Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, September 26 2003 Volume
02 : Number 264
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:51:19 -0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:Sue
the bastards revisited
So, if I say I just raced to the corner against somebody, I trip and
fall,
break my leg, does that mean my insurance company can deny payment
because I
was in a "race" and it's my fault I didn't get a special insurance
rider for
a competetive event, even though it WASN'T real competition?
Don't give the
bastard insurance companies ideas.
Driver school
events even specifically stipulate IN WRITING that it is a
"non-speed event"
or not timed, NOT a race. What part of NOT A RACE, IN
WRITING don't
they understand?
So, does that mean Mitsubishi has a spy flunky standing there who
instantly
declares the warranty's VOID on ALL Mitsubishi vehicles tested by
magazines
for maximum accleration with clutch riding/dumping; handling on
roadcourse
(LOOK at all the EVO tests, and ADVERTISING!), braking until they
can find
overheating?
So, does that mean Mitsubishi is itself negligent for ALLOWING the
throttle
to go to the floor, the brakes to be able to stop the car so fast,
the
suspension designed to handle well, then Mitsu BRAGS about all
these
features?
If they didn't want the throttle to go to the floor,
they shouldn't have
designed it to DO that. Their advertising had
horsepower, acceleration,
braking and performance SPECIFICALLY
highlighted. Was this some sort of
deceitful
bait-and-switch? Draw buyers in with claims of high
performance
braking, handling, acceleration, all-wheel steering, limited
slip
differentials etc...but when people actually USE the vehicle AS DESIGNED
and
ADVERTISED, in a specifically NON-competetive driver school
event,
Mitsubishi YANKS WARRANTEES, and claim it is ACTUALLY Grampa's "cruise
to
the Bingo parlor in style"-mobile?
Remember all those MITSUBISHI 3000GT ADS, such as:
"Mitsubishi
Luxury...you can take it to the Ritz (Diamante)...You can take
it to Baja
(Montero)...Or you can take it up to 159 mph (3000GT)"
The jet airplane comparison; I think there was one showing an AWD
burnout,
the 4 wheel skids "on a closed course only for safety"...these are
the
examples THEY SET in THEIR ADS.
We too SPECIFICALLY followed Mitsubishi's ad examples, ON CLOSED COURSES
FOR
SAFETY.
Was that false advertising? Mitsubishi can do it and
lure customers with
it, but then TURN on anyone who dares DO just what their
ads SHOWED?
Bait and switch. False advertising. Predatory
marketing practices.
Not all businesses or business people suck, but boy more and more seem
to...
No matter what, if it leaked so soon after the
Mitsubishi-sponsored
replacement installation, and you documented complaining
about it leaking,
that is their responsibility--they never fixed it right in
the first place.
That is basic. The truth shall set you Free.
This is NOT a family sedan,
it is a GT car advertised specifically on high
performance driving,
handling, accelerating. They can't deny it, they
have 9 years of 3000GT ads
DOCUMENTING what "features" they touted in order
to sell them to us.
Good luck Rich.
------------------------------
Hey everyone,
I got two questions on the front bumper.
1) How hard is it to change those front reflectors near the flip up
lights?
(would I have to remove the bumper)
2) How hard is it to change the bumper cover it self? (has anyone made
a
page yet?)
Thanks again.
- --- Marven Lamarre
- --- '92 Dodge Stealth
- --- K&N Air
Filter
- --- Front & Rear Strut Bar
- --- Hose Techniques SVH
- ---
Supercharged for your convenience
- --- "Bring Truth To Impossiblity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:26 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
Sue the bastards revisited
I might also add to everyone else's comments that a website
posting
times is hardly conclusive evidence of a vehicle being
"abused". I can
find dozens of teen-hormone rice burner sites showing
flashy Hondas with
stick-on body mods and coffee-can tailpipes claiming
outrageous 1/4 mile
times their cars cannot achieve if jet-powered.
Posting it on a website
does not make it true.
The only "conclusive" evidence you could have on your website would be
a
video clearly showing the car pushed beyond the "acceptable"
limits,
followed by an extreme close-up of your VIN dash badge. Prove
to me
otherwise that the car you are driving on the track is the same one
with
the leaky transmission.
I will not have to worry about any of this as I build my own
cars...
nobody to sue over warranty but myself. Hehe... maybe one of
these days
before winter snow I'll be feeling well enough to finish the
blasted
thing and join you for a little vehicular abuse.
Nick McDermott
93 VR-4 (Car's not done because I was busy getting a
valve-job done on
ME!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:05:43 -0500
From: "Nick Altieri" <
altieris@tulsaconnect.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
Rich, Chuck, everyone,
Take it from someone who works
for a lawyer- read your warranty,
expecially the exclusions, cover to cover-
take note of the specific words
that are used in their exclusions and the
context in which they are used...
Good luck,
Nick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:32:06 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re:Sue the bastards revisited
Let me elaborate a little on what I meant by yesterday's post about this
being a bad faith denial of a warranty claim. See, in the legal world, we
have this little concept called causation. Causation works both ways--in
other words, the plaintiff must prove that a certain element or damage was
CAUSED by an act or omission of the Defendant. The defendant, on the other
hand, can defend on the basis that the injury or damage was not caused by
his/her/its act or omission, but rather was caused by the act or omission of
some other over whom the defendant maintains no responsibility or control.
That's called an "affirmative defense," because the defendant bears the burden
of proof.
I know this isn't a "Law 101" list, but let's think about this for a
second. On Day 1, Merritt comes forth with a leaky tranny. Mistu
attempts to fix it UNDER WARRANTY. (i.e., when Mitsu first placed its dirty
little hands on the tranny, they didn't raise the "you race the thing"
defense. They fixed it, so to speak). After a year of haggling and
attempts and fixing it, the very same condition exists that existed on Day
one--the friggin thing leaks. And low and belhold, the tranny then locks
up because of the very same leak that existed on Day 1.
Now enter Mitsu a year later--we won't fix it because you're website posts
race stats. Ask yourself this question--what changed between day 1 (when
Mistu accepted the warranty repair, but couldn't fix it), and day 365?
Nothing. Nada.
So, to bring this to a conclusion, assuming for the sake of argument that
Merrit races his car, the fact is that such racing did not CAUSE his tranny to
leak and lock up. If this was the case, Mistu would have raised the
defense on Day 1 and denied Merrit's claim at the outset, and not days, weeks,
MONTHS later when Mistu determined that it's quick fix wouldn't solve Merrit's
problem. So, denying Merrit's claim on the basis that Mitsu chose is bad
faith, and breaches the covenant of good faith and fair dealing that, in many
states, is implied in every contract.
Now for the disclaimed--nothing in this post is intended to constitute
legal advice. Merrit should talk to a lawyer that is licensed to practice
in Iowa. With that said, go get 'em Merritt.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:55:13 -0400
From: James Matherly <
jemather@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S:
RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
This is not the first instance I've heard of this. I'm friends with
one of the showroom guys that works at the Mitsu dealer near me, and he
said that one of the guys who got an Evo from them managed to burn out
his clutch in something like 6,000 mi he was driving it so hard. He
got it replaced under warranty, and he talked about this in some forums
online. Somebody from Mitsu read it, found out that he'd been
"racing," and made some note in his warranty contract to deny further
warranty claims. FYI.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:59:17 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
Unfortunately, two good friends of mine, both with EVO's have
already
taken out their clutches... 2200 miles on one, 2800
miles on the
other. Both were raced, abused, etc. Neither were
abused to the point
of failing in 2800 miles or less.
Mitsubishi put in a crap clutch...
I have put both my cars through much more abuse over a longer period
of
time than is possible in 2200 miles. One owner, he had two track
days
(At the drag strip) One day he made 3 passes, the other day maybe
10.
He was pulling some good times, but he wasn't abusing it that bad,
1.9
60's... Luckily for him, no one has called him out on the fact he
was
racing it, but Mitsu did replace the tranny under warranty. All we
did
was put the stock boost controller back...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:13:06 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <
gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
The problem follows no pattern that is why I have had such a hard
time
pinpointing the source. It will on some days (moon and stars are
in he
correct orbit), run quasi-normal, no misfire that I can feel and other
days
do what you described and miss thought-out the entire RPM range even
while
in neutral, increasing RPMs slowly not under load (except over 5,000
RPM
??). It is most annoying when I'm passing a crater-crawler with
400HP that
steps on it and thinks they are going to suck me up their tail
pipe ;-(. I
think that Jeff is correct in his step by step
wiring/ignition suggestion,
Jim is also suggesting a possible grounding
problem at the PTU. With any
luck on Sunday I'll have some time
to get into it and pull the ECM out. I
know what you mean about mechanics I
had one tell me to look at my
transmission cause he could not find the
problem in the engine with a code
scanner. That was a bad misfire day when I
took it to that guy, it was
probably bucking like a bronco). Today it's
running sort of normal, very
little stumble but still there, higher
barometric pressure rain forecasted
in my area.
Eugene
92' DOHC NT
I've been having a similar problem with my 91 RT TT. I've changed out
the
plugs, wires, PTU, and coil and still have the same problem. I've talked
to
one mechanic who thought it might be the crank angle sensor, but I have
not
changed it out as that costs about $350. How bad does your car misfire?
My
stutters all the way up through the RPM range. Let me know what you find
out
and I'll do the same.
Brad
------------------------------
Thanks, Joe.
Man, I wish you lived closer. I'd retain you in a New York
minute.
Are you a tort lawyer? Can we file a class action on these
crappy
transmissions?
Rich
------------------------------
I never got a copy of the warranty when Mitsu installed the new
transmission.
They just said, "It's warranteed for 12 months."
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:46:08 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
This is way too familiar. I've been through it a number of times
with both my
Stealth NT and my VR-4 - it was a simple matter of having gone
to the wrong
gas station. As soon as I fill up with good 91-92 octane
premium gas, the
problem goes away. Try going to an expensive gas
station that you *know* who
sells premium that is really premium, or to a
station in a pricey area of town
where lots of high-performance cars gas
up. I've been amazed at the number of
stations who sell 87 octane out
of a 91-octane pump. Our cars sputter with
87 - even the
non-turbos. If I don't know a station, I usually put in less
than a
full tank, since I've had it happen so many times. If you've got a
full
tank of unknown gas and your engine is 'missing', throw in an
octane
booster. If the car starts running right, it ain't the moon and
stars -
you're just stuck with 87. HTH...
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:50:31 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <
gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
Bob, funny that you mention that, I noticed the problem got
much worse
over the weekend. I went on a trip upstate and was running
mostly normal
very little misfire, hesitation, and I filled up from a shell
station on my
way home in a town that I usually don't go
through. The problem began to
get worse almost
instantaneously. I usually get gas at the expensive shell
station near
where I live however was running low on fuel on my way home
from the
trip. What octane boost do you recommend? I'll try anything
at
this point and still plan to check out the ignition system Sunday.
Eugene
92' DOHC NT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:12:07 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
Lot's of low volume stations let their tanks get low for long periods
of
time that allows too much moister laden air in the tank. Since gas
is
hydroscopic it sucks water out of the air into the fuel. once water
gets
into gas all kinds of undesirable things start happening like sulfuric
acid
build up & other ingredients start dropping out of suspension
ect....
Let alone just the water itself.
Pete Rivenburg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:21:33 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Intermittent Misfire of cylinder 1-4
Hey, Gene,
Any octane booster product with a well-known name will
do. They all work.
And that's just a temp fix until you can gas up with
the real deal. Every 3S
car (TT or NT) runs best with 91-92
octane.
Best,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Margrave <
davidma@eskimo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
xfer case recall
Folks,
I was too busy to get to the xfer case recall for awhile. Chrysler
kept
reminding me on a regular basis, so I took it to the dealer today.
I
thought they'd just dump my fresh redline fluid and refill it. But
they
called and said they took it apart and found a chipped gear tooth, so
I'm
getting a free new xfer case. I'll be without the car for a
few days,
but hopefully this will also fix the driveline 'thud' on
clutch
disengagement that I had been noticing. The svc manager I talked
to said
he had only seen only one other replacement required.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:51 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject:
Team3S: What do you think of this company's brake kits?
They want me to be a test fit subject for a future brake kit for our
cars.
I've been talking with a few DSM owners who have these kits, and so
far
everyone likes them. I know brakes are a "heated" discussion on
this list,
not trying to start another brake war.
Reading through the FAQ on the page as well as some other parts, it
looks
like this company is trying to make good products, and NOT BSing with
cross
drilled and slotted fancy crap. I'm really outta my league with
mechanics,
but I've been trying to do a lot of research on brakes. It
looks to me like
this system is good. I especially like the Aluminum
Hats they provide on
their rotors.
Just wanting feedback from the "Experts" if I should take some time and
let
them tinker with my car with these kits they offer. I have all
stock
components currently and don't want to take a "step back" from what I
got
now.
Thanks,
- -Erik
'94 R/T
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:08:42 -0400
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: What do you think of this company's brake kits?
Tell them if they can't run a spellcheck on their webpage then how do you
know they'll
fit the brackets together properly - maybe get $100 off the kit
by fixing their typo.
=)
"Expected by mid August all of these kits should be available soon and be
priced in
the currnent price range of other comparable kits."
I'd say go for the test fit if you can as this is a rare
opportunity. You really have
to make sure they know it is a 4,000
pound car capable of speeds of 140 mph on road
courses. We already max
out some of the best brake kits available (Big Red, Big
Black, Ferrari F-40,
Ferrari F-50, etc.) but if they are willing then by all means go
for
it.
- --Flash!
'95 VR-4 with Big Reds
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:57:56 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: What do you think of this company's brake kits?
heck dude it might be a winner as all the (good) designers i know tend
to
worry less about spelling bees/spellcheck than the
salesperson/webmaster
rank and file. ;)
regards,
terry (GO JPM!!!!)
"If it doesnt make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
To anyone who can offer advice,
I recently exited my car from a trip and discovered that one side of my
car
was now painted in black and not red. After scratching my head for
a
moment, it was apparant that my oil cooler or the lines blew a huge
leak.
So bad, that basically you can't get oil in it as fast as it loses it.
I
will likelyl have to tow it.
I am looking for anyone who has experience with this. After one of
my
dealer visits, they had informed me that the lines could use replacing
and
probably the entire oil cooler. Turns out they were right, mind you
a year
and a half later.
I have a ton of questions before I would like to perform this fix. Is
this
common, will the lines just need replacing or is likely the oil
cooler
itself? With a few tools and limited mechanical aptitude, is it
something I
could do myself. What labour time am I looking at.
And most importantly,
is a used one a safe bet and does anyone know where I'd
get my hands on a
decently priced unit without going to the stealer and
paying $1,000. I
guess last but not least should I be looking at any
upgrades or different
parts while I'm at it down there?
Thanks in advance,
Shannon
92 Stealth TT
K&N FIPK
------------------------------
A company's web page and printed materials are its public image. In
many
cases, that's the only thing a potential customer has on which to judge
the
quality of a company's products, engineering, documentation, support,
and
so on. If he sees misspellings, bad punctuation, bad grammar, and
overall
sloppiness in the graphics and presentation, he can most properly
assume
that the company's engineering and quality are equally slovenly.
This is basic Marketing 101.
It's no accident that the web page for a company like Stillen has
superb
graphics and more or less good grammar. They probably have somebody
on
staff who has even taken Marketing 102.
I agree that most good designers and engineers are borderline
illiterate
(except for those on this forum), and should not be allowed to go
anywhere
near the company web site or documentation. However, SOMEBODY should
be
assigned the responsibility for making sure yer stuff looks good. The
very
survival of the company may depend on it.
Rich/usta do that crap for a living
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:42:30 -0700
From: "Erik Petterson" <
erik@microworks.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: What do you think of this company's brake kits?
Ok guys, getting a little off the mark here. Might I remind you that
some
of the worst offenders of spelling mistakes & improper grammar are
people on
this list... Does that mean the technical content of their
email isn't as
valid?
Are there certain things I should look for, or ask him about the
kits? I
really want to contribute to this project as it will hopefully
benefit all
of us in the future. This guy is really set on making the
kit available to
the 3/S community.
- -Erik
'94 R/T
------------------------------
The cooler is likely to be good since I think it is either aluminum or
brass. Get used but not rusted oil cooler lines only from someone who is
parting their car or from a MS Recycling (a junkyard). I paid $25 for
mine.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:18:16 -0500
From: "xwing" <
xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
What do you think of this company's brake kits?
Wilwood calipers are ok to fine; brake kits made from their (huge) parts
bin
can be ok to great too; depends on WHAT they make, how WELL they
make
it/fabricate, how much it costs, and how well they support it
afterward.
There really isn't anything much to judge yet so...?? I hope
they make a
front and back kit that is NOT good (there are PLENTY of GOOD
front kits for
our cars already...join the crowd) but GREAT, FRONT AND BACK
(there are NO
great rear upgrades for our cars except ?unobtaniuMovit
ones in Europe
maybe)...my money is still on Phil Glazatov for a great rear
upgrade. 13"
long curved vane vented REAR discs with aluminum hats on
stock rear calipers
(which hardly use ANY pad up anyway so bigger
caliper/pads probably not
necessary, and stockers RETAIN the parking brake
which I need) sound GREAT
to me!! Hurry, Phil! Hope to see the
setup at Road America October 18th!
Erik, I think there is a skeptical side to many of us who have
repeatedly
seen VERY well intentioned young companies talk a good game and be
all
"puppy enthusiastic" but then you never hear anything about it ever again
or
never make REAL product, or they come out with caca (?sp)...and there
ARE
some good and great front kits ALREADY out...so enthusiasm for a "brake
kit
project" is not as fast in showing as it might otherwise be. No
offense is
meant I'm sure by most of us! I've just been super
enthusiastic about so
many car things over the years only to get burned in
the end that "super
enthusiasm" needs more than a claim that some company is
thinking about
making us something good. Remember the 3SI.org website's
guy who was all
about Tremec Mexico, stories about bigger stronger trannies
coming soon that
then devolved into "well, we'll START with stronger xfer
cases" (about 100
times easier to design than a tranny) and as of now...NO
PRODUCT has EVER
come out from them. That guy SURE was enthusiastic in
the beginning
though...I STILL would love a great superstrong NEW design
Tremec tranny for
our AWD cars but...my enthusiasm has drained and burned out
:(
Hope this new brake deal turns out GREAT! Hope it is Not Super
Expensive!
Keep us updated! Thanks. The community NEEDS people
who have enthusiasm in
various areas and who take up the gauntlet to chase
these things...for some
it is brakes, for others suspension, others do
engines....between us all,
our cars have WAAAAAAAAY better stuff now than 5
years ago. Don't let
others throw cold water on ya, but remember when
dealing with car industry
companies "Trust, but Verify" :)
Keep up the good work, Keep the faith!
Jack T.
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#264
***************************************