Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, February 18 2004 Volume 02 : Number
374
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:57:32 -0800
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: GTO-MR
OOPS! Have to correct myself to stop spreading more
rumors. I was
supposed to say "Highland Park (not Hyland)".
The Viper
was Bob Litz's brain child, so the Stealth perhaps was his
bastard son then.
Although he did get arrested for speeing in one of
them going 100+ on a
50-mph street (Telegraph road) and spent a few
hours at a police station.
Now he is one of GM's big cheeses and tells
which cars GM should make. When
he went to GM, one of his first
comments, to everyone's dismay, was that the
Corvette was too big, LOL.
Philip
http://supercar-engineering.com***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:29:13
-0700
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@mho.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR (stealth show car)
http://www.geocities.com/conceptcarcentralusa/intrepid.htmlThat's
the only other info I could find on it :)
I think this dodge concept car with
the HSX rear end would look awesome :-D
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4
(RIP)
'92 3000GT VR-4 (Vroom!)
Live as you are meant to, yielding at every
moment to the perfect freedom of a single necessity.
***
Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:28:49
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
-
---------snip--------->
A funny part is that Highland Park (not Hyland) is
not a "think tank" in
California (like some want to believe, hehehe) but a
downtrodden Detroit
suburb, which in the 80's was a home to Chrysler Tech
Center. ---snip---
Also I will never believe that Porsche would work
with Ferrari and with
Chrysler designing a sports car. Although, Chrysler did
own Lamborghini
in the 70's for several months, just like several other
car companies did,
before they had to sell it to stop losing money.
-
------------------------>
Thanks for the correction. But... We
researched this in the mid-90's after
a massive flamewar on the Starnet
list. The HP misspelling was mine, but
the original phrase got glitched
somehow from the original quote - from a
former Chrysler Exec VP who worked
on the project, who was Pres of a non-US
Chrysler operation when we contacted
him... (name withheld by request). His
words, "We roughed the original
drawings in Highland park, then CA, the
Stockton facility, (for secrecy -
there was fear of espionage) when Ferrari
came in to consult the body."
It was widely reported in the American car
mags that Porsche was involved, as
well. Iacocca had relationships with
many Italian car companies, like
DeTomaso, Ghia, Lambo, and Ferrari..., and
Chrysler owned 5% of Maserati in
the early 80's. Iacocca was enamored with
Italian car style and
everyone knew it - the industry joke in 1982 was to
call the "Chrysler TC by
Maserati" the "Lido" (Iacocca's real first name).
In the mid-80's, Highland
Park was not a 'downtrodden suburb', but a
thriving town, until they began to
dismantle it in 1995, and move to Auburn
Hills. And the design 'studio'
was called a 'think tank'. You only saw it
after the town died.
When I was there in the mid-80's photographing their
minivans, it looked like
a scene from a world's fair.
http://www.plymouthcars.org/chryshp.htmA
Hemi has never been and will never become a 4-banger. And the
cab-forward
design started with the 1993 Dodge Intrepid. Iacocca was
almost out of his
mind by then. He kept insisting on having wood laminated
sides on minivans.
:-) So the new Chrysler ME 4-12 is nothing else than
the Post-Stealth MR!
Amazing how old things can raise from the grave around
here. :-)
> Philip
>
http://supercar-engineering.com-
------------------------>
The term "cab forward" may have been *used*
first in 1993, but look at all
the Chrysler concept cars from the 80's - are
they raked forward, or not?
;-) They've been talking about this mystery
4-banger hemi variant for over
25 years. I never saw one, but I believe
it will happen (just like I did in
1980). It's a new rumor for this
year too - for '05... In March at the
show, truck freaks are expecting
the rumored 6+-liter, an 8+-liter or the
small platform 4-banger hemi 'thing'
to materialize in one '05 Dodge product
or another... Maybe
Dakota? Please give us your report after the show.
And what's wrong
with wood sides on minivans? LOL!
- --Forrest (...still an
Iacocca fan...)
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:05:37
-0700
From: "Paul Rupp" <
3000GT-VR4@acorp.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Advice on selling 3000GT VR/4
Hi All,
I'm thinking about
getting rid of my 1994 VR/4, but want some advice on what
would be a fair
price. Totally stock, leather, moonroof, six-CD changer in
rear,
premium sound (amp under passenger seat, etc.) It runs, and
actually
pretty well, but it goes downhill from there. It has 150K
miles, needs the
120K done, has compression ranging from upper 90's to 120's,
burns oil
(valve job needed), has a leaking clutch master cylinder, needs new
front
and read brake pads (which I have, and was going to install the very
day I
got hit), SRS light is on (though airbag hasn't been deployed), active
aero
light is on (probably because of front air dam), and, to top everything
off,
I just got hit on the passenger side door. Pretty significant
damage,
passenger door will need to be replaced (it opens, but is crunched
pretty
bad- haven't tried putting the window down, but assume it wouldn't go
down),
rear quarter panel has a small scratch on it from the accident (and a
larger
key scratch from someone with p---s envy), front quarter panel may
have been
moved on impact; doesn't show any exterior damage, but seems to
ride about
1/8 to 1/4" higher than the hood. Various and sundry other
dings and paint
chipping elsewhere. Interior, I don't have much to
compare it to. Requisit
split in the driver side leather seat, all
others seem to be OK. Replaced
the stock shifter with a Momo about 2
years ago. Some damage to passenger
side front "foot" carpet, and rear
passenger seat belt doesn't retract.
Electrically everything seems to be
fine, all lights seem to come on and
work, etc. Please understand that
most of these observations are my
unlearned opinion. I am not by any
stretch of the imagination a mechanic,
body shop expert, etc.
What I'd
like, if someone would venture, is an idea of what would be "more
than fair"
or at least fair, to expect to get from a VR/4 in this shape.
Also,
suggestions- eBay, 3SI, both? Should I sell it locally and avoid
the
hassels of shipping, remote selling, trusting a buyer I've never met,
etc.
Or, should I just take the insurance money (the other guy's fault) and
drive
the car until it dies? Or sell it to some body shop guy who can
fix it up
in his spare time? Or take the money, pick up a door on 3SI
or at a
junkyard and use the money to fix the mechanical issues? Other
ideas?
Thanks!
- - Paul
Albuquerque, New
Mexico
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:31:34
+1300
From: doug <
doug@paradise.net.nz>
Subject:
Team3S: Active Aero
Hello people
Need some information about my
active aero please ... When I get to
80kph the tail goes which is all good
and returns when reducing down to
50kph then the aero light shows up on the
dash and the tail will not go
up again when reaching 80kph. The front
air dam still has the motor and
brackets but the wing unit has been removed,
probably been damaged.
Anyone know why my rear wing unit will only work
once then won't work
again until I turn the car off and
restart.
Thanks for your help.
Doug
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 03:36:42
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
OT: Wood Sides on Mini-Vans (WAS: GTO-MR)
I immigrated to The States in
the early 90's at the age of 12. I remember
one day about 3 weeks after I
first arrived, walking to school and in front
of one house I saw this hideous
car parked in the driveway. It was some
ugly, huge gas guzzler with wood
sides. At first I thought that the car had
been in an accident and the owners
were too poor to do proper repairs, so
they used plywood. I continued to walk
past the car and noted the same
panels on the other side. I then came to the
realization that at one time,
perhaps 10 years earlier, some stoned shmuck
walked on to a dealer lot and
ASKED for a car with "plywood" on the door
panels. Almost 13 years later, I
still have no idea what would posses a
person to buy one of the new PT
Cruisers with the now-available wood panels
on the sides....
Maybe I'm just weird.
Tyson Varosyan
Technical
Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.comwww.up-times.com206-715-TECH
(8324)
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 03:52:15
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Active Aero
The rear and the front Active motors are both
controlled by the same
computer located in the trunk. Both front and rear
motors have sensors that
monitor the system in order to ensure that it is
working properly. If the
front wing is removed, the system knows that
something in the front is
messed up and stops working. This is a very common
issue with the VR4. On my
car, I disconnected the computer and wired up a
manual over-ride switch to
control the wing.
Tyson
Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.comwww.up-times.com206-715-TECH
(8324)
UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:32:08
-0500
From: "Bob G" <
Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
All this discussion about a mid-engine 3S has
gotten me thinking about the
possibilities. Wouldn't it be interesting
to try a conversion? How about a
Northstar engine/transaxle/subframe
bolted into the rear of one of our cars?
Downside would be the automatic
tranny. Wouldn't use a TT as the donor, but
a FWD car. Any
thoughts?
Bob Guirlinger
92 VR-4
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:32:14
-0500 (EST)
From: Michael Baldwin <
mbaldwin@alumni.tufts.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Optima red top
The reason I originally went with the red top is
because of the
testimonials where people have said their batteries have
lasted for 6-7
years.
Anyways, the battery has a 2 year warranty which
I'm out of, but its
prorated 50% after that, so I'm picking up a new one
Wednesday.
Mike
Quote>>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:05:08
-0500
From: "Dan Labonte" <
danlabonte@cox.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Optima Red top
If it will not hold a charge and especially if the
plastic on top of the
battery is bubbling, then it is time for a new
one. Regular battery is
fine
if you are all stock.
Dan
Labonte
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:22:14
-0800
From: Gizmo <
kdmorg@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: Stealth keys
Ted,
I have all 4 of my spares made from off the
shelf blanks. They are
nothing special. I have a '93 NA
R/T.
Regards,
Keith/Gizmo
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:38:08
-0800 (PST)
From:
vr4glenn@newsguy.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Stealth keys
My keys are from Wal-Mart. $1.79/ea, work
great.
IIRC, it's key #51 on the rack.
Glenn
At Tue,
17 Feb 2004 08:22:14 -0800, you wrote
>Ted,
>
>I have all 4 of
my spares made from off the shelf blanks. They are
>nothing special. I
have a '93 NA R/T.
>
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:53:36
-0300
From: Cesar Diniz Maciel <
cmaciel_3000gt@terra.com.br>
Subject:
Team3S: Active aero - how to disassemble wing
I have seen a web
page some time ago showing how to disassemble the rear
wing, with pictures
of each step. I need to perform this on my car,
because the wing is cracked.
DOes anyone have seend this web page, and
have the
URL?
Thanks
CEsar
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:59:57
-0500
From: "Bedrock" <
rbedrock@rcn.com>
Subject: Team3S: 60K
Tune-up
I am going to have a 60K performed on my car and the place
recomended on our
forum is
http://www.enhancedstreetperformance.com/
in MA. I have no doubt of
there experience
with our cars. This is a
quote from Dave at the shop "A typical 60K would
include the timing belt,
timing belt tensioner, waterpump (recommended),
accessory belts, plugs,
wires, fuel
filter, air filter, PCV, replacing the fluid in the tranny,
transfer case,
and rear differential, and top off of all fluids. We
also do a full safety
inspection and tire rotation. We use 100% factory
Mitsubishi parts.
We are running a "Spring
Tune-Up Special" where the 60K would cost $495
labor for the 3000GT/Stealth
Turbo cars (plus cost of parts) . The oil pump
is replaced as an
assembly and this usually adds another $150 in labor. We
have also
replaced the rod bearings for some customers with low oil pressure
problems,
which is only an additional $150 in labor since the pan is already
off for
the oil pump replacement." Parts will cost $774.50. The fluids and
oil
filter are the only things not
included in the quote. The rod bearing
set would be an additional $76.17 if
you decided to go that
route.
I know I should do it myself but making the
time and a warm spot is a
big problem in my life right now and I want to
drive it to FL around July or
August without any problems. Any input is
appreciated. I also found the
Hankook Ventus Sport K104 245/45/17 @ $395.25
delivered 4 to my door.
http://www.onlinetires.com/main.htmlBob-Team3S
White/Red
91 RT/TT, Original at 141,000+
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:08:02
-0500
From: Mark Frouhar <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Active aero - how to disassemble wing
This is the link I
used but it's coming up with a DNS error
right now <shrug>:
http://www.vr4stealth.com/spoiler.htm
-Mark Frouhar
85 TA 434 DFI7
T56
95 3000GT VR4
http://legoland.fbody.comCesar
Diniz Maciel wrote:
> I have seen a web page some time ago showing how to
disassemble the rear
> wing, with pictures of each step. I need to
perform this on my car,
> because the wing is cracked. DOes anyone have
seend this web page, and
> have the URL?
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:03:58
EST
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
That "intrepid" show car was built on an old dodge
daytona chassis. That car
is as closly related to the 3/S as a Civic would
be. Only some styling cues
were taken, and even those were changed by Mitsu
for the 2nd Gen. 2nd Gen
stlying Mods were all done by Mistu, and the
99 3rd Gen was designed by Mitsu's
Cali studios.
Our cars are built
on a streched Eclipse chassis, which in turn is from the
Galant, which only
makes sense because the cars are built in Japan, and are FWD
derivitives.
The space for the AWD half shafts was already there because of
cars like the
the Galant VR-4 and Eclipse turbo.
Could you make a 3/S a mid engine car.
. .sure, but a bunch of mods would be
needed just to make sure everything
fit in properly. How would the engine
breath? The fake NACA ducts on our
cars wouldnt be big enough to let air in, so
you would have to modify that.
Spring rates would change, and what about under
the the hood? Mid
engine cars have much shorter front overhangs. Think of an
NSX or Ferrari.
The proportions are totally different.
It woldnt be worth the time,
money, or effort.
Mike
97 SL
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:21:29
-0500
From: "Bob G" <
Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
>
> It woldnt be worth the time,
money, or effort.
>
> Mike
> 97 SL
>
All valid
points, Mike.
I know there would be major structural modifications,
suspension, electrical
as well as may others. I just think it would be
cool smokin' the rear tires
and having a V8 in the back seat!
Should
be easy/cheap to find a non-turbo 3S. The hard/expensive part will
be
finding the Northstar engine/tranny.
Bob G
92 VR-4
***
Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:01:35
-0700
From: "Steve Mitchell" <
stevem@ibew68.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
How about the drivetrain from an old Olds
Toronado.
I remember back when people used to put those in
the back of a
Station Wagon. You'd look through the
side windows and be able to see the
engine. The W34
package 455 would be a ticket to fly !
Steve M
'91
Dodge Stealth R/T TT AWD
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:07:52
+0000
From:
mjannusch@comcast.netSubject: Re:
Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
> Should be easy/cheap to find a non-turbo
3S. The
> hard/expensive part will be finding the Northstar
>
engine/tranny.
Why would you want to use a Northstar engine? If you
are going to do this and don't want to completely ruin the car, at least use a
6G72 and a FWD tranny. At least then when you are done you still have a
"3S" car.
Northstar. Bah. Where the heck did that idea come
from?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:23:22
-0600
From: "Julie Chapman" <
juliec@menterandassociates.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Noise Under The Hood
I hear a very loud noise, not
ticking more like rattling, coming from
under
the hood. Sounds like
it could be coming from the power steering pump or
the
area around
the pump.
I am a newbie. Bought a used 1994 Stealth 102k SOHC. The
timing belt was
just done before I bought it.
Can any of you
veterans give me some suggestions of what it could be?
And/or
how
to fix?
Thanks,
Julie C.
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:33:41
-0500
From: "Bob G" <
Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
> Northstar. Bah. Where the heck
did that idea come from?
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
Northstar is a pretty high-tech motor (for a US company), and
the
combination motor/tranny are pretty compact. Not a lot of room
behind the
seats.
Or, how about this:
Keep the standard
3S FWD DOHC in the front and put another one in the back!
That would be prety
wild too! Talk about all-wheel-drive...
Bob Guirlinger
92
VR-4
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:55:01
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
I remember seeing some black old American that
someone used 2 Northstar
systems to do that with. There is also a Hyundai
Tiburon that someone did
that with. I don't know what they used for
powerplants but they were saying
that balancing the 2 throttles was just a
total PITA. I don't know how to
shift the thing too. You would have to
use Automatic Trannys. The cool
thing though is that they could do wicked
burnouts. Sticking one tranny in D
and the other in R and flooring the car
caused an opposite way burnout that
would be sure to surprise the hell out of
anyone that would be getting lined
up to race with you.
Tyson
Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.comwww.up-times.com206-715-TECH
(8324)
UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:23:25
-0500
From: "Bob G" <
Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mid-engine 3S
The cool
> thing though is that they
could do wicked burnouts. Sticking one tranny in
D
> and the other in R
and flooring the car caused an opposite way burnout
that
> would be
sure to surprise the hell out of anyone that would be getting
lined
>
up to race with you.
>
> Tyson Varosyan
Now you're
talkin'! Anti-Traction action. Got to use our imaginations
with
this thing.
Bob Guirlinger
92 VR-4
***
Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:37:28
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
OT: Laguna Seca Report. NASA 1-day HPDE - brakes shot...
NASA held an
unique one-day event at Laguna Seca on February 10th. Five
30-minute
HPDE sessions PLUS an open track session. AWEsome!
After a great
weekend at Sears Point a couple of days before, I drove down
to Monterey
(Pacific Grove, actually) on Monday night. Geoff and Nissa, and
their
friend Jacob came down. On Tuesday morning, I left for the track
after
they did, since they were going early - working registration for NASA.
I
managed to get lost and stuck in morning drive traffic on the way to
the
track, so I missed the first session. At Sears Point, I had been
coaching
Bill Ashurst a bit, and I talked him into coming down to Laguna to
learn the
track; I offered to be his instructor. As soon as I (finally)
arrived at
the track, I rode along with Bill in Group 3, and taught him the
line and
the intricacies of the track. Bill has really progressed as a
driver since
the last time I rode with him, showing some impressive
skills. Even though
he's still driving his '93TT on street tires, he
was driving at the limit of
their grip..., and beyond. He was drifting
through parts of various tight
turns, in full control of the car. After
two sessions of instruction, he
was adept enough to go out on his own, to
work out a couple of issues when
being passed, and when passing. Nice
job, Bill!
I was running in Group 4, practicing some new techniques which
I've been
learning at "The Next Level" (E.T.'s driving school at
Reno-Fernley
Raceway). Even though I'm taking the Competition Licensing
course (for a
NASA license), I've also been taking the Advanced Racing
Techniques course,
under the tutelage of Dave Brown, a NASCAR racer, and Race
Event Director
for NASA NorCal. The Advanced Racing course usually
requires a license, but
since I've been licensed before and they know my
abilities (and the boss is
my wife!) they let me study with Dave. (I'll
do a separate list post about
the course.)
One of the exercises is
pretty stressful on brakes, because you convert
every tight double-apex turn
into a series of 3 or 4 straight-line
segments-- Top speed into a late
braking zone, downshift-turn-squirt the
throttle and brake hard for the
second segment, downshift (if
necessary)-turn and trail brake through the
third straight segment, then be
at full throttle before the apex. It's
a real stretch for me to go to the
edge of the track at the completion of
each straight-line piece (pucker
factor), but that's what the exercise calls
for. And it just ate up my
first gen brakes.
As I mentioned in
my Track Report last week, I had felt a lot of vibration
under hard braking
at Sears Point (Infineon) a couple of days before that,
but I've got a rim
that was repaired recently, and I just figured that they
didn't fix it
right. It couldn't *possibly* be brakes or rotors, since I've
got
fairly new cryoed Porterfield solid rotors and R4-E endurance pads.
So,
like a moron, and in my (typical) rush mode, I didn't even check the
brakes,
since I had plenty of pad 3 days earlier when I had last checked them
at
Infineon. Wrong assumption about the bent rim... By the end of
my second
run, I had an empty pedal - no brakes at all. When I got back
in, we took a
look at it, and the pads were gone. Metal to metal.
Only 4,000 highway
miles, three weekend HPDE events and three test'n'tune
days, and I had
ground the brakes into dust. (I should have expected
it, though, since I
get free track time at Reno-Fernley Raceway, and I run
until someone else
needs the track. I probably do the equivalent of a
2-day HPDE in half a day
of test'n'tune at RFR.)
Luckily, Bill had
some tools, and he took the time between his runs to put
on some used R4-S
spare pads for me. Thank you, Bill!!! We couldn't bleed
the
brakes much, since we couldn't even turn the fittings.
Some
greasemonkey moron had used vise grips on them, and it was like they
were
welded in. The pistons were just as stubborn. It was pretty
obvious that
this was the last event for the entire front brake system.
I had to limp
home 150 miles with "3-pump brakes" (I had to hit them 3 times
to get any
stopping power at ALL). ;-) When I was a kid, I drove
with no brakes for
months on end (when I had no money) in my 4400-lb,
'Vette-engined '57 Olds
98, so it wasn't a problem in my VR-4
'battleship'. Been there..., done
that... ;-) It felt like
"old times"...
It was a shortened day for me, but I still had a great
time. Looks like
there are StopTechs in my (near)
future...
Best,
Forrest
*** Info:
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***
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End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#374
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