Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, February 20
2004 Volume 02 : Number 376
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:30:24 -0000
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr
Team3S: Transmission Fluid?
Ok guys the 94 3000 gt sl service manual says to use Diamond ATF SP or
equivalent, whats an equivalent? Do I have to get the trans fluid from the
dealer? I changed the filter in the trans and need to know what to put
back in it...Thanks for the help..
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:11:21 +0100
Team3S: OBD2 Software with knock ?
I'm looking for a PC based OBD2 software that is able to show the extended
OBD2 data set. I was not yet successful to find more than one maker that
includes the knock sum. Any ideas ? Our cars do have the extended dataset
available and I know how to activate it. But the softeare should do this by its
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:41:13 +0000
Team3S: OBD2 Software with knock ?
I use the software from Alex Pepper. It is at:
He seems willing to put in custom support files for different cars to view
extended data sets. If you know how to do it on our cars, he'd probably be
able to put it in the software.
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:31:44 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <email@example.com
Team3S: Motor Mounts Update
Just a quick update on my in-progress motor mount replacement...
* With good OEM tranny and motor mounts (left and right), there is
zero weight on either of the roll stoppers (front and rear) with my
engine. If the engine needs to be moved to line up the cross pins in the
roll stoppers, you can simply push/pull on the transfer case with one hand to
position the engine. The above applies to both OEM and 3SX Polyurethane
mounts, as I've now done both.
* The breakthrough (for me) for removing the rear roll stopper from
the engine bay (once it was fully unbolted) was removing the rear turbo
wastegate actuator. It's only 2 bolts and a cotter pin, and it gives you a
lot of extra clearance. I also disconnected the rear turbo compressor
inlet hose and the heater core hoses to make things easier. Overall, not
too bad. Now that I know what needs to be moved/disconnected, replacing
the rear motor mount isn't so daunting of a task :-)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:54:12 -0500
From: Ted pangrace <firstname.lastname@example.org
There was good and bad info on brakes today. Philip seams to be the
best source for accuracy.
Here's my 2 cents. I have been racing Porsches and instructing in
them for 9 years. Brakes need to be set up for how you use the car.
Drilling and slotting on the street is for looks only. Maybe they shed
water better but that's all. On the track you need to come up with
plan for brake maintenance or it will be a very expensive
experience taught me this: 1)Take time to cool
them down after running hard or you will be buying a lot of rotors. 2)
Don't turn them, pitch
them. Thin discs warp fast. 3)
There's always someone who cracks a
rotor at an event. I have never
seen a non-drilled or slotted rotor crack. It is always the drilled rotor
that fails and it can be catastrophic. They crack right on the drill
holes. That's why I avoid drilling. 4) I freeze my
rotors. Cryogenics has tripled the life of my rotors and saved me time and
money. It dosen't look as cool though.
I did try drilling my name in my rotors once. It works with the
Ted 93' Stealth
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:01:29 US/Central
In the fall when I was away for school, I was trying to acquire copies of
my stealth keys. The local Wal-mart and k-mart couldn't even make an
attempt. The local hardware stores ruined several blanks and was
able to make a key to open my locks (good incase I locked my keys in
car). Finally I went to a dealer and they cut me a key from
key didn't even turn in the lock because my keys have worn
down and the
tumblers (or whatever they would be called) have more or less
it. I was finally successful because the dealer copied my
only key and
this one works. This was a lot cheaper (at $2 a key
versus the $10 i
think for the code keys that didn't even work).
Needless to say, I had 3
more keys made and tested in the parking lot of the
dealership before I
Oh and while I'm posting....
My dad and I have done all the work on my car (mostly my dad with me
getting tools and etc. He's the mechanic....), but now I moved 8 hours
away and i'm approaching 120k....yeah. Also there are some minor
that I want looked at because I know they are going to be expensive
repairs that are too complicated for me. Anyway, I'm living in Cedar
Rapids, IA now, and was wondering if anyone can recommend a good mechanic
or shop that won't treat me like I'm stupid?
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:14:09 -0500
From: "The Furmans" <L.Furman1@cox.net
Team3S: re:Stealth Keys
Jessica I am sure Rich Merritt will chime in shortly.... But you are
in fact in luck you have a local bunch of hardcore 3Si folks out your way. Most
of whom will prolly take you under their wing since you would be like a daughter
to most of those old timers :p (Sorry Rich had to do it to ya)
93 VR-4 Garrett GT 30R's and a few other things :)
You are in the home of the Stealth Boys, the 3K community's
We eat a lot of ribs at Al & Irene's,
help each other out on projects like
yours, and share parts and tools.
If you don't want to get your hands greasy in a group 60K effort, there
always Mike the Mechanic (also one of us Stealth Boys) who lives in
Moines and makes house calls. Contact him at email@example.com
to see what
charge to do your 60K and various repairs. If you don't have a
can do the fixes in my garage. He will be A LOT cheaper than
anybody in town,
and he actually knows what he is doing.
I've copied the Stealth Boys on this message (see cc's).
I am off to
Chicago for the next week, but I am certain that we can help
For gawd's sake, don't go to the local dealer! Ripoff city!
Denny's Mufflers (west side, 16th ave) is extremely good for
suspension, brakes, and alignments. Ask for Rob or Mike. Tell'm Rich
Join us for ribs (on occasional Tuesdays at Al & Irene's) and tell us
your woes. We have no female members of Stealth Boys any more -- not
my daughter (91 Stealth TT) got preggers and dropped out.
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4/currently engineless
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:13:31 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
"Jeff & Debby Kelley" <firstname.lastname@example.org
Team3S: Car Won't Start
Hi: It's been a while since I have contacted
Problem : Car turns over, no spark to plugs.
pulled out the ECU and it looks brand new, no smell
or even any seepage
from the caps.
I just bought this car and drove it up from
It ran beautiful the whole 2500 miles.
suggestions.. It seems the coil wouldn't be bad
since it has 3 on
It's a 1992 Mits. 3000GT SL Red DOHC
75,000 on it. Unfortunately, I don't know what
been done to it. I pulled The cover off the
timing belt and it
looks brand new, the guy I bought it
from said it had the 60,000 done
but I wanted to make sure.
Also at 110 it drove smooth and
only 3000 rpm. My wife
was asleep and never knew I was driving
Thanks For any Advice!
sold my 93 Base Stealth in Aug. last year
But I'm hooked and
had to get another,
well, better one , 3000 GT SL
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:26:25 -0500
From: "Dan Labonte" <email@example.com
Team3S: A challenge
Developing a control algorithum would be a piece of cake.
There are some
really simple PIDs that can be used on an 8-bit PIC
micro. But I am not
giving it away for only $50 so someone else can
make a product and make
money off it. It the guy is writing his own
code tell him to go look in the
Circuit Cellar archives.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:29:48 -0600
From: "Jesse Rink" <firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Re: Team3S: Car
I'm assuming you checked spark by pulling off the wires from the coils
cranking the engine, right? No spark at all in the coils? The first thing
check would be the Power Transistor Unit or ECU (even if the caps
leaking). I believe the service manual explains how to test the
There's gotta be a way to check to see if the ECU is trigging voltage at
transistor to turn it on and off. With the rapid rate it does this though
charge the ign coils, I'd imagine the only effective way to read this
would be with an oscillisope. You probably won't be able to determine
with a standard voltmeter. I've heard of several people with bad
causing the problem of no spark, but the same thing can be said of the
as the culprit.
Actually, another thing worth trying is replacing your ECU/PTU with a
good unit from someones car. If I remember correctly, the PTU is
on ALL DOHC cars 91-99. ECU is obviously different.
Oh. and check fuses too... you'd be very surprised. And check the
wires to the coils too. No ground, no dice. I doubt it's the
themselves, I've never heard of them going bad on any 3/S before from
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:52:27 -0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <email@example.com
Re: Team3S: A challenge
Haha.. Dan I was about to write in and say the same thing! He should
controls engineer for $50 / HOUR (like myself) and have them tune it
can't! And he should look up his terminology, he means to say
Neural at the
end, not fuzzy. Actually, I think PIC even has a bunch of
dedicated to PID tuning with code if he's gunna go that way.
for all us control engineers out there... lol.
MSEE, Virginia Tech
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:01:32 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <firstname.lastname@example.org
If vibration is a result of uneven pad material deposits rather
warpage, then why do rotors have to be turned so thin? Some
with cold race pads (abrasive) to grind off the
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England, UK
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:41:23 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <email@example.com
OT: TNL Advanced Racing Techniques - Course Report - Philip saves the day!
I've been in NASA HPDE Group 4 for the past 3 years. I've got no
to race again (I ran SCCA races 20+ years ago), but I decided to
Advanced Racing Course at "The Next Level" Driving School.
(That's my wife
"E.T." 's driving school at Reno-Fernley Raceway in Fernley,
taking their Competition Licensing course (for a NASA license,
so I can be
back-up driver for ET's Enduro Team), but I'm also taking
Techniques, under the tutelage of Dave Brown, a NASCAR
racer. Dave took 3rd
Place in the JellyBelly 300 last year at Sears
Point (Infineon). The only
reason he wasn't in 1st Place was that 2
entries were (different class)
Winston Cup cars, invited there to get more
spectators. Even the other
drivers congratulated Dave on his JellyBelly
'win'. He's been NorCal NASA
Race Event Director for years, and he has
a room full of trophies for every
kind of racing. The TNL Advanced
Racing course requires a competition
license, but since I've been licensed
before and they know my abilities (and
the boss is my wife) they let me study
with Dave Brown.
There was a glitch as we started - the Porsche they use as an
racecar had an illegal rollbar! It's a custom body, 914
heavily-modded 911 engine, with gobs of horsepower. It'll be
a cool racecar
when they get a proper cage. Dave has driven my modded
Base Stealth (and
other 3S's) before and he loves the GC Coilover suspension,
(and of course
it's got Proxes on it), so he opted to use that as his
instructor car. When
Dave began racing, his first choice was Stealth,
but he couldn't afford one,
so he bought an Eclipse. He won 17
races in that Eclipse... ;-)
I got a neat surprise when I began on Saturday-- one of the 3
in the advanced course was Team3S member Dean Benz! He had
come for a
test'n'tune of his WRX (no, he didn't have his 3S). It's a
requirement that to drive test'n'tune, you need a competition license
take a course with TNL to get a track permit. Although Dean has
instructor for the Quattro club, he doesn't have a license.
costs $175/day and the advanced course is only $195/day (for
now), so he
opted to join Jim Bucha (supercharged Miata) and I (modded VR-4)
Level III course.
I've been an instructor for a couple of years, and Dean has been
instructor and an avid autocrosser, so we both 'disagreed' with
initial track exercises, which are part of the "Separation of Axes"
Dean and I soon found out just how much there is for us to
concept stresses breaking down each compound (double apex)
straight-line components. The steering wheel is considered as
a "brake" -
every time you turn it, you add friction and slow down your
exercise: Maximum throttle in a straight line.
Brake hard. Turn sharply.
Squirt max throttle. Brake hard.
Turn sharply. Max throttle through the
(final) apex. This method
has the twofold benefit of maximizing speed and
of never unsettling the car,
since the suspension only has to deal with one
"Axis" of motion at a
time. Hence the name, "Separation of Axes". This
oversimplified so I don't make this post too long, but you get the
At first, my "pucker factor" kept me from going to the edge of the track
the completion of each straight-line piece. Dean "got it" sooner
did. His WRX is stock, but at the beginning of the free-form
he was almost catching up to me on each lap. I'm
used to street tires, so I had misgivings about going faster, but once
warmed up the S-03's, I was doing just great. By the end of the day,
two seconds faster per lap than I had *ever* been on race tires -
seconds! But part of my faster times may have been that this was the
time I've ever run this track with adequate brakes! I'll be
the race-prepped Porsches (~53sec laps) once I get StopTechs and
rubber. My car is fast, and the JICs are a perfect track
suspension - it's
the *driver* who needs more work. ;-)
[This was my first experience with *either* 2nd gen brakes OR
Panther+ Pads... WOW, what a nice track system! I can't
tell how well
they'd fare on a longer track with more high-speed braking
zones, but they
gave me the confidence to know that I could stop in any
situation. My top
speed was never over 130, and there was almost 1/3
mile between hard braking
zones, so they never got a real test... But I
was VERY impressed! I ran
non-stop for 2 1-hour sessions on Sunday at
top speed (and we had maybe 2
hours track time on Saturday) and the pads
still look almost new. I can't
say if they'd be adequate for advanced
drivers on big tracks, but I'd
venture that 2nd gen brakes with Carbotechs
(and Motul 600 brake fluid) are
more than enough for DE drivers right through
the Intermediate levels...]
The "eye-opener" for me was driving "against" Dave Brown as he tested me
passing & being passed. He ran separate sessions with Jim and I
wasn't really part of the total Advanced Racing program. It was
session of the day, and Dave said, "Now apply everything you've
today, and drive as fast as you can around the track. If I pass
have to pass me back." I was *ready* for that. My VR-4
is just above stock
boost (finally), it handles beautifully, and I was faster
than I'd ever
been... So I let it rip. I left him behind on the
through the 1-4 Esses, got through the 5-6 hairpin
quickly, did the
off-camber 7-8 sweepers and went past turn 10 at 125 and
braked hard for the
11-12 hairpin. That's when Dave went by me like a
SHOT! In my own Base
Stealth, he caught up to me in ONE lap! Holy
crap! I've never even BEEN on
a track with anyone who could drive like
that! [Later, Dave reminded me
that I'd been on the track with him many
times - he's one of the "mystery
racers" who joins us in HPDE Group 4 to try
out their new racecars. They
don't go to the downloads after the
session, so we never know who they
are...] Lower-horsepower cars do
very well on smaller tracks, and Dave
recalled the many times that ET passed
Z-06's in the Base Stealth at Sears
Point. A great driver trumps a
great car ANY day!
Well I passed Dave back, blocking him in the turns, just like he did to
I never really cut him off, but he jammed me quite a few times.
threatened once too often, running 2 abreast in the Esses and I blew by
dropping two wheels to make it a safe pass. Happily, that's
exactly what I
was supposed to do, and once I did it, it was a real race - a
against a better driver. It was a terrific match. He
wanted it to be a
one-on-one race, so that's what we did. As I built up
confidence, I tried
passes that I never would have tried before. I
learned that I can do things
with the car that I never thought possible, if
it weren't for the right
teacher. Yes..., there's a vested interest in
ET's school succeeding, but
this is without a doubt the best training I can
imagine. And I studied with
Skip (the man, not the school) 20+ years
ago... Dave Brown, Al Butterfield,
Vicman Ng - they're incredible at
sharing their racing secrets. ET could
not have hoped for better
instructors for "The Next Level".
RFR is a great learning track, since it's even wider than Thunderhill
to THill's 36'), and when Dave "put me through my paces" I appreciated
extra 4 feet. I easily passed this training segment, and the car
better than I ever imagined. It just didn't feel like a 4000
pound car out
there. I'm pleased to say that I think that I'm becoming
every bit the
driver that I've always hoped to be. I feel an incredible
accomplishment after this third phase of my TNL Advanced Racing
training. Bring on Level IV!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:34:14 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <FastMax@Cox.net
California Speedway [ Fontana ] --- Mar 6-7
NASA event at Fontana March 6th and 7th --- It's a little short notice but
trying to generate a little interest.
Damon Rachell and I plan on signing up and Mark Thompson will go along to
It's the same configuration as last year --- 2/3 of the high
speed oval and the infield
Four of us drove last year and had a great time --- If Kurt Zorbel shows up
A much more interesting time on the oval with his turbo car than
he did with his NA.
Generally the configuration is great fun --- the infield
is pretty technical with a couple
of high speed chicanes lined with tire
barriers [ the tires raise the pucker factor ]. The
Oval allows speeds up to
145+ depending on how long you can hold the throttle on the floor.
towards a concrete wall at a buck fifty can really get your undivided attention.
big dislike of the track is it is flat --- flat --- flat. I like a little
in the tracks I drive like Willow Springs, Thunderhill,
Sears or Laguna --- but --- like the
old saying about sex, there ain't no
such think as a bad track, some are just better than others.
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2