Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Saturday, September 6 2003 Volume
02 : Number 249
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:18:58 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Problems w/ 117 Octane and boost
Plug gap should be around 0.032 on stock plugs with boost beyond 10
psi.
Irridiums only 1 or two range colder (depends on the stage of mods)
and
leave gap on them where it is. Everbody know that changing plugs on our
cars
is a PITA for the rear (especially as the plenum gasket should be
renewed
sometimes) ... unfortunately, we do not have easy access to the plugs
like
the smaller engines.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:18:54 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Problems w/ 117 Octane and boost
Cody, you saw knock on the DSM or 2S with Irridiums ???
As we are a 3000GT and Stealth related mailing list always exactly
specifiy
what you mean. Due to some experiences the experience on the DSM do
not help
a lot in the 3S world so it is better to tell about your experiences
and
tuning expertise on the 3S cars ...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:30:50 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Low fuel pressure causing knock with boost?
> Ok, so all these daily driven DSM's I've helped work on, in the 11's
and
> low 12's show no tuning knowledge whatsoever?
In general it shows that there may be experience in tuning in the
devices
like an AFC or so what can be very helpful for people with less
knowledge
about those parts.
> If you all don't want to go fast, then so be it, but there are
some
> risks. So far, in the past two years, no one has blown a
motor. One
> person spun two rod bearings, but that motor had 178K
on it, making low
> 12 second passes all day long.
Note : DSM not 3S cars ... this is a 3S mailing list, so provides us
with
great tuning methods on particular parts and not DSM enginr related
stuff.
Unfortunately, there is really not much what can be put from the
4-banger
world into the 3S area. The V simpyl acts different to the
inliner.
According to all the HP calculators, (none of us have ever seen a
dyno
or a wideband), the strongest car is making somewhere in
the
neighborhood of 450-500 hp, or approx 250 hp / liter.
> BTW, my own car - low 12's, 22 psi, pump
gas,....
<snip>
Please bring in your input and experience on the 3S cars you made and we
can
all learn from that. Also, experiences on tuning devices is for sure
very
helpful. But everythinn that is specific to the DSM should be left to
their
boards and mailings list. This mixup already causes mistakes
and
misunderstandings. Why else do I already get mails where people ask me
how
to achieve 21 psi like this DSM guy speaks here on the list.
And this is an Amin Message : Please keep DSM specific issues off the
list
and concentrate to provide helpful insights on the 6G72 engines that
may
lead into a solution for the problem !
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:52:27 -0400
From: Darren Schilberg <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: brakes
Joe - Good catch but there was also a discussion about the tire friction
that
Lucius addressed but you raise a good point.
The general rule of thumb for brake issues goes like this: if you press the
brake pedal and have sufficient pressure but are not slowing down very much
then your brake pads have faded (or were not bedded in and are not "biting"
the rotor very well); however, if you push the brake pedal and it goes to
the
floor or has very soft pressure but you slow down then the fluid in the
caliper has boiled. There can be a combination of both of these but it
is
discovered when you bleed your brakes and then experience brake
fade.
So if Ken had good pedal pressure but just did not slow down then it was
brake
fade (not bad tire choice and not degraded brake fluid). This
was mentioned
as possibly due to the pads not being bedded to the rotors or
vice versa. If
they were bedded then maybe they glazed over in those
few days of time and
needed a good stop to clean them up. Not
sure. I've asked Ken to give me
specifics instead of "I almost hit a
car and couldn't stop in time."
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:56:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: overclck <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Re: Team3S: Problems w/ 117 Octane and boost
Sorry, that was on the DSM, however, From being involved on
other
messageboards for turbo'd cars (Best friend drives a 11 second, almost
stock
MKIV), I have learned that it seems the ONLY group to suggest Iridiums
or
Platinum plugs versus Copper plugs is the 3000GT Group... I can't
figure
that out... Yet some 3/S tuners do sell "performance copper plugs"
which are
no more than a standard $2 copper NGK plug available from any auto
parts
store. Maybe if more 3/S owners tried this, we would have fewer
spark
problems, less knock problems and so forth. Actually, in talking
with a
couple local performance shops (I'm talking 8 and 9 second turbo'd
Mustangs
and Camaros) everyone prefers a copper plug for forced
induction.
To me, longevity and performance appears to be a tradeoff, but when I
can
change the plugs in my 3000 in less than 45 minutes, I'd tradeoff
longevity
for performance any day...
Discuss....
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: overclck <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Re: Team3S: Low fuel pressure causing knock with boost?
>As supposed, the FPR wasn't the problem at all. Our car isn't a DSM
;-)
Ya know, and from this point on, this will be private. The 3000GT may
not
be a DSM, but I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, at least 90% of the
systems
are identical.
Now I'm sorry, you have a big head Roger and that the almighty 3000GT
is
DIFFERENT FROM EVERYTHING, but I thought a little diversity would be a
good
thing. I learn from other car owners of Mustangs, Camaros, Supras,
even
turbo'd Thunderbirds. Always something new, and something new to
try, or a
different point of view.
If you don't want to expand the overall knowledge of all cars and maybe
new
insights on the 3000, then I'll just shutup, but I think there's lots
more
on this board that might learn something new from the tried and
true
DSM's...
We are of course the only Mitu's that have seen 8's in the 1/4, we are
the
only daily drivable 9 second Mitsu's, and stock bottom end cars pull
10
second 1/4's all the time. In terms of advancement, the DSM is
lightyears
ahead of the 3000.
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:10:03 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Re: Team3S: Problems w/ 117 Octane and boost
BS !!! ... read the archives (and you need to do) and you will learn that
we
all recommend the coppers and made different experiences with
Irridiums.
It's just a PITA to change them often on our cars ... ! So better
first read
the archives :-)
------------------------------
I must respectfully disagree. I believe you have confused force and
energy
(power). Rotor area does affect the amount of energy the brakes
can
dissipate. Slots reduce this area by some amount. I'm not
sure about the
bite question, but intuitively I have a hard time seeing how
the pad
material has enough time to "spring back" and engage the trailing
edge of
the slot.
Jim W
92 3000GT SL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:53:51 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brakes
Ok, I need to ask another dumb question. Have I read several posts
now that say that surface area of the pad and rotor have no effect on stopping
power (in other words, bigger pads and rotors do not increase your stopping
power)? Or, are these posts simply saying that the decrease in the surface
area of a slotted or drilled rotor (caused by the slots and holes) does not have
any effect on stopping power when compared to a solid rotor of the same
size?
snip
<<<Surface area is not entered into the equation>>>
------------------------------
They are saying that those factors do not help you at all on your first
stop :)
Subsequent stops may be downhill from there...
Donald Ashby
'93
3000GT VR-4 (RIP)
'92 3000GT VR-4 (Vroom!)
"Don't drink and park,
accidents cause people!"
------------------------------
Bigger brakes solve nothing if youre tire/surface contact is limited.
Bigger however, CAN stop you more reliably and linearly over and over
and
over and over...
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:53:24 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brakes
That explanation I buy.
<<<Bigger brakes solve nothing if youre tire/surface contact is
limited.
Bigger however, CAN stop you more reliably and linearly over and over
and
over and over...>>>
------------------------------
>> ... that surface area of the pad and rotor have no
>>
effect on stopping power
Not exactly true. And, not exactly false. The surface area of the pad does
not *in itself* affect the friction (force) generated between rotor and pad.
However, the surface area of the pad can affect the pad's temperature, which
does affect stopping power. Please read on. :)
The book:
Eshbach's Handbook of Engineering Fundamental's, 4th ed., by
Byron D. Tapley and Thurman R. Poston, eds., 1990.
Section 3.5 FRICTION
[QUOTE]
Laws of Friction for Dry Surfaces
1. Friction between two given bodies is directly proportional to the
pressure, the coefficient of friction is constant for all pressures.
2. The coefficient and amount of friction for given pressures are
independent of the area of contact.
3. The coefficient of friction is independent of the relative velocity,
although static friction is greater than kinetic friction.
[ENDQUOTE]
So what does this have to do with our brakes? I am glad you asked.
Friction is that component of force between two bodies that is parallel to
the surface of contact between the two bodies. Static friction is the amount of
force that must be overcome to start one body moving with respect to the other.
We don't care about this too much for our cars except for the parking brake.
Kinetic friction is that force that must be overcome to keep two objects sliding
with respect to each other. This is the one that pertains to our brake pads and
rotors.
So how do our brakes work to slow the car? The force of the pad against the
rotor converts kinetic energy into thermal energy (or heat, which is different
than temperature, though a temperature change can accompany a thermal energy
change, but not necessarily). The more force exerted against the rotor the
faster the car will slow - assuming the tire traction issue is uniform in all
cases. The force exerted by the pad and rotor against each other is equal to the
amount of pressure the between pad and rotor perpendicular to the surface times
the coefficient of kinetic friction.
Note that rule (2) above says the area of contact does not affect friction.
While this is true (smaller pads can stop as fast as larger pads - all else
being equal), there is one other very important factor that affects braking.
This is the fact that the coefficient of kinetic friction is dependent on
temperature (while remaining independent of pressure and velocity). Generally
the coefficient will increase as temperature increases, up to a point. Then it
will stay relatively constant for either a narrow or broad temperature range.
However, above a certain temperature the coefficient will decrease fairly
quickly (a condition known as brake fade).
What larger pads and certain rotor and caliper designs do is improve the
dissipation of thermal energy. This may allow the pad's temperature to remain in
the most optimal region for best (highest) coefficient of kinetic
friction.
So here is how you can stop faster (not considering tire-ground surface
friction or brake fluids).
1) Exert more force by:
- - pressing harder on the brake pedal,
- -
using a master cylinder with a larger cylinder diameter (multiplies pedal
force),
- - preventing brake lines from expanding (reduces pressure losses
or delays), and
- - use a caliper with more total cylinder area (multiplies
MC force).
2) Increase the coefficient of kinetic friction by:
- - using different
pads (with materials and a coefficient optimal for the use of the pads),
and
- - maintaining the optimal temperature at the rotor-pad interface (this
can include air- or water-cooling of the brake area or using calipers and/or
rotors that dissipate heat better).
3) Increase the "stopping lever" by
- - using rotors with a larger
diameter.
============================================
So why do I spend so much effort on replies like this? Because I am writing
a somewhat comprehensive, and optionally technical, upgrade guide for our cars.
In addition to the experiences and expertise of others, posts here and on
3si.org and in personal correspondence will be the basis for much of that
guide.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:58:22 -0500
From: "Jesse Rink" <
jrink-3si@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Low fuel pressure causing knock with boost?
Would checking my timing value on the datalogger (pocketlogger 2.03)
be
enough? it shows me at 13-16 timing during idle... i dont know
if this
matters or whether it has to be checked with a timing light?
Jesse Rink
Eagle, WI
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: overclck <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Re: Team3S: Low fuel pressure causing knock with boost?
The timing value the ECU reports is not correct in relation to base
timing.
You will need a timing light, and to ground a connector in the
engine
compartment behind the battery to ensure the ECU's adjusted timing is
not
being shown...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:38:04 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: more information on slow starting problem
Ok, I have some more information on my slow starting problem, for you and
hopefully we can narrow this down.
I checked the timing and everything lines up perfectly.
I drove the car a little, 5 minutes or so, and shut it off. Then
immediately started it again, and it cranked right up.
Then after I got back home, I let it sit for 5-10 minutes, and pulled the
fuel fitting that is on the drivers side that goes between
the two fuel
rails, and there was no fuel at all in there.
What do you think ? I am going to replace the fuel filter for the
heck of it. But any ideas if that could be it or whatever else
to check
?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:41:14 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
more information on slow starting problem
Maybe the check valve in the pump or a leaking 'O' ring at the pump
that
allows the fuel to drain back into the tank.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:22:56 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brakes
Lucius gave the long answer but I stand by my comment.
The laws of physics [ like the courses they make you take in high school
]
show that the force required to move a object sitting on a surface is ---
the
coefficient of friction times the mass of the object --- at no time
do they ask
about surface area. The reason is that for hard smooth surfaces
there are
only a few micro inches of actual contact due to the irregularities
in the
material. Brakes are no different --- force and COF are the deciding
factors.
As Jeff points out temperature does enter into the equation but only
to the
extent that the COF is degraded as the material gets above 1000º, or
as for
most brake pad material, if the temp is below a certain level.
More mass allows you to absorb more heat which allows you to stop
more
often before the COF is degraded or the fluid in the caliper
boils.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
The old tranny is out, and the rebuilt Kormex tranny goes in on Sunday.
We hope to at least get the tranny and transfer case installed,
plus
whatever else time permits.
We got:
Tranny jack
Floor jack
New clutch, PP, TO bearing,
machined flywheel
Clutch alignment tool (BTW, Mitsu does not supply one with
a new clutch and
PP).
six guys, including one expert tranny guy (5 trannys
so far--mine is #6)
Pot of coffee for before
2 Cases of beer for
later
Question:
What is the recommended procedure for adding fluid?
I have 3 quarts of brand spankin' new normal, regular 'ol 90W gear oil,
the
kind recommended for the car. Eventually I want to run a synthetic.
I recall a post that said fill it up and see if it leaks BEFORE putting
it
in the car.
OK, I can do that.
Then what? Drain it out for the install? Or install it full of fluid?
Should I run the standard gear oil for a while, to make sure everything
is
working, and THEN change it over to synthetic? Or should I drain and
toss
the 3 quarts of brand new gear oil and put the synthetic in right away?
Which synthetic?
What about the transfer case? It's sitting over there on the garage
floor,
minding its own business, not causing any trouble, and not leaking.
Should
we change its fluid? If so, to what?
All advice is welcome.
Rich/shiftless old ricer
94 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:15:04 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
3S-Racers: Tranny installation Q
I'd say no to filling to check for leaks and then draining the fluid.
It's
a Kormex tranny and they do good work plus you can only check a
very
limited amount of tranny. You can't install the tranny with fluid
in it, it
will leak out the holes for the front axels
Use the good stuff first --- I've heard GM syncromesh is the
best
choice. I'm using Redline synthetic and am experiencing some
shifting
problems [ I also have a bad 1st gear synchro ] so I'm going to try
the
GM stuff as recommend by a batch of folk. BG syncroshift is another
of
the recommended products.
Drain the transfer case and go with the shockproof heavy --- I
don't
remember if that's Redline or BG. I think it's Redline ?!?!?! It's
pink
gooey looking stuff and as I recall it only takes 6/10ths of a
quart.
Rich --- judging by some of your posts your best bet is to stay the hell
out of their way --- restrict yourself to keeping their coffee filled and
handing them tools. If they ask you a technical question nod your head
knowingly, look pensive and say "I'll have to get back to you on that"
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:29:27 -0400
From: "Jack" <
whutzdat@adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RT/TT at 160K - rebuild it or get another one?
Hello Mike,
Right now i have a 91 Stealtl E.S. The only mods is a
3" dual exaust. Big
difference. Have 178000 miles on the car and it
runs like a dream. Would
love a Twin turbo. I can not imagine how much
there is in power to mine.
Have never driven one.. Would you consider a
trade..
Jack
------------------------------
Hello,
I recently landed a bargin on ebay. I just needed a
passenger side tail light, the center piece between the
tail lights and
a reverse/reflector piece. I ended up
with both tail lights, the
center piece, and both
reverse/reflector pieces. If anyone needs a
driver's side
tail light for their Stealth and it will fit your car,
e-mail me with an offer. My "local" salvage yards in
Kansas City
were all around $80 for a tail light, new from
my "local" Dodge dealer in
Warrensburg the tail light was
$250.
I am hoping that the parts I
ordered will fit my car, the
auction didn't say whether the car was a R/T or
not, but
everything looked identical. I guess if it doesn't then
all the parts are avalible. :)
Thanks,
Carol Decker
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:55:54 -0400
From: "anscray" <
anscray@comcast.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brakes
I have to hand it to all of you who have responded
to this post and
especially those who continue to stand by their beliefs and
knowledge. Jeff
always manages to impress me when he whips out the big
guns. It's because
of a few guys like us who love our cars so much that
a "team" like this
exists. I learn something new everyday by reading
these posts and wonder if
somewhere out there just maybe a team exists of
homemakers who believe so
strongly in their recipes.
My opinion is that there are many factors that
affect stopping power
from the auto's weight to brakes, rotors, tires, and
the surface they
contact. One combination may work great for one
individual, and poorly for
the next depending on the reason for the
application(street,drag,track,etc).
In Rich's case he had a bad experience
with S/D rotors and stays away from
them. I would too if I had his
experience, and I might feel the same if I
experienced what Ken did after
swapping rotors.
I think the bottom line is we all are
very critical of our cars and
we will continue to use what works and makes us
feel all warm and fuzzy
inside. I am just happy I have access to all of
our admin and member
knowledge to keep my car performing great and I'm loving
every minute of it.
Thanks guys,
Scott
94 VR4 w/ lots of goodies
------------------------------
>Jim Berry sez:
>Rich --- judging by some of your posts your best
bet is to stay the hell
>out of their way --- restrict yourself to
keeping their coffee filled and
>handing them tools. If they ask you a
technical question nod your head
>knowingly, look pensive and say "I'll
have to get back to you on that"
You damn betcha.
The only thing I can offer these guys in return for their wrenching
--
except for coffee, hamburgers, and beer -- is some help with their
writing.
Most are engineers or programmers, which means they are
essentially
illiterate (as are most engineers). I was a an engineer once, and
I was
illiterate too, so I understand.
Therefore, I will offer to help them with their proposals, business
plans,
resumes, letters, documentation, or whatever.
There ain't much I am really very good at. Lord knows, I can't talk good.
I
was a pretty good real time programmer once -- sent stuff to the moon
with
NASA -- but that was long ago. It may surprise almost all of you who
know
me, but I was the VERY BEST high tech public relations guy the world
has
ever known.
Yeah, I was in PR. Imagine that.
In any case, I write well enough to make a living at it, so I'll offer
my
services to my pals in return for their exceptional help in this project.
I still don't understand why these five guys are helping me out. I am
a
crabby old sumbitch, so it ain't my dynamic personality. One comes from
Des
Moines, 120 miles away. They bring tools, jacks, downloads from
websites,
and tons of enthusiasm. I am in awe of the entire situation.
Maybe it's our car. It does funny things to people.
Rich/shiftless old ricer/slow old poop
------------------------------
I was doing some work on my engine today and I saw a little bulb
housing
attached to the hood. Never saw that before. I managed to take it
apart and
replaced the bulb, but I don't know how to activate it. Is it
supposed to
come on when you open the hood?
- --- Marven Lamarre
'92 Dodge Stealth NA
K&N Filter
Hose
Techniques Engine Kit
"Bring Truth To Impossiblity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:29:05 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Underhood light?
Turn the headlights on, then open the hood =)
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 12:27:23 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: more information on slow starting problem
There is nothing I am aware of between the fuel rails and the fuel tank
(FPR and return lines) that has a check valve it that would prevent fuel from
returning to the tank. I would expect fuel volume to be low between the highest
point in the system (rails) and the tank (return side). On the supply side
(lines and filter) there is a check valve in the pump to reduce flow back
through the pump.
I have not checked after 5 miniutes recently, but I regularly look at my
fuel pressure gauge as I start my '92 TT after it has sat for say 3 hours or
more. Always, pressure starts out at 0 and builds rapidly to 40 or so psi (in
maybe 1 second?), and the engine starts.
When I had messed up the o-ring on the outlet tube of the fuel pump, I do
remember the pressure went to 0 within minutes after shutting the car off. When
cranking the engine, pressure took several seconds (maybe up to 5?) to build to
about 20-25 psi when the engine would finally start. When driving with this
problem pressure did not increase very well to match boost increases.
Rather than replacing the fuel filter, you might consider installing a fuel
pressure gauge (even temporarily) to see if your problems are related to fuel
pressure.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:53:25 -0400
From: "Arthurs Family" <
arthursfam@madbbs.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Loud Rod Knock!!!
Theo,
I hate to be the bad guy, but before you start, I've got to give you
my
unprofessional opinion. Unless you want to spread the rebuild
project out
over a looong period of time, don't begin unless you are willing
to put
$4000 into it! If you do have some $$ left when finished, use
this to go
celebrate (at Wendy's...dollar menu) when the engine fires up and
all the
back slappin' is over with. Seriously, I can document
about $3200 of
expenditures, but this doesn't include the countless trips
to
walmart-napa-autozone-pepboys for the "under $5 stuff".
This is Bill & Jon's list of things you must have before you take off
the
hood:
1. lifting device, floor jack(s), jackstands.
2. load leveler!!! thank
you Mr. Crabtree!!!
3. pint and quart zip lock freezer bags from
walmart
4. "toe tags" from office max
5. lots of magic markers for
above 2 items
6. shop manuals
7. camera (preferably digital) but doesn't
have to be the finest. it's
gonna get greasy!
8. work area you
can make look (for a few critical days when re-assembling
anyway) like the
guy's on Hot Rod TV.
9. insulated area between garage & spouse,
mother, younger siblings so they
can't hear the new & interesting
combination of words when you spend 6 hours
re-doing cam timing 55
times.
10. four grand in cash-credit-iou's
11. partner(s) to share the
pain & the glory (and to do the s--t work like
manning the parts
cleaner). I was known as "the parts cleaning bitch"
during
rebuild.
This saturday, I'll be home 'til about 1:00. Jon is taking his
Stealth to
Kittanning tonight/ tomorrow for the "anything that floats"
regatta part 3.
(look for the BP pump floating down the river...he'll be one
of the
oarsmen). Oarsman? Sounds like someone cruisin' Liberty
Ave.
Anyway, feel free to call or e when you like.
Bill (Jon's father) Arthurs
Jamestown, NY
(716)664-4109
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:21:02 -0400
From: "Dennis R. Ninneman" <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: RT/TT at 160K - rebuild it or get another one?
The only problem that can't easily be fixed, updated, upGRADED,
improved is a nasty accident that seriously damaged the chassis. It
never is really right after that. But you made no comments about that,
so your golden. Only two other considerations: 1) are quality
after
market parts available - yes and seems to be increasing; and 2) are
there other rides that you would really prefer right now?
Currently,
the VR4/RTTT is about the best bang for the buck (mainly because
of the
chassis/AWD and the low appreciation of the car that has depressed
prices). Oh ............ one other consideration: if your not inclined
to do maintenance/repairs yourself, do you have easy access to a quality
person that can? The car will spend more and more time in your garage
if you don't have such a person.
Properly set up, it is a very satisfying ride. If you still like the
looks and performance, spend some money to upgrade with new performance
parts. You'll be able to run with all the cars you mentioned.
Dennis -==- Philly
Still lov'n my second VR4 at 54 (tomorrow)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:13:33 -0400
From: "Dennis R. Ninneman" <
dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes
Speaking of brakes .............
Did a four wheel pad replacement last weekend on my '97 VR4 (63k
miles). Wanted to try ceramic pads (SBS). Rotors in fine shape,
no
warping. Now, I've done brakes a fair number of times in my life
........... on three different family VR4s. But really had a tough
time
on this job. Had one frozen piston on each front caliper.
Same
outboard rear piston on each caliper. All others retracted as
always.
It took two c-clamps on each of these two pistons ............
and lots
of force ........ to break them loose to retract. The drivers
side I
never did retract all the way. Got to within a sixteeth
of full
retraction. Once the other piston 'broke loose' it retracted
as
expected. Looks like a caliper rebuild coming soon.
Any special bedding procedure for the ceramics?
Dennis -==- Philly
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:16:15 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
steering rack
Hey all,
So I was at discount tire
getting my wheels balanced and after
getting the lovely news that _all_ of my
shocks are leaking, the store
manager also showed me something nice. With the
car off the ground, he
turned the front wheels from side to side (like they
would to make a
turn). He got a good couple of inches in side to side motion
and the
steering wheel moved along with that motion. The same trick worked
from
both sides. He used that to say that a gear is worn in the rack.
Does
this sound right? Should this not be happening?
Thanks,
Alex
'95 VR4 badly in need of a sledge hammer
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
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