Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, January 3
2004 Volume 02 : Number 335
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:31:41 -0600
Subject: Team3S: VR4 Value / For Sale / Engine Rebuild Shops
I have a '91 VR4 with 75,000 miles that I am considering
selling. My question is what is the value of this car? The
engine in the car is bad, it blows blue smoke and sounds like
it has rod knock. The transmission is freshly rebuilt, and
both turbos were replaced recently. The car is mostly stock
except for an HKS blow off valve, air filter, exhaust, turbo
timer, and boost controller.
The car ran great until the engine went bad when I was
driving it home from the transmission shop. The body is in
near perfect condition (daily driver only in the summer), and
the only flaw in the interior is a wear mark in the leather
on the driver's seat.
As an alternate option, if I was going to get the engine
rebuilt where would you recommend that I take it? I am in
the Chicago area and have considered taking it to GK Systems
Racing (kcn-solutions.com/gksr). Has anyone had any
experience with this shop? Where else would you recommend?
are either interested in the car or have a good idea of the
value of this car. Thanks for your time.
Matt
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:01:36 -0500
Subject: Team3S: Brake Master Cylinder
Survey. My VR4 has 130k miles on it.
Has anyone had to replace their
1. brake master cylinder
2. brake booster vacuum assembly
car year and desc?
at what mileage and for what reason was it replaced?
any good source for parts?
I want to get an idea of when these items might need preventive
replacement, esp. in light of HPDE track usage.
If we get more than 5 replies, just email me directly and I will post
a
table
later. I don't think there have been many replaced, didn't find much
in archives.
Kurt
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:16:18 -0500
Subject: Team3S: Need New Suspension - Tein HA vs JIC Magic
Looking for a consensus here on which way to go. I replacing basically
all
suspension components and would like to go with the best four corner
setup.
Thanks,
Tommy
96' VR-4
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:51:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Master Cylinder
> Has anyone had to replace their
> 1. brake master cylinder (Y)
> 2. brake booster vacuum assembly (N)
> car year and desc? 91 VR-4
> at what mileage and for what reason was it replaced? 130k master &
slave
(slave was leaking, master wet - changed both)
> any good source for parts? 'Good Guys' page - (San Raf
Mitsu)
> I want to get an idea of when these items might need preventive
replacement,
esp. in light of HPDE track usage.
> If we get more than 5 replies, just email me directly and I will post
a
table later. I don't think there have been many replaced, didn't find much
in
archives.
> Kurt
- -------------------------
- --Forrest
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 19:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need New Suspension - Tein HA vs JIC Magic
Interesting question...
While there is no lack of subjective opinions about "the best" suspension,
I will try to summarize the differences between the available suspension
upgrades.
1) Spring rates
2) Springs
3) Suspension travel
4) Ride height adjustability
5) Damping adjustability
6) Quality
7) Handling vs Ride quality
- --------
1) Spring rates
Tein HA 12 kg/mm front, 8 kg/mm rear
JIC FLT2 14 kg/mm front, 10 kg/mm rear
Tein is softer but JIC is more rear-biased, which reduces understeer. Do
not buy the Tein's available 12/6 springs because the car will plow
(understeer) more.
2) Springs
Tein used non-standard springs with "helper springs"
JIC used standard 60 mm springs without "helper springs" (a mistake
IMO)
JIC springs are cheap. They sag and rust. Tein springs are better and they
have helper springs that reduce NVH and somewhat improve traction. There
will be no shock transferred to the body when the suspension fully
unloads.
3) Travel
Without getting into many fine details, the useful travel is almost the
same.
4) Ride height adjustability
JIC has a adjustable coilover length that is independent of spring perch
position and spring preload. That is somewhat an advantage if you are
planning to run a ride height that is different from what the suspension
designers had in mind. However, the design is poorly executed and the
adjusters often come loose. Out of all similar suspensions, JIC has the
most bare-bones basic ride height adjuster with a thin aluminum nut that
just can't take any abuse. I had to machine larger lock nuts to fix that. I
can make more of them if anyone needs them too.
5) Damping adjustability
About the same. Both are somewhat under-damped and need to be run near full
hard, but then they feel very hard too.
6) Tein has a better quality. Those who saw new and used Tein and new and
used JIC can tell.
7) JIC will have a better and more neutral handling on smooth roads but
will not take the bumps very well (isn't this is what a suspension is
intended for??). It will be rough and have less traction on bumpy roads.
Tein will be understeering more unless the owner compensates for it with
more front negative camber, higher tire pressures and/or stiffer sway bars
in the rear. Tein-equipped car is likely to sit higher and be a little
slower, but smoother and quieter.
- ------
I have a couple of products that attempt to fix the JIC suspension. The
"tender" springs will improve the ride quality, traction, and make the car
more neutral and predictable.
The camber-caster plates will improve the front tire angles (I have not
noticed any drawbacks to this yet!)
Both products are MUCH easier to install at the same time the suspension is
installed, although retrofitting would take only about 4 hours.
Philip
At 03:16 PM 1/2/2004, Williams, Tommy F wrote:
>Looking for a consensus here on which way to go. I replacing basically
all
>suspension components and would like to go with the best four corner
setup.
>
>Thanks,
>Tommy
>96' VR-4
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 19:43:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake Master Cylinder
I had to replace mine with the vacuum booster at 55K. I developed some
weird problem when the pedal would become rock solid if tapped hard and
then would go down slowly (as if I had to compress some damper) and only
then the car would start to slow down. I replaced both master cylinder and
the vacuum booster with used units and the problem went away almost
completely.
As a side note, I have a FREE brake mod tip! Rip our the foam and felt
rings from the back side of the brake vacuum booster. They are there only
to quiet the booster operation. If you gut them you will be getting a cool
"whooosh" sound ONLY if you press the brake pedal fast and hard, but you
brake line pressure and brakes force will build up much quicker.
Philip
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:03:31 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake Master Cylinder
I have rebuilt the brake master cylinder in my '93 VR4. I have not
needed to replace or rebuild the master cylinder in my 94 VR4. Both had track
use, with much more on the 94 than the 93. I use Motul 650 exclusively. I
also had to rebuild both rear calipers on the 93 because they failed on track in
107 degree weather. Never replaced the brake booster on either car.
Chuck Willis
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:22:25 -0500
Subject: Team3S: seat cover installaton
Most Stealths I've seen have a small tear in the drivers side seat,
mine
included. Plus other wear and tear.
I'm trying to figure out how the headrest guide attachments remove, and
also
the seat belt holder that is on top
of the seat. I've searched this site-no luck. I also purchased a
repair
manual for my car. It's does not describe
removal steps at all. Can anyone educate me on how these pieces remove?
My
new covers will go on top
of the old ones, so I need to remove these parts.
Thanks,
Danny Hurles
Flint, Michigan
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 23:02:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: seat cover installaton
First recline the seat so you have some room to pull it out. Then
press and
hold in the plastic release button located were the headrest slides
in.
They should just slide right out.
Dan
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:11:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need New Suspension - Tein HA vs JIC Magic
Philip,
Great comparison. Regarding the Tein vs JIC ride height/adjustability
and travel ............. I thought the Tein Flex (haven't seen them)
improved travel with the flex design. Is that true?
Dennis -==- Philly
PS ......... love your track videos.
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:48:55 -0600
Subject: Team3S: What about GC?
>> While there is no lack of subjective opinions about "the best"
>> suspension, I will try to summarize the differences between the
>> available suspension upgrades.
>>
>
It's a shame you didn't compare Ground Control to the Tein and Jic.
I have GC suspension set up for road racing and, while it is not the
greatest in the world, it does the job. It corners absolutely neutral
and
allows me to keep up with virtually anything in corners except
race-prepped
lightweight Porsches. Hoosiers might allow that.
I had my problems, thanks to a mixup on the initial order. I got
short
springs, so when I later installed camber plates it dropped the car all
the
way to the GROUND. I mean, I was scraping the pavement on every bump.
We
had to use the maximum height adjustment to get it back up to where it
was
driveable, so now my adjustable suspension is no longer adjustable.
Long
springs will cure that, however.
This is as high as we can get it with camber plates and short springs.
I
can lower it 2 in. from here if I want, but then it starts hitting
things.
I already tore off the front air dam at this height.
For serious road racers, I suggest:
Ground Control adjustable suspension with long Eibach springs up front,
as
stiff as you can stand. I've heard of guys running 900 lb springs up
front.
Yikes! 600/350 is a good mix for racing, but pretty stiff for the street.
Camber plates -- allow caster and camber adjustment, and they lower the
car
2 in.
GAB adjustable struts (available from Stillen).
For boulevard cruisers and ricers, the GC with camber plates and
short
springs will drop you as far as is mechanically possible in the front.
Your
car will be low, dude. Ask GC what street spring rates should be.
I don't know of a good kit that lowers the rear. The GC lowers it about
1.5
in., which puts negative camber on the rear tires. This is good for
racing
but not so good for the street. I swap tires on the rim when the wear
starts to show on the inside shoulder of my street tires (a good
argument
for NOT buying directional tires). Somebody sells an adjustable rear
suspension arm which allegedly cures that problem, but at $350 per arm,
you
can buy and swap a lot of tires to make up for that.
Rich/slow old poop
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:15:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need New Suspension - Tein HA vs JIC Magic
At 11:11 AM 1/3/2004, Dennis Ninneman wrote:
>Great comparison. Regarding the Tein vs JIC ride
height/adjustability and
>travel ............. I thought the Tein Flex (haven't seen them)
improved
>travel with the flex design. Is that true?
Yes, they did, and I bet their lock/jam nut design is better than the
JIC's.
But... I see they have that silly 12/6 kg/mm spring combination that will
make the car understeer like you had never seen before.
They also removed the helper springs, thinking that they are probably not
needed now with these soft springs. I wish they had kept the 12/8 springs
and the helper springs. JIC-RS model for Porsches has them. You can see
them on their similar-looking Cross competition suspension.
Interesting, on that page they call them "helper" springs, but they look
rather thick for helper springs, which means that they do the same thing
that my Tender springs do improving traction and handling or an AWD
car!
Glad you enjoy my track videos, thanks!
Philip
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #335
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