Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, December 1
2003 Volume 02 : Number
313
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:09:49 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake kit pictures
The "kit" is NOT NEW at all !!! I have it
since more than a year with the
large 13" crossdrilled rotors. Fact : large
rotors but way too small
pad-area. Only about 3/4 of the rotor is touched
what looks really strange
and makes the rotor too heavy.
Here are some
pics of the original kit :
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23435http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23437http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23439http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23440The
whole thing looks the same as the time I got it from the US. It seems to
be a
copy of that although it needs some reingeneering of the bracket (not
seen in
the pics) as well as the rotors MUST be redesigned with a larger hub
to match
the pad area. Putting washers under the braket to meet larger
rotors is BS
:-((
Also note that the pics are with much smaller rotors, stock sized in
the
front. The 6-piston "show pic" looks like it was test-mounted in the rear
on
a first gen that has no drum for the emergency barkes. The rear rotors
are
NOT available for drum EB's.
Let them first develop it properly
and then think about getting it. There
are too much not yet
done...
Roger G.
93 & 96'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
To: "Stealth
List" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, November 30, 2003 7:52 PM
Subject: Team3S: Brake kit
pictures
>
http://members.cox.net/erikpetterson/brakes/page1.html>
>
This is a new brake kit that a local brake guy is working on for our
cars.
> Some of the stats are listed as well... If you want more
info on it
> though - please contact Todd, the owner, through the link on
the page. I
> think the pricing is around $1,000 for the base
kit. He has a rear kit to
> match it as well, but is still gauging
interest for that. The brakes fit
> perfectly on a n/a, and still
waiting to fit them on a TT. I think for
what
> you get the price
can't be beat... It's not "big" or "red", but not
everyone
> tracks it
every weekend and has the $ for the other kits out there.
>
> I'm
not in any way affiliated with him or making any money on
this...
Just
> trying to help expand our market for aftermarket
parts.
>
> -Erik
> '94 R/T
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:43:51
-0800
From:
bslade@shaw.caSubject:
Team3S: Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger windows.
I have a
question on my 93 Stealth:
The triangular molding at the front of my drivers
window has begun to split.
The one on the passenger side looks like it wants
to as well. The windows
do not leak. Are these windows' travel distances
adjustable? It seems
if I reduce the amount of travel upwards, it may save
the passenger side, but then they may start to leak....
Chrysler Canada wants
$100 Canadian for that stupid molding......
Any experience/help is
appreciated.
Bob
'93 Stealth R/T.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:53:52
-0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake kit pictures
Yes, the parts have been around for a
while. He has designed his own
bracket for the mounting points of the
calipers. He basically adapted his
brackets from the Eclipse setup that
is VERY similar to the n/a setup. The
pics are on MY '94 R/T non-turbo
and the 1st 3 are only the 12.2" rotor, the
last 3 are the 13" rotor. I
said before they are NOT made to compete with
the Big Reds or the other
expensive kits. He is trying to market them as
Street and occasional
Track use. More so to the non-turbo's than the
heavily modded twin
turbo bad asses on this list ;-)
There is no pad overhang on his kits,
and I don't know about the washers (if
you're talking about the 2 nuts on the
wheel studs, those are just on there
to hold the rotor flat for picture
taking purposes). The last pic is the
one I think you are thinking is
only 3/4 touching, but it is a little too
bright to see how the pad is
designed, it's supposed to be like that. I
really don't want to defend
all the critics here. If you have "techie"
questions then please refer
them to him. Obviously if there is room for
improvement please add in
your two cents, as things are still open to
discussion.
And YES he is
positive that he can to a rear kit, and retain the e-brake.
-
-Erik
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
To:
"Stealth List" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Sunday, November 30, 2003 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake kit
pictures
> The "kit" is NOT NEW at all !!! I have it since more
than a year with the
> large 13" crossdrilled rotors. Fact : large rotors
but way too small
> pad-area. Only about 3/4 of the rotor is touched what
looks really strange
> and makes the rotor too heavy.
>
> Here
are some pics of the original kit :
>
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23435>
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23437>
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23439>
http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23440>
>
The whole thing looks the same as the time I got it from the US. It
seems
to
> be a copy of that although it needs some reingeneering of
the bracket (not
> seen in the pics) as well as the rotors MUST be
redesigned with a larger
hub
> to match the pad area. Putting washers
under the braket to meet larger
> rotors is BS :-((
>
> Also
note that the pics are with much smaller rotors, stock sized in the
>
front. The 6-piston "show pic" looks like it was test-mounted in the
rear
on
> a first gen that has no drum for the emergency barkes. The
rear rotors are
> NOT available for drum EB's.
>
> Let them
first develop it properly and then think about getting it. There
> are too
much not yet done...
>
> Roger G.
> 93 & 96'3000GT
TT
>
www.rtec.ch***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:54:39
+0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake kit pictures
Ah, my calc fault, the 12.2 inch are only
310mm what is less than the 2nd
gen VR4 rotors. On them the wilwood calipers
work fine for sure and for the
NA's it's an improvement indeed.
The
wilwood calipers are fine for the VR4 too, very light and enough
clamping
power but my experience so far is that a 13" rotor doesn't make
sense unless
the hat is larger in dia too.
The bracket for this kit was made ok for
the small rotors. To be able to
get larger rotors up to 13.5" the bracket
had to be extended by using
washer under the bracket where the caliper is
mounted. This is NOT how it
should be done. Therefore a different bracket
for every size of rotor MUST
be developed with proper calculation of the
force the stuff must withstand.
Just immagine what happens if you drive at
160mph and you step onto the
brakes heavily and such a bracket
cracks....
It is a fact that in case of an accident the parts on a car
that may have
been related to the crash will be investigated. If it comes
out that such a
bracket was responsible for the accident, the maker has to
proof that he
delivered the proper quality and that the part is sufficient
for the
car. If the maker cannot proof that it is a very high penalty
and ultra
high claims (/we speak of millions of $$) will be on the courts
table. This
is why the producers of such "kits" do sell them for track
purposes. With
this they leave all responsibility to the owner/user of that
part.
I wanted to get the ok of the government for such a kit that then
could be
sold in Europe. The procedure for brake parts is very important and
critical as your life is tied up to them. So the brackets go to a spectral
analyzer where the density is measured. (this gives picture with colored
regions for different densities). Then the part will be tested like it
would on the car with a specific tool. The forces of all directiosn that
can happen will be applied. Afterwards, the density will again be tested to
see how the bracket will deform under use. Needless to say that such a
procedure is very expensive (about $8000 the last time I asked) and of
course many "brake kit" makers do not do anything like this. Here comes the
difference to professional companies like Brembo or AP. They do have such
test equippment in house and can proove that their parts are made for that
specific car and that it is suficcient for the applications. This is also
why Move-it kits are so expensive because they let their kits test by thr
government (German TÜV).
This is why I highly vote AGAINST such
home-made brake kits that do not
have any certification. Neither the Big Red
kit nor this wilwood kit are on
one of my cars that run on streets ... no
way until the development is done
right !
Happy braking ...
Roger
G
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.chAt 15:53 30.11.2003 -0700, Erik
Petterson wrote:
>Yes, the parts have been around for a while. He
has designed his own
>bracket for the mounting points of the
calipers. He basically adapted his
>brackets from the Eclipse setup
that is VERY similar to the n/a setup. The
>pics are on MY '94 R/T
non-turbo and the 1st 3 are only the 12.2" rotor, the
>last 3 are the 13"
rotor. I said before they are NOT made to compete with
>the Big Reds
or the other expensive kits. He is trying to market them as
>Street
and occasional Track use. More so to the non-turbo's than
the
>heavily modded twin turbo bad asses on this list
;-)
>
>There is no pad overhang on his kits, and I don't know about
the washers (if
>you're talking about the 2 nuts on the wheel studs, those
are just on there
>to hold the rotor flat for picture taking
purposes). The last pic is the
>one I think you are thinking is only
3/4 touching, but it is a little too
>bright to see how the pad is
designed, it's supposed to be like that. I
>really don't want to
defend all the critics here. If you have "techie"
>questions then
please refer them to him. Obviously if there is room
for
>improvement please add in your two cents, as things are still open
to
>discussion.
>
>And YES he is positive that he can to a
rear kit, and retain the e-brake.
>
>-Erik
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 04:34:52
-0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
What is O2 Trim and what does it do?
Logic would dictate that O2 trim is
the minor A/F ratio correction performed
by the ECU based on the O2
readings... However, as I watch my trim bounce up
and down in a happy motion
while at idle, I do not see my Injector P/W going
anywhere... Which brings me
to think, how does O2 Trim work and what exactly
does it do?
Reason I
am wondering is because I am having a problem with the car running
WAY rich
when its "warm". Cold starts are fine, hot starts are fine. But let
the car
shut down for 15-30 minutes and it doesn't want to start because its
WAY too
rich... Tested the AIC/IAC, its fine. So looking into the trim to
see if I
can use it to diagnose...
Tyson
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:49:06
-0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What is O2 Trim and what does it do?
Sounds like a clear cut
case of a bad Coolant sensor. When the ECU detects
the engine is cold,
it dumps extra fuel into the engine as much of it will
not evaporate and burn
when cold. So, if it is getting a false signal, mega
rich is where you
will be. I think 11:1 to 12.5:1 is the approx range
during cold
conditions.
Good luck
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth
TT
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, December 01, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Team3S: What is O2 Trim and what
does it do?
> Logic would dictate that O2 trim is the minor A/F
ratio correction
performed
> by the ECU based on the O2 readings...
However, as I watch my trim bounce
up
> and down in a happy motion
while at idle, I do not see my Injector P/W
going
> anywhere... Which
brings me to think, how does O2 Trim work and what
exactly
> does it
do?
>
> Reason I am wondering is because I am having a problem with
the car
running
> WAY rich when its "warm". Cold starts are fine, hot
starts are fine. But
let
> the car shut down for 15-30 minutes and it
doesn't want to start because
its
> WAY too rich... Tested the AIC/IAC,
its fine. So looking into the trim to
> see if I can use it to
diagnose...
>
> Tyson
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:52:27
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What is O2 Trim and what does it do?
>> Which brings me
to think, how does O2 Trim work and what
>> exactly does it
do?
The "oxy feedback trim", as it is called on the TMO datalogger, shows
you the course of action the ECU is pursuing in an attempt to keep the A/F close
to 14.7. The pattern typically has a "sawtooth" appearance. If you compare the
pattern to the O2 sensor voltages, you will usually see that when the pattern
slope is going "up" (richening the mixture) the O2 values are low ("lean"), and
when the pattern slope is going "down" the O2 values are high
("rich").
>> ... I do not see my Injector P/W going anywhere...
Neither do I. Yet we know the ECU must be changing the injector
activation time in order to affect the A/F. I am guessing that the resolution of
the IPW reading is greater than the modulation by the ECU. I often see a mostly
constant 1.79 ms as the injector pulse width at idle. Since we are only looking
at a 0.7% difference between 14.8 and 14.7 A/F, we might expect the IPW also to
vary only by this small amount or about 0.01-0.02 ms. I have never seen the IPW
on the datalogger show this level of precision. The smallest I remember seeing
is only about 0.25 ms difference between readings.
>> I am having a
problem with the car running WAY rich when its "warm".
As mentioned, the
coolant temp sensor is a likely candidate for inspection. What does the
datalogger say for coolant temp as the engine warms up from a cold start?
Assuming the ECU itself is fine (caps are in good shape), look at my web page
below to see what sensors are used by the ECU to determine fuel injection and
inspect these for good operation.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelinjection.htmAlso,
even though you tested the IAC/ISC servo motor, observe the number of steps on
the datalogger for proper operation. More info on my web page below.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-isc-iac.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
To: "Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, December 01, 2003 5:34 AM
Subject: Team3S: What is O2 Trim and what
does it do?
Logic would dictate that O2 trim is the minor A/F ratio
correction performed
by the ECU based on the O2 readings... However, as I
watch my trim bounce up and down in a happy motion while at idle, I do not see
my Injector P/W going anywhere... Which brings me to think, how does O2 Trim
work and what exactly does it do?
Reason I am wondering is because I am
having a problem with the car running WAY rich when its "warm". Cold starts are
fine, hot starts are fine. But let the car shut down for 15-30 minutes and it
doesn't want to start because its WAY too rich... Tested the AIC/IAC, its fine.
So looking into the trim to see if I can use it to
diagnose...
Tyson
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:52:48
-0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Portable Lifts
With Christmas just around the corner, I'm trying to find
something to buy =
myself, and I came across this. Does anyone have one
of these, or somethin=
g similar? I think it would be awesome to have
something like this in my g=
arage. Sure would make life a lot
easier. Hope you all had a nice Thanksg=
iving (for those US
members!)
http://www.asedeals.com/low_rise_lifts.html <<Auto
shop low rise lifts at discount prices from ASE.url>>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:26:42
-0500
From: "Gene Calarco" <
gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ECM
Has anyone used AvPro for ECM repairs? I had my ECM go
out and was
considering ordering a replacement from OurECMS.com the
price difference in
the replacement/repair is about 200.00 difference.
Seems more economical to
use AvPro.
Eugene
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:41:15
-0500
From: "Gene Calarco" <
gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: ECM
If anyone has purchased from ourecms.com any feedback
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eugene
92' DOHC NT
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Gene Calarco" <
gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
To:
"Team3S" <
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Monday,
December 01, 2003 11:26 AM
Subject: Team3S: ECM
> Has anyone
used AvPro for ECM repairs? I had my ECM go out and was
>
considering ordering a replacement from OurECMS.com the price
difference
in
> the replacement/repair is about 200.00
difference. Seems more economical
to
> use AvPro.
>
>
Eugene
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:29:48
-0500
From:
ratkins@cfl.rr.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger windows.
Someone made an
error on that price quote or else the Canadian dollar has dropped below twenty
cents American. I replaced one that "blew" off just before a sale on my
'99 SL and I replaced it for under $20. Re-enquire and if you can go to
the delaer and ID the part on their system pictures.
badBob
'99
VR-4
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
bslade@shaw.caDate: Sunday, November 30,
2003 5:43 pm
Subject: Team3S: Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger
windows.
> I have a question on my 93 Stealth:
> The triangular
molding at the front of my drivers window has begun
> to split.
>
The one on the passenger side looks like it wants to as well. The
>
windowsdo not leak. Are these windows' travel distances
> adjustable? It
seems
> if I reduce the amount of travel upwards, it may save the
>
passenger side, but then they may start to leak....
> Chrysler Canada
wants $100 Canadian for that stupid molding......
> Any experience/help is
appreciated.
> Bob
> '93 Stealth R/T.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:04:38
-0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger windows.
If I
understand your post right, it's the little black plastic triangle piece that
you're looking for, and not the rubber seal. Here are the part numbers
with prices from Conicelli (Partznet.com)
Part Nos.:
MR248081 (Left outside,
$3.57)
MR248082 (Right outside,
$3.57)
MB641361 (Left inside, $3.74)
MB641362 (Right
inside, $3.57)
MF453031 (screws, if you want
to replace them, at $.52 each)
All prices are in US Dollars.
-
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of
ratkins@cfl.rr.comSent: Monday,
December 01, 2003 12:30 PM
To:
bslade@shaw.caCc:
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger
windows.
Someone
made an error on that price quote or else the Canadian dollar has dropped below
twenty cents American. I replaced one that "blew" off just before a sale
on my '99 SL and I replaced it for under $20. Re-enquire and if you can go
to the delaer and ID the part on their system pictures.
badBob
'99
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:15:31
-0800
From:
bslade@shaw.caSubject:
Re: RE: Team3S: Triangular molding at front of driver/passenger
windows.
Sorry guys. It's not the black plastice triangle. Its the Rubber
piece
that the window slides through. The Black plastic piece is sold
separate ($20). The Rubber piece has 3 bolts holding it on the door.
It
is split on the top where the window slides up (i.e. slides too far).
Only
1/2 inch of the window actually slides through it. Window is squared
off at
the front.
Hope I'm clearer this time.
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:36:00
-0800
From: "MM2 Phillips, J" <
phillipsj@duluth.navy.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Engine Starting Problem
I just installed a new engine in my 91
VR-4 ( or to be exact a used engine
from Nippon motors )
I changed the old spark plugs to Iridium plugs,
emptied the fuel
tank and put new fuel in it,
flushed the oil and put new oil in,
flushed
the coolant and put new coolant in,
and I have NOT installed the transfer
case, axles, or exhaust downpipe
yet...
I get good compression and
initial combustion out of the motor when
cranking, but motor will not stay
running... I have tried everything i can
think of... I don't know
what is wrong. the old motor ran fine ( with the
exception of a few
spun bearings lol ) ( put the car in storage for a year
while deployed with
the navy ) took the bad engine out, put the new one in,
hooked everything
up... and it doesn't run...
please help with anything you can think
of that I might want to try.
Ryan
Phillips - San
Diego
91
VR-4
PS: Does anyone know the size of the exhaust nuts that connect the
downpipes
to the turbo exhaust pipes and where I might be able to buy
them...?
*** Info:
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***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#313
***************************************