Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, July 3
2003 Volume 02 : Number 195
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Two-three months ago I had my 60k service done at the dealership, things
run fine regarding that. The car is a 1992 Dodge Stealth TT. Last Friday
I had the Fuel filter replaced, again by the dealership. As of today,
Wednesday the is now turning over very slowly, once it starts it runs
great but it is beginning to turn slower and slower. The car just turned
68k today.
I checked the voltage on the battery without the engine
running,
12.75-12.8. I did not get a chance to check it running.
My
question. Is it possible the dealership might have pulled a wire
loose? or
not re-tightened a wire that would cause this?
Is the starter on that side,
by the fuel filter?
At what mileage have persons had their starters go
out?
Could it be the alternator?
any and all advice is appreciated.
Thanks
Greg Gonzales
92 RT
TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:23:14 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Car turning over VERY slowly
My guess is the battery is slowly on its way out... Either that, or the
alternator isn't quite up to full charging capacity, so the battery isn't
getting full charge. Really the only electrical connections to check are
the battery terminals for tightness and cleanliness... That's actually a
good possibility, now that I think fuel filter, because the fuel filter is right
below the battery...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:42:32 -0600
From: Greg Gonzales <
stealth@fitnessolutions.com>
Subject:
Fwd: Re: Team3S: Car turning over VERY slowly UPDATE
ok I went outside and checked the connections right after my
email...well they were loose..damn dealership..you pay them money and I
have to double check their work? So I cleaned everything, cause it
looked like it needed it, and tightened everything back up, the first
start from this was slow. I let it run for 10 minutes and stopped and
started again...starts like it used to start previous to me taking it
in. I let it run some more shut it off and again, did this a few times,
starts 100% better. I hope this was the issue.
Thanks for the information that was provided!
Greg Gonzales
92
RT TT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 21:57:57 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fw: '94 Stealth tt stereo mods
HUZZAH!!!
Success guys!! The DIN cable on the infinity factory head units
can be tapped and converted to RCA jacks for an aftermarket AMP. I'll have
to get my notes that I made to give you all the details, but it worked!!
- -Jeff C.
St. Louis, MO
------------------------------
No, I won't have to be uncool at the National Gathering! A set of used oil
cooler lines are being shipped overnight to me from California and they
will be on my car tomorrow. I might even go to the 4th of July Corvette
autocross on Friday to test and tune things. :-)
Philip
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:29:57 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Update: Looking for a normal 3S windshield
After eight (8!) windshields I finally got myself a normal windshield. I
went through three warped and four scratched windshields, two of which were
installed on the car, before I got this last one. This windshield is made
by PPG, just as some of the warped windshields, however it is very good
optically. I noticed a minor distortion in the lower left corner, but that
was mostly because I became such a pro inspecting bad windshields. In
contrast to all the gross defects on my other windshields, which were in
the plain view, this one is not visible at all when installed on the car.
:-)
Philip
At 11:38 PM 6/3/2003, Philip V. Glazatov wrote:
>I replaced it early
in April. The moment I drove out of the shop I
>almost ran over a curb.
The windshield was warped and wavy and was distorting
>everything near
the A-pillars. I had no time left, so I went to Road
>America with a
distorted windshield.
------------------------------
I have a problem with my A/C on a '92 Stealth base.
The compressor constantly turns on and off. When I turn the A/C on, I hear
a click from the compressor. Air gets nice and cold. But it doesn't always stay
on, sometimes, after a bit I hear a click as the clutch disengages. The clutch
doesn't always engage when I press the a/c button either. Sometimes it turns on,
sometimes nothing. but when its on, it works great. Anyone know what could be a
issue here. Weather is hot, and being parked in the sun with a sunroof with no
shade, makes for almost an unbearable experience. Also as I drive I get cold
air, but if I listen, I can hear the clutch clicking on and off. Loose
connection?? is there some other safety switch??
If I need a charge of refrigerant, what could I use as an alternative. I
been reading on Autofrost as an alternative to changing to r134a. It says it
performs almost like r12. But r12 in Canada is pretty much next to impossible to
get. And I can't afford changing to 134a.
And suggestions?
Thanks
Jason
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 07:23:05 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: A/C Issues/DURACOOL
I'm looking into something called Duracool since I have the exact symptoms
you have. it's a LP based so it's flammable but it's also non-toxic which 134A
IS REALLY toxic I hear. Also 134A is corrosive and this Duracool stuff isn't. It
is made in Canada so you might find it easier then I, I can't seem to find a
retailer for it, just web adds. anyway from everything I have read it's
compatible with R12 oils AND with R12 itself it seems although it's not Legal
here to change refrigerants without LEGALY draining out all the old. Personally
they can bite me, if it goes in mixed & functions safely I'm doing it. I
live in Phoenix & it's as hot as hell right now. I'm screamingly busy at
work these days and have not taken as much time as I usually do to research this
in the depth I normally do. wonder if anyone on the list has used this.
Pete Rivenburg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:25:50 -0400
From: "Mark Creekmore" <
mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: A/C Issues
I have the exact same problem on my 92' Stealth RT/TT. I have done some
research, but have not been able to fix the problem. If I get the AC to turn on
and keep the car under 3000 rpms, it seems to stay on (most of the time). There
is a control module under the glove compartment called a belt lock controller or
something like that. This module reads a sensor on the AC unit and compares it
to the engine rpms. I tried replacing the control module (because it's easy to
get to) and that didn't work. That would lead me to believe that the sensor on
the AC unit is bad. The dealership says that the sensor is not sold separately
and I would have to replace the entire AC unit. I would guess that you might be
able to find a junk yard AC unit and pull off the sensor. I haven't tried this
yet, but the car is a lot less fun to drive when it's 80 degrees outside.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:59:54 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: I wanna sue the bastards
Joe,
"Wrong"?. There are *always* shades of truth or responsibility or wrongness
in all issues - at least that is what our legislative, executive, and judicial
systems in this country would have us believe. Besides, I am not talking about
legal issues.
Just for the record let's quickly review. Rich had the transaxle replaced
*3* years ago. The warranty lasted *1* year. That means the transaxle was *2*
years out of warranty.
After the 1 year period, I have no idea if Rich has warranty or other legal
recourse or not. That is not my point. Rich is an experienced owner that *knew*
his transaxle was leaking, *knew* that eventually the transaxle would be empty
of gear oil, and absolutely *knew* the consequences of that. Rich has often
warned us all that the Getrag transaxles fails after 60,000 miles (mine is at
63,000 presently) and he even told us years ago about this fantastic deal he got
at a local dealership to get his transaxle replaced.
Even if Rich wanted to pursue a warranty or other claim against Mitsu or
the dealership, he had both the ethical and moral responsibility to maintain the
fluid level in his transaxle, regardless of whose fault it was that the
transaxle leaked. Legal issues in this country often have no basis in common
sense and so I don't address those at all.
I am simply saying it is Rich's fault that the gear box ran out of oil.
And I am saying that it is Rich's (and all of ours) responsibility to
maintain to the best of his (our) ability the roadworthiness of his (our) car.
To deliberately or negligently put a car on the road that is unsafe to the
driver, passenger, or other sharers of the road is unethical and immoral - *in
my opinion*.
I apply this same reasoning to myself. I know my engine leaks oil. I pretty
much think it is the oil pan seal (RTV) that is leaking (near transaxle side of
engine). And I am sure it is my engine rebuilder's fault that this is occurring.
The leak has been there since I got the car back after the engine rebuild (Jan
1999). I check the oil regularly and keep it topped up. I planned to reseal the
oil pan this Spring but didn't get to it. I'll take care of it this Fall or next
Spring. The mechanic didn't get it right the first time. What assurance would I
have he could do it right the next time? (Yep, he said there is a 70,000 mile
warranty on the rebuild.) I'll just take care of it (the mechanic now lives 170
miles away).
Is it the engine builder's fault the oil leaks? Yes. If the engine runs out
of oil and the bearings seize is it the engine builder's fault? No. It would be
mine. Would I have some legal recourse to get re-imbursed for getting the oil
leak fixed by someone besides the re-builder? Perhaps.
And that is my point. Mitsu did not and maybe could not repair the
transaxle (One young friend of mine had his '92 TT Getrag replaced 3 times by a
dealership in the Denver area. After the third failed attempt he sold the TT and
bought a Mustang Cobra). Yet Rich and nearly all of us know that there are many
competent repair shops that could fix the leak (Kormex for example, and others
are listed at my web site). Rich always had the option of getting the transaxle
repaired and then taking legal or other action against Mitsu or the dealership
for reimbursement.
Legal issues aside, this is just my *opinion*, as I stated in my original
response (quoted below). Take it for whatever you want.
Joe, I am not so sure opinions can be "wrong". Your calling me wrong is
just your opinion also.
Regardless of right or wrong or fault, for those owners that know or
suspect that their transaxle or transfer case leaks (are there oil drops under
the car?), let me tell you something. It *will* stop leaking eventually if the
oil is not replenished. When the oil is low or absent, wear on the gears and
bearings accelerates. Eventually the transfer case or transaxle can lock up. If
this happens at freeway speeds in traffic the results possibly can be
fatal.
However, there may not be a reason to panic about this. The same engine
builder mentioned above neglected to fill my transfer case after the rebuild.
After he drove the car to my house (170+ miles) and I drove it a little, I had
the level checked (yes, one of the two times my TT has seen a dealership). The
TC was empty of oil. Though its life has probably been shortened a little, it
still works 10,000 miles later.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd:
Re: Team3S: Car turning over VERY slowly UPDATE
I'd take the car for a good 30 minute spin to ensure
battery is fully
charged. Then stop by Sears on the
way back and buy some tools.
That way instead of #@!& dealership you can say %#$& me! FYI, the
fuel filter replacement is so well documented by Erik Gross (Thanks!), that my
dog could do it. Most other service items have been documented in a
similar manner (Thanks Jeff, John, Rich, and the rest).
And you won't have problems like this as often. If
it's your car,
you take longer.
Here is a side note about dealership service. They
charge you what
'the book' says the job takes. If
'the book' says 1hr and they do it in
20 minutes - you
pay for 1 hr. So it's not $78 an hour, in
reality
it's over $100/hr.
I was getting a tour of the local Land Rover service department.
Right there in plain sight, a grease board with 'productivity percentages' The
#1 mechanic was at 166 percent (13.25 hours charged for 8 hours work). The
lowest was 98 percent. My guess is mr 98 percent won't be working there
too long.
So remember that next time your car won't start
because the battery
clamps were not tightened up. The
#$!@ dealership pressured the
mechanic to finish in
less time then they charged you for.
Glenn
------------------------------
>Just for the record let's quickly review. Rich had the transaxle
>replaced
*3* years ago. The warranty lasted *1* year. That means the
transaxle was
*2* years out of warranty.
Actually, it was the transmission. The new one started leaking immediately.
The dealership tried everything to cure it, including installing a Mitsubishi
"fix" that didn't work, all during the warranty period. After the warranty
period, they said that's all they could do.
I checked the computer at the
dealer, and all the gory details are embedded within.
>
>Rich is an
experienced owner that *knew* his transaxle was leaking,
>*knew*
that
eventually the transaxle would be empty of gear oil, and absolutely
*knew*
the consequences of that.
Everytime the car was serviced or went up on a rack, I checked the fluid.
That's not the easiest thing to do, you know. It doesn't have a dipstick.
>
>I am simply saying it is Rich's fault that the gear box ran out
of oil.
>
Ultimately, I s'pose that's correct. I DID NOT crawl under
the car once a week to check the tranny fluid. Checked it regularly, but not
every week.
>Rich always had the option of getting the transaxle repaired and
then
taking legal or other action against Mitsu or the dealership for
reimbursement.
Sure...just go out to the money tree and take off another $3,600 to stop a
leak. Why didn't I think of that? What a great idea!
Y'know, when you spend $3,600 to get a brand new tranny, you expect it to
last more than 18,000 miles and not leak fluid all over the street. Just the
fact that it only lasted 18,000 miles is reason enough for Mitsu to give me a
new tranny.
Unless Mitsu acknowledges that they installed a bad tranny from the gitgo
and gives me a new one, we have all learned a lesson: Don't rely on a Mitsu
warranty. Instead, buy your 3000GT, Stealth, EVO, Lancer or other Mitsubishi car
from a GM dealer and get the GM aftermarket warranty. GM stands behind that
warranty. Let's see if Mitsu stands behind this one.
By the bye, I have taken step one in my quest: I visited the Mitsu dealer,
and wrote a nice letter to them asking that Mitsubishi honor the original
warranty.
I found that Kormex has rebuilt trannies available for $1700 plus $250
shipping (both ways) plus a $750 refundable core charge. My local Stealth
buddies can't wait to jump into a tranny replacement project, so it looks like
I'll have all the help I need to tackle the job. I'm just waiting on a decision
from Mitsu and the dealer before proceeding.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:54:29 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: I wanna sue the bastards
>> Actually, it was the transmission.
Rich,
For the VR4/TT (and the FWD's), the transmission IS the transaxle.
"Transaxle" is a subset of the broader group "transmission". A transmission that
contains a differential and has two driveshafts attached (either front as in our
cars or rear as in newer Corvettes) is called a transaxle.
Hope your situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: glenn vrfour <
vr4glenn@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: I wanna sue the bastards
1) cars are not supposed to leak fluids, especially
from brand new
parts.
2)Is checking the transaxle fluid in the owners
manual? If it is,
it's probably not as often as Rich
had been checking it.
3) Don't wait until a leaking part fails (3 years) to
sue a
manufacturer/installer that gave you a 1 yr
warrantee.
Should you decide to sue, I'd take the owners manual
with you (showing
service interval - if any) your
records of how often you checked/refilled,
and the
pages from the service manual that document how
stinkin' hard it
is to check. Get the right judge,
you might get lucky. (and don't
mention that you race
the car!)
Glenn
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
------------------------------
>3) Don't wait until a leaking part fails (3 years) to
>sue a
manufacturer/installer that gave you a 1 yr
>warrantee.
Sue for what?
I think it has to fail first, then you
sue.
>
>Should you decide to sue, I'd take the owners
manual
>with you (showing service interval - if any) your
>records
of how often you checked/refilled, and the
>pages from the service manual
that document how
>stinkin' hard it is to check. Get the right
judge,
>you might get lucky. (and don't mention that you race
>the
car!)
>
Good advice. I do plan to sue if they don't come through with a
new tranny.
Rich.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:54:47 +0000
From:
mjannusch@comcast.netSubject: Re:
Team3S: I wanna sue the bastards
> Sue for what?
> I think it has to fail first, then you
sue.
The replaced a bad part with a defective part. The new one shouldn't
need to
fail - its already bad from the start.
Of course some dealers will do all they can to avoid having to fix their
mistakes or lose a little short-term revenue.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:03:08 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
I wanna sue the bastards
>>3) Don't wait until a leaking part fails (3 years)
to
>>sue a manufacturer/installer that gave you a 1
yr
>>warrantee.
>Sue for what? I think it has to fail first, then you sue.
Actually, Rich, as a new part replacement, gear oil leakage is a pretty
critical problem. Especially a leak as bad as you describe. Failure
to fix this under warranty is a violation of the presented warranty. BBB
time. Right away. That fluid leak IS a failure, in every sense of
the
word: the seal has failed, the seal is part of the
transaxle
(transmission) and it is (was) under warranty as a whole.
If they (the dealership) dismissed you with a response of "sorry, that's as
good as it gets" you needed to raise holy hell right then and there. It is
possible that a judge would have decided your way out of warranty, but not *two
years* out of warranty. I don't think you have any recourse at this point,
legally.
Just got this confirmed by my lawyer, asked him about it when discussing
another matter. Tom is a business lawyer, and a damn good
(and
expensive) one, top reputation in the area. He knows his
stuff.
Nick
93 VR-4 (Which still has no trans... UPS is tracing the crate as
we
speak)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:07:10 -0600
From: Janice Findlay <
jefind@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S: rear
bumper
Does anyone know where I can get a remanufactured or used 94-96 Dodge
Stealth R/T or Twin model rear bumper? All I can find anywhere is a new
one. Thanks Andrew
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#195
***************************************