Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, October 23 2003
Volume 02 : Number
282
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:09:38 -0400
From: "Bedrock" <
rbedrock@rcn.com>
Subject: Team3S: LED
light in Stealth wing
I change the led light in my spoiler today with one
from Auto Zone. Took
about 2 hours with parts costing less than
$20.00. If anyone is interested
in 9 picks, email me off board and they will
come as an extracting file
(640k size).
Bob
White/Red 91 RT/TT,
Original at 141,000+
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:01:04
-0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: A different question on rotors
The "good" part of a rotor are
things you can NOT tell from just looking
at it.
Its metal content,
and casting procedures define "good".
Some vendors care about this, and
follow trending and QA info from the
field to determine if its time to shift
to other casting vendors or
not..others..buy whats the cheapest on the WORLD
market at that time, and
dont care that 80% of the hard-core drivers warp the
crap outta them, or
crack them..b ecause that 80% might only be 2% of thier
total market.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Gene Calarco wrote:
> So
after all the discussion on rotor technology we are still back to square
>
1. Science would tell us to use the 108.00 a piece stock Mitsu rotor
from
> the dealer over the drilled and slotted HP rotors for 180.00 a
piece. Are
> the less expensive OEM rotors just as good at 1/2 the
price say 70.00 a
> piece? Pep Boys? AutoZone? Ebay? If so has
anyone tried any that have
> measured up? If it's a good idea to
change the rotors every time you change
> break pads then why spend the
extra $$ for street use when they the less
> expensive ones should do the
job and will crack and warp just as fast as the
> expensive ones. If
OEM means requiring the rotor manufacture to meet the
> original road and
highway safety standards then I can't see using the more
> expensive
choices for only a marginal improvement in break ware and
>
performance.
>
>
> Eugene
> 92'DOHC NT
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
> To: <
Team3S@team3s.com>
> Cc: "Jeff
Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: A different
question on rotors
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
>
>
> >
> > > FWIW. :)
> > > From:
http://www.buybrakes.com/brembo/faq.html>
> ---------------------------->
> > LOL! "FWIW" - ("For
what it's worth"), and we all KNOW "what it's worth"
> that
> >
Brembo said it, don't we!?! Advertisers don't lie. ;-) Oh,
goody!
> Another
> > vendor selling their own product. What
do you expect them to say? I used
> to
> > write
advertising copy, so let me break down the TRUE meaning of these
>
quotes
> > for all of you..., one sentence at a time, the way the
copywriter
> *thinks*--
> > what it "SAYS", and what it
"MEANS": ;-)
> >
> >
> > What it
SAYS: "Brembo has extensively studied and tested
cross-drilling
> > versus casting the holes in place and found no
significant effect on
> > performance or durability.":
> >
----------------
> > What it MEANS: "We saw a 30% failure
rate on the track, but since 97% of
> you
> > will never use
these on the track, we don't regard this flaw affecting 3%
> of
>
> users to be *significant*. Most of you won't notice the difference if
our
> > drilled rotors warp when they're heated up, since you'll be
killed or
> arrested
> > if you ever run them that hard on the
street. Besides, it would cost us
> too
> > much to make
them as good as Porsche cast rotors, and you'd never buy them
> if
>
> we told you that anyway."
> >
> > What it
SAYS: "The main advantages of drilled and slotted discs are
the
> > same: increased brake "bite", and a continuous refreshing of
the brake pad
> > surface."
> > ----------------
> >
What it MEANS: "This is very much to OUR advantage, because
drilled
> holes
> > 'gouge' out the surface of the pad as they
pass over them. The
> 'refreshing'
> > of the pad surface
means that it wears away more quickly, creating an
> > increasingly
thinner pad with each use..., which is also to our
> advantage--
>
> The thinner pads will become hot much sooner, causing them to crack
and
> > crumble prematurely. Thusly, you'll have to buy our pads
more frequently,
> > making us more money."
> >
> >
What it SAYS: "Drilled discs have the additional advantage of
being
> lighter
> > and running cooler."
> >
----------------
> > What it MEANS: "We use less material
in our drilled rotors, which saves
> us a
> > great deal of
money. As long as the brakes are not applied, air passing
>
over
> > the lesser-mass rotor will keep it cooler, when compared to an
undrilled
> rotor
> > at full mass. Conversely, they will
also heat up faster, since there is
> less
> > metal to absorb
heat, but we don't see the need to discuss that, since
> then
> >
you won't buy our product."
> >
> > What it SAYS:
"However, there are certain pad materials that should not
> be
>
> used with a drilled disc."
> > ----------------
> > What
it MEANS: "We have to cover our ass here-- if you buy the pads
we
> > recommend for the street and you use them on the track, they
will fail
> rather
> > quickly. In fact, so will most of
the track pads we sell as premium
> products.
> > BUT, if you are
willing to spend the $300 each for the custom-made
> >
diamond-carborundum +++ pads we recommend for extreme applications, you
>
*may*
> > get the same results we did in our testing sample. Or
not."
> >
> > What it SAYS: "Braking generates
heat, and the more heat the disc can
> absorb
> > and dissipate,
the greater the fade resistance of the system."
> >
----------------
> > What it MEANS: "This happens to be
true, but we're not saying that it
> > applies to our product - it's
just a general fact. What we're telling you
> > here is that our
lower-mass rotor will absorb less heat, but you probably
> > think
that's a good thing, since we threw in this unrelated factoid.
>
We're
> > banking on the fact that you're as dumb as a rock, and that
you can't
> fathom
> > the significance of what we say - as long
as we use the right buzzwords to
> > hypnotize you. You'll
believe *anything* we tell you, as long as there is
> > water splashing
or dust flying off the wheels in our commercials."
> >
> >
What it SAYS: "Additionally, the use of a larger disc generally
results
> in a
> > larger effective radius, which increases brake
torque."
> >
> > ----------------
> > What it
MEANS: "This really has nothing to do with the topic at
hand,
> but...
> > We've got to plant the subliminal seed of
(whisper) *Upgrade, upgrade...*
> in
> > your tiny little
brain. You haven't a clue if 'increasing brake torque'
> is
a
> > good thing, but it sounds 'bigger', so dammit - we know you'll
buy it.
> You
> > also don't have the deductive powers to
recognize that 'generally' can be
> as
> > little as '51% of the
time', which means that in the extreme case, 49% of
> the
> >
time the use of a larger disc will NOT result in a larger effective
>
radius.
> > And you don't know if that is a good thing either, but
since we said it,
> you
> > can trust us."
> >
---
> >
> > "Caveat Emptor", people... ("Let the buyer
beware").
> >
> > Although I wrote the above commentary
somewhat "tongue-in-cheek", I'm
> really
> > telling you the
facts about how a copywriter thinks. I can't remember
>
which
> > famous "ad man" said it - it was either Bill Bernbach (Doyle
Dane
> Bernbach) or
> > Jerry Della Femina (Young & Rubicam)
- but it is THE truth about that
> > business: "Advertising is
all about selling a product that people don't
> want,
> > don't
need, and can't afford. And making them feel good after they've
>
bought
> > it, whether it's useful or not." Advertisers CAN and
WILL say *anything*
> to
> > sell their product, including
throwing a bunch of twisted facts at you
> until
> > you only see
the buzzwords, not the meaning. If the above quotes are the
>
best
> > Brembo can do, that cross-drilled, non-cast rotor must
*really* suck.
> IMHO...
> > ;-)
> >
> > Over
and out...
> >
> > Forrest
> >
> >
>
>
> > *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
> >
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:43:04
-0400
From: David Friedlander <
forzion@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Confirmed wheels
Damien;
Also, LOTS of places sell wheels.
I bought the Fittipaldi Force wheels with a 38
mm offset and love 'em!
Tirerack doesn't carry 'em though.
A sample view is at
http://www.wheelspecs.com/specs/wheelmodels/1105Dave
Friedlander
'94 SL
Bob Forrest wrote:
> ----- Original
Message -----
> From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
> > A
while back someone posted a link to a website that listed wheels that
fit
> our cars. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, could you
please fill me
> in? Thanks.
>
---------------------->
>
> The Tire Rack website shows about 50
different wheel choices that fit, BUT...
> you should enter the DOHC
NON-turbo model (3000GT SL or Stealth RT) when it
> asks you for which
model you own. If you enter the base or turbo models, it
> will show
you only about 5 wheels IIRC...
www.tirerack.com>
--Forrest
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
Bob Forrest wrote:
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Damien" <
dabinch@actionsd.com>
> > A
while back someone posted a link to a website that listed wheels that
fit
> our cars. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, could you
please fill me
> in? Thanks.
>
---------------------->
>
> The Tire Rack website shows about 50
different wheel choices that fit, BUT...
> you should enter the DOHC
NON-turbo model (3000GT SL or Stealth RT) when it
> asks you for which
model you own. If you enter the base or turbo models, it
> will show
you only about 5 wheels IIRC...
www.tirerack.com>
--Forrest
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:28:12
-0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Another wheel question...sorry
Offset is only part of the
equation - the important part is the actual
design of the wheel...
I
would go to the same size wheel/tire all the way around. Firstly, it
is
REQUIRED to have the same size tires all the way around, so you don't
really
gain a lot by going to a wider wheel in the back...
- -Cody
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
Behalf
> Of Nick McDermott
>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:31 PM
> To: Team 3S Email Distribution
List
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Another wheel question...sorry
>
> I purchased a set of 4 45mm offset wheels for my project car.
They do
> NOT clear the brake calipers in the front, and I am adding
small
spacers
> to compensate for this.
>
> My brakes
appear visibly to be stock, but I have strong suspicions
that
> a
previous owner of the car had the brakes upgraded to a bigger
version
>
of the stock Sumitomo calipers, so 45mm may clear in your case
>
perfectly.
>
> Nick McDermott
> 93 VR-4 (Most likely
mothballed until spring.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
Behalf
> Of Damien
> Sent:
Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:54 PM
> To: 3S List
> Subject: Team3S:
Another wheel question...sorry
>
> I'm confused about what wheels
will fit my '93 VR-4. Does anyone know
> if
> the following
wheels will work?
> Wheels are 18x8.5 45 offset in front and 18x9.5 40
offset in back.
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:37:39
-0700
From: kapatton <
kapatton@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: alternator compatibility?
Hi,
Are alternators for the
3000gt and Stealth interchangeable with each other?
Will alternators from
certain years not work with other years and/or models? I
need to replace the
alternator in my '94 base 3000gt, and have the option of
buying alternators
from a '91 rt/tt, first-gen dohc 3000gt, or a '93 sohc.
Thanks!
Kyle
Patton
'94 3000gt base
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:02:37
-0400
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: alternator removal
Jesse - The alternator is called a
"generator" in the manual AFAIK so don't look in
the index for something
called an "alternator." I just ordered an alternator for
my '95 VR-4
(~$70 from M&S Recycling with a lifetime warranty). Don't be fooled by
places selling these for close to $250-$300 for rebuilt ones.
-
--Flash!
Jesse Rink <
jrink-3si@wi.rr.com> scribbled this in
electronic crayon:
> Curious about this one...
>
> I've
found the removal instructions for the alternator on Jeff L's website,
>
but for the life of me, I can't find the same information in my 3/S
Backup
> CD Manual. What's odd, is that it looks like Jeff's site
uses diagrams from
> the manual, so why can't I find this in my
manual? Anyone one the page #'s
> I need to be looking for?
>
> I did find one thing in the manual referring to GROUP 16 for the
alternator,
> but again, I can't seem to find anything about GROUP 16 in
my Backup CD
> Manual. Any clue?
>
> Thanks
>
JRink
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:08:30
-0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: alternator compatibility?
A quick look on CAPS provides different
part numbers, so I'd guess the alternators are not interchangeable.
-
-----Original Message-----
From: kapatton
[mailto:kapatton@uclink.berkeley.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:38
AM
To:
Team3S@team3s.comSubject:
Team3S: alternator compatibility?
Hi,
Are alternators for the
3000gt and Stealth interchangeable with each other? Will alternators from
certain years not work with other years and/or models? I
need to replace the
alternator in my '94 base 3000gt, and have the option of
buying alternators
from a '91 rt/tt, first-gen dohc 3000gt, or a '93 sohc.
Thanks!
Kyle
Patton
'94 3000gt base
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
Above email is for intended recipient only and may be
confidential and protected by attorney/client privilege.
If you are not the
intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately.
Unauthorized use or
distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:39:27
-0400
From:
bryan.goldman@ps.ge.comSubject:
Team3S: Better Performance When Cold?
I have a 92 SOHC Stealth that has
better performance when it cooler outside.
I am wondering if there is a
sensor that could be going bad and the ECU
doesn't pick up on
it.
Bryan Goldman
92 SOHC
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:01:13
-0400
From: "Doug Gust" <
DGust@ashlowusa.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Performance
- Bryon - "Better performance when it cooler
outside"
All engines will perform best when cool air is injected.
I really
notice this most with the Harley.
I read that some teams at qualifying will
put ice water in the cooling
system
To get more horse power.
Best
regards,
Doug Gust
1991 ES
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:01:57
-0500
From: <
jrwooldr@rockwellcollins.com>
Subject:
Team3S: part number
Help!
Could someone look up the part number
for the "insulator" that goes between
the fuel injector and the intake
manifold for me?
I have a 92 3000GT SL although I think they are all the
same.
TIA
Jim W
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:07:21
-0700 (PDT)
From:
vr4glenn@newsguy.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: part number
It's all right here:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-injectors.htmand
be sure to thank Jeff ;-)
Glenn
At Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:01:57
-0500, you wrote
>Help!
>
>Could someone look up the part
number for the "insulator" that goes between
>the fuel injector and the
intake manifold for me?
>
>I have a 92 3000GT SL although I think
they are all the same.
>
>TIA
>
>Jim
W
>
>
>
>*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:21:28
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Transfer case not leaking ???
From: "Christian Longtin" <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
> I
went to pay a little visit to the Mitsubishi dealer that did my recall on
the
transfer case and to my surprise there was nothing left there
anymore,
because they closed down the dealer. They just told me that there
was no more
Mitsu and that I could go to another one about 30 more minutes
north. They
also fired the guy who was my contact there and that gave me my
recall
papers for the inspection. They were able to retrieve my
inspection report
and send it by fax, but I didn't see it yet. There's
another Mitsubishi dealer
at about 1 hour away that's across
the
border in Vermont (burlington) who as been in place for many years.
Or the
other one is about 1 hour away too but in Canada and I don't think
they know
much more about my car than the other idiots that did my recall.
What sould I
do now, What are my realistic option and most importantly with
Who should I
deal now ???
> Thanks
> Christian Longtin
> 92
3000gt vr-4
- --------------------------------
Contact *all* of them
and see who is *most* interested in working on your car
and honoring the
previous work order. Every dealership is required to do the
work, if
it's necessary under the recall. And don't forget -
Chrysler/Dodge
dealers do the recall work too. Don't limit yourself to
Mitsu dealers.
- ---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:56:25
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Confirmed wheels
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David
Friedlander" <
forzion@maine.rr.com>
>
Damien;
> Also, LOTS of places sell wheels. I bought the Fittipaldi Force
wheels with
a 38 mm offset and love 'em! Tirerack doesn't carry 'em
though.
> A sample view is at
http://www.wheelspecs.com/specs/wheelmodels/1105>
Dave Friedlander
> '94 SL
-
---------------------------->
Because they don't come in wider rim
sizes, these wheels limit your tire
choices. In 18", the widest tire
you can use (safely) is the stock size,
245/45ZR18, which is fine...
But you can't upgrade to any of the wider,
low-profile tire sizes
(255/40ZR18, 265/35ZR18...), since to do so would be
unsafe. You would
need a 9" to 9.5" rim to use those sizes safely. (You
should never
install a tire that is wider than ~20% larger than the width of
the
rim.)
Their 17"x8" wheels should *not* be used on our cars at all.
The widest tire
it can take is (maybe) a 225 series, which is almost 1"
*narrower* than stock.
If you just use your car to run around town, that's
OK, but I wouldn't run
such a small tire on the highway unless you stay right
at the speed limit (and
you pump them up to give you more support). If
you install a 245/45ZR17 tire
on it (if the installer will even do it for
you), you chance throwing a bead
and blowing out if you take it out on the
highway.
Please..., tell me that you're running the 18's with a stock
tire size (?)...
- ---Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:49:14
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: A different question on rotors
At 03:45 PM 10/22/2003 -0400,
Gene Calarco wrote:
>So after all the discussion on rotor technology we
are still back to square
>1. Science would tell us to use the 108.00
a piece stock Mitsu rotor from
>the dealer over the drilled and slotted HP
rotors for 180.00 a piece.
I buy my stock rotors from
mitsupartsdirect for $90 each, get them
cryogenically treated locally at
Cryogenic Engineering for $20 each, and
they never warp. A rotor lasts me at
least two sets of race pads (Carbotech
Panther Plus) and gawdonlyknows how
many street miles.
I buy a new set of front rotors once a season (for
racers, they are a wear
item). When I change pads, I may or may not take them
down for a cleanup
turn, depending on how much buildup they have (race pads
tend to deposit
great gobs of material on the rotors).
I consider my
stock, cryoed rotors to be the equivalent of Porterfield
rotors; therefore,
if you are not lucky enough to have a Cryogenic
Engineering in your home
town, you can buy Porterfields and get the same
results.
Rich/slow old
poop
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#282
***************************************