Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, January 9
2004 Volume 02 : Number 340
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:45:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell
For stock system diagnostics, part replacements, etc., I won't use any
shop
other than Willie - he's the best there is. And if he doesn't
*know*
something, he has no problem saying so, or calling someone to get that
info.
He's replaced an engine for me, and when the new one was burning oil,
he
diagnosed it as bad rings, went back to Chrysler and got me a new
one. He's
done two sets of turbos (stock and upgrade), suspension work,
injectors,
brakes, and tons of diagnostics. He's on the Good Guys vendors page
not just
because of the Team3S discount he gives, but because he's terrific.
He's done
great work on many other members' cars, as well. He's not cheap - you
get
what you pay for. You have many 14-yr-old systems in your car that
may need
replacement at once (as I found out with my '91 VR-4). Have Willie's
guys
ever made a mistake? Sure they have - twice, out of working on all 3
cars and
dozens of repairs. But that's way fewer than I've seen in other
shops.
I agree with input you got from two other members-- Vacaville put your
timing
belt back 1 tooth off (or coolant got on your timing belt, which
deteriorated
it and allowed it to slip), and the cat is about ready for
replacement. Your
lousy economy can be attributed to using crappy gas (I've gotten 87 even
when
I paid for 91), clogged injectors (clean them), or even a few short trips
or
sitting in traffic. The only way to test fuel economy is on long
highway
trips, and never including local commutes or trips to the mall - there
are
just too many variables. When you go in for the emissions test, BTW,
be sure
to have the cats good and hot, by running the car on the highway for
15-20
minutes. Cats have to be hot to be efficient. Good luck!
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:48:36 -0800
Subject: RE: Team3S: PCV valve?
There is no plunger in there. Its a one-way ball valve. Put one end in
your
mouth (put a clean piece of hose over it if you are afraid of oil) then
blow
and suck. Valve should let air go one way and not the other. If the valve
is
sticky, its ok as long as it does not block the flow one way and seals
well
when sucking the other way.
Tyson Varosyan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell
> For stock system diagnostics, part replacements, etc., I won't use any
shop
> other than Willie - he's the best there is. And if he doesn't
*know*
Understand I am not slighting Willie, I have found him to be much quicker
than the other people I have tried (some issues but I overlook them). I
had a discussion with him on o2 sensor behavior and he understood it -
when others who should have did not. I am at make or break point and I
wanted the opinion of the most qualified 3S people I can get.
The timing belt cannot be the issue. Because while Vacaville could have
made the mistake (very believeable). For it to be a continuing issue, the
great Willie would have to have missed it as well (said in jest, but true,
he had it for a month during the turbo rebuild). I don't believe Willie
would miss that, therefore logic dictates it is not the problem.
I use 91 and +7 octane booster to avoid the urine coming from the
pumps.
> I paid for 91), clogged injectors (clean them), or even a few short
trips or
> sitting in traffic. The only way to test fuel economy is on long
highway
Do 90 mile trips qualify?
> trips, and never including local commutes or trips to the mall - there
are
> just too many variables. When you go in for the emissions test,
BTW, be sure
Yes cats need heat to burn off the extras, but that is just a trick, no
problem is solved, just hidden. I like things to be fixed, flawlessly,
else why bother?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:22:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Team3S: PCV valve?
My car doesn't leak a drop of anything, anywhere... except there is a
little
stream of oil that I keep wiping up right below the cap. The seal
doesn't
look bad, but I am going to replace it anyway. Question is, if it
keeps
leaking - might that be because of the PCV valve? Didn't know that
was a
symptom... but thinking now it makes sense.
- -Erik
'94 R/T
- ----- Original Message -----
> problems most people seem to with a bad PCV valve.
> leaking oil from the oil cap
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 07:00:08 -0000
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)
%%%%%
Someone on 3si is working on a logger for the '94-95 cars, but I
haven't
been keeping tabs on it as I now have an AEM ECU and have all the logging
I
could dream of.
%%%%%
Here's a link to the thread (like most on 3SI, a real PITA to wade
through):
My fingers are crossed!!
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
*** Team3S, 3SI #0030, GTOUK #155
***
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 06:15:02 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Thanks to the feedback from a number of Team3S participants, I plan to get
a
set of Blizzak tires for winter use when I move to Salt Lake City in a
few
weeks. If I can find a set, that is - I've had trouble finding them
listed
online.
I'm thinking of getting a tire pressure monitoring system installed at
the
same time and would appreciate feedback from folks who have used such
a
system or have been following developments.
The SmarTire system is attractive because it includes both pressure
and
temperature monitoring. Any idea how valuable the temperature
monitoring
is? It monitors air temperature inside the tire from a sensor mounted
on
the rim - about as far from the interior surface of the tire as you can
get.
The Intellivalve system appears to be easier to install, but doesn't
include
temp monitoring and costs about the same.
I plan to have my winter and regular tires mounted on separate rims,
and
would like to have monitors installed on both sets, but use the same
readout
box. Has anyone done this or looked into it?
Thanks,
Michael
92 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:34:55 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell
comment was one of the many things that keeps me worried about my
car."
Are you sure you don't have a fuel system leak somewhere? (I
apoligize if this has already come up)
<<<I don't like to bother this group or anyone about my issues,
but am runing out of options.>>>
Why not? That's what we are here for, and hopefully we can
help. There is a LOT of talent in this group, and it is a great
resource.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:39:57 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: PCV valve?
I just replaced my PCV with OEM just because I was doing a lot of
preventative and "aesthetic" work this summer. When you shake the valve
moderately, you should hear the innards (whatever they are) clicking
around. If not, you can try to unclog it by using brake cleaner, mineral
spirits, or similar solvent. Or you can spend a few bucks and replace
it. But it should move relatively freely.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:43:39 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: PCV valve?
Erik, yes that can be a symptom because a stuck PCV will increase the
pressure under the valve cover. However, our oil caps are known to leak,
which is why I keep an extra! ;-) So that is probably your
problem.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:58:22 +0100
Subject: RE: Team3S: PCV valve?
At 08:39 08.01.2004 -0500, Starkey, Jr., Joseph wrote:
>I just replaced my PCV with OEM just because I was doing a lot of
>preventative and "aesthetic" work this summer. When you shake the
valve
>moderately, you should hear the innards (whatever they are) clicking
>around. If not, you can try to unclog it by using brake cleaner,
mineral
>spirits, or similar solvent. Or you can spend a few bucks and
replace
>it. But it should move relatively freely.
And this is why the stock PCV valve is a cheap design and not worth to be
replaced ! If you run 1 bar of boost a longer time the stock valve may go
south soon again. Get away from any problems with a Krank-Ventskit. They
are not cheap but a fire and forget mod and you'll never have to think
about leaky oil filer or a clogged PCV.
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:37:04 -0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: PCV valve?
>> ... stock PCV valve is a cheap design ...
How so?
>> If you run 1 bar of boost a longer time the stock valve may
go
>> south soon again.
And why is that? There are no parts to wear in the PCV valve when it is
closed during boost operation. The plunger is seated against the body and the
springs are relaxed. I guess there could be some wear from the plunger being
seated against the body. But has *anyone* *ever* observed this wear on the
plunger?
========================================
For a description of our PCV valve and its operation (including pics of the
pieces inside) see my web page below.
On that page is also discussion of the Krank Vents and my experience with
them.
The PCV when in "good" operating condition will "rattle" as you shake it
(off the car, of course). However, this test cannot evaluate the strength of the
springs or the completeness of the seal or the metering of the tapered *plunger*
(there is no ball valve inside our PCV valve).
A used PCV valve that is cleaned (use a solvent for oil or grease) will
likely work just as well as a new one (some dealers want over $20 for one!). If
clogged completely, there still is a rather large hose that allows venting of
the rocker covers (and therefore the crankcase) and so "overpressuring" is not a
worry; but there may be heavy oil deposits in the intake hose to the rear
turbo.
Typically, the oil cap gasket leaks on our cars; it does not mean the
rocker covers are unusually pressurized. Mine leaked before and after installing
the Krank Vents. The cure for me was to add a second gasket (old ones are often
quite hard and do not seal well). The oil cap gasket can be purchased from Mitsu
for about $2 (no need to but a new oil *cap*). I made a second gasket from an
old rubber (huge) truck tire innertube I have (same piece I cut rings from for
my Ground Control installation). The extra gasket *will* stop the leaking. The
Krank Vents may or may not.
I recommend retaining the stock PCV valve when installing the Krank Vents.
If no PCV valve is installed, then the Krank Vents cause an unusally high vacuum
at idle in the crankcase and rocker cover. There is no advantage to this,
performance-wise or otherwise. At high engine load (during boost), the PCV valve
is "closed", as is the Krank Vent, and so removal of the PCV valve again
presents no advantage.
The main advantage of the Krank Vent (near the PCV Valve) is that it
absolutely prevents any air flow from the pressurized intake manifold into the
rocker cover. I am not sure our PCV valve can guaranty this.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:39:44 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: PCV valve?
Not me. I have a 91 Stealth TT, and this summer was the first time I
had to change my PCV valve. I changed it not because it was bad, but
because after 12 years, I thought it was time to just do so.
<<< Jeff Lucius wrote: And why is that? There are no parts
to wear in the PCV valve when it is closed during boost operation. The plunger
is seated against the body and the springs are relaxed. I guess there could be
some wear from the plunger being seated against the body. But has *anyone*
*ever* observed this wear on the plunger?>>>
Above email is for intended recipient only and may be confidential and
protected by attorney/client privilege.
If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
immediately.
Unauthorized use or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:23:05 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Temp monotoring seems to be more important for truckers carring HEAVY
loads.
I use the SmarTire and it works fine.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:34:16 +0100
Subject: Re: Team3S: PCV valve?
At 14:37 08.01.2004 +0000, Jeff Lucius wrote:
> >> ... stock PCV valve is a cheap design ...
>
>How so?
In all 3S cars I saw with upped boost and older than my 1996, the valves
where not in the best conditions. Some seemed not to be able to withstand
the cylces with higher boost. Even when applying pressure after cleaning
they leaked. I never drilled one out so I can't say what went bad
inside.
> >> If you run 1 bar of boost a longer time the stock valve may
go
> >> south soon again.
>
>And why is that? There are no parts to wear in the PCV valve when it is
>closed during boost operation. The plunger is seated against the body
and
>the springs are relaxed. I guess there could be some wear from the
plunger
>being seated against the body. But has *anyone* *ever* observed this
wear
>on the plunger?
My guess too. Half of the customers got a new valve the others wanted to
have that Krank Vents (cost issue).
My only experience is that I don't have a leaky oil cap anymore in my 96
since I have installed the crank vents. No problem on all the others so far
too.
It would be interesting to measure the crankcase pressure during different
driving conditions and with different solutions (cleaned vs. new vs.
KVs)
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:47:01 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
<<<Sharon, Michael & Dashiell Rhoden wrote: "The
Intellivalve system appears to be easier to install, but doesn't include
temp monitoring and costs about the same.">>>
I was looking at these earlier
and, according to the Intellivalve website, the Intellivalve system does monitor
temperature: "The Intellivalve(tm) intelligent wireless system
incorporates four individual wireless transmitters in all wheels that transmit
radio signals to the monitor. This gives the driver an instant readout of
the tire pressure and temperature of each wheel." The website boasts temp
accuracy within 2 degrees. I've decided to pass on the system for now
because I just bought a set of SSR GT-3's with Bridgestone Pole Positions on
them. They're not even on the car yet, so I don't want to have to
dismount, remount, and re-balance all 4 wheels.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:10:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: PCV valve?
Jeff stole my idea! I have had a second rubber gasket under the
stock
oil cap gasket for two years already and had never had any leaks from
my
oil cap. I cut my gasket from a motorcycle inner tube. It is not oil
resistant as it probably should have been but the second gasket being
underneath the stock one is compressed very tightly, so the oil does
not
get a chance to penetrate the rubber and swell and destroy it, so it
works
just fine. The stock gasket if used alone is junk. I checked mine
recently
and on my 9-year old car it is as hard as plastic. How can anyone expect
it
to seal anything!
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:35:25 -0500
Subject: Team3S: gage plastic window removal
I know this is dumb question for most. But I'm trying to remove the
clear
plastic window covering the speedometer-
tachometer gages. The miliage reset stem won't pull through the hole in
the
plastic. Does this stem
unscrew? Mine doesn't appear to do so, it just turns. Or does the
plastic
have to be tilted at just the
right angle for the stem to slip through.
Thanks for any help,
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 11:34:12 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: gage plastic window removal
The reset stem does not unscrew. It actually snaps and locks in very
tightly. The plastic needs to be titled just at the right angle to slip it
through. If you pull on the stem, you will pull your speedo apart, and the
needle will go flying off. Don't ask me how I know. . . just take my word
for it. To remove the clear plastic window, you need to remove
the entire gauge assembly from the dash. Then Look around the edges of the
assembly-- you'll see the places where the window snaps on.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:58:26 -0500
Subject: RE: Team3S: gage plastic window removal
I pulled the stem off the speedo on a '94 3000GT I was parting out
and
everything went fine. It was tight and I needed to use pliers to get
a
good enough grip, but it came out in one piece and I was able to put
it
back in later and have it function normally. It may depend on
the
construction of the individual speedo gauge. Some tolerances may
be
closer than others. I tried like a mother to slide the plastic over
the
knob, but maybe I just didn't use a steep enough angle. As such,
I
guess it's pull at your own risk.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:33:10 -0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: PCV valve?
>> It would be interesting to measure the crankcase pressure
>> during different driving conditions and with different
>> solutions (cleaned vs. new vs. KVs)
I agree. In fact, I suspect my crankcase pressure may be higher than
"normal". This may be why Krank Vents did not improve my "leaky oil fill cap"
problem.
My engine was rebuilt by a "Chevy 350" specialist. Back in 1997 it was hard
to find mechanics and shops (at least in the Denver, CO area) that had rebuilt
our fairly unique steel-alloy blocks. And it may still be. I have never checked
compression or leak down. I don't know how well the rings are sealing. My intake
hoses are not excessively lined with oil film. Yet ....
Regardless, we will get the most blow-by during boost (heavy engine load).
And during boost the intake manifold is pressurized and so cannot extract the
extra gases from the rocker covers/crankcase. The PCV valve and upper Krank Vent
cannot help us during boost (they are both closed) - except to prevent
additional pressure from the intake manifold entering the crankcase. During
boost the only escape route for blow-by gas and crankcase pressure is through
the rear rocker cover PCV hose to the intake hose. Again, the lower Krank Vent
is no help in extricating blow-by gases.
It is not that I am not a fan of the Krank Vents. I just believe their use
has limited value. The upper Krank Vent is the most useful because it eliminates
any chance of boost pressure leaving the intake manifold and going into the
front rocker cover area. The lower Krank Vent hardly helps anything.
My main objection to not using a PCV valve with the Krank Vents is that the
excessive vacuum may draw *unfiltered* air into the engine - past the oil fill
cap gasket, the dipstick seal, leaky oil gaskets, whatever. In any case, the
excessive crankcase vacuum at idle has no advantage for the engine, and the
extra airflow into the manifold may be disruptive (and unmetered).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:59:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Temp as measured by those is useless for the most part.
Pressure is whats important.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:44:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
For street driving pressure does not matter but for the track I would
not
mind knowing when my tires have warmed up and when they are about to
overheat. Those FWD and RWD drag racers might also get some useful
temperature information during the tire burnout. That us all assuming
that
the tread temperature somehow correlates to the temperature inside the
tire
that is being measured.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:53:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Phillip,
Tire pressure does matter on the street because you can ruin a tire running
it too low.
I don't like to buy sets of tires because one goes bad.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:58:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Ah, I forgot that there are a few of those Ford Explored drivers on
the
road still.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:30:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
I'm not sure I understand your comment.
What I find is the AWD compensates so well I can't tell when a tire is low,
so I meter them
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:46:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
Pressure *does* matter for street driving-- underinflation is the #1 cause
of
blowouts.
Such a temp correlation would only be approximate, when exact
tread-temp
accuracy is necessary. If you could design a breakaway microfiber
transducer
that would run right to the outer layer of the tread (and wear away as
the
tread wore down), that would be the only "in-tire" monitoring system
that
could be accurate enough. OR, you could use an external system, save
a mil or
two in R&D, and point an infrared sensor at the tread...
- ---Forrest (lifelong 'PopSci' reader)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:00:11 -0700
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
You know eventually some insurance company will REQUIRE technology like
this
on any vehicle they insure.
Then the backroom bribes to legislators start.................
Of course the whole system MUST hooked up to the blackbox to be sure
you
didn't ignore the warnings......
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:52:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tire Pressure Monitors
I dont buy that..
AWD cant compensate for what a low tire feels like..they just FEEL
different.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:15:27 EST
Subject: Team3S: Rim problem part 2
I posted a few weeks ago about my leaking stock rims on my 97 SL.
Today I went shopping for new ones. The size is 17x 8.5. I went to
every
shop I know and spoke to everyone I could. The biggest size I could find is
17x
7.5. Most of those will not fit because of the tire offset
I do not want a smaller contact patch obviously, nor do I wish to waste the
17 inch tires I have by moving to 18 in rims. Can anyone offer advice on
where
I can find these 8.5 wide rims? Fixing the stock rims is not really an
option.
No one in NJ will do it, so I would have to ship them to PA to get it
done.
THis would be a last resort.
thank you for the help
Mike
- -97 SL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:28:36 EST
Subject: Team3S: Rim problem part 2
I posted a few weeks ago about my leaking stock rims on my 97 SL.
Today I went shopping for new ones. The size is 17x 8.5. I went to
every
shop I know and spoke to everyone I could. The biggest size I could find is
17x
7.5. Most of those will not fit because of the tire offset
I do not want a smaller contact patch obviously, nor do I wish to waste the
17 inch tires I have by moving to 18 in rims. Can anyone offer advice on
where
I can find these 8.5 wide rims? Fixing the stock rims is not really an
option.
No one in NJ will do it, so I would have to ship them to PA to get it
done.
THis would be a last resort.
thank you for the help
Mike
- -97 SL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:59:04 -0600
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rim problem part 2
Here are four 8.5 in. wide 17 in. rims.
autoModel=3000GT+VR4&autoYear=1994&autoModClar=
Rich/slows old poop
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 20:00:33 -0600
Subject: Team3S: Rim problem part 2 oops
Oops. Those are 17 x 9 in. rims.
______________________
Here are four 8.5 in. wide 17 in. rims.
autoModel=3000GT+VR4&autoYear=1994&autoModClar=
Rich/slows old poop
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:18:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Rim problem part 2
>---------snip---------> Fixing the stock rims is not really an
option. No
one in NJ will do it, so I would have to ship them to PA to get it
done.
THis would be a last resort.
> thank you for the help
> Mike
> -97 SL
- ------------------------->
Having your rims fixed is a matter of making a ~2-hour drive to
Farmingdale,
NY, to drop them off at Wheels America. They'll straighten, repair
and
repaint the rims for $109 each, including a polycoat and a lifetime
warranty
against chipping. Turnaround time is 24 hours, and you can either
make
another trip to pick them up or they will ship them to you. The
cheapest rims
you can buy are around $200 each, or $800 for a set, +tax, +shipping.
This
way will cost you ~$500 (including shipping on the way back) and they
will
look like new stock rims. Go to
www.fixrim.com for phone, maps, and
driving
directions.
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 04:55:03 +0000
Subject: Team3S: Welded Center Diff?
Okay, so let's say that theoretically I could get my hands on a center diff
/ VCU, and I wanted to weld it so that I could swap it into my 6-speed tranny
and run without a transfercase to strap the car onto a dyno...
Where would be the best place(s) to weld it? Around the input and
output of the viscous coupling itself? Disassemble it and weld the pinion
gears together? Weld the planetary carrier to the diff case?
How nasty would it be to swap it in there?
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:03:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Welded Center Diff?
Matt - Ask Gatecrasher "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>. He has done it
for his hybrid FWD TT. Not sure if he had a 5 or 6 speed tranny there
though.
I know DSM guys do it all the time just to take their car to a 2WD dyno, so
it must be relatively easy for them, but nothing is easy on our cars.
Philip
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #340
***************************************