Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Friday, August 29
2003 Volume 02 : Number 242
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
From:
davis2005@canada.comSubject: Team3S:
Cars running sluggish
Hi All. When I step on my gas to the floor my car runs
very sluggish.
Any ideas.
------------------------------
>Adam and I noticed that until the transmission is installed, the
clutch
>disk has a possibility of not being centered behind the pressure
plate.
>We eyeballed that as best we could before we torqued down the
pressure
>plate bolts, and right as we brought the transmission into place
we
>both looked at each other and said "the clutch disk is
centered,
>right?" because I don't know how to fix it unless we take the
tranny
>back off, which I don't really want to do.
I'd have to agree with Jack T and Matt. I've done 16 3S clutch swaps and
I
agree that proper centering of the clutch disk is essential. And I've
had
difficulty with that in the past, even with using the tool. Sometimes
the
tranny goes right on and other times it may take hours of frustration
to
get it lined up. It's also a good idea to pre-fit the clutch disk to
the
tranny input shaft before you install it to make sure that it fits
easily
onto the splines. Some of the new clutches I've installed required
using a
steel file to de-burr the clutch disk splines to facilitate it going
onto
the shaft. You also will want to lightly grease the tranny input shaft,
but
not too much!
Although I've done the job alone, I found it works best with 2 people,
an
engine hoist, a jack, and a chain with a hook on the end of it. You
can
insert the hook of the chain into the center vent hole in the
bellhousing
and hook the other end of the chain to the engine hoist. This
makes it easy
to raise the tranny into position while the 2nd person guides
it. And I've
never had a problem with cracking the bellhousing as you might
think using
this method. Use the jack to raise up the nose of the tranny and
get it
level. Also it helps to use 3 of the long bolts from the transfer case
as
guide pins to line the tranny up with the engine. While one person
pushes
on the end of the tranny, the other person helps to guide the tranny
and
check the alignment.
From your description, it sounds like you may need to remove the tranny
and
re-center your clutch disk using a centering tool. Good Luck
Jeff W.
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
------------------------------
Need help in figuring out how to remove the A/C condenser, located in
front
of the radiator.
The service manual is no help.
My problem is complicated in that the previous owner installed
Alamo
intercoolers, which require that the oil cooler be relocated in front
of
the condenser. The oil cooler blocks my view of the condenser so I
can't
see all the connections very well, and the manual is not clear.
If I could get the big fitting off (there are two coolant line fittings,
on
the right side as you look down), then I could probably get the
condensor
out far enough to reach the oil cooler lines, to take them off. I
got both
coolant fittings loose and the top fitting came right off. But the
big one
is resisting all efforts to pry it out of the way. I could use a
bigger
screwdriver or pry bar, but I worry about bending and kinking
the
refrigerant line, or somehow scratching the landing where the A/C
fittings
go.
One possibility is to loosen the bracket holding the refrigerant lines,
but
it's about 10 inches away, buried way down inside a bunch of stuff.
That
would certainly loosen the coolant line, and probably would give me
enough
room to get the big fitting off. I can get the nut on the bracket off
with
a socket and extension, but I worry about putting it back on later,
cuz
it's really buried. I'll do it if I gotta, but maybe you folks know
an
easier way.
The great thing about this list is that you guys ALWAYS have seem to have
a
simple solution for just about everything we encounter. Got one here?
Is there a bracket I can't see that holds the fittings to the
condenser?
Can I disassemble the condenser on the car enough to get it out? I see
lots
of screws holding it together.
Should I remove the oil cooler first? It mounts through the condenser
with
5 weird plastic fittings that don't unscrew -- they appear to be
pressed
together somehow. Anybody have Alamo intercoolers out there? Do you
how
those fittings come apart?
I'm taking the condenser off to get it cleaned and "combed" at a rad
shop.
The entire area open to the grille is clogged with gunk and bent fins,
but
the shop says they can fix it if I bring them the condenser. This may
be
the reason for my car overheating under high boost, so I want to clean it
up.
Thanks for your help.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
It may be a little late for this advice James, but maybe Merrit can use
it.
I replaced my clutch SOLO. My wife was a big help by holding the
light, and
passing tools. I had a decent tranny jack, and the nose of
the car as high as I
could get it with about a dozen 2x4s ontop of my floor
jack (yes, I also had
jackstands).
The only way I could get the splines to line up was to put a jack under the
oil
pan of the engine (at the timing belt end) and lift up that end, which
pointed
the tranny end downward toward my trans. It slipped on like
butter.
I know my problem was worstened by the shot motormounts, and since you have
poly
mounts, there isn't much flex at all. Rich, maybe you can remove
the engine
mount near the timing belt to re-create my situation.
- --
Marc J.
Jacobs
'94 Blue VR-4 with bruised ears from all the cursing.
xDSL Hardware
Development
Alcatel, USA (919) 850-6386
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:42:26 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tranny install
One other thing, if you're using a tranny jack, you'll need to put the
differential part in first. I, too, had the front end of my car jacked up
real high under jackstands. Using the tranny jack with the tranny ratchet
strapped to it, I tilted the tranny forward as far is would go (forward meaning
toward the front of the car), so that I could get the differential up over the
crossmember. I then pushed the tranny jack toward the rear of the car
while jacking it up very slowly to feed it into place. Once I got the diff
up over the crossmember, I worked the angles and height on the jack to get the
tranny in place, and then, making sure the input shaft was exactly LEVEL with
the clutch disk (you can't go in on an angle), pushed the tranny on while
spinning the passenger side half shaft. A little grease on the input shaft
is a good idea, but the operative word is a LITTLE grease. The tranny
slipped on with little or no difficulty.
Once thing I'd recommend to anyone thinking of doing this job is to
videotape the 5-10 minutes it takes to remove the last bell housing bolt and
pull the tranny out from underneath the car. Then, when preparing to
reinstall, you can review the tape and see exactly how it needs to go back
in. With the crossmember interference and the size of the tranny, I think
there's only one way that damn thing can go in our out. So that might be
of some help. If anyone ever tries it, let us know if it helped at all
during reinstallation.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:01:40 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
Team3S: SL automatic wheel bearings.
Has anyone out there replaced wheel bearings on an SL with an auto
tranny?
My 93 SL is getting aged & I am building a parts list for a front
end
whole-hog session. If I have to go in, I might as well do everything I
can
at once. The CV joints were replaced by the previous owner (so says the
pile
of receipts that came with the car) and I feel no weirdness that bad
cv
joints cause on launch so I am planning on skipping THAT expense. I
am
expecting to do control arm bushings, ball joints, struts, wheel
bearings.
some of the stuff I have read on this list about wheel bearings is
a bit
discouraging to DIYer like my self but I have a feeling the SL autobox
front
hub assembly is different then the VR4's or the SL manual tyranny's.
Any
input from this brainy crowd is Mucho appreciated, and yes, I HAVE
a
press!!! a used chinese cheapie but hey, it works.
Pete Rivenburg
------------------------------
Nick,
I had the same problem, the first connection out of the tank was
buggered,
somehow. I finally got the joint to break loose, but the
threads got tight again just
before the flexible hose(female threads)
separated from the hard-line (male
threads). I got worried I was about to do
damage and tightened that joint back up and move
to the nest joint, just in
front of the tank. Use a 14mm line wrench and 19mm open end.
There is just
barely enough room in the access hole to pull the sender/pump plate out
with
the flexible line still attached. It's a tight fit.
Good luck,
Charles
Canney
------------------------------
I am having a strange problem that started a few weeks ago, and I am at a
loss to explain what is going on and would greatly
appreciate any help or
assistance.
Recently my car started having problems starting. The car turns over
right away with no problems with the starter or battery.
The car turns over right away, but sometimes can take 6-8 seconds or
longer. But before the car would crank right up in a second
or
two. It doesn't seem to make a difference whether the car is hot or
cold it still does it.
I am not sure if this is a major problem, but it certainly is
annoying.
I put new plugs in to see if that would solve the problem, but it didn't
make a big difference.
I checked everything over today by checking the plug gap, checked all
intake and vacuum hoses for leaks, and everything seems fine.
Once the car
starts, it runs just fine. There are no idle roughness, or misfires.
------------------------------
I just returned from putting in a set of KYB AGX 8-way adjustable
gas
shocks on my Talon.
So far, they feel great!
These shocks look almost identical to the struts on a 3000GT/Stealth.
They
are probably a little shorter with a smaller load rating (a Talon
weighs
600 lb less), and they look similar because a Talon is a little
brother to
the 3000GT.
I don't understand why KYB doesn't make AGX shocks for our cars.
I know we went through this last year. A bunch of us (a dozen, maybe)
even
went so far as to send emails to KYB's customer relations, all to no
avail.
I finally bought a set of GABs when it became apparent that we were
not
going to change KYB's mind.
However, it's a year later.
We have new dealers, who sell shocks and
stuff.
Our cars are a year older, and a few thousand more of them need new
struts.
The replacement shocks KYB offers for 3000GTs still suck, as far as
I know.
The only real option is stock relacement struts for street cars and
GABs
for racers.
GABs are $268 front/$185 rear each from Stillen. As near as I can
figure
it, that's $1,005 for a set of struts. Stock is probably the same
price.
Now check this: My complete set of 4 AGX struts for the Talon was $400
from
Road Race Engineering!!
Worse, rumor has it that KYB makes GAB struts. So, it's not a problem
with
making the strut, it's getting KYB to sell them to us. I wouldn't
be
surprised to find that AGX and GAB are identical, and differ in name only.
WTF do we gotta do to get KYB to offer AGX struts for our cars? They
seem
immune to pressure from consumers like us.
If we can't convince them, how hard would it be to make Talon struts fit
a
3000GT? They are very close already...maybe just a bracket (I suspect
the
bottom mounts are the same, but a spacer would be needed at the top
to
reach the shorter Talon shocks).
I know there is plenty of shock there, because I am cruising around in
the
middle of the adjustment range, and they are awfully stiff. I may have
to
dial back to "1" for the street.
Whatever dealer twists KYB's corporate arm or figures out how to
modify
Talon struts (Philip? Geoff?) could probably sell a ton of AGX struts
to
3000GT owners and racers.
Rich/slow old poop/94 VR4
------------------------------
When did you last replace the fuel filter?
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:24:29 -0500
From: "Canney, Charles C" <
charles.c.canney@lmco.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Intake plumbing Pressure tester
Team,
My question is, will a 3 1/2 " OD pipe seal in the MAF (oblong)
hole ? Or is
the 3 5/8" OD pipe necessary to achieve a seal?
My 91 TT is ailing I wish to eliminate the possibility of a leak in
the
plumbing from air filter to intake. The description on stealth316 of
the
home made pressure tester is great (
www.stealth316.com/2-pressuretester.htm)
with
one exception. I have been to 8 different plumbing supply, industrial
supply
and hose/pipe supply houses in the Ft Worth area, and have not been
able to
find the pipe transition that accepts the clean out plug/fitting on
one end,
and is 3 5/8" OD on the other end (1 - cleanout adapter 3-5/8" to
3-1/2" [PVC
sewer & drain fitting: 3-3/4 DWV x 3-3/4 S&D Adapter]).
thanks,
Charles Canney
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:10:25 -0500
From: "Jesse Rink" <
jrink-3si@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Line
I just removed the fuel pump assembly the other day, but underneath
the
car... For the life of me I couldnt bust it loose in the trunk, I
had to
get the hard line underneath the car. However, it's tricky
because you're
upside down and I have a problem remembering which way to turn
the wrench to
loosen it when im not lookin at things straight on, haha.
Turns out I was
tightening it.... Then a lightbulb went off. Finally
got it to come free.
Jesse Rink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:25:33 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Getting KYB AGX shocks
What springs are you using Rich??? I have my KYB's sitting, waiting
to
be installed on the Talon *the super 20g, 500+ hp turbo is
getting
installed now* and first of the month I am prolly gonna get
Ground
Controls... you do realize they are 4 front / 8 rear???
Either way,
they are great in my buddies car with some eibach sportlines, I
just
want adjustability and to be able to change spring rates - thinking
of
going 400 / 400
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:57:28 -0400
From: "Chris Thompson" <
cthompson@rrinc.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Getting KYB AGX shocks
I'm using KYB's with Eibach Sportlines on my Talon, but I still haven't
been
able to dial them in correctly yet. A good bit of bouncing around
still.
Putting in the new motor this week, and then off to get the
4-wheel
alignment done to see how bad the camber will be, and if I'll need to
put
camber plates in the front and start chopping up the rear end to get
it
right.
And Rich - I respectfully disagree that KYB would sell a *ton* of these
to
3s-racers. I've done over a half-dozen DE's up and down the east
coast over
the past two years, and I've never seen another 3s on the
track. It appears
I *am* the east coast contingent. Talons are
much more mass-market, and you
will expect to find a lot more suppliers (and
supplies). That's why we're
both going with the Talon mods, eh?
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:37:15 -0500
From: Christian Longtin <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: Starter problems & intercoolers question
Hi everyone,
I bought my car in June and since then I had nothing
but
problems with the starter.
June 17th :
I go to get the car. We had to push it back and forth
to
get it started. Sometimes it took more than 20 times.
June 24th :
I get the starter rebuild. The guy changed the solenoid
and
brushes, as far as he tells me. He had to take it out twice to make it
work.
July 1st :
I cross the car over into Canada. Start the car 20 times. No
problem
July 9th :
I go to one of my friends house, to show my car. I stay
30
min, after that the car wouldn't start. Whe push it back and forth and
after
12 tries it starts.
July 12th :
I bring back the car to the guy who rebuild the starter.
He
starts it 10 times in a row. He checked the connection poles and says to
me
that he can't do anything if the car is starting.
July 18th :
I leave the car at mitsu to get my recalls done. Next day,
the car wouldn't
start. The mechanic said the starter was about to fall into
the street. He
puts the starter back in place and tells me that there is some
current going
to the starter. He got it started and did my recalls.
July 20th :
I go to a Dodge/Chrysler dealer to get my SRS light
fix.
They say they can't do it so we try to go back home and guess what the
car
wouldn't start at all. We leave the car there.
July 24th :
Dodge/Chrysler puts in a brand new starter.
August 3rd and 5th :
I had to try 3 times to get it started.
Yesterday :
I try about 20 times, car wouldn't start. I push it just a
bit, still
wouldn't start. I push it again, it starts the first time.
Then
later that night, I go to dive the car on ramps and my dad says to me
that I
don't have to push the clutch in to start and guess what, the car
starts. I
check under the car nothing is lose with the connections or
the
starter.
Today :
I check in my owners manual and it clearly states that
you
have to press the clutch in to start it. (Clutch Interlocking)
To sum up, I have rebuild and changed the starter. The current goes to
the
starter. I can start it without the clutch
and sometimes it won't
start at all.
Anybody has a clue on what could be the problem ?
2nd question :
My intercoolers looked really finished. When I pass my
hand on them it feels
like paper. Is there a way to know for sure if they are
finished and what
would be the effects of bad intercoolers ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Christian Longtin
92 3000gt vr-4
------------------------------
>And Rich - I respectfully disagree that KYB would sell a *ton* of these
to
>3s-racers.
No, not just racers. Street cars too. Everybody. We all need a
decent
replacement strut that doesn't cost $1,000 a set.
>I've done over a half-dozen DE's up and down the east coast
over
>the past two years, and I've never seen another 3s on the
track. It appears
>I *am* the east coast contingent.
>
Been there, done that. Four years ago, I was the only one out there
in the
Lower Midwest. Oskar was running in Mnpls. Chuck Willis ran in Texas.
But
it's growing like crazy now.
Today, we have five cars running DEs
from lil ol Cedar Rapids!
People are discovering that our cars are the ideal vehicle (sorry
about
that) to go open tracking/DEing.
>Talons are much more mass-market, and you
>will expect to find a
lot more suppliers (and supplies). That's why we're
>both going with
the Talon mods, eh?
I am at the stage now where I have a Z06-killing 3000GT. I got there
by
making basic mods to my 3000GT -- brakes, engine, suspension. I
didn't
spend a lot -- maybe $3500 -- and it runs with M3s, Z06es, 911 turbos,
and
similar cars that cost upward of $50K new.
To go beyond this, into Viper country, will cost much much more than
it
will to take a Talon there. I saw two 3000GTs at the Gathering that were
in
Viper country: one spent $50K at Altered Atmosphere and one spent $40K
at
GT Pro. They were FAST! I think I can get a Talon there at a fraction
of
that price.
This does not change the fact that the 3000GT/Stealth is an
absolutely
fantastic track car in stock or modified form.
Rich/slow old poop
94 VR4
92 Talon TSi AWD turbo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:26:44 -0400
From: "Chris Thompson" <
cthompson@rrinc.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Getting KYB AGX shocks
No disrespect intended for the 3s platform, Rich. I've loved driving
this
car more than any car I've owned, I think. And the car was just
great at
Lowe's last weekend. My point was simply that we aren't going
to see cheap
enhancements for the car like we do for the DSM platform.
I'm just looking
for a cheap, "disposable" track car.
But you really think that you can make a Talon a Viper-killer? I
dunno.
There are limits. The Stealth/VR4 is a much more likely
candidate. Still,
no disrespect intended, but if you're going to spend
$50,000 to get a car
with the performance of a Viper, why not just get a
Viper? Instead of the
Z4, I almost bought a used Viper - about
$35,000.
It looks like I'll be driving the Stealth for the rest of this
season.
Would love to see any other of you listers out on the track with me
on the
east coast. It's lonely out there. Every weekend I drive,
the registrar
comments how strange it is that I'm the only Stealth out
there. Still, even
in stock form, I can run well with the M3's, 911's,
Cobra R's, etc. Of
course, I like to attribute this to the driver, not
the car ;-)...
Chris
93 Stealth RT/TT
90 Eagle Talon Tsi
66 Sunbeam Tiger
63
Jaguar XKE
03 BMW Z4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:04:20 -0700
From: "Michael, Sharon &
Dashiell Rhoden" <
rhoden@joimail.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Trouble with shifter, or...
I'm hoping this is a shift linkage problem rather than a
transmission
problem, but would appreciate any advice and opinions.
I was driving home this evening, travelling a bit above the speed
limit.
Stopped at the toll plaza, paid and took off.
When I tried to shift to second there was nothing there, just a spongy
feel
as I searched for where I was sure second should be.
I pulled over and found the same thing for each gear. Finally I
managed to
monkey it into third and drive to my exit on the freeway, then
monkey it
into second for surface streets and get it home.
I got pretty good at monkeying and found that the shift handle seemed to
be
at a different position each time I got it into a given gear.
Got home and pulled into the driveway and found that I could actually
find
all gears and consistently get the car into any one I wanted, though
the
shift lever position did not appear to be normal. I pulled of the
shift
boot, but couldn't see anything obviously wrong.
Took the car out for a spin around the block, and found that shifting
was
unpredictable and mushy again once the car was moving.
I plan to look at the repair manual right after this post, but I'll
check
email religiously this evening. If anyone has ideas or advice,
please let
me know. I'm hoping it's not time to replace the
transmission, though
recent posts will come in handy if that's the case, and
it would just about
renew the entire drivetrain if I did.
Thanks, Michael
92 VR4
------------------------------
Quick! Put it on a rack and check the fluid level in the
transmission.
When the level gets too low, the tranny does weird things,
sorta like you
are describing. Been there, done that. My first symptom was a
missed
shift, then I couldn't find gears, like you describe.
By the bye, it takes 2.5 qt of GL-4 grade 75W-90 gear oil, and you'll need
some way to pump it in there
from below.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:52:07 -0700
From: "Michael, Sharon &
Dashiell Rhoden" <
rhoden@joimail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Trouble with shifter, or...
It took a while for this post to make the list, and I was able to solve
the
problem after sleeping on it.
Fortunately, it was the linkage. There's a pin pressed through a part
of
the linkage that connects to the plunger rod that goes into
the
transmission. The plunger rod rotates when you move the shift lever
forward
or back, and it goes up and down when you move the lever left or
right.
The pin keeps the linkage that moves when you shift forward or back
in
place. Thus, when I tried to shift, the forward/back position was
all over
the place, but the left/right position didn't seem to shift.
Before the linkage started to slip really bad, I noticed increasingly
mushy
shifts for a month or two. I was afraid it was the transmission
going bad.
Now I think it was the pin barely holding on, allowing a few
degrees of
slop. With the pin back in place it shifts crisply
again.
I was able to complete the repair in less than an hour, using the old
pin
which had not fallen out. I'd prefer to use a new pin, but I had to
drive
to work.
I had to remove the air cleaner and some of the air ducts that are part
of
the turbo/air plumbing in order to get to the linkage. You can see
the
linkage just fine without removing all that, but you can't press the pin
in
or install a new one without removing some stuff.
I just pulled the pin out, cleaned it, put some brake fluid on to
lubricate,
eased it into place with pliers, then hammered it in once I was
sure it was
going in the hole. Then I used a punch to stamp it just a
bit in the hope
it will stay in place. I wish I'd used some silicon
sealant or a bit of KB
weld to hold it in place, but I'll do that next time
if necessary.
Total cost: $0, one hour of work (sweating in the GA pre-dawn), a few
aches
and pains, one sleepless night.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:34:27 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Intake plumbing Pressure tester
I modified Jeff's pressure tester a good bit using ordinary PVC Schedule 40
plumbing fittings (that's the thick stuff, not the thin drainpipe). My
pressure tester uses a 90 degree elbow after coming out of the intake to make
everything a lot more accessible and to put the pressure gauge in plain
view. It also has a tire valve coming off one side it can hold pressure
without leaving the compressor attached. I'll take a snapshot or two this
weekend and send them to you privately, along with a list of parts I used.
If anyone else wants to see the pictures, let me know. If there are a lot
of takers, I'll need someone to post them for me as I have no idea how to do
that.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:12:00 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Getting KYB AGX shocks
>> We all need a decent replacement strut that doesn't cost $1,000 a
set.
For my '92 TT, on 4/16/01 from Tallahassee Mitsubishi I paid $136.16 for
each rear ECS shock (MR179069) and $134.95 for each front ECS strut (MB892370).
That comes to $542.22 for all four. Not cheap, but hardly $1000.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:46:41 -0500
From: Christian Longtin <
Chriscooll@videotron.ca>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Starter problems & intercoolers question
> There is a switch on the clutch pedal that is supposed to be open
until
you press the clutch to the floor,
Where is the switch ? I looked in the back of the pedal and didn't
see
anything.
> When you say 'current' to the starter, do you mean the
> sol
wire or the batt wire?
I tried to contact the mechanic who took a look at this but he was
already
gone for the weekend. I would think that he would of checked the batt
wire
first. How do I checked the current on the sol wire ?
P.S. Today the car started without any problem
Thanks for the help
Christian Longtin
92 3000gt vr-4
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