Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Friday, July 25 2003     Volume 02 : Number 211




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:05:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: dark@non-corporeal.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shops..

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Michael Gerhard wrote:

>
> >Vacaville Dodge. While the owner seems to be a good guy there is a service
> >rep and manager who are less than helpful. In any case, the overall
> >impression I get is that they do not know much about the Stealth's and
> >would like me to not take it there.
>
> Thanks for the heads up. I live in Martinez and have taken my car to
> Concord Mitsubishi. The original owner (a friend of mine) had the 60k
> service done there and I had the 90k service done there as well. They did
> my transfer case recall. I asked them how many VR4's they had seen prior to
> mine (during the recall) and they had done almost a dozen. Thus, I'm
> thinking that they at least know what these cars are. I have been buying a
> few parts from them as well. I'm thinking that if I'm making a major
> purchase of parts I'll probably check with one of the "good guy" dealers on
> line to get a discount price.
>
> I'm wondering where you live in the area. I'd like to invite you to join
> several of us to a track event. I've been running mostly in the High

I am in Vacaville. As for the events, I can handle my car, but doubt I
could offer much competition. Though it would be fun to go.

> Performance Driving School events at Thunderhill ( www.thunderhill.com )
> where the provide what I think of as the best instruction of any event. The

I have been thinking of taking a high performance course at Infineon, does
anyone reccomend it? I haven't made any choices yet, but I would like to
be able to drive it like I mean it.

> instructors are SCCA race drivers (volunteers) and for $195 we get six 20
> minute sessions, lunch, and a T-shirt (woo hoo). I've liked the Thunderhill
> track as it is fun and safe, very few things to run into. If you are
> interested I'd be glad to give you more information about how it works and
> what I've learned at the schools.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael A. Gerhard     1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4  Pearl White

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:40:44 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $70 0 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

John to be honest the labor was damn high, I have local place that
specializes in High performance cars (particularly DSM's) and they charge
73.50 to customers and I pay 70 (been friends with the 2 of the owner's for
years now).  The hose sounds like you got focking robbed, everything else
sounds like par for the course....


Russ F
CT
93 VR-4
DR 650's and supporting mods (2 weeks and counting till turn key)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:35 PM
To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
Subject: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700
poorer, but at least its fixed :)


Well, I fixed the car at the closest shop I found.  The parts that were
replaced were the slave clutch cylinder and some hose.  The number of
labor hours were 4.5 hours @ $88 / hour, $85 for the hose, $140 for the
slave clutch cylinder, so other fee of $20, they used my oil, and
taxes... so the total cost comes out to something just under $700.  This
sounds like a rip off to me, but I needed the car ASAP, so I didn't want
to bother with fixing it myself (would take too long), and I just took
it at the fist shop I found (some gas station :(.  The car is already
fixed, so I have no choice but to pay these guys, but I am just
wondering by how much I overpaid my little adventure!

John Raicu
94 Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:08:38 -0400
From: "Dennis r. Ninneman" <dninneman@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

What this really calls for is a broad based discussion of the theory
behind plug heat ranges.  Those less schooled in this could benefit. 
Why run different heat range plugs?

Dennis -==- Philly

anthonymelillo wrote:

>I am looking to change the plugs in my 1997 VR-4, and am looking around at options.  I was told that because of the open air filter,
>and the JetChip ECU, I could "use a plug one range colder to help better dissipate heat from the combustion chamber.  If a spark
>plug is to hot it will not dissipate the heat properly and could cause engine damage. The correct heat range spark plug will assist
>the vehicle in burning the fuel more efficiently."
>
>Does this sound like good advice ?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks
>
>My car can be found here with list of mods:
>Anthony Melillo
>1997 VR-4, Firestorm Red
>http://home.sprintmail.com/~anthonymelillo/3000gt.htm

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:31:18 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Fw: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
To: "Dennis r. Ninneman" <dninneman@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

> When you're running a high performance engine the tip of the plug can
> get hot and cause preignition --- cooler plugs have less electrode exposed
> and thus don't get as hot. If they don't get hot enough they will condense
> hydrocarbons on the tip and foul out. Kind of a balancing act to get it
> right. It's easier if you have a race only car because the car is only
> exposed to a high performance environment. A heavily modded street
> car must be able to handle both the daily driving and performance
> applications.
>
>         Jim Berry
> =================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis r. Ninneman" <dninneman@comcast.net>
>
>
> > What this really calls for is a broad based discussion of the theory
> > behind plug heat ranges.  Those less schooled in this could benefit. 
> > Why run different heat range plugs?
> >
> > Dennis -==- Philly

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:45:06 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

> What this really calls for is a broad based discussion of the theory
> behind plug heat ranges.  Those less schooled in this could benefit.
> Why run different heat range plugs?

I think there's already quite a bit of info in the List Archives about plugs
and heat ranges, but I can quick recap the basics...

Essentially the heat range of a plug defines how exposed the insulator
projection is in the cylinder, and how much heat the plug can transfer into
the head and into the coolant.

If you run too hot of a range for your engine's operating characteristics
then the plug will glow hot and be a source of preignition and potentially
detonation.

If you run too cold of a range, the plug itself will not get hot enough to
burn away carbon deposits and it will foul out early and you'll have missing
spark.

The general guide that NGK recommends is to go one number colder for each
100 horsepower over stock that you are running.  That's a pretty general
guide, so really only experience can tell you what actually works in your
car.  For maximum power, you'd want to go with the coldest plug you can that
doesn't foul out - that would prevent as much preignition and detonation as
possible while still providing good plug life.

So far one number cooler is working great in my car.  Some people are
running two numbers cooler.  I have heard mixed results with three numbers
cooler.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:06:41 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

Is your car a daily driver or more of a weekend warrior ????

        Jim Berry
==========================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mjannusch@comcast.net>
>
> So far one number cooler is working great in my car.  Some people are
> running two numbers cooler.  I have heard mixed results with three numbers
> cooler.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:20:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

No.,but the local labor force and the local land rates in Elbbowpit, CA
are not at the level as they are in the LA Basin, or the SF Bay Area
either.

If it was pure market, there'd be a lot of really wealthy shop owners with
really clean shops.

Reality check..there aint...because the raw-materials (parts) ARE the same
prices, you could then argue that the "inflated" costs to the consumer
would generate massive margins for the shopkeepers...that aint the way it
is.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, fastmax wrote:

> I think you'll find the labor rate in West Elbowpit California isn't at the $100 level.
> It's more a matter of whatever the market will bear --- the service department is a
> major profit center for the dealer and if the customer is willing to pay the price
> that's where it'll stay. I don't go to a dealer unless I get my 50% employee discount
> [ my son-in-law works for a dealer ]
>
>         Jim Berry
> ================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> To: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
> Cc: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student)" <bwish@umr.edu>; <iraicu@cs.wayne.edu>; <mi3si@yahoogroups.com>; "Team3S"
> <Team3S@team3s.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)
>
>
> Whos the crook?
>
> The guy tryin to stay in business, or the landlord jackin up rents, the
> elec and gas co jackin up rates, the state spending money like a drunken
> sailor during the stock boom (based on short-term cap gains income)
> instead of planning solely on the standard reliable tax base?
>
> Hmm?
>
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, fastmax wrote:
>
> > Down here in Southern Californey the dealers are up to about $100 per
> > hour --- damn crooks !!!!    Why, back when I was a kid --- before they
> > invented flat rate and cars ยทยทยทยท
> >
> >         Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:25:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shops..

IMHO, the schools are nice, but at the cost..youre better off with the
NASA type track days (The Thill school is VERY affordable, the Jim Russel
types are very expensive).

Trade technical expertise that you'll be lucky to absorb in one day..with
very affordable lengthy track time where you can absorb the same pricibles
at a slower rate..and apply them as required.when youre ready for them.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 dark@non-corporeal.net wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Michael Gerhard wrote:
>
> >
> > >Vacaville Dodge. While the owner seems to be a good guy there is a service
> > >rep and manager who are less than helpful. In any case, the overall
> > >impression I get is that they do not know much about the Stealth's and
> > >would like me to not take it there.
> >
> > Thanks for the heads up. I live in Martinez and have taken my car to
> > Concord Mitsubishi. The original owner (a friend of mine) had the 60k
> > service done there and I had the 90k service done there as well. They did
> > my transfer case recall. I asked them how many VR4's they had seen prior to
> > mine (during the recall) and they had done almost a dozen. Thus, I'm
> > thinking that they at least know what these cars are. I have been buying a
> > few parts from them as well. I'm thinking that if I'm making a major
> > purchase of parts I'll probably check with one of the "good guy" dealers on
> > line to get a discount price.
> >
> > I'm wondering where you live in the area. I'd like to invite you to join
> > several of us to a track event. I've been running mostly in the High
>
> I am in Vacaville. As for the events, I can handle my car, but doubt I
> could offer much competition. Though it would be fun to go.
>
> > Performance Driving School events at Thunderhill ( www.thunderhill.com )
> > where the provide what I think of as the best instruction of any event. The
>
> I have been thinking of taking a high performance course at Infineon, does
> anyone reccomend it? I haven't made any choices yet, but I would like to
> be able to drive it like I mean it.
>
> > instructors are SCCA race drivers (volunteers) and for $195 we get six 20
> > minute sessions, lunch, and a T-shirt (woo hoo). I've liked the Thunderhill
> > track as it is fun and safe, very few things to run into. If you are
> > interested I'd be glad to give you more information about how it works and
> > what I've learned at the schools.
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael A. Gerhard     1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4  Pearl White

- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:53:57 -0400
From: James Matherly <jemather@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch replacement options

Okay, so I got talked into drag racing at the Shootout on Sunday, and
in exchange for burning the hell out of my clutch, I ran a
14.336@94mph, which I don't think is terrible for my first time at the
strip with a 132k mi, 11 year old car.

After this run, though, I got out and smelled nothing but burnt clutch.
   The car is still driveable (it made it the 260mi home and is still
being daily driven), but "ginger" is the operative word.

I'm looking into what I want to do as far as replacing the clutch, and
I was wondering if there were any prevailing opinions.  My car is (and
is going to be) tracked one or two times a year at most, and the rest
of the time will be on the street, and possibly auto-xing once in a
while.  At most, I will probably look to put down about 450-475hp in
the foreseeable future.  With this in mind, I went looking.  One clutch
keeps catching my eye - the RPS Max Carbon-Carbon clutch.

I like this setup a lot because (a) it comes with a new, lighter
flywheel, something I'd probably want to do anyways (b) its designed to
be slipped, which is something I like to do, because I my transmission
and I are friends, and I want to keep it that way. (c) it can be
rebuilt for $200, if I ever somehow manage to burn it out without
melting the bell housing or something, and (d) its carbon-carbon, and
that's cool to be able to tell people.

I talked to MVP Motorsports, and they said that such a setup is
probably overkill for a street car, but the more I think about it, the
more I think that spending the extra $600 or so (the difference between
the C-C and an RPS Street clutch/lightened flywheel) might be worth it
for all of those pluses.  Any thoughts?

Regards,
Ted Matherly
jemather@umich.edu
'92 Stealth TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:29:30 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tracks

>> > instructors are SCCA race drivers (volunteers) and for $195 we get six
20
>> > minute sessions, lunch, and a T-shirt (woo hoo).

At Midamerica Motorplex in Council Bluffs, Iowa, for $50 you get to run all
day Tuesday, from 9 am until sundown, on what is essentially an empty
track. Maybe six other cars in your group are on track at a time. The most
cars we ever had was 20 total, the fewest was 8. We run two groups --
rookies and hot shoes -- for 20 minutes per session. That's about 18
sessions (9 am-9 pm), if you can stand it (one day, before we did sessions,
a Ferrari 348 just ran and ran and ran, stopping only to pee. He musta
cranked off 100 laps).

We are arranging to get instructors, too. They cost about $100 per day, and
one can be shared among several students, or you can take one for yourself
exclusively.

The really wierd part is that most of the cars in our little club are
3000GTs and Stealths. We have M3s, 911s, Z06es, Miatas, Mustangs, Camaros
and other assorted iron, but there are more of us at the ROWG lunch on
Wednesdays (4) than there are of them. We don't always get everybody to the
track, but one Tuesday 3 3000GTs showed up.

Our next event is Tuesday, August 12. Yer all invited, you folks in the
Midwest.

Rich/slow old poop.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Transfer case recall   Leaky Oil

Hi all,

  Yes, today I received a recall notice from Daimler
Chrysler for the transfer case.  Rich Merritt please
note this is about:
 "Oil leakage from the transfer case on 'my Stealth'
may cause the transfer case to fail.  This could cause
the wheels to lock up and result in an accident
without warning."

  Wonder if the Mitsu cars got recalled too.

  Be of good cheer,
  John

=====
Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
'93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/jczoom_619

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:55:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer case recall   Leaky Oil

Ya..wasnt that last summer>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, John Christian wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>   Yes, today I received a recall notice from Daimler
> Chrysler for the transfer case.  Rich Merritt please
> note this is about:
>  "Oil leakage from the transfer case on 'my Stealth'
> may cause the transfer case to fail.  This could cause
> the wheels to lock up and result in an accident
> without warning."
>
>   Wonder if the Mitsu cars got recalled too.
>
>   Be of good cheer,
>   John
>
> =====
> Please respond to jczoom@iname.com
> '93 TT with Porsche brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH  5/97 almost stock
> http://www.geocities.com/jczoom_619
- ---

www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:18:08 -0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem

Actually, a 50 amp hour battery (which is pretty common) would discharge
completely after 500 hours at a 1/10 of an amp drain.  500 hours is about 20
days, but long before the entire battery is drained, the battery will be so
discharged that it will not turn a starter over.  Just a guess but I would
estimate that at 1/10A drain the battery would be good to go, although
partially discharged, for 10-14 days. After that, with over half the charge
gone, I would doubt it would have the ability to turn the starter, although
the headlights might light.

Andy

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of fastmax
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:46 PM
To: Jim Matthews; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem


At 1/10 of an amp the battery should last for a couple of years.
You're probably looking at the radio memory and the security
system. The ECU must have some activity also.

        Jim Berry

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:46:59 -0700
From: "Ken Middaugh" <kmiddaugh@ixpres.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

Hi John,

Sorry to hear of your problems.  Anyway, the slave cylinder from one of the
discounts shops is about $40.  The hose is probably $15-$25.  Labor should
be about 2 hours.

The good news is that it is fixed!  Say hi to your brother.

- -Ken

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ioan Raicu" <iraicu@cs.wayne.edu>
To: <mi3si@yahoogroups.com>; "'Team3S'" <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700
poorer, but at least its fixed :)


> Well, I fixed the car at the closest shop I found.  The parts that were
> replaced were the slave clutch cylinder and some hose.  The number of
> labor hours were 4.5 hours @ $88 / hour, $85 for the hose, $140 for the
> slave clutch cylinder, so other fee of $20, they used my oil, and
> taxes... so the total cost comes out to something just under $700.  This
> sounds like a rip off to me, but I needed the car ASAP, so I didn't want
> to bother with fixing it myself (would take too long), and I just took
> it at the fist shop I found (some gas station :(.  The car is already
> fixed, so I have no choice but to pay these guys, but I am just
> wondering by how much I overpaid my little adventure!
>
> John Raicu
> 94 Yellow TT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:42 PM
> To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
> Subject: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure
>
> Hello again,
>
> ...
>
> Most likely, one of the clutch cylinders (master/slave) was leaking, and
> it just gave up, but I don't understand how could it happen so
> drastically and quick, in a matter of 60 seconds, it went from normal to
> no pressure at all.  If one of these cylinders is leaking and I fill up
>
> ...
>
> John Raicu
> 94 Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:22:32 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem

(new battery)

Test 1 (alarm on):
after sitting for two weeks, not enough power to unlock doors with fob

Test 2 (alarm on):
12.8 VDC evening
12.4 VDC morning

Test 3 (alarm off):
12.83 VDC evening
12.63 VDC morning
12.54 VDC evening
12.45 VDC morning

I haven't measured current with the alarm on because I'm afraid enabling the
alarm will blow my meter (power locks may exceed 10A unfused limit).  Either
way, the battery is discharging too quickly even with it off, so there is
still another problem.  Has anyone else measured draw with everything off,
or know of a published spec?

- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com

       *** Team3S, 3SI #0030, GTOUK #155 ***
      http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R Mk1 (1.0 bar @ 64% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer, Blitz Super Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Optima Red Top 830 Battery
Redline synth fluids (trans= MT-90, xfer & diff= SPHvy)
PF cryoed rotors, R4S pads, SS lines w/SBs, red calipers
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 171 mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 367 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:30:46 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem

Jim, in my Camaro the batt is drained within 2 weeks due to the amp I have
in the trunk. It is remotely switched on but there is just too much drain
from the batt.

My solution was that I got a 4-pole battery (Banner Uni-Bull) where I do
have all the unused accessories on one post that is secured with a 100A
switchable fuse. I then can only pop-up the hood and switch it off. With
this, the car cranked over after 4 weeks without any problem.

What batt did you get in UK ? Maybe the charging system is not in a good
shape (14.4V when the batt is not fully charged and engien running).

There are no values for the amperes that shall flow when everything is off.
Sometimes a single old relais of an alarm system may be faulty and drains
current when it shouldn't.

The normal meters can measure 20A easily. So what you can do is put the
ampere meter in between the minus pole of the batt and the connector. Then
set everything to the status where you want to let sit the car (you can
have the power locks on before putting the meter in between), Pull the
fuses one by one to find out what part is responsible for the drainage.

I bet that it is some current draining over bad ground connections or
something like that.

Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:41:32 -0400
From: Darren Schilberg <dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

And if you don't run colder range plugs on a higher hp engine and/or run too
much boost then your EGTs get way up there and you end up "dieseling" or
compressing the air/fuel mixture into an explosion (like a Diesel engine)
without a spark which, as you can tell, is not ideal for a car that is
supposed to run with a spark.  This can then melt a piston or cause the car to
jump its timing.  This happened to a friend of mine on his VR-4 -- too much
boost due to his ego of trying to catch a car and it cost about $8k for an
engine rebuild.

- --Flash!

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:57:08 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

<<< The car is already fixed, so I have no choice but to pay these guys, but I am just
wondering by how much I overpaid my little adventure!>>


I don't want to be the bearer of bad news.  But I changed my clutch slave cylinder myself.  It costed me under $50 in parts, and took me about 40 minutes total from the time I opened the hood until the time I shut it.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:23:40 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer case recall   Leaky Oil

I, too, got the transfer case recall on my 91 TT.  Actually, I just got my second reminder.  My car was part of the very first leaky transfer case recall back in the early 90's and I had the transfer case replaced.  I've done a good bit to my car since then, including replacing the downpipe with the Alamo one that cost me over $550.  Therein lies the dilemma.   I don't trust ANY dealer mechanic to work on my car.  They've never given me a reason to trust them.  They just manage to screw it up all the time which either ends up costing me more money and aggravation (try telling the dealer they screwed up some time), or time, money and aggravation as I myself try to fix the problems the dealer mechanics created.  So, I am VERY reluctant to take my car in for the transfer case recall primarily (1) because the dealerships are flat rate, (2) because they don't make no money doin' recall work, (3) because I already had the transfer case recall work done years ago (it took the deale!
 r 4 times to get it right) and (4) because I have never had a positive experience at a Dodge dealership.  In fact, they tried 3 times to reseal my transfer case under the first recall and failed. The 4th time they just replaced it while also managing to destroy the flex coupler on my downpipe.  I also had the dealer repaint the front end a few years back after a run-in with a piece of highway rubber, and they painted the fricken thing the wrong color!  I had to tell them that there were 3 different paint formulas for "Pearl White."


<<Hi all,

  Yes, today I received a recall notice from Daimler
Chrysler for the transfer case.  >>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:42:54 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

>> What this really calls for is a broad based discussion
>> of the theory behind plug heat ranges.  Those less
>> schooled in this could benefit. 

Some technical info regarding spark plugs, including heat ranges, heat transfer, and factors affecting plug temperature, is available on my web page below.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-sparkplugtech.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis r. Ninneman" <dninneman@comcast.net>
To: "anthonymelillo" <anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
Cc: "Team 3S List Submissions" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: spark plug hear range question

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:48:23 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

John,

I am not trying to make you feel worse than you probably already do so the information below is just for future reference and for others.

It is unlikely *both* the clutch hose and release cylinder failed. Neither part is a regular maintenance item (I think), meaning they are replaced when they fail, not at regular intervals. That means the shop (likely) replaced an item that was in good working condition. You are entitled to all replaced parts so hopefully you are in posession of either a spare clutch hose or a spare release cylinder.

I have instructions for replacing the clutch hose on my web page below.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-clutchhose.htm

These instructions also could be used to replace the release cylinder. I paid ~$10 for the clutch hose, MR151526, from Tallahassee Mitsubishi, and about $2 for the brake fluid (no need for high-performance fluid in the clutch hydraulic system). Other members have quoted $40-50 for the release cylinder (Tall Mitsu sells MB670290 for AWD cars manufactured after 9102.2 for $48.55 over the phone). I can say it is not a particular hard or time-consuming effort to replace either (having removed the release cylinder during transaxle removal) if you have the right tools ($600 buys a lot of tools).

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ioan Raicu" <iraicu@cs.wayne.edu>
To: <mi3si@yahoogroups.com>; "'Team3S'" <Team3S@team3s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:35 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)


Well, I fixed the car at the closest shop I found.  The parts that were
replaced were the slave clutch cylinder and some hose.  The number of
labor hours were 4.5 hours @ $88 / hour, $85 for the hose, $140 for the
slave clutch cylinder, so other fee of $20, they used my oil, and
taxes... so the total cost comes out to something just under $700.  This
sounds like a rip off to me, but I needed the car ASAP, so I didn't want
to bother with fixing it myself (would take too long), and I just took
it at the fist shop I found (some gas station :(.  The car is already
fixed, so I have no choice but to pay these guys, but I am just
wondering by how much I overpaid my little adventure!

John Raicu
94 Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:49:41 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem

>> Actually, a 50 amp hour battery (which is pretty
>> common) would discharge completely after 500 hours
>> at a 1/10 of an amp drain.  500 hours is about 20
>> days, but long before the entire battery is drained,
>> the battery will be so discharged that it will not
>> turn a starter over.

Actually, the the industry capacity rating of a battery in amp-hours is determined using constant-current discharge over an extended time period with a drawdown to about 10.2 volts, not 0 volts. However, many electronic devices may not operate correctly or at all if voltage drops too much below 11.5 or 12. I would guess a starter might turn at only 10.2 volts but not quickly.

More info on batteries:
http://www.batteryfaq.org/
http://www.stealth316.com/2-dynabatt.htm

Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
To: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>; "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>; "Team3S" <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:04:39 +0000
From: mjannusch@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch replacement options

> One clutch keeps catching my eye - the RPS Max
> Carbon-Carbon clutch.

On 3si.org some people are reporting the discs exploding and destroying the
transmission bellhousing.  I'd wait a while if you really want to go that
route so RPS can get the bugs worked out.  The other complaint is that they
are noisy and make nasty grinding noises.

I have the RPS Turbo Carbon Claw stage 3 with 6-puck ceramic friction plate
and sprung hub.  It works really good at the track, is a little touchy on the
street.  Longevity is supposed to be around 10,000 miles so that's not a great
selling point for it.

Up to about 450hp the ACT clutch is a decent choice.  You should also look at
South Bend Clutches - they are getting involved with 3S cars and seemed very
interested in helping us out at the National Gathering.  They were actually
there - no other clutch vendor was.

http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
> One clutch keeps catching my eye - the RPS Max
> Carbon-Carbon clutch.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:20:50 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering update...

After we discussed it on both lists last week, I've been speaking to NASA
about putting together a package of road racing, autocross, and drag racing
for us for next year.  NASA NorCal head Jerry Kunzman was pretty excited about
helping us organize our "Dream Race Week" Gathering at Sears Point and Laguna
Seca on adjacent weekends.  But he was SO "into" trying to accomodate us, he
neglected to pay attention to my request for available dates for NEXT year.
He went and *changed* the NASA weekend dates for THIS year and set up two
*full* adjacent weekends in November-- Nov 22/23 at Infineon (Sears Point) and
Nov 29/30 at Laguna Seca!!!

I need to know if we have enough interest for THIS year to try to set up a
discount schedule for those dates.  If there are only a few cars, our normal
"NASA-sanctioned club" discount will apply, which is for every 5 signups, the
5th guy/gal is free (for a $300 weekend rate, that means that each of the 5
will pay $240).  For enough cars, we can get a better rate, I'm sure.

For those of you considering traveling here from other areas of the country,
our "summer months" are more like August to October, so November is the
beginning of the fall weather-- somewhat cooler, and perfect for racing.  This
might be an opportunity for us to do a "dry run" gathering of smaller
proportions than our plan for next year - without the autocross and drag
portions of the program (or we could add those if enough cars are
participating).  Jerry is going to run these new dates anyway, whether we
participate or not, and he *will* fill it up - with or without us.  But if we
want to make a showing, now is the time to have him set aside those slots for
Team3S racers.

Please let me know how many of you want to participate, and if there is
lengthy discussion, lets take it over to the Team3S Racers list, rather than
tie up the Main List.

Best,

Forrest

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:22:12 -0400
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with aftermarket

I'm looking for the best solution for aftermarket gauges without going with
the pillar mod. Can anyone recommend a setup that will work best from both
an aesthetic appearance and function.

Tommy
'96 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:30:33 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with aftermarket

Hi Tommy,

> I'm looking for the best solution for aftermarket gauges
> without going with the pillar mod. Can anyone recommend
> a setup that will work best from both an aesthetic
> appearance and function.

I think the "best" solution will likely be heavily based on personal preference, but I can offer one solution:

http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3000GT/DefiG/page1.html



I replaced the stock 3 gauges in the dash with aftermarket 60mm gauges.  There is also a 4x60 pod that JAC engineering (http://www.jac-engineering.com) makes, which will fit on top of the center dash and provide room for a total of 7 gauges.  I have one of those, too, and will get around to it eventually :-)

- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:32:00 -0400
From: "rhoden@easystreet.com" <rhoden@easystreet.com>
Subject: Team3S: Transfer Case Leaking After Recall

I took my car in for the transfer case recall a few months ago and I think
it's leaking again.  For the last few weeks I've found small pools of clear
oil under the car (obviously not the synthetic engine lubricant I use) and
I'm now noticing a burnt oil smell.  Has anyone experienced anything
similar?  Thanks,

Michael
92 VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:33:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: Jim Floyd <jim_floyd7@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with aftermarket

I believe Greddy 52 mm will down in and 60 mm will install on the outside. I've seen both and they look GOOD.

I probably think that becasue I use Greddy myself.

- -------Original Message-------
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Sent: 07/24/03 12:22 PM
To: Team3S@team3s.com
Subject: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with aftermarket

>
> I'm looking for the best solution for aftermarket gauges without going with
the pillar mod. Can anyone recommend a setup that will work best from both
an aesthetic appearance and function.

Tommy
'96 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:09:26 -0400
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with aftermarket

Thanks guys for your help and directions on this.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross, Erik [mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:31 PM
To: Williams, Tommy F; Team3S List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Anyone replace factory 3 pod gauges with
aftermarket


Hi Tommy,

> I'm looking for the best solution for aftermarket gauges
> without going with the pillar mod. Can anyone recommend
> a setup that will work best from both an aesthetic
> appearance and function.

I think the "best" solution will likely be heavily based on personal
preference, but I can offer one solution:

http://www.team3s.com/~egross/3000GT/DefiG/page1.html



I replaced the stock 3 gauges in the dash with aftermarket 60mm gauges.
There is also a 4x60 pod that JAC engineering
(http://www.jac-engineering.com) makes, which will fit on top of the center
dash and provide room for a total of 7 gauges.  I have one of those, too,
and will get around to it eventually :-)

- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:25:00 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

I have not done this job on a turbo car, but I would expect;
Mechanic that's done it once before - 1 hour, including bleeding
Mechanic that's never seen a turbo before - 2 hours, tops

How many hours does a dealer quote on this?

Skyrider
 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:29 PM
To: 'Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student)'; mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)


The car got fixed in Santa Clara, CA (Silicon Valley), so I believe the labor rate of $88 / hour is reasonable, but I think I got robbed on the part prices, and even on the number of hours the whole job took.  I am sure I am paying way too much, but hey, when you are stuck and you need your car fixed quick, sometimes you close your eyes and just go ahead...
it is better than paying for rentals or towing the car, etc...  

Thanks for all who replied,
John Raicu
94 Yellow TT

- -----Original Message-----
From: Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth (UMR-Student) [mailto:bwish@umr.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:24 PM
To: iraicu@cs.wayne.edu; mi3si@yahoogroups.com; Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

Holy Crikey!! Well, I don't know about the labor or your hose, but I only paid $42 for my clutch slave at my friendly, neighborhood O'Reilly's... So, I guess you paid over 3 times the amount for that... I would guess about the same trend for everything else... I wouldn't think a hose would go for $85, and I always thought that labor ran about $45-$60 an hour...
-b
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
Sent: Wed 7/23/2003 4:35 PM
To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
Cc:
Subject: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:04:23 EDT
From: Rod2414738@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer Case Leaking After Recall

Yep, I too had my transfer case recall applied a few months back.  They just
re-sealed mine, they did not replace the case.  A few nights ago, while
flushing and bleeding my brakes, I noticed that it is leaking again.  I haven't
called the dealer yet to see how they will try to weasel out of fixing it again. 
I shouldn't say that, for a dealer, they have been pretty decent to me.  I do
have a dye kit, so if they tell me it's not the transfer case leaking, I will
put dye in it.  I don't want to touch it until they look at it though.

- -Rod
'93 Stealth R/T TT

In a message dated 7/24/2003 1:32:49 PM Central Standard Time,
rhoden@easystreet.com writes:

> took my car in for the transfer case recall a few months ago and I think
> it's leaking again.  For the last few weeks I've found small pools of clear
> oil under the car (obviously not the synthetic engine lubricant I use) and
> I'm now noticing a burnt oil smell.  Has anyone experienced anything
> similar?  Thanks,
>
> Michael
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:51:47 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700 poorer, but at least its fixed :)

yes, you overpaid.  This is about the price I paid for a new clutch.

Rule of Thumb => labor cost = material cost. Call Mitsu and ask the job book entry for slave cylinder replacement - I doubt it is 4.5 hours.

Chuck Willis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:35 PM
To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
Subject: Team3S: RE: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure ... I am $700
poorer, but at least its fixed :)


Well, I fixed the car at the closest shop I found.  The parts that were
replaced were the slave clutch cylinder and some hose.  The number of
labor hours were 4.5 hours @ $88 / hour, $85 for the hose, $140 for the
slave clutch cylinder, so other fee of $20, they used my oil, and
taxes... so the total cost comes out to something just under $700.  This
sounds like a rip off to me, but I needed the car ASAP, so I didn't want
to bother with fixing it myself (would take too long), and I just took
it at the fist shop I found (some gas station :(.  The car is already
fixed, so I have no choice but to pay these guys, but I am just
wondering by how much I overpaid my little adventure!

John Raicu
94 Yellow TT


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ioan Raicu [mailto:iraicu@cs.wayne.edu]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:42 PM
To: mi3si@yahoogroups.com; 'Team3S'
Subject: [mi3si] clutch pedal has no pressure

Hello again,

...

Most likely, one of the clutch cylinders (master/slave) was leaking, and
it just gave up, but I don't understand how could it happen so
drastically and quick, in a matter of 60 seconds, it went from normal to
no pressure at all.  If one of these cylinders is leaking and I fill up

...

John Raicu
94 Yellow TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:44:14 -0400
From: "anscray" <anscray@comcast.net>
Subject: Team3S: Plug gapping advice

Guys,

  I am taking my 3S in for a tune-up tomorrow. I will bring in my own
NGK(PFR6J-11) and NGK wires.  What would some of you recommend I gap my
plugs at with the following set-up:

94 VR4 (100K)
K&N FIPK
Apexi AVC-R (set at .9 bar)
Borla Exhaust
Greddy S-Type BOV


TIA,
Scott
Wishing there were more reliable 3S Techs in North Florida...........


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:27:25 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: 'Dream Race Week' Bay Area gathering update...

Bob:
No, I can't make a November event.

The ideal timing would be to let us travel on Friday, Saturday and Sunday,
run an event on Monday-Tuesday, travel on Wednesday, run another event on
Thursday-Friday, and head home Friday night. That gives us the weekends to
travel. For folks who are towing cars from the east coast, that works out
pretty good.

>*full* adjacent weekends in November-- Nov 22/23 at Infineon (Sears Point)
and
>Nov 29/30 at Laguna Seca!!! I need to know if we have enough interest for
THIS year
>To unsub: Email majordomo@speedtoys.com with a body of 'unsubscribe 3sracers'
>"Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars."

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #211
***************************************