Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, September 25 2003 Volume 02 : Number 263
 
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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:20:36 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: worthwhile find
 
Grassroots Motorsports magazine mentioned a product on page 72 of
their November issue ---- It's a camber bolt or crash bolt that allows you
to exceed the camber limits imposed by the stock camber bolts. The intent
was to allow additional camber by using a thinner eccentric bolt. Used
primarily by body shops, it allows for additional adjustability after an
accident altered the suspension geometry. Not sure where to find one but
the article said the one they used was supplied by the car manufacturer.
They went on to say since it was a stock part it could be used in compitition
to get 2.5 degrees of camber on stock suspension. A good suspension shop
or body shop should have access to such an item.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:51:05 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: worthwhile find
 
I remember Forrest used bolts like these with his JIC's. IIRC, the tires
were rubbing against the spring perches and the shop decided that it was a
good way to fix the issue without having to install wheel spacers.
 
BTW, Supercar Engineering has 3/S (and probably DSM too) wheel spacers for
sale in thicknesses of 3 mm (0.125") and 5 mm (0.1875") for $35 per pair
shipped, but I probably cannot advertise them because I already announced
the price on two of my other products this week. Anyway, I have them if
someone needs them.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:39:35 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
 
I have been chasing a problem with my 92' DOHC non-turbo for 2 months now.
It started with a CE code of 45 and led me to the power transistor module,
which I replaced cleared the code and I was up and running.  Sense then I
have had a performance issue with acceleration and was told by the dealer
that my cylinder's 1-4 are cutting in and out.  They did not have time to
finish troubleshooting that day and asked me to leave it, couldn't.  I took
it to my local motor sports shop, his tech could not figure out the problem
but was pointing me to the trans.
 
During my troubleshooting the CEC 45 I swapped out coil 1 with coil 2 and
the problem still existed pointing me to the power transistor.  Could this
still be a bad coil causing the problem? or would my TCS cause cutout of
1-4?  I replace the plug wires and plugs with stock Mits wires and NGK plugs
problem still exists and seems to be getting worse. Is there a way to test
my coil pack using voltmeter?
 
Eugene
92' DOHC NT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:06:53 -0400
From: "Bob G" <Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Which Amsoil Product?
 
Some time ago, someone from the list posted extensive info about Amsoil.
I'm thinking of making the switch (last ditch effort to make the dreaded
tick go away), but, for a car with 133K on the clock, I don't know which of
Amsoil's many choices would be best.
 
Any help here?
 
Bob Guirlinger
92 VR-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:16:19 -0400
From: Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which Amsoil Product?
 
Bob - 'Twas probably me as I'm a licensed Amsoil retailer.  I used it to get rid of
the "lifter tick" and for the last 40k miles it has done that.
 
www.team3s.com/~dschilberg/Amsoil
 
- --Flash!
'95 VR-4 with Amsoil
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:58:19 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
 
The design of our ignition system is straightforward and well documented.
 
Sensors->ECU->PTU->Coils->Wires->Plugs
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ignitionsystem.htm
 
You should have eliminated plugs and wires as a cause by installing new ones correctly (and being sure there is no grounding through the insulation occuring - observe engine in the dark, maybe with a bit of water mist). Swapping individual coils seems to rule out the coil if the symptom did not follow the coil (what about the wiring under the coils and the connector? Again, can observe for shorting at night). The PTU is new and so probably not to blame. The sensors are probably not a cause of your type of problem.
 
That leaves the following.
- - ECU (this can be inspected for failed capacitors)
- - wiring harness (you will have to inspect *each* related section - leave no continuity unchecked; wiggle wires, connections etc.)
 
ECU R&R and inspection:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ecmremoval.htm
 
Coil R&R and inspection:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ignitioncoils.htm
 
PTU R&R and inspection:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-pwrtransunit.htm
 
Ignition wires info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-msd-ignwires.htm
 
Spark plug info:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm
 
Additional info in the service manuals.
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:58:48 -0500
From: "purdaddy" <purdaddy@associatedsys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which Amsoil Product?
 
You know, my simply switching to 10W-30 from 5W-30 of Mobil 1 seemed to
drastically reduce the "tick".  (
I'm using a Purolator PureOne filter).  Just other helpful notes, but I
will be switching to AmsOil next change.
 
        -Patrick
 
- -"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting
different results."
 
Patrick Purviance
'94 Dodge Stealth R/T TT, Dark Green/Blk Leather
Open Air Filter, 1g DSM BOV, ProBoost MCB, Blitz DATT, Indiglo Gauges
(even the center ones)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:13:51 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Camber adjustment bolts, wheel spacers (was: worthwhile find)
 
Good memory!  ;-)  With those bolts, it was just enough to get clearance so
they wouldn't rub on the tires.  I still didn't have room to put in any
reasonable negative camber, so we were forced to settle for -0.6 on both
sides.  My suspension supertuners, Custom Alignment in Mountainview, had seen
this before and had the bolts in stock.  But I still needed to put in 5mm
spacers before I could play with the camber and get my preferred settings
of -1.5 or -2.0 (depending on the track).  Tires were 255/40 Toyo Proxes RA-1
on stock 17" rims.  I'm guessing that it would be less of a problem with
245/45ZR17 tires...
 

When you put in 5mm spacers, you really need to have longer studs installed in
your hubs in order to be 'legal' at many tracks.  I don't remember the exact
formula, but you need something like either 7 threads or 7mm-worth of threads
visible.  When I first put in 5mm spacers, no thread was visible, and I ended
up losing 2 lugnuts (on the road, not the track).  The spacers are tough, but
they will flex a bit in time, so be sure to retorque your lugnuts a few times
when you install spacers.  Like racer Al Butterfield always says, "The only
thing worse than being passed on the track is when you see one of your own
WHEELS pass you!"  ;-)
 
Admin Note to PVG, and others:  Although we prefer if vendors only post sale
items once weekly, if there is a *related* item available because of member
need, as part of a list discussion, feel free to post the availability of that
item immediately - even in the same week.  Our rule to "post sale items no
more than once per week" is in place simply to prevent bombardment of the
members by repeat *random* advertising, and is not intended to limit
member/vendors who may be able to help other members out.  But thanks for
caring, Philip!
 
- ---Forrest
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:37:48 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Intermintant Missfire of cylinder 1-4
 
Thank you for the fantastic amount of information.  I will start with the
wiring on the coils as I have replaced the wires and plugs with new factory
wires and oem NGK's.   I did clean the wires at the bottom of each coil when
I did the swap of coil 1 with coil2.  At that time when I said the problem
did not seem to follow coil I meant I still had a CEC of 45 pointing me to
the PTU 1-4.  I just presumed the coil was good and the PTU bad and when the
code did not return after replacing the PTU...I thought 'good to go'  I will
begin testing voltage at the coil as you suggested then work my way to the
ECU.
 
Eugene
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:39:26 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Sue the bastards revisited
 
WARNING WILL ROBINSON!!
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING!!
 
Just got an official reply to my nice little letter to the president of
Mitsubishi, asking him to honor my warranty claim.
 
Here's part of the letter from the customer connections manager:
 
"It is our determination that the damage done to your vehicle was directly
related to the use of your vehicle for racing. Your website posts times,
location, and duration of contests."*
 
I never told them I had a website, so this confirms all the rumors we've
been hearing that Mitsubishi monitors our activities, at tracks and on the
Web.
 
My advice to all of you is:
 
1.  Do not ever buy a new car with a Mitsubishi warranty. If you want an
Evo or a Lancer or whatever, buy it used from a General Motors dealer, and
then purchase the GM aftermarket warranty. GM's warranty is the best in the
business.
 
2.  If you road race, drag race, autocross, or indulge in any other
motorsport, be aware that Mitsubishi observes some of these events in
person, and notes what Mitsu vehicles are competing.
 
3. If you communicate on our discussion groups, better get an alias. Big
Brother is watching this forum and all other lists. They identify us by
name, car, etc., and use the information to deny warranty claims. Rumors
have been flying that they deny ALL claims, not just on equipment that
could possibly be damaged by racing. 
 
*4. Never buy a Mitsubishi replacement transmission. Mine leaked from the
day they put it in, and they refused to do anything about it (which was the
basis of my warranty claim). Buy it from somebody else, like Kormex.
Although Mitsu is claiming racing damaged the transmission, it leaked from
day one.
 
It appears that Mitsubishi is determined to take the low road when it comes
to supporting their cars in competition. If you want to buy a car to
compete with, I suggest you purchase a BMW, Porsche, or Corvette, from
companies that are proud to see their cars competing.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:03 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
Rich,
 
Do not give up.  This is just the first volley in the battle. Their determination is inaccurate.  Tell them that.  My understanding is that you do not do "racing", that is, your driver education experiences are not of a competitive nature, no places or prizes are awarded, else you would need a racing license and race insurance. Second, your transmission leaked from the day it was installed, as you have well documented. Unless the serviceman "raced" from the service bay to the customer pickup area, the transmission replacement was faulty.
 
If they can discourage you with this sort of letter, they win.  If you are persistent, they will have to face the truth.  Don't give up.
 
Chuck
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
100% correct.
 
Youre tranny is already out and replaced, you have lost all there si to
lose so far.
 
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes?  I can help...asking is free!  :)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:19:45 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
At 01:50 PM 9/25/2003 -0500, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>Rich,
>Do not give up. 
 
Not to worry. I fired my first shot (letter to the prez), they fired their
first shot (denial), and now I am off to find another attorney.
 
I have come to the conclusion (based on info from folks on this list) that
my first attorney was full of beans, and was mostly trying to protect his
own butt. As the local corporate attorney for Nissan, he could not properly
argue my case, because he'd been arguing against people like me for years.
 
One of my ROWG buddies is currently suing Toyota over a Lemon Law issue, so
I'll go see his attorney and start proceedings.
 
I'll keep ya posted.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:15:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
Why are you paying a lawyer for what is really very simple breach of
federal warranty law.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:27:40 -0500
From: "Mark X. Herro" <mxlaw@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
I agree. Are you really racing the car or just out on a track with other
good 'ol boys doing what this car was meant to do, that is, go like a bat
outta hell? The question in warranty parlance is fitness for a particular or
intended purpose. Were these cars not meant to be driven above 100mph? Were
the tranny's meant to take that 'abuse'? Are we not men?
 
Yes they are a great body style and heavy as all get out and have 4 seats
but then why oh why did bitsumishi turbo them to 300 plus horsepower and
market them as a challenge to the corvette?
 
By the way tell the spies I havent had mine on a track....not yet.
 
M X Herro....yeah its my real name
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:31:23 +0200
From: "Roger L. Skoglund" <norbolig@online.no>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
Rich,
 
I would also very carefully read what the car manufacturer has stated in the sales brochures regarding your car. Do they encourage "sporty driving", do they write about maximal lateral G-forces, acceleration, fantastic braking power with no brake fade etc.
 
They should not name it a sports car or encourage any such use, if it will not stand that usage.
 
Good luck !
 
Best regards,
Roger L. Skoglund
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:27:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
Always a good argument with GM on the corvette, as it comes with basically
a "how to race me" VHS and DVD when you buy it.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:47:57 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
PERSISTENCE IS THE KEY!  DO NOT GIVE UP!  But do keep the letter to help you make the claim that they denied your warranty claim in bad faith.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:53:46 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Sue the bastards revisited
 
I have passed this information on to other (non-3/s) forums. If mitsu
wants to fight dirty, let them. By the time they're done, they'll be on
par with Hyundai.
 
Alex.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:19:35 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Sue the bastards revisited
 
That's for all the ROWG that buy those cars cause they always wanted one
when they were a kid, not the performance issue....
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #263
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