team3s
Thursday, December 14
2000 Volume 01 :
Number
351
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:13:09 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Underdrive pulley(s)
Travis,
Time and Time
Again.
Please search the archives on this (
www.team3s.com)
I will summarize
everything though. It has been hashed and rehashed a
million times over
on both this list and the Starnet Lists.
UnderDrive Pulleys (without a
harmonic balancer)
- May be extremely dangerous to your engine - the
underdrive pulleys that
unorthodox racing sells are not harmonic
balancers. Meaning - your engine
may do things its not supposed
to. Such as spin crank bearings.
- Will Spin all your accessories
slower. (if they were meant to be spun
slower, don't you think they woulda
done it from the factory that way?)
- Will give you on the order of 5
HP - yes I said 5.
- Are illegal for use in drag racing
applications
Also - there is a real underdrive harmonic dampener made for
our cars now -
www.buschurracing.comOur engines
are designed with harmonic balancers. I will quote somethign I
pulled
from the arhives:
Jack T (xwing) wrote:
I would not get one.
Though they are a PULLEY, they are not any longer
HARMONIC DAMPENERS.
The original purpose of that heavy disc on the
front of all car engines is as
a harmonic dampener; Mitsu just added a
serpentine belt pulley on its outside
aspect as a space-saving effort,
so it does 2 functions at once. The
original and more important
function is still dampening crankshaft
harmonics.
A crank is a long, rigid metal shape; if you tap with a hammer
it
"rings" (especially forged cranks; cast cranks have some
internal
dampening). So what? Well, a hammer hitting it is only
ONE way to
cause the crank to RESONATE and exhibit harmonic VIBRATIONS.
Another
way is to RUN the engine! The engine is a vibration factory (as
we all
know)...and if left undamped, crank harmonics can build up at
certain
(harmonic) rpms and these vibrations DON'T just disappear, they have
to
be DISSIPATED! The best way to dissipate them is via
the
SPECIFICALLY-DESIGNED-TO-DO-THIS "Harmonic Dampener" hanging off
the
front of the crank. It has an elastomeric (rubber) isolator between
the
hub and the HEAVY outer ring, and is as a unit, designed to
damp
harmonics at the critical frequencies seen by the crank.
The
heavier the outer ring, the better it damps, and the higher its
efficiency at
damping. NASCAR LONGtrack engines use HEAVY dampeners, to
allow the
bearings to live the long race length; the shorter the race,
the more often
the bearings get changed (after EVERY RACE), the LIGHTER
a dampener can be
used because lighter is a little faster to accelerate
the engine due to lower
rotational inertia. You are trading
bearing/crank life for speed.
Where do YOU want to go on this? Are you
lucky?
The OTHER way to
damp harmonic energy (which MUST GO SOMEWHERE) is
through the main bearings,
into the main bearing saddles on the BLOCK.
This can cause premature
wear/fatigue/flaking of main bearings, and
cracks in the main bearing saddles
on the block. This is a poor
tradeoff for "an underdrive
pulley".
Does this ALWAYS happen? No. Some people may not
push their cars very
hard very often; some may not do longtrack racing; some
may not keep
their cars long enough to discover the bearing wear, or to
crack
anything; the underlying design may be robust enough to cover over
this
MISTAKE in parts selection. There is a pretty big industry in
harmonic
dampeners, different TECHNIQUES for dampening (Fluidampr, ATI, BHJ,
"The
Rattler", etc) but they ALL DAMPEN HARMONICS because it is
important.
There may be some FREQUENTLY REBUILT race engines (?CART) that are
not
using dampeners but IF you think their ENGINEERS have not taken
crank
harmonics into account in their multi-multimillion dollar engine
design,
THEN there are worthless bridges to be sold to you...and
foolish
pennywise-pound foolish _NON DAMPENING_ "PULLEYS" to be
sold.
As a person who comes to the hobby from an enginebuilder's
standpoint
(not sales/driver/etc) this misinformation about "you don't need
a
dampener" or when that fails "our unorthodox pulley does the same
thing"
is sad. It gets down to this. Do ya feel lucky?
Well, do ya...?
[Clint would say "punk" but that isn't my direction, just a
good line
:) ] This is an insult to your engine's health.
It MAY take it in
stride; but it is an offense. I respect my
hardworking engine too much
to burden it with the sometimes insane levels of
harmonics that can
occur without harmonic dampener protection. Where
else are you going to
cut corners? What other basic enginebuilding good
practices is one
going to spit on, and WHICH will be the straw that breaks
the camel's
back...eventually?
Jack Tertadian
This is a hotbutton
issue with me. I never thought having a harmonic
dampener would be
considered "conservative enginebuilding" by
some...geez.
ps if anyone
is interested in a REAL HARMONIC DAMPENER with underdrive
for our cars, I am
looking into having some made, because NHRA rules
require an SFI-approved
harmonic balancer for cars going into the 11's.
With all the IDRA etc drag
groups out there using NHRA tracks, better to
be legal BEFORE someone
challenges it/you and disqualifies you...
/end quote
Roger Gerl
Wrote:
I once played with such pulley on the Camaro and some of us really
saw a
gain ... 2-5hp. This is within any tolerances on the dyno and of a
few
degrees on the ambient. The drawback is now a much harder steering for
daily
driving, dimming lights during idleing and slowing down fans at idle
as
well.
/end quote
Matt Wrote:
The Buschur pulleys
contain a torsional damper assembly (essentially a
section of rubber
connecting the two halves of the pulley). This allows the
pulley to act
as a damper against the harmonic vibrations in the crankshaft
caused by the
cylinders firing. It is very important to keep the harmonics
damped in
some fashion to prevent bearing damage. Of course, the Unorthodox
folks
will say that the accessories provide this damping, which is
completely false
as a counterweight is required to perform the damping
action. The
counterweight is supplied by the rubber section allowing the
pulley to twist
and let the inertia of the outer pulley ring counteract the
torsional flex of
the crank.
/end quote
Anyway... jsut search the archives - you
will find some positive quotes as
well on the underdrive pulley, but i would
stay away from them, especially
for 5 HP, maybe 10... It's just not
worth it... NOS is easier on an engine
than an UDP without a harmonic
balancer...
- -Cody
#-----Original Message-----
#From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st#[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of
#ukyo@speedfactory.net#Sent:
Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:25 AM
#To:
team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st#Subject:
Team3S: Underdrive pulley(s)
#
#
#I am looking to get some underdrive
pulleys for my SOHC 3000GT.
#Problem is the only model I have found
(Unorthodox Ultra S) is listed
#as only for the DOHC engine. Am I wrong
in thinking the pulley will
#still work? The only difference in the
engines is the cams, right?
#If so, that should have no bearing on the
pulley? I'd like to go
#ahead with this mod as they claim a ~2.5 HP
gain per each pound lost.
# The conversion chart on Unorthodox's page says I
will lose right at
#6 lbs. If the calculations are even close to
correct I stand to gain
#between 12 - 15 HP from this bolt on. If it'll
work, I really want
#to do it.
#
#Unorthodox lists the part as working
on all 92-99 3000GTs, but every
#retailer I have looked at has only listed
them as for the DOHC. I
#don't want to waste ~$200 if it will not
work. Any help or opinions
#will be appreciated. Thanks in
advance.
#
#--Travis
#'97 3000GT (Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator
Bottle / Red)
#
#*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
#
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:20:43
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Heated seats
Haha - where do you live?
I found heated
seats in my Lexus only got annoying after a while...
Unless its like
freezing where you live, and you want to warm the seats upo
before you
actually sit on them....
Anyway, sorry I have no info on the upgrade (I'm
sure you could find a
wrecked car and transplant just the heating elements
for cheap), but I don't
honestly think it would be worth it...
-
-Cody
#Has anyone modif
ied their seats to be heated (generally only
on leather and
#not cloth seats). My wife's New Beetle has upstaged me
and I need to get
#back in the lead.
#
#I'm not sure if this is ever an
aftermarket add-on.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:46:26
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Steerin wheel..
Geoff
On my invoice it reads ---Hub 6104 Hub
dodge stealth.
The problem I had was getting the damn thing --- slow
boat
from Italy [ 4 months ].
If you have trouble finding it locally drop me a
line , I had
the name of a guy who got his from a shop back east and
I
could probably find it again.
Jim Berry
========================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Jim Berry <
fastmax@home.com>
> What adapter
do I want from MOMO if I dont have any of the stock hardware
> concerns
you have.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Jim
Berry wrote:
>
> > The outside diameter is a shade over 15" or
380mm ---- I just installed the Momo
> > Apache which is 13.3 or 340mm,
I love it. The smaller diameter and flattened
> > bottom allow for
better feel, easier entrance/exit and more freedom while driving.
> >
Of course being 6' 3", these things are important to me.
> >
> > For those who care, I made a hybrid hub --- Momo/stock combo which
allowed me
> > to salvage the clock spring so I could reinstall the
cruse control [ required for me ]
> > and the radio controls if I want,
I also installed a scramble boost button on the wheel.
> > I
extended the wheel out about 1" which gives me a better position when I drive
with
> > the seat all the way back.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:55:18
EST
From:
DKoenigs@aol.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Heated seats
I know they are available as an aftermarket
item. I have seen local ads on
TV for this addition from places that
do other upgrades such as remote
keyless entry, security systems, and remote
starting systems. Sorry, but
since I was not intersted I didn't pay
any attention to prices. The add just
caught my eye as I was surprized
to se this available as an aftermarket item.
Don
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:58:06
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Jim - Steering wheel
Roger
No pictures yet, I'll try to get some
today and forward them to you.
the scramble boost is a function of the
AVCR boost controller, it
allows you to temporarily alter boost levels, eg.
increase the boost
limit for 30 seconds so you can dust the Cobra in the next
lane.
Jim
Berry
========================================
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: Roger J. Roskam <
roger.roskam@home.com>
To: Team3S
<
team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> For those who care, I made a hybrid hub --- Momo/stock combo which
allowed
> me
> > to salvage the clock spring so I could reinstall
the cruse control [
> required for me ]
>
> Jim:
>
> Got any pictures? The cruise control interests me - I haven't
gone to an
> aftermarket wheel for that reason (and the big ugly hub left
behind). I
> would love to see your solution...
>
>
BTW, what's a scramble boost button?
>
> Roger Roskam
> 91
Indy Stealth RT/TT
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:59:33
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Heated seats
Thanks Don and Cody. I live in Pittsburgh,
PA with in-laws in Erie, PA and
I miss them from other cars I've had.
Right ... back to the technical data
to conform to the rules ...
I
have not decided if a toggle button (on/off) would work or a
temperature
switch (ala New Beetle, Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Lexus) where
you can dial
the heat. The latter is obviously a bit trickier. I
will poke around for
aftermarket places. Just the hope of knowing it is
out there is good enough
for me.
Thanks everyone.
-
--Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom spark
plug
plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg-
-----Original Message-----
From:
DKoenigs@aol.com [
mailto:DKoenigs@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
December 13, 2000 10:55 AM
To:
DSchilberg@freemarkets.comCc:
Team3S (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Heated seats
I know they are
available as an aftermarket item. I have seen local ads on
TV for this
addition from places that do other upgrades such as remote
keyless entry,
security systems, and remote starting systems. Sorry, but
since I was
not intersted I didn't pay any attention to prices. The add
just
caught my eye as I was surprized to se this available as an
aftermarket
item.
Don
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:07:03
-0800
From: "Jim Berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Hatch Lid Leak
I have the same problem ---- The trim strip at the base of
the rear hatch
window has clips which go through to the inside. I
put silicon seal on
the clips but now I see that I still have a leak so
I did it wrong or did it to
the wrong thing. Back to the drawing board ---
drop me a line if you get
the
solution.
Jim
Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: john adams <
johnqadamsiii@yahoo.com>
To:
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:27 PM
Subject: Team3S: Hatch Lid
Leak
> Hello,
>
> I have a small leaky
situation, which is pretty obvious after a short rain
> and upon opening
the hatch lid. As i raise it the water rushes down and
> pours out the
upper corners.
> Now, im smart enough to know that the water sloshing
around into the
> interior isnt good, so i was wondering if this condition
occurs very often
> or not ( i >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:14:32
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rotors and Brake pads opinion - a minor brake upgrade.
My
personal, trouble-free experience with PowerStop rotors, Metal
Master pads,
and SMC lines is probably not too helpful for you, I
rarely go past 100 mph
and don't use the car on the track (other than
1/4 mile). But you may find
some interesting info and links on my
Brake Upgrade web page. Axxis (metal
matrix), Brembo (metal matrix),
KVR (carbon fiber), AP Racing (carbon
metallic), and Porterfield
(carbon Kevlar) all make replacement pads for our
cars. Maybe Pagid
also?
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htmThe
GReddy Type-S BOV with the GT-Pro adapter is a direct fit, fairly
quiet, and
adjustable. Some pics are at the link below. You will
probably have to tie it
up out of the way to avoid interference with
your 6-spd gear shift brackets
and cables.
http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius/2-BOV1.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
To: "Team 3S
International" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:59 PM
Subject: Team3S: Rotors and Brake pads
opinion - a minor brake
upgrade.
Hello everyone,
With my
rotors and pads at the end of their useful lives, I am
considering an
upgrade. My 94 TT is my daily driver, and will
probably never (or
hopefully seldom) be used on the track, however, I
would like to have better
than stock brakes. I have had a few
instances in which I had brake
fades at critical moments, and believe
me, its no FUN.
I don't
want to go all out with the $1500 and up kits, however I am
willing to pay
$500 ~ $800 or so for a better setup. I have pretty
much made up my
mind in buying Porterfield Cryogenically treated
Slotted rotors. They
are advertised for $370 for the front pair,
however, with the 20% 3SI list
discount, it comes out to $296. What
do you guys think about
them? Could I possibly get some bigger
rotors without having to upgrade
anything else, or what other
suggestions do you guys have for something in
this price range???
My next thing was the pads. Ken Middaugh
recommended KFP race pads
due to their great ability to stop the car very
well, although they
dust a lot. I want the power to be able to break from any
speed my
car is capable of doing, and perhaps not only once. I don't do
road
courses, however, I do play on the highway with other sporty cars
and
get up in the 150 mph on a regular basis. I have never had to
slam
on the brakes at those speeds, but there were plenty of time that
I
had to do 120 - 80 mph stops repeatedly. Ken said that these
racing
pads are great because they don't squeak while cold, grip
immediately
even if cold, resist fade well, but they dust a lot and don't
last a
long time. They also cost about $140 for the fronts. This
all
sounds ideal, except for the dusting and longevity. If anyone else
has
other ideas, I would appreciate some input on what some of you
have and how
you like them. By the way, I also considered
Porterfield's pads, R4,
RS4, R4E, but I don't know the difference
between them, so your input is
highly recommended for my type of
application.
I also wanted to
upgrade to braided steel lines. I know I could get
them from Carparts
for $130, however, Porterfield said they can make
them for about $100, and
after the discount, they come out to $80.
It sounds like a good deal to me,
as long as their quality would not
be any less than what I would find at
Carparts.
One last thing: I, as well as my brother, also
need to upgrade our
BOV valves. For me, I don't care if it makes noise,
I just want it
to hold as much boost as possible in case I decide to do
more
upgrades later. For my brother, he want one as quiet as possible.
Neither of us are mechanics, so we would prefer a bolt on. What
do
you guys recommend, besides the 1G DSM one.
Thanks for
listening, and hope to hear from some of you.
John Raicu
94 Yellow
TT
Apexi AVC-R, K&N, Autometer Boost Gauge, Greddy EGT Gauge
&
Mike
95 Red VR-4
Apexi AVC-R, K&N, Autometer Boost Gauge, Greddy
EGT Gauge
__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:56:48
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Hello
Hi all. I'm new here. I'm picking up a black 95 VR-4 on
Monday. Can't wait.
I've been making a list of what to check out on it when I
accept the car.
Any input from the list would be appreciated.
Also,
will 16" wheels fit on this car or is 17" the smallest? The car is
coming
with the 18" and I'm buying snow tires immediately. If 16" won't fit,
is it
because of the brakes? The 16" snow tires are much cheaper than either
the 17
or 18"...
Paul/.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:06:27
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hello
At 09:56 AM 12/13/00 -0700, Desert Fox wrote:
>Hi
all. I'm new here. I'm picking up a black 95 VR-4 on Monday. Can't
wait.
>I've been making a list of what to check out on it when I accept
the car.
>Any input from the list would be appreciated.
Welcome
aboard. You are buying a magnificent car.
Before you pick up your VR4,
make sure it does not have a bad 1-2 synchro.
If you hear a grind on shifting
1-2 or 3-2, that's a $3,000 repair. Better
buy it with a warranty, because
the syncros often go out at about 60,000 miles
If you are near 60,000
miles, it will need a timing belt replacement ($600
at the dealer). Replace
the water pump while you are in there, cause it is
timed to break two weeks
after you change the timing belt, and it costs
another $600 to go back in.
Sometimes the dealer will take care of this for
you before purchase. Ask for
documentation that it has been done.
Too many new buyers never know
these things and suffer greatly afterward.
>
>Also, will 16" wheels
fit on this car or is 17" the smallest?
Nope. In fact, not all 17 in.
wheels will fit. You must get 94+ 17 in. or
18 in. wheels. Mitsu changed the
brake calipers in 94, and only 94+ will
fit over them.
Rich/old
poop/94 VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:07:09
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hello (winter tires)
>Also, will 16" wheels fit on this
car or is 17" the smallest?
Yes, 17" is the smallest. 235/45-17 are a
great comprimise in snow, water
and dry road.
>If 16" won't fit,is
it because of the brakes?
Yes
> The 16" snow tires are
much cheaper than either
>the 17 or 18"...
Yes, but if you want to
go the cheap way, the car is not really the right
choice !!!
Have fun
with your new car :-)
Roger, Switzerland
93'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:19:27
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Hello
The car is at 75K miles. The 60K has been done. The only
thing I've seen
wrong with the car is wear on the drivers seat. I'll be
shifting into 2nd on
Monday...
When I saw snow tire prices for 17" vs
18", there seemed to only be one
choice for 18" and they were cheaper? How
can that be?
- --
Paul/.
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
on 12/13/00 10:06, Merritt at
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
scribbled:
> At 09:56 AM 12/13/00 -0700, Desert Fox wrote:
>>
Hi all. I'm new here. I'm picking up a black 95 VR-4 on Monday. Can't
wait.
>> I've been making a list of what to check out on it when I
accept the car.
>> Any input from the list would be
appreciated.
>
> Welcome aboard. You are buying a magnificent
car.
>
> Before you pick up your VR4, make sure it does not have a
bad 1-2 synchro.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:36:52
-0500
From: "brandon thomas" <
a3kgtlvr@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: engine fire please help!
Today when I when I got home from
playing in the snow I noticed smoke coming
from my engine bay. I looked
underneath the hood and my motor is on fire. I
quickly put out the flame but
it was to late, the motor had squirted oil
everywhere. I think it pumped the
pan dry. Here is my problem I heard a
knock when I first started it up but
then it went away. I just spent $7000
dollars building up the engine 5000
miles ago. This car is going to be my
daily drive all through my next 8
years of college. I just got done talking
to my insurance angent and
she said that all engine damage will be covered
by my insurance. What should
I do? Should I completly rebuild the engine
again, I will definatley claim
the front turbo since it was on fire but what
else. Dumb question but
if I dont rebuild the motor will the engine be less
reliable. Please
help I really don't know what to do!!
Brandon Thomas
1992
vr4
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:43:34
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Hello
Paul,
I have not found ANY 18" snow
tires that I like. The largest I found
were Bridgestone Blizzaks LM-22
which are 245/40/17. There is a Dunlop and
a Pirelli in an 18". I
fortunately have 17" rims for the winter so I didn't
need to go down this
avenue (thanks, Merritt).
Other Blizzaks are the MZ-01 and MZ-02
(and the older WS-15 and WS-50)
but the MZ-01 is the only one that goes up to
17" to fit your car since you
have 94+ brakes.
The MZ-01 is
not in inventory anywhere (I've checked Tirerack, Discount
Tire, etc.) but
they do have the LM-22 which is what I am going to try for.
Let
me tell you that the street tires on a 4,000 pound car do not make
for
comfortable driving in snow and ice.
Nevertheless, welcome to the club
and nice to see another Black 1995 VR-4 in
the family.
-
--Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ 50k, K&N FIPK, Magnecor 8.5 wires, and a custom
spark
plug plate
http://www.ec3s.org/images/members/flash001full.jpg-
-----Original Message-----
From: Desert Fox [
mailto:bigfoot@simmgene.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, December 13, 2000 12:19 PM
To: Merritt
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Hello
The car is at 75K miles. The 60K has been done. The
only thing I've seen
wrong with the car is wear on the drivers seat. I'll be
shifting into 2nd on
Monday...
When I saw snow tire prices for 17" vs
18", there seemed to only be one
choice for 18" and they were cheaper? How
can that be?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:54:23
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: engine fire please help!
If the insurance is going to cover
everything, go for it all...
Front Turbo, Rear Turbo, Engine Replacement,
anything that was even remotely
touched by fire, including all rubber lines,
belts, wiring harnesses, etc.
I am guessing the oil line off the front
turbo broke / came loose /
whatever. Regardless, anything that got that
hot has the possibility of
being damaged - including warped heads, etc.
etc... Engines don't get
nearly as hot, depending upon where the fire
really was. An overheated car
can easily warp a head at under 500
degrees, whereas fire can reach much
hotter.
If you do choose to
rebuild the engine, might as well upgrade at the same
time
though.
Option - rebuild engine or get new engine. Do not settle
for less.
- -Cody
#-----Original Message-----
#From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st#[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of brandon thomas
#Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 12:37 PM
#To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st#Subject:
Team3S: engine fire please help!
#
#
#Today when I when I got home from
playing in the snow I noticed
#smoke coming
#from my engine bay. I looked
underneath the hood and my motor is
#on fire. I
#quickly put out the flame
but it was to late, the motor had squirted oil
#everywhere. I think it pumped
the pan dry. Here is my problem I heard a
#knock when I first started it up
but then it went away. I just spent $7000
#dollars building up the engine
5000 miles ago. This car is going to be my
#daily drive all through my next 8
years of college. I just got
#done talking
#to my insurance angent
and she said that all engine damage will be covered
#by my insurance. What
should I do? Should I completly rebuild the engine
#again, I will definatley
claim the front turbo since it was on
#fire but what
#else. Dumb
question but if I dont rebuild the motor will the
#engine be
less
#reliable. Please help I really don't know what to
do!!
#
#Brandon Thomas
#1992
vr4
#___________________________________________________________________
#__________________
#Get
more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download
:
#http://explorer.msn.com
#
#
#*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
#
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:19:33
-0500
From: "brandon thomas" <
a3kgtlvr@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: engine fire please help!
When i was talking about reliablilty I
mean by runing the car dangerously
low on oil. Will this effect its
reliabilty if the engine is actually OK?
I know the reliabilty of
theese cars and that is why I have had mine
completly gone through. I have
had to many things fixed to list including
the tranny. I love this car
and will not trade it for anything even if it
cost me through college.
Thanks for your opinion anyways.
Thanks,
Brandon
Thomas
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get
more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:54:20
-0600
From: "Eric Cheek" <
echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Hello (Snow Tires)
Try some of the online tire shops, they
tend to cost a bit less on the ties,
although you will have to have some one
locally mount and balance the tires.
MY next tire order is coming from
http://www.discounttiredirect.com
and
another great place to look is
http://www.tirerack.comOn that note
has anyone ran the KUMHO Ecsta Supra 712's ?(245/45ZR-17) I
was luck enough
to get two nails in a tire on my new (to me) 92 VR4, so I
think I'll just
replace all 4 while I'm at it. Also what "sensors" can cause
the active
suspension to flash the "tour" light on the far left of the
cluster? I've
checked both wiring harnesses on the from struts, and looked
on the web site,
as well as many other web sites for this information. I was
told by the
previous owner that it might just be a sensor on one of the
wheels. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Eric C. 92 VR-4 (Stock 4 now)
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Desert Fox
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 11:19 AM
To:
Merritt
Cc:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Hello
The car is at 75K miles. The 60K has been done. The
only thing I've seen
wrong with the car is wear on the drivers seat. I'll be
shifting into 2nd on
Monday...
When I saw snow tire prices for 17" vs
18", there seemed to only be one
choice for 18" and they were cheaper? How
can that be?
- --
Paul/.
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
on 12/13/00 10:06, Merritt at
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
scribbled:
> At 09:56 AM 12/13/00 -0700, Desert Fox wrote:
>>
Hi all. I'm new here. I'm picking up a black 95 VR-4 on Monday.
Can't
wait.
>> I've been making a list of what to check out on it
when I accept the car.
>> Any input from the list would be
appreciated.
>
> Welcome aboard. You are buying a magnificent
car.
>
> Before you pick up your VR4, make sure it does not have a
bad 1-2 synchro.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:03:03
-0500
From: "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Hesitation ... still
Hi all,
I'm still having problems with my TT
R/T. Under full throttle the engine
will hesitate, detonate, and
basically just carry on. I had the thing to a
dealer that service the
timing belt after it let loose and as was before the
problem the car still
has this problem. The dealer put a scan tool on it
and didn't come up
with anything. No misfire codes or anything. Checked
the wires
and plugs and found nothing. Replaced the fuel filter with
no
results. Reset the ECU with no improvement.
Does anyone have
an idea of what it could be? I'm starting to think either
the
fuel injection is blocked somehow or something timing wise is fouled
up.
Michael Donnelly
94' R/T TT
62,000 miles in stock
trim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:57:21
-0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Hesitation ... still
Your timing could be off.. same thing
happened to me
after a shop put in a new timing belt.. it was off by
a
tooth.. hesitate like crazy in high boost..
Good Luck,
George
http://www.geocities.com/Amkreadgto/Hybrid.html-
--- "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com> wrote:
> Hi
all,
>
> I'm still having problems with my TT R/T.
Under
> full throttle the engine
> will hesitate, detonate, and
basically just carry
> on. I had the thing to a
> dealer that
service the timing belt after it let
> loose and as was before the
>
problem the car still has this problem. The dealer
> put a scan tool
on it
> and didn't come up with anything. No misfire codes
>
or anything. Checked
> the wires and plugs and found nothing.
Replaced the
> fuel filter with no
> results. Reset the ECU
with no improvement.
>
> Does anyone have an idea of what it could
be? I'm
> starting to think either
> the fuel injection
is blocked somehow or something
> timing wise is fouled up.
>
>
> Michael Donnelly
> 94' R/T TT
> 62,000 miles in
stock trim
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:00:03
-0600
From: "Greg S." <
wizards@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
engine fire please help!
Well Brandon, as much as I hate to suggest it
... you'd be better off trading it in and
getting something far more
economical and reliable. In the best of all worlds, any car
that is
already 9 years old will have lots of needed repairs if you drive it every
day
for the next eight years. And, the VR-4 is going to have more
repairs than an average
car and those repairs are going to be very expensive
.... especially once the car is 16
or 17 years old.
IF you insist on
keeping it (I can understand why), I'd recommend that you go buy a
cheap
beater escort or something to use for your daily driver and only drive
the VR-4 on nice
days or for a hot date or something.
Good
Luck.
Greg
brandon thomas wrote:
> When i was talking
about reliablilty I mean by runing the car dangerously
> low on oil.
Will this effect its reliabilty if the engine is actually OK?
> I know the
reliabilty of theese cars and that is why I have had mine
> completly gone
through. I have had to many things fixed to list including
> the
tranny. I love this car and will not trade it for anything even if
it
> cost me through college. Thanks for your opinion
anyways.
>
> Thanks,
> Brandon Thomas
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:15:25
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Hesitation ... still
Why can't the dealer hook this tool up
while you demonstrate the
problems at WOT? Not being familiar with the MUT
tool my question may
seem silly.
So the cause could be one or more of
the following.
- - timing advance
-- unlikely unless the ECU is
failing but possible
-- the belt/cams/crank are all alligned correctly
right?
- - fuel supply
-- one or more injectors running
poorly
-- poor voltage to the fuel pump when under boost/high fuel
line
pressure (bad ground, bad relay, corroded wires, weak battery,
etc.)
-- bad fuel pressure regulator so line pressure doesn't increase
to
match boost pressure
-- bad FPR solenoid could be reducing line
pressure through the FPR
-- tired fuel pump so can't keep up at high
line pressures
-- dirty fuel line filter
-- clogged fuel
lines
- - ignition
-- plugs (large gap, dirty, worn)
-- plug wires (shorts, leaks, RF interference)
-- coils
--
something else - I'm not that familiar with out ignition system
Hope this
helps some. This makes me thankful I have a 1st gen so I
can use the TMO for
monitoring and testing. A fuel pressure gauge
would help to verify fuel line
pressure. The service manual has a
more complete list of possible causes,
including: EGR always on, low
compression, high engine temp, clogged air
cleaner, vacuum leaks. I
don't think a pressure leak (leading to maybe rich
mixtures) wold
cause these symptoms.
Good luck,
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
To: <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:03 PM
Subject: Team3S: Hesitation ...
still
Hi all,
I'm still having problems with my TT R/T.
Under full throttle the
engine will hesitate, detonate, and basically just
carry on. I had
the thing to a dealer that service the timing belt
after it let loose
and as was before the problem the car still has this
problem. The
dealer put a scan tool on it and didn't come up with
anything. No
misfire codes or anything. Checked the wires and
plugs and found
nothing. Replaced the fuel filter with no
results. Reset the ECU
with no improvement.
Does anyone have an
idea of what it could be? I'm starting to think
either the fuel
injection is blocked somehow or something timing wise
is fouled
up.
Michael Donnelly
94' R/T TT
62,000 miles in stock
trim
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:12:30
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Winter beater
>IF you insist on keeping it (I can
understand why), I'd recommend that you
go buy a cheap
>beater escort
or something to use for your daily driver and only drive the
VR-4 on
nice
>days or for a hot date or something.
>
Good advice.
My
94 VR4 sits snug in its warm garage whilst my 92 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
turbo
bears the brunt of the Winter snow. It's like driving a little
brother of the
big car, except that the Talon has much more
rear-wheel-drive bias. It's
almost like driving a RWD car, except that the
front wheels work
too.
For $2200, it has proven to be a helluva beater. I am slowly
working my
way through all the needed repairs (timing belt on Friday), and
then I plan
to turn it into a Pro rally car.
If you are looking for a
good beater, ya can't beat a Talon/Eclipse with
the AWD turbo. It's almost
like driving the Real Thing.
\
Rich/old poop
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:13:29
-0800
From: "Browne, Troy E" <
troy.e.browne@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Clutch Questions
Hi Guys,
I have recently rebuilt my
engine with ross pistons, pauter rods, port&
polished heads, and 357
turbos. Also have alamo downpipe, HKS exhaust,
ARC2, HKS intercoolers,
720cc inj, and apexi boost controller. The car
should put out well over
550hp on race gas.
My question is this: I currently have a brand
new RPS stage2 clutch and
I'm am wondering if I need to exchange it to a
stage3. The stage2 is
supposed
to be good for up to 600hp and the
stage3 up to 700hp. I'd like to go to
the
stage3 but have heard
they are chattery(sp?). Have any of you used the
stage3,
and if so,
how do you like it? I know Jack T. has one and likes it but I
haven't
seen anybody else post much on one. I don't generally dump the
clutch but
would like to be able to launch agressively without losing the
clutch as
I've
already burned up two of them. (on the only 2 times
I've tried to launch at
over
3k rpms)
Thanks for any inputs
Troy
96 Spyder VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:08:52
-0500
From: "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
Hesitation ... still
Why can't the dealer hook this tool up while you
demonstrate the
problems at WOT? Not being familiar with the MUT tool my
question
may
seem silly. I'm not that familiar with it either, but I
think that
unless the car is accelerating under load and not in neutral the
problem
will not happen.
So the cause could be one or
more of the following.
- timing advance
-- unlikely unless the
ECU is failing but possible maybe
-- the belt/cams/crank
are all aligned correctly right? Right, the
problem started about a week
after I bought the car and 3 weeks after that
the belt broke due to the water
pump seizing. Now that it's fixed, the
problem persists
-
fuel supply
-- one or more injectors running poorly maybe
-- poor voltage to the fuel pump when under boost/high fuel line
pressure
(bad ground, bad relay, corroded wires, weak battery, etc.)
maybe, a check of
the voltage coming to the pump is definitely in order.
-- bad
fuel pressure regulator so line pressure doesn't increase
to
match boost
pressure That almost feels like the problem, maybe a
check of the fuel
pressure under hard acceleration would show this?
However, I don't believe
the problem will happen when the engine is
accelerating in neutral, only when
the engine is accelerated under strain.
-- bad FPR solenoid could
be reducing line pressure through the
FPR that goes hand in hand with
the previous possibility but would the scan
tool show codes that reveal these
problems of low fuel pressure? I don't
know myself.
--
tired fuel pump so can't keep up at high line pressures would
that be the
case at 62000 miles?
-- dirty fuel line filter fuel filter was
replaced today.
-- clogged fuel lines maybe, but that doesn't
sound too likely
- ignition
-- plugs (large gap, dirty,
worn) checked today, seem OK
-- plug wires (shorts, leaks, RF
interference) checked today,
checked out
-- coils That could be,
but wouldn't the scan tool detect this?
-- something else - I'm not
that familiar with out ignition system
???
Hope this helps some. This
makes me thankful I have a 1st gen so I
can use the TMO for monitoring and
testing. A fuel pressure gauge
would help to verify fuel line pressure. The
service manual has a
more complete list of possible causes, including: EGR
always on, low
compression, high engine temp, clogged air cleaner, vacuum
leaks. I
don't think a pressure leak (leading to maybe rich mixtures)
wold
cause these symptoms.
Good luck,
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.comThanks for
the feed back,
Michael Donnelly
94' R/T TT
62,000 miles in
stock trim
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:28:12
-0700
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Snow tires
Well, I went with what I could get. Mille Miglia
Spider 17" wheels with
Pirelli Winter 210 from Tire Rack. Should be here next
week sometime. I'd
rather spend the money on the snow tires than repair jobs
from sliding into
the ditch with summer rubber.
- --
Paul/., 95
black VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:39:16
-0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: Hesitation ... still
From your answer I assume the dealer
scan tool can only be used in
the "garage". Too bad they don't have something
that will work with
the car on the road. The TMO is looking better and
better. :)
Well you could hook up some wires and a meter and have a
friend
*carefully* measure voltage to the pump with the access cover off
as
you drive. The dealer has an adapter than connects to the fuel rail
for
pressure testing. This could possibly be modified (1/8 female NPT
added for
connection to your pressure sensor) to check fuel line
pressure from the
inside of the car as you drive. On the other hand
you could just "brute force
it" and start swapping out components
(FPR, fuel pump, injectors) to see if
the problem gets fixed.
Jeff Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Donnelly, Michael" <
DonnellM@ctc.com>
To: <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:08 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: Hesitation ...
still
> Why can't the dealer hook this tool up while
> you
demonstrate the problems at WOT? Not
> being familiar with the MUT tool
my question
> may seem silly.
I'm not that familiar with it
either, but I think that
unless the car is accelerating under load and not in
neutral the
problem will not happen.
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:21:10
EST
From:
Sportsmobile101@aol.comSubject:
Team3S: Front end question.
Hello everyone, i had an accident the
other day, unfortunately my front end got pretty messed up. Does anyone
know where i can buy an after market front end(bumper assembly), for a 92 SL, or
does anyone have a used one that they are willing to sell? Are there any
body kits that are available for these cars? Thanx in
advance.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 21:35:50
-0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
Rotors and Brake pads opinion - a minor brake
upgrade.
THANKS,
Thanks to Ken Middaugh, Jeff Lucius, and Walter
Best for answering the break
related questions. As always, when my
brother will finally get them, I will
send a final e-mail out to the list
with a breakdown of prices and sources
for everything.
- -MIKE-
aa2345@wayne.edu95 Red VR4
John,
brother
iraicu@cs.wayne.edu94 Pearl Yellow
TT
Detroit Metro Area, Michigan
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:47:09
-0600
From: Merritt <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbocharging a Fiero? Talon?
It's 1:45 in the morning, and I
just dreamed up a lulu whilst logging books
onto our web site.
I am
in the process of upgrading my Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 twin turbo.
I have a set
of Alamo intercoolers to go on this winter, and next year I
will go to 15G
turbochargers (lots of other mods too, but these are the
only ones that count
for this topic).
So I'll have a set of stock dual intercoolers and dual
turbos left over.
Hate to see them go to waste (sorry about that).
My
son has a 3.X liter 1988 V6 Fiero. I have a 3.0 liter Mitsubishi V6.
Seems
pretty close.
Why couldn't I take the intercoolers and turbos from the
Mitsu and install
them on the Fiero?
I figger if I keep the boost to 6
psi, it wouldn't hurt the tired old Fiero
engine too much.
When the old
engine finally blows, we'll rebuild it with lower compression
pistons to take
the full 15 psi.
Opinons?
If this doesn't work, where else could
I stick the turbos? How about on my
92 Eagle Talon TSi? It's already
turbocharged, so wouldn't it be easy to
replace the stock turbo with two
sequential turbos and two intercoolers? Or
maybe split the exhaust manifold
so that it feeds two separate turbos?
Opinions?
Maybe I should
sell them to somebody with a non-turbo 3000GT and forget the
whole thing.
Like I said, weird ideas early in the morning. .
Rich/94
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 AWD
www.bazillionbooks.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:09:57
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbocharging a Fiero? Talon?
> If this doesn't work,
where else could I stick the turbos?
> How about on my 92 Eagle Talon TSi?
It's already
> turbocharged, so wouldn't it be easy to replace the
stock
> turbo with two sequential turbos and two intercoolers? Or
>
maybe split the exhaust manifold so that it feeds two
> separate
turbos?
This has been tried, although with the stock 2G mitsu DSM turbos,
which are
pretty small. Almost as small as 9b turbos. The problem
was that with only
1000cc of motor feeding each turbo there wasn't really
enough flow to get
the turbo spooling well. There's also the matter of
rigging some sort of
dual exhaust manifold and downpipe to hold the
turbos. There were also some
problems getting them both to fit in the
space of the single stock turbo.
Might be even worse with VR4 turbos since
the backside one is reversed.
> Opinions?
My opinion is that it
isn't worth the effort.
> Maybe I should sell them to somebody with a
non-turbo
> 3000GT and forget the whole thing.
That's what I'd
do... My stock turbos are sitting in a box waiting for
"something" to
happen, but I don't think anything ever will. Maybe I'll try
to put one
on a snowmobile someday, who knows.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#351
*********************
