Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, October 7
2003 Volume 02 : Number 270
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The engine in my 91 vr-4 was just re-built 200 miles ago. The
rebuilt
engine lost oil pressure ( not totally ) and has lower end
knock. The
business who re-built the engine filled bankruptcy as soon
as my court case
against him went through. So now I'm stuck.
possible causes of failure... i don't really know... but I'm guessing
that
since i still show a hair of pressure it could be a clogged oil filter
or an
oil relief valve stuck open
( HOPEFULLY ! )
I'm thinking about running a compression test on the engine and if i can
get
good results, simply replacing the bearings on the rods / crank.
or trying to buy a front clip so i can get the tranny as well ( 1st
gear
synchro is going bad anyway )... I'm in the navy stationed out of
san Diego
so money is a lil tight... but i have a 2 car garage with nothing
in it but
an endless supply of tools.
so...
how much will a new engine, or maby just the block, cost me...?
and
where can I buy one...?
or
how much will a new set of bearings cost me...?
and can it be done
without pulling the engine out of the car...?
What ( realistically ) are my options...?
- -ryan-
91 VR-4 ( Benched )
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:44:25 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Stinky Stealth!
Greetings fellow 3S'ers -
I've noticed lately that my car is stinky, namely in the rear end.
haha..
well for real, my exhaust stinks badly of sulfur. It has been
like this for
some time, so I don't suspect a bad tank of gas or
similar.
Any ideas? I have my main cat...
Thanks
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
Go Hokies =)
------------------------------
Unbelievable! Someone has lots of spare time.
I am still having trouble
with my motor not shutting off after the antenna
is fully extended.
When it retracts everything works smoothly.
Anyone got any ideas!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:09:16 -0400
From: "The Furmans" <
L.Furman1@cox.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Bob, I read Jeef's reply's and he pretty much nailed it on the
head
about what to check. My only question to you is do you have
a
datalooger or know someone that can loan you one? A pocket
logger
would be prefferred since currently they updated the software
to
adequately support the 1G 3S's
I am looking at you dyno graph and neither looks very smooth
nevermind
the huge drop that occurs arround 5750 rpms on both of them.
I am
wondering if your lower roller mounts are allowing to much
movement
and under load you are ringing the block (my term for when the
roller
mount crosss pin smacks agianst the metal ring of the mount and
causes
false knock to appear, it basically rings the whole block like
you
smacked it with a 16oz hammer)
Bob looking at your second graph with the A/F you are good from
like
3500 on but below that I would try and fatten it up a bit. DO
you
happen to have the A/F graph for the 316WHP run?
Seperate to this whole thread what type of dyno were these runs
done
on? Dynojet, Mustang Brake Dyno, Dyno Dynamics???
Russ F
CT
DR-650's and Supporting mods
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:01:06 -0700
From: "Ann Koch" <
akoch@sonic.net>
Subject: Team3S:
carrier bearings
The carrier bearings, also called "drive shaft rubber," are failing on
my
'93 Stealth TT. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to
get
replacement bearings, besides Satan? I haven't tried the Good Guys
list
yet, preferring to see if any of you have had to do this
replacement. My
car has 150K miles on it. Also, for those of you
who have done this
repair--are there any tricks or pitfalls of which I should
be aware?
Thanks--Ann
------------------------------
I've had the same type of problem with my car. I also have the main cat
and
have had it checked. They said it wasn't bad so to try a general tune
up.
Just finished changing my plugs and wires and it still has the same
problem.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:58:50 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stinky Stealth!
Does anyone have any reason to believe Hess provides bad fuel? I use
them
religiously. Also, this is the cheapest cost gas station in this
area, so I
know that they sell large amounts of fuel and it should be very
fresh.
Also, it seems to stink no matter how I drive it - easy, hard,
combination,
hot, cold, etc etc.
Thanks!
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:31:06 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Stinky Stealth!
The stink is a result of the sulfur in the fuel --- try another supplier
and see
if it changes. The Cat seems to convert the sulfur to sulfur dioxide
[ rotten
egg smell ].
Jim Berry
------------------------------
> Also, this is the cheapest cost gas station in
> this area, so I
know that they sell large amounts
> of fuel and it should be very
fresh.
Why would the cheapest gas be the best quality? There are a number of
other factors to the quality of gas than just how long it sits in the storage
tank (sulphur/sulphate content being one of them).
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Am I the only person here who washes, cleans and polishes his car inside
and out every week? The car eats most or more of my cash, but damn they
look good don't they?
How does one recalibrate the speedo and odo gauges if larger wheels are
installed? Reccomendations? Opinions? I am thinking 18x8 or so, ADR
Kazai's?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:37:24 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
>> I talked to my tuner and he agrees with me that the #1
>>
thing I should check will be the BOV.
The bypass valve (aka BOV) is part of the intake system, which includes all
parts from the air filter to the intake manifold.
>> As soon as I can find the damned instructions,
>> I'm
going to tighten it up a scoche.
The Greddy BOV is adjusted using the cap head screw (3-mm hex key) on the
top. Loosen the 10-mm hex nut first and tighten it again when finished. This
adjustment changes the "tension" on the internal spring. I don't know if it can
actually be adjusted loose enough to let the BOV ease open during normal boost
(should have almost same pressure on both sides of the valve). Possible I guess.
The BOV normally should open only when there is vacuum on one side of the valve
(from the plenum) and pressure on the other side (from the y-pipe). The
adjustment should change the spring tension only for this later case.
I took the Greddy BOV off and am now using the factory BOV. I cannot tell a
performance difference at the boost levels I am running, 15.5 psi to redline
(15G turbos). I plan to fix the leaks in the factory BOV and see to what boost
level it can take me. On my list of projects is a BOV tester made in the same
spirit of my intake pressure tester (different parts, of course). Service
manual's test only checks to see at what vacuum/pressure differential the valve
opens. My tester would check for leaks when the valve is closed and in similar
conditions as when the engine has forced induction. The BOV would be off the
engine.
>> I'm going to take the car out and datalog it set right
>>
where it is, then tighten the BOV a bit and log it again ...
Are you datalogging boost? The latest TMO software allows this. Not sure if
other logger software has incorporated this feature.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:13:51 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
The Greddy BOV is no problem even on a very "ease" setting. And of course
it
must release the pressure during the shifts as you close the throttle
body
and it always opens when there there is a pressure difference from
infront
and after the throttle body. The stock BPV have a leak by design.
This makes
shifting easier as pressure is not blown off so quick. This is why
the stock
BOV is not recommend for pressures above stock as ite small hole
acts more
as a leak the higher the boost is set at.
The only draw-back of
the greddy is the damn shifter linkage interference on
the 2nd gens.
The Greddy BOV is adjusted using the cap head screw (3-mm hex key) on
the
top. Loosen the 10-mm hex nut first and tighten it again when finished.
This
adjustment changes the "tension" on the internal spring. I don't know if
it
can actually be adjusted loose enough to let the BOV ease open during
normal
boost (should have almost same pressure on both sides of the
valve).
Possible I guess. The BOV normally should open only when there is
vacuum on
one side of the valve (from the plenum) and pressure on the other
side (from
the y-pipe). The adjustment should change the spring tension only
for this
later case.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:55:35 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Hey, Roger,
Thanks for the incredible amount of information!!! Great stuff - this
is what
I need to know! Some comments to clarify:
1. I was late for the dyno session, and already commited to paying
for that
time slot, and I just plain forgot my computer to datalog the
results, like I
had done previously.
2. The multiple dyno runs were
to try to 'tweak' the SAFC-II for maximum
performance without knock, as
interpreted by a "master tuner". Many race
drivers, 3S, and DSM owners
respect his judgement, but I'll let the datalogger
determine just how 'good'
he is in the future.
3. When we last ran the dyno, we *did* datalog,
and his settings were
similar, and showed knock of <4 at all
settings. But that was the run when I
had a leak at the rear turbo and
the best number we saw was SAE 268hp *with* a
severe leak. So I'm
saying that these latest results, although not
datalogged, are consistent
with the previous dyno day, which we determined WAS
"safe". Obviously,
your interpretation makes *great* sense, and I'll take
that into account when
we dyno again (with datalogging).
4. There is NO such thing as 93
octane gas here. The very best gas you can
get is 91, although if I
want to drive 140 miles (round trip) I can get either
92 octane, OR 101 race
gas (at *double* the price per gallon!!!), or 110
*leaded* race
gas.
5. I have a 3" Borla exhaust, an high-flow racing cat, cat-back,
and DP (all
3"). My turbos are not 13g's - they are 13C's, and they are
clipped 5
degrees, instead of the typical 15 degree clip, for faster
responsiveness and
less turbo lag. They are rated somewhere just around
the GTPro 357, according
to the guy who makes *both* the GT357 and the
13C.
6. You've told me before that you didn't trust manual
BC's... Is your
current "best bang for the buck" choice the
AVC-R?
Thanks SO much!
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:20:00 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Now that would be a really cool project! I can't wait to see your
tester...
No, I'm only seeing the boost on the peak-hold boost gauge. My TMO
software
doeasn't have boost as a parameter, I don't think... I'm using
v.1.16.02, and
I'm logging Air Temp, Coolant Temp, EGR Temp, Engine Speed,
Trim hi-lo-mid,
IPW, Knock Sum, O2 sens, TPS and Timing Advance.
The alarm on the boost gauge is at 1 bar and it's never gone off - the
max
I've ever seen is .9 (14psi). The peak on that particular dyno run
was .6
(9psi) but it was closer to .5 (8psi) for most of the run.
Thanks for the ongoing help - I need all the input I can get!
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:27:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Buy yourself some 5gal cans of race gas for things like this..
But..you should be tuning for the street first, then spend dyno time
on
high boost. Dont do both in one day..concentrate on one at a
time.
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:35:38 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 3S-Racers:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Plus a couple of cans of Zylene can compensate for lack of race
gas.
Properly mixed you should be able to define the octane rating you want
to
achieve so you can simulate your race setup.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:22:28 -0700
From: "GLEN Anderson, Sr." <
gla45@msn.com>
Subject: Team3S: 91 Stealth
R/T - Backup Lights
Would someone tell me where the switch for the backup lights is, and can it
be adjusted. My backup lights are intermittent when I shift to reverse.
Thanks in advance.
Glen Anderson
1991 Stealth R/T
Portland, OR
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:45:05 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
The datalogger version does not have "real" boost logging but it is able to
read another voltage input on a "spare" signal that is not used. Using a 3
bar (max 2 bar of boost... I guess it's enough) pressure sensor (i.e. the
AC Delco I use is around $60 and is made by motorola) delivers a linear
signal that can be logged. Voilą :-) Needless to say, that boost should be
measured in the intake plenum after the throttle body. Mayn make the
mistake and measure it in the ypipe.
Maybe something for the FAQ ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 12:18:25 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Hehe, I knew that there must have been done something to the turbos
;-)
Regarding the runs, it is very critical how well the airflow has been
simulated. Hot intake temperature and low intercooling increases the danger
for knock and .. .well I learned my lesson well. Today we use a dyno with a
huge fan sucking air from the outside and blows it through variable
channels to the intercoolers and radiator.
Gas quality seems to suck in Cali :-( We now can get 100 octane as a high
premium gas at the pump stations from Shell. We do have 95, 98 and 100 now,
but the octane rating is not the same like in the US (95 is a lill less
than 93 in the US).
Regarding the boost controller, I'd get an older Blitz DSBC as it will be
the best bang for the buck. It's the same I'm using in the red one and more
is not really needed. You should be able to get used ones that are still in
a good condition or you find it in shops as they were never sold out. Just
don't use the Street Spec or SSBC or Spec S Type, the valve they use is
just too small. When you want to go with the Apexi then be prepared to
study the thing for the next weeks. But it will fit the S-AFC of course.
Otherwise my first choive would be the all new HKS, but it's
expensive.
BTW, you have larger injectors installed as you ran above 1 bars of boost,
do you ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:43:43 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
That's a great thing to add to the FAQ, but I need a bit more info
about
*where* the sensor should be mounted in the intake plenum. Is
there a place
for it? Does it have to be drilled? How does the
signal get to the dataport?
Or does it get spliced directly into the serial
port cable? Send us the info,
photo... Voici. ;-)
Merci bien,
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:23:05 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Well, usually there is too much attached to the vacuum port where we
measure boost. So tapping the plenum like Jeff shows in a pic is always a
good idea. Also the vacuum port for the clutch may be a helpful thing as
there could be a distributor block attached.
The signal goes to a port of the ECU, I have to find out by digging into my
archives as I don't have it in mind right now. Maybe Jeff has it somewhere
on his pages, not sure. The idea comes from the DSM guys anyways who wanted
to log boost too.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:03:50 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
Bob,
You need TMO version 1.16.03 and you use the EGR temp plug/wires. Your Cali
car probably has this hooked up. Our '91-'93 Fed cars do not. Not sure if your
ECU will throw a code or misbehave if the input changes. The service manuals may
give a clue.
The GM sensor is described by ERL on the web page below and is widely
available. You'll need a harness connector to wire it in easily - available at
many auto stores (might need a little trimming with a knife).
You just need to connect the GM sensor to a 5-volt source (such as the
power wire to the TPS from the ECU, pin 1 on the TPS connector, pin 61 on the
'91-'93 ECU), and tap into the FPR hose on the plenum. Ground and signal wires
go to pins 1 and 2 respectively in the EGR temp connector.
As Roger implied, any 0-5V output type device can be used. It does not have
to be a pressure sensor (such as a GM MAP sensor).
Here is Todd Day's (Mr. TMO) post from 3 years ago.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Day
[mailto:today@tmo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 2:20 PM
To: TMO
Datalogger Users List
Subject: TMO-DLOG: NEW SOFTWARE: version 1.16.03
(unofficial)
For those of you that want to test using the EGR input to log boost -
this
version is for you. For all others, there is nothing else new in
this
revision, so you probably don't want to bother with upgrading.
To change what the EGR input does, go to the data
collection
screen. Select Menu/EGR Input. You will see the
following parameters.
Name
Offset
Slope
Units
Precision
Minimum
Maximum
Name should be obvious. Slope is basically the range of your data
divided
by 5V. Offset is added to the data *after* the slope has been
taken into
account. Units can be any string, although I recommend it
be
small. Precision is the amount of decimal places that should be
printed in
dialog boxes (unused at this point). Minimum and
Maximum define the top
and bottom of the associated graph.
Example: I have a 45psi MAP sensor that ranges from 0 to 5V that I
want to hook up. 45psi MAP sensors typically range from -15psi to
30psi.
Name = Boost
Offset = -15
Slope = 9 (which is
45psi/5volts)
Units = psi
Precision = 1
Minimum = -15
Maximum =
30 (note that this is only for graph purposes and I could have
set this
to 25psi if I felt like it)
CAUTION! Do *NOT* hook any device to the EGR input that could
possibly
output a value outside the range of 0V to 5V. You have the
possibility of
*FRYING* the microprocessor!
NOTE! If you change the EGR information *after* already doing
a
Data/Select, you must run the Data/Select dialog box again if only to
just
hit the OK button. This forces a resynchronization of internal
data that I
did not forsee changing when I wrote the code initially. I
may or may not
get this part fixed before I officially release this
version.
Oh, to install this version, simply copy the EXE file attached to this
note
into Program Files/TechnoMotive, right over the top of 1.16.02. If
you are
doing this on a fresh machine, make sure you run the official
installer for
a 1.16 version, then do the copy above. I will release a
full Setup.EXE
version of the file after it has been verified that this stuff
actually works.
Have fun!
- -todd-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:58:24 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Puzzling dyno results... Analysis needed.
> That's a great thing to add to the FAQ, but I need a bit more
>
info about *where* the sensor should be mounted in the intake
>
plenum. Is there a place for it? Does it have to be drilled?
>
How does the signal get to the dataport? Or does it get spliced
> directly
into the serial port cable?
The 3-bar MAP sensor I used is a GM part, available from any dealer:
- -----------------------------------------------
Category: Computer
Control Sensors
GM Part #: 16040749
Description: SENSOR AS
Min.Qty:
1
Unit Price: $46.74
-
-----------------------------------------------
I got mine from
www.gmpartsdirect.com It's a
little black box, a little larger than a credit card, and about 1/2"
thick. It has a vacuum nipple on one side (6mm hose works ok) and I
strapped it to the injector resistor bracket (silver thing on the firewall
between the wiper motor and the various solenoids behind the throttle body) with
zip ties.
As for the vacuum hose, I didn't want to split up the FPR vacuum hose too
much, so I ended up doing something similar to what Jeff L. did. I didn't
drill any holes, because I didn't want to take off my plenum. I combined
my brake and clutch booster hoses, so that they only use the clutch hose port on
the plenum. This leaves a huge nipple (OEM brake booster connection)
unused on the back of the plenum. I attached all my boost-related stuff to
that port, and now the only thing connected to my FPR vacuum line is the
FPR.
For the electrical connections, my MF2 WI controller has power, ground, and
signal connections for the map sensor, so that's what I used. I don't
believe you have that on your car, so the TPS connections sound like a better
idea.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#270
***************************************
