Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Monday, January 12 2004   Volume 02 : Number 343
 
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:04:55 -0600
 
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
 
Subject: RE: Team3S: Welded Center Diff?
 
 
 
Definitely not, however I have not endeavoured into the tranny just yet
 
(Will be doing so shortly to replace the output shaft in mine)
 
 
 
- -Cody
 
 
 
- -----Original Message-----
 
I assume that it wouldn't be possible to tear it down far enough with
 
the tranny still on the car, correct?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:59:11 +0100
 
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
I recommend the best of them from ERL as it is the only one that comes with
 
a high pressure pump and allows full control as well as it is expandable as
 
you wish. It is even easy adaptable to other controllers like the Haltech or
 
AMS.
 
 
 
What you must think about is that pre-pressurized tanks are not a great
 
option as they go out too quickly and are for sure not the size you want to
 
find a spot for in your engine bay. Other systems can use standard tanks but
 
the pump doesn't provide a great spray pattern due to the fact that they are
 
too small and not that powerful as desired.
 
 
 
Also there are mainly different levels of systems.
 
1. spray-on/off systems
 
2. volume control sprays relative to rpm, tps and/or boost
 
 
 
The ERL System 1 comes with a boost sensor that electrically switches the
 
pump on at a specific boost level.
 
I do have the ERL System 2 installed that comes with additional controller
 
and water valve that aloows to control the amount of water sprayed in
 
relation to boost and rpm (3D mapping). Thsi is like a fuel or ignition map
 
that is related to two other dimensions.
 
 
 
Water Injection is a good solution if the Intercoolers cannot do their work
 
or if it is just too expensive to replace them with bigger cores. The EVOs
 
(at least IV-VI) had water sprays to the intercoollers what incereases the
 
efficiency of the cores. Same can be done on our cars with any of the WIS
 
but remember the pump and that it them must spray onto two cores.
 
 
 
Adding alcohol may increase the octane rating but you'll never know how much
 
octane you are really running at the moment. ERL has now also a flow meter
 
available where you can see how much water is injected. With this the exact
 
amount of water to fuel can be determined.
 
 
 
For more information and understanding the theory check out their site under
 
www.aquamist.co.uk
 
 
 
Roger G.
 
93 & 96 3000GT TT
 
www.rtec.ch
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:25:12 -0500
 
From: Planet <planet.j@sympatico.ca>
 
Subject: Team3S: Power Steering
 
 
 
I have a 92 Stealth SOHC. I live in Canada and over the past couple days
 
the temp dropped to -25 degrees celcius. Now I went to go out at nite so
 
I started up the car to warm it up.I mad its usually loud belt squealing
 
of a very cold engine. I let it run and it warmed up to a quiet purr
 
like usual for a warm engine. Then I went to leave and my steering was
 
impossible to turn. Like hard as if the engine was off. I was able to
 
drive around, but I had to pull down on one side of the wheel with both
 
hands to turn. And also, when I turn the wheel all the way. I dont hear
 
the typical power steering whine when you have turn too far. Now the
 
reservoir is at an appropriate level and I even tried to bleed the
 
system. With the car up on jacks, turning the wheel cause the fluid to
 
rise and lower. But still no power steering. Could my pump be shot? It
 
makes no noise what so ever.
 
 
 
Jason
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:17:06 -0600 (CST)
 
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
 
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
I think the good kits are $500ish or so.
 
 
 
it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
 
 
 
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:
 
 
 
> How much does a water injection system cost?
 
>
 
> Who sells them?
 
>
 
> What are the benefits of water v water/alcohol injection?
 
>
 
> Do I need a metal Y pipe, or can it be installed in the plastic stock pipe?
 
>
 
> Rich/slow old poop
 
> 94 VR4
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
>
 
> --
 
> To sub:   Email majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of 'subscribe 3sracers'.
 
> To unsub: Email majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of 'unsubscribe 3sracers'
 
> "Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars."
 
>
 
 
 
- ---
 
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com
 
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
 
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
 
Where do you buy YOUR brakes?  I can help...asking is free!  :)
 
"If its in stock, we have it!"
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:14:48 -0500
 
From: "Dan Labonte" <danlabonte@cox.net>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
- ----- Original Message -----
 
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
 
To: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
 
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 1:59 PM
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
 
 
> I recommend the best of them from ERL as it is the only one that comes
 
with
 
> a high pressure pump and allows full control as well as it is expandable
 
as
 
> you wish. It is even easy adaptable to other controllers like the Haltech
 
or
 
> AMS.
 
>
 
Roger I will have to disagree with you on a few points.  The ERL system pump
 
is not designed for high HP applications.  With a 350hp car you will be
 
running about 375-450ml/minute assuming a 50/50 mix of water methonal.  The
 
ERL pump drops off at 300ml/minute to 40psi injection pressure.  With a
 
boost pressure of 18-20psi your WM effective injection pressure is only
 
20psi.  The goal of WM is to get the most cooling with the least quanity
 
injected as the water displaces the oxygen of the air charge.  Thus you want
 
high pressure to atomise the WM as much as possible.  The injection nozzel
 
is also an important factor in the system.  Both the ERL and SnowPerformance
 
(SP) kits use a two chamber nozzel, but the SP nozzel has a venturie type
 
orafise were as the ERL is not.  You will get better atomization with the SP
 
nozzel.
 
 
 
The SP pump is designed to maintain 140psi at a flow rate of 1.5
 
gallons/minute.  There is also a larger pump that can do 220psi at
 
2.2gal/min, but this usually used on large turbo deisel engines.  Don't get
 
me wrong, the ERL is a good system, but it is designed for smaller engine
 
(4cyl) applications.
 
 
 
The 50/50 mix is a better choice then just straight water injection.  The
 
methonal helps work as anti-detonation and adds to HP.  You can get about
 
40HP with the SP system running water and about 80HP running WM, this has
 
been dyno tested.  So no reason to leave that extra 40HP on the table.
 
 
 
> What you must think about is that pre-pressurized tanks are not a great
 
> option as they go out too quickly and are for sure not the size you want
 
to
 
> find a spot for in your engine bay.
 
 
 
I agree not to use a pre-pressurized tank, only leads to problems.  Tank
 
options for our cars could include the following:
 
 
 
1) 1gallon Euro style washer fluid tank that mounts under front clip.  (I
 
think Roger can sell these)
 
 
 
2) 2qt radiator overflow tank from 99 model monunts under clip ($35 is what
 
I paid for mine from one of the good guy dealers)
 
 
 
3) Convert the stock washer fluid tank for WM injection (but then no window
 
washing) Note: rear washer tank is to small for any practical road racing
 
use.
 
 
 
4) The SP kit comes with a square 2qt tank with level sensor that could be
 
monted in place of the battery (would require you to relocate battery to
 
use)
 
 
 
> The ERL System 1 comes with a boost sensor that electrically switches the
 
> pump on at a specific boost level.
 
So does the SP stage one kit for about $120 less.
 
 
 
> I do have the ERL System 2 installed that comes with additional controller
 
> and water valve that aloows to control the amount of water sprayed in
 
> relation to boost and rpm (3D mapping). Thsi is like a fuel or ignition
 
map
 
> that is related to two other dimensions.
 
The ERL system is not true 3D mapping.  It uses the injector dutycycle to
 
control pump speed (which is not a bad thing) and a boost switch to controll
 
on/off.  Yes it works with two different variables or inputs but is not a
 
true 3D map.
 
The SP controller measures boost pressure and has two user adjustable
 
settings, Start and Full On.  Start is the boost pressure required to
 
activate the system and Full On is the boost pressre for max injection qty.
 
Start is adjustable from .5 to 8 psi and Full On goes from 2 to 25psi.  The
 
controller has its own PWM contol for the pump and will vary the ramp rate
 
of the injection qty linearlly between the two settings.  Also not a lookup
 
table or 3D mapping.
 
 
 
> Adding alcohol may increase the octane rating but you'll never know how
 
much
 
> octane you are really running at the moment. ERL has now also a flow meter
 
> available where you can see how much water is injected. With this the
 
exact
 
> amount of water to fuel can be determined.
 
 
 
No big science here as the qty required is based on the HP of the car and
 
then correctly sizeing the nozzel for the application.  See
 
http://www.snowperformance.net/installation.htm for more details on this.
 
 
 
The ERL 2s system sells for $750 at 3SX, SP stage 2 kit is only $399.  The
 
ERL is a good system, but is it really worth $350 more?
 
 
 
Dan Labonte
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:26:42 +0000
 
From: mjannusch@comcast.net
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
> it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
 
 
 
I had mine plumbed into the stock plastic y-pipe and had no problems with it.  But like Geoff said, if you want to play it safe then go with a metallic Y-pipe of some form.
 
 
 
I had the Spearco kit, and would probably not recommend it for serious use.  It did work, but I think at a minimum some form of low water indicator for the tank would be a great idea.  If you decide to go with water/alcohol injection, remember to place the tank such that the fluid sloshes towards the pump pickup when accelerating.  ;-)
 
 
 
- -Matt
 
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:22:31 -0600 (CST)
 
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Qs on water injection
 
 
 
Ive also heard of people presurizing the tank with manifold pressure so
 
that a pump doent have to make 60psi to pump 40.
 
 
 
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 mjannusch@comcast.net wrote:
 
 
 
> > it would be best to plumb into metal for reliability.
 
>
 
> I had mine plumbed into the stock plastic y-pipe and had no problems with it.  But like Geoff said, if you want to play it safe then go with a metallic Y-pipe of some form.
 
>
 
> I had the Spearco kit, and would probably not recommend it for serious use.  It did work, but I think at a minimum some form of low water indicator for the tank would be a great idea.  If you decide to go with water/alcohol injection, remember to place the tank such that the fluid sloshes towards the pump pickup when accelerating.  ;-)
 
>
 
> -Matt
 
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
 
>
 
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
>
 
 
 
- ---
 
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com
 
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
 
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
 
Where do you buy YOUR brakes?  I can help...asking is free!  :)
 
"If its in stock, we have it!"
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:30:08 -0500
 
From: "Dan Labonte" <danlabonte@cox.net>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: engine dressup question
 
 
 
Jesse, light sanding on the coils would be fine.  The coils have the ridges
 
because they are a bunch of plates stack together.  The plates help reduce
 
Eddy Currents generated in the magnetic field or Flux path from the
 
transformer coil. Eddy currents cause extra heat so they are reduced.  The
 
worst thing to do would be to grind on the edges so that the plates get
 
fused together.  High temp paint should be ok.  Usually the plates are
 
coated with a thin layer of varnish which you will take off with to much
 
sanding.  Mine are so dirty on my car I can not tell if they ever had
 
varnish or not on them.
 
 
 
Dan Labonte
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:07:19 -0600
 
From: "William J. Crabtree" <wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
 
Subject: RE: Team3S: Power Steering
 
 
 
Two possibilities,
 
 
 
You pump may be shot and need a rebuild(which is not hard and can be
 
accomplished via a kit from the dealer.  More likely that it's your
 
steering rack that has worn out it's internal seals and needs
 
rebuilding/replacing.  You can also buy a rebuild kit from the dealer
 
for this.  Autozone (www.autozone.com), here in the states, has a
 
rebuilt steering rack with a lifetime warranty for about $240.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
- -Jeff
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:23:46 -0800
 
From: "GLEN Anderson, Sr." <gla45@msn.com>
 
Subject: Team3S: Good Shop in Portland OR
 
 
 
It's time for a CV joint and ECS Struts for my '91 Stealth R/T.
 
Can anyone recommend a good shop in Portland, OR. Thanks in advvance.
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:49:39 -0500
 
From: Kraig Delaney <krgdelny@optonline.net>
 
Subject: RE: Team3S: Racer X Motorsports
 
 
 
I had the chance to get sponsored from Racer X and I would say don't do
 
it.  The contact is a lot of legal bull.  The prices are not even that
 
good, because you have to buy from them and to have parts install, one
 
of their shops has to do it, not guarating for a discount.  They told me
 
that I need to send them the $80 to them for the starter kit but after
 
the three times of them calling me, it was sent in the mail.  The prices
 
suck and to maintain the sponsorship is extremely difficult.  You have
 
to have 4 new cars each month for the year to get sponsored to get the
 
money the discount.  And that's after putting up the money in front.
 
Tell you brother to get out when he can...  It is money after the year
 
and ONLY if they give you discounts...  They won't say in advanced..
 
 
 
Kraig
 
1991 Blue Stealth RT
 
1991 White 3000 GT VR4
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:09:19 -0800
 
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@cox.net>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Racer X Motorsports
 
 
 
Hmmmm --- how many ways can you say scam !!!!
 
 
 
        Jim Berry
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:39:49 -0800
 
From: Sreen <SreenTallam@netscape.net>
 
Subject: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
 
 
 
Hi All,
 
 
 
I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the following
 
questions;
 
 
 
1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about
 
145,000 miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car
 
had a very feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and
 
during the 1st and 2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
 
subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the Team3S
 
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a
 
depleted engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
 
 
 
2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer
 
that I can take my car to.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:42:07 -0800
 
From: Sreen <SreenTallam@netscape.net>
 
Subject: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
 
 
 
Hi All,
 
 
 
I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the following
 
questions;
 
 
 
1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about
 
145,000 miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car
 
had a very feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and
 
during the 1st and 2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
 
subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the Team3S
 
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a
 
depleted engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
 
 
 
2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer
 
that I can take my car to.
 
 
 
Thanking You,
 
Sreen
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:42:05 -0800
 
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
 
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tick Noise from the Engine!!
 
 
 
From: "Sreen" <SreenTallam@netscape.net>
 
> Hi All,
 
> I am a new member of this group. I need some help in the following
 
questions;
 
> 1. I have a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT (Manual 5-speed) . It has about 145,000
 
miles on it. When I bought the car in September 2003, the car had a very
 
feeble "tick" noise. But now, when I start the engine and during the 1st and
 
2nd gears the "tick" noise is very dominant. But
 
 subsides in the higher gears (3, 4, 5). I saw an article in the Team3S
 
website for the "tick" problem and the solution was suggested as a depleted
 
engine oil. Is my car having the same problem?
 
> 2. Is there a reliable mechanic in Campbell, CA (USA) or even a dealer that
 
I can take my car to.
 
- ----------------------->
 
 
 
Hey, Sreen,
 
 
 
Welcome!  Since you're a new owner...,  before answering you, I hope that
 
you've browsed through the Team3S FAQ pages a bit, and that you understand the
 
importance of having the *required* 60k-interval maintenance done (replace
 
timing belt, tensioner, etc).  It should have been done at 60k and 120k miles.
 
It's a fair bet that the previous owner did *not* want to spend the ~$900 or
 
so to have the work done before selling the car, so you should find out if the
 
second 60k was done.  As of that second maintenance, the water pump should
 
also have been replaced, since the pump is only good for ~100,000 miles, in
 
our experience.  See our 60k page for details, but be SURE that it was done,
 
or do the service right away.  A broken timing belt is almost a guarantee of a
 
trashed engine - if it breaks, you should not drive the car at all.
 
 
 
1.  The solution is to clean out any old, gunky oil that may have bubbles in
 
it, which prevents engine surfaces from getting the proper lubrication.  (You
 
can create foam in your oil if you overfill it.)  You can clean the engine
 
slowly, over time, by using oil additives which clean out the system (use only
 
name-brand products), or you can do it quickly, with the popular remedy of a
 
"thin-oil" rinse.  The latter is to change the oil to the lightest one you can
 
find, and run your car for 50 miles or so of normal driving (no high-speed
 
runs or fast acceleration).  Thin oil only offers minimal protection, so you
 
don't want to make your engine work hard during this time.  Hopefully, this
 
will rinse out any old oil which has thickened.  Then do a normal oil change
 
with 10W-30 oil, and replace the filter with an OEM filter.  If the car has
 
been under-maintained, or if the previous owner used junk oil, this may take a
 
couple of rinses to clean everything out.
 
 
 
2.  Although I think I remember that Geoff Mohler found an OK dealer in San
 
Jose, one of the shops we trust most in the Bay Area is Wynn's Motors in San
 
Francisco.  He has worked on over a dozen local members' cars (he's done lots
 
of work on both my Stealth NT and my 3kGT VR-4, including installing a new
 
engine, and 60k work...), and he's worth the 'big-city' prices he charges.
 
Look on the "Good Guys" Dealers and Vendors Page for contact info, and mention
 
Team3S and/or my name, since he gives us a discount.
 
 
 
Good luck!
 
 
 
- ---Forrest
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
 
 
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #343
 
***************************************