Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, October 31
2003 Volume 02 : Number
288
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:20:25 -0600
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Road
America Oct 2003, Cooling Problems
So there I was at the allwheel dyno
again yesterday doing some fiddling
about :) and noticed my water temps going
up to 213 degrees. I still have
the thermostat out, thought well
maybe...nah that won't make it heat up
more...the 2x12" fans on the PPE
aluminum radiator are programmed to come on
at 185 and 188 degrees by the AEM
computer I'm running...
Well, AEM Computer has again decided to be
intermittent about running my
fans; they were NOT WORKING! I reloaded
the program, which seemed to work
at Road America, but this time did NOT
work. Reloaded another and it
started working. I now don't know
if it is really the reloading, or just a
"random" failure of the AEM computer
to turn the fans on....and this may
have been happening at Road America too,
though the times I checked in the
pits they were working.
Just trying to
provide accurate information on my cooling issue, including a
Confounding
Variable (AEM computer glitch)...
Will have to convert my AEM Software
Version 0.94 to the latest version that
is "supposed to fix more of the
glitches" and see if that helps. This is
bullshit but what can I do...I
need indicator lights to see on dash if my
fans are on! Manual fan
switches?? The computer should be doing this. If
I can't trust it
to do this simple thing, how long before it decides to
forget when to fire
the ignition and such...grrr.
I do plan on big oilcooler, frontend
ducting, an extractor hood, like
Pitroad M; wish it didn't have the dumb
forward facing vents on the strut
towers though. Maybe I will hack
vents into my crappy,
blown-off-by-NOS-explosion hood for experimentation
purposes.
I will have to get a manometer or barometer or whatever to do some
underhood
pressure experimentation with the various changes, like the other
Team3S
person has (I have the email but forget while typing who posted it,
Thanks!)
I have heard from someone that the plastic undertray (on my VR4 the
Active
Aero dam) from the front lip to behind the radiator helps cooling
alot
"especially over 130mph".
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
Work on aerodynamics as well, a FULL front airdam & splitter could
solve
> those pressure isues AND suck more thru the radiator.
>
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003,
merritt@cedar-rapids.net
wrote:
> > >I have been reading a bunch of good engineering books
today. The back
of
> > >the hood is a high pressure zone. It is
good for air inlet or for the
> > >cockpit ventilation air inlet.
You do not want to raise the back of the
> > >hood to increase air
flow through the radiator. The very front of the
hood
> > >is
also a high-pressure zone. The only low-pressure zone there is the
> >
>front-middle part of the hood.
> > How about the strut tower
bulges? Those are off to the side.
> > It seems to me that we want to
relieve the underhood pressure so that
air
> > can flow freely
through there. Air should be able to enter the radiator,
be
> >
pulled through by the fans, and exit under the car or out hood vents.
>
> Otherwise, pressure builds up and prevents cooling air from
getting
through
> > the rad and over the turbos. Jack says his
carbon fiber hood bulges
under
> > the pressure. That's a lot of
pressure, and it acts like a big dam. If
we
> > could get all that
high pressure underhood air to vent itself onto the
> > brake rotors,
we could kill solve two problems at once.
> > Rich/full of hot
air
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:22:20
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003, Cooling
Problems
Jack,
I am very curious about your major heat reflective
taping project.
Can you be specific about what should be taped and
whether to keep heat IN the component or OUT of the component?
Chuck
Willis
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:44:42
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Team3S: Bumper and Vented hood (was: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!)
I
just saw an EVO in a parking lot. I think we have a lot to learn from
our
little brother. This car has one of the best front ends and one of the
best
vented hoods from a cooling standpoint, IMHO. It has an intercooler
down
low in the lower part of the grille opening. The intercooler does not
close
the whole radiator, only its lower half. The upper part of the
grille
opening provides a direct and unobstructed access of air to the
radiator.
This is the highest pressure zone in the whole car. The Skyline has
the
same setup. The 3/S has a flat and closed bumper panel there.
The
hood has a large opening in the middle of its front 1/3rd part. This is
where
the most low-pressure zone is. Air is pulled through the radiator and
vented
out through that hood opening.
The back 1/3rd of the hood and aft is a
high-pressure zone. The air is
slower there and it is being compressed as it
is being deflected from the
windshield. The WRX has even positioned their
intercooler inlet there.
The Pitroad M hood has two openings: the front
slot and the back slot. I
think it also has a few other random openings. The
front one is located in
the correct location. The back one and others
probably need to be plugged
up because the air enters them and not exits.
Joh, do you have their hood?
Could you please attach a piece of yarn near the
back opening and see in
which direction the air is going through it?
I
have a little technical write-up for EVO VII here. It sez: Lancer
Evolution
VII sports a dynamically aggressive front end characterized by
the following
elements: ... a front bumper with integral grille and side
slots that both
reduce drag and improve engine cooling. The aluminum engine
hood reduces
weight while optimally located heat extraction outlets and
NACA ducts (dunno
what those are) promote engine temperature
control.
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:57:50
-0600
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: NACA ducts
ion outlets and
>NACA ducts (dunno what those
are) promote engine temperature control.
>
Here ya go:
www.quickcar.net/cooling/cp_nacaduct.htmlRich
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:08:20
-0600
From: "John C. Davidson" <
jd@edge-software.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Bumper and Vented hood
One of the many pet projects I've wanted
to do for a long time is to rig up the
entire car with yarn tags every
couple inches (like they do in the wind tunnel
tests) and then video tape
the aerodynamics of the car in real world conditions.
To get a
real-world baseline of the stock body characteristics prior to deciding
on
where to put ducting vents, etc. To my knowledge no one has done this...
not
even the folks that went to all the effort of making the various
aftermarket
bumpers, hoods, fenders, and wings. Sure, there are lots
of "theories" about
where the best spots are, but no real world data (except
of course for the
testing Mitsu probably did long ago and we'll never
see).
Anyway, should anyone do this, a few suggestions:
- - be sure to
wait for an ideal day, little cross-wind, nice lighting, choose a
location/time with little or no traffic, etc.
- - have at least 2 video
cameras in the car mounted as high as possible, one
looking down on the
hood, and one looking down on the rear.
- - use another camera team in a
chase car that can move around the car taping it
from all sides (front,
back, sides, etc.) perhaps even a pickup so that you can
get some pics
looking down on the roof (note: be careful ;) )
- - be sure to use a yard
color with a good contrast to the paint color of the
car, ideally one could
convert the tape to b&w and get a good contrast
- - most importantly...
post the video to the web! ;)
Just an idea for those who have more time
than me...
-JD
> ...Joh, do you have their
hood?
> Could you please attach a piece of yarn near the back opening and
see in
> which direction the air is going through it?
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:01:08
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Polyurethane bushings --- group buy
It looks like someone is finally
making some poly bushings for our car --- Price is
higher than I'd like to
see but since no one else can seem to get it done I'm going
to sign
up.
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=174110&page=1&pp=20
Jim Berry
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:16:36
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Polyurethane bushings --- group buy
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> It looks like
someone is finally making some poly bushings for our car ---
Price is higher
than I'd like to see but since no one else can seem to get it
done I'm
going to sign up.
>
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=174110&page=1&pp=20>
Jim Berry
- ----------------------------->
3SX Performance has had
them for a couple of years now...
http://www.3sxperformance.com/engine-mounts.asp-
---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:25:35
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Re: Slow boost, was: Did another datalog...
From: "Ken Middaugh"
<
kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
>
Hi Bob,
> Slow boost has been my nemisis too ever since my rebuild 22
months ago. My
13G's wouldn't reach 1.00 kg/cm^^2 until 4200 RPM
in 3rd, and wouldn't even
come close in 1st or 2nd, usually .75 to .80.
I searched and elimiated boost
leaks, tried leaning out fuel, etc but nothing
helped. I got the same results
without a cat, and even without a
downpipe (I'm sure my neighbors enjoyed
those test runs!)
-----------snip--------> I finally figured out that upon
initial
installation, my improved spool-up times occured because I was
running
very rich. During retuning, I richened up the hi 3000 rpm setting on
my
SAFC. It worked! --------snip-------> Try some richer
settings in the
3000 RPM range to see if that helps your spool-up
times.
> With the maf-t/ls5 maf, my hi settings are much leaner than
before, although
my O2 voltages are higher. They run from .98 to 1.00,
whereas before, I tuned
to .94 to .96. Below are my current settings,
although I'm still fine-tuning:
>
RPM
Lo Hi
>
1000
-20 -35
>
2000
-29 -32
>
2500
-29 -32
>
3000
-31 -16
>
4000
-28 -33
>
5000
-28 -41
>
6000
-28 -41
>
7000
-28 -41
> Mods: MHI 13G's,
maf-t/ls6 maf with 8" K&N air filter, RC 550 cc injectors,
Supra fuel
pump, Eric Gross fuel pump rewire, SAFC, SAVC-R, gutted precats,
Melton
downpipe, high-flow cat, stock cat-back exhaust.
> Good luck Bob,
>
Ken
- ----------------------->
Hey, Ken..., thanks! (..and
thanks also to others for private replies...)...
This is great info
(especially since we have practically the same mods), and
it's right along
the lines of what Rick has been recommending, as well. Since
I have the
12-band SAFC-II, I'm even going to tighten up the settings between
2800 and
4600 to 300 rpm steps, so I can tweak them more precisely. I'll
leave
the non-problem rpm levels at 1000 rpm steps, like this: 800, 1800,
2800,
3100, 3400, 3700, 4000, 4300, 4600, 5600, 6600, 7600. I'll try
the
richening around 3000-4500 on the high throttle settings, of
course. Notice
that your map seems much leaner than mine.
(Probably because my turbos are
not 13G's-- I've got the larger TD04HL
turbine wheel and 13C compressor wheel
[clipped 5, not 15]). More air
requires more fuel.
I've got my map points at Low:10%, High: 50%, and my
last (heavy knock at
3000-4500 with pump gas) settings
were:
RPM Lo
Hi
1000 -28 -28
1600
-28 -25
2200 -28
-23
2800 -28
-20
3400 -28
-18
4000 -28
-18
4600 -28
-18
5200 -28
-18
5800 -28
-20
6400 -28
-25
7000 -28
-25
7600 -28 -25
Can you give me
your rationale for using a rich setting at the bottom of the
Lo-throttle
map? I always thought that a lean condition when the engine
isn't
"working hard" did no damage(?). I've pretty much left mine at a
lean-ish -28
(for me) through all my testing, and maybe that's causing
problems, too.
I'll have to wait to datalog my 3000rpm changes...
I've still got an
half-tank of 100 octane (my engine loves it - zero knock
anywhere) and I'm
running at Reno-Fernley this weekend. I'll post
results next week...
Thanks again!
-
--Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:44:53
-0800
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Polyurethane bushings --- group buy
Wrong answer --- you obviously didn't
look at the link. These are suspension
bushings NOT motor mounts which are
mounts not bushings. One more
egregious error like that and we'll take away
your posting privileges.
Jim
Berry
========================================
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
> From:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
>
> It looks like someone is finally making some poly bushings for our car ---
> Price is higher than I'd like to see but since no one else can seem to
get it
> done I'm going to sign up.
> >
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=174110&page=1&pp=20>
> 3SX Performance has had them for a couple of years
now...
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:21:07
-0500
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Team3S: Re: Bumper and Vented hood (was: Road America Oct 2003 Was
Great!)
This is from Jon (
jawieman@rockwellcollins.com):
-
----- Forwarded by Philip V Glazatov/CTC/DCC/DCX on 10/30/2003 12:18 PM
-
-----
I do not have the Pit-Road M hoot (M16 model is what you are
describing).
I have a cheaper "knock-off" version. The hood (besides
quality) are
identical except the rear heat extractor over the rear
turbo. The Pit-Road
M's rear vent is more of a cowl (opening in the
rear), while my hood opens
in the front, and appears to me to be an air
outlet.
I can attach a string, as long as it is not too long as then it
will just
blow out anyway.
NOTE: Another thing that I noticed
that when stopped at idle I can see
heat distortion waves in the air coming
from the rear heat extractor. In
the summer it was enough to distort my
vision of the cars stopped ahead of
me... quite cool. Also
after shutting off the car, a generous amount
heat can be felt escaping from
all vents. Can you give a in depth
aerodynamic description of my hood
at speed?
J.A Wieman
+++++++++++++++++
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:34:26
-0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Bumper and Vented hood (was: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!)
The early 90's celica GT4 was similar in the RC (Euro rally)
version:
http://speedtoys.com/~gemohler/celicas/bumper/DSCF0084.JPGOn
Thu, 30 Oct 2003
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I just saw an EVO in a
parking lot. I think we have a lot to learn from our
> little brother.
This car has one of the best front ends and one of the best
> vented hoods
from a cooling standpoint, IMHO. It has an intercooler down
> low in the
lower part of the grille opening. The intercooler does not close
> the
whole radiator, only its lower half. The upper part of the grille
>
opening provides a direct and unobstructed access of air to the
radiator.
> This is the highest pressure zone in the whole car. The
Skyline has the
> same setup. The 3/S has a flat and closed bumper panel
there.
>
> The hood has a large opening in the middle of its front
1/3rd part. This is
> where the most low-pressure zone is. Air is pulled
through the radiator and
> vented out through that hood opening.
>
> The back 1/3rd of the hood and aft is a high-pressure zone. The air
is
> slower there and it is being compressed as it is being deflected from
the
> windshield. The WRX has even positioned their intercooler inlet
there.
>
> The Pitroad M hood has two openings: the front slot and
the back slot. I
> think it also has a few other random openings. The
front one is located in
> the correct location. The back one and others
probably need to be plugged
> up because the air enters them and not
exits. Joh, do you have their hood?
> Could you please attach a piece of
yarn near the back opening and see in
> which direction the air is going
through it?
>
> I have a little technical write-up for EVO VII
here. It sez: Lancer
> Evolution VII sports a dynamically aggressive front
end characterized by
> the following elements: ... a front bumper with
integral grille and side
> slots that both reduce drag and improve engine
cooling. The aluminum engine
> hood reduces weight while optimally located
heat extraction outlets and
> NACA ducts (dunno what those are) promote
engine temperature control.
>
> Philip
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:17:05
-0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Third control arm bushing?
I'm parts hunting for a steering &
suspension rebuild, after checking out
the control arms on my 93 SL I see the
two oft-mentioned control arm
bushings AND what appeares to be a third LARGE
rear bushing. I can look up
the part number in CAPS but I was wondering what
anyone could tell me about
it's use, replacement critiria & possible
after market sources. Another
question I have is: does anyone have the exact
Id/OD/length of these three
bushings?
I DO have a lathe, access to steel,
bronze & polyurithene stock & prefer to
make my own stuff if
possible.
Pete Rivenburg
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:02:37
-0500
From: Christian Longtin <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
> Contact *all* of them and
see who is *most* interested in working on your
car
> and honoring the
previous work order. Every dealership is required to do
the
>
work, if it's necessary under the recall. And don't forget
-
Chrysler/Dodge
> dealers do the recall work too. Don't limit
yourself to Mitsu dealers.
> ---Forrest
Thanks for the advice Bob
but the dealer certaintly didn't see it
the same way. At the beginning, he
didn't want to listen at all
to my problem then when I told'em it was a 92
and he said it was a different
story.
He then checked for some information
with my VIN number, which failed. After
that, I explained to him every detail
of the problem and when I said "not
the right sealant from Mitsubishi on the
transfer case", he said to me that
he couldn't do anything about the recall
because the car wasn't made by the
Chrysler corporation since it's a
Mitsubishi.
He added if it was a Stealth then it would of been alright and
that if
there's something wrong with the recall that I should go to a
Mitsubishi
dealer.
Is he telling the truth or is he just not interested at
all in helping me ?
Christian Longtin
92 3000gt
vr-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:30:44
+0000
From:
IndyStealth@comcast.netSubject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Christian Longtin" <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
To:
"Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>;
<
Team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case not
leaking ???
>
> > Contact *all* of them and see who is
*most* interested in working on
your
> car
> > and honoring
the previous work order. Every dealership is required to
do
>
the
> > work, if it's necessary under the recall. And don't
forget -
> Chrysler/Dodge
> > dealers do the recall work
too. Don't limit yourself to Mitsu dealers.
> >
---Forrest
>
> Thanks for the advice Bob but the dealer certaintly
didn't see it
> the same way. At the beginning, he didn't want to listen
at all
> to my problem then when I told'em it was a 92 and he said it was
a
different
> story.
> He then checked for some information with
my VIN number, which failed.
After
> that, I explained to him every
detail of the problem and when I said "not
> the right sealant from
Mitsubishi on the transfer case", he said to me
that
> he couldn't do
anything about the recall because the car wasn't made by
the
> Chrysler
corporation since it's a Mitsubishi.
> He added if it was a Stealth then
it would of been alright and that if
> there's something wrong with the
recall that I should go to a Mitsubishi
> dealer.
> Is he telling
the truth or is he just not interested at all in helping me
?
>
>
Christian Longtin
> 92 3000gt vr-4
3000GT VINs will not
be found in the Dodge dealer's computer -- they only
have Dodge VINs in the
database, including Mitsu-built Dodge cars. (I have
access to the
Chrysler database)
Dodge dealers will only do recall work on Dodge
cars. When they are done,
they send the bill to Chrysler Motors, not to
Mitsubishi.
So, you may find a Dodge dealer who has done work on Stealths
and 3000GTs,
but you won't find one that will do *recall* work on a
3000GT. I am fairly
certain that the opposite also
applies.
Roger Roskam
91 "Indy" Stealth RT/TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:30:50
+0000
From:
IndyStealth@comcast.netSubject:
Re: Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Christian Longtin" <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
To:
"Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>;
<
Team3s@team3s.com>
Sent:
Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case not
leaking ???
>
> > Contact *all* of them and see who is
*most* interested in working on
your
> car
> > and honoring
the previous work order. Every dealership is required to
do
>
the
> > work, if it's necessary under the recall. And don't
forget -
> Chrysler/Dodge
> > dealers do the recall work
too. Don't limit yourself to Mitsu dealers.
> >
---Forrest
>
> Thanks for the advice Bob but the dealer certaintly
didn't see it
> the same way. At the beginning, he didn't want to listen
at all
> to my problem then when I told'em it was a 92 and he said it was
a
different
> story.
> He then checked for some information with
my VIN number, which failed.
After
> that, I explained to him every
detail of the problem and when I said "not
> the right sealant from
Mitsubishi on the transfer case", he said to me
that
> he couldn't do
anything about the recall because the car wasn't made by
the
> Chrysler
corporation since it's a Mitsubishi.
> He added if it was a Stealth then
it would of been alright and that if
> there's something wrong with the
recall that I should go to a Mitsubishi
> dealer.
> Is he telling
the truth or is he just not interested at all in helping me
?
>
>
Christian Longtin
> 92 3000gt vr-4
3000GT VINs will not
be found in the Dodge dealer's computer -- they only
have Dodge VINs in the
database, including Mitsu-built Dodge cars. (I have
access to the
Chrysler database)
Dodge dealers will only do recall work on Dodge
cars. When they are done,
they send the bill to Chrysler Motors, not to
Mitsubishi.
So, you may find a Dodge dealer who has done work on Stealths
and 3000GTs,
but you won't find one that will do *recall* work on a
3000GT. I am fairly
certain that the opposite also
applies.
Roger Roskam
91 "Indy" Stealth RT/TT
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:08:12
-0500
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
He's telling the truth. If
you have a Stealth, then a Mitsu dealership is not legally obligated to honor a
Chrysler/Dodge recall, even though if you look under the skin, the car is a
Mitsu car. The opposite is also true--Dodge has no legal obligation to
honor a Mitsu recall. Imagine the chaos if that wasn't the
case.
<<<After that, I explained to him every detail of the
problem and when I said "not
the right sealant from Mitsubishi on the
transfer case", he said to me that
he couldn't do anything about the recall
because the car wasn't made by the
Chrysler corporation since it's a
Mitsubishi.
He added if it was a Stealth then it would of been alright and
that if
there's something wrong with the recall that I should go to a
Mitsubishi
dealer. Is he telling the truth or is he just not interested at
all in helping me ?>>>
Christian Longtin
92 3000gt
vr-4
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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:07:07
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
> He's telling
the truth. If you have a Stealth, then a Mitsu dealership is
not
legally obligated to honor a Chrysler/Dodge recall, even though if you
look
under the skin, the car is a Mitsu car. The opposite is also
true--Dodge
has no legal obligation to honor a Mitsu recall. Imagine
the chaos if that
wasn't the case.
-
-------------------------->
This *does* make perfect sense...
I've had no problem having work done on my
Stealth at Mitsu dealers, and my
VR-4 at Dodge dealers. But that doesn't mean
they HAVE to honor each
other's warranty. Like you said, Joe, it would be
chaotic if they
did.
But I must disagree about it being a "Mitsu car". If anything,
it's a "Dodge
car". It was designed by Chrysler in their Hyland Park
Think Tank in
California (with help from Porsche and Ferrari), and then
assembled, built,
(and even on a small level 're-designed', for some systems)
by Mitsubishi.
Even the contract between the two companies bears this
out. Dodge promoted
the car with the phrase, "Designed by Dodge. Built
by Mitsubishi.", which
tells the whole story. You don't get to say that
if it isn't your design.
Mitsubishi was only allowed to use the phrase "Built
From The Ground Up.",
(which really means nothing except the obvious
reference to how gravity
works), because they just manufactured the parts for
both, and assembled the
cars in Nagoya. One Japanese book in the early
90's stretched the truth a
little, and every US car magazine picked up the
fallacy - that it was a Mitsu
design. But IF it really was designed by
Mitsubishi and not by Dodge, you can
*bet* their ads would have said so,
instead of Dodge using the phrase,
"Designed by Dodge". You won't find
the phrase, "designed by Mitsubishi"
anywhere except when they're writing
about specific mechanical systems that
Mitsu actually originated. The
3S line is a "Dodge car", and the best "shop"
they could get to build the
parts and assemble them was Mitsubishi.
-
--Forrest
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End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#288
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