 4th / 5th gears (if I remember right)
> and the vacuum numbers aren't that far apart.  Of course, if you are reading
> off the stock dashboard "boost" gauge, that's a completely useless gauge for
> measuring much of anything - same as it is on our 3/S cars.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


_________________________________________________________
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:09:25 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Basics

In other words - you are trying to say that like a transmission - there is
an initial power loss through the internals of the engine, and with vacuum
the loss can be more - so a car making more than idle type power will have a
better efficiency per volume of fuel to output HP.  But this is also just
engine efficiency - we also need to mention that we are talking about fuel
economy and wind resistance and such...  Conserving as much gas - not trying
to get the most HP per volume fuel.

Maybe thats why those smaller engine cars have some higher gas milage
ratings - cause they have to use more of their available power output,
therefore being closer to the optimum engine speed for the most efficient hp
to fuel ratio.

At what point does the engine start losing efficiency - At what RPM that
is???
Am I making sense???

- -Cody


#Matt (and all)
#
#You are quite close with your theory, but off on one point.  I am
#working on a
#project that takes advantage of this part of engine theory, and
#can contribute
#here.
#You said that max vacuum would be the ideal fuel efficiency point.
# I agree that
#that the least amount of air consumes the least amount of fuel, however max
#vacuum is not true.  Actually, vacuum is a force that the engine
#creates, and in
#doing so does work.  This work is a very large drag force on the
#engine, and
#sacrafices efficiency.  The best efficiency is actually when the engine is
#operating at minimum vacuum, or closest to WOT.  Now DON'T take
#this to mean
#that WOT is the best way to get efficiency (legal disclaimer), but
#that is the
#effect.  Think of a Geo Metro or other 4-cylinder - still doing
#the same work to
#push the car x speed, but the throttle has to be more open to get
#there.  This
#amounts to less engine drag, and more efficiency.  We're talking 10-15%
#efficiency with that drag alone.  *sigh* That's enough for tonight, I hope
#there's more discussion on this!! =)


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 21:53:08 -0800
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Team3S: Camber/castor adjustment plate opinions?

Can anybody out there give me opinions of front camber or camber/castor
adjusment plates?  Is anyone using the Tein or Cusco plates?  I remember a
long time ago that the old Ground Control units had problems with the
bearings wearing out quickly causing rattling.  I know GC has new
camber/castor plates but they only work with the GC spring kit.  I have the
Eibach Pro-Kit springs and don't really want to replace them, so I'm
interested if anyone is using the Tein or Cusco plates.

Thanks,
Ken


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