Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, July 8
2003 Volume 02 : Number 199
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:54:07 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Clutches again...
Mine started slipping under hard acceleration.
------------------------------
Good news to all who posted helpful suggestions -
I replaced the plug wires yesterday evening and it runs great! The
last one I removed was the rear bank passenger side. It had a little hole
in the boot that goes over the spark plug and a carbonized track of the
arcing. I have seen this on distributor caps, but never on a spark plug
boot. I've seen plug wires that are worn or brittle, but never a
boot.
I wish I had noticed this when I changed the plugs about a month ago
...
Chuck Willis
BTW bad news is that the '94 VR4 will not be ready in time for the National
Gathering. It looks like we will be taking the '93 with the stock suspension and
the bad angular velocity sensor.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:35:28 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Clutch :(
From my collection of 'clutch problems' experience, the pattern I've seen
is that the slave going bad will cause the pedal to not rebound up, and the
master will cause excess pedal pressure (stiff). If you think about it,
those make perfect sense, too.
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:39:23 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Clutches again...
It's a pretty good shot that you glazed it. I toasted a clutch
*backing* up about 200' of construction site dirt road (20-degree grade), and I
ruined another one 6 years ago at the First 3S West Coast Gathering while going
up an 1/2 mile long hill (15-degree grade), stuck in stop and go
traffic... Ya gotta love San Francisco hills. ;-)
To test your clutch, the "old-fashioned way" still works, and it will give
you an idea of how immediately you need to replace it:
Put the E-brake on tightly, put the car in 2nd, and slowly let out the
clutch. If it stalls right away, you're OK for a while; if it spins a while
before stalling, make an appointment or dig out your tools. Best,
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
One other thing to check in addition to what others have said, is check the
rubber hose that goes to the slave cylinder. Mine developed a small hole
that basically bled the fluid out and therefore no pedal pressure. If you
are replacing stuff, I would replace that hose as well.
------------------------------
... to change the steering angular velocity sensor (under the steering
wheel)? (Phil Glazatov where are you?)
My red car is not going to be ready so I am bring the white one. I am
picking up the part before I leave Houston tomorrow, but I would sure like to
know if somebody could help me replace it in St. Louis. The dealer job
book says 1.5 hours labor. The part is arriving like 1PM and I don't think I've
got time to have it swapped before I leave.
Chuck (TourSport) Willis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:04:04 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: anybody going to the National Gathering who knows how ...
Chuck,
Look me up when you get here or just give me a call. I live
here in STL and have most of what you would probably need to do the job.
I'm only off
of work Thursday, Friday and Saturday. But I'd be
glad to lend you a hand
if you need it.
That goes as well for anybody else coming into town, if you need
directions, help finding something here in town, a good place to go
drinking/eating, or want to know where the good hang outs are. Gimme a
shout when you get here. I don't have ANYTHING to do with the organization
of the gathering and I'm not participating in any of the events except the car
show (just got my car back together, don't wanna beat it up too bad right
out of the gate). But I'll be around A LOT as a spectator and I know STL
well.
- -Jeff Crabtree
'91 R/T TT (3SI #0499)
2k Jeep
TJ Sport
St. Louis, MO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Wert <
mrstealth13@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Wiring harness on base same as ES ???????
I am switching from a SOHC to a DOHC engine for my '92
Base model
Stealth and I don't know if the wiring
harness for the ES is the same as it
is for the Base.
The injectors are different though so won't the
harness
have to change?
Thank you
Andrew - 1992 Stealth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:25:14 -0500
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: Team3S: 3SX motor
mounts
Does anyone have some close-up pictures of their 3SX motor mounts? I don't
exactly have that kind of money for new mounts, and the polished aluminum would
seem a little out of place in my SOHC engine bay... So I'm looking to press-fit
some high-impact plastic into some junk mounts I've tracked down and I'd like to
know how to go about staking the plastic bushings in to prevent the "walk-out",
and I'd also like to know the positioning of the cross pins (especially since my
old mounts w/ the deteriorating rubber bushings won't provide a good template).
Anyone with some pics or some expertise, or maybe even some dimensions would be
GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.
-b
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:35:50 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <
brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Contact a user named Shadowfax on 3si.org. His company
(Just-Performance.com) sells a lower-cost poly engine mount that you press into
your existing mounts.
Good luck!
- - Brian Geddes
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:55:06 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Here are pictures prior to staking and then the link to the fix I had to do
to correct the "walk-out" I experienced in these mounts. Good luck
although I don't think handling this one on your own is very feasible - pushing
in the solid mount material is very difficult at home but good luck. I
have checked two other mounts and I don't believe they have moved (if so then
not anything as drastically as this one did).
- --Flash!
1995-1/2 VR-4 with 3SX solid motor mounts.
------------------------------
Your correct, it was the slave cylinder. I topped up the fluid, which was
empty, and had someone pump the peddle. Didn't take long to see the leak. Right
from the boot. It actually broke down 1 block from my usual shop. Was able to
push it there. Only gonna cost 300$ CDN for a new slave cylinder. Not to bad.
Thanks guys for the help
Jason
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:19:40 -0700
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <
tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Speaking of motor mounts, I need some ASAP. Anyone have a set?
Hi all.
I need a set of Mounts for my 92 VR4. Called 3SX, they jerked me around
last week, now said they don't have em in stock and since they are going to the
NG they wont have any for a while till they get back. Anyone got a set laying
around?
Tyson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:36:24 -0400
From:
jemather@umich.eduSubject: Team3S:
Missing shifts
I got a '92 Stealth TT about a week and a half ago and have missed shifts
probably close to a dozen times, usually the 1-2 but sometimes 2-3.
Admittedly, I have not driven a manual transmission car since my mom's Honda
Prelude went away several years ago, but I like to think that I at least
shouldn't be missing shifts. When I do miss the gears, it feels like
the
synchros aren't working quite as fast as they should, because I can hear
the
gears grinding, and the shifter feels like its hit a wall.
Naturally, this
scares the hell out of my passengers and makes other drivers
laugh at me. The car has 132k on it, but the tranny was replaced in '95, so its
got a few
less miles on it. I notice no other problems with the
driveline - clutch is
rock-solid, tranny seems fine. I am going to
flush the transmission and
replace it with Redline - one of my friend's
suggested that this should help
the synchros, but I haven't gotten around to
it yet. Is he right, or is this a
personal problem?
Regards,
Ted Matherly
'92 Stealth TT
'91 Eclipse GSX
------------------------------
At 05:36 PM 7/7/2003 -0400,
jemather@umich.edu wrote:
>I got a
'92 Stealth TT about a week and a half ago and have missed
>shifts
probably close to a dozen times, usually the 1-2 but sometimes 2-3.
If the tranny was replaced 7 years ago, then you probably have
60,000 miles on it, so it's possible it could fail again.
Try this: Drive slowly, say 10-15 mph, push the clutch in all the way, then
shift the car quickly. Not a bang shift, mind you, just a quick shift from 1-2
and 2-3 and 3-2. You should be able to move the shifter among these gears with
nothing more than a snick. If you hear a crunch or a grind, it's your
synchronizers, baby.
If not, maybe you are out of fluid. I just blew my 6 speed, and the first
indication of trouble was when I missed the 2-3 upshift at the Corvette Club
autocross. A week or so later, it started missing lots of gears, then jumping
out of gear. I think my tranny ran out of fluid. Check yours real quick.
If not any of that, maybe it's the clutch. At 132K, you can be at the end
of life of lots of components, such as clutch, booster, vacuum units, etc.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:49:58 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Missing shifts
No, Ted, I wouldn't take it totally personally. I had a long time
where I could not pull the same shifts. Between now and then, I have:
moved any piping in the way of the shifter, including a BOV pipe, replaced the
master cylinder, and bled the clutch. One of those did the trick.
Also, you may be correct in assuming synchros, that was one of the symptoms with
a previous TT I owned of them -quitting- on me. Yes, eventually I got
locked out of 1st gear it got so bad, but that is a rarity I understand.
Get the fluid done, check for restrictions (under the shift boot too!!) and let
us know how it stands.
Ken Stanton
3 x 1991 Pearl White Stealth TT's
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:39:03 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Along those same lines - if the current mounts are not completely shot (but
like the stock mounts on my page) then you might be able to fill the holes with
an epoxy-type of mixture to stiffen up the stock mounts. This is an old
trick but determining how solid to make the filler material is the tricky
part.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:20:46 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
I don't see why no one has done this for the 3/S, but Prothane has been
building motor mounts for the DSM platform for longer than I can think...
They are simple, 2 piece per mount construction, where you burn out the OE mount
rubber, have this pressed in by a machine shop, and you've back on the road...
total cost for all 4 mounts, $85... Total labor - I did it myself, required
basic hand tools, and then took it to a friends shop with a simple jack based
hydraulic press...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:28:55 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: anybody going to the National Gathering who knows how ...
Chuck,
I just got to my email. Hope you have not left yet. Take that sensor with
you and we will swap it in under half an hour. I will take my steering
wheel puller with me. Call me 248-342-3231 Wednesday night. See you in St.
Louis!
Philip
------------------------------
Recently I took my 91 TT into the shop and had my water pump replaced.
Before it was replaced the car was "fine", now even after a 15 minute
drive to warm it up, whenever I "hit it" it seems to give a half stall
I.E. wants to go but it sputters like I am lugging it(in 1st @ 2.5k
rpm). Any Ideas? Or am I just missing something?
BTW, I am enjoying the discussion on clutch tests. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:14:35 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Cody, you *have* noticed that getting to, removing, and replacing the 4
mounts in a 3/S are a little more difficult than a DSM, right? You
basically need an engine hoist to get it off of the mounts enough to remove them
and I have no idea how to get the other three mounts out as that was done for me
when I had the 90k tune-up done.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:00:57 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Ignition coil upgrades
Does anyone (MSD, Mallory, Accel, or others) make a direct-fit replacement
for our coils? I'm planning on adding a MSD DIS-4-HO, but have (in the
past) burned stock coils with MSD boxes. I'm figuring that the DIS-4
(capacitive discharge) can wreak havoc with our stock (inductive discharge)
coils anyway, multiple spark aside. I'm hoping also to find something in
the 45K-55Kvolt range anyway.
Everyone on 3si seems to go on about modifying GM twin-pack coils, which is
all well and good, but I'd like something stock-ish in appearance. My old GM
cars are for fabrication and improvisation, the 3KGT is for stick-on fun.
Nick
93 VR-4 (I'm actually putting it together this week!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:13:46 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Actually, I replaced the mounts in my 3000 (with stock mounts)...
Quite easy actually, a little time consuming, and the rear one requires
multiple lengths of ratchet extensions, but at any rate, in the end you end up
doing the same amount of work, and spending $85 instead of $400 or whatever 3sx
sells them for...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:31:02 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts(LONG)
Brandon,
I sat down and searched for my pics of my mounts but came up empty
handed....I'll keep looking, SORRY. If you do manage to create your own
mount, you will be ahead of the game, here's why....
Unless someone has come up with something in the last 8-10 months
since I did my motor install, 3SX and the dealer are the only places to get
motor mounts. I searched high and low for alternatives, even contacting
some good ol' boy in Tennessee or south carolina....something like that...that
rebuilds motor mounts for old cars(no, even older than ours). He claimed
that the likely reason that I'm not having any luck finding alternatives is that
there is not enough calling for these mounts to be rebuilt......YET. There are
MANY, MANY places to buy rebuilt mounts for old camaros, old mustangs old
vettes, etc, etc, etc. See if you can guess why. Just one more log
on the fire of my argument that our cars are really going to be rare collector
items someday.
He said that the set up process to re-mold the rubber into the
existing steel brackets is relatively expensive to do since there are parts that
would have to be machined and molds created to do it. That's why nobody's
jumped in and started doing it yet. He ALSO suggested that the process
that 3SX uses is likely relatively simple in that they pour a plastic mixture in
it's liquid form into a mold of some sort and wait for it to harden, then press
it into the existing bracket. Molding rubber is a little more involved
according to him because it has to be bonded to the steel bracket. So why
doesn't EVERYBODY just do the polyurethane mounts? According to this guy,
poly may result in faster 1/4 mile times and be cheaper, but there's always a
yin to a yang. Aside from t he obvious increase in the transmission of
vibration, he said that poly mounts are more likely to shatter when they start
to wear our and/or deteriorate instead of just slowly crumbling and cracking
like the rubber ones.
SO, anybody know of a rubber manufacturing facility willing to take on the
task?
As far as how the 3SX mounts are staked, it looked to me to be a simple
sheet metal screw driven through the outer "hoop" of the steel bracket and into
the molded urethane. Time will tell if this is effective or not. BY
THE WAY.....the mounts from 3SX that I got were NOT "POLISHED" as they looked to
be on their website, instead they were painted a silver/aluminum color that
could easily have been re-painted to match any under-hood color scheme.
Not the answers you were looking for, but hope it helped a little.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:53:21 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX motor mounts(LONG)
One thing about most poly mounts that prothane makes for the DSM's that
keeps them from "walking" They are actually as wide as the entire
mount...
Is a link to the actual parts...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:42:18 -0500
From: "John Monnin" <
john.monnin@3si.zzn.com>
Subject:
Team3S: You have to see these destroyed brakes!
JeremyG and I went to Gingerman last week for an all day HPDE and
he melted the seals out of his brake calipers, we thought....
He actually melted the Steel backers of the Porterfield R4 pads and
pushed the pistons thought the brake pads!!!
I thought he was REALLY exaggerating until I saw these pictures, they
are unreal. Go to this Thread on 3si.
direct link to just 2 of many amazing pictures:
John Monnin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:25:54 -0600
From: Fraser Family <
b-mfraser@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S:
boost controller problems
hello all,
So I've been struggling with the GReddy PRofec A I installed
a short while ago, and in the process of looking around I noticed the both the
holes on the boost control solenoid were empty (i.e. no hoses attached). As I've
only had the car a year, and I haven't touched the solenoid myself, I'm a little
baffled. And I've read that once the EBC is installed the solenoid should be
capped. Well, since the plastic is melted, its gonna be hard to cap, but I'm
wondering if the solenoid not being capped, although the hoses are, is part of
what's holding the boost at 7 psi? So do both holes on the solenoid need to be
capped? And should the solenoid itself be unplugged from the harness?
Any help with this frustrating BC would be a godsend at this point, Thanks,
Sean Fraser '92 TT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:59:25 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Clutch :(
> You're correct, it was the slave cylinder.
I just had a similar problem clutch issue.
I was losing my clutch pedal, very hard to shift, tried adj it...no go. I
topped off my fluid...noticed that it was going down after a days drive...."ah,
leak"...under car, I see fresh Motul 600 at the slave...."ok slave is
leaking".....however when I got it to the mechanics they could not see/make it
leak....why? they discovered the MC was bypassing (leaking), which was not
providing enough pressure to make it leak, so "no leak"....replace the
MC...."ah! you have a leak!" (yep)....turned out to be the hard line that goes
into the slave...it was cracked.
so, I got double timed on that one, runs fine now though.
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
>JeremyG and I went to Gingerman last week for an all day HPDE and
he
>melted the seals out of his brake calipers, we thought.... He
actually
>melted the Steel backers of the Porterfield R4 pads and pushed
the
>pistons thought the brake pads!!!
A couple of observations...
I can't believe he didn't know the brakes were going away. When they get to
metal-to-metal, the car simply doesn't stop any more. It's maximum fade. He went
beyond metal to metal.
I've done a lot of weird stuff to my brakes on a track
(see
http://www.bazillionbooks.com/brokenrotor.htm)
but
even I have never taken brakes down that far. I'd like to be sympathetic, but
surely he had some warning that something was wrong with the brakes long before
all that happened.
NOTE TO TRACK ROOKIES: When you experience brake fade, it's a good
indication that your pads are plumb wore down.
I see that Jeremy has installed PowerSlot brake rotors.
MAJOR MISTAKE.
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON.
Don't use those suckers on the track! I
broke TWO of them! They snap right at the hat. Here's what it looks like:
http://www.mn3s.org/brainard-racing99.html
This shows a Stillen rotor that snapped, but I think Stillen and Powerslot
buy their cheesy rotors from the same place.
Better you should use stock rotors than Powerslots. Save them for cruising
down the boulevard and impressing the BMW owners, but don't use them on a track.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:40:31 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: You have to see these destroyed brakes!
Wow, this is crazy, I've never seen something like this. Doesn't speak at
all for Porterfields !! I have run the Pagids until the just smoked (never
let the car stand then, the pads will bond to the holes in the aftermarket
rotors) but melting the steel backers ... and even on the R4 that are
intended for race ... this will give Porterfield 10 minus points for race
purposes :-(
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:38:49 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: You have to see these destroyed brakes!
It says *nothing* about Porterfields and *everything* about the driver.
There's no way you can drive a car to that point and not have a clue that your
brakes are fading. At which point, you STOP DRIVING. Give the man a
big red "R" for Rookie, and remind him that the track is no place NOT to be
paying attention. That kind of pad damage happens to big-rig drivers
trying to stop a runaway on a downhill grade. It does NOT happen to people
who are checking everything before going out on the track, and who are mindful
of what is happening to their car ON the track. He should consider himself
lucky that he didn't wad up his car or hurt someone else.
Porterfield R4's reach fade-critical temperature (slightly) *later* than
Pagids, and (slightly) *earlier* than Carbotech XP. In other words, this
kind of extreme abuse would have brought on a similar failure with any of the 3
pads, with Pagids failing first in a controlled test. My only suggestion
for Porterfield is that maybe they need one of those disclaimers on their brake
pad boxes: "In case of brake fade, get off the track!"
To all rookies: Before going out on the track, check your fluids,
check your tire pressure, check your brakes, torque your wheels. Get a
damned tattoo if you can't remember it. If you don't remember that
checklist, it endangers ME - "the other guy"...
- ---Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:44:28 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Are *NONE* of you guys looking at the extensive pictures I took of my 3SX
mounts and the write-up on the fix for staking them?
> From: cody
> One thing about most poly mounts that prothane
makes for the DSM's
> that keeps them from "walking" They are
actually as wide as the
> entire mount...So instead of having room to
"walk" they are stuffed in
> quite tightly, and don't move whatsoever...
I'll get pics of them in
> the car before too long...
>
www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/prothane/prothane_bushing.jpg
That pic, Cody, shows me nothing. It is just a bunch of red parts
and I don't know what the size of the mounts are that they go into.
This is a pic of the front corner mount that did manage to
"walk." One view
(front) shows the amount that it walked and the other
view (rear) shows this same amount of space inside the mount meaning that the
poly used to take up the entire width of the mount. These are NOT cheap
upgrades but very good replacements.
www.team3s.com/~dschilberg/cars/engine/Motor_mounts/3SX_motor_mount_fix/pages/3SX_motor_mount_fix_02.htm
> From: William J. Crabtree
> He said that the set up process
to re-mold the rubber into the
> existing steel brackets is relatively
expensive to do since there are
> parts that would have to be machined
and molds created to do it.
> That's why nobody's jumped in and
started doing it yet.
Correct, but who said anything about molds - you *can* just pour the rubber
into the mount and let it harden - you don't need an injection molding machine
if that is what you are implying. I'm a Plastics Engineer with a few years
of Plastics Injection Molding, Rubber Molding, Thermoforming, Rotational
Molding, Extrusion, Overmolding, etc. experience. I hope I know what I'm
talking about.
> He ALSO suggested that the process that 3SX uses is likely
relatively
> simple in that they pour a plastic mixture in it's liquid
form into a
> mold of some sort and wait for it to harden, then press it
into the
> existing bracket. Molding rubber is a little more
involved according
> to him because it has to be bonded to the steel
bracket.
Obviously, 3SX is not losing money from this - they are smart folks.
What I assume they do with the process is purchase a length of polyurethane that
is the approximate diameter of the mount that is being replaced, cut it to
length, then press it into place. This is what I had to do before I could
stake mine - I had to squeeze it back into the mount first. Why do you
think they are pouring a mixture in there or something? And who says you
need to bond rubber to the steel bracket? Molten rubber will "bond" to
steel quite nicely - which is why it is hard to clean up a molding machine after
it has cooled down rather than when things are all melted.
> Aside from the obvious increase in the transmission of vibration,
he
> said that poly mounts are more likely to shatter when they start to
> wear our and/or deteriorate instead of just slowly crumbling and
> cracking like the rubber ones.
Perhaps, but my stock mounts lasted until 98k miles and were about 7 years
old. 3 of them were cracked nicely so they probably lasted more like 90k
miles and 6 years. If I get the same amount of time/distance out of the
3SX mounts then I will be pleased. I'm sure I will get more than that so I
will be happy. In another 6 years though the car will be 14 years old and
the motor mounts will most likely be the least of my worries as they will now
outlive the car.
> So, anybody know of a rubber manufacturing facility willing to
take on
> the task?
I do, but this is not the right path I believe. Just take your stock
mount with rubber still in there to a place and have them fill it with rubber
and call it "molding." They'll be glad to charge you $85 for that when it
takes about $0.35 of material and 30 minutes of waiting for it to harden.
> As far as how the 3SX mounts are staked, it looked to me to be a
> simple sheet metal screw driven through the outer "hoop" of the steel
> bracket and into the molded urethane. Time will tell if this is
> effective or not.
Yes, this is what they do - why do you sound so negative or skeptical
against it? It works and is a cheap fix. 3SX puts their stake screws
on the bottom to maintain a clean "stock" appearance on top. I put one of
the two screws smack on top of the mount so I can show people the fix or they
can ask about it - no sense hiding it. It was version 1 of their mounts
and version 2 (with stakes) solves this -- I'm not ashamed to note this.
> BY THE WAY.....the mounts from 3SX that I got were NOT "POLISHED" as
> they looked to be on their website, instead they were painted a
> silver/aluminum color that could easily have been re-painted to match
> any under-hood color scheme.
And I'm sure you discussed this with 3SX extensively before publicly
bashing them, right? They were more than helpful in working with me to get
the correct mount for my car, sent a second polished poly mount without waiting
for mine to be shipped. Real nice folks.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:10:03 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
I like 3SX as a company, I just think they have a little to learn...
.
The way I was trying to describe was a very wide mount, filling the entire
area.
http://66.69.13.210:880/~trs/mounts.jpg
The yellow is where I colored in where the prothane mounts take up on the
DSM. For all intents, the mounts are almost identical between platforms as
far as overall size and location... Not saying the 3SX mounts are bad, I
just think they charge too much for them... Again, total cost on mine were
$85 for all 4 mounts, and the only work I had to have done that wouldn't be
included in the 3SX mounts was burning out the old rubber and pressing in the
mount...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:21:41 -0500
From: Jon Paine <
ppainej@attglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts(LONG)
William J. Crabtree wrote:
> Brandon,
>
> I sat
down and searched for my pics of my mounts but came up empty
>
handed....I'll keep looking, SORRY. If you do manage to create your
> own mount, you will be ahead of the game, here's why....
...
> always a yin to a yang. Aside from t he obvious increase in
the
> transmission of vibration, he said that poly mounts are more likely
to
> shatter when they start to wear our and/or deteriorate instead of
just
> slowly crumbling and cracking like the rubber ones.
I have to agree based upon experience with other bushings in suspension
parts. I ended up replacing the poly bushings in my Montero with rubber
when they started to dissolve.
> SO, anybody know of a rubber manufacturing facility willing to take on
> the task?
How about the urethane rubbers sold for making concrete molds? Anyone
use this stuff before? I ran into it when I was researching how to make
pavers. It comes in liquid form with a hardening agent, and in a number
of flexibilities/consistencies from glove soft to rock hard depending
upon the end use of the mold... Seems like this could be an option. I'd
play around with it myself but my mounts are OK so far.
The location of the cross holes in the mount would be the difficult part
unless you have good mounts to work from.
> As far as how the 3SX mounts are staked, it looked to me to be a
> simple sheet metal screw driven through the outer "hoop" of the steel
> bracket and into the molded urethane. Time will tell if this is
> effective or not. BY THE WAY.....the mounts from 3SX that I got
were
> NOT "POLISHED" as they looked to be on their website, instead they
> were painted a silver/aluminum color that could easily have been
> re-painted to match any under-hood color scheme.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:26:16 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Cody,
I'm not sure what you are saying. Why is it necessary to
have the mount filler any wider than the mount? Is that what you are
coloring yellow? The 3SX mounts don't stick out very much wider than the
stock mount housings - do the Prothane ones?
Also, how do you
press them in by yourself? I used a bench vise and had a devil of a time
since there was a pin going straight through it so I couldn't just put the mount
in the vise and press it together. I tried WD-40, PB Penetrant, oil, etc.
and nothing seemed to lubricate it - so that should give an indication of how
tight of a fit this is.
I'm glad I don't do these for a living
and couldn't get the poly pressed back in flush (it was about 1/32" - 1/16" left
to go but that was all I could do at the time). Maybe I needed to make a
blank with a hole in it to fit over the pin but smaller than the ID of the mount
so it pressed on the poly. I didn't want to put too much time into a
one-time thing so I just did it as easily as I could at the time. I also
maxed out the 6" or 8" vise so I suggest something larger than the normal bench
vise.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:31:59 -0400
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr
WRALC/LJET <
Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Door Lock Help.....I need advice really bad!
The door locks on my 94 3k are going crazy...I can't hardly get in or out
of the car, the locks keep flippin back and forth. Is there a relay that
might be bad? Need help quick guys! Thanks in advance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:47:14 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Door Lock Help.....I need advice really bad!
Wow, sounds like there is a rash of these things going around! Does
this only happen when you use the remote? I would guess that you could put
the key in the door, it shouldn't do it then right? And once you get in,
pull the fuse for the door locks and go manual until you can get that figured
out. It sounds to me like a remote control error, maybe even just a weak
battery?
Good luck!
Ken Stanton
91 Pearl White Stealth TT
less than 24hrs
from NG!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:49:27 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 3SX motor mounts
Make that all one link... should work... At any rate, with the mount
material as wide as the space for the mount, the engine will not move forward or
back in its spot, and there is no chance for them to "walk" either...
With proper sized bushings, it should be pretty easy to press them in. On
one of mine, I was actually able to press it in with my hands...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:49:45 -0500
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 3SX
motor mounts(LONG)
William J. Crabtree wrote:
> Brandon,
>
> I sat
down and searched for my pics of my mounts but came up empty
>
handed....I'll keep looking, SORRY. If you do manage to create your
> own mount, you will be ahead of the game, here's why....
-
-------->
Ok, I'll let you guys know how this little "obstacle" comes out,
I fully intend to proceed, full-steam ahead.
Jon Paine wrote:
>How about the urethane rubbers sold for making
concrete molds? Anyone
>use this stuff before? I ran into it when I was
researching how to make
>pavers. It comes in liquid form with a hardening
agent, and in a number
>of flexibilities/consistencies from glove soft to
rock hard depending
>upon the end use of the mold... Seems like this
could be an option. I'd
>play around with it myself but my mounts are OK
so far.
- ------------>
Ok, I'll let you all in on a little secret, if
you didn't know about this amazing resource already,
www.mcmaster.com is probably the MOST
convenient place I've found to order raw materials from. If you go to their
homepage, then scroll down to "Raw Materials and Springs" and click on
"Polyurethane" (noting how many OTHER materials you can get, I intend to get
some ABS plastic from the, you guessed it, "Plastics" link), click "rubber",
click "rods" under form, and there they have a wonderful "durometer" which helps
you select the hardness of your product. Their hardnesses range from stuff as
soft as chewing gum and racquetballs to as hard as bowling balls and hard hats.
Great resource, and I'd recommend you check it out if you're looking to re-work
your mounts, or for ANY project for that matter. In fact, I went through their
website for some plastics to manufacture a new dome light, consisting of
high-output LED's instead of those damn bulbs that I can't find replacements for
in this god-forsaken town...
>The location of the cross holes in the mount would be the difficult
>part unless you have good mounts to work from.
-
------------>
Agreed, that's what I foresee being a problem. However,
didn't the earlier versions of 3SX mounts just have the cross pins centered in
the bushing, causing headache for the installers, yet it was still possible? I
thought I remembered something about that...
Darren Schilberg wrote:
>Also, how do you press them in by
yourself? I used a bench vise and
>had a devil of a time since
there was a pin going straight through it
>so I couldn't just put the
mount in the vise and press it together. I
>tried WD-40, PB
Penetrant, oil, etc. and nothing seemed to lubricate it
>- so that should
give an indication of how tight of a fit this is.
-
----------------->
Well, to press them in, I intend to use a manual press.
While a bench vise may suffice (ESPECIALLY if you don't have access to a press),
a fully bonafide press would probably make the job easier. (Isn't there an old
adage about using the right tool and making the job easier or something like
that?... No offense Darren.) I believe a press has more mechanical advantage
than an ordinary bench vise, making lubricants unnecessary. You are right though
Darren, it should be a pretty tight squeeze, and I'm sure it's for a reason! =0)
There's actually specifications for diameters to be used for press-fit
applications, if anyone's interested in them, I can dig up my "Machine Design"
book and dig them up, I'm sure they're in there somewhere... Thanks for all the
discussion guys!
-b
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:57:29 -0500
From: "Wieschhaus, Brandon Kenneth
(UMR-Student)" <
bwish@umr.edu>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Door
Lock Help.....I need advice really bad!
Since this has also happened to me, in my problem-ridden car, I feel I
should chime in again... Sorry. I would agree with Ken that pulling the doorlock
relay or perhaps the fuse will work for the time being, just operate the locks
the old-fashioned way --- manually. That's what I did for awhile... My problem
however, apparently has NOTHING to do with the remote, since I don't even have
one. =0) So we'll need our experts to guess a little more before we can get to
the root of this one I think...
-b
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#199
***************************************
