Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, August 14
2003 Volume 02 : Number 229
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which Red Line oil did you have in the transfer case and transaxle?
I always use MT90 in my '93 VR4 and '94 VR4. Both have been through
the recall. The only thing was that the dealer would only refill the
transfer case with stock oil. There was no mention of any problem with the
Red Line product. It meets (exceeds) the specification for the transfer
case oil as found in the owners manual and service manual. The dealer is
full of feces, possible from a stopped up vent!
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:08:52 +0000
From:
mjannusch@comcast.netSubject: Re:
Team3S: Recall and Red Line oil
> When I spoke of the oil he said he's never see
> it so watered
down? I think he's just never seen
> Red Line? There was less than 5,000
on the oil.
Which Redline fluid did you use?
I use Shockproof Heavy in my transfercase and it is pretty thick.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:33:48 -0400
From: "Bedrock" <
r.bedrick@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Recall and Red Line oil
I used the Heavy Shockproof Gear Oil, I think the dealer is looking
for an
excuse to have to R&R the case. I have picks of it two
days before I took
it in because I was changing the oil and they show it
leaking. Not a bad
leak but it had drips hanging on.
Bob
White/Red 91
RT/TT, Original at 140,000+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:36:00 -0400
From: "Bedrock" <
r.bedrick@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Recall and Red Line oil
Oh yea and in the trans I use MT-90 and in the rear I use
75W90NS.
Bob
White/Red 91 RT/TT, Original at 140,000+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:39:34 -0400
From: Marc Jonathan Jacobs <
Marc.J.Jacobs@alcatel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Recall and Red Line oil
I think it may be because you have a '91 which has a different t-case than
the
'92-'93 which is different from the '94+. Wasn't there a recall on
the '91
t-case because it was all aluminum? I have a '94 so I haven't
followed it so
closely. They may have been looking at the wrong
TSB.
Congradulations on the longevity of your TT. I am on the 2nd
tranny and t-case.
- --
Marc J.
Jacobs
'94 Blue VR-4 123,000 miles
xDSL Hardware Development
Alcatel,
USA (919) 850-6386
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:54:42 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Knock and its definitions
Yes, you can but it's not much of help if any. The ECU controls the
solenoid
where the DSM guys installed the light and it will close to max
boost as
well as it alternates during warm up.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:27:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jim Floyd <
jim_floyd7@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Knock data loging - ECU exchange.
Is it possible to put an earlier model ECU in a '95 to replace the bastard
ECU that prevents data loging ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:36:14 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Knock and its definitions
Um, I was under the impression that pre- and post-ignition were in
reference
to the spark event, not the key position. I remember
post-ignition being
explained as unburned fuel igniting late - even as late
as the exhaust valve
opening - which is how backfire occurs. And
pre-ignition being caused by a
hot spot ignition, such as hot spark plugs,
occuring as fuel is entering the
chamber or during the compression
stroke.
I'm also having a hard time believing that the knock sensor won't pick
up
pre-ignition, because I believe that is what I'm getting in my car.
I run
19psi with alky injection, and have been getting 10-15 counts -lately-
at
high boost and flow. I pulled my spark plugs and they are as white
as snow,
indicating that they are too hot of a plug and are causing the knock
signal.
I cannot say I've ever heard a loud noise during these knock events,
so I do
not believe I'm getting detonation (or maybe not much).
Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White Stealth RT/TT
3Si Rochester (NY)
FIPK, HKS Dual Exhaust
AVC-R (19psi), Triad Alky Injection
Improved
Precats
Greddy S BOV
98/99 coolant tank
Krankvents
DN Performance
Y-pipe
Digital Tuning Pocketlogger
6 speed conversion, RPS Stage II
Cusco Rear Strut Bar, Konig Flight
17"
SS brake lines, DOT5.1 fluid
Slotted/Dimpled Rotors
007KEN spark
plug plate, license plates
ASC sunroof, white Ram emblem
Aiwa MP3
Stereo
Phantom Radar Jammer
- -Coming this friday - IK22 Iridium spark
plugs - 1 range colder cuz i was
overheatin the stockers =)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:09:39 -0500
From: tigertrentham <
tigertrentham@4state.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Well, I have been a member for a couple of days now, and have "lurked"
as recommended, and heartily agree with the e-mail rules regarding
silliness, spam, flaming, etc. I am very impressed with the interest,
effort, and results of the members. I was surprised, however, at all
the talk about detonation. It was sort of like the Kindergartners
inquiring about the sex of the pet kitten brought to school. They
finally decided to just vote on it. So it has been with detonation,
lots of different opinions. I offer a definition out of "Advanced
Engine Technology", by Heinz Heisler, a pretty fundamental and easily
read and understood text published by SAE.
This is from the 1995 edition, page 171. There is a newer edition
out.
"Detonation is the creation within the cylinder of a pressure-wave
traveling at such a high velocity that, through its impact against the
combustion chamber walls it excites them into vibrating."
Ok, so that doesn't really tell you very much, but a couple of pages
later in the discussion it begins to get very clear. And it is much
more than you may think, and to me, very interesting. I will try to
explain it in my own terms.
Combustion in spark ignition engines is dependent on flame front
burning and moving from the ignition point through the chamber.
If
there is not very much turbulence, the flame front proceeds rather
slowly, and the unburnt mixture in front of the flame gets hotter and
more compressed. Now if there is a lot of turbulence, the flame front
moves a lot faster, and there is less time for the unburnt mixture in
front of the flame front to get hot by heat transfer, and become highly
compressed.
If the turbulence is poor, and the flame front expanding slowly, the
unburnt charge gets hotter and more highly compressed, and eventually
reaches the critical detonation temperature. If the amount of charge
burned by normal ignition and flame front expansion is small when this
happens, then a lot of the unburnt charge is involved in the critical
detonation combustion. The reverse is true if the flame front moves
quickly, hence the amount of turbulence is important to preventing the
critical detonation combustion, or "detonation". Now it is
obvious
that two other things can reduce the detonation, higher octane fuel,
to
raise the critical detonation temperature, and additional spark plugs,
to shorten the total flame front path traveled.
So what? Well, the problem is, that when that detonation combustion
occurs from pressure and heat rather than from the flame front
advancing
into the unburnt charge, the resulting spontaneous ignition
burns at an
enormously high rate, releasing a large amount of energy
in a very
short time, which causes a violent pressure shockwave. The
speed of
this shockwave is 1000 to 1200 meters per second, that is
about a mile a
second!!!!, and it is powerful enough to cause the
combustion chamber walls
to actually resonate. It is this resonance,
with fundamental
frequencies in the range of about 500 Hz, that we hear
as a ringing
knock.
Subjecting the combustion chamber to such shockwaves is not
good. The
result is to scour away both the protective boundary layer
of stagnant
gas, and also the oil film layer. Loss of these protective
layers
cause higher heat transfer more friction, and loss of lubricant, and
the shock on the piston can destroy the wrist pin boundary lubrication
and small end joint.
It is obvious that detonation is more likely to occur at low speeds
rather than high, because it requires time to heat up and compress a
sufficient amount of unburned charge to cause knock. In fact, knock
can be caused by as little as 5 % unburnt charge igniting spontaneously
to cause a very violent shock.
And yes guys, there is Preignition and Post-ignition. Again, Heisler
explains it all, same book, pages 174 and 175.
Preignition is hot spot ignition caused by some hot spot in the
chamber, and occurs before the timed ignition. It is usually rather
unpredictable, because the hot spot has to heat up to ignition
temperature each cycle. Since it occurs early, it ends to heat up the
chamber walls as the time of burnt gasses in the cylinder is longer,
and
that in turn causes the self ignition temperature to occur earlier
and
earlier. Peak pressures advance from the ideal after TDC to TDC,
and
may even advance earler than TDC in which case some negative work
is
done. You can even get backfiring through the intake manifold if it
continues to advance in that manner. It is particularlly bad in
multicylinder engines when you don't really notice it as much, if only
one cylinder is doing it. You can get scouring of gas and oil film
also, just as you do with detonation.
Post-ignition is "running on ignition", and supplements the timed spark
ignition every time, just continues due to a hot spot if the ignition
is
turned off. It eventually quits if the fuel is cut off. It is also
has a hot spot source, frequently a spark plug electrode.
Hope this wasn't too long.
Paul Trentham
Old Guy with '93 Pearl Stealth TT, bought new, 155,000 miles, and Mobil
1 really does prolong engine life.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:13:06 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Good tutorial on detonation and it's affects. Turbulence and fuel
vaporization
are critical to helping eliminate detonation. Non homogeneous
air/fuel mixture
can cause distorted flame front which allows the
detonation. Modern heads
and pistons are designed with squish and
quench areas which provide
additional turbulence [ squish ] and also attempt
to remove excess heat from
the intake charge [quench ].
I was reading an article about a F1 team some years ago that actually
heated
the fuel to improve vaporization in their turbo cars. It's my opinion
that one of
the reasons Propane is so effective is that is provides a
more homogenious
air/fuel mixture. Propane is already a gas and thus does not
need to vaporize.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:31:40 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Hey it was good to come in with the book definitions, but pls step a
bit
more carefully with the words. The kindergarten bit didn't give you
a warm
welcome in my eyes... just my 2hp.
The reasons these discussions go on for so long like so is bc no one goes
to
the books. I have my ICE book sitting right here that I could
reference all
the time, but don't bc the ppl on here make it
interesting. Its fun to
battle, in a sense. But on the other
hand, I think we all need to start
using that word a bit more - think.
Too many of us are speaking with
conviction, myself included, when we aren't
backing it with fact.
The stuff about turbulence is unrelated to this discussion in
reality
though, as the engine mechanicals are static unless someone is
rebuilding a
motor to avoid knock. The reason I started this discussion
was to explore
what exactly we're seeing with a knock sensor, so that tuning
can be better
founded around that signal. I'm going with colder plugs
as I believe that
they are my cause of knock, but I'm still purplexed by the
'decaying' nature
of the knock signal many of us are seeing.
Keep up the good work gentlemen (and ladies?? any ladies out there??
=)
007
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:55:57 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
I thought the kindergarten comment was kind of funny, plus it had the
additional element of having a ring of truth.
Turbulence is most definitely related to detonation which is the main
reason
for our knock sensor. As to whether the sensor can detect preignition
is
still open to question and I'm not sure we have that information
available.
The TIM refers to it as being tuned to detect knock. There have
been multiple
discussions about what the sensor sees and reports --- no one
has come
up with a replacement or a reliable alternate way to detect
knock/detonation.
While the engine design is generally fixed we still have a lot of ways to
control
detonation --- base timing, intake charge temp, alcohol/propane,
boost, fuel.
Your switch to colder plugs is to correct what you think is a
pre-ignition
problem --- If it eliminates the knock sensor reading we'll have
some additional
info about what the sensor reports as knock.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:10:50 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Recall and Red Line oil
I have been using redline MT90 and 75-90 just as Bob does. No
problems. I
have used redline auto trans fluid for years in my 535i
bmw. No problems. I
think the dealer is out to lunch. Why don't you
email redline and see what
they say about what the dealer says. They may help
you out.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:19:00 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Nicely put. To add one thing, it is the vibration that detonation
causes that the knock sensor picks up (because the vibration causes the
pressure waves that cause the change in eletrical charge), and not necessarily
the audible knock itself. Perhaps the name of the damn thing should be
changed to detonation sensor, rather than the misleading "knock" sensor!
:-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:55:09 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Right, but part of this discussion is regarding -what- does the knock
sensor
pick up. I've heard cases of false knock, and I've also heard
ppl say it
picks up lifter tick and hammers hitting the block, etc. So
when I replace
my plugs soonly, we'll find out if pre-ignition is picked up,
bc I can't say
I've ever had detonation in my car but surely can rack up a
good 10-20 count
on the datalog when I'm running hot. So if it picks up
more than
detonation, calling it something besides a detonation sensor would
be wise..
like maybe knock?
I'm sure somewhere the 3dB cutoff frequencies for the bandpass filter
are
available, so that we can see what exactly the sensor is looking
at
(frequency wise at least).
007
------------------------------
Ok, here's a thought that crossed my mind in the wee hours of the
morning
while I was prioritising a list of performance upgrades to get for my
96
3000gt base. Do they make superchargers for our cars? I've already
priced
turbo kits, but I can't find a supercharger for the base models.
I've
thought about getting a VR4 or just buying a whole new engine, but
it
doesn't seem to fit into my budget. It's more cost efficient to upgrade
the
old engine. My final question comes out to, what will give me the most
HP
for my money? I've been told that the superchargers can put out boost
sooner
than the turbos, but I heard turbos can put out more boost than
the
superchargers. It seems I have a massive dilemma on my hands. Well
I
appreciate whatever advice anyone can lend. thank you.
tom
p.s.- off the topic......doesn't it feel good to crush those little 4
banger
retards that pull up to the light and rev their engines at our cars
like
they're ever going to win? Personally I get a very large amount
of
satisfaction in looking at their disappointed faces through my rear
view
mirror as my tail lights fade out of their view. muahahahahha
>=) hahaha
sorry just felt a need to share.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:25:49 -0700
From: "Guy, Michael (CS)" <
michael.guy@ngc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: turbo vs. supercharger?
RIPP Modified just came out with a Supercharger for the SOHC. I want to
say
that is what is in your car. Currently there is a Group Buy going on for
the
headers which are nessary for the SC on 3si.org I think the
RIPP
Supercharger is going to $3600 without the fuel upgrade, which is
also
nessary.
Knight also makes a supercharger for the SOHC and DOHC, but I have
heard
both good and bad about those. Not sure on a price
Turbo will boost more than a supercharger, but the supercharger will
give
you constant boost throughout the whole RPM range, where a Turbo has
to
spool, and then you see boost, granted it is more boost than an SC.
As for the turbo upgrade, it is some kind of ungodly expensive. I've
read
threads ranging from $4000-$8000 and then nothing is a sure thing,
and
something may break and cost even more. The turbo guys here will tell
you
about how often they have to do the routine maintance.
On another note. Go to the 3si.org site and do a Search for Turbo
vs.
Supercharger. Or do both names and read some of the threads that have
come
out. Also do a search on the screen name 'Spawn' on the 3si forum board.
He
has the RIPP Modified SC on his 96 3kgt Base ATX.
Hope this helps.
Mike
92 Stealth SOHC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:31:39 -0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
All there discussions prompted me yesterday to get off my comfy chair
and
walk over to the other end of the office suite and talk to the engine
guys.
They are more clueless than we are as far as tuning for
maximum
performance. But they gave me some verbal confirmation to what we
have come
up with here so far.
Pre-ignition and post-ignition are variations of auto ignition (no
spark
needed). Pre-ignition may cause detonation. They confirmed
that
pre-ignition cannot be noticed with a regular knock (detonation)
sensor
unless followed by a detonation. Detonation vibration frequency is the
same
as the natural frequency of the combustion chamber.
Apparently they are more concerned with pre-ignition than with
detonation.
They said you can run small amounts of detonation for very long
time
without any damage, but a severe pre-ignition car blow up the engine
within
only 100 cycles (about 2-3 seconds). Engines are tuned for detonation
and
not for pre-ignition. Pre-ignition is just something that they run a
test
for it when everything is done and they need to select a spark plug of
a
proper heat range.
I suspect racing engineers would be more concerned about detonation,
since
pre-ignition is easily fixable with cooler spark plugs and detonation
is
not.
There is some info about the stock 3S detonation sensor in the STIM on
the
Team3S website under Fuel System - Sensors - Detonation. I do not have
the
exact URL but it goes something like
team3s.com/***
***/STIM91/Images/tim_14-09.gif
It's a narrow-band sensor,
which it tuned to the engine block (or
combustion chamber) natural frequency
and should not see anything except
detonation.
It is nice to have someone new on this list who is not shy to look up
stuff
in the book. Welcome, old poop 2! :-) We need some new blood on this
list.
The engine guys in my office also had to look up some stuff that we
talked
about. They used Fundamentals of Internal Combustion Engines by
Heywood -
that's their Bible.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:50:00 -0500
From: "Jesse Rink" <
jrink-3si@wi.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: boost leak causing me problems?
Hey gang,
Was hoping someone can help me out. Let me give you my
mods real quick so
you have a better idea how to diagnose this. I'm
currently running
Intake/Exhaust, 550cc injectors, Walbro 341 hotwire, HKS
AFR, and HKS EVC IV
on stock 9b turbos. No EGT Gauge.
I just installed my new fuel setup recently and am trying to tune the
car
appropriately on the AFR controller. However, I'm having problems
with
knock (I use a pocketlogger). It seems kind of random, and I can't peg
it
down. I'm begining to think it's a result of a known boost leak I
have, as
the knock occurs randomly anytime I seem to boost above
.75bar. My O2s look
fine in the .94-.96 range. Is it possible my
boost leak is the problem
here? I definitely don't see it being lack of
fuel. I'm leaning towards
getting this boost leak fixed before messing
around with this anymore. I
get no knock at boost levels under .75 bar,
but anything over that and I
tend to hit 6-12 knock counts.
I'm thinking, with 9bs, because they can only hold boost until roughly
4500
rpms before falling off, once I reach 4500 rpms I could start leaning
out my
AFR, however things just are flakey... The boost leak I think
needs to get
fixed to help tune my AFR properly.
Anyone out there running upgraded injectors with stock turbos and an
AFR
controller? Maybe we could compare settings... Just a
thought.
Feedback? Thanks...
Jesse Rink
Eagle, WI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:05:53 -0400
From: Lesperance LCpl Thomas J
<
LesperanceTJ@2MAWBFT.usmc.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: on topic P.S to turbo vs. supercharger?
p.s- My model is a DOHC for anyone wondering what adress they should give
me
pending what's applied to my engine.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:06:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jim Floyd <
jim_floyd7@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition - knowck loging
Is there any way to change out the ECU for the '95 to an earlier ECU to get
data log capability ?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:15:27 -0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Yeah, I kinda agree. If we would all start quoting from the Bible, then
the
discussions would be dry and would die out pretty fast. But, on the
other
hand, it would be helpful to check in the book before stating
something
weird. That would save us all some time and help get to the truth
sooner.
Technical part of the post: Hmmm...hmm... Oh yeah, so would anyone like
to
spend $1099 per spark plug that has a pressure transducer built in it
to
really know if you have detonation or pre-ignition?
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:19:31 -0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition - knowck loging
Yes, perhaps, maybe.... This was discussed on Team3S before, not that
long
ago, and there are some projects in the works but nothing has
been
completed yet as far as I know.
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:26:45 -0700
From: "Guy, Michael (CS)" <
michael.guy@ngc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: on topic P.S to turbo vs. supercharger?
There was another guy on 3si. He bolted to 9b stock turbos to his DOHC
NA,
put on an Intercooler and did some other minor mods along with the CPU
and
fuel setup.
I think his name was MitsuMan or something along those lines. He might
be
able to help you too.
Mike,
92 Stealth SOHC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:29:43 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition - knowck loging
ANYTHING is possible, I've seen a 3kGT turned into a Supra... don't
ask..
I think it would require a ridiculous amount of work, as I'm fairly
sure
that OBDII has a very different wiring harness. So rip up the
harness,
rewire a few things, maybe add/subtract a few sensors, and
whoila! But
there HAS to be a way to record data from the ECU, if you
can slap a Snap-On
computer onto it then there has to be a way to make a
datalogger, IMO.
007
------------------------------
I strongly disagree about dry discussions. What about all the sex,
murder, and wars in the Bible, not to mention miracles and stuff? Hell, we
could probably start some real flame wars on this list if we started quoting
from the Bible!
Technical content:
Just got my rebuilt transmission (paid for by the warranty company!) in my
'94 VR4.
1. It to the implied threat of legal action to get them to
acknowledge responsibility for the bad synchros, but they did come
through.
2. Their first attempt was to order a "rebuilt" transmission from a
salvage company in the Pacific Northwest. Although the supplier claimed it
was "rebuilt" and not "used", the case had paint sprayed over grease and a torn
dust boot indicating that if it was "rebuilt" they didn't bother to clean the
case or replace the boot. When installed it was in worse shape than my old
one.
3. The warranty company had the "rebuilt" transmission sent
back. They said they chose that company because they wanted a one-year
warranty on the rebuilt transmission. I think Kormex supplies a shorter
warranty. There was also some discussion about what internal parts
constitute a proper rebuild.
4. Anyhow, we got to go back to the local rebuilder. Previously
reliable, the rebuilder developed problems getting the right parts, all the
parts, and then had trouble being contacted. It appears he may have been
hiding from someone, maybe an unhappy customer or someone he owed money. Anyhow,
finally he finished the job.
5. My shop reinstalled the tranny, with a couple of minor
problems. First, I have a GReddy high flow intake, which unlike the
K&N, has no support bracket. That coupled with the DSM BOV that hangs
out cause an interference with the 6 speed shift linkages. Correcting this
with tiewraps resolves the interference. The tranny shifts like
butter!
6. All that's left is to fix the oil pressure guage - must have a
disconnected wire form the sending unit, and the aero, which implies he put the
air dam back on wrong (been there, done it got the t-shirt). It'll be nice
to get it back on the track in a couple of weeks.
7. Oh, yeah, also got a new clutch out of the deal. Also got a still
functional an old clutch pressure plate that is painted blue. Anybody know
the manufacturer of a blue pressure plate? I'll probably give it away,
free to good home.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:53:10 -0400
From: "Bedrock" <
r.bedrick@comcast.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Datalogger Software
I purchased the datalogger cable from Chris Dooley about three months
ago.
It didnt come with software but I did find and download it to my PC,
now
that I need it I cant find it. I cant remember the site, any help would
be
appreciated.
Bob
White/Red 91 RT/TT, Original at 140,000+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:05:13 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Help again tranny gurus!
Phillip,
I thought in an earlier post he had claimed to have already remove
this
plate and ball bearings.
Donald,
If you have not removed this, Phillip is absolutely right, the shift
forks
will not come out until this plate is removed. If you need more
details
about this, see John Adam's site (
http://www.vr4stealth.com/ )and look
in
the transmission area of the site. (the third pic down from the top of
the
page shows you what we're talking about)
let us know what happens.
- -Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:16:37 -0400
From: "Bedrock" <
r.bedrick@comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Datalogger Software
I found the TurnerStein software, is this ok to use with his
cable?
Bob
White/Red 91 RT/TT, Original at 140,000+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:48:01 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: turbo vs. supercharger?
Or you could always keep your car, and buy a DSM for less than
$3600,
get turbo and AWD, and spend just a few hundred making it run
13's...
Or spend that $3600 on a upgrade for the DSM and get her in the
11's...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:48:01 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: turbo vs. supercharger?
Hope you aren't talking about the 3/S lil' brother, the DSM... I have
a
n/a 3000GT, and stock to stock is a decent race with a DSM, but add
even
an exhaust or boost controller to the DSM, and it will easily walk
away
from a n/a 3000... (I own both)
On a side note, looks like the upgraded turbo, intercooler, and
manifold
are all coming a little sooner than I expected... on the way home
from
work the other day, the lil 14b seized, so I just ordered a Super
20G
(td05/td06, 10cm hotside), tubular o2 housing, evo3 manifold -
ported,
Road Race Eng. Front Mount IC, and I already have all the
rest
supporting mods...
Gonna be a fun day when I get all this installed - estimated time,
2
weeks, I wanna be up and running by "Clash of the Titans" the end
of
this month...
www.texasracingscene.com is
sponsoring the "TRS
Invitational" - gonna find out who the fastest
street cars in the area
are...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:52:06 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: boost leak causing me problems?
In my DSM, I had ALL KINDS of problems with leaks on the hot side...
the
manifold was cracked (small) in three places, and two bolts
backed
themselves out... I had the weirdest knock issues and tuning
issues...
- -Cody
------------------------------
same here. my GSX had three broken studs for holding the exhaust
manifold on. I successfully extracted two before my drill wandered into
the head and I got to purchase and rebuild a used head.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:56:49 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
We forgot that our knock sensor and ECU also perform the
pinking
function. (ain't that cute?)
So I would have to say, yes it does
detect pre-ignition.
Not specific to our cars, but the below does apply to
us.
http://www.autotechnical.co.uk/engman/sen-ks.html
The knock sensor is fitted to check the ignition timing at the
optimum
moment. An engine gives it's maximum power if the ignition timing is
on
the pinking limit. During pinking a specific vibration frequency is
set
up in the engine of approx. 7.5 kHz. A knock sensor recognises
this
specific vibration and passes a signal to the control unit. This
sensor
signal is raised by a piezo-crystal.
Piezo is a material
that raises an electric current if it comes under
mechanical pressure. The
higher the pressure, the higher the current
produced. Using this sensor the
engine management system can recognise
the pinking of the engine and adjust
as necessary the ignition timing
together or separately for each cylinder.
Most systems control the
ignition timing by pinking in steps of approx. 3
degrees to retard. If
the engine no longer pinks, the ignition timing
in stages of approx. 0.5
degrees will be advanced until the normal value.
Skyrider
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:00:29 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
Although that may be true, other things can cause the knock sensor
to
detect knock. For instance, lifter tick has been shown to create
fake
"knock". A variety of other things as well. Bad motor mounts
have also
been a cause.
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:27:44 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: on topic P.S to turbo vs. supercharger?
Yes, I think this is the way to go, ie add 9B turbos.
Due to higher
initial compression ratio in the non-turbo, you have to
limit boost to
probably 5-6 psi. But the turbo convert with scavenged
parts is the only way
to 'somewhat' economically convert the NA.
I opted out for the 'buy a turbo' conversion. If you like a
challenge,
you will likely get huge satisfaction in doing either a SC or TT
conversion,
but very likely some really big headaches along the way.
Skyrider
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:11:41 -0400
From: Roger Lee <
rcleeny@optonline.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Crankshaft pulley
Of all the rotten luck! Power steering belt broke and wraped itself
around
the crankshaft pulley - breaking it of course.
Any help on removing the pulley? The manual calls for special tools
which I
don't have. Any suggestions to make the job easier would
help.
Roger Lee
'94 Stealth R/T Luxury (1 of 184)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:57:46 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Crankshaft pulley
You need a harmonic balancer puller at a minimum.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:10:24 -0500
From: "Steve" <
denon11@insightbb.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Crankshaft pulley
Steve
Artic White 1995 3000GT SL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:56:40 -0500
From: "Canney, Charles C" <
charles.c.canney@lmco.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Crankshaft pulley
If your crank pulley is already broken, this advice is probably
doesn't
matter.
I had a bear of a time getting the crank bolt loose, to the point
of
guessing the threads might be left hand, but they are not. The bolt is
just that
tight and/or glued in with locktite. I made a three foot long tool
with a plate on
one end. Imagine the plate shaped like an outline of the figure 8 cut
in
half (top to bottom), the straight side welded parallel to one end of the
3' bar
and two holes drilled through the bulbous parts. Two long bolts (and
here is the
tricky part) bolted or welded to the plate such that they line up with
the
two factory holes in the pulley, on each side of the crank bolt. Even on
jack
stands, the tool reached the ground (which doesn't move) leaving both
hands free for
the breaker bar on the crank bolt (accessible if your figure 8
has a skinny
enough waist).
Another key detail is to make sure the bolts you use don't thread into the
holes (the holes have no threads), the bolts
are only to be used as pins but
if they fit so tight that you thread them in,
you can easily break the cast
iron hub of the pulley (as me how I know). Once the
crank bolt is off, the
balancer/pulley should just pull off by hand, no other
tools needed.
good
luck,
CharlesCanney
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:41:24 -0400
From:
pvg1@daimlerchrysler.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: Detonation, Preignition, and Post-ignition
I bet a sixpack of beer that this "pinking" is British for "pinging",
which
is the same as knock and the same as detonation. If you substitute
every
occurrence of "pinking" with detonation it all starts to make sense. He
is
trying to describe the detonation control algorithm.
It all makes sense, except, of course, the part about looking for
ignition
timing at the optimum moment. The most common narrow-band knock
sensor does
not see normal combustion. If you hook up a good oscilloscope to
the knock
sensor you will not see much until detonation occurs. Narrow band
sensors
(like on our cars) just do not see regular combustion or
pre-ignition
(early combustion) unless it is accompanied by detonation.
"This sensor signal is raised by a piezo-crystal".
The piezo-chrystal is
the one that produces the signal, not the one that
amplifies it.
"Piezo is a material..."
Piezo is not a material. I think it is called a
prefix or something. This
is the third clue so far about the level of
knowledge of this clown who
wrote this website.
No new news here, but I agree that it was very cute. :-)
Philip
- -------------------------------------------------------
We forgot that our knock sensor and ECU also perform the
pinking
function. (ain't that cute?)
So I would have to say, yes it does
detect pre-ignition.
Not specific to our cars, but the below does apply to
us.
http://www.autotechnical.co.uk/engman/sen-ks.htmlThe
knock sensor is fitted to check the ignition timing at the optimum
moment. An
engine gives it's maximum power if the ignition timing is on
the pinking
limit. During pinking a specific vibration frequency is set
up in the engine
of approx. 7.5 kHz. A knock sensor recognises this
specific vibration and
passes a signal to the control unit. This sensor
signal is raised by a
piezo-crystal.
Piezo is a material that raises an electric current if it
comes under
mechanical pressure. The higher the pressure, the higher the
current
produced. Using this sensor the engine management system can
recognise
the pinking of the engine and adjust as necessary the ignition
timing
together or separately for each cylinder. Most systems control
the
ignition timing by pinking in steps of approx. 3 degrees to retard.
If
the engine no longer pinks, the ignition timing in stages of approx.
0.5
degrees will be advanced until the normal value.
Skyrider
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#229
***************************************