----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:33:12 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Plug gapping advice
0.034" or 0.032" will prevent spark
blowout up to 1 bar (14.7 psi).
Chuck Willis
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:25:50
-0400
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <
WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Braking Problem
Recently bought PowerStop drilled rotors from The
Brake Warehouse and had
them installed only to get a significant vibration in
the steering wheel
when braking after the first 30 - 40 miles. The
installation shop told me
that the rotors (new) had to be warped so I called
the Warehouse and
explained this. They said it's completely rare for such an
occurrence but
then quickly sent another pair for the front. I again
watched the
installation and proceeded to break in the still new pads with
the second
set of rotors.
The interesting thing now is that I am
getting a vibration when breaking
only when I'm at about 40 MPH. All
other times the breaking is smooth.
Will somebody please advise what the
next step ought to be for solving this
vexing
problem.
Regards,
Tommy
'96 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:05:03
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Plug gapping advice
Short version:
With all new ignition
components I get no spark blowout with copper-core
plugs at 0.040" and 15.5
psi (15Gs, 550 inj, ARC2, fuel mods, etc.). At 0.9
bar (13 psi) with stock
turbos and fuel setup, I would leave the stock
platinum tipped plugs at the
factory gap, ~0.040". The platinum-tipped plugs
should spark much easier
(less misfires) than the copper plugs.
Long version:
After having
miserably failing my first Colorado emissions test (HC ppm too
high, above
300 ppm) I decided that the ignition was the problem. I could
see on the
timing light that there were misfires - irregular strobe pulses
plus the rpm
display would show ~1400 (our wasted spark system) then an
occasional ~700
(misfires).
I replaced:
- - the 2000-mile old copper core plugs
(gapped at 0.028") with the same but
new (NGK BCPR6ES-11) gapped at 0.040"
(1.02mm),
- - the (crappy in my opinion) Magnacor ignition wires with
MSD
Low-Resistance ignition wires (8-cyl kit, very nice, very easy to crimp,
web
page soon),
- - the coils with new factory coils (old ones checked
out OK), and
- - the power transistor with a new factory unit (old one
checked out OK).
The plugs and wires eliminated the misfires. I think the
coils and pwr
transistor smoothed out the idle timing a little. However, the
"jittery" rpm
recorded on the TMO datalogger and displayed on the timing
light persists
(plus I installed a new CAS a few months ago). The quest for a
solution
continues ... . [On a side note, the dial back timing light showed
~30º
advance at warm idle, just like the TMO datalogger showed! Maybe the TMO
is
not wrong after all.]
Anyway, I am running 15.5 psi boost (here in
CO where baro pressure is 12
psi) with no spark blowout that I can feel
(15Gs, 550 inj, ARC2, fuel mods).
I left the copper-core plugs at 0.040"
gap to increase required spark
voltage in the hope it would help the engine
pass the emissions test (better
mileage would be a bonus). Larger gaps will
produce a stronger spark and
theoretically a cleaner burn. See my web page
below for more details.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htmI
did pass the emissions test on the third attempt, ~100 ppm HC with a 220
ppm
pass limit. I had to richen the mixture a little to achieve a steady
high
idle (~2500 rpm).
I am now talking myself into the opinion that wider
(that is, the stock) gap
is best. If spark blowout (which are misfires)
occurs, the cheap solution
would be to reduce the gap. However, the correct
solution is to improve the
ignition system. As I raise boost above 15.5 and
get knock under control, I
plan to address any spark misfire issues with a
Kenne Bell Boost-A-Spark
(puts more voltage into coils under boost to get
more voltage out of coils).
Alternatives would be better coils (not for me,
no room in my engine bay),
or even replacing the power transistor unit with a
capacitive discharge (CD)
system (not for me either) and better
coils.
Bottom line: with all new ignition components, no spark blowout
with
copper-core plugs at 0.040" and 15.5 psi (street trim without
WI).
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:10:15
-0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Braking Problem
Welcome to the world of "scrap steel
rotors".
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:37:28
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Braking Problem
Of course, Geoff isn't serious because he
knows Porterfield rotors used to
be, and maybe still are, the PowerStop
rotors. :)
I have had PowerStop rotors on my street-only driven '92 TT
for 4 years. No
warping problems, no brake vibration, no 10 in a row panic
stops, no track
use.
I am not sure what Tommy's brake solution is, but
claming PowerStop as some
sort of crappy rotor by nature and design is
incorrect and not helpful.
Several factors may cause "braking shake". An
irregular rotor surface is
only one. But one that can be easily checked by
measuring flatness or runout
(cold and hot).
Jeff Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:36:49
-0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Braking Problem
> Of course, Geoff isn't serious because
he knows Porterfield rotors used to
be, and maybe still are, the PowerStop
rotors. :)
- ---
I dunno if they were, or are. I just know ppl don't
have those issues with
PF rotors..since you brought it up.
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler
orders@speedtoys.comTeam3S/3Si.org
Vendor approved brake discounter; also,
parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW,
Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo.
Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :)
"If its in stock, we have
it!"
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:04:24
+0000
From:
mjannusch@comcast.netSubject: Re:
Team3S: Plug gapping advice
> The platinum-tipped plugs should spark
much
> easier (less misfires) than the copper plugs.
Last time I
checked, copper was a better conductor than platinum. Why would
the
platinum-tipped plugs spark easier than copper plugs? I was under
the
impression the platinum tips were just for longevity and no other
reason.
All things considered, I'd figure they would perform about the
same overall.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:28:35
-0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Plug gapping advice
I believe that because of its density, pure
platinum has a higher arc-over
voltage than copper does. Also, some
believe that most imports run better
with a platinum plug. The reason
usually given has to do with the material
of the cylinder head and engine
block and the plug's ability to properly
ground.
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:12:59
-0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Plug gapping advice
The precious metal tipped plugs spark
easier for one simple reason that has
nothing to do with the metallurgy. The
center electrode diameter is smaller.
In this case, the small platinum disc
on the tip of the "platinum" NGK PFR6J
electrode is a bit less than 1-mm in
diameter. The "copper" NGK BCPR6ES
center electrode tip is almost 2.5 mm in
diameter.
It is the basic reason that platinum tipped plugs are gapped up
at 0.040"
instead of the more typical copper plug gap of maybe 0.035".
Because the
precious metal plugs spark easier, the gap must be widened to
increase the
required spark voltage. The copper plug at 0.040" gap requires
more voltage
to spark than the platinum plug at the same gap, all other
factors equal.
More spark voltage (actual not available) usually means better
combustion, a
cleaner burn, and theoretically more power.
Precious
metal (platinum, iridium, etc) is used only to reduce oxidation and
chemical
erosion of the electrode. It is this metallurgy that provides the
60,000
service interval.
Read my web page below for LOTS of tech info about
spark plugs and a
cross-reference chart for our DOHC engines.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htmJeff
Lucius,
http://www.stealth316.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:47:04
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering '04 update...
That kind of
schedule would be unaffordable. We *must* schedule our Dream
Race Week
to include 1 weekend that will be part of the NASA 2004 schedule.
The plan is
to find out which weekends are available for SPR and LSR, pick
one
that
most of us like, then explore our renting the *other* track for an
adjacent
day, (or 1 or 2 days before/after that weekend). These are
among
the
most popular tracks in the country, and it is about $15,000 to
rent one for
the day - IF it is available when we want it. We can
probably get best
rates
through NASA, but there are other groups and
options open to us. Once we
find
an acceptable range of dates for
Laguna Seca and Sears Point that are within
a
few days of one another, we
are also checking the available dates for a
THIRD
track -
Thunderhill. We can get THill on a weekday for ~$7k,
including
corner
workers, safety equipment and a free hotdog or
something. A 3-track "Dream
Race Week" would be something that people
will want to arrange for a few
extra
days off, if need be.
All 3
tracks are within 5 hours of one another; we could drive to the 2nd
location
in an evening and run events there the following day. To
further
complicate the mix, we already started speaking to a FOURTH track,
the
just-opened Reno-Fernley track (4-5 hrs from the Bay Area, 3 hrs
from
Thunderhill) who want to practically *give* us the track for the day for
all
the press it will get them. (I'll post my Reno track report to the
lists in
a
little while...)
To accommodate members traveling from
the East, I can envision an *ultimate*
4-track scenario as follows:
1)
Weekend travel on I-80 to Reno
2) Tuesday: Open-track @ Reno-Fernley. Drags
in PM.
3) Wednesday: Open-track @ Thunderhill. Drags in PM.
4) Thursday:
Open-track @ Sears Point. Nightlife SF.
5) Friday: Bay Area sights; Travel,
Nightlife Monterey.
6) Sat: HPDE at Laguna Seca. BBQ at track. Nightlife
Monterey.
7) Sun: HPDE @ Laguna Seca.
We'll probably end up with
*only* Laguna Seca and Sears Point on the
schedule,
(with Tues/Wed travel,
Thurs-track1, Fri-drags, Sat/Sun-track2), but we
might
as well "dream" a
little that the other tracks may be added. With the above
*ultimate*
schedule, people who can't get more time off will just run
Thurs-Sun, but
people who can get the time free will run at all 3 or 4
tracks.
Now,
please...
EVERYONE who reads this, who is interested in joining
us:
PICK a target MONTH for 2004, and let's get started.
(March/April?)
[Brief discussions *only* on our Main List, please..., and
we can get more
detailed on the Team3S Racers
List...]
Forrest
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:53:27
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Braking Problem
Maybe you just need to "introduce" the pads
to the rotors.
I would try 4 hard braking stops, from 80-20.
After
they cool down, see if the problem goes away. If so, it was just an
interface
problem -- that is, the surfaces were not completely smooth
and
matched. Now they are.
If not, it could be anything,
including:
Warped rotors
Unbalanced tires
Broken cord/belt in a
tire
Out of alignment
Something worn or loose in the suspension
If
you suspect warped rotors, take them off yourself*, take them to
another
brake shop, and ask to put them on the machine that turns rotors to
measure
the warpage. You don't have to actually get them turned: the shop
(and you)
will be able to see the sucker wobbling. If so, I'd go back to
PowerStop
and demand the return of your money. Or, have them turned down to
remove
the warpage.
By the bye, Geoff was not completely wrong with
his smartass answer of
"scrap steel rotors".
Only two rotors are
suitable for our cars: Porterfield and stock. All the
rest, including Stillen
and PowerSlot especially, are junk. I suspect the
rest are, too. I am not
familiar with PowerStop, but I suspect they fit
into the Powerslot
category.
I buy stock rotors, get them cryogenically treated locally for
$20 each,
and never have a problem with them.
Rich/slow old
poop
*Removing rotors is easy, especially since yours were just put
on:
1. Remove the front wheels
2. Remove the brake pads
3. Unbolt the
calipers (two big bolts in back), remove, then move them out
of the way (Hang
them from the spring with a coat hanger, don't let them
dangle on the brake
lines)
4. Slide the rotor off.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:50:43
-0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: 3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering
'04
update...
It is possible for NASA to run weekday events.
I've been planning one in
Vegas (up to others outside NASA if they wanna do
it in the end) but it is
possible.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:58:34
-0500
From: "
merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering '04 update...
>PICK a
target MONTH for 2004, and let's get started. (March/April?)
Any month in
2004 is good for me.
Would skipping the drags simplify
things?
Rich/slow old poop
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:59:38
-0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering '04 update...
Depends
(tm)
Sears has the Wednesday night drags every week..as long as we
schedule it
on their usually normal schedule.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:04:01
-0400
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <
WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Braking Problem
It's a treat having such knowledgeable
enthusiasts on this message group. I
now got some diagnostics to try
this weekend. I plan to start by
re-balancing the wheels and go from there if
the "re-introduction of the
pads to the rotors" doesn't work. I've
owned one of these cars since their
inception but this is my first VR-4 and
so far no real problems to mention
other than this
issue.
Regards,
Tommy
1996 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:07:34
-0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
3S-Racers: Re: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering
'04
update...
Sounds good. For those unable to make a two weekend full
event, one weekend
could be skipped. Or do just one track day of each
weekend. Spend the
midweek with family vacation plans, or an additional track
day if we can get
midweek.
This might still get a maximum crowd of 3S
cars together, although some
may miss part of the event. I'll volunteer to
lead a Sonoma to Monterey
cruise.
Limited wine tasting along the
way.
I'll do my best to make one of the Nov 03 events, and definitely
will
make and help at any 04 gathering.
Skyrider
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:59:33
-0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering '04 update...
We don't want
to wait in line with a bunch of 16 yr olds. We'll be
scheduling
our
own event, or splitting one with a club.
---Forrest
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:46:02
-0400
From: bob atkins <
ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering '04 update...
If you can put
this type of dream week together, I don't think it matters
what month for
me. Sounds like a 2 - week vacation. A motor home w/ car
on
trailer would be a nice mode of transport.
HMMMM!!!
Badbob from FLA
'99VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:40:40
-0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering
'04
update...
I am all for the early spring. Just not so early that
the easterners have
to drive through snow and ice to get there. It would be
nice to make it the
first big event of the year. Just like the Ocean City
Gathering for the
East Coast. It will get lot of attention and people will be
getting ready
for it starting January.
One possible concern though. A
long trip and several track days in a row
may be a rough first test for some
owners who do not drive their cars in
winters. I think I will be testing my
car before the trip with a week or
two of spirited daily commutes.
:-)
Philip
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:56:08
-0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil pump failed(?)
Help guys!
What are some symptoms of a
failing or failed oil pump?
Here is what I'm
experiencing:
EXCESSIVE valve train noise when the car sits at
idle
Valve noise is reduced if the car is driven
Oil pressure warning
light at >1500 RPM
NO warning light at <1500 RPM
Reduced
performance
When this first started yesterday, I thought for sure that I
had spun a
bearing on the crank, but the more I looked at what was going on,
I thought
OIL PUMP. I checked my timing marks to see that the car had
not jumped
time, it has not...thankfully.
Yesterday, I picked up my
car from the local Dodge dealer with a shiny new
transfer case on it.
I'd love to blame what happened on the morons at the
dealership, but I can't
rationally draw a line between the two. Dammit!
Now, do I replace
the oil pump with a new one from mitsu? How much? Do I
have to go
through mitsu or do you think this is something that I could
safely get at
Autozone/napa/pep-boys? Should I rebuild mine? Has anyone
out
there rebuilt theirs successfully?
As always, any help or advice is
greatly appreciated.
- -Jeff Crabtree
'91 R/T TT(3SI #0499)
2K Jeep
TJ Sport
St. Louis, MO
PS....wouldn't you know it! The one damn
thing I DIDN'T replace during my
rebuild(because it wasn't that old) is the
one thing that had to come back
to bite me in the ass!
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V2
#212
***************************************