Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, December 16 2003 Volume
02 : Number 323
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:30:30 -0600
Subject: Team3S: VR4 ride height measurments and Tein Flex install
experience
I installed Tein Flex on my 97 VR4 today but before starting I
measured
"ride height" with the idea that I should attempt to maintain the
"relative
to stock" front to rear weight distribution. To my dismay, I found
variance
in the measured height between front and rear and also left to right.
Vehicle: 1997 VR4 93,082 miles( ~149,800 km) Stock suspension
original
equipment
Measurement environmental and method:
1. A level surface (my garage)
2. Equalized all tire pressure @ 35PSI (Enkie 18x9.5 RP01 45mm offset
w/Nitto NT 555 - 265/35 ZR18)
3. Using carpenter level to obtain exacting vertical measurements from
the
floor surface through wheel center and horizontal level measure to top
of
exterior fender opening (i.e right angles)
Measured:
LR - 27 1/4" (69.22 cm)
RR - 27 1/2" (69.85 cm)
LF - 28 1/8" (71.44 cm)
RF - 28 3/8" (72.08 cm)
I was a bit surprised with the delta between front and rear
measurements
since I never visually noticed that the rear was nearly 1" lower than
the
front.
I am curious if this 1 inch difference is usual and normal?.
Upon seeing differences between left and right measurements, I
assumed
(rationalize) that this might be due to aging springs - sag?
The Tein Flex (part # DSR74-6USS1) can be height adjusted +/- 1.18"
(+/-
30mm) as they come from the factory (what Tein calls the reference
setting).
I chose to add (lengthen) by 1" for the initial adjustment to mitigate
risk
of lowering too far and experience potential wheel clearance troubles
since
I run wider tires and wheels than typical. I added 1" to the
reference
setting for both the front and rear struts/shocks.
Post installation measurements:
LR - 27" (68.58 cm)
RR - 27 1/16" (68.74 cm) <--I guess my quest for perfection eluded
me here
somehow (I'll correct this later)
LF - 26 7/8" (68.26 cm)
RF - 26 7/8" (68.26 cm)
Notice that the ride height between front and rear now has less variance
-
for practical purposes lets call it even all the way around for this
discussion.
Now, the question... - is this a bad a good or a what situation? From
a
perspective of measurement and visuals, I would ordinarily be pleased the
I
managed to get everything this close on the first shot but I question
the
weight distribution change that has probably has occurred verses the
stock
configuration.
Any words of wisdom or thoughts about all of this?
Some other observations/effects:
1. I will be getting camber checked within the next week or two - test
drive
feels OK but alignment is *a must* with this change.
2. I was able to eliminate the need for 5mm front wheel spacers I was
using
because of my 9.5" wheels and 45mm offset setup - the Tein Flex at
current
the current adjusted height gave me back sufficient clearance.(and I am
very
very pleased with that result!)
3. No clearance problems noted thus far - I run over some rough roadways
and
did a little hard cornering.
4. The Tein's are definitely more solid than my old worn out struts -
kind
of shocking actually (the change is) but the more I drove the more I have
to
say that the ride is not teeth jarring at all which is a description
I've
read and used by others to describe ride quality. Incidentally he
Flex
setting is at 8 (of 16) clicks front and rear.
5. I run Saner sways front/rear. I was getting an unusual clunk clunk
clunk
on very hard left hand cornering which I discovered (just today) was
happening when the stock suspension was becoming fully
unloaded/extended
during that kind of cornering event. The clunk noise was caused by
the very
slight a contact between the Left Saner sway bar link bolt head and the
left
rear wheel axle flange bolt heads. Because of the Tein change in
geometry,
this problem is now gone (halleluiah! - that old mystery is explained
and
finally solved).
I still have the EDFC install remaining to do. A job that will get
done
during the holidays.
Dan
Pearl White 1997 VR4
K&N; FlowMaster Catback;
Saner Performance Sway Bars (Front/Rear);
TEC Strut Tower bars (Front/Rear);
3SX Adjustable Rear Control Arms;
3SX Stainless-Steel Braided Brake Lines;
K40 Radar; Enkie 18x9.5 RP01 w/Nitto NT 555 - 265/35 ZR18;
Tein Flex/EDFC; (EDFC to install)
3SX TT Downpipe + RT ULTRA Cat Combo (to install);
RPS Carbon-Carbon Clutch (to install)
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:32:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 ride height measurments and Tein Flex install
experience
> I installed Tein Flex on my 97 VR4 today...
Dan -- The stock ride height, AFAIK, is 25.5" from the fender lip to
wheel
center, all around.
The lower you can set your car the better it is for handling. This
lowering
is usually limited by your suspension travel (applies only to stock
and
Tein HA) and by wheel and ground clearance. With my JIC's I noticed that
I
cannot lower my car by more than about 1.5" because the front tires
rub
against the plastic shrouds inside the fender wells and also the
fender
lips.
If you want to check how much tire clearance you have, you can stick a
few
chewing gum or play dough pieces into the fender well and drive
around.
Initially, when I installed the JIC's, I did not have any rubbing until
I
took my car to a bumpy track (Gateway International Raceway). There is
a
place there where you corner and go over an asphalt seam and a small
bump.
That track section was compressing my front suspension to the point when
it
was rubbing. By the end of the day I had a polished fender lip, a hole
in
the plastic fender shroud and a 1/8" deep groove in the tire. The
groove
was cut with the sheet metal that is under the plastic fender shroud, so
I
had to raise the car a little, and then raise it some more to save the
tire
from unexpectedly blowing up!
Philip
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:32:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: ECU problem
Joel,
I just had my fail also, I found 2 options were open to me. 1. I
could
repair it> A company named AvPro out of Florida, has a link on the
Web.
They were able to repair mine however the turnaround was about a
week. 2.
Purchase a Remanufactured one from a company called OurEcms.com which
had
mine and was able to express it to me in 1 day hence little down time,
sense
my car is a daily driver I opted for option 2 which was twice the price
of
option 1 but they guaranteed the unit for 1 year, and it is working
perfectly so far.
Hope that helps.
Eugene
92'Dohc N/T
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:53:45 -0700
Subject: Team3S: Problem with MAF-T?
I had the MAF-T in with a stock fuel system (360 injectors and stock
fuel pump) and with all the settings at 0 it ran great. Since then I
had
a tranny issue so pulled it out and while it was out installed 450
injectors and a Supra fuel pump. After putting it back together the
car
will start, idle for about 5 seconds, then die. If I richened the
mixture (setting E or F on the MAF-T) the car will idle but when I
tap
the gas it will stumble. After letting off the gas it will rev up.
First
thought was a leak so did a pressure test, but no leaks. Tried
putting
the stock injectors and MAS on is running the same.
The only thing I can think of at this point is a bad fuel filter?
Any help would be great.
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:02:16 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: Redline MT-90 in the rear differential
I use MT-90 in the tranny and transfer case and Red Line 75W90 in the read
diff.
How hard are you going to drive the car before you change out the rear diff
fluid?
Chuck Willis
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:15:30 -0600
Subject: RE: Team3S: VR4 ride height measurments and Tein Flex install
experience
You are to be congratulated for making such good measurements and sharing
them!
But why did you equalize tire pressures? That is not the way you
drive the car, is it?
Chuck Willis
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:58:48 +0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: Problem with MAF-T?
Sounds like possibly the rubber O-ring on the fuel pump outlet was damaged
during install (VERY easy to have happen). Did you put some oil on the
ring before sliding it into the output tube?
One thing you could try is to take the return line off the fuel pressure
regulator and put on a section of hose running into a gas can. Jumper the
fuel pump test connector (black, behind the battery) directly to the positive
terminal on the battery and you should get a pretty strong flow out the
hose. If not, the O-ring is probably shot or there is something wrong with
the pump.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:57:55 -0800
Subject: Team3S: Battery Draining While Parked
Anyone know what a reasonable current draw is when the car is parked and
everything is turned off?
I finally got around to isolating my problems with starting my car.
The quick summary is that intermittently, when I turn the key to "Start", I hear
a "tink" from the starter area, the dash lighting dims slightly, and the car
doesn't start. It's getting more and more frequent now, so my motivation
to fix it has increased
When running, the voltage at the battery is about 13.8V, and everything
works. Thus I have no reason to suspect my alternator or voltage
regulator. When I first turn the car off, the voltage at the battery reads
12.6V to 12.7V. After a few minutes it settles to between 12.6V and
12.5V. Over the next few hours, it often drops to 12.2V, and sometimes as
low as 12.0V. Overnight, it drops to 11.8V and then pretty much stays
around 11.8V for several days. I haven't observed it longer than
this.
When the battery is at 12.2V or lower, sometimes the car will start, and
sometimes it won't. If I use my battery charger to charge the battery
(12A) for about 10 minutes, the car starts right up. Every time.
Once I just tried hooking up the charger (12A) and immediately starting the car
(when it wasn't starting without it), and it immediately started. With the
75A "Engine Start" mode on my battery charger, the car starts fine every time,
too. My starter draws about 190A when the car starts.
So at that point, I suspected it was either the battery itself or that
something was draining the battery. This weekend, I measured the current
drain on the battery with the car parked. It was steady at 35mA.
That seems reasonable to me, but I don't have anything to compare it to. I
don't think 35mA should be able to drain a battery overnight, though. Does
it sound like my battery is dying?
For reference, I have a 2 year-old Dynabatt that has worked just fine until
the last couple of months. I've heard that Dynabatts don't like heat, and
my engine bay definitely gets on the warm side. Before I get a replacement
battery, I wanted to see if 35mA sounded high or out of the ordinary to
anyone.
Thanks,
- --Erik
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:09:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Team3S: Battery Draining While Parked
Car batteries are usually rated at 60+ Amp-hr, which means that at 35 mA
it
should last about 1700 hours or 70 days.
That could be just a dying battery. Swap it with your g/f's battery and
you
will find out for sure!
Philip
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:11:43 -0000
Subject: RE: Team3S: Battery Draining While Parked
Eric,
I replaced my alternator last
summer to eliminate a draw that drained my
battery every few days. Here were the measurements I took with a
multimeter
in series with the negative pole/cable (same brand new battery before
and
after):
Old alternator:
door open: 2.18 (1.12 with dome light off, one door light on)
everything off: .10 - .13
pull BAT fuse: drops to .06 - .08
New alternator:
door open: 2.10 (1.04 with dome light off, one door light on)
everything off: .06-.07
pull BAT fuse: drops to .03
Doesn't seem like a huge difference, but the problem is GONE.
- -Jim
P.S.- Where did you mount the right channel mic for the in-car videos
on
your web page? MAN that sounds cool! :-)
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:15:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Team3S: Battery Draining While Parked
> Does it sound like my battery is dying?
Yes.
> For reference, I have a 2 year-old Dynabatt that has
> worked just fine until the last couple of months.
> I've heard that Dynabatts don't like heat, and my engine
> bay definitely gets on the warm side. Before I get
> a replacement battery, I wanted to see if 35mA
> sounded high or out of the ordinary to anyone.
35mA sounds well within reason. I'd say your Dynabatt is fried.
Mine acted the same way when it went toes up (after only about a year).
Those batteries seem to really suck when used as starting batteries, at least if
mounted in the engine compartment. Had a similar problem with my Predator
battery, but that took about 2 years to die. The small weight loss isn't
worth the hassle, IMO, so I replaced it with an Optima red-top and now I have no
worries about whether the car will start.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:22:37 -0800
Subject: RE: Team3S: Battery Draining While Parked
Philip G. wrote:
> That could be just a dying battery. Swap it with your
> g/f's battery and you will find out for sure!
Yeah, actually I have an Optima Red Top in the garage (workbench
power that I could put in there... except that I have a currently Dynabatt
that's really small. The space normally occupied by the OEM battery is
filled with stuff now.
Matt J. wrote:
> 35mA sounds well within reason. I'd say your Dynabatt is
> fried. Mine acted the same way when it went toes up (after
> only about a year).
I thought I remembered reading something like that. Thanks for the
confirmation. I, too, am questioning the value of the weight savings if I
have to replace it every 2 years. Maybe I'll rip out the catch cans and
put the Optima back in there. In any case, the battery is getting replaced
as my next step.
Jim, thanks for the measurements - those are similar to what I measured
when I was testing out the current in the door switch, which is the ground path
for the dome light and door light.
Jim M. wrote:
> P.S.- Where did you mount the right channel mic for the
> in-car videos on your web page? MAN that sounds cool!
:-)
It's a stereo lapel mic from Radio Shack, and I split the two halves
apart. The left channel is near the brake fluid reservoir and the right
one is zip-tied to the brake lines between the air filter and the strut
tower. I've got a K&N Filtercharger and a GReddy TypeS BPV, and both
microphone halves have foam baffles on them (to reduce wind noise). I
really like the sound, too
- --Erik
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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:19:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 ride height measurments and Tein Flex install
experience
Chuck
I run 38PSI front and 35PSI rear. Equalizing pressure to 35PSI was
just to
eliminate a variable (I suppose 3PSI delta is negligible anyway)
One other factoid omitted from original post, but asked by another
member,
concerned fuel level when measured. Fuel gauge indicated ~1/4
tank
Dan
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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:52:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Team3S: Problem with MAF-T?
Sounds like a fuel pressure problem, pump not getting enough voltage or for
some reason not flowing enough, or could be a problem further up, check your
fuel filter and fpr while you're at it.
Donald Ashby
'93 3000GT VR-4 (RIP)
'92 3000GT VR-4 (Vroom!)
"Don't drink and park, accidents cause people!"
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #323
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