Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, October 30 2003
Volume 02 : Number
287
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:22:12 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Spun rod bearing - now what
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
> I have a 1991
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
> Well, my last trip to the track ended with some
loud knocking and my local
Mitsubishi dealership has diagnosed it as a spun
rod bearing. The dealership
(Concord, CA) estimates it would cost about $4500
if they can rebuild the
engine, or $9000 if it needs a short block. They also
quoted 15 hours at
$125/hour (inflated because it is heavy maintenance) or
about $1900 to just
remove/replace the engine.
-
--------------snip--------------->
I would call one of the Good Guys
dealers in our area and get other prices.
When the Stealth engine blew at
Thunderhill, I brought it to Wynn's Motors
(SF), and he gave me some prices
on various options which were much lower than
what you are getting from
Concord. The new short block from San Rafael Mitsu
was priced at $2450,
but I chose to go with a complete rebuilt long block
direct from Chrysler,
$2200 through Wynn's, and he would remove/replace it for
$1500-$1800. I
added the full warranty of parts *and* labor for $250, in case
anything went
wrong. The total tab was ~$4850, incl core charge of $175 (my
old
engine was trash and not usable), tax, a new pan, timing belt (etc),
water
pump and all the goodies. This was for the SOHC motor (94
Stealth), so you
can figure something like $1000 more, IF you choose the same
option for your
turbo. Rick has bought a JDM DOHC short block for
$2400, and I'm sure there
are other deals out there, plus <$2k for labor,
if you don't do it yourself.
Even if someone else does the work, I see
$5k-6k, but *certainly not* $9000!
Good luck!
-
---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:46:27
-0500
From: "Arthurs Family" <
arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Spun rod bearing - now what
Michael,
Three days after
buying his '92 Stealth TT, my son had the same misfortune.
We can both get
into the details of the "amatuer" at home rebuild with you
if you choose to
go this route. Suffice to say the rebuild was a success
and has over
7000 trouble free miles since. Here's a synopsis:
1. sounds
like you have plenty of room! In our garage, we used 1 bay for
the car,
and the second bay to lay out all parts on a 4x8 sheet of
flakeboard waist
high on sawhorses.
2. You will spend about $4500 for parts and shop
work(assuming there is no
damage to the block). As long as it's
out, you may as well replace
everything "consumable".
3. Don't
even try unless you purchase a load leveler for your engine
hoist
(thanks again Mr. Crabtree). Would also suggest the $99 parts
cleaner from
local chain parts store. If you have an inexpensive (it
will get grungy)
digital camera, so much the better. This way you can
see what goes where
during final reassembly.
4. You will spend
about 3 weeks of evenings & weekends.
5. Must haves are good
set of tools and 1/2 & 3/8 torque wrenches. The
only "special" tool
purchased by us was the little belt tensioner tool.
Made our own tool to
remove crank pully. Don't forget "toe tags" and zip
lock bags from
walmart. If applicable, an understanding spouse and/or
parent is
prerequisite.
6. Our only prior rebuilding experience prior to this
was with small block
chevys & "old english". I must admit, the task
looked ominous, but once all
the electronics were removed, it's just another
engine. Follow the
instructions, check everything 3 times and you'll be
successful!
If you wish to discuss further, call (after 5:30 eastern) or
e-mail us.
Bill (Jon's father) Arthurs
Jamestown, NY
arthursfam@madbbs.com716-664-4109
6.
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:58 PM
Subject: Team3S: Spun rod bearing - now
what
> I have a 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
>
> Well,
my last trip to the track ended with some loud knocking and my local
>
Mitsubishi dealership has diagnosed it as a spun rod bearing. The
>
dealership (Concord, CA) estimates it would cost about $4500 if they can
>
rebuild the engine, or $9000 if it needs a short block. They also
quoted
15
> hours at $125/hour (inflated because it is heavy
maintenance) or about
> $1900 to just remove/replace the
engine.
>
> The good news is they are only charging me $51.50 for
the diagnosis. I'm
> getting it towed home and will proceed from there
with options other than
> with the dealership.
>
> I've been
following the list for a couple of years and have thought that
> some
folks have had great success with rebuilding and others with JDM
> blocks.
It also looks like it takes a bit of time to get the repairs
done.
>
> I've got some questions I'd like advice on. I had planned
on driving on
> November 15 and 30 at High Performance Driving Schools at
Thunderhill in
> Northern California. I'm thinking that rather than push a
fast repair, I
> will cancel my plans. I will probably attend the 15th as
an instructor.
>
> (1) Rebuilding vs. short block vs. long
block.
>
> The dealership said that the rebuild is a function of how
bad the crank is
> and how much metal has been thrown about in the
engine.
>
> I've already checked with M&S Recycling in
Sacramento and Mitsubishi &
> Nissan Recycling in Fresno and neither
has used engines. I'm going to go
> down Jeff Lucius' list to see about
other sources for engines (Nippon
> Motors, Japan Direct, etc). If anyone
has a good suggestion I'd appreciate
it.
>
> Also, one suggestion
was to obtain a used engine from Calumet in Texas. I
> had yet to hear
about them, however I do have a call into them to see what
> they might be
able to provide.
>
>
> (2) Doing the work myself vs. a shop
vs. the dealership
>
> I'm already thinking that the dealership is
way to expensive. I'm looking
> into other shops (I'm in the East Bay of
the San Francisco Bay Area) that
> might be able to do the rebuild or
engine replacement. I've noted that
> quite a few Team3S folks have pulled
their own engines and have indicated
> that it may be quite straight
forward.
>
> I'm wondering what you all might suggest as far as
doing this kind of
work.
> I'm curious as to how much space one needs
to pull the engine. I've been
> thinking that I might want to have the car
backed into the garage to allow
> me to work in the open garage door to
get the engine out and back in. I
> have a 3 car garage where the 2 car
bay is comfortably wide for one car (I
> have work benches and power tools
on both sides). I could possibly have
the
> single bay cleaned out to
allow me to work on the engine and to spread out
> parts. I could also
pull the engine and take it to a shop to get repaired
> and then put it
back in.
>
> I have the service manual and backup
CD.
>
>
> (3) All in all, the cost and time involved come into
play.
>
> It is way cheaper to do everything myself. However, it is
also a large
time
> commitment. I'm curious as to how much time might
be involved, depending
on
> how I approach the job. I can also see
farming out the whole job to
someone
> (other than the dealership). I'm
interested in knowing others experiences
> in success and cost for doing
that.
>
>
> Thanks for all the input I know I will get. I'm
bummed that I'm non-op for
> right now. I'm hoping to be back in the
saddle at some point.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike
Gerhard 1991
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl White
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:57:16
-0500
From: "Arthurs Family" <
arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Spun rod bearing - now what
Michael,
Before I
forget....definitely put the car in front forward!!! You'll have
to
push the car out once the engine is pulled!
Bill (Jon's father)
Arthurs
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:58 PM
Subject: Team3S: Spun rod bearing - now
what
> I have a 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
>
> Well,
my last trip to the track ended with some loud knocking and my local
>
Mitsubishi dealership has diagnosed it as a spun rod bearing. The
>
dealership (Concord, CA) estimates it would cost about $4500 if they can
>
rebuild the engine, or $9000 if it needs a short block. They also
quoted
15
> hours at $125/hour (inflated because it is heavy
maintenance) or about
> $1900 to just remove/replace the
engine.
>
> The good news is they are only charging me $51.50 for
the diagnosis. I'm
> getting it towed home and will proceed from there
with options other than
> with the dealership.
>
> I've been
following the list for a couple of years and have thought that
> some
folks have had great success with rebuilding and others with JDM
> blocks.
It also looks like it takes a bit of time to get the repairs
done.
>
> I've got some questions I'd like advice on. I had planned
on driving on
> November 15 and 30 at High Performance Driving Schools at
Thunderhill in
> Northern California. I'm thinking that rather than push a
fast repair, I
> will cancel my plans. I will probably attend the 15th as
an instructor.
>
> (1) Rebuilding vs. short block vs. long
block.
>
> The dealership said that the rebuild is a function of how
bad the crank is
> and how much metal has been thrown about in the
engine.
>
> I've already checked with M&S Recycling in
Sacramento and Mitsubishi &
> Nissan Recycling in Fresno and neither
has used engines. I'm going to go
> down Jeff Lucius' list to see about
other sources for engines (Nippon
> Motors, Japan Direct, etc). If anyone
has a good suggestion I'd appreciate
it.
>
> Also, one suggestion
was to obtain a used engine from Calumet in Texas. I
> had yet to hear
about them, however I do have a call into them to see what
> they might be
able to provide.
>
>
> (2) Doing the work myself vs. a shop
vs. the dealership
>
> I'm already thinking that the dealership is
way to expensive. I'm looking
> into other shops (I'm in the East Bay of
the San Francisco Bay Area) that
> might be able to do the rebuild or
engine replacement. I've noted that
> quite a few Team3S folks have pulled
their own engines and have indicated
> that it may be quite straight
forward.
>
> I'm wondering what you all might suggest as far as
doing this kind of
work.
> I'm curious as to how much space one needs
to pull the engine. I've been
> thinking that I might want to have the car
backed into the garage to allow
> me to work in the open garage door to
get the engine out and back in. I
> have a 3 car garage where the 2 car
bay is comfortably wide for one car (I
> have work benches and power tools
on both sides). I could possibly have
the
> single bay cleaned out to
allow me to work on the engine and to spread out
> parts. I could also
pull the engine and take it to a shop to get repaired
> and then put it
back in.
>
> I have the service manual and backup
CD.
>
>
> (3) All in all, the cost and time involved come into
play.
>
> It is way cheaper to do everything myself. However, it is
also a large
time
> commitment. I'm curious as to how much time might
be involved, depending
on
> how I approach the job. I can also see
farming out the whole job to
someone
> (other than the dealership). I'm
interested in knowing others experiences
> in success and cost for doing
that.
>
>
> Thanks for all the input I know I will get. I'm
bummed that I'm non-op for
> right now. I'm hoping to be back in the
saddle at some point.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike
Gerhard 1991
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl White
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:39:59
-0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
You mean the
full air dam would reduce under-car pressures enough to give
the air coming
through the radiator a place to go?
>>
Work on aerodynamics as
well, a FULL front airdam & splitter could solve
those pressure isues AND
suck more thru the radiator.
<<
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:47:43
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: OT: Learn to race with the Pros! Announcing a new driving
school with Pro Instructors
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> Must be operator
error old timer --- I was running 2:05's last year with no
brake problems. R4
pads with Porterfield non cryo treated rotors and Big
Reds --- no flames, no
fade.
> Jim Berry
-
------------------------------------>
This new Sears Point (Infineon)
is a whole different track, with more than a
dozen changes that slow you
down. (They also removed a number of markers
which drivers used as
turn-in points, including two overpasses.) The track
surface is
different (slower) and doesn't grip as well in a drift, they added
more
camber in 3 turns and changed the 7-8-8a-9 'Esses', there is a bump at
the
end of the front straight and another in Turn 1 - both of which unsettle
the
car totally for entering Turn 2, and a new rumble strip as you go into
Turn
10... I ran 4 seconds *slower* at the new configuration compared to
the
old one. Then I got the instruction and coaching from the "Gone
Racing"
gurus, Vicman and Butterfield and I dropped it to 2:05:37, which is
almost the
*same* best lap time that Vicman, the pro, got in my car
(2:05:16). And don't
forget, I'm on *stock* brakes, not Big Reds like
you've got! BIG difference
in stopping power, I'm sure you'll
agree. Not to take anything away from your
2:05 time - that's
outstanding! Your car setup and technique must both be
top-notch,
Jim. I can't wait to run with you again...
I'm going to try R4-E
endurance pads next time at Sears Point (November 22),
and I'm sure that some
of the "pucker factor" usage of my brakes will be
unnecessary. I was on
the scary edge of running at 9/10, since it was a new
line and
technique. But I'd like more brakes on the VR-4 - so it acts like
my
Stealth NT. Because of the 700 lb. less weight, the Stealth with
R4-S (not
even race pads!) stops on a dime, while the VR-4 with stock brakes
and R4 race
pads fades quickly under hard, race-level braking.
I did
2:12 on the old config with the Stealth NT, and 2:09 in the VR-4
(with
91-octane pump gas, 8psi boost, NO camber, stock brakes with [ugh]
Stillen
X-drilled rotors, and street pads), so it's "iffy" that you are
faster, but
certainly possible. But being the fastest is not why I'm on
the track. I'm
there to learn technique. After that, adding speed
is easy. I'm proud when I
pass "faster" cars, but I have no problem
when someone passes me. Even you,
old guy... ;-) I'm too
busy concentrating on technique to care. If your car
is set up better
than mine, it will be capable of better lap times, and you
can certainly stop
faster.
But that's what we're going to do at Reno-Fernley Raceway this
weekend -
setup. We've got 5 students for the weekend for the "Gone
Racing" school.
They jumped at the introductory rate of $195/day for "Phase
I" instruction--
YAY - customers! :-) (We can't start the school
in "full swing" yet, since
the skid pad isn't built there yet). But
there will be time in between
lessons to set up my car, when they are running
"open track" sessions. The
gurus think I should try 1/2 degree more
negative camber and 1/8" toe out
(I've got 1/16" now). And they are
going to help test drive it for me and set
it up properly - finally!
(Al Butterfield was an instructor and the main test
driver for the Bob
Bondurant School for 12 years). My previous (VR-4) best at
the
Reno-Fernley short track (1.5 miles) was 0:58, with 8psi and 'shot'
R4-S
street pads, so we'll see what happens with a new setup on my car: R4-E
pads
on the front and R4's on the back instead of R4-S (on the same stock
brakes
and Stillen X-drilled rotors), and running 16psi with 100-octane
gas. I'll
keep you posted how we make out.
- ---Forrest
[I
have to add a disclaimer here, as per the Team3S rules, since ET and I
are
principals in the "Gone Racing" School and we have a vested interest
as
"vendors". This is not a Team3S Admin endorsement of the
school.]
Vendor Sig - Contact:
ET@GoneRacing.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:47:06
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: A definitive answer to my old question!
From: "purdaddy" <
purdaddy@associatedsys.com>
>
Don't shoot me, but don't autos hold boost better (as in, don't take a
long
to shift so precious built-up boost isn't lost through blow off)? And
you
could then power brake and build boost for launches like
Turbo
Regals/GN's/Syclone/Typhoon's.
> Or, you could also be lazy or
get tired of shifting. Or, you just can't
drive a stick w/o whacking clutches
and internals.
> Ok, those last two may be off topic.
>
-Patrick
- ------------------------->
Believe it or not, in many
race classes where automatics are permitted, there
is a *penalty* assessed
for using an automatic tranny. It is an advantage of
giving the driver:
(a) less to do; (b) an easier time using the brake and
throttle for
trailbraking. At the track with an automatic, you can pretty
much drive
with your foot on (or over) the brake for settling the car down at
any time -
an *huge* advantage. I saw this happen in one of the Mustang
race
classes at Buttonwillow a few weeks ago, and they also moved several
slushbox
BMWs and WRXs running in the NASA "Time Trials" program from Class C
into
Class B (with me and the Vettes and Vipers) -- an automatic is
considered a
"mod", penalty: 3 points. Although the BMWs were
underpowered, the ability to
trail brake "at will" made them real contenders
in the corners. An automatic
AWD turbo 3S would be awesome, if it was
strong enough to take the stress. We
won't know for sure until someone
tries it.
- ---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:16:09
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: OT: Learn to race with the Pros! Announcing a new driving
school with Pro Instructors
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, fastmax
wrote:
> > It'd have to be a lot different to cause brake failure --- I
felt that I
could take at least 5 seconds off of my time [ 2nd time at
the track, 1st at
the full track ]. Turn one, nine and ten caused me some
problems [ pucker
factor ]. An additional bump in one sure can't help my
times though.
> > Jim
Berry
- ---------------------------->
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
brake failure can be a lot of things..not just the track.
> Bob..R4 or
R4s?
- ----------------------->
I'm running R4 pads, but they were
not BBQ'd first, and I had no time to
properly bed them before having to
run. I've had great success with this pad
in the past, so the poor
performance either came from (a) not bedding
properly, (b) I'm using my
brakes a lot more, or (c) my fluid was boiled at
some point in addition to
(a) or (b). I'm switching to R4-Es, which were the
best brake response
I've ever had (Thunderhill). I like the Porterfields
because they have
been predictable (until now), but I'll try another pad if I
have to. I
can't afford Big Reds right now, so I have to work with what I've
got - stock
brakes and cross-drilled Stillen rotors (which I hate).
-
---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:36:46
-0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: A definitive answer to my old question!
An auto on a road
course is a huge disadvantage Bob, only in drag racing
is it an
advantage.
gobs of lost HP, HUGE amounts of lost throttle reaction time,
tons less
engine braking..and a LOT more heat put into the cooling
system.
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Bob Forrest wrote:
> From:
"purdaddy" <
purdaddy@associatedsys.com>
>
> Don't shoot me, but don't autos hold boost better (as in, don't take a
long
> to shift so precious built-up boost isn't lost through blow off)?
And you
> could then power brake and build boost for launches like
Turbo
> Regals/GN's/Syclone/Typhoon's.
> > Or, you could also be
lazy or get tired of shifting. Or, you just can't
> drive a stick w/o
whacking clutches and internals.
> > Ok, those last two may be off
topic.
> > -Patrick
> ------------------------->
>
> Believe it or not, in many race classes where automatics are permitted,
there
> is a *penalty* assessed for using an automatic tranny. It is
an advantage of
> giving the driver: (a) less to do; (b) an easier time
using the brake and
> throttle for trailbraking. At the track with
an automatic, you can pretty
> much drive with your foot on (or over) the
brake for settling the car down at
> any time - an *huge* advantage.
I saw this happen in one of the Mustang race
> classes at Buttonwillow a
few weeks ago, and they also moved several slushbox
> BMWs and WRXs
running in the NASA "Time Trials" program from Class C into
> Class B
(with me and the Vettes and Vipers) -- an automatic is considered a
>
"mod", penalty: 3 points. Although the BMWs were underpowered, the ability
to
> trail brake "at will" made them real contenders in the corners.
An automatic
> AWD turbo 3S would be awesome, if it was strong enough to
take the stress. We
> won't know for sure until someone tries
it.
> ---Forrest
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:52:04
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
Great idea!
Removing part or all of the inner splash guards, towards
the engine, might
just buy some extra air flow out. Might be harder to
direct it towards the
brakes,
but it could be done.
Also, when I measured the pressure in
back of the hood, it was at least
twice as
strong in the center of the
hood. Center was still LT .5 psi at 100 mph
if I recall.
Sides were maybe
.15 psi or less.
..and Only below the hood trailing edge, as you would expect
from the
windshield 'dam' effect.
Raising the hood, or removing the rubber
seal, and making a 1/2 inch
deflector along the back of the hood would
probably pull air out at the
outer 1/4 of the hood trailing edge.
However, I like my earlier suggestion of under tray
dams/spoilers,
because you get
some downforce action as well as under
hood evacuation for cooling.
I'm thinking for the kind of power Jack is
making, it is the transfer
rate
within the block that is deficient. More
coolant contact, or better
transfer
methods are necessary to drain the
heat better.
Kurt
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com
[mailto:owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com]
On Behalf Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.netSent:
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:33 PM
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com; fastmax
Cc:
team3s@team3s.com;
xwing@wi.rr.comSubject: Re: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
>I have been reading a
bunch of good engineering books today. The back
>of the hood is a high
pressure zone. It is good for air inlet or for
>the cockpit ventilation
air inlet. You do not want to raise the back of
>the hood to increase
air flow through the radiator. The very front of
>the hood is also a
high-pressure zone. The only low-pressure zone there
>is the
front-middle part of the hood.
How about the strut tower bulges? Those
are off to the side.
It seems to me that we want to relieve the underhood
pressure so that
air can flow freely through there. Air should be able to
enter the
radiator, be pulled through by the fans, and exit under the car or
out
hood vents. Otherwise, pressure builds up and prevents cooling air
from
getting through the rad and over the turbos. Jack says his carbon
fiber
hood bulges under the pressure. That's a lot of pressure, and it
acts
like a big dam. If we could get all that high pressure underhood air
to
vent itself onto the brake rotors, we could kill solve two problems
at
once.
Rich/full of hot air
- --
To sub:
Email
majordomo@speedtoys.com with
a body of 'subscribe
3sracers'.
To unsub: Email
majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of
'unsubscribe
3sracers' "Ban low performance drivers, not high performance
cars."
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:59:22
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: A definitive answer to my old question!
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
An auto on a road course is a huge disadvantage Bob, only in drag racing
is
it an advantage.
gobs of lost HP, HUGE amounts of lost throttle
reaction time, tons less
engine braking..and a LOT more heat put into the
cooling system.
- -------------------------->
Oh, I'm very aware of
those issues, as I'm sure the organizers of these races
and events
are... Obviously, they feel that the net benefit outweighs the
net
loss, and creates an advantage for an autotranny on the race track.
Otherwise
they wouldn't assess a penalty of 3 points for a "slushbox mod",
now would
they? I guess they don't take into account the fact that even
though you'll
lead for 1/2 the race, you'll never finish...
LOL!
It ain't my logic, it's theirs. If they call it a "mod", then
I'd like to try
it. I'm "killer-good" with trailbraking on an
automatic... ;-)
OT: I left you a message, Geoff - I
need Porterfield stuff overnight. Call.
-
---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:52:46
-0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: A definitive answer to my old question!
Call
where?
Got IM?
AOL: SpdToy1
Yahoo: Supra87t
408 757
9001 (no msgs)
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Bob Forrest
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler"
<
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> An auto on a road course is a huge disadvantage Bob, only in drag racing
is
> it an advantage.
> gobs of lost HP, HUGE amounts of lost
throttle reaction time, tons less
> engine braking..and a LOT more heat
put into the cooling system.
> -------------------------->
>
> Oh, I'm very aware of those issues, as I'm sure the organizers of these
races
> and events are... Obviously, they feel that the net benefit
outweighs the net
> loss, and creates an advantage for an autotranny on
the race track. Otherwise
> they wouldn't assess a penalty of 3
points for a "slushbox mod", now would
> they? I guess they don't
take into account the fact that even though you'll
> lead for 1/2 the
race, you'll never finish... LOL!
>
> It ain't my logic, it's
theirs. If they call it a "mod", then I'd like to try
> it.
I'm "killer-good" with trailbraking on an automatic... ;-)
>
> OT: I left you a message, Geoff - I need Porterfield stuff
overnight. Call.
>
> ---Forrest
>
>
-
---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:12:41
-0800
From: "Guy, Michael (CS)" <
michael.guy@ngc.com>
Subject:
Team3S:
>Great idea! Removing part or all of the inner splash
guards, towards
>the engine, might just buy some extra air flow out. Might
be harder to
>direct it towards the brakes,
>but it could be done.
I might be a little out of my league here, (actually alot) but the more
I
look at the stock front ends for sucking air through the radiator,
there
just isn't alot of area for the air to really flow through.
I
put the Bomex kit all the way around my car (go ahead and flame away) and
I
now have an extremely large hole(gotta guess. Car didn't come to work with
me
today) 1.6 foot across and maybe 9 inches tall. That seems like alot of
air
flow, and then there are two more additional holes above it that angle
at the
top of the radiator. That would increase the air flow through the
radiator at
a much greater rate(?)
Also has two side scoops that are angled towards
the front tires, with added
brake cooling capabilites.
As for venting
it out, Kaze used to make, not sure if they still do, rear
facing vented hood
blisters that are functional I think.
Just my two cents here.
Mike
Guy
92 Stealth SOHC
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:17:12
-0500
From: "Shannon Rowe" <
shannonroweis@rogers.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil Cooler Upgrade Help
I can't recall who kindly pointed me in
the direction of Jeg's to order a
better, cost-effective oil cooler
kit. But I am looking for some help in
adapting it to fit my
Stealth.
The cooler itself is larger - 11" x 8" x 1.5" and looks like it
will fit in
the stock position. However, the kit is made for a GM V-8
and it seems the
fittings are too large.
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=35639&prmenbr=
361
If
anyone has experience with this, I'd love to know what was involved.
It
looks like the banjo lines are replaced by hoses.
Thanks in
advance,
Shannon
1992 Dodge Stealth R/T TT
K&N
FIPK
1970 Dodge Charger R/T 440
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:19:30
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
I am running
with the rear hood weatherstripping removed, but also with the front wheel well
splashguard extensions replaced by hardware cloth.
Chuck Willis
-
-----Original Message-----
From: fastmax [mailto:fastmax@cox.net]
Sent:
Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:24 PM
To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
team3s@team3s.comCc:
xwing@wi.rr.com;
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
NASCAR
has been using the area at the base of the windshield forever,
I know it's a
high pressure area but aerodynamics over the hood and through
the engine
compartment is a complex issue --- it take an hour or so to come
up with a
method to raise the hood and probably 15 minutes to impliment.
It looks like
a no-brainer to give it a try if you've got a overheat problem.
Several
folks have taped pieces of yarn on the hood to check air flow --- speak
up if
you have information folks !!!
Jim Berry
================================================
- -----
Original Message -----
From: <
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.com>
>
> I have been reading a bunch of good engineering books today. The back
of
> the hood is a high pressure zone. It is good for air inlet or for
the
> cockpit ventilation air inlet. You do not want to raise the back of
the
> hood to increase air flow through the radiator. The very front of
the hood
> is also a high-pressure zone. The only low-pressure zone there
is the
> front-middle part of the hood. It is probably a good place to cut
holes in.
> However, it would be good to test air pressure right under the
hood in that
> spot while driving before using a hacksaw. It could be done
easily with
> small air tubes taped onto both sides of the hood and a
water column type
> pressure gauge.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:24:10
-0500
From: Mark Frouhar <
mfrouhar@bear.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil Cooler Upgrade Help
That cooler looks identical to the
"TruCool" unit that I have on my TransAm.
That's the only thing you need from
that kit. The rest is probably useless
to you. I paid about $60
or so for just the cooler which is the same exact size,
you can get it from
Bruce's Speed Shop (973)664-0192. The in/out fittings
are 1/2" NPT so
you'll need a banjo adapter of some kind. I would stick
to the stock
lines they're pretty high quality, or fab some AN lines up
but that add$ up
quick.
Getting a hold of some banjo adapters is going to be key because
even if you
ditch the stock lines you still need to deal with the oil filter
mount
in/out ports which are banjo as well.
I don't know if our cars
have oil cooler thermostats or not. You want to
be careful with oil
temperatures since you're modifying the OE design.
good
luck
-Mark Frouhar
95'
VR4
85 TA 434 DFI T56
http://legoland.fbody.comShannon
Rowe wrote:
> I can't recall who kindly pointed me in the direction of
Jeg's to order a
> better, cost-effective oil cooler kit. But I am
looking for some help in
> adapting it to fit my Stealth.
>
>
The cooler itself is larger - 11" x 8" x 1.5" and looks like it will fit
in
> the stock position. However, the kit is made for a GM V-8 and
it seems the
> fittings are too
large.
***********************************************************************
Bear
Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation,
offer or
agreement or any information about any transaction, customer
account or
account activity contained in this
communication.
***********************************************************************
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:52:29
-0500
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
Wow! I was a little over half a qt low, and I only had a
qt
of 20-50 Maxlife I was saving for my 82 Celica.
Even this little
bit really perked up my VR4 oil pressure mixed
with my normal 10-40
synthetic blend. Guess my 130K motor
likes the stuff. My normal mix is 3 qts
5-30 and 2 qts 10-40.
Kurt,
with Maxlife kicker, plus 2 ticks on the
guage.
Still that's better oil pressure, but who knows if better
lubrication?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Monday,
October 27, 2003 4:23 PM
To: Ken Stanton
Cc: fastmax;
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991
Turbo engine
needed)
Im not insulting you..its still THAT simple.
It has
more resistance to flow when cold.
Who knows what they put in there..but
thats whats goin on.
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton wrote:
>
Mohler!
>
> What an insult to my intelligence! Do you think
I'm a bonehead or
> what? I'm smart enough to understand what weight of
oils is about, so
> I'll be more explicit this time.
>
>
MaxLife is the -ONLY- oil that removes (masks) my oil pressure
>
problem. Not natural 5c/qt oil, not mid grade natural, no blends, no
> pure syns, and not Mobil1. 0w-30 or 10w-50 i've had them
all.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
> Cc:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent: Monday,
October 27, 2003 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing
Spun bearings (was 1991
Turbo
> engine needed)
>
>
> > Its thicker when cold..simple.
> >
> > On Mon,
27 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I am -sure-
there is no oil pressure. The light comes on,
> > > and
even
> if
> > > the gauge and the light didn't work, the car
knocks like a
> > > sumnabitch.
> I
> > > rev it
quick, its gone. If this is so, any thougths as to why the
>
MaxLife
> > > oil would help sooooo much? With Mobil1 I
-never- have oil
> > > pressure on
> warm
> > >
starts.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
> ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > > To: "Ken
Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > >
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was
1991
> Turbo
> >
> engine needed)
> > >
> > >
> > > >
They did a poll on the 3SI.org site a while ago and that seemed
> >
> > to
> show
> > > 1st gen cars
> > > >
were affected more --- I don't remember the results but I'd
> > >
> guess the
> > > number of people
> > > >
responding was limited. To be statistically significant I'd
> > >
> think you
> > > would need several
> > > >
hundred examples and I know there was nowhere near that.
> > >
>
> > > > In the case of no pressure at start I'd suspect the
sending unit
> > > > ---
> does
> > > the
oil pressure
> > > > light come on also ???
> > >
>
> > >
> Jim Berry
>
> > > ====================================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ken
Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
> >
> > To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > > >
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 4:39 PM
> > > > Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings
(was 1991
> > >
Turbo engine needed)
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > It seems everyone dances around this statement directly, but
> > > > > which
> > > motors
> > >
> > (years, models) are we suspecting exactly?
> > > >
>
> > > > > I have a '91 that I'm trying to diagnose a low
oil pressure
> > > > > issue
> with.
> > >
> > It -occasionally- starts up warm with no pressure, but after
> > > > > a
> quick
> > > rev of
>
> > > > the engine pulls up to normal. No other issues.
Also, this
> > > > > problem
> is
> > >
> > minimized/nearly eliminated by using Valv MaxLife oil.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > >
> >
> > ---
> >
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com Team3S/3Si.org
> > Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW,
> > Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR
brakes? I can
> > help...asking is free! :) "If its in
stock, we have it!"
> >
> >
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota,
Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR
brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:21:37
-0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Tur bo engine
needed)
My 175K mile NA loves the stuff, it's all I put in any more.
Quitest the
valves have EVER been. more HP too. I would RATHER use synthetic
oils but
they tend to fly out the rings & seals.
Pete
Rivenburg
- -----Original Message-----
From: Zobel, Kurt D
[mailto:Kurt.Zobel@ca.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 1:52 PM
To:
Geoff Mohler; Ken Stanton
Cc: fastmax;
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: RE: Team3S:
RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991
Turbo engine
needed)
Wow! I was a little over half a qt low, and I only had a
qt
of 20-50 Maxlife I was saving for my 82 Celica.
Even this little
bit really perked up my VR4 oil pressure mixed
with my normal 10-40
synthetic blend. Guess my 130K motor
likes the stuff. My normal mix is 3 qts
5-30 and 2 qts 10-40.
Kurt,
with Maxlife kicker, plus 2 ticks on the
guage.
Still that's better oil pressure, but who knows if better
lubrication?
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Geoff Mohler
Sent: Monday,
October 27, 2003 4:23 PM
To: Ken Stanton
Cc: fastmax;
Team3S@team3s.comSubject: Re: Team3S:
RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991
Turbo engine
needed)
Im not insulting you..its still THAT simple.
It has
more resistance to flow when cold.
Who knows what they put in there..but
thats whats goin on.
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton wrote:
>
Mohler!
>
> What an insult to my intelligence! Do you think
I'm a bonehead or
> what? I'm smart enough to understand what weight of
oils is about, so
> I'll be more explicit this time.
>
>
MaxLife is the -ONLY- oil that removes (masks) my oil pressure
>
problem. Not natural 5c/qt oil, not mid grade natural, no blends, no
> pure syns, and not Mobil1. 0w-30 or 10w-50 i've had them
all.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
> Cc:
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent: Monday,
October 27, 2003 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing
Spun bearings (was 1991
Turbo
> engine needed)
>
>
> > Its thicker when cold..simple.
> >
> > On Mon,
27 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I am -sure-
there is no oil pressure. The light comes on,
> > > and
even
> if
> > > the gauge and the light didn't work, the car
knocks like a
> > > sumnabitch.
> I
> > > rev it
quick, its gone. If this is so, any thougths as to why the
>
MaxLife
> > > oil would help sooooo much? With Mobil1 I
-never- have oil
> > > pressure on
> warm
> > >
starts.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
> ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > > To: "Ken
Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > >
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Team3S:
RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was
1991
> Turbo
> >
> engine needed)
> > >
> > >
> > > >
They did a poll on the 3SI.org site a while ago and that seemed
> >
> > to
> show
> > > 1st gen cars
> > > >
were affected more --- I don't remember the results but I'd
> > >
> guess the
> > > number of people
> > > >
responding was limited. To be statistically significant I'd
> > >
> think you
> > > would need several
> > > >
hundred examples and I know there was nowhere near that.
> > >
>
> > > > In the case of no pressure at start I'd suspect the
sending unit
> > > > ---
> does
> > > the
oil pressure
> > > > light come on also ???
> > >
>
> > >
> Jim Berry
>
> > > ====================================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ken
Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
> >
> > To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > > >
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 4:39 PM
> > > > Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings
(was 1991
> > >
Turbo engine needed)
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > It seems everyone dances around this statement directly, but
> > > > > which
> > > motors
> > >
> > (years, models) are we suspecting exactly?
> > > >
>
> > > > > I have a '91 that I'm trying to diagnose a low
oil pressure
> > > > > issue
> with.
> > >
> > It -occasionally- starts up warm with no pressure, but after
> > > > > a
> quick
> > > rev of
>
> > > > the engine pulls up to normal. No other issues.
Also, this
> > > > > problem
> is
> > >
> > minimized/nearly eliminated by using Valv MaxLife oil.
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > >
> >
> > ---
> >
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com Team3S/3Si.org
> > Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW,
> > Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR
brakes? I can
> > help...asking is free! :) "If its in
stock, we have it!"
> >
> >
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota,
Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR
brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:46:05
-0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
> Still that's better oil pressure, but who knows if
better lubrication?
- ---
There ya go..you GET IT. :)
God and
those who designed the oil only know what high heat/abuse
conditions on a
turbo motor will really think of this new thick stuff.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Geoff Mohler
> Sent:
Monday, October 27, 2003 4:23 PM
> To: Ken Stanton
> Cc: fastmax;
Team3S@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991
> Turbo engine
needed)
>
>
> Im not insulting you..its still THAT
simple.
>
> It has more resistance to flow when cold.
>
> Who knows what they put in there..but thats whats goin on.
>
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton wrote:
>
> >
Mohler!
> >
> > What an insult to my intelligence! Do
you think I'm a bonehead or
> > what? I'm smart enough to understand
what weight of oils is about, so
> > I'll be more explicit this
time.
> >
> > MaxLife is the -ONLY- oil that removes (masks)
my oil pressure
> > problem. Not natural 5c/qt oil, not mid
grade natural, no blends, no
> > pure syns, and not Mobil1.
0w-30 or 10w-50 i've had them all.
> >
> > Ken
> >
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
> To: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
> >
Cc: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>;
<
Team3S@team3s.com>
> >
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: Team3S: RE- Oil
squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991
> Turbo
> > engine
needed)
> >
> >
> > > Its thicker when
cold..simple.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Ken
Stanton wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes, I am -sure- there
is no oil pressure. The light comes on,
> > > > and
even
> > if
> > > > the gauge and the light didn't work,
the car knocks like a
> > > > sumnabitch.
> > I
>
> > > rev it quick, its gone. If this is so, any thougths as to
why the
> > MaxLife
> > > > oil would help sooooo
much? With Mobil1 I -never- have oil
> > > > pressure
on
> > warm
> > > > starts.
> > >
>
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > >
----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> > > > To:
"Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>; <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > > >
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > > Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was
> 1991
> >
Turbo
> > > > engine needed)
> > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > They did a poll on the 3SI.org site a
while ago and that seemed
> > > > > to
> >
show
> > > > 1st gen cars
> > > > > were
affected more --- I don't remember the results but I'd
> > > >
> guess the
> > > > number of people
> > > >
> responding was limited. To be statistically significant I'd
> >
> > > think you
> > > > would need several
> >
> > > hundred examples and I know there was nowhere near that.
>
> > > >
> > > > > In the case of no pressure at
start I'd suspect the sending unit
>
> > > > >
---
> > does
> > > > the oil pressure
> > >
> > light come on also ???
> > > > >
> > >
> > Jim Berry
> > > > >
====================================================
> > > > >
----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ken Stanton"
<
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
>
> > > > To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> > > >
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 4:39 PM
> > > > > Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings
> (was 1991
>
> > > Turbo engine needed)
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> > > > > > It seems everyone dances around
this statement directly, but
> > > > > > which
>
> > > motors
> > > > > > (years, models) are we
suspecting exactly?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> I have a '91 that I'm trying to diagnose a low oil pressure
> >
> > > > issue
> > with.
> > > > >
> It -occasionally- starts up warm with no pressure, but after
>
> > > > > a
> > quick
> > > > rev
of
> > > > > > the engine pulls up to normal. No
other issues. Also, this
> > > > > > problem
>
> is
> > > > > > minimized/nearly eliminated by using
Valv MaxLife oil.
> > > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> > > >
> > >
> > > ---
> >
>
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com Team3S/3Si.org
> > > Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota,
Audi, BMW,
>
> > > Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do
you buy YOUR brakes? I can
>
> > > help...asking is
free! :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
> > >
> >
>
> >
>
> ---
>
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org
> Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota,
Audi, BMW,
> Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR
brakes? I can
> help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we
have it!"
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:41
-0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
And what do they GET?
Regardless of lubrication,
I'm trying to address a problem of having NO oil
pressure (VERY bad).
Think of the MaxLife like a test - its only conducted
to find the answer, not
to solve the problem. So if you know why this
particular oil is so
great, pipe up! Otherwise, don't waste my inbox by
telling me that
different weight oils are different when cold. Besides, I
said it
happens on -warm- starts only.
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT -
<60k miles
Automotive Engineer
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
"Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Cc: "Ken Stanton"
<
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>;
"fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>;
<
Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
October 29, 2003 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun
bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
> > Still that's
better oil pressure, but who knows if better lubrication?
> ---
>
There ya go..you GET IT. :)
>
> God and those who designed the
oil only know what high heat/abuse
> conditions on a turbo motor will
really think of this new thick stuff.
>
>
>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:28:27
-0500
From: "The Furmans" <
L.Furman1@cox.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
I am apt to
disagree with you Kurt for 2 reasons,
1st if their was a heat transfer
problem from the block to the coolant
Jack would have been cooking the shit
out of his oil (and to date he
has not idicated that this is the
case)
2nd he wouldnt be boiling the cooling system over in the manner
that
Phils video clearly shows..
I am still agreeing with the rest of
the list that he is having an
airflow problem (he might just want to place
some shrouds etc...) and
this problem will begin to be adressed if not
resolved in full.
Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 DR650's and supporting
mods...
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
To: <
3sracers@speedtoys.com>; "fastmax"
<
fastmax@cox.net>
Cc: <
team3s@team3s.com>; <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday,
October 29, 2003 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct
2003 Was Great!
> Great idea! Removing part or all of the
inner splash guards,
towards
> the engine, might just buy some extra
air flow out. Might be harder
to
> direct it towards the
brakes,
> but it could be done.
>
> Also, when I measured the
pressure in back of the hood, it was at
least
> twice as
> strong
in the center of the hood. Center was still LT .5 psi at 100
mph
> if I
recall.
> Sides were maybe .15 psi or less.
> ..and Only below the
hood trailing edge, as you would expect from
the
> windshield 'dam'
effect.
> Raising the hood, or removing the rubber seal, and making a 1/2
inch
> deflector along the back of the hood would probably pull air out
at
the
> outer 1/4 of the hood trailing edge.
>
> However,
I like my earlier suggestion of under tray dams/spoilers,
> because you
get
> some downforce action as well as under hood evacuation for
cooling.
>
> I'm thinking for the kind of power Jack is making, it
is the
transfer
> rate
> within the block that is deficient. More
coolant contact, or better
> transfer
> methods are necessary to
drain the heat better.
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com[mailto:owner-3sracers@speedtoys.com]
>
On Behalf Of
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:33 PM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com; fastmax
>
Cc:
team3s@team3s.com;
xwing@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: 3S-Racers: Road America Oct 2003 Was Great!
>
>
> >I
have been reading a bunch of good engineering books today. The
back
>
>of the hood is a high pressure zone. It is good for air inlet
or
for
> >the cockpit ventilation air inlet. You do not want to
raise the
back of
>
> >the hood to increase air flow through
the radiator. The very front
of
> >the hood is also a high-pressure
zone. The only low-pressure zone
there
>
> >is the
front-middle part of the hood.
>
> How about the strut tower bulges?
Those are off to the side.
>
> It seems to me that we want to
relieve the underhood pressure so
that
> air can flow freely through
there. Air should be able to enter the
> radiator, be pulled through by
the fans, and exit under the car or
out
> hood vents. Otherwise,
pressure builds up and prevents cooling air
from
> getting through the
rad and over the turbos. Jack says his carbon
fiber
> hood bulges under
the pressure. That's a lot of pressure, and it
acts
> like a big dam.
If we could get all that high pressure underhood air
to
> vent itself
onto the brake rotors, we could kill solve two problems
at
>
once.
>
> Rich/full of hot air
>
>
> --
> To
sub: Email
majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of
'subscribe
> 3sracers'.
> To unsub: Email
majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of
'unsubscribe
> 3sracers' "Ban low performance drivers, not high
performance cars."
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:33:46
-0600 (CST)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
If you dont like hearing "Its thicker" then dont ask "How
come I have
pressure on this oil when others done do the same
thing".
Youre the one gettin worked up over an answer thats
really..pretty
obvious.
The only thing that has more data than we have
here is the marketing
litererature printed on the bottle.
It just
flows thicker...thats what pressure is.
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Ken Stanton
wrote:
> And what do they GET?
>
> Regardless of
lubrication, I'm trying to address a problem of having NO oil
> pressure
(VERY bad). Think of the MaxLife like a test - its only conducted
>
to find the answer, not to solve the problem. So if you know why
this
> particular oil is so great, pipe up! Otherwise, don't waste
my inbox by
> telling me that different weight oils are different when
cold. Besides, I
> said it happens on -warm- starts only.
>
> Ken Stanton
> 91 Pearl White Stealth TT - <60k miles
>
Automotive Engineer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
To: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
> Cc: "Ken
Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>; "fastmax"
<
fastmax@cox.net>;
> <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent:
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:46 PM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: RE- Oil
squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
> engine needed)
>
>
> > > Still that's better oil pressure, but who knows if
better lubrication?
> > ---
> > There ya go..you GET IT.
:)
> >
> > God and those who designed the oil only know what
high heat/abuse
> > conditions on a turbo motor will really think of
this new thick stuff.
> >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:47:19
-0800
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Oil Cooler Upgrade Help
The kit you're looking at uses a sandwich
plate, which attaches to the oil filter housing. Since we already have a
stock oil cooler and thermostat, you don't need all that.
One of my
winter projects is to replace my OEM oil cooler with "something better."
I'm currently looking at some front mount coolers from PermaCool (
http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page10.html),
but I may go with a side mount. In any case, I'm planning to replace the
OEM banjo bolts at the thermostat with M16x1.5 to AN adapters (thanks for
tracking those down, Glenn!) That way, I can connect almost anything I
want to the OEM thermostat and not have any banjo bolts at all.
-
--Erik
> The cooler itself is larger - 11" x 8" x 1.5" and looks
like
> it will fit in the stock position. However, the kit is
made
> for a GM V-8 and it seems the fittings are too large.
>
>
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=35639&prmenbr=361>
> If anyone has experience with this, I'd love to know what was
>
involved. It looks like the banjo lines are replaced by
hoses.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:47:50
-0500
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RE- Oil squirters causing Spun bearings (was 1991 Turbo
engine needed)
Let me try one last time to get by your somber attempt to
brush me off and
demean my problem.
Assume my engine is perfect.
Any proper weight oil I use would hold ideal
oil pressure at all conditions -
cold starts, hot idle, warm starts,
cruising, etc etc.
Now, take my
engine. --Something-- about it is not perfect. For some
reason,
with all but one oil I have -no- pressure on warm starts.
Without
knowing what the problem is, I tried MaxLife and the condition was
masked.
Now, I seek to find what is special about this particular oil that
would
help lead me to my problem. I have used different weight oils as
well, from
0w-30 to 20w-50 and they have no affect on the
problem.
Recently, I have heard other ppl using MaxLife and having good
oil pressure
results. As their website states:
"a blend of premium
base oils with a seal conditioning agent, extra cleaning
agents, additional
anti-wear additives and friction modifiers. "
I've also hear ppl say that it
has Teflon, but why wouldn't they say that if
it were true?
Ken
Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
Infinity G35 Destroyer (latest
kill)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#287
***************************************