Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth  Wednesday, January 7 2004  Volume 02 : Number 339




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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, merritt@cedar-rapids.net wrote:
> I bet the timing belt is off a tooth. When they replaced the water pump,
> they should have done the timing belt, too. Dealers are notorious for
> screwing up a perfectly good car. They also take your car for a joy ride,
> and blow pistons and things. You don't ever want to go to a dealer for
> anything except warranty work.
>
> Do you have a sign on your forehead that says "screw me"? Man, you are
> getting some awfully bad diagnostic work.

Apparently, trying to find someone honest or compotent... I am convinced
that "society" is useless. Funny thing is, I asked on this newsgroup who
to go to in my area - and Willie at Wynn's was recommended. Its such a
pain, I work almost all day to buy 1 hour of time from these people.

>
> Vacaville Dodge messed up your car would be my guess. You need to find a
> good TT mechanic, not a dealer. Ship it to my tuner in Des Moines, Iowa.
> He'll fix it.

Sorry, I think thats I bit out of my range. But yes, Vacaville Dodge
started this snowball.

>
> Rich/slow old poop

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:59:37 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

Clogged cats are a possibility, but they don't clog unless there is
something very, very wrong with the combustion in the first place. Get
behind your car after you get back from driving it and smell. Without
sticking your nose in the tailpipe, you should not smell much exhaust at all
if any. There should also be no noticeable smoke coming from the pipes. If
you have ether, there is a combustion problem.

Unfortunately, there are tons of issues that can cause that. Assuming that
you dont have a physical problem like a burned out cylinder or a slipped
timing belt, the pocket logger may be of help.

Log the following:
RPM
TPS
O2
Injector P/W (Duty Cycle)
Air flow (or air volume, I don't remember which our cars use, but it should
be obvious once you look at it)
IAC
O2 Enrichment
Accel Enrichment

Drive the car around a while, do various things. Idle, rev, floor it in 3rd,
redline in 2nd or 3rd (make sure to do it in a safe place). Save the data
file to your Palm and name it "carlog".

Then sync your palm with your computer and look for a file named CARLOG.PDB
Send that file to someone that knows how to look at it on this board. I will
look at it if you want, but I'm not an expert by any means. Matter of fact,
I am troubleshooting similar issues on my VR4, but unfortunately with a much
smaller budget than you.

Don't give up, and stop taking your car to dealers. Learn to work on it
yourself! Get together with a local 3/S chapter in your area (there are tons
of em in Cali) and go to "tech days" or talk with group about your issues.
One expert looking at your car for 30 seconds can be better than 30 experts
on this board whom are unable to see and feel your pain.

One other thing that never hurts to do is a compression test. It will test
mechanical workings of the block and reveal bent valves, burned pistons or
broken rings. A tester should not cost more than $30-40 and if you can
unscrew a spark plug, you can do the test youself.

Tyson Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.com
www.up-times.com
206-715-TECH (8324)

UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of dark@non-corporeal.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:11 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell


I have a 91 TT and when I bought it at 75k on odo (I am its second owner)
it made 21 mpg. I took it to Vacaville Dodge to get the water pump replaced
(was leaking). Suddenly milage went down to 19 or so. At this point they
replaced my front  because of a leak. They still did not fix or explain
the fuel issue or the powerloss that came with it. I was ready to do some
damage but family decided jail should not be in my future.

So I took my lumps and took it all the way to Wynn's in SF. Currently at
17 mpg. He said my  turbo's were dead. Ok, fine, Rebuild them. And at my
request (and some parts I brought in), the 60k was done just in case,
fuel filter and all o2 sensors replaced. New MAS used CAS. Still at 17,
he checked again and said the thermostat sensor was loose. No joy. Just
today at 15.5 mpg. Willie said he would look into it and I'll call him
late this week.

There is no mods to the car (have yet to fix it first). All this has
happend over a period of 7 months (3 spent in a shop). My pocketlogger
doesn't show anything I would recognize as bad (which is admittedly
little, little to no knock, no abnormal pressure issues). What am I/ are
we missing? At this point I feel I have done my best effort. I love the
car but even I have limits. I have spent over 5k on this. If I cannot fix
it I have to trash it - it'll never pass smog in CA. Can anyone guess the
problem? Or make an offer on my money pit?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 08:55:19 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

let's start with the simple, cheap, and obvious things without high technology logging and diagnosis.

1) did they change the spark plugs when they did the 60K service?  This is not always done.
2) did they change the spark plug wires when they did the 60K service?
3) have you ever run a can of injector cleaner through the car?

You described a sudden decrease in gas mileage.  Any other symptoms, like cutting out at high speed WOT?  Why did they say the turbos were bad?  Do you have a real boost gauge on the car?

How does the car idle?  smoothly and at the correct rpm?

Have you checked for leaks in the intake side?  How does the vacuum tubing look?

The timing belt being off a tooth seems like a good possibility too.

Chuck Willis 


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 10:19:15 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

I earlier asked a question about installing larger injectors without a
fuel computer, and as I suspected that wasn't really an option.  My
other question is can I install a set of 13G turbos on my '95 VR4 and
use them without the larger injectors, fuel computer, high-flow fuel
pump, etc.  My turbos are pretty much shot at 98,000 miles.  The car
doesn't do much during boost, and I get a lovely shot of black smoke out
the exhaust if I really try to get on it.  Considering my wife's Stealth
still goes like a bat out of hell, and my car runs fine otherwise and
still gets decent gas mileage,I think I've got some dead turbos.  I was
hoping to install the 13G turbos first and then worry about the
injectors, fuel computer, etc. later.  Is this a viable option?  Any
advice?

Thanks,

Greg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:27:02 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

In 99% of the cases one or both O2 sensors are shot.

After some time the precats indeed can get klogged. In the case of one of
my customers the grid of the cat was really looking like it grew together.
My estimation was that it probably only hat 1/3 of the flow than before.
Also the outlet and wastegate area of the turbo was totally white
indicating very high temps that could not go away from there.

Fuel consumption was about 18 liters/100km (please recalc yourself to mpg)
what is 50% more than usual on mixed driving (12l / 100km mixed is normal).

A jumped timing belt may not cause such a low mpg, but as Charles stated,
an erratic idle may point into this direction.

Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 08:55 07.01.2004 -0600, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>let's start with the simple, cheap, and obvious things without high
>technology logging and diagnosis.
>
>1) did they change the spark plugs when they did the 60K service?  This is
>not always done.
>2) did they change the spark plug wires when they did the 60K service?
>3) have you ever run a can of injector cleaner through the car?
>
>You described a sudden decrease in gas mileage.  Any other symptoms, like
>cutting out at high speed WOT?  Why did they say the turbos were bad?  Do
>you have a real boost gauge on the car?
>
>How does the car idle?  smoothly and at the correct rpm?
>
>Have you checked for leaks in the intake side?  How does the vacuum tubing
>look?
>
>The timing belt being off a tooth seems like a good possibility too.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:36:32 -0000
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET <Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?

Is 3SX the only company offering replacement struts for the 3000 other than
the dealer?  I have the ECS suspension option and is it worth keeping that
or should i just use 3SX's replacements and do away with it....Not wanting
to spend $2000 on suspension, just want to repair what i have
failing...thanks for the help...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:36:49 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

Yes, it is. But go with something larger that are worth the money, GT357
Magnum at least ;-)

Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

still gets decent gas mileage,I think I've got some dead turbos.  I was
>hoping to install the 13G turbos first and then worry about the
>injectors, fuel computer, etc. later.  Is this a viable option?  Any
>advice?


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 09:45:27 -0600
From: "Mohammad Farooqi" <MFarooqi@Insight.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?

Try www.rockauto.com
They have replacement struts and other parts (new) at very low prices. Parts come with
warrenties also!!

Mohammad
1995 3000GT base

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:37 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?



Is 3SX the only company offering replacement struts for the 3000 other than
the dealer?  I have the ECS suspension option and is it worth keeping that
or should i just use 3SX's replacements and do away with it....Not wanting
to spend $2000 on suspension, just want to repair what i have
failing...thanks for the help...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:13:46 -0000
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET <Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...  Does the VR car and the SL have th e same suspension??  HELP!

The dealer asked me is it an R or U car...The R is the turbo car but does
the SL with ECS have the same thing as the VR cars when it comes to struts?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mohammad Farooqi [mailto:MFarooqi@Insight.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:45 AM
To: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?


Try www.rockauto.com
They have replacement struts and other parts (new) at very low prices. Parts
come with
warrenties also!!

Mohammad
1995 3000GT base

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:37 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?


Is 3SX the only company offering replacement struts for the 3000 other than
the dealer?  I have the ECS suspension option and is it worth keeping that
or should i just use 3SX's replacements and do away with it....Not wanting
to spend $2000 on suspension, just want to repair what i have
failing...thanks for the help...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:19:21 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

They're a little larger than what I'm looking for :-).  To properly use
those I'd probably need to replace the precats and possibly get a
different MAS setup and intercooler pipes.    I've already got a 3" DNP
exhaust including the downpipe, so I think with the 550 CC injectors and
the Supra fuel pump running about 16 psi with the 13G's will do the
trick.  The GT-347 is also an option, but I'm not sure which is better.
Any thoughts?  I use this car as my everyday driver and just want to
make sure no late model Camaro SS can take me.  My father-in-law's can
just keep up with me, and that's just unacceptable! :-P

Greg


>>> Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> 1/7/2004 10:36:49 AM >>>
Yes, it is. But go with something larger that are worth the money,
GT357
Magnum at least ;-)



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:29:13 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...  Does the VR car and the SL have th e same suspension??  HELP!

I believe the fronts are the same, however the rears are definitely
different.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:14 AM
To: 'Mohammad Farooqi'; Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts... Does the VR car and the SL
have th e same suspension?? HELP!

The dealer asked me is it an R or U car...The R is the turbo car but
does
the SL with ECS have the same thing as the VR cars when it comes to
struts?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mohammad Farooqi [mailto:MFarooqi@Insight.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:45 AM
To: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?


Try www.rockauto.com
They have replacement struts and other parts (new) at very low prices.
Parts
come with
warrenties also!!

Mohammad
1995 3000GT base

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:37 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?



Is 3SX the only company offering replacement struts for the 3000 other
than
the dealer?  I have the ECS suspension option and is it worth keeping
that
or should i just use 3SX's replacements and do away with it....Not
wanting
to spend $2000 on suspension, just want to repair what i have
failing...thanks for the help...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:34:03 -0600
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

That's a tricky question.  I've got a friend with a Heads/Cam Camaro SS
Auto with a stall running 11.10's at 121+ in the 1/4... So, are you
wanting to beat heavily modded ones, stock ones, or mildly modded ones
(another friends LS1 car: headers / borla / intake, runs 12.8's at 111)

???

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Wurst
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:19 AM
To: TEAM3S@team3s.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

They're a little larger than what I'm looking for :-).  To properly use
those I'd probably need to replace the precats and possibly get a
different MAS setup and intercooler pipes.    I've already got a 3" DNP
exhaust including the downpipe, so I think with the 550 CC injectors and
the Supra fuel pump running about 16 psi with the 13G's will do the
trick.  The GT-347 is also an option, but I'm not sure which is better.
Any thoughts?  I use this car as my everyday driver and just want to
make sure no late model Camaro SS can take me.  My father-in-law's can
just keep up with me, and that's just unacceptable! :-P

Greg


>>> Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> 1/7/2004 10:36:49 AM >>>
Yes, it is. But go with something larger that are worth the money,
GT357
Magnum at least ;-)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 17:33:45 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

Our european 3000GT have the 13G stock ... not worth the money.

No, for 357 or Magnums you don't need anything else but with a 13G.

Why do you go with 550cc when you don't have the turbos that provide enough
air without running out of the efficiency field ? Discharge temp goes too
high with increased boost, the stock intercoolers cannot provide enough
cooling and too hot air will enter the combustion chamber. the result is
knock what retards the timing and causes power loss at least.

Any SS will eat you if the path is not gone properly.

Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

At 11:19 07.01.2004 -0500, Greg Wurst wrote:
>They're a little larger than what I'm looking for :-).  To properly use
>those I'd probably need to replace the precats and possibly get a
>different MAS setup and intercooler pipes.    I've already got a 3" DNP
>exhaust including the downpipe, so I think with the 550 CC injectors and
>the Supra fuel pump running about 16 psi with the 13G's will do the
>trick.  The GT-347 is also an option, but I'm not sure which is better.
>Any thoughts?  I use this car as my everyday driver and just want to
>make sure no late model Camaro SS can take me.  My father-in-law's can
>just keep up with me, and that's just unacceptable! :-P
>
>Greg
>
>
> >>> Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> 1/7/2004 10:36:49 AM >>>
>Yes, it is. But go with something larger that are worth the money,
>GT357
>Magnum at least ;-)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 11:55:50 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

Any heavily modified SS is out of the range of what I'm looking to
spend.  Being able to beat a stock or slightly modified SS will be
enough to me.  That should also take care of most Corvettes with the
possible exception of a Z06 or maybe an old ZR1.  Of course, modified
Corvettes can easily take me unless I'm willing to drop about $10,000
for a complete engine job (which I'm not).

Greg


>>> cody <overclck@satx.rr.com> 1/7/2004 11:34:03 AM >>>
That's a tricky question.  I've got a friend with a Heads/Cam Camaro
SS
Auto with a stall running 11.10's at 121+ in the 1/4... So, are you
wanting to beat heavily modded ones, stock ones, or mildly modded ones
(another friends LS1 car: headers / borla / intake, runs 12.8's at
111)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:04:57 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

I got a really good deal on the 550's, and I just couldn't bring myself
to buy 450's knowing that they'd only be good for 13g's at best.  I may
one day go with 15g's, so at least I could keep the injectors.

My main goal is to run the best setup I can maintaining the stock
intercoolers and piping and limiting boost to at most 16psi so I don't
need better pistons and such.  I also wanted to keep the stock TD04
housing so as to keep from buying new headers and the like.  The GT357
is a viable option, but I'm not sure if I can get the maximum use out of
it without larger intercoolers or a front mount intercooler.  If I want
to go that route, I'll go with 15g turbos.  While not perfectly matched,
I think I can get a successful setup with the 550 injectors and a 13g
class turbo.  Of course, I have little experience with forced induction
and am always open to suggestions. :-)

Greg


>>> Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch> 1/7/2004 11:33:45 AM >>>
Why do you go with 550cc when you don't have the turbos that provide
enough
air without running out of the efficiency field ? Discharge temp goes
too
high with increased boost, the stock intercoolers cannot provide enough

cooling and too hot air will enter the combustion chamber. the result
is
knock what retards the timing and causes power loss at least.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:15 -0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

Pressure leaks after the turbo's seem the only likely cause I can think
of.
If the MAS is seeing huge ammounts of air in, but some is not making it
to cylinders, too much fuel is dumped in.

Can't imagine the valves or rings are bad at 75k miles.
Spark plugs and wires were checked? at some point?

Kurt

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of dark@non-corporeal.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:11 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell


I have a 91 TT and when I bought it at 75k on odo (I am its second
owner)
it made 21 mpg. I took it to Vacaville Dodge to get the water pump
replaced (was leaking). Suddenly milage went down to 19 or so. At this
point they
replaced my front  because of a leak. They still did not fix or explain
the fuel issue or the powerloss that came with it. I was ready to do
some
damage but family decided jail should not be in my future.

So I took my lumps and took it all the way to Wynn's in SF. Currently at

17 mpg. He said my  turbo's were dead. Ok, fine, Rebuild them. And at my

request (and some parts I brought in), the 60k was done just in case,
fuel filter and all o2 sensors replaced. New MAS used CAS. Still at 17,
he checked again and said the thermostat sensor was loose. No joy. Just
today at 15.5 mpg. Willie said he would look into it and I'll call him
late this week.

There is no mods to the car (have yet to fix it first). All this has
happend over a period of 7 months (3 spent in a shop). My pocketlogger
doesn't show anything I would recognize as bad (which is admittedly
little, little to no knock, no abnormal pressure issues). What am I/ are
we missing? At this point I feel I have done my best effort. I love the
car but even I have limits. I have spent over 5k on this. If I cannot
fix
it I have to trash it - it'll never pass smog in CA. Can anyone guess
the
problem? Or make an offer on my money pit?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 10:44:46 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question

You can put any size turbo on your car and not worry about upgrading the
rest of the stuff. As long as you keep the car's stock boost controller, it
will keep the pressure in the system at the levels where the stock ECU,
Injectors and fuel pump can keep up. To gain more power you need to raise
the boost (new boost controller) at which point the car will suck more air
and need more fuel with injectors, pump and later rails and ECU upgrades.

Tyson Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.com
www.up-times.com
206-715-TECH (8324)

UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Greg Wurst
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:19 AM
To: TEAM3S@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: Turbo upgrade question


I earlier asked a question about installing larger injectors without a
fuel computer, and as I suspected that wasn't really an option.  My
other question is can I install a set of 13G turbos on my '95 VR4 and
use them without the larger injectors, fuel computer, high-flow fuel
pump, etc.  My turbos are pretty much shot at 98,000 miles.  The car
doesn't do much during boost, and I get a lovely shot of black smoke out
the exhaust if I really try to get on it.  Considering my wife's Stealth
still goes like a bat out of hell, and my car runs fine otherwise and
still gets decent gas mileage,I think I've got some dead turbos.  I was
hoping to install the 13G turbos first and then worry about the
injectors, fuel computer, etc. later.  Is this a viable option?  Any
advice?

Thanks,

Greg

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:28:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Baldwin <mbaldwin@alumni.tufts.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Wheel choices

Hi guys, I'm trying to decide between 2 sets of wheels

Falken Torque 5
Volk GTC

The Volks are about $600 but I have been hearing good things about them.
My question is when people say they are "light strong wheels" 1) does this
mean that they are able to withstand the rigors of city driving (potholes,
bad roads) better?

2) Also, the specs of the wheels are 18x7.5 - would this fit our cars (I
have a 97 Vr4).

Thanks

Mike


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:49:28 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel choices

Would 7.5" wide wheels *fit* our cars? Maybe. Depends on the spoke design and offset. The bigger question is why would a person *want* to put a wheel that is 1" narrower than the factory wheel on the car (winter driving and tires excepted)? Stock TT wheels are either 17x8.5 or 18x8.5. I wouldn't go any narrower. Even the N/A had an 8" wide wheel.

Now, whether a wheel, of any diameter or width, will fit our cars without interfering with something (strut, caliper, wheel well, etc.) is another question entirely and usually cannot be answered with any common wheel spec.

I would have to ask the same question as Mike does. Is a forged wheel (such as the Volk or SSR) actually better able to withstand distortion do to impacts with potholes or "bad roads"? I know when I bought my '92 TT the factory cast aluminum wheels were terribly dented and "curb rashed" by the previous owner. But then, he could not have cared less for this car.

I would guess a forged wheel *might* handle impacts better than cast. On the other hand, when wearing wheels that cost $600 a piece, most owners take greater care to avoid road hazards. :)

The tire, specifically sidewall height, also determines the vulnerability of a wheel to road hazards such as potholes.

While on this topic, is there a web page that lists wheels known to fit the various models of 3000GT/Stealth?

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Baldwin" <mbaldwin@alumni.tufts.edu>
To: <team3s-digest@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:28 PM
Subject: Team3S: Wheel choices


Hi guys, I'm trying to decide between 2 sets of wheels

Falken Torque 5
Volk GTC

The Volks are about $600 but I have been hearing good things about them.
My question is when people say they are "light strong wheels" 1) does this
mean that they are able to withstand the rigors of city driving (potholes,
bad roads) better?

2) Also, the specs of the wheels are 18x7.5 - would this fit our cars (I
have a 97 Vr4).

Thanks

Mike


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:12:58 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel choices

My son and I use Volk TE-37 on the track.  They are cold forged aluminum, not cast, and have withstood several insults without problem.  However, I would not use them on the street with  Houston potholes and hidden curbs.  Forged aluminum is stronger than cast aluminum, which is why you can make them with less material.

The stock wheels cost about the same brand new from the dealer.

Used stock wheels are much cheaper.

Chuck Willis


I would have to ask the same question as Mike does. Is a forged wheel (such as the Volk or SSR) actually better able to withstand distortion do to impacts with potholes or "bad roads"? I know when I bought my '92 TT the factory cast aluminum wheels were terribly dented and "curb rashed" by the previous owner. But then, he could not have cared less for this car.

I would guess a forged wheel *might* handle impacts better than cast. On the other hand, when wearing wheels that cost $600 a piece, most owners take greater care to avoid road hazards. :)
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:17:30 -0500
From: pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel choices

Mike -- Wheels of this width are usually strong enough only for 2,500 lbs
Hondas. "Light strong" means that they will not bend if you do not hit a
pothole. If you do, they will.

Philip

- -----------------------------

Hi guys, I'm trying to decide between 2 sets of wheels

Falken Torque 5
Volk GTC

The Volks are about $600 but I have been hearing good things about them.
My question is when people say they are "light strong wheels" 1) does this
mean that they are able to withstand the rigors of city driving (potholes,
bad roads) better?

2) Also, the specs of the wheels are 18x7.5 - would this fit our cars (I
have a 97 Vr4).

Thanks

Mike

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:21:37 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Wheel choices

Jeff, look here:  http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=139004 for a wheel list for the TT/VR4 models, although I don't know how accurate it is.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius

<<<While on this topic, is there a web page that lists wheels known to fit the various models of 3000GT/Stealth?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:26:39 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel choices

On a related note, there is a company on Ebay selling Epic Scorpion
18"x8" chrome wheels that clear the calipers on the 2nd gen turbo cars.
Would any of you have any opinions on these wheels for regular street
use?

Greg

>>> <pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com> 1/7/2004 3:17:30 PM >>>

Mike -- Wheels of this width are usually strong enough only for 2,500
lbs
Hondas. "Light strong" means that they will not bend if you do not hit
a
pothole. If you do, they will.

Philip

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:57:16 -0500
From: "Greg Wurst" <GWurst@miamisburg.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheel choices

I have created a chart with the stock wheels and what models they will
fit at the following address:

http://web.miamisburg.k12.oh.us/3kgt/3swheels.htm

It's a work in progress, so anyone who can confirm the unknown
configurations feel free to let me know.  A big salute goes to the
team3s wheel faq page for the pictures and basic wheel configurations.
I used the pictures from their site (copied to my server to avoid using
their bandwidth) for the chart, but some of them don't blow-up properly.
 I credited the team3s website on the page, but if any team3s admins
want me to remove the pictures just let me know and I'll try to find
others, or people can send pictures to me to use on the chart.  Again, I
don't want to infringe on anyone's copyrights or anything like that.
Apologies for not asking permission first, but I just threw it up there
in the last 5 minutes and it doesn't link from anywhere.

Greg

>>>
While on this topic, is there a web page that lists wheels known to fit
the various models of 3000GT/Stealth?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:48:03 -0600
From: "Shane Thoms" <sthoms@thomsclan.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...

No listing for a 95 VR4....


Try www.rockauto.com
They have replacement struts and other parts (new) at very low prices.
Parts
come with
warrenties also!!

Mohammad
1995 3000GT base

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf Of
Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LTET
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:37 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: ECS suspension and struts...?



Is 3SX the only company offering replacement struts for the 3000 other than
the dealer?  I have the ECS suspension option and is it worth keeping that
or should i just use 3SX's replacements and do away with it....Not wanting
to spend $2000 on suspension, just want to repair what i have
failing...thanks for the help...

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:45:07 -0600
From: "Shane Thoms" <sthoms@thomsclan.com>
Subject: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)

Anyone try the DSM Pocket Logger with a 1995 3000GT VR4?
The software looks sweet, but I am afraid it will not work.  ;-(

Thanks,
Shane


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:20:33 -0800 (PST)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Willis, Charles E. wrote:

> let's start with the simple, cheap, and obvious things without high technology logging and diagnosis.
>
> 1) did they change the spark plugs when they did the 60K service?  This is not always done.

Yes, ik24 iridiums.

> 2) did they change the spark plug wires when they did the 60K service?

Yes, factory wires.

> 3) have you ever run a can of injector cleaner through the car?

No, I have used octane boosters (permatex) with the usual chemicals.
Nothing specifically for injectors has been used.

>
> You described a sudden decrease in gas mileage.  Any other symptoms, like cutting out at high speed WOT?  Why did they say the turbos were bad?  Do you have a real boost gauge on the car?

Not really sudden. After the VV dodge got hold of it, it started. Then
every couple months despite efforts, it has gone down another 2 mpg or so.

No real boost gauge yet. I wanted to get the car in good (known) working
order before I started taking it apart or increasing the number of parts.

>
> How does the car idle?  smoothly and at the correct rpm?

Car idles at 750 or so, about 1k when environmental controls are used. The
car idles smoothly, as for correct rpm I would assume so (nothing
obvious).

Though this morning it seemed to idle at 500 for awhile. This is recent
though.

>
> Have you checked for leaks in the intake side?  How does the vacuum tubing look?

For leaks, not specifically.

All intake paths has been checked by Willie and I have taken checks of the
vaccum tubing.

I still hold strong boost if that helps. In this case however, since I
cannot state yes 100% then it must be a no.

>
> The timing belt being off a tooth seems like a good possibility too.

He has checked that, I think. A new belt was put on by Willie and the car
is still the same. Currently my timing is full +5 (far as it will go), 0
knock.

>
> Chuck Willis 

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Roger Gerl wrote:

> In 99% of the cases one or both O2 sensors are shot.

I replaced both regardless of condition. No improvement. What are the
chances they came bad from mitsu?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:41:50 -0800 (PST)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: RE: Team3S: Fuel efficiency issues/migrane/hell

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Tyson Varosyan wrote:

> Clogged cats are a possibility, but they don't clog unless there is
> something very, very wrong with the combustion in the first place. Get
> behind your car after you get back from driving it and smell. Without
> sticking your nose in the tailpipe, you should not smell much exhaust at all
> if any. There should also be no noticeable smoke coming from the pipes. If
> you have ether, there is a combustion problem.

A friend once said that my car smelled very gassy when starting up. That
comment was one of the many things that keeps me worried about my car.

> Don't give up, and stop taking your car to dealers. Learn to work on it
> yourself! Get together with a local 3/S chapter in your area (there are tons
> of em in Cali) and go to "tech days" or talk with group about your issues.
> One expert looking at your car for 30 seconds can be better than 30 experts
> on this board whom are unable to see and feel your pain.

I don't have a big budget either, everytime I get ahead a little,
something else needs attention that wasn't fixed the last time. This is
not a sustainable pace.

The dealers will not touch it anymore. As is, my dreams of VV Dodge are
short and loud. I am trying to learn, and I have learned a great deal that
is not obvious to others. I however, still have far too much to learn. I
should have skipped computers and crawled under a car. I don't like to
bother this group or anyone about my issues, but am runing out of options.

> One other thing that never hurts to do is a compression test. It will test
> mechanical workings of the block and reveal bent valves, burned pistons or
> broken rings. A tester should not cost more than $30-40 and if you can
> unscrew a spark plug, you can do the test youself.

The next time that hood is open, chances are I'll have the damn thing
ripped apart and gone through with tweezers.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:33:43 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)

I am 90% sure it will not work. 94-95 use a funky signal that is not
standard compliant so no datalogging is avalible for it to my knowledge. You
can always email the pocketlogger guy and I am sure he knows more about it.

Tyson Varosyan
Technical Manager, Uptime Technical Solutions LLC.
tyson@up-times.com
www.up-times.com
206-715-TECH (8324)

UpTime/OnTime/AnyTime

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Shane Thoms
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 3:45 PM
Cc: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)



Anyone try the DSM Pocket Logger with a 1995 3000GT VR4?
The software looks sweet, but I am afraid it will not work.  ;-(

Thanks,
Shane

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:02:50 +0000
From: mjannusch@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)

> Anyone try the DSM Pocket Logger with a 1995 3000GT VR4?
> The software looks sweet, but I am afraid it will not work.  ;-(

Does not work at all...  No connect, no logging, nada.

Someone on 3si is working on a logger for the '94-95 cars, but I haven't been keeping tabs on it as I now have an AEM ECU and have all the logging I could dream of.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:05:49 -0600
From: "Jesse Rink" <jrink@w3si.org>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)

Pocketlogger with NOT work with OBDI/II hybrids like the 94/95 model year.
However, there is a datalogger being made now that is already in testing
phase that will work with the 94/95 cars.   Here is where it will be
available soon:   http://automotive.miragecorp.com/

Jesse Rink
Eagle, WI


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shane Thoms" <sthoms@thomsclan.com>
To: "rfc822 Compliance issue To: added by system POTENTIAL SPAM"
<jrink@w3si.org>
Cc: <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:45 PM
Subject: Team3S: Pocket Logger (pre ODBII)


>
> Anyone try the DSM Pocket Logger with a 1995 3000GT VR4?
> The software looks sweet, but I am afraid it will not work.  ;-(
>
> Thanks,
> Shane

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:29:43 -0600
From: "Jesse Rink" <jrink@w3si.org>
Subject: Team3S: PCV valve?

How do you know if your PCV valve is operating correctly?  I am not
experiencing any of the problems most people seem to with a bad PCV valve.
No smoke when running the car, no leaking oil from the oil cap, etc.
Everything seemed fine and I didn't think there was any problem with my PCV
valve until the other night when I was ripping things out of my engine, and
took out my PCV valve.  When I shake it, I hardly hear the plunger moving
back and forth unless I shake it really hard.   I was told you should be
able to hear the plunger moving around a lot easier than that.  Is mine
possibly bad or shouldn't I worry?

Jesse Rink
Eagle, WI

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #339
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