Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, November 15 2003 Volume
02 : Number 300
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:54:18 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
Hey Jim,
As said, the flex section between the precats is not really needed as the
both do not move differently. There are no known issues regarding problems
to this.
Regarding the diameter, with the precats still in place or even hollowed
out the diameter issues are not worth to speak about. We can talk about
this again, when the O2 housing and the precats are optimized so the
downpipe can match. But with the stock parts in place any dp will do the
same and you'll not see much if any difference. Even more, a smaller
diameter causes an increase in flow if the pressure is there. Of course the
smallest pressure in between the main cat and the turbine wheel is desired,
but again, the parts before and after the dp make the dicussion about the
diameter negligible.
BTW, do you remember our dyno day ? Your car was the only one without
exhaust modifications and yours performed as good as the other ones ! So
whassup with those exhaust mods ? Easy, the precats are the main
backpressure creater. If they are still in then any exhaust modification
afterwards is wasted money regarding performance. I do not speak of any
gain in loosing weight, what is the only cause that people see better 1/4
mile times. Also increased spool-up and other increased power-feelings are
not really there. Many dyno results have shown this and we all know, that
the weakest element in a chain causes the troubles.
So, I still propagate the ATR due to its quality (well not shiny but you
can polish it up), fittment (very good clearance) and universality (comes
longer than needed). I don't know how much a flex section costs (2-3 inches
is enough) but the ATR dp can be cut easily, the flex section and the
reducer to the main cat welded in. Should not cost you much even in the
foggy UK. But you can always ask Tyson if he can make a dp upon your
wishes.
If everything fails, I do have a 2nd gen stock dp lying around, almost new.
You'd only have to pay shipping to the UK from here ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:06:10 -0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: clutch slave cylinder?
It's actually very easy to replace the slave cylinder. You'll need to
remove your battery, the metal plate that the battery sits on, and the washer
fluid bottle. Then look down where the speed control unit hooks into the
tranny. The slave is right above it. It should be blue, and has two
bolts holding it in, plus a metal feed line. The metal feed line
loops around and connects to another feed line right above the speed
control. I found that it is MUCH easier to remove the feed line from that
connection rather than at the slave itself. The line is only about 3"
long.
When reinstalling, be very careful not to crossthread the feed lines.
They can be difficult to get in. Just take your time and make sure they
thread correctly. Also, you should prime the new slave with brake fluid
before installing it.
Good Luck!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:28:58 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
Since Geoff is not answering emails I'm looking for another source of
getting the pads for my car.
Does anyone know a good online shop that offers good pricing on those pads
?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:05:57 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
i offer Hawk and Porterfield pads (amungst others) for your ride...
my Price BeaterZ program...
please let me know if i can help....
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Try Carbotech pads. I've used R4, Pagid Black, Pagid Orange, and
Hawk
Blues, and find that Carbotechs work just as well and last nearly twice
as
long on the track. I've gotten up to FIVE track days out of a set
of
Carbotechs.
And, unlike the others, you can use them on the street. They squeak
and
squawk and dust something fierce on the street, but they work when cold
and
they don't score the rotors like Hawks do. This lets you put them in
ahead
of time and drive to the track and back.
An advantage over R4 pads: they don't build up deposits on the rotors
that
require a cleanup turn (these are the ridges that look like gouges in
the
rotor but are actually buildup of pad material).
I can't say anything good or bad about Pagids, except they cost more
than
most pads and I don't know why. They aren't that good to warrant their
big
price.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:36:03 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
these are the main reasons why i ditched the CarboTech pads....WAY too
much
noise (sounded like a delivery truck), dust was impossbile to get off
(still
on there after powerwashing, scrubbing, simple green, 409, paint
thinner,
acetone, engine cleaner, ect) dangerous when not up to temp.....i
have not
found the same with the Porterfield R4S pad....light on the dust,
easy to
clean, no noise, works well cold and hot.....fine pads in my (and
customers)
opinion, yours many vary. :)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:37:38 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
Very good input, thanks.
I used the Pagids together with my Bremsa rotors but holes and slots got
filles up quickly. Also a piece of the pads broke out during a heavy
session. besidfes of that the Pagid Orange was very good and lasted long.
For the street I bought the miu4 from Japan. They are popular over there
but don't work in the cold ... and it's cold here now.
What I noticed is that the stock pads on the 96 I bought last year are
showing angled wear. I can't describe it correctly but when you look to the
caliper where you pull out the pads, the pads are thinner on the upper than
on the lower side. I've never seen this yet but will watch this with the
new brakes then.
Unfortunately, the Carbotech are pretty high priced and I'm not sure if the
Bobcat are enough for the street. What do you think ? For track purposes
the willwood or Porsches are on the car of course.
------------------------------
What Carbotech pads did you have trouble removing the dust? I have
NEVER had any problem removing the dust with Panther and PantherPlus.
On the ohter hand, Hawk Blue's dust seems to be corrosive.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:55:15 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
mean greens.
didnt like the panther pads for similar reasons.
yes the blues are horrible for dust....but the work great (track
only)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
I don't use my Carbotechs on the street. Just to get to the track and
back,
and to drive around until I can find a convenient time to swap the
street
pads back in.
When good and hot at the track, they don't dust or make
noise.
Carbotechs are definitely NOT a good street pad like R4S pads.
But,
unlike almost any other race pad, you CAN use them on the street.
Rich
------------------------------
>I used the Pagids together with my Bremsa rotors but holes and slots
got
>filles up quickly. Also a piece of the pads broke out during a heavy
>session. besidfes of that the Pagid Orange was very good and lasted
long.
Now that you bring it up, I remember that I was quite annoyed with
Pagids
because they crumbled at the edges, and pieces of pad broke off. I
have a
set in my spare brake pad box that are only half wore down, but the
edges
are crumbly. I guess I'd have to be desperate to use them at the
track.
>What I noticed is that the stock pads on the 96 I bought last year are
>showing angled wear. I can't describe it correctly but when you look to
the
>caliper where you pull out the pads, the pads are thinner on the
upper than
>on the lower side. I've never seen this yet but will watch
this with the
>new brakes then.
I've seen that with stock pads. It may be something that happens over
long
periods of street time, because you won't see it at a track. I've
noticed
- -- at the track -- that the inner pad always seems to wear out
faster than
the outer pad. There is another mystery. Maybe it's just Murphy's
Law --
that is, the harder it is to check, the more likely it is to fail.
>Unfortunately, the Carbotech are pretty high priced and I'm not sure if
the
>Bobcat are enough for the street.
No, you do not want Carbotech race pads for the street. Way too
expensive
and too noisy. I use plain 'ol stock Porsche pads with my Big Reds
on the
street. R4S pads are good, too -- for the street.
>What do you think ? For track purposes
>the willwood or Porsches
are on the car of course.
I still advocate Carbotechs for the track. Luv 'em.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:29:05 -0800
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
What should my O2 values be under WOT?
.9X right? Could someone give me a scale of some sort to work with?
My
datalogger is logging .7X-.8X, that would mean LEAN, right? How lean is
too
lean? Where do I want to be?
Thanks,
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:06:24 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What should my O2 values be under WOT?
Every O2 voltage below 0.9 is lean on our cars. 0.85 at WOT around 4800
causes high knock in most cases. If you can go with 0.88 and not having
knock you're a lucky man. Usually knock dissapears after 0.92 - 0.96.
Wideband O2 are of course much better for analysing.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:14:18 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
Check the 3SI.org site --- I'm pretty sure some guy was selling the smaller
diameter pipes. I don't remember about the flex sections and I don't think
they
wer SS --- not an issue here in sunny Southern Cal.
A custom pipe shouldn't cost that much to build --- a good fabricator
will
have the pipe and you can buy the flex sections.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:26:56 -0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
I had the Pagid [ black, I think ] on my car once and they ate the rotors
and
produced a plasma like dust that I still have bits and pieces of on my
wheels.
I was thinking of turning NASA on to the product to use as a heat
shield
material. The rotor eating was probably a result of using race pads on
the
street --- from what I understand race pads are tough on rotors when
cold.
A 'trick' I use to help the dust issue is to spray the wheels and any other
parts
I want to keep clean with silicon lubricant. I just spray it on and
wipe it down after
half an hour or so --- it provides a non stick surface
that can be cleaned easily.
You would be wise not to apply to the rotors
since it's a lubricant.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:37:27 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> Carbotechs are definitely NOT a good street pad like R4S pads.
>
But, unlike almost any other race pad, you CAN use them on the street.
likewise you can use the R4S on the street and track without much
hassle.
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:40:40 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> Now that you bring it up, I remember that I was quite annoyed with
Pagids
> because they crumbled at the edges, and pieces of pad broke
off.
overheated
> I guess I'd have to be desperate to use them at the track.
i wouldnt.
> That I noticed is that the stock pads on the 96 I bought last year
are
> showing angled wear. I can't describe it correctly but when
you
> look to the caliper where you pull out the pads, the pads are
thinner on
the
> upper than on the lower side. I've never seen this yet
but will watch this
with the
> new brakes then.
pretty common sign of improper install of improper brake operation.
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:36:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
Im not?
:(
What did I miss?
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:25:40 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Carbotech Pads (was: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where?)
There seems to be a lot of opinions flying around. Time to intervene before
it gets too hairy.
I stand behind the Carbotech Engineering pads that I carry. Both street
pads and track pads. They are excellent pads in all respects. This is why I
carry them. It is not that I carry them and therefore they are good, it is
the other way around. I carry them and I use them and I am very happy with
them. I have sold many dozens this year and heard nothing but praise.
***Not a single*** squeal or dust complaint.
Short summary of the guede:
* Axxis Ultimate (distributed by Carbotech)
- Street and autocross
compound, the most exceptional value.
* Carbotech
Bobcat - Premium street and autocross.
* Carbotech Panther Plus - Our
favorite open tracking compound.
* Carbotech Panther XP - High heat, high
friction, very long-lasting open
tracking competition compound.
*
Carbotech Panther XP9 - Very high heat, high friction, very long-lasting
open tracking competition compound.
For Roger I recommended Carbotech Bobcats. NO noise, less dust than any
other mentioned pad, high friction, extremely rotor friendly. Will stand
all the high-speed braking that he does there in Europe. I know several
most knowledgeable WRX autocross drivers who prefer these pads over all
others.
Axxis Ultimate pads are very similar. For half the price you get a similar
performance although with some dust, which is not any higher than R4S or
any other pads than me or my customers tried. Axxis Ultimate pads have been
endorsed by Carbotech Engineering, Cobalt Friction, StopTech for use with
their brake kits, Subaru WRX club members and a growing number of delighted
3000GT/Stealth owners.
I am sure that nobody who has expressed strong opinions on this board tried
these pads, however my customers and I love these pads.
Rich -- try Bobcat pads. Your comments have been about Panther XP pads that
are racing pads that are recommended for occasional street use only enough
to get to the track.
Terry -- I am not sure what Carbotech pads you used. Carbotech does not
make green pads. You will be surprised if you try correct pads for your
application.
Chuck -- thanks for the comment about the Panther Plus pads. They are great
pads that are made specifically for the track, which I am sure you know.
Try Bobcats of Axxis Ultimate for the street. You will save a lot of dough
over Hawk Blue pads by not wearing through brake rotors as fast.
------------------------------
Your upper pistons likely got seized. You need to rebuild your calipers if
that happens. Other symptoms are unusually hot rotors during normal
driving, brake drag that feels like the car does not roll well enough and
it is low on power.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:12:31 -0500
From: "Ved" <
1994TT@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S:
GReddy Profec B hose location problem????
I have GReddy Profec B boost controller that came with the car when I
bought
it. I pulled my engine and disconnected the hoses that go to the
area of
throttle body. Now I am a bit confused with the hoses. It
looks like the
boost controller hose went into the little T connector
that branches into
the TC waste gate actuator and one of the 4 metal
lines (where the hose with
green lines was before) that go under the water
distributor towards the
radiator. My major problem is, the boost
controller hose goes to the metal
line, where the green hose was before, and
the hose with green lines was cut
shorter about 1 in right where it went into
the metal line before. I can
not find another hose that would go
into this green hose that was cut. Do I
just live it open and
disconnected or what goes on it??
Thanks a lot
VEt 94 Stealth TT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:17:03 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
R4S are terrible on the track. I had excellent results with R4 on
the
track, amazing performance, no warp or fade, though I did get the ridges
as
Rich described. I had a very poor experience with Panther Plus pads
at the
track on Tuesday. Will try Panther XP next time, but I'm
thinking it will
be hard to beat the R4 for my setup (stock calipers, Motul
600, cryoed
Porterfield rotors now horribly warped).
*** Team3S, 3SI #0030, GTOUK #155
***
http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R Mk1
(1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer, Blitz Super Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth
fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
PF cryoed rotors, R4S pads, SS
lines w/SBs, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171
mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno
Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:19:12 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Yet another reason not to tune with OEM O2 Sensors...
Take a look here:
This is with the stock ECU, stock O2 sensors, and stock injectors.
The WB oxygen sensor used to read the AFR is located about 8" downstream of the
OEM front bank front O2 sensor, and there is no precat involved. The
reference voltage (ground) for the data logger is the ECU ground wire, so I
don't think there should be problems with the data from that end.
The highest the OEM oxygen sensor ever reached was 0.83V, and it was often
0.79-0.81V. Compare this with the generally-accepted practice of tuning an
AFC or other fuel management device to get the OEM oxygen sensor to read
0.92-0.94V. As far as I can tell, if I made changes to my fuel maps or
airflow signal such that the sensors read 0.9X volts, that would likely be
running insanely rich.
------------------------------
On the track? Only on the rear.
They don't last for diddly on the
front.
Rich
------------------------------
>R4S are terrible on the track.
Hear, hear.
>I had excellent results with R4 on the
>track, amazing
performance, no warp or fade, though I did get the ridges as
>Rich
described.
Fortunately, they clean right off with a light cleanup turn. Last time,
we
took the ridges off with a handheld...er, whatever they call it down at
the
brake shop. Looks like a small handheld power wirebrush the width of
a
rotor surface. They use it to, well...clean up the rotors.
I had a very poor experience with Panther Plus pads at
the
>track on Tuesday. Will try Panther XP next time,
I've tried both, and prefer the XP
> but I'm thinking it will
>be hard to beat the R4 for my setup
(stock calipers, Motul 600, cryoed
>Porterfield rotors now horribly
warped).
Warped? Man, I have NEVER warped a cryoed rotor. That's why I get
them
cryoed, so they don't warp.
What you doing to them brakes, Jimmy
boy? You got enough cooling air to the
rotors? Get ducts, dude.
Rich>
------------------------------
At 09:09 AM 11/14/2003,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
>And, unlike the others, you can use them on the street. They
squeak and
>squawk and dust something fierce on the street, but they work
when cold and
>they don't score the rotors like Hawks do. This lets you
put them in ahead
>of time and drive to the track and back.
Rich -- you have Big Reds have pads that are at least 50% bigger than stock
and thus run cooler, this is probably why they squeal on the street. My
stock-sized Panther Plus and Panther XP do not squeal, even in the
street.
But regardless, use race pads at the track and street pads in the street
and you will have no squeal or fade problems. Carbotech pads just have a
wider operating temperature range than other pads, but they still have
street and track pads.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:05:38 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
It's still a bit of a mystery. Due to the slippery conditions, I was
not
braking anywhere near as hard as my last track day, but a shudder
surfaced
after only a few laps. By the end of the day, the left rear
R4S pads were
worn down to the backing plates and the front Panther Plus pads
were charred
white (see last picture at
http://www.team3s.com/~matthews/images/STEALTH/doningtonpark031111/).
It's
as if the rear pads were doing all of the work before burning out
and
shifting all the work to the fronts (vs. previous track days, where
rear
wear wasn't even noticeable). I haven't had a chance to identify
which of
my four cryoed rotors are warped, but when you see the in-car video
I shot,
you won't believe how bad things were (felt like all four were
toast). The
camera shook so violently that it was switching modes, and
the car was
nearly uncontrollable. Really, really bad, and very
disappointing.
I don't have any extra cooling, but at the previous event, the R4 pads
took
far more abuse and performed flawlessly all day long.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:18:23 -0000
From: "Jim Matthews" <
jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
Agreed (actually, mine performed BETTER than the others at low revs, which
I
still find interesting). But if I can find a 2.25" downpipe with a
Y
connection that bolts up to all three cats, then I'm completely covered
for
emissions and can still eliminate the precats with straight "test pipes"
for
the track. I don't want to "gut" anything - I want to have a choice
to run
either fully functional cats or no cats at all. Is that
unreasonable?
So other than the lack of a front flex section, the ATR is the best
fit?
------------------------------
You definitely have a problem. Sounds like something has failed or
gone
awry -- such as a proportioning valve, crimp in a brake line, stuck
piston
in a caliper, or whatever -- and it has completely upset your
braking
system. I had something similar happen once when I wore down a set of
front
pads on the right front -- it caused my right rear pads to work so
hard,
they caught fire and smoked. The ABS will definitely compensate
for
whatever failing it detects in the system, and I bet it found something.
I
wonder if you can read out a code on it?
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:39:49 -0800 (PST)
From:
vr4glenn@newsguy.comSubject: RE:
Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
They absolutely move differently.
The engine will rotate about the axis formed by connecting the dots of
the
right and left motor mount. This rotation is limited by the
front/rear mount.
So, when one is going up, the other is going down.
In the example of a single flex section, it must absorb all this movement.
Try this: take your favorite #2 pencil. Grab the eraser with
your right
thumb and forefinger (front turbo), then the middle of the pencil
with your
left (rear turbo). Move your right hand up, left hand
down. Observe the
pencil point. All that movement is a single
flex section moving up and down.
I wouldn't expect a single flex design to
last 100k miles unless you've got
solid motor mounts...
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:43 -0700
From: "Zach Sauerman" <
axemaddock@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: oxygen sensor lessons learned
Good afternoon evryone.
Thought I would take a moment to share what I learned this past week about
the O2 sensors.
Mine were baked on pretty well, I confess they were much overdue to be
changed, and in that situation, the special O2 wrench is a piece of FOD. Use
a 22mm box wrench. Using a box wrench will allow you to hook another wrench
on as an awesome and much needed cheater bar. The rear sensor is a very
straightforward operation if you have got the intake plenum off like you
were playing with the spark plugs.
The front sensor is even easier to remove than maybe some people thought.
Don't bother with the alternator like the manual says. Pay your dues and
fight off the front heat shielding. Once the sensor is exposed, cut the
wires right at the base of the sensor. Then go underneath and drop the front
downpipe. Once that's out of the way, you can get your 22mm box wrench on
that sensor with no trouble. And you can hook that other wrench on as a
cheater bar.
WD-40 also helped.
When you install the new ones, use the special socket to get the torque
just
right.
I also became very comfortable with the idea that the front heat shield
needs only one bolt to stay put during reassembly. After fighting with the
lower pair, you may agree.
I hope somebody who is getting ready to do this job might find my input
helpful, as I only discovered that the downpipe was what needed to move
after a lot of poking around and fighting.
Respectfully,
zach sauerman
'94 Pearl Yellow TT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:08 -0700
From: "Trevor James" <
trevorlj@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Yet another reason not to tune with OEM O2 Sensors...
Weird...before I had a wideband I had my fuel setup via new stock O2's
to
0.96V. I hit the dyno in Feb and their wideband showed me at 11.1:1
on
initial turn in climbing to 11.7:1 at redline. I made no changes to
fueling
since it was spot on what I was shooting for.
A few months ago I picked up a wideband and it showed the same AFR as
the
dyno's wideband.
Are your stock O2's old? Have you ever run leaded race gas? Could
explain
why they're reading so lean compared to the wideband. How is your
gas
mileage?
Trevor
96 R/T TT with a couple reliability mods...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:59:39 -0800
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Yet another reason not to tune with OEM O2 Sensors...
I don't think this is an issue of old or new stock O2 sensors. This
is
just an issue of attempting to use sensors outside of their
intended
range. Stock O2 sensors are designed to be extremely accurate
at one
point - 14.7:1. They weren't meant to measure much on either
side of
that point, so results will vary from sensor to sensor.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:04:51 +0000
From:
mjannusch@comcast.netSubject: RE:
Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
That doesn't really play into the question at hand. There is no
flexing between the front and rear downtubes from the downpipe since both of the
ends it fastens to do not move relative to each other (they are fastened to O2
housings, which have no flex, which are fastened to the turbos which have no
flex, and then to to the exhaust manifolds that don't move around much.)
If it doesn't flex there, you don't need a flex section to accomodate
flex. The stock downpipe appears to have a flex section to ease assembly
and for no other reason I can see.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:54:14 -0500
From: "Arthurs Family" <
arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Winter Storage Prep?
Greetings,
Much to my sorrow, the snow-ice-salt has arrived in Western NY and I
must
put my toy ('92 Stealth RT/TT) away for the next 5 months. Outside
of
hanging little mesh bags filled with mothballs everywhere, a trick dad
says
will keep the little furry critters from nesting in the engine
compartment &
interior, are there any steps I should take before locking
it up in a cold,
dark warehouse for 5 long months?
Thank you for any advice on this subject.
Jon Arthurs
(Cold & snowy) Jamestown, NY
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:43:37 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
They move into the same direction rotating around an engine middle
point.
When one goes up, the other goes down. But the lenght and height
between the
two precats remains the same. On your pencil test you forgot to
angle the
hands when they move up and down, therefore no stress in between
them. You
need to use the same angle as the engine rotates. Look at those
pics :
Watch "A" ... it is stil lthe same lenght and no stress is between the
two
turbos or precats. It's still the same.
But look at the bend infornt of the main cat. This is where the flex
section
should go.
Therefore this illustration ahows, that it is only necessary to install
a
flex between the Y and the main cat or cat-back to eliminate the
movement
there. A flex between the precats is unnecessary luxury what
disturbs air
flow. A luxury that also makes installation easier as one can
bend the front
part. But with the ATR I never went into a problem, just
loosen the bolts of
the front pre-cat housing and installation is a
breeze.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:58 -0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Yet another reason not to tune with OEM O2 Sensors...
They are the original O2 sensors with 73,000mi on them, and I've never run
race gas in the car. My gas mileage is around 15-17 when driving around
town and in the low 20s on trips at 80mph with the windows down. Also,
it's not my daily driver, so when I'm driving it, it's generally "for fun" and
not "let's see how good of gas mileage I can get." :-) Those mileage
numbers are a little lower than I'd like, so I was thinking of replacing my O2
sensors with new OEM ones to see what the difference would be. Bosch tries
to tell ya that the sensors are only good for 50k, anyways...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:46:31 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
I fully agree with Matt... sorry I can't describe what I want to say as
good
as Matt just did ... he said all :-)
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
ww.rtec.ch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:09:43 -0800 (PST)
From:
vr4glenn@newsguy.comSubject: Team3S:
I was wrong [was]: RE: downpipe w/ dual flex bolting to all 3 cats
While drawing a picture proving I'm right, it became apparent that I'm not.
And my picture not as nice as Roger's ;-) But I was using ms-paint...
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:13:42 -0500
From: Mark Frouhar <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Winter Storage Prep?
Jon,
I hope someone else chimes in here because I've never actually done this,
my boat
doesn't count. It's a shame that you're putting the car down
for the winter. With
the right tires it's an extremely capable winter
car.
Here's a couple of things I can think of:
Stabil - sold at most autoparts. Follow directions and add to your
fuel tank to
stabilize the fuel for long storage. Gasoline
tends to change composition when
left for extended
periods.
Engine Fog (lubricant) - Not sure how you would apply this with the turbos
and all.
You're suppose to shoot it down the intake opening
until the engine chokes and dies.
Also in the spark plug holes
but that's not practical on our cars.
Put the car on jack stands - That way the weight of the car is off of the
tires.
Disconnect battery - bring it home with you so you can show up with a
charged battery
ready to go.
Can't think of anything else right now. Good luck
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:51:37 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> On the track? Only on the rear.
> They don't last for diddly on
the front.
again a lot bepends on your braking style and the track....the more you
use
your brakes the slower you will go.
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:51:53 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> R4S are terrible on the track.
depends on your braking style and track.
> Will try Panther XP next time, but I'm thinking it will
> be
hard to beat the R4
R4 is a fine track pad, if you need a high temp pad. not good on the
street.
the R4S is a fine high performance street/autox/track day pad. if you
know
how to (or dont use) your brakes much then the R4S pad may be the pad
for
you....remember the more you brake the slower you go. ;)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:51:48 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Carbotech Pads (was: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where?)
again myself and many of my customers have tried many of the pads
mentioned
(and others) and the R4S comes up as a winner as with the Hawks and
the R4.
the Carbotech does (or did) make green pads...."Mean Greens" they
were
called (ask Larry about them) and for good reason....they were
mean to the
rotors, you had to turn your radio up loud to overcome the
squeel, and were
very sensitive to operating temps, i have also heard
complaints about the
Panther pads as well, not being much more than a "metal
matrix" type street
pad....not acceptable for me or my customers.
im sure we can go on and on about "my pads can beat up your
pads"....your
opinion may vary.
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:51:43 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> You got enough cooling air to the rotors? Get ducts, dude.
first you might consider using them less.....its cheaper......however
it
does lack that PimpNHo "race car thing". ;)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
This is very strange. Something else was very wrong. Could it be that you
installed new pads and did not check your brake fluid level? If the fluid
level was too high, that might have created some residual pressure in the
system that dragged all the pads, including the rear ones. That is the only
thing that I can think of.
This is the first complaint that I have heard. There is a first time for
everything, I guess. But I do not believe that there was anything wrong
with your pads. Your pads came from the same batch as all the pads that I
ran on my car up to 1100-1200 F with no fade and no problems.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:53:50 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
> By the end of the day, the left rear R4S pads were
> worn down
to the backing plates and the front Panther Plus pads
> were
charred
> white
sounds like you have a hardware problem....that or a couple of days in
race
school may clean it up :)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:46:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Carbotech Pads (was: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where?)
> im sure we can go on and on about "my pads can beat up your
pads"....your
> opinion may vary.
- ---
hell..onve everyone brakes
the same..then we can discuss pad
feedback..but..to each thier own
eh.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:57:59 -0500
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Carbotech Pads (was: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where?)
At 07:51 PM 11/14/2003, Grd4Spd Racing wrote:
>the Carbotech does (or
did) make green pads...."Mean Greens" they were
>called
So Carbotech does not make green pads anymore then. I've heard stories that
they were making some street pads years and years before Bobcats (they were
buying that pad material from someone) but as far as I know, the Bobcats
are their first own street brake pad made with their own formulated brake
compound.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:10:19 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
panther replaced the greens.....they are quiet(er) but lack the
staying
power that the greens had.....IMO they were really nothing more than
Axxis
Metal Matrix "high performance street pads"......which are not
acceptable,
YMMV.
again, myself and many of my customers are very happy with the
performance
of the R4S and R4 Porterfield compounds, good product, decent
price good
customer support and service.
regards,
terry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:32:21 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Carbotech Pads (was: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where?)
Comparing Panther to Stillen Metal Matrix is just bogus. That's not opinion
- it's fact.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Okay, Terry, so you have tried some greens and made up your mind. That does
not apply though to Panther, Panther Plus, Panther XP and Panther XP9 that
came after.
Notice, I am not arguing with you about whose pads are the best. I am just
saying that you do not know diddly about the Carbotech product line.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:38:19 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
i think i said Axxis and not Stillen....but i could be mistaken.
regards,
terry
------------------------------
my apologies for misreading. then Axxis metal matrix must be better than
Stillen metal matrix.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:40:50 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
i have experience with the Carbotech line, hence my preference
to
Porterfield products, my apologies if you were mislead.
regards,
terry
------------------------------
No, Porterfield just has a better commission structure, but of course, that
will not sway your professional opinion, right? But that is not a technical
point worthy of this list.
If you really want to discuss the facts, then I am willing to talk. Other
than that, it will stay as my word versus yours. If you want to compare
apples to apples, state some performance parameters for your favorite pads,
like friction coefficient, minimum operating temperature, highest operating
temperature, composition, abrasive and adhesive properties, anything else
that could be measured that comes to mind. That would be a useful
discussion then. If not, then I am done.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:22:37 -0800
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield or Hawk pads, where ?
seeing that there is some keen interest in the Porterfield specs, one
can
find this data on the Porterfield site and in the Porterfield catalogue,
you
can download it for free! 8)
regards,
terry
------------------------------
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:05:33 -0500
From: Patrick Smyth <
smythpal@sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: Shudder on Acceleration
Hi folks,
I have a 92 TT with 142K miles. Over the last week, when I accelerate (at
any speed) I get a shudder in the car, similar to having a flat. While
cruising there is no vibration. Tire pressure fine, engine fine, not a tire
balance issue.
Took it to the shop (not overly familiar with Stealths, but good people
I've dealt with over 15 years) and found the rear diff leaking, and the
drive train in need of replacement - universal joints worn, and the front
third portion had a loose component inside it. After the replacement, and
filing the diff, same problem.
Have I damaged the rear diff with low fluids?
Any recommendations greatly appreciated.
A couple of other questions - my shop called around for rear diff parts,
and were told no new or used were available in Canada. I searched most of
the links on the new/used page, and could not find any. Is there a shortage
of these components, and where can I source them if necessary?
We tried to order in just the front third of the drive train, but were told
it comes as a unit. True?
Thanks for the help.
Pat Smyth 92 Stealth RT Electric Blue
------------------------------
*** The fact that their repair did not fix the problem makes me wonder
whether the drive train was really "in need of replacement" The
u-joints are not really a "constant velocity joint" that would cause that
sort of shudder.
Have you considered that your motor mounts might be bad? You can
visually inspect the one on the drivers side.
It's unlikely that you damaged the rear diff by low fluid, unless you were
doing something very demanding. Any lubrication back there seems to work
pretty good. You could isolate it by disconnecting the drive shaft to the
rear axle and driving the car to see if it still shudders on
accelleration.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:22:53 -0500
From: Patrick Smyth <
smythpal@sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: Shudder on Acceleration
Hi folks,
Just to avoid confusion (I just re read my email *after* sending it out) I
have a 92 RT turbo.
Pat
I have a 92 TT with 142K miles. Over the last week, when I accelerate (at
any speed) I get a shudder in the car, similar to having a flat. While
cruising there is no vibration. Tire pressure fine, engine fine, not a tire
balance issue.
Took it to the shop (not overly familiar with Stealths, but good people
I've dealt with over 15 years) and found the rear diff leaking, and the
drive train in need of replacement - universal joints worn, and the front
third portion had a loose component inside it. After the replacement, and
filing the diff, same problem.
Have I damaged the rear diff with low fluids?
Any recommendations greatly appreciated.
A couple of other questions - my shop called around for rear diff parts,
and were told no new or used were available in Canada. I searched most of
the links on the new/used page, and could not find any. Is there a shortage
of these components, and where can I source them if necessary?
We tried to order in just the front third of the drive train, but were told
it comes as a unit. True?
Thanks for the help.
Pat Smyth 92 Stealth RT Electric Blue
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:19:59 -0500
From: Kraig Delaney <
krgdelny@optonline.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Axle Advice, engine rebuilding
Hi, I am rebuilding my engine in my 91 Stealth RT and I need some
advice
to take out the front axle. We have the manuals to the car but
we can't
figure out how to do them. The car is down to mostly a block
in the
front of the car. If anyone has any experience with trying to
rebuild
an engine for a RT, please give us some help. The reason for
rebuilding
was the engine got water locked. We think it was a rod in
the lower
part of the block and hopefully has not damaged the block. If
you have
any advice in restoring a Stealth RT engine, please write them
down.
Kraig,
91 Stealth RT - blue
91 3000 GT VR4 - pearl white
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:29:31 -0500
From: "Ved" <
1994TT@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Please I need help with the boost controllor installation guide????
Hello,
My car started up after 10 months of waiting. However, it's
not idling
right and I believe it's because I did not connect the GReddy
Profec B boost
controller right. I really need detailed instructions on
the installation.
I am not sure where to connect the hose going from the
GRaddy solenoid
(black box), The hose was somewhere under the throttle
body. Also, I am not
sure what to do with those stock hoses that have
to be disconnected or
bypassed and which ones have to be
disconnected?
Anybody had problems like me??? Please help, my car is not
working
good??
Thanks a lot
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:22:03 +0100
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Please I need help with the boost controllor installation
guide????
The installation is the same for all boost controllers. I have a small
guide
here
http://www.rtec.ch/dsbc_inst.html,
others like Jeff have soem on their
websites. In general it's very easy
:
- - black-box is installed in between the hose comming from the black
plastic
intake ellbow (marked red).
- - stock boost solenoid is disabled
by pulling the lower hose of the two and
capping the nipple of the valve and
the hose.
That's it.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:10:48 -0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Shudder on Acceleration
Could be a front CV joint too... in my non-turbo, I had this
shudder
upon acceleration, I was on a highway drive at the time, and then all
of
a sudden, the inner CV joint just came apart... AWD's have these
same
joints, 8 total, iirc, so have those checked out too...
- -Cody
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#300
***************************************
