Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Wednesday, July 16 2003   Volume 02 : Number 205
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:17:19 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem
 
Sounds like a component in the alternator (likely the voltage regulator) is burned, first having problems charging, but also causing a trickle discharge.
 
Most automotive shops can test your alternator for operation and make this determination quickly.
 
Nick
93 VR-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:59:34 -0600
From: Greg Gonzales <stealth@fitnessolutions.com>
Subject: Team3S: Idle troubles Problem update
 
Ok I played with the car a bit more. I am noticing now that when I turn
on the AC the RPM will drop and bounce even more so than when the AC is
not on. Will the ISC motor do this even when the AC is not on and when I
am driving?
What about the TPS? any more suggestions are greatly appreciated. Could
the alternator be causing this?
 
Thanks
Greg G 92 RT TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:23:45 -0400
From: James Matherly <jemather@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Greddy Profec E-01 Reactions
 
I am looking into getting a turbo timer for my TT, and I was also
looking at boost controllers.  One of my friends told me that he had
heard something about a new boost controller, he thought made by
GReddy, that also had a turbo timer functionality.  I've been doing
some research on the web, and it doesn't seem like the Profec E-01
(GReddy's newest model) has a turbo timer in it along with the
controller.
 
I'm interested in getting a electronic boost controller and turbo timer
in the same package, and it surprises me that I have never been able to
find such a thing.  Does anyone know if this new Profec model can
function as a turbo timer, or of any other EBC/Timer packages?
 
Regards,
Ted Matherly
jemather@umich.edu
'92 Stealth TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:26:42 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: How about a "Dream 3S Race Week" on the West Coast?
 
>If we were all ROWG's, we could just rent Laguna for the day and do
>whatever we want with unlimited track time ($15k, or $150 apiece for
>100 people).
 
Seems to me that we need to bring in some "Real ROWGs," like my buddy Brian, and combine them with 3000GT people.
 
For instance, I know a bunch of ROWGs to whom spending a bunch of cash is not a big deal.  I could easily add a new M3 and a new Porsche TT to our Iowa delegation, to go along with Brian's trailer and Z06. That means we would have 4-6 3000GT/Stealths and 3 ROWG guests from Iowa.
 
I bet the rest of our nationwide community could do equally as well. For the sake of a Left Coast 3S meeting, perhaps we should allow a bunch of "guest" ROWGs to attend and help share the costs.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:55:38 -0400
From: James Matherly <jemather@umich.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Cold start/ignition timing used as boost controller?
 
I have noticed that in my '92 Stealth TT, on a cold start, it feels as
if the car is stuttering above around 2500 rpms.  It feels like the ECU
is pulling ignition timing, as if it was trying to control boost. 
However, once the car gets up to normal operating temp, it runs
perfectly.  I have a datalogger on the way, so I will know more at the
end of the week, but is this the ECU trying to keep the boost under
control until the car gets warmed up?
 
I know my buddy's WRX does a similar thing, where the ECU limits boost
to about 7psi until it gets to temp, but it does this through the BOV,
and not by messing with the engine.  I searched a bit in the archives
and couldn't come up with anything.
 
Regards,
Ted Matherly
jemather@umich.edu
'92 Stealth TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:06:00 -0400
From: bob atkins <ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: How about a "Dream 3S Race Week" on the West Coast?
 
Put away the Viagra, this sounds better than sex. - Sear Point and Laguna Seca and Cop races now you've got my attention.  Something like this is worth transport expenses and with some coordination, we might be able to get a few on  a common transporter.
 
You go Bob
badbob
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:19:50 -0400
From: bob atkins <ratkins@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: How about a "Dream 3S Race Week" on the West Coast?
 
I gotta tell ya this got me so excited that I woke the wife up to tell her - and she HATES to be woke up - and she said - "We gotta go to that"
 
And she doesn't do car stuff - my daughters are my pit family.  I got goose bumps!!!!
 
I'm ready for assignments Bob!!!
 
Badbob
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:27:04 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cold start/ignition timing used as boost controller?
 
Naw man.. that's open loop.  Before the O2 is warm, the car will stumble when you cross the 0 line.  All 3 of mine have always done that.
 
Ken Stanton
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bret Duvall <teeminus@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Electronic Boost Controllers
 
Hello All---
 
'93 VR4...19k miles... What is the best EBC that will
give me great performance, but reliable enough so my
baby engine doesn't smoke?  Any recommendations?
 
Thanks,
 
Bret
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:22:25 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Electronic Boost Controllers
 
Any you want but set to 14 psi.
 
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:05:00 -0400
From: "Bob G" <Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
I don't know about you guys, but it seems to me that the oil filter for our cars is awfully small.  It can't do a very good job considering the size of the engine and oil capacity.  Is there a larger filter available?  More filter area would seem to promote better filtering for a longer period, not to mention less work for the oil pump (and better oil pressure).
 
Bob Guirlinger
92 VR-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:15:37 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem
 
>> Not necessarily.  A 12 V battery is rated to be 12V.
 
No. Twelve-volt automotive batteries are typically rated at ~12.8 volts (or about 2.14 volts per cell) with a full charge. For sealed lead acid batteries (such as the Optima or Odyssey), battery charge can be determined solely from the open-circuit voltage (no load or charge attached to battery for ~24 hours). ~12.8 volts is 100% charged. ~11.6 volts is 0% charged. For flooded batteries, the electrolyte specific gravity better determines battery charge.
 
>> It does sound like you have a charging issue.
 
Agreed.
 
>> 11.5 or above is normal for the battery when the car is off.
 
No, not for our cars and not for 12-v batteries. Mid-12-volt range is normal. 11.5 volts indicate a discharged battery.
 
>> 14 to 15.5 is normal for a running car, less tells you the alternator
>> is not working properly.
 
Again, not true for our cars. Alternator charging specs are listed in the service manual (electrical volume) and summarized below. Charging voltage depends on the operating temperature of the alternator, not ambient air.
 
- -20ºC  (-4ºF) 14.2-15.4 v
 20ºC  (68ºF) 13.9-14.9 v
 60ºC (140ºF) 13.4-14.6 v
 80ºC (176ºF) 13.1-14.5 v
 
I typically see 13.5 to 13.7 volts at the battery during the summer (could be a little weak but it is within specs). During WOT, my system voltage often lowers to only 13 or so, according to the TMO datalogger.
 
More info on batteries, especially SLA batteries.
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-dynabatt.htm
 
As Jim suggests, disconnect neg battery cable to eliminate parasitic losses and see if the battery is still dead if left alone for a short period. My Hawker G16EP (aka Dyna-Batt) charge only dropped to 12.6 volts after sitting 6 months on the shelf.
 
Jim Matthews wrote:
>> I bought a new battery in France ... and measured right around 12 VDC
>> while running with no A/C and all accessories off. ... So, it seems
>> that there is a problem with my charging system, but that doesn't
>> explain the draw when the car is off ... .
 
Yes it does. At only 12 v during "charge" the battery cannot be charging. Charging voltage must exceed 12.8 to charge the battery. Very likely, the battery was not recharged before letting it sit for a week. No wonder it died Also, many batteries, including the Optima red top and some other SLA batteries, do not recover well after being totally drained. Sometimes only 2 or 3 instances can ruin a conventional (floated) battery.
 
Many auto shops will load test the battery and alternator (for free here in the USA).
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:45:10 -0000
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LJET <Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Team3S: for sale page?
 
Where is the team3s for sale page?  where we can sell these cars?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:09:30 -0700
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
Wouldn't that lower the oil pressure?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:12:58 -0700
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Electronic Boost Controllers
 
Blitz dsbc-id. Works great, one of the few (afaik) that has a boot limiter (it will cut boost if you spike past a setting) and has a large, readable boost gauge w/ playback, which imho eliminates the need for a separate boost gauge.
 
Alex
'95 VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:53:59 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
>> Wouldn't that [a larger oil filter] lower the oil pressure?
 
Not really related. In our DOHC engines, oil pressure is measured *after* the pump, oil cooler (turbo models), and oil filter, but *before* passages go to turbos, crank, and cams. Pressure will be determined by volume flow, oil viscosity, and clearances/restrictions in the engine.
 
>> I don't know about you guys, but it seems to me that the
>> oil filter for our cars is awfully small.  It can't do a very good
>> job considering the size of the engine and oil capacity.
 
~181 CI and ~5 qts of oil. How is a "very good job" quantified?
 
http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart5.htm
http://www.frankhunt.com/FRANK/corvette/articles/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
 
Pressure loss across filter?
(Has anyone measured this? Does it matter that much?)
 
Filtering ability (particle size)?
(Does anyone know minimum particle size?)
 
Longevity?
(How long before filtered particles increase pressure loss?)
 
Volume flow?
(Related somewhat to pressure loss. Again does anyone know and does it seem to be a problem for us?)
 
Before guessing if the oil filter "can't do a very good job" for us, maybe we should determine what job it is doing. :)
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:08:55 +0100
From: "Jim Matthews" <jim@the-matthews.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem
 
Are you saying that had I topped off the battery with my charger before letting the car sit, the battery would not have discharged?  It doesn't maintain whatever charge the alternator leaves it with?
 
> Many auto shops will load test the battery and alternator (for free
> here in the USA).
 
I just visited my local Mitsu dealer to see if they would feel comfortable performing the 60k mile service (and replace the alternator at the same
time) and they won't touch it ("we did one once and it was a problem").  I didn't bother asking them to test the alternator because I'm seeing 12.0 VDC at idle and only 12.5-12.8 VDC at mid to high RPM, clearly a failed alternator.
 
- - --
Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England
mailto:jim@the-matthews.com
http://www.the-matthews.com
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:05:04 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
A couple notes here:
 
Looking at the links Jeff provided, I agree mostly that an oil filter is an oil filter.  I also agree that Fram filters suck.
 
I'm using an oil filter on my 400cid (approx 6.6 liter) V8 with a Melling race-grade oil pump in my Pontiac that is not really much bigger than the 3000GT/Stealth's.  If you go by flow totals/oil capacity compared to filter size, it would be MUCH smaller than the 3/S's.  I typically use K&N oil filters during summer driving, and Purolator during winter.  The K&N catches a smaller particle size with lower restriction, good for my aggressive summer driving, Puralators will typically flow better after age.  Of note: I also use a much heavier oil during the summer 20-50W synthetic vs. 10-30W winter.  Has to do with cold-engine oil viscosity and how hot the oil gets max (I also have a radiator-style oil cooler on the car).
 
Lots of automotive places sell oil filter relocation kits which allow you to move your filter to a much easier to access area, but this also opens you up to conversions.  Many big-block performance guys hereabouts will use dual sequential filters to increase filtration, but this WOULD cause a noticeable drop in oil pressure due to two filter elements. Relocation itself would be pretty negligible unless you were relocating WAY far away, and I have no idea where we would relocate to in that cramped engine bay anyway! :)
 
Nick
93 VR-4
and 76 Pontiac GP ;)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:19:53 -0400
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr WRALC/LJET <Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject: Team3S: 1994 3000 GT for sale
 
http://www.team3s.com/FAQforsale.htm
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:33:42 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S: Oil system cleaning
 
Can anyone suggest a good reliable method of cleaning our oil system?  As in, the passages, internals, etc via an additive.  I know Flash talked of an Amsoil product during our oil discussion at NG.  What all is out there?
 
I'm having a problem where on warm/hot starts, I get -NO- oil pressure until I give the car a quick rev.  Almost like the oil is too thin or is trying to overcome a restriction or something.  The -only- oil that does not give this problem is Valvoline Max Life (high mileage) in either 10w30 or 10w40. Mobil 1 is the worst, and I've tried various natural and synthetics.
 
The car runs excellent and does not burn oil, I just turned 55700 on the odometer (2400 miles put on from NG!!!).  Thanks!
 
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:42:42 -0700
From: Rodney Smith <rodneys@DoITTech.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 1994 3000 GT for sale
 
[Sorry, I'm not looking to buy your car.] I want to know how you got our
car listed on team3s.com.
 
I have a 3000GT VR4 I'm looking to sell, and wondering what to price it at.
See http://www.doittech.com/car/
How should I go about listing mine at Team3S.com too?
 
Thanks in advance, and hope your sale goes well.
 
- -Rodney Smith
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:24:00 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
A Team3S member wrote me privately. I am not sure if he meant to or meant the note for the list. But I thought the comment valid and wanted to respond to the list.
 
The member remarked that a better flowing filter should be used if available (same line of thought as reducing pressure loss in the intake and exhaust systems). He also (mistakenly) assumed that the pump pulled oil through the filter.
 
My response:
 
The oil pump pulls oil out of the pan and pushes oil through everything else; first through the oil cooler (turbo models; not really a sequence, more like an extra loop before the filter), then through the oil filter, then past the pressure sensors, then branches to the lines to the turbos, and finally to the channels for the crank and cam. Diagrams are available in the overhaul manual and maybe the service manuals.
 
While there is no arguing that reduced pressure loss is always a desirable improvement, it can be argued or at least discussed where the point of diminishing returns occurs. Because the flow performance of our oil filter is unknown, I'll use our fuel filter as an example.
 
To the best of our knowledge, our factory fuel filter has a pressure drop of about 0.18 psi at 80 gph flow (beyond what a Supra pump can flow at 13.5 v and 43 psi). The SX fuel filter I installed in my TT has a drop of about 0.025 psi at 80 gph flow. Is the SX better? You bet! Is there something wrong with the stock filter? Not at all! A 0.18 psi drop *at 80 gph flow* is minimal, and quite acceptable, in a fuel system pressurized to 43 psi (differential across injectors) with a (stock) pump capable of 70 psi (aftermarket pumps have higher flow and higher max pressure).
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelfilter-upgrade.htm
 
I would extend this analogy to the oil filter. Unless we know that it is overly restrictive, there is no compelling reason to pursue a replacement (as far as pressure loss issues go). Yes, a replacement could be better. But is it required for any reason? Not that we know of at this point.
 
Later,
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:52:45 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
If you really want to get picky, any situation where an engine-driven mechanical pump is used will see a benefit in reduction of parasitic load on the engine itself by reducing pressure drop; a pump generating 40psi and achieving 39psi drags a little harder on the motor to keep the flow rate up, kind of like pressure surge coming back against a turbo.
 
Realistically, how much power is lost through a "stock" filter vs. a higher flowing K&N oil filter?  You probably couldn't measure it.
 
Nick
93 VR-4 (the lube master)
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:08:20 -0700
From: "Peter S. Linss" <peter@linss.com>
Subject: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
Does anyone have a good source for a rebuilt transmission for a '97
3000GT VR4? Or a shop that could possibly rebuild mine? Preferably on
the west coast but I can travel to save a buck or two. The model # I
need is MB896324, the dealer isn't sure about the spline count on that
unit but they're looking into it.
 
I've tried the listings under transmission parts on the good guys page
and no joy so far.
 
Mine apparently destroyed a gear somewhere on the output side last
Friday (lot's of grinding and popping except when accelerating). It's
out of warranty and a new one will be somewhere in the neighborhood of
$4000 from my local dealer.
 
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Peter
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:14:56 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
http://www.stealth316.com/0-frames.htm
 
Jeff Lucius web site has many contacts for rebuilt trannies or parts.  Yes, yours may be rebuildable.  Beware of places that offer used as rebuilt.
 
Did you have the transfer case recall performed yet?
 
Chuck Willis
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:30:00 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Boost Controllers
 
Earlier today, someone recommended the Blitz DSBC-ID boost controller.  I deleted the message, so I'm not sure who did.  However, the only DSBC's that I know are the DSBC-Spec R, and the DSBC-Spec S.  The "ID" controller is the SBC.  Am I right about that?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:33:56 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Controllers
 
I have the ID controller and it is a Dual Solenoid boost controller. The SBC part stands for Sequential Boost Controller.
 
Francis
'96RT/TT 12.08@113.19
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:37:10 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Controllers
 
Thanks.  But I was referring to the product name itself.  I wasn't sure if the recommendation was for the Blitz SBC-ID, or one of the Blitz DSBC's.  Seems to me, though, that the one you have (the SBC-ID) is definitely the way to go.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:36:36 -0700
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Controllers
 
This is the id controller
 
http://www.dynamicracing.com/customer/product.php?productid=23&cat=4&page=1
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:40:51 -0400
From: "Bob G" <Rguirlinger@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: [private]: Larger Capacity Oil Filter?
 
Yes, also to the list.  Thanks Jeff.
 
Bob Guirlinger
92 VR-4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:16:44 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
I list a dozen places at the link below.
 
http://www.stealth316.com/1-repair.htm#S12
 
Mitsu had the Getrags rebuilt by CRS until a few years ago (according to the Mitsu tech web site that closed to freebies yesterday). Because CRS now supplies internal parts for both our 5 and 6 spd Getrags, virtually any tranny shop can repair our transaxles. How well a shop performs this task is another problem. :)
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:23:57 -0700
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
Just to get a feel for it, how much should a rebuilt transmission (w/o xfer case) cost?
 
I am in need of a replacement (it still works, but I have become a master rev-matcher and it takes 4-5s to shift from 1-2). I've thought about rebuilding it myself, but considering that while the 1st and 2nd gear synchros are the really bad ones, the rest of them aren't great either, I'd have to replace all of them and I think it'd be cheaper to buy a remanufactured trans.
 
Tia
 
Alex.
'95 VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:30:12 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery drain / charging system problem
 
>> Are you saying that had I topped off the battery
>> with my charger before letting the car sit, the
>> battery would not have discharged?
 
No. I am saying the battery started out partially discharged or even may have been close to completely discharged when you turned the car off (assuming alternator charging voltage was only 12 v). Batteries always discharge, even without a load on them. Very good batteries (such as Hawker Odyssey batteries) self-discharge fairly slowly (may take 2 to 10 years depending on temperature). Normal flooded automotive batteries may self-discharge in 6 months or less.
 
When a battery starts out with less than a full charge, then parasitic losses will cause complete discharge even sooner. What could have happened in your case. If you had charged up the battery to the best of its capacity, it would have still discharged in the short term due to parasitic losses. It just would have taken a little longer to become completely discharged (~11.6 v or less).
 
>> It doesn't maintain whatever charge the alternator leaves it with?
 
No, not in the long term. See above. And not even in the short term with parasitic losses.
 
*Whenever* a battery discharges, sulfate crystals are produced that bond with the lead on the negative plates. When a battery is deeply discharged, that is, beyond the 11.6 volts to like the 0.0 volt area, excessive, non-reversible sulfation can occur. This can kill almost any battery quickly.
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:33:42 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
I got a new one from Kormex for $2,000.
 
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:40:41 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Where is Oil Temp Meaningful?
 
When people talk about oil temps, where is this reading meaningful?  i.e. Do you measure it in the pan, after the oil cooler, in the return lines from the turbos, in the heads, or some other place?  Especially in a turbo car, the temperature from the "hot" areas can be substantially different from the "cold" areas. 
 
I've heard people say "XXX degrees is the upper limit of what you should run on your oil temps - if it gets any hotter than that, you need to get off the throttle or improve your cooling system."  Is that temp number for the oil going *into* the turbos/bearings/heads, or is that number for the oil returning from such places?
 
- --Erik
'95 VR-4  www.team3s.com/~egross
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:55:49 -0700
From: "Alex Pedenko" <alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
How does Kormex work exactly. Do they have a core charge? If they do, do they care what condition your trans is in?
 
Also, do they have any kind of warranty?
 
Thanks,
Alex
'95 VR4
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:00:47 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where is Oil Temp Meaningful?
 
I would guess the best place might be where the oil is hottest. The oil pan might be the easiest "hot" place to get to. The reasoning would be that oil degrades at higher temps and so we would be checking for the highest temps the oil reaches.
 
I don't have engine oil testing procedures at my web site but I do have some for gear oil.
 
http://www.stealth316.com/misc/gearoil-test-procedures.pdf
 
Check out http://www.stealth316.com/misc/ for other interesting material.
 
Anyway, one test is conducted at 325ºF (162ºC) for 50 hours to measure for deterioration. This gives some idea of max temps to avoid. I would guess max engine oil temp should be a bit less.
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:01:39 -0600
From: "Curtis McConnell" <Curtis.McConnell@pulte.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
It has been a while since I got mine but I believe there was a core charge, but your tranny can be pretty much trashed, mine was.
 
No warranty, but they put some ort of "upgraded synchros" in the new ones.
 
Call Frank at Kormex to get some more info.
 
Curtis McConnell
1995 Vr-4 Spyder
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:49:10 -0700
From: Peter Linss <peter@linss.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Source for rebuilt transmission?
 
Thanks for the links guys, found a couple already for about half what
Mitsu will charge. Looks like my baby wont have to spend the next few
months sitting in the garage...
 
So far Kormex has the best price ($1700 with trade in, delivered), those
of you who have used them, how happy are you?  Their warranty is less
than others (3 months vs 1yr), any issues? My car isn't driven every day
so the miles rack up slowly and problems may not be found for a while
(it took 2.5 years to do the 8000 miles that ate this transmission),
though, when it does get driven, it gets driven hard :-) Any details on
their upgraded 1st and 2nd gear synchros?
 
Peter
 
'97 VR4
 
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Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:09:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Where is Oil Temp Meaningful?
 
Measure in the sump..or at the filter.
 
Add 50 for bearing temps.
 
anything near 300 is -bad-..cars smart enough to do so..shut off at 300.
 
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff Mohler orders@speedtoys.com Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR brakes?  I can help...asking is free!  :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
 
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End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #205
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