Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, February 16
2004 Volume 02 : Number
373
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:33:23 -0700
From: "Donald Ashby" <
dashbyiii@mho.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR
http://www.g-root.jp/buyandsell/catalog/mitsubishi/mb00004.jpgThat
is the only thing I could find about a GTO-MR, unfortunately it doesn't list any
specs.
I waded through hours of Japanese websites claiming to have a GTO-MR,
most were about the Toyota MR, and the few that were GTOs that
had pictures
had the engine firmly planted in the engine bay. So information must be
scarce.
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4 (RIP)
'92 3000GT VR-4
(Vroom!)
Live as you are meant to, yielding at every moment to the perfect
freedom of a single necessity.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyson
Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "nws3 (E-mail)"
<
nws3@yahoogroups.com>; "Team3S
(E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, February 15, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: Team3S: GTO-MR
>
Holly cow! How many of you knew about this?
>
> "Mitsubishi's 3000GT
has mid-engine styling that goes beyond mere looks.
> Between 1995 and
1999, Mitsubishi produced a limited number of two seat
> mid-engined GTO's
(Japanese name for the 3000GT) that were sold in Japan
> only as the
GTO-MR. The mid-engine layout didn't improve acceleration (as
> the car
uses an AWD layout), but greatly increased the car's handling
> abilities
at the limit. No exterior styling enhancements were needed for
> this
change in the powertrain's location."
>
> Tyson Varosyan
>
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
>
tyson@up-times.com>
www.up-times.com> 206-715-TECH
(8324)
>
> UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:56:56
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: GTO-MR
Yea, I cant count how many times people have asked me if
the engine was in
the back. I guess if you think about it, that would work
space-wise.
Tyson Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical
Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.comwww.up-times.com206-715-TECH
(8324)
UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Donald Ashby
Sent: Sunday,
February 15, 2004 8:33 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S:
GTO-MR
http://www.g-root.jp/buyandsell/catalog/mitsubishi/mb00004.jpgThat
is the only thing I could find about a GTO-MR, unfortunately it doesn't
list
any specs.
I waded through hours of Japanese websites claiming to have a
GTO-MR, most
were about the Toyota MR, and the few that were GTOs that
had
pictures had the engine firmly planted in the engine bay. So information
must
be scarce.
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4 (RIP)
'92 3000GT VR-4
(Vroom!)
Live as you are meant to, yielding at every moment to the perfect
freedom of
a single necessity.
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
"Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "nws3 (E-mail)"
<
nws3@yahoogroups.com>; "Team3S
(E-mail)"
<
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, February 15, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: Team3S: GTO-MR
>
Holly cow! How many of you knew about this?
>
> "Mitsubishi's 3000GT
has mid-engine styling that goes beyond mere looks.
> Between 1995 and
1999, Mitsubishi produced a limited number of two seat
> mid-engined GTO's
(Japanese name for the 3000GT) that were sold in Japan
> only as the
GTO-MR. The mid-engine layout didn't improve acceleration (as
> the car
uses an AWD layout), but greatly increased the car's handling
> abilities
at the limit. No exterior styling enhancements were needed for
> this
change in the powertrain's location."
>
> Tyson Varosyan
>
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
>
tyson@up-times.com>
www.up-times.com> 206-715-TECH
(8324)
>
> UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:08:25
-0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <
GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: GTO-MR
Here is a UK newsgroup thread on the GTO MR:
http://www.gtouk.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33&highlight=mrAccording
to them the mid-engined MR is not real. The MR is a
lightweight version
of the GTO or 3000GT.
Greg Wurst
Network Manager
Technology
Department
Miamisburg City Schools
gwurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:43:16
EST
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR
I highly doubt there was ever a Mid mounted GTO-you cant
just plop the engine
back there, and our chassis was never set up to be a
mid rear car.
The MR is japanese for VR-4. The MR special edition is just
a lighter version
with bigger brakes sold only in japan. Im pretty sure it
had AWD and rear
steer, but thats it. Still tipped the scales at around 3600
lbs.
The N/A version, called SR, was available with AWD in japan
only.
mike
97 SL
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:26:42
+1300
From: doug <
doug@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: FW:
Team3S: GTO-MR
I have two GTO's imported directly from Japan, one being a
1990 GTO
automatic with identification E-Z164A MRPM, I don't know what
MRPM
stands for. The other being a 1992 GTO VR-4 Twin Turbo manual that
has
all the bells & whistles including leather seats, sunroof etc...
and
bears the 'Limited Edition' badges (whatever that means). I
can't
reveal the model type as I have with the 1990 model as it is in
the
workshop having a windscreen replaced.
The UK site says that the
American import bears the name VR-4, but in
New Zealand we have badged VR-4
GTO's that have been imported from Japan
so I am lost to what the cars are
named where.
Cheers
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:58:51
+0100
From:
roger.gerl@bluewin.chSubject: RE:
Team3S: GTO-MR
The MR is nothing else than a GTO TwinTurbo without active
suspension (only
sport struts) and no AWS. That's it, nothing else special.
Forget any other
bogus information about this version.
Roger G.
93
& 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:32:06
-0000
From: "Twin Turbo GTO" <
twinturbo.gto@btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: GTO-MR
I have an MR imported from Japan.
Their spec's
really vary, some having AWS, some not. Things like cruise
control were
also optional. They only came in in '94 (2nd gen shape).
Mine is a
little unusual because it has a 5 speed transmission (manual).
The gear
ratios are lower (or higher?) than the 1st gen 5 speeds, meaning
that the
acceleration is quicker, but it sacrifices top end speed.
I have AWD,
AWS, but no ECS or active aero.
Simon J.
'94
GTO(MR)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:24:30
-0500
From: <
planet.j@sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: I need a transmission!!
HELP!, i just found out that when my
transmission went, it blew a hole in the casing!.
Anyone have a 5 spd
manual for a 92 base model stealth. Cheapest I have found is $3000 and
this is just my commuter car for school. Anyone have one they could sell me? I
will pay all costs!
Jason M
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:44:16
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: I need a transmission!!
At 11:24 AM 2/16/2004 -0500,
planet.j@sympatico.ca
wrote:
>HELP!, i just found out that when my transmission went, it blew a
hole in
the casing!
>Anyone have a 5 spd manual for a 92 base model
stealth. Cheapest I have
found is $3000 and this is just my commuter
car for school. Anyone have
one they could sell me? I will pay all
costs!
Try these three links (see transmission section):
http://www.daveblack.net/asp/3000GTLinks.asp>
I
dunno what happened to the Kormex page. You used to be able to find
stuff
there. Looks like the world's worst web designer has been at work
again.
(That dude really gets around. I understand he started out working for
the
Stevie Wonder Wallpaper Co. But I digress. )
Kormex actually does
sell rebuilt transmissions, in spite of their web
page. I know that a 6-speed
Getrag goes for $1700 plus shipping, so I
suspect that a FWD tranny is
probably a smidge less.
They are much easier to take out than an AWD
trans, so maybe you can do it
yourself.
Where are you?
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:53:56
-0500
From: "Dan Labonte" <
danlabonte@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Over boost problem
Well I was able to get both front and rear wasteage
actuators going. Took
her for a run and car still bucks. This
time I only peaked at 14psi (was
17psi), which still seems high. I am
wondering if I am getting spark
blowout as the ECU is not recording a fault
for fuel cut. Also sounds like
the BOV might be opening to soon, could
this cause the car to buck? I have
IK-22 plugs gaped at .36 or .38 and
MSD wires. This weekend is coming up
quick so if anyone has some
suggestions that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Dan
Labonte
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:20:38
-0500
From: Ted pangrace <
tpan@adelphia.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Stealth Keys
I need a spare key made for my 93 Stealth. Do I have
to get one of
those "Head Key" blanks from a dealer or aftermarket or can a
key maker
use a blank of there rack?
Ted 93'
ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:13:20
-0800
From: "Steven Herlocker" <
sdh3@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
I have a 92 TT and I got a blank off of Fred
Meyers rack in the Nissan
section. The duplicate only unlocks my door though
and won't start the
car or open the trunk. Good if I lock my keys in the car
only really. If
you need a new key altogether I'd go with the "head key"
blanks personally.
Steve
92 TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:31:00
-0500
From: <
planet.j@sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
I tried to get a key made, the place ruined 3
keys before they told me they can't make a key. Im looking for extra keys too, I
only have one and cant find a place that can copy mine. Let me know if you can
find cheap blanks, I want some too
Jason
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:39:06
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
At 03:31 PM 2/16/2004 -0500,
planet.j@sympatico.ca wrote:
>I
tried to get a key made, the place ruined 3 keys before they told me
they
can't make a key. Im looking for extra keys too, I only have one and
cant
find a place that can copy mine. Let me know if you can find cheap
blanks, I
want some too
>
I don't understand this.
I got all kinds of spare
keys for my 3000GT VR4. I just went to the local
hardware store to have
duplicates made. They unlock the car, start the car,
and everything. The
ignition key is just a Plain Jane flat key, nothing
special.
If it helps,
here's what the blank says: ILCO X176 MIT1
This must be a Canadian thing,
eh?
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:41:50
-0500
From: "Bob G" <
Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
I had a key made for my 3000GT at the Mitsu
dealer. Pricey at $10.00, but
it is OE and works fine. Maybe the
Stealths use the same blank?
Bob Guirlinger
92
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:46:34
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
>> Let me know if you can find cheap
blanks
I bought a couple at eBay for my Stealth maybe a year or so ago.
Don't remember the price. "Heads" look something like stock keys except say
"ilco MIT4-P" instead of "Stealth". Grooves and shape match. Blank inserts into
door (but won't turn, of course).
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:58:40
-0500
From: Ted pangrace <
tpan@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Stealth Keys
Ebay has Stealth blanks for $5 +$2 shipping.
Search "Dodge Stealth Head Key Blanks". If I hear nothing from the
list in a few day I guess I will buy off Ebay and take a chance a local keymaker
can "cut" it.
Ted 93" ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:00:28
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
>I bought a couple at eBay for my Stealth
maybe a year or so ago. Don't
remember the price. "Heads" look something like
stock keys except say "ilco
MIT4-P" instead of "Stealth". Grooves and shape
match. Blank inserts into
door (but won't turn, of course).
>
My
Ilco replacement key works in the ignition and door, but not the hatch
(just
checked).
Rich
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:06:11
-0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stealth Keys
My best recommendation would be to get a key
from a dealer, and get them to
cut it from your VIN. They have a
machine that will cut it given only the
VIN (as long as you haven't changed
your lockset!). I did this and have a
perfectly cut key and if it was
messed up when cut, they would of course try
again at their expense.
Make sure they grind off the edges when done
though, they can be
rough!
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
In storage til spring
and badly missed =(
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:39:36
-0600
From: "Shane Thoms" <
sthoms@thomsclan.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Stealth Keys
I have only had good luck with a real locksmith in
making spares.
Dunno what the others do, but my locksmith spares are always
functional.
Unless the cost is crazy, I think I would go dealer too if time
allows.
$0.02
Shane
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:19:13
-0500
From:
Rod2414738@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Stealth Keys
Same with me, I took my one original key to the local True
Value hardware store and had spares made. The keys did work a bit rough at
first, but after a couple passes over the wire wheel on the bench grinder they
work as well as the original.
- -Rod
'93 Stealth R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:47:09
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR
From: <
M3000GTSL84@aol.com>
> I highly
doubt there was ever a Mid mounted GTO-you cant just plop the
engine back
there, and our chassis was never set up to be a mid rear car.
> The MR is
japanese for VR-4. The MR special edition is just a lighter
version with
bigger brakes sold only in japan. Im pretty sure it had AWD and
rear steer,
but thats it. Still tipped the scales at around 3600 lbs.
> The N/A
version, called SR, was available with AWD in japan only.
> mike
>
97 SL
- ------------------------>
The platform WAS set up to be a
mid-rear car! They didn't need "exterior
styling enhancements" for a
"change in the powertrain's location" because
that's how Chrysler designed
it! All that Mitsubishi did was to resuscitate
the original Hyland Park
(Chrysler's 'think tank' facility, in CA) design
that Dodge asked them to
build in the first place, in the updated GTO body.
Before Mitsu came on board
with the project, the original Chrysler design
(ca. 1985) was for a
mid-mounted 4-banger hemi engine, initially prototyped
as the "Intrepid" (no
relation), before being renamed as the Stealth in
1987. It had a flat
rear deck (a la NSX), the side-view mirrors were at the
*top* of the windows,
and there were vents just in front of the rear wheel
wells, to help cool the
mid-engine. Since Ferrari, Porsche and Chrysler
collaborated on that
first design, it's a safe assumption that the curved
body and side vents were
designed by Ferrari; hood and haunches probably a
result of Porsche input,
and "cab-forward" body slope was pure Iacocca.
Even after they scrapped the
mid-engine hemi in favor of the
transverse-mounted in front, larger Chrysler
3 liter (which wasn't ready in
'87, so they switched to the Mitsu 6G72
engine), the side vents were kept as
a design statement. We've got
front, side, and rear views of that original
3S design on our website, but
I'm traveling, and this front view is the only
filename I remember:
www.Team3S.com/Images/3S-Intrep85F.jpg-
--Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:39:43
-0500
From: Scott <
scott@mycruiseoutlet.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ECU Wiring Diagram Needed
I am looking for a wiring
diagram/electrical schematic for the ECU. Anyone
have one or know where
I can get one? A buddy and I are going to hook up a
boost controller
and want to be absolutely sure of the wiring.
thanks
Scott
95
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:12:34
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: GTO-MR
Holly cow! Was this thing ever made?! Even as a prototype?
Man, what a
project it would be to get an S3 and do this for real... When you
get home
please email the other pics too.
Tyson Varosyan
Technical
Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.comwww.up-times.com206-715-TECH
(8324)
UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:24:50
EST
From:
M3000GTSL84@aol.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: GTO-MR (stealth show car)
I searched just about everywhere and
found only one pic of this mysterious
show car on the web.
http://www.supercars.net/Pic?s=1&id=2216&i=0&p=1989_dodge_interepid-1.jpg&y=1989&m=Dodge&o=Intrepid%20Concept
Looks
like a stealth all right.
Mike
97 SL
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:56:19
-0500
From: "David Thrower" <
repairerr@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Stealth Keys
Ted,
I never had any "origional" keys
for my Stealth. The only two I received
from the first owner were duplicates.
And like others have said, the blanks
are Ilco X176 MIT1 . These are also
stamped with the name of a local
locksmith company here in Harrisburg that
cut them. Maybe you would have
luck with a locksmith too, or the Mitsu
dealer.
Dave Thrower
92 Stealth R/T
TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:25:12
-0500
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <
indystealth@mcihispeed.net>
Subject:
Team3S: 3S: mid-engine design?
- ----- Original Message -----
> Holly cow! Was this thing ever made?! Even as a prototype? Man,
what a
> project it would be to get an S3 and do this for
real...
- ------------------
Yes, it was actually made.
I took that picture when the car was sitting in
front of the Chrysler museum
here in Detroit. They pulled it out of a
warehouse for a photo shoot of
the museum opening.
The Dodge Intrepid show car in the picture is a
running, working, drivable
prototype made by Chrysler in 1987, shown in the
International Auto Show
circuit in 1988 and 1989. It is a mid-engined
design, powered by a 2.2L(?)
turbo 4-cylinder Chrysler engine. It was
supposed to be the "top dog" Dodge
performance car for the 90s, above the
Daytona. However, it was
overshadowed by the Viper during the 1989
Detroit Auto Show.
Chrysler paired with Mitsu to create the production
model, which replaced
the RWD Dodge Conquest/Mitsubishi Starion. By the
time they finished, it
was a front-engined, FWD design with a Mitsubishi
powerplant.
Unfortunately, Bob Lutz (former Chrysler president) never
supported the
Stealth as the Dodge flagship model, since it wasn't a 100%
American-made
car. The 3S was originally designed in the US by
Chrysler, but it was
produced in Japan by Mitsubishi. Lutz pushed to
have the (100%
American-made) Viper produced instead, and the rest is
history. The
Chrysler marketing department stopped promoting the
Stealth when the Viper
came out in late 1992, and the Yen/Dollar exchange
rates made the Stealth
too expensive relative to competition such as the
Corvette. By 1994, the
price had shot up over 50% above the '91 model,
so it stopped selling.
Chrysler tried to make the Stealth cheaper by
de-contenting the car for '95,
but it was too late. Dealers stopped
ordering Stealths for their showroom
inventories, only selling the car if a
customer paid a deposit prior to
ordering it. Dodge dropped the Stealth
after '96, even though the 3000GT
continued until 1999.
Roger
Roskam
'91 "Indy" Stealth TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:39:22
-0800
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: GTO-MR
I want to go see if I could find that Pre-Stealth-MR
in the Chrysler
museum in Auburn Hills.
The information below is
interesting. It clarifies some points but also
adds some other unbelievable
rumors. A funny part is that Highland Park
(not Nyland) is not a "think
tank" in California (like some want to
believe, hehehe) but a downtrodden
Detroit suburb, which in the 80's
was a home to Chrysler Tech Center. I
worked in that old "think tank"
for two months in 1997 before they finally
closed it for good. Also I
will never believe that Porsche would work with
Ferrari and with...
Chrysler designing a sports car. Although, Chrysler did
own Lamborghini
in the 70's for several months, just like several other car
companies
did, before they had to sell it to stop losing money. A Hemi has
never
been and will never become a 4-banger. And the cab-forward design
started with the 1993 Dodge Intrepid. Iacocca was almost out of his
mind
by then. He kept insisting on having wood laminated sides on
minivans.
:-)
So the new Chrysler ME 4-12 is nothing else than the Post-Stealth MR!
Amazing how old things can raise from the grave around here.
:-)
Philip
http://supercar-engineering.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#373
***************************************
