Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, January 23
2004 Volume 02 : Number 352
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:53:07 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wrong information. Sorry experts....
According to CAPS, there was a change mid-year in the receiver. 93.01
through 93.05.3 cars use MB869218. 9306.1 through 94.05 use MB898319
(Although that number does not come up on partznet for some reason).
So you may want to double check. However, to ask the obvious, why did
you ask for advice on whether your car uses R-134a if it was clearly posted
under the hood and in your manual that it uses R-12?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:13:46 -0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wrong information. Sorry experts....
"9306.1 through 94.05" is the 1994 model. There was no "mid-year" change
for 1993 models. The US Feds mandated HFC-134a be used starting with all 1994
models sold in the USA. All factory 1991-1993 3S models used CFC-12
(Freon).
More AC info for our cars:
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:24:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wrong information. Sorry experts....
You're right, Jeff. I was looking only at the "as built" years,
rather than the model years. However, that doesn't solve the
problem. CAPS lists a different part number ofor 9108.1 through 9212.3
(which, I assume, would cover some 93' models). That number is MB813589,
and is listed on Partznet.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:22:50 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Back to the Brakes!
Don't forget that good brake fluid really helps delay problems too.
..and get some spacers, or even makeshift spacers for fitment
testing,
but no driving. Very often wheels will fit with 5-15 mm spacers.
Anything over about 5mm you will need longer studs as well.
Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:24:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
This is regarding a 1997 VR4 with about 56k miles.
Car is in the shop getting new wheels (Ronals - thanks for everyones
help
in selecting wheels). Got a call saying that the car needs new brake
pads
on the front, rotors resurfaced, fluids flushed ($280.52) AND the AC
and
power steering belts look worn ($157.17 to replace).
Questions:
Brakes-
a.Is 56k miles good for the stock pads (regular driving - mostly!)?
Or
should I drive 'em until they squeak?
b.Are there special brake pads I should request?
c. Is it normal to resurface the rotors? Is this just to make sure
they
are straight?
Belts-
d.If they look worn is it OK to wait another 5k miles or so for the
60k
service?
Note that this is at a wheel/tire place in San Francisco and not the
dealer.
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:57:37 -0600
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
At 07:24 PM 1/22/2004 -0500, Michael Baldwin wrote:
>This is regarding a 1997 VR4 with about 56k miles.
>Car is in the shop getting new wheels (Ronals - thanks for everyones
help
>in selecting wheels). Got a call saying that the car needs new brake
pads
>on the front, rotors resurfaced, fluids flushed ($280.52) AND the AC
and
>power steering belts look worn ($157.17 to replace).
>
>Questions:
>Brakes-
>a.Is 56k miles good for the stock pads (regular driving - mostly!)?
Or
>should I drive 'em until they squeak?
>b.Are there special brake pads I should request?
They sound done. Go with stock pads from the dealer. Don't let them
install
those cheapass pads they have in the store. If they want to put in
their
pads, hold out for a lifetime warranty.
Pads are about $100, resurfacing is $15 per rotor, fluids are $10. So
it
should cost about $140 in parts plus labor. Labor is about 1.5 hours.
When
they do the "fluids flushed" make sure they bleed the brakes front and
rear
and completely replace the fluid. I like Ford high performance fluid,
but
they probably don't have any. If you can stop by a Ford dealer, pick up
a
couple of pints for them. It's better than anything they have. Motul is
the
best, but you probably can't find any of that, either.
>c. Is it normal to resurface the rotors? Is this just to make sure
they
>are straight?
Yes. Probably need new ones next time, though. Rotors are a wear item. I
am
amazed you got this far on one set of brakes.
>
>Belts-
>d.If they look worn is it OK to wait another 5k miles or so for the
60k
>service?
Yes. Do all that stuff at once and get a package deal from somebody.
In
fact, do the 60K as soon as you can afford it.
>
>Note that this is at a wheel/tire place in San Francisco and not
the
>dealer.
Whew! So they only charge you twice as much, instead of 10X as much.
Rich/slow old poop>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:37:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Thanks Rich.
I called Mitsubishi and the stock pads ore $59.92 for both the fronts
(does this sound right?). MR569592
Also, wasn't able to find the Motul brake fluid, but called up the
Ford
dealership and they are selling the Ford high performance fluid for
$3.54
a pint. He said I would probably need 3, but he also mentioned that
its
just Dot 4 brake fluid and I could probably get it at Kragens auto
parts
(Kragens said they only sold Castrol).
Am I getting everything right here?
Mike
> They sound done. Go with stock pads from the dealer. Don't let them
install
> those cheapass pads they have in the store. If they want to put in
their
> pads, hold out for a lifetime warranty.
>
> Pads are about $100, resurfacing is $15 per rotor, fluids are $10. So
it
> should cost about $140 in parts plus labor. Labor is about 1.5 hours.
When
> they do the "fluids flushed" make sure they bleed the brakes front and
rear
> and completely replace the fluid. I like Ford high performance fluid,
but
> they probably don't have any. If you can stop by a Ford dealer, pick
up a
> couple of pints for them. It's better than anything they have. Motul
is the
> best, but you probably can't find any of that, either.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:45:04 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
You have to order motul online... ask Geoff Mohler for more info. It
isn't much more to get the Porterfield pads and they do offer better
performance, so I would get those too...
- -Alex
former '95 VR4
current '02 M3
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:31:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Back to the Brakes!
Don't forget high temperature brake fluid.
Ann Koch
'93 Blue TT
'94 Red TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:06:19 -0500
Subject: Team3S: 93 3000GT Tranmission Problem
I have a 1993, 3000GT non-turbo automatic that all of a sudden lost
all
gears but 3rd and reverse. I guess it is in fail safe mode. I
did a check
of the engine codes and came up with 62 which is the induction control
valve
position sensor. Code means that there is a VIC servo
malfunction. Is this
part of the transmission and is it accessible from the outside?
Transmission was replaced 3 years ago with a rebuilt one. Can anyone
help
me with this problem? Thank you very much.
Richard Tyska
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:27:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Are these the ones I have to BBQ? (or are those the race pads)
I'm assuming this is what I would want:
R4-S High Performance Street and Autocross
For high performance and heavy-duty street conditions. Perfect for
prolonged everyday street use while also being capable of tolerating
the
most severe street use without any fade. Rotor friendly of course.
The
R4-S friction level will give you an impressive increase in stopping
ability with very minimum pedal effort. R4-S compound has the
absolute
lowest noise and dust levels, far below OEM equipment or any other
high
performance brake material. Good for autocrossing, some drivers
schools,
solo events, and rally.s. The R4-S compound is available for virtually
any
vehicle sold in the US. We also offer the R4-S in pad sizes for
competition type calipers that are used under street driven
conditions.
Sounds like they are better than stock. Does anyone know if they have
distributors (in northern California) or do I need to order from them
directly?
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:55:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Those are the ones..yes.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:04:08 +0100
Subject: FW: Team3S: Back to the Brakes!
Sorry--had a typo in the Team3S address below.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Engelmann Peter A Maj AFELM PEP
To: 'Jim Matthews '
Sent: 23.01.2004 13:01
Subject: RE: Team3S: Back to the Brakes!
Hi, Jim!
Well, I'd like to try your 2nd gen stuff to see if it fits my 1st gen
wheels, but I'm now running into a time problem. I have to get my
car
re-registered with USAREUR, and it won't pass with the bad brakes I
currently have. So, I MUST have this resolved by the end of
February,
as registration is due in March, and I still have to drive 400 km to
the
nearest USAREUR inspection station in Giessen for the inspection,
then
have time to send off the paperwork to Ramstein (600 km from me). If
I
order new parts from the States now, I should have plenty of time to
get
them in--APO mail takes a while to get to me, as I've explained
before.
But if your parts don't even go out to you until next week, it could
be
3 weeks from now before they arrive--toss in another 2 weeks to get
your
stuff to me, and we're right down to the wire, and if they don't fit,
I'm screwed.
Given the time constraints, even buying new wheels now is a
gamble--again, if they don't fit, I'm screwed.
Rich thinks that going to cryoed rotors and better pads alone is
sufficient. Jack T. thinks I need 2nd gen. You say you honestly
don't
know, not having run on just 1st gen, but that cryoing and pads
definitely made a difference in your 2nd gen setup. Hmm. Well,
that's
the risk you run when you ask for several opinions...they're not all
necessarily the same.
Sounds like my only real option now is to just get new 1st gen
stuff--because I know it will at least FIT, and it will certainly
make
the car pass inspection.
But before I start ordering parts, thought I'd check back one last
time
and see if you had a firm date when you could ship me the front
calipers/rotors so I could try them on for size? If by some magic
I
could get those parts in less than 2 weeks, I'd give that a try.
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:20:31 +0100
Subject: Team3S: RE: Please help my R&D a little
Hi, Philip!
I presume the e-mail below is in response to my queries...hmm, now
you've
got me interested again. Pardon my ignorance, but a quick stupid
question:
does the 332mm kit have a braking area equivalent (or even larger to)
stock
2nd gen brakes?
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:02:51 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Mike, I have 70K on my stock front pads, and they're not even close to
worn. In fact, they are the originals that came on the car new! But
then again, I'm not a racer, and most of those miles are highway miles. I
changed my rear pads once, but that's because the rotor rusted from the car
sitting about a year while I had the tranny in and out 3 times!
As for the belts, check them yourself and see how worn they are. If
they aren't really cracked and dry rotted, I'd wait to do the 60K, becuase your
going to have to take them off again anyway.
As for the type of pads, I'm certainly no guru in that area, and there are
a lot of much more qualified people on this list that can answer that, but if I
learned anything from this list, it's that you need to choose a pad that best
fits your driving.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:06:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Please help my R&D a little
Larger sweep, about 12 mm longer and thicker pad, with about the same
cross-section. Yes, the pad is bigger and better cooled too.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:06:09 -0800
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Hi Michael,
Brake pads are really easy to
change on our cars, especially the fronts. If you rotors are not warped
and you don't have excessive pad buildup, you may not need to resurface the
rotors. You can see how to change pads and rotors on my website
here:
Once you've changed your pads once, you'll never want to pay someone to do
it again. You don't even need any tools except for your OEM jack/lugwrench
and a pair of pliers to compress the pistons. Rotors require a little more
work and a couple more tools, but they're still pretty easy.
I have 75,000mi, 1.5 seasons of autocross, and one track day on my current
OEM rotors. I've used OEM, R4S, and R4 pads all on these same
rotors. No problems whatsoever. My OEM pads weren't even 50% worn at
72,000mi when I switched them out for R4S (what I now run on the street).
I don't beat the crap out of my car by any means, but I routinely dive-bomb
corners and would not say I'm easy on the brakes.
- --Erik
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:44:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
I wonder if they have more than one kind of Ford brake fluid. I
know we always asked for the HD or heavy duty version. Another
good fluid which is in between the Ford HD and Motul is ATE Super
blue.
It's very popular and comes in two different colors to help you
completely bleed your brake system:
-Mark Frouhar
85 TA 434 DFI7 T56
95 3000GT VR4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:46:58 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: 93 3000GT Tranmission Problem
Not sure if 62 is correct, or related to trans problem,
the VIC is the motor and sensor to control the Intake path.
On the driver side of intake manifold, it opens a six plate butterfly
to make throttle body air go 'straight' to intake ports over 3000
rpm,
or around the back and then to ports. Only on 24v NA if I recall.
Supposed to give more torque at low rpm.
Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:01:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stock brake pads / Belts question
Thanks, great site. I'm thinking of doing the brake swap myself now.
In addition to increased performance, would you say the aftermarket
pads
last longer than stock?
Also, I came across this site for different fluids:
The three that stood out to me were (may have been their
advertising):
ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid (DOT 4) - well suited for street
- can go without flush for 3
years (better for street)
- color blue makes it easy to
bleed
Motul Racing Brake Fluid 600 (DOT 4 )- well suited for street also
- higher operating temps (better
for track)
Ferodo High Performance Brake Fluid (DOT 5.1) - designed for ABS
Thoughts? I am leaning towards the ATE Super Blue brake fluid. Where can
I
get it? Do I want Original ATE Brake Fluid Super DOT4 or another
version?
Thanks
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #352
***************************************