Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Sunday, July 27 2003     Volume 02 : Number 213
 

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:29:14 -0500
From: "Richard Fennell" <realmstl@charter.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: Oil pump failed(?)

First things first, I'd try changing the oil and filter

I just rebuilt the engine in my Conquest and when the oil breaks down, I
have similar symptoms.  I've just started using Mobil One, so we'll see how
long it lasts.  Using conventional oil, it would break down around 500miles.
During idle, my mechanical oil pressure gauge would start to flutter and
drop off.

I'd also look for crimped oil cooler lines.  Who knows what those mechanics
did during the TC replacement.

Rich

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:02:32 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil pump failed(?)

Hi Jeff,

You obviously have a low oil pressure. If could be because the pump is not
doing its job or because there is an internal oil leak somewhere in the
engine that does not allow the oil pressure to build up. I wish we could
put a flow meter in the oil cooler line to tell for sure.

I sense that you can't tell for sure if it is a valvetrain noise or rod
knock. A set of more experienced ears would be able to make a more certain
conclusion.

There is a test that identifies rod knock. Those who have done it, help me
out here. IIRC, you just remove the spark plugs, crank the engine with the
starter and the noise should be louder because there is no compression to
keep the connecting rods compressed and they clunk louder. A stethoscope
could help too.

I tend to think that this is more serious than the oil pump since the noise
does not go away completely at higher RPMs when the pressure should build
up. Where is your oil pressure gauge needle at idle and at 2500 rpm?

Did the dealer touch the engine at all? Like an engine oil change or
something?

Sorry about that experience. I got my recall notice yesterday. I can
inspect my own transfer case and replace oil in it. There is no way I am
taking my car to the dealer, but that is the only way to get a new and free
transfer case though if I need one.

Philip

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 13:55:08 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

I would check all your suspension connections, parts, joints, etc....that's
were you problem will be....oh and put a good alignment and high speed (on
the car) balancing on it.

regards,
terry

"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing - www.grd4spd.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:19:54 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch replacement options

> On some people are reporting the discs exploding and
> destroying the transmission bellhousing.

not good.


> The other complaint is that they
> are noisy and make nasty grinding noises.

the owners or the clutches?  ;)


> I have the RPS Turbo Carbon Claw stage 3 with 6-puck ceramic
> friction plate and sprung hub.  It works really good at the track, is a
little
> touchy on the street.

most puck style clutches will be aggressive in nature.


> Longevity is supposed to be around 10,000 miles so
> that's not a great selling point for it.

it may not be a good selling point but I'm glad my TRD "Kevlar" (not) puck
clutch which was made by RPS only lasted 10-12K, what a total POS that
product was.


> Up to about 450hp the ACT clutch is a decent choice.

the ACT kits in 4 and 6 puck trim do not have sprung hubs, this is good if
you want to destroy your driveline/tranny, additionally the backpressure and
pedal effort is terribly high....that's ok if you don't care about abusing
your clutch system and left leg


> You should also look at South Bend Clutches - they are getting
> involved with 3S cars and seemed very interested in helping us
> out at the National Gathering.


SB Clutch (among others) likes to reverse engineer CM clutches....they got
hit hard by Clutch Masters for making (cheap) knock-offs of the CM
kits....hey if you are going to copy a product, copy the best (CM) but at
least make your copy better than the one you are copying.   ;)

regards,
terry

"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing - www.grd4spd.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:27:12 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch replacement options

What's wrong with using a stock clutch?
I just road race. See mods below.
Rich

Rich/Slow Old Poop
1994 3000GT VR4 with:

Ground Control suspension
Eibach springs
camber plates
GAB front struts
front and rear sway bars
Porsche Big Red calipers
Speed bleeders
SS lines
Motul fluid
cryogenically treated stock rotors
brake cooling fans
water injection to brakes
Alamo intercoolers
Stillen downpipe
custom cat back single side exhaust (loud!)
Blitz DSBC
Supra fuel pump
aftermarket boost gauge
Blitz BOV
K&N
Milli Miglia wheels w/Michelin Pilot street tires
Stock chromies with Kuhmo V700 race tires

Probably 400+ hp. 13.1 @ 105 mph

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:36:20 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Clutch replacement options

> What's wrong with using a stock clutch?

nothing.  :)

regards,
terry

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:42:40 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking Problem

>> Only two rotors are suitable for our cars: Porterfield and stock ...

Rich, Good to hear you like the PowerStops. Because that is what the
Porterfield rotors were for years! Anybody that ordered JBR 582, JBR 583,
JBR 584, JBR 585, JBR 785, or JBR 786 rotors got PowerStops. :)

Search the archives for the many, old discussions on this issue.

Now I wonder where Brembo, Brembo/Porsche, AP Racing, and Alcon rotors rate
on your list. No better than stock?

The Brake Upgrade Guide for our cars:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakeupgrade.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:29:42 -0400
From: David Friedlander <forzion@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Ball Joint Replacement

Hello folks--

I have a '94 SL and need to install new ball joints. Seems like they're
pressed into the lower arm assembly by Mitsubishi and are NOT available
as a separate piece. Do I really need to lay out $300 per lower arm
assembly or is there a way to buy and install a ball joint? Doesn't look
like ANY Mitsu model allows the owner to replace just a ball joint!
Anyone know a less expensive alternative?

Dave Friedlander
Maine

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:38:54 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking Problem

>Rich, Good to hear you like the PowerStops. Because that is what the
Porterfield rotors were for years! Anybody that ordered JBR 582, JBR 583,
JBR 584, JBR 585, JBR 785, or JBR 786 rotors got PowerStops. :)

But no more, I take it. Now, I understand they are "scrap steel rotors."
That still leaves us with stock and Porterfield as the only suitable stock
rotor replacements.

>Now I wonder where Brembo, Brembo/Porsche, AP Racing, and Alcon rotors
rate on your list. No better than stock?

I don't think any of those rotors are available as a stock rotor
replacement. You gotta buy a whole kit, which includes a new caliper. I
don't think Tommy Williams (who started this discussion in the first place)
wants to pay $3500 for a set of Brembo rotors and calipers -- plus a new
set of 18 in. wheels and tires to clear the calipers -- just to solve his
warped rotor problem. Sheesh, that's five large!

But even if some version of those rotors was available as a stock rotor
replacement, they are still no better than a stock rotor that has been
cryogenically treated for $20, or a Porterfield that has been treated.

Of course those are good rotors, but not better than stock. Or, even if
they are a teensy bit better, they ain't that much better to justify their
outrageous price.

After all, what do you want a rotor to do? Stop the car and don't warp.
Even better, stop the car, don't warp, and last through two or three sets
of pads without requiring a turn! The stock rotors (when cryogenically
treated) will do that. I regularly go through two sets of race pads and a
set of street pads before wearing down a rotor, and it never warps.

You can certainly argue that the Brembo, et al, are better suited for
racing, but that is not what's at issue here. Tommy Williams did not ask
about racing (Although I am prepared to argue the benefits of stock rotors
in that case too).

Rich/slow old poop/somebody stop me!

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:48:56 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

NEVER balance tires on the car!  There is absolutely no reason to do
this, and CAN/WILL harm drivetrain components...

- -Cody

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:54:43 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

> NEVER balance tires on the car!  There is absolutely no reason to do
> this, and CAN/WILL harm drivetrain components...

why and how?

regards,
terry

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:28:50 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

Spinning one tire/wheel on the car at high rates of speed in relation to
the others on the car will cause damage.  One of our own list members
had his center diff replaced by a company due to damage caused by this.
In his case, the rears were on the ground and the fronts were balanced.
There is just no need to do this.  A half shaft isn't big enough in
diameter to need balancing, and rotors should be balanced to start.  So
long as everything is bolted to the hub correctly, nothing can go wrong
between a standard balancing machine and a "on the car" balancer...

- -Cody

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:37:04 -0500
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student)" <bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

How is it that you go about getting your rotors cryogenically treated
anyways? Just go to your local heat treat and plop them on the counter? I
went to work for a semester 2 yrs ago at a corporate heat-treater, Paulo
Products Company, and only one of their 5 plants had cryo capabilities, and
it was still very new and almost unused. There's actually not a lot of
heat-treaters out there w/ cryo capabilities, and a lot of amateur
"back-yard" shops as well... I'm just curious as to how you set this up, as
I'm sure others out there are also, especially in light of your shining
testimonial! Perhaps if people can't hook-up w/ cryo capabilities in their
area, you'd be willing to middle-man for them?
    -b

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:15:44 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

Cody - when I first saw your warning about on car spin balancing, I thought
"why not", but thanks for your explanation.  I agree with you now after
reading it.  At least on our all wheel drive cars I think you are correct in
concluding we could damage part of the drivetrain.  On my two wheel drive
BMW 535i I do on car balancing all the time, but the front axles stop at the
hubs. Thanks for the warning.

Andy

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:35:40 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Braking Problem

At 10:37 PM 7/26/2003 -0500, Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student)
wrote:
>How is it that you go about getting your rotors cryogenically treated
anyways?

I just go to a local shop, Cryogenic Engineering, here in Cedar Rapids.
http://www.cryoeng.com, check the motorsports section.

They make a "run" every couple of weeks for local racers, where they throw
everything into the "soup" -- rotors, pads, engine parts, nuts, bolts,
widgets, whatnots, crew chiefs, you name it. Rotors are $20 each.

Ya can't beat a cryogenically treated rotor.
Not no way, not no how.

> Perhaps if people can't hook-up w/ cryo capabilities in their area, you'd
be willing to middle-man for them?

You could probably ship rotors to them for treatment.
To save on shipping, ask mitsupartsdirect.com to ship new rotors directly
to CE. That'll save on one of the shipping costs. It'll be $90 for a new
rotor plus $20 for treatment plus shipping to CE plus shipping to you. Or
just buy treated rotors from Porterfield. It'd probably work out about the
same.

I can't believe that lil ol' backwards Cedar Rapids (it's not exactly the
end of the world, but you can see it from here) has a cryo shop and nobody
else does. Ask your local roundy round guys where they go.

Rich

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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:53:57 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Cryogenics in your area

> There's actually not a lot of heat-treaters out there w/ cryo
capabilities, and a lot of amateur "back-yard" shops as well...

Let's see, you are at Univ of Missouri Rolla.

Just looking on Google finds cryo shops in Kansas City, Hazelwood, St
Louis, Bridgeton, Frontenac, and all the places that are now treating
trumpets. You even have a 14-in dia tank at Rolla. Just sneak in there some
weekend, and run your rotors.

Anybody looking for a cryo shop should do a search on Google:
"cryogenic treatment", yourstate

Rich

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:25:36 -0500
From: "xwing" <xwing@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Clutch replacement options

I am trying a 'new' clutch package in my 94 for awhile which is working
GREAT.  It slips on street takeoff easily, no judder; yet holds all the
power I've given it so far (up to 127+mph quarter mile) and have a few
thousand miles AND had 35+ drag strip passes on it so far.  I removed it
Tuesday after the 3S NG with the engine (which had one slightly melting top
of piston) and the disc shows low wear, about 0.04" or less off a new stock
disc, so should last a good amount of time _for a clutch being used very
hard_.  With "easy" use could last a LONG time I'd say.

Horsepowerfreaks.com puts it together, and uses a relatively low pressure
ACT 2400lb pressure plate on the Horsepowerfreaks disc, which has a sprung
hub and 6 pucks which are a metal composite.  Usually metal pucks
judder/grab unacceptably but HPF told me it was working great in
their/customers' Supras at over 700 rwhp and drag duty so I tried it.  (They
also have a 2900lb pressure plate, but I wanted to see if I could get away
with the 2400lb unit and so far, so good).  It is great, and is what I will
be using until it wears out or manage to overcome its holding ability, when
I will return to the RPS carbon-carbon double disc clutch.  The RPS over
time
is improved, but I had fractured a carbon disc for the second time so needed
a clutch to put in there while it was getting repaired/updated, so I went
with the HPF setup.
If you get one, tell Horsepowerfreaks I sent you so there will be
happy-happy-joy-joy feelings all around ;)

RPS has a solution to the disc fracturing problem but I don't know if Rob is
incorporating it into all versions yet, as it costs significantly more to do
it that way, and some don't seem to have the fracture issue.  I think the
RPS is still the go-to for max effort highest hp cars.

Jack Tertadian

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:55:02 -0500
From: "Nick" <altieris@tulsaconnect.com>
Subject: Team3S: Check Engine Codes

[Nick] Can anyone tell me where to find the check engine codes for a '92
Stealth R/T n/a?  This is the late '91 production model.
[Nick]
Also, can you tell me how to extract the codes without a thousand bucks in
tools?

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:30:26 -0400
From: Roger Lee <rcleeny@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine Codes

See Jeff's page
http://www.stealth316.com/2-diagcodes91-93.htm

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:53:32 -0700
From: "Chris Winkley & Teri Beaman" <cwinkley@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering update...

Bob...

We're planning a trip to Chile for this fall so another week in the November
timeframe won't work. However, given six to eight months worth of planning,
next spring (March/April) sounds like something I would be willing to take a
week off and drive down south.

FWIW...for our "old poop Rich" and other Team3S racers, there are some of us
who are more interested in perfecting our 1/4 mile runs than going around in
circles, shattering rotors, boiling brake fluid, and plowing fields.   ;-)
Although I have broken a number of mechanical parts running the 1/4 mile
over the last 30 years, I find it much easier (and in the long term, less
expensive) than the cost of rubber, brakes, and potential slamming of a car
into a wall at 100+mph in which case I would have to sell my car. I've never
kept a car that's been in a collision over 10 mph, I don't trust all those
suspension parts, body welds, or the chassis itself after they have been
"tweaked" (or slammed, as the case may be). They can make a car "look" the
same but I'd never trust it at high speeds again.

Looking forward...Chris

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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:30:27 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: help with friends eclipse 1.8L

I have a friend that has a 1994 Eclipse Base Model with the 1.8L engine that
I think had a blown head gasket and was wondering if I
could get some tips and suggestions.

His car overheated the other day, and when I looked at it today, there was
no coolant in the engine or in the overflow.  There was
plenty of oil.  I added coolant and started the engine for a minute or so
and a lot of smoke was puffing out the exhaust.

I pulled the plugs and the 2nd plug from the right was loaded with
anti-freeze.  I also looked in the spark plug hole and could see
anti-freeze in the cylinder.  Otherwise the cylinder looked very clean, no
carbon or anything, just a dull silver look on the top of
the piston.  I cranked the engine with the plug out and green water spit out
of the spark plug hole.

I looked at the other three plugs and they all look fine.  Does this look
like a head gasket problem ?

He doesn't have any service manuals so I am not sure what steps and parts
are necessary to pull the head and replace the gasket. I
know the timing belt will have to come off, but is there special tools or
whatever to do this ?

But, I have the factory service manuals for my car, and we don't have
anything for his car.  So any help is greatly appreciated.  He
is also very young and is not going to keep this car for a long time.  Just
long enough to get a better job and save enough money to
buy a newer car.  So, we want to keep costs to a minimum.

Thanks all
Anthony Melillo
1997 VR-4, Firestorm Red
http://home.sprintmail.com/~anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm

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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #213
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