Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, December 8
2003 Volume 02 : Number 317
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:18:45 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake Upgrade for Autobahn Driving?
Pete,
When I moved to Germany in 1998,
it didn't take long to discover that the
stock brakes weren't going to cut it
on the Autobahn. First I tried
different pads (Stillen Metal Matrix),
and while they worked marginally
better than stock, my 2nd gen rotors warped
almost immediately. I resolved
the problem by installing Porterfield
cryoed rotors (solid, not slotted or
drilled), Porterfield R4-S pads and
stainless braided lines at all four
corners. That setup worked well
until I moved to the UK in 2002 and started
driving at the track (only now am
I pursuing a full upgrade).
Your 1st gen rotors are surely a
disadvantage, and IMO it wouldn't be a bad
idea to look for a set of used 2nd
gen calipers (I'll be selling mine in a
few weeks, others on this list who
have already upgraded may some available
now). Regardless, you'll see
an improvement in stopping power and
repeatability with cryoed rotors and
better pads.
My Stealth never required major
service in Germany, but I did have my stock
rotors turned (by hand on the
car!), new struts installed and a front wheel
bearing replaced at Mitsubishi
dealers using parts I sourced from the States
(mitsupartsdirect.com is cheap
and has efficient shipping to APO addresses).
I found the German Mitsu
mechanics expensive but competent at performing
repairs. With so few of
these vehicles on European roads, don't expect them
to be particularly
proficient at diagnosing problems (identifying the failed
wheel bearing was
frustrating); get CAPS and leverage the expertise
available in this forum to
identify problems before taking the car to the
shop. BTW, if you have
transmission problems, you're on Getrag's home turf!
Good luck, and enjoy your
tour!
*** Team3S, 3SI #0030, GTOUK #155
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R Mk1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer, Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
PF cryoed rotors, R4S pads, SS
lines w/SBs, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
------------------------------
Pete,
I get the idea you are not a do-it-yourselfer.
Jim's advice is
good, with slight modifications.
1. Second gen calipers are a
good idea but you will also need second gen rotors to go along with them, which
is fine. One piece rotors are fine. Cryoed rotors from Porterfield are
mostly for track use, but won't hurt for Autobahn. There is no general
agreement about the value of crossdrilling or slotting. For your use,
don't bother.
2. stainless steel brake lines are a good idea.
you'll want these on all four corners. if you stiffen only the front brake
lines, the rear ones can still balloon.
3. I'm still concerned about
your tire wear - you should still get a good, precise 4 wheel
alignment.
4. Upgraded pads will help. Stillen Metal Matrix is pretty
mild. Porterfield R4S are used by lots of us, I use Carbotech Panther Plus on
the street. You should be prepared for some moderate brake dust and some
squeaking when cold at low speed, but the additional braking is worth
it.
5. A big component of braking is tires. The combination of
high speeds and reduced traction means you should be real serious about good
tires. Roger would have a good recommendation in this regard.
Chuck
Willis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:42:56 -0800
From: "Gizmo" <
kdmorg@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Thanks Marc!
Kudos' to Marc Jonathan Jacobs!
He sent me particulars on how to make my own crankshaft removal tool.
I
found some small channel and decided to make one. I didn't have a
drill
press but I did have a chuck and an old dryer motor. I cut the channel
with
a small saber saw and I mounted the chuck on the shaft of the motor,
clamped
it to my workbench and drilled the holes as described by Marc. I
assembled
it after grinding the channel down where the two pieces came
together (yes,
using the dryer motor which I mounted an 8" grinding wheel.) I
assembled all
the parts and went to see if it would work. I adjusted the "Y"
so both 3/8"
bolts went into the pulley holes, I put my 24" 1/2" breaker bar
into the
center of the crankshaft nut, put a moderate amount of foot pressure
to the
breaker bar and it came loose! No beating, no skinned knuckles, no
cussing.
Nothing but surprise that I didn't even have to kick it! Seems
someone used
"Never Seize" on the bolt threads.
When I am done with the 60K maintenance I will make the "tool"
available
just as Marc has. I am only waiting for parts from NORCO.
Once again, Kudos' to Marc.
P.S. Marc, I used the 14-16" and 6" dimensions you suggested. I will post
a
picture (it'll fit on my scanner) if someone can tell me where. Anyone
in
the Seattle/Tacoma area can just come get it.
Keith Morgavi
AKA Gizmo
Certified Systems Professional
PC Systems
and Networks.
Des Moines, WA
------------------------------
Hi to All
Wondering if anyone has a good person or web site
that they can send me
about gauges. I'm looking of around the same
style as the stock gauges.
It is going to be on a Blue 1991 Dodge Stealth
RT. Thanks for any
information..
Kraig
1991 Dodge
Stealth
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:14:59 -0500
From: "chris weil" <
cweil@si.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S:
speeding ticket
Hey,
I recall reading an email recently that someone posted regarding
fighting a
speeding ticket. I checked the archives and can't seem to
find it.
Does anyone have the website where I can find that
information?
Chris,
White 97VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:34:47 +0100
From: Engelmann Peter A Maj AFELM
PEP <
peter.engelmann@ramstein.af.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake Upgrade for Autobahn Driving?
Jim,
Got it, thanks! Will definitely press with upgrading
rotors/pads. Pardon
me for a couple of dumb questions, but I didn't see
the answer on the FAQ
site: what's the difference between 1st and 2nd
generation rotors/calipers?
Are the one-piece Porterfields 2nd gen? And
what do you suggest for 2nd gen
calipers if I want to buy new ones?
I will definitely follow your advice and get parts and advice from
this
forum! Happy to report no transmission problems, though.
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:42:37 +0100
From: Engelmann Peter A Maj AFELM
PEP <
peter.engelmann@ramstein.af.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake Upgrade for Autobahn Driving?
Chuck,
You've got the right idea about my do-it-yourself abilities,
mate!
(Whoops--mixed up my Aussie and German slang there. Never
mind.)
Same stupid questions I just asked Jim--what's the difference between
1st
and 2nd gen rotors and calipers? Are the one-piece Porterfields 2nd
gen?
I'll check with Geoff Mohler about getting 2nd gen calipers and
stainless
steel brake lines. Hope he's got them in stock.
Will definitely get a new alignment after I've got the brake problems
fixed.
Will get the Porterfield R4S pads.
Will check with Roger about tires.
Thanks for the advice--I really appreciate it!!
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 03:29:31 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake
Upgrade for Autobahn Driving?
BTW, if you do decide on the larger 2nd gen calipers and rotors, you have
to
understand they will not fit underneath the 1st gen 17" rims. You would
need
either aftermarket wheels that fit, or 17" or larger wheels from a 2nd
gen
(94+) twin turbo.
Omar
92 r/t
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:53:54 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brake Upgrade for Autobahn Driving?
Grüss Dich Peter,
Unfortunately, I haven't seen this thread till today so my input is a
little late
Difference between the front 1st gen and 2nd gen rotors (only turbos) is
the diameter that increaed from 296mm to 314mm. Therefore the caliper
mounting points are different too. Porterfield rotors and others can be had
in both sizes. The rear ones are totally different as the 2nd gen calipers
are a dual pot design in contrast to the clamp design of the first gens.
Don't know about the rotors difference and the emergency brake as the later
is a drum design what makes those rotors expensive. Changing the rear brake
system definitely helps to increase braking stability. Don't get slotted or
crossdrilled ones as the TÜV will not like them too.
Stainless stell brake lines do not help on a daily driver unless you run
your car on a circle track. I have them on my car for a long time and did
not saw an improvement at all for daily use. I had to change them back to
the Mitsu rubber ones and have zero ballooning problems. Again, the TÜV
don't like them. 2nd gen calipers can be found on european salvage yards
too as ALL european cars had so called 2nd gen brakes. We don't go for
small stuff here But note, that most broken 3S cars are imported first
gen ones from the US driven by people who were not familiar with high speed
on our Autobahns. 8 of 10 cars had a roll-over. The ones I saw had intact
calipers.
Regarding available tires, yo ucan get all we have available here. In
Germany the law is that Mitsubishi must give their ok to the tire otherwise
you'll not pass the TÜV. Therefore you are limited to Dunlop (SP8000,
SP8080, SP9000), Michelin Pilot and Continental. The later has the best
winter tire I highly recommend as it allows you to drive speeds of up to
210km/h without getting melted. I'd go with the bridgestone tires here as
the TÜV will still let you pass the check with them. Don't go larger than
245/45 -17 or 245/40 - 18 ... again, government issue but it's not worth to
go larger, it doesn't help. It's just for the look.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:31:55 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: speeding ticket
Maybe you are thinking of VR4 owner Jeff Mulligan's web site? It is noted
on the home page of my web site.
A friend of mine recently used the information and tactics in Jeff's
publication to fight a speeding ticket. Jeff supplies great information.
However, court judges are the last remaining kings in the USA. The judge in this
particular court set the rules such that my friend could not question the police
officer as to the operating condition and calibration of the laser device used
to measure his speed. Essentially the judge was saying "I don't care if the
device was measuring correctly or not". My friend did not have a chance. At
least he did not have to grovel in front of this little king like the other
defendents. Just like our Founding Fathers said: "Screw kings!". The fine was
the same whether he plea bargained or not. And his insurance company did not
care about the speeding points.
My same friend above had another speeding ticket and court date and neither
the prosecutor nor police officer showed up. Jeff's book also discusses what to
say to a judge in a case like that. My friend got off on that ticket.
Good luck on fighting your ticket if you go that route. Jeff Mulligan's
book is very well worth buying!
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#317
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