Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Thursday, June 26
2003 Volume 02 : Number 190
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:14:32 -0400
From: "Gil Gomes" <
gil@3kgt.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What
color is my car?
Jeff:
That database is now available on line as well.
Mike was nice enough to send me a delimited ASCII file. Check it out
at...
db.3kgt.org
- -Gil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:22:00 -0400
From: "Gil Gomes" <
gil@3kgt.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock
Alarm not working
There is no stock alarm in a '95 Base...
- -Gil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:45:50 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Part pricing
Brandon, I (reluctantly) purchased many of my parts from Lous Fusz Mitsu
during my rebuild. The guys out at the St. Peters location seem more
congenial than the guys at the main location in Ellisville. Most of the
time the St. Peters guys would show me list and then what I was paying for the
item. The Ellisville guys would just give me my "discounted" price....so I
never really knew if I was getting the discount or not.
- -Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:21:15 -0400
From: Russ Williams <
3000gt@wildweaselweb.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Glow Gauges for Sale
I have a set of Glow Gauges (6 Piece) for sale if anyone is
interested
in them. It comes with the Gauge Faces and the
Transformer. They
are ones that are white in the day and can be
changed with a dial from green
to blue in varying shades. They are
for a Non-Turbo, 160 MPH
Max.
Email me if interested. I'm not looking to make a killing, just to
move them along to a good owner.
Thanks,
Russ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:02:09 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: will the 4 stock wheels fit in the car?
The biggest problem I see is the tire speed rating... So long as you
got a H rated or better tire for the trailer, it shouldn't be a problem. Keep in
mind a H rated tire will carry close to 3/4 or less what a similarly sized
trailer tire will carry...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:24:15 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S:
Removing rear upper control arms
I'm getting ready to replace my rear upper control arms with 3SX adjustable
control arms and I'm wondering if there are any tips for getting the
control arm bolt (wheel end) out of the trailing arm connection. I have the
nut off and have yet to pry or pound to get the bolt out. The other end of
this bolt is a ball joint.
Thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
Can I tow a VR-4 about 900+ miles or do I need a full size car carrier for
it? If I can tow it do I do it frontward, backward, disconnect drive shaft
etc.
Thanks
Dan Labonte
------------------------------
full sized car carrier, else disconnect the drive shaft and put the front
wheels on the dolly.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:24:50 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
For various reasons, it is generally understood that on an all wheel drive
vehicle, all four wheels should be off the pavement while towing.
Removing the driveshaft may prevent damage to the drivetrain, but there are
other components that my suffer from towing the vehicle such distances at
highway speed.
- -Jeff C.
------------------------------
..and dump the oil outta the center housing.
Flatbed it.
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:38:53 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
What about towing it with a hitch - no dolly, all four wheels on the
ground?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:41:18 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
Ouch. No can do.
------------------------------
Ok..don't DO that.
You will fry the drivetrain. Its that simple. Its in the
manual, and referenced probly 10,000 times between here, 3si.org, and a # of
other places.
But even if you removed the rear shaft and dollied the front..you will
drain the oil out of the center housing.
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:47:39 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
Why? If it's in neutral, all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed... why
would it fry?
------------------------------
Because its NOT in neutral in the tranny. Stuff is still
spinning.
Like..the viscous coupling..
Of course, you CAN tow it..until the VC burns out and/or locks up.
Wont take long.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:55:38 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
Geoff all, how would this be any different from coasting on the highway
with the car in neutral??? Same thing is occurring on the engine isn't
on?????
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:58:37 -0500
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
But the viscous coupling only heats (significantly) when there is a speed
difference between front and rear axles. I mean how is towing w/ a hitch
different than coasting down a hill in neutral?
------------------------------
Kinda..but when are you coasting at 50mph for 50miles?
The VC isn't meant to be powered from outside the car for extended
periods.
Lets just TRUST that fact that people who have been towed improperly for
short distances HAVE lost their drivetrains..plus the fact the manual says
everything short of fission will happen if you do this too.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:09:23 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Towing VR-4
> Why? If it's in neutral, all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed...
> why would it fry?
Not the same car, but it has AWD and 3 differentials... A friend of
mine towed his WRX in neutral (engine off) for 50 miles at 50-60mph this
weekend. He used a pickup with a tow strap. Car's fine.
It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but I don't see a huge
difference in carefully towing a car with all wheels on the ground vs.
coasting. It's not like you're in gear and have a significant resistance
for the drivetrain to overcome. There are no engine-driven pumps to
lubricate driveline parts, and the differentials should not get appreciably
hot. Assuming you don't start/stop suddenly and you keep the speeds
reasonable, I don't see what you could trash. Perhaps wearing the "other"
side of the teeth on the gears, but that seems like a long shot...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:29:05 -0700
From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <
privenburg@firstam.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
Some trannies, notably automatics but also it's rumored some manuals DO
have pumps driven by the input shaft only, towing is BAD for them. All manual
trannies & transfer cases I have been into have been splash/rotation
lubricated though, since I HAVEN'T been into a VR4 tranny or transfer case,
opinion withheld. Err on the side of caution, it sounds cheaper.
Pete Rivenburg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:39:51 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
That's how we got my VR-4 from Oklahoma City to home (Omaha, NE): trans was
out, driveshaft was out, used a front end tow dolly, and went about 45 for the
entire trip. The problem came down to Uhaul in Edmund OK (where we picked
up the car) telling us that the Toyota Land Cruiser we were using didn't "rate"
the flatbed, despite having a class 3 hitch and more than enough horse
power.
In my case, it was a command decision. 50+ miles from home with a car
I couldn't move otherwise. We've dismantled the car IN DETAIL and can find
nothing unusually worn. We'll see I suppose when I put the thing
together.
Nick
93 VR-4 (nothing snazzy to say today)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:42:02 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
No, there is no pump driven by the input shaft on the Getrag w5mg. I should
know, I've torn mine apart twice now.
BUT WHY RISK IT!?!?!
If the manual says don't tow it wheels down, don't tow it wheels
down. You have a $5000 transmission that's attached to a $1200 transfer
case. If you can't afford a tow dolly for the car, then have the car
shipped to it's destination. It's that simple.
- -Jeff Crabtree
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:54:35 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Passenger side driveshaft, VR-4
OK, is there a difference between the front driveshafts from earlier cars
and newer? I know that there's a difference with the center (rear)
driveshaft, e.g. 18 or 25 spline, but can 91 front driveshafts mate up to a 93
trans?
Nick
92 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:00:13 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Towing VR-4
My car has been towed a few times already. This means, all four wheels on
the ground with a tow-bar or tow-rope. For this, on the second gens we have a
removable insert in the bumper on the left intercooler front. Behind we can
screw inn the hook for the tow rope. Just let the car in neutral and no problems
at all. But never have it towed by two wheels in the air, either front or
rear.
Roger G, Switzerland
93' & 96'3000GT TT
------------------------------
That's it..the trans was out. There's where the damage results.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:06:46 -0700
From: "Guy, Michael (CS)" <
michael.guy@ngc.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Towing VR-4
I was told by a tow company that they would not recommend towing a AWD/4x4
with any wheels on the ground. Flatbed only. I don't know if this helps at all.
But if you wanted to get your car towed by a tow company and you had one of the
above. You have to sign a waiver saying to wanted this and they are 'not'
responsible for any damages caused by their towing it this way.
Personally, I wouldn't tow my car any other way than a flatbed...whether it
was 100 feet down the road or 100 miles. Around my yard is another story.
I have also heard that the removal of the drive shaft is only really useful
on a RWD car. When the rear wheels are on the ground. Something to do with the
transmission? I don't remember.
Mike G.
92 SOHC Stealth
82 4x4 Ford F-150. Towed only by flatbed
multiple times.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:18:45 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Towing VR-4
Nah, towing with a rope is null problemo. What if you drive your car with
100mph and press the clutch or put the shifter in neutral ??? Dude, it's
absolutely the same :-))
Roger G.
93 & 96 3000GT TT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:06:42 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
Distance! I understand the caution, because, yes, you can coast your
car, but you generally don't coast 500 or even 50 miles. It's worth being
wary about. I have (parts wise) a $10,000 car, and like everyone else,
this is a little bit of money in my book. Worth being careful over.
IMHO, removing the driveshaft should be OK for a not-too-long tow at
reasonable speed. I wouldn't take it fast, though.
Nick
93 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:08:47 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Towing VR-4
I don't see how it's the same. You won't be coasting for 50 miles
with no exchange of lubricants/coolants when you drive your car at 100 mph and
press the clutch and coast a bit. I just wouldn't take the chance.
Also, some AWD cars have trouble tracking when towing with all 4 down. I
don't know if the 3K/S is one of them, but I wouldn't take the
chance.
I knew when this message was first posted that it would provoke differing
opinions, because I know this topic has been discussed on 3SI on numerous
occasions with the same result--that is, if you want to risk it, do it.
:-)
<<Nah, towing with a rope is null problemo. What if you drive your
car with 100mph and press the clutch or put the shifter in neutral ??? Dude,
it's absolutely the same :-))>>
------------------------------
You mind if we use your car and test that for 30 miles?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:28:28 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <
eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Towing VR-4
Sorry, I mean towed on back wheels only with the transverse driveshaft
removed. Thought I should clarify. Disconnecting the rear would of
course still leave the front wheels engaged.
Nick
93 VR-4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:58:12 -0600
From: Fraser Family <
b-mfraser@shaw.ca>
Subject: Team3S:
getting the transfer case recall done
Hello all,
So I just got the transfer case ordered to have the recall done on my 92
TT, and I'm wondering if there's anything important I should know before it gets
done. Never having had any experience with recalls, I have no idea how it works,
or what to expect. Seeing as how it's going to a dealer, should I expect the
usual 8 month turn around time before I get my car back? Are there any costs
that I'm going to incur?
Thanks once again,
Sean Fraser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:25:09 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Towing VR-4
I don't know a whole lot about the towing aspect as far as distance, but in
the area I used to live, there were many "winter Texans" who would travel from
up north to live in the nicer climates of south Texas during the winter...
I recall having a few conversations regarding their car choice, and even on
a FWD car, certain cars take to being "drug" behind the vehicle better than
others. Some require small modifications to be able to be drug behind a
motorhome or whatnot (they never use tow dolly's, just the bumper bar)
If 2wd cars have a problem being drug on the ground, I wouldn't think there
was any way that AWD cars would like it much more...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:46:17 -0400
From: "Willard R. Semple Sr."
<
beowulf@del.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Towing VR-4
Hi Guys,
I feel that we have beaten this subject enough. If the
manual says not
to do it, then don't. Why don't we acquire some input
from the
engineers out there on a subject dear to my heart. Awhile back
there was
quite a discussion about the rear spoilers on both the Stealth and
the
3Kgt. No one ever mentioned that the stealth spoiler is a reverse
airfoil. And that it also features a venturi. How about it? Any comments.
Looking for answers.
Will Semple
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:01:41 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <
mjannusch@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Towing VR-4
> I don't see how it's the same. You won't be coasting for 50
miles
> with no exchange of lubricants/coolants when you drive your car at
100
> mph and press the clutch and coast a bit. I just wouldn't
take the
> chance.
The front differential should sling plenty of oil around since it is a
rather large gear assembly that sits partially immersed in the tranny fluid.
Would I tow it far? Probably not. If I had no other choice, and it
was for 20 miles or less - probably.
Of course, having said that - I have a Chevy Avalanche and a flatbed
trailer to tote my car around when needed. If you can avoid towing it with
any wheels on the ground, you might as well avoid it and do it the right way -
with a flatbed. Its worth the extra money for peace of mind alone.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:49:53 -0400
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: getting the transfer case recall done
When I had my car done, they had it for one day. I dropped it of in the
morning and picked it up the next day after work. I would describe it as smooth
and easy.
Joseph
93 3KGT VR4
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#190
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