Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Tuesday, January 13 2004   Volume 02 : Number 344
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:16:43 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: My super tuner strikes
> Mike spotted the "tour/sport" light flashing, so he disconnected the
> electronic suspension somehow and it cured the sputter.
Hmmm, that sounds a lot like a conversation I had with another owner last year.  He's not a member of any of the forums, but he gave me permission to post the e-mail he wrote.  Here it is:
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I wrote to you about 2 months ago concerning my 92 Stealth RT DOHC non-turbo that would not run properly when trying to maintain a steady speed. Idle was fine and full throttle was fine but any other throtlle position the car ran terribly. After changing many parts, checking and replacing sensors and the TPS, having Dodge and Mitsubishi dealers, as well as independent garages look at it, nobody could determine the problem. I even sent the ECM in to have it checked. After many hours of frustration a mechanic finally pulled the speedometer cable off of the transmission and lo and behold the car ran fine except at idle speed. He determined that the speed sensor (reed switch) in the speedometer head must be bad. We replaced the entire cluster but the problem was not solved.
  I started calling many Mitsubishi sites that dealt with electronics but nobody had ever heard of this problem. One day I happened to call a place in Orlando, FL called ZDR Electronics ( 1-800-977-3724). Once I described my problem to them they immediately said that they had run into this problem with the Stealth and 3000GT before. They guided me through a series of electronic components to check (most of them I had already checked). Surprisingly enough the problem turned out to be the ECS control unit located in the trunk. My Tour/Spot mode indicator always worked and I could switch between the two settings, but something on that circuit board went bad. Once I replaced the ECS unit with a used one the car has been running great again.
   If you or anybody runs into problems like mine I would highly recommend calling ZDR Electronics. They really know the electronics on these cars and ended 3 months of my frustration at no charge.
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- --Erik
'95 VR-4
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:36:34 -0800
From: Gizmo <>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Power Steering.
I've seen the responses for this and I don't see the obvious.
Loud squeeling from the belt then no power steering?
Have you checked that your belt is still intact?
No belt, no power steering! Just like the engine is off.
It's the cheapest possible cause.
And it won't affect other systems if this belt is gone. (alternator/ac)
I would check this first then try the expensive stuff.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:28:08 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Qs on water injection
Couple of comments:
Dan Labonte wrote:
> The ERL system is not true 3D mapping.  It uses the injector
> dutycycle to control pump speed (which is not a bad thing)
> and a boost switch to controll on/off.  Yes it works with
> two different variables or inputs but is not a true 3D map.
That's the 2D system, but they also sell a 2S system, which uses boost AND RPM to create a flow map.  It's 3D, but limited because the RPM axis only has 8 adjustment points and the boost axis has only a turn-on threshold and a gain setting. 
> The SP controller measures boost pressure and has two user
> adjustable settings, Start and Full On.  Start is the boost
> pressure required to activate the system and Full On is the
> boost pressre for max injection qty. Start is adjustable
> from .5 to 8 psi and Full On goes from 2 to 25psi.  The
> controller has its own PWM contol for the pump and will vary
> the ramp rate of the injection qty linearlly between the
> two settings. 
The problem with that kind of setup (if I'm reading your right), is that it doesn't account for RPM.  With that controller, you'd have the same water IDC with 15psi at 3500RPM as you would with 15psi at 7000RPM.  However, in the latter case, you'd have almost twice the airflow.  With a system like that, you have to tune to make sure you don't overinject at low RPM, and you end up under-injecting at high RPM.  The ERL system addresses this issue.
> Tank options for our cars could include the following:
> 1) 1gallon Euro style washer fluid tank that mounts
>    under front clip.  (I think Roger can sell these)
I have this tank and appreciate that it holds almost a full gallon and has a hole for a level sensor.  That capacity allows me to run about 1.5 tanks of gas on the street between water refills.   For autocross and street use, this tank is great and I have no complaints.  However, it does have an issue for road course use:  it's a wide tank and under certain conditions, the water can slosh entirely to one side of the tank, starving the pump.  I found this out at PIR last year.  PIR is run clockwise, and has several sustained right-hand turns.  As I got faster and more comfortable with the track, I was under full boost during significant cornering.  This lead to the pump running dry and needing to be primed.  Thus I had no more WI for the remainder of that session.  I'll be working on a solution for that issue this winter.
One complaint about the ERL pump I have is that if you get ANY air in the inlet line, it has to be reprimed by disconnecting the outlet line and running the pump for a few seconds.  Before you ask if the pump is higher than the tank or if the inlet line is long:  The pump is BELOW the tank, and the inlet line is about 14" long, maximum.  It STILL can't self-prime.
As for a solution to the sloshing/priming issue, I have three ideas:  1) make some kind of baffles in the tank to prevent sloshing; 2) create some sort of reservoir between the tank and the pump such that the pump has 20cc or so of water, even if the tank stops supplying water; and 3) install a manually controlled solenoid between the pump and the injection solenoid, so I can open the line from the driver's seat and prime the pump.
As for mounting the nozzle, I had no issues with mounting it to the stock y-pipe.  I tapped the plastic and used a large hose clamp for extra security. 
Also, I know you're supposed to see a reduction in EGTs with WI, but I don't see more than 10C or so difference.  And even that's questionable since 10C is almost the noise level.
- --Erik
'95 VR-4
ERL 2S Water Injection with 1gal Euro Bumper Tank
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:57:07 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Another ABS question.
Hi there,
I just recently had a power amp installed to power a subwoofer in
the back of my 93 Stealth R/T. The day I picked it up, the ABS light
has been on ever since. Tried resetting the ECU, disconnecting the battery
and starting/stopping the car 12 times..... still on.
I searched the FAQ archive and could not find where all the wiring is.....
The stereo shop won't help, and Dodge wants a fortune to diagnose....
I know the power wire went from the back and followed the wiring through
the door, over the front right wheelwell to get into the engine compartment
to connect to the battery. (Comes out of the fender near the ABS relay box....)
ABS Fuse is OK. Speed sensors are on the wheels so they couldn't have screwed them.
Where do I start hunting (without ripping apart the entire passenger side
of my car following that stupid power cable from the spare tire to the battery
to see where the stereo shop disconnected or sliced or crimped a wire?
Thanks in advance,
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:10:01 -0500
From: Christian Longtin <>
Subject: Team3S: Battery cables
Hi everyone,
I was just wondering if someone knew approximately the length
of our battery cables.
Christian Longtin
1992 3000gt vr-4
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:02:25 -0500
From: Planet <>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Power Steering
Ok, I will supply some more info. It is not the belt. Spinning perfect.
My girlfriends father is a mechanic so he took a look. Pulled off the
hose that leads to the resiviour and the pump is sucking. It never did
leak, it was parked over snow, that was the first thing I looked for.
About the squeeling belts. Thats quite common here, it was -25 degrees
celcius, thats damn cold. After 1 min the belts made no sounds as I
guess they warmed up a bit.
One more observation I noticed, maybee this is the key. When I checked
again I noticed something. Around the cap of the resivour was moist.
Also drip marks were visible down the sides of the resiviour, also on
the frame below it. Now, this is the first time I have opened the
resiviour, so I didn't spill any from a previous encounter. So I
thought, frozen lines? overflow? So I topped it up and bled the system.
The fluid moves up and down when turning the wheels also (on stands).
Still no luck.
I have also been informed some cars accually dissengage the pump at high
speeds so that steering is more stiff when on highway, making it less
likely to oversteer. But without more investigation  my girlfriends
father wasn't able to determine anything was wrong. He investigated the
rack and said there was no visible leak etc. This again was on the
driveway using just a flashlight.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:42:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Good Shop in Portland OR
I have heard good things about Gateway Auto in Portland, but never used them.
To be sure, ask the local Portland group:
or the Northwest group:
At Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:23:46 -0800, you wrote
>It's time for a CV joint and ECS Struts for my '91 Stealth R/T.
>Can anyone recommend a good shop in Portland, OR. Thanks in advvance.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:49:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Racer X Motorsports
Sounds like the 'Classic Pyramid (Ponzi) Scheme'?  Just my opinion.
At Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:49:39 -0500, you wrote
<msg edited>
>They told me that I need to send them the $80 to them for the starter kit....
>>You have to have 4 new cars each month for the year....
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:30:26 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Power Steering
Yes, you may have the key. Our steering is variable assist, so if the
speed input or steering angle input is bad, it might give zero assist,
although I have never heard of that(on any car). Seems more probable it
is a frozen/damaged valve somewhere.
Time to dig thru the manuals to determine check pionts.
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #344