Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, January 12
2004 Volume 02 : Number 343
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:04:55 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Welded Center Diff?
Definitely not, however I have not endeavoured into the tranny just
yet
(Will be doing so shortly to replace the output shaft in mine)
- -Cody
- -----Original Message-----
I assume that it wouldn't be possible to tear it down far enough with
the tranny still on the car, correct?
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:59:11 +0100
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
I recommend the best of them from ERL as it is the only one that comes
with
a high pressure pump and allows full control as well as it is expandable
as
you wish. It is even easy adaptable to other controllers like the Haltech
or
AMS.
What you must think about is that pre-pressurized tanks are not a
great
option as they go out too quickly and are for sure not the size you want
to
find a spot for in your engine bay. Other systems can use standard tanks
but
the pump doesn't provide a great spray pattern due to the fact that they
are
too small and not that powerful as desired.
Also there are mainly different levels of systems.
1. spray-on/off systems
2. volume control sprays relative to rpm, tps and/or boost
The ERL System 1 comes with a boost sensor that electrically switches
the
pump on at a specific boost level.
I do have the ERL System 2 installed that comes with additional
controller
and water valve that aloows to control the amount of water sprayed in
relation to boost and rpm (3D mapping). Thsi is like a fuel or ignition
map
that is related to two other dimensions.
Water Injection is a good solution if the Intercoolers cannot do their
work
or if it is just too expensive to replace them with bigger cores. The
EVOs
(at least IV-VI) had water sprays to the intercoollers what incereases
the
efficiency of the cores. Same can be done on our cars with any of the
WIS
but remember the pump and that it them must spray onto two cores.
Adding alcohol may increase the octane rating but you'll never know how
much
octane you are really running at the moment. ERL has now also a flow
meter
available where you can see how much water is injected. With this the
exact
amount of water to fuel can be determined.
For more information and understanding the theory check out their site
under
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:25:12 -0500
Subject: Team3S: Power Steering
I have a 92 Stealth SOHC. I live in Canada and over the past couple days
the temp dropped to -25 degrees celcius. Now I went to go out at nite so
I started up the car to warm it up.I mad its usually loud belt squealing
of a very cold engine. I let it run and it warmed up to a quiet purr
like usual for a warm engine. Then I went to leave and my steering was
impossible to turn. Like hard as if the engine was off. I was able to
drive around, but I had to pull down on one side of the wheel with both
hands to turn. And also, when I turn the wheel all the way. I dont hear
the typical power steering whine when you have turn too far. Now the
reservoir is at an appropriate level and I even tried to bleed the
system. With the car up on jacks, turning the wheel cause the fluid to
rise and lower. But still no power steering. Could my pump be shot? It
makes no noise what so ever.
Jason
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:17:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Qs on water injection
I think the good kits are $500ish or so.
it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
> How much does a water injection system cost?
>
> Who sells them?
>
> What are the benefits of water v water/alcohol injection?
>
> Do I need a metal Y pipe, or can it be installed in the plastic stock
pipe?
>
> Rich/slow old poop
> 94 VR4
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars."
>
- ---
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can help...asking is free!
:)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:14:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
- ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
> I recommend the best of them from ERL as it is the only one that
comes
with
> a high pressure pump and allows full control as well as it is
expandable
as
> you wish. It is even easy adaptable to other controllers like the
Haltech
or
> AMS.
>
Roger I will have to disagree with you on a few points. The ERL
system pump
is not designed for high HP applications. With a 350hp car you will
be
running about 375-450ml/minute assuming a 50/50 mix of water
methonal. The
ERL pump drops off at 300ml/minute to 40psi injection pressure. With
a
boost pressure of 18-20psi your WM effective injection pressure is
only
20psi. The goal of WM is to get the most cooling with the least
quanity
injected as the water displaces the oxygen of the air charge. Thus
you want
high pressure to atomise the WM as much as possible. The injection
nozzel
is also an important factor in the system. Both the ERL and
SnowPerformance
(SP) kits use a two chamber nozzel, but the SP nozzel has a venturie
type
orafise were as the ERL is not. You will get better atomization with
the SP
nozzel.
The SP pump is designed to maintain 140psi at a flow rate of 1.5
gallons/minute. There is also a larger pump that can do 220psi
at
2.2gal/min, but this usually used on large turbo deisel engines.
Don't get
me wrong, the ERL is a good system, but it is designed for smaller
engine
(4cyl) applications.
The 50/50 mix is a better choice then just straight water injection.
The
methonal helps work as anti-detonation and adds to HP. You can get
about
40HP with the SP system running water and about 80HP running WM, this
has
been dyno tested. So no reason to leave that extra 40HP on the
table.
> What you must think about is that pre-pressurized tanks are not a
great
> option as they go out too quickly and are for sure not the size you
want
to
> find a spot for in your engine bay.
I agree not to use a pre-pressurized tank, only leads to problems.
Tank
options for our cars could include the following:
1) 1gallon Euro style washer fluid tank that mounts under front clip.
(I
think Roger can sell these)
2) 2qt radiator overflow tank from 99 model monunts under clip ($35 is
what
I paid for mine from one of the good guy dealers)
3) Convert the stock washer fluid tank for WM injection (but then no
window
washing) Note: rear washer tank is to small for any practical road
racing
use.
4) The SP kit comes with a square 2qt tank with level sensor that could
be
monted in place of the battery (would require you to relocate battery
to
use)
> The ERL System 1 comes with a boost sensor that electrically switches
the
> pump on at a specific boost level.
So does the SP stage one kit for about $120 less.
> I do have the ERL System 2 installed that comes with additional
controller
> and water valve that aloows to control the amount of water sprayed
in
> relation to boost and rpm (3D mapping). Thsi is like a fuel or
ignition
map
> that is related to two other dimensions.
The ERL system is not true 3D mapping. It uses the injector dutycycle
to
control pump speed (which is not a bad thing) and a boost switch to
controll
on/off. Yes it works with two different variables or inputs but is
not a
true 3D map.
The SP controller measures boost pressure and has two user adjustable
settings, Start and Full On. Start is the boost pressure required
to
activate the system and Full On is the boost pressre for max injection
qty.
Start is adjustable from .5 to 8 psi and Full On goes from 2 to
25psi. The
controller has its own PWM contol for the pump and will vary the ramp
rate
of the injection qty linearlly between the two settings. Also not a
lookup
table or 3D mapping.
> Adding alcohol may increase the octane rating but you'll never know
how
much
> octane you are really running at the moment. ERL has now also a flow
meter
> available where you can see how much water is injected. With this
the
exact
> amount of water to fuel can be determined.
No big science here as the qty required is based on the HP of the car
and
then correctly sizeing the nozzel for the application. See
The ERL 2s system sells for $750 at 3SX, SP stage 2 kit is only $399.
The
ERL is a good system, but is it really worth $350 more?
Dan Labonte
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:26:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
> it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
I had mine plumbed into the stock plastic y-pipe and had no problems with
it. But like Geoff said, if you want to play it safe then go with a
metallic Y-pipe of some form.
I had the Spearco kit, and would probably not recommend it for serious
use. It did work, but I think at a minimum some form of low water
indicator for the tank would be a great idea. If you decide to go with
water/alcohol injection, remember to place the tank such that the fluid sloshes
towards the pump pickup when accelerating. ;-)
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:22:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
Ive also heard of people presurizing the tank with manifold pressure
so
that a pump doent have to make 60psi to pump 40.
> > it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
>
> I had mine plumbed into the stock plastic y-pipe and had no problems
with it. But like Geoff said, if you want to play it safe then go with a
metallic Y-pipe of some form.
>
> I had the Spearco kit, and would probably not recommend it for serious
use. It did work, but I think at a minimum some form of low water
indicator for the tank would be a great idea. If you decide to go with
water/alcohol injection, remember to place the tank such that the fluid sloshes
towards the pump pickup when accelerating. ;-)
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
>
>
- ---
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can help...asking is free!
:)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:30:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine dressup question
Jesse, light sanding on the coils would be fine. The coils have the
ridges
because they are a bunch of plates stack together. The plates help
reduce
Eddy Currents generated in the magnetic field or Flux path from the
transformer coil. Eddy currents cause extra heat so they are reduced.
The
worst thing to do would be to grind on the edges so that the plates
get
fused together. High temp paint should be ok. Usually the
plates are
coated with a thin layer of varnish which you will take off with to
much
sanding. Mine are so dirty on my car I can not tell if they ever
had
varnish or not on them.
Dan Labonte
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:07:19 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Power Steering
Two possibilities,
You pump may be shot and need a rebuild(which is not hard and can be
accomplished via a kit from the dealer. More likely that it's
your
steering rack that has worn out it's internal seals and needs
rebuilding/replacing. You can also buy a rebuild kit from the
dealer
rebuilt steering rack with a lifetime warranty for about $240.
- -Jeff
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:23:46 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Good Shop in Portland OR
It's time for a CV joint and ECS Struts for my '91 Stealth R/T.
Can anyone recommend a good shop in Portland, OR. Thanks in advvance.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:49:39 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Racer X Motorsports
I had the chance to get sponsored from Racer X and I would say don't
do
it. The contact is a lot of legal bull. The prices are not even
that
good, because you have to buy from them and to have parts install,
one
of their shops has to do it, not guarating for a discount. They told
me
that I need to send them the $80 to them for the starter kit but
after
the three times of them calling me, it was sent in the mail. The
prices
suck and to maintain the sponsorship is extremely difficult. You
have
to have 4 new cars each month for the year to get sponsored to get
the
money the discount. And that's after putting up the money in
front.
Tell you brother to get out when he can... It is money after the
year
and ONLY if they give you discounts... They won't say in
advanced..
Kraig
1991 Blue Stealth RT
1991 White 3000 GT VR4
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:09:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Racer X Motorsports
Hmmmm --- how many ways can you say scam !!!!
Jim Berry
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:39:49 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
Hi All,
I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the following
questions;
1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about
145,000 miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car
had a very feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and
during the 1st and 2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the Team3S
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a
depleted engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer
that I can take my car to.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:42:07 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
Hi All,
I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the following
questions;
1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about
145,000 miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car
had a very feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and
during the 1st and 2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the Team3S
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a
depleted engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer
that I can take my car to.
Thanking You,
Sreen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:42:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
> Hi All,
> I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the
following
questions;
> 1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about
145,000
miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car had a
very
feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and during the 1st
and
2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the
Team3S
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a
depleted
engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
> 2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer
that
I can take my car to.
- ----------------------->
Hey, Sreen,
Welcome! Since you're a new owner..., before answering you, I
hope that
you've browsed through the Team3S FAQ pages a bit, and that you understand
the
importance of having the *required* 60k-interval maintenance done
(replace
timing belt, tensioner, etc). It should have been done at 60k and
120k miles.
It's a fair bet that the previous owner did *not* want to spend the ~$900
or
so to have the work done before selling the car, so you should find out if
the
second 60k was done. As of that second maintenance, the water pump
should
also have been replaced, since the pump is only good for ~100,000 miles,
in
our experience. See our 60k page for details, but be SURE that it was
done,
or do the service right away. A broken timing belt is almost a
guarantee of a
trashed engine - if it breaks, you should not drive the car at all.
1. The solution is to clean out any old, gunky oil that may have
bubbles in
it, which prevents engine surfaces from getting the proper
lubrication. (You
can create foam in your oil if you overfill it.) You can clean the
engine
slowly, over time, by using oil additives which clean out the system (use
only
name-brand products), or you can do it quickly, with the popular remedy of
a
"thin-oil" rinse. The latter is to change the oil to the lightest one
you can
find, and run your car for 50 miles or so of normal driving (no
high-speed
runs or fast acceleration). Thin oil only offers minimal protection,
so you
don't want to make your engine work hard during this time. Hopefully,
this
will rinse out any old oil which has thickened. Then do a normal oil
change
with 10W-30 oil, and replace the filter with an OEM filter. If the
car has
been under-maintained, or if the previous owner used junk oil, this may
take a
couple of rinses to clean everything out.
2. Although I think I remember that Geoff Mohler found an OK dealer
in San
Jose, one of the shops we trust most in the Bay Area is Wynn's Motors in
San
Francisco. He has worked on over a dozen local members' cars (he's
done lots
of work on both my Stealth NT and my 3kGT VR-4, including installing a
new
engine, and 60k work...), and he's worth the 'big-city' prices he
charges.
Look on the "Good Guys" Dealers and Vendors Page for contact info, and
mention
Team3S and/or my name, since he gives us a discount.
Good luck!
- ---Forrest
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #343
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