Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Monday, June 16
2003 Volume 02 : Number 181
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:03:22 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Re: Team3S: Rotor and pads?
Jim makes a good point, I should have stated that I plan on doing very
little, if any "racing" with my car. She will primarily be a garage queen
and something fun to play in on warm summer days.(I've got my Jeep if I want to
beat something up...much cheaper to fix!!) I may get it out on a track at
some point to see what she's capable of, but serious competition is out of the
question.
I just want my brakes to stop making my steering wheel wobble as I come to
a stop, and if they LOOKED cool (like the stillen rotors do), all the
better!
Are the Kevlar pads worth it for me? I like the part where there's
less brake dust on my wheels!!!! Would they work with the (cool looking)
stillen rotors for street use?
- -Jeff Crabtree
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:12:16 -0400
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
possible FS
Hey guys,
I think I'm just about ready to move up to a Spyder. As a result, I
am looking at selling my '95 VR4, and don't quite know what's a reasonable price
for it, so here's the deal:
The good stuff -
'95 VR4
90k highway miles
new (<10k) yoko avs
es100 rubber (245 45/17)
17" fittipaldi rims
blitz dsbc-id ebc (set with
the cut off at 14.8 psi, doesn't boost past
that)
blocked off egr
kn
intake
rps stage 2 clutch
'99 front-end (with '95 headlights - I kept it
that way because I like the '95 headlights better) all the standard goodies
(changer, etc.) 60k done at 70k with new tbelt tensioner, pump, accessory belts,
fuel filter, thermostat, ngk double platinum plugs @ .032, wires (oem) and
whatever gaskets the manual calls for (tb, plenum, etc.) new Porterfield r4s
pads all around, Motul fluid, mobil1 synthetic every 3k w/ new oem filter every
time. The paint is new - the car got keyed all around and I had it repainted I
can leave in (at buyer's discretion) Sirius satellite radio.
Now for the not so good stuff
It needs a new transmission. It's drivable
(as I do drive it every day), but second grinds if you shift too fast. It may be
rebuildable, but I don't quite know.
So the big question is what's this worth? Other than the trans, the car is
in great shape. I am perfectly capable of putting in a new trans myself, but
don't have the time right now, so if I don't lose too much selling as is over
fixing it myself, I will... the prices I saw on 3si and other places put a car
like this with a working transmission at the 14k mark. I figure if I duck it 3k
that would be reasonable? So - 11k?
I still owe on this car, and I don't wanna come out owing still...
Any takers/advice?
Thanks,
Alex
BTW, I'm in Chicago
------------------------------
Do not overtighten your filler plug on your Getrag, the pic in the link
below is the result.....and I didn't feel like I was cranking it hard at
all.
- -Jeff Crabtree
P.S. Fixed it with some "metal" epoxy......and holding....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:40:59 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
I have had a SRS warning light on my dash for YEARS now (even since before
my accident that took my car out of service 4+ years ago). I'm tired of
looking at the bastard!! I've read and re-read the service
manual. It has a chart showing diagnostic codes and their relevant
troubleshooting procedures.
It DOES NOT have a description of how to obtain these codes. It looks
to me like pin #8 on the ODB plug is associated with the SRS system.
Hooking up an analog meter (like you can do for the MPI system(check engine
light)) would be pointless because I cannot find a chart that shows any "Morse
code" type pulse readings(like you get from the MPI system) that you would get
from doing so. Is there any other way to diagnose the fault code that has
been set BESIDES going to the dealer? I've checked the front impact
sensors using the methods that the book describes and they check out, so I'd
like to know what's causing the fault rather than just randomly replacing parts
and crossing my fingers.
Course....I could just take the damn bulb out.
- -Jeff Crabtree
'91 R/T TT (3SI# 0499)
2K Jeep TJ
Sport
St. Louis, MO
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:11:41 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Team3S: Rotor and pads?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
> Just ignore old
Forrest Grump, he gets all pissy when you don't use
> the archives or look
at the Team3s pages ;-)
> Are you talking of rebuilding the
caliper/rotor/pad combo or just the
> rotors and pads.
> There are
multiple rotor/pad options but for the most part the kits
> that include
the calipers tend to start around $2000 and go up from there.
> In
addition you, should define the type of duty you plan on subjecting
> the
car to. Road racing warrants a more serious upgrade than street
use.
> Jim Berry
-
-------------------------------
That's *Mister* Grump to other POWG's... ;-) What you don't
realize is that Jeff Crabtree and I have been friends since he was just a
kidlet, and I've been a nut-crusher since way before that... ;-)
The full Big Red brake upgrade kit that Geoff is developing (calipers,
brackets, rotors, pads, SS lines and fluid, I think...) is the entry level one,
and it's somewhat below $2000. Then is the Big Black kit, of F-50 rotors
and all the same kit stuff for $2400, the AP Racing kit is somewhere in the $3k
range. For a simple daily driver brake upgrade, you can get just
Porterfield rotors and R4 pads (front), R4-S pads (rear), from Geoff or any of
the other "Good Guys" dealers and vendors on the Team3S site... Right,
Jim!?!
;-) Come to think of it, we have a brake upgrade page listing
the more expensive upgrade offerings - the link is on our FAQ Index page, Tires,
Wheels, Brakes Section...
I'm filling in Geoff's info, since I was just at his house earlier, and as
I was leaving, he was about to haul a 4-foot HDTV satellite dish (installed on 6
feet of 2" racing rollcage stock!) up a 60-degree incline behind his house. I
don't DO rock climbing, so I left. ;-) Best,
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:46:55 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
>> Hooking up an analog meter (like you can do for the MPI
system(check
>> engine light)) would be pointless because I cannot
find a chart that
>> shows any "Morse code" type pulse readings
The SRS codes are available in the 1991 Body - SRS Air Bag System
Diagnostics Procedure Manual for Dodge Stealth published by Chrysler. I have a
copy. I don't know if Chrysler Pubs still sells them. I see them for sale
occasionally on eBay.
The codes are also available in the Service Manual (at least in my 1992
Dodge Stealth manual in section 23B, pages 16-17).
I imagine the codes are translated into pulses just like they are for the
MPI system. Long pulses are multiplied by ten. Short pulses are multiplied by 1.
So a long pulse followed by three short pulses would be the number 13.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:18:44 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
If your car has been out of service for 4+ years, that is what's causing
the code. When the reference voltage in the SRS brain goes below a certain
level, it sets an SRS fault code. The fault code is "user resettable" by
switching the ignition on and off more than 10 times in one minute (or something
like that), provided it does not reach "critically low" voltage. If it
reaches "critically low" voltage, the SRS light must be reset by the dealer
using the MUT-II.
The most common cause of this type fault is allowing the battery to slowly
drain. So if you left your car out of service for 4+ years, and the
battery slowly drained, this is probably your problem. Dodge/Mitsu is
aware of this problem (in fact, there's a TSB on it), and shouldn't charge you
to get it reset, but some dealers do. My dealer charged me $60, but
Chrysler refunded me the money because the glitch affects a safety feature of
the car.
Hope that helps
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:21:34 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Re: Team3S: Rotor and pads?
Does this combination "grab" too much for everyday street use? I'm
thinking of doing a brake upgrade as well, but don't want to be eating my
steering wheel every time I go to slow down!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:45:52 -0700
From: "Grd4Spd Racing" <
grd4spdracing@cox.net>
Subject:
RE: Re: Team3S: Rotor and pads?
> Does this combination "grab" too much for everyday street use?
no.
actually the Porterfield R4S pads are great for daily and weekend
spirited/track day/autocross driving without the detrimental side effects of a
street driven full blown race pad (like the R4 pad). the R4S pads warm up
quickly, resist fade very well, provide excellent feedback/modulation, produce
very little dust and are almost silent in their operation. dare I say
Porterfield has developed a near "perfect" street/track day/high performance
pad.
if you are looking to improve your braking experience, the R4S is the
ticket.
> I'm thinking of doing a brake upgrade as well, but don't want to be
> eating my steering wheel every time I go to slow down!
additionally your brake systems operation (not unlike the other "go"
system, the engine) is directly related to that pedal's operation insofar as how
much and how often you use it. ;)
regards,
terry
"If it doesn't make you go fast, we don't sell it"
Grd4Spd Racing -
www.grd4spd.com
------------------------------
At 08:21 AM 6/16/2003 -0400, Starkey, Jr., Joseph wrote:
>Does this
combination "grab" too much for everyday street use? I'm
>thinking
of doing a brake upgrade as well, but don't want to be
>eating my steering
wheel every time I go to slow down!
>SNIP<<< For a simple daily
driver brake upgrade, you can get just
>Porterfield rotors and R4 pads
(front), R4-S pads (rear), from Geoff or
>any of the other "Good Guys"
dealers and vendors on the Team3S site...
> Right, Jim!?! ;-)
Nah, you don't want R4 pads for the street. They dust like crazy, squeak
and squawk, and don't work well until they get hot. Instead of eating your
steering wheel, you'll be standing on the brake pedal trying to get them to stop
when cold. Better you should install R4S pads all the way around.
Rich/slow old poop>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:11:22 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: No power problem?
>> what could possibly be wrong?
Fuel - is pressure good? what is voltage at pump? is the pump sized
correctly for the injectors used? is the FPR increasing pressure to match boost?
is fuel pump pickup tube o-ring OK?
Air - leaks (you tested for this), MAS OK? AFC (if used) OK?
Spark - ignition (coils, power transistor, *plugs*, cables) OK?
Timing - does a datalogger show good timing values?
Turbos - OK?
ECU - caps OK?
Throttle - cable adjusted correctly? TPS OK?
Exhaust - cat(s) plugged?
Sensors - coolant temp reported correctly?
I am sure there are more. The service manual provides quite a few
troubleshooting lists. A datalogger will help also.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:19:03 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel filter upgrade web page available
My fuel filter upgrade web page is available for those wanting some tips
about this mod.
Thanks to Bill Ma and Mike Chapleski on the Team3S email list and Erik
Arentzen on the Colorado DSM email list for pointing me (us) to the Earl's
Saginaw adapter. I provide a pic showing how this adapter is a bit different
than the factory connector. But it does seal, and is better than a hose
IMHO.
Other fuel line upgrade web pages:
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:23:12 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: A warning
Darren,
No, it did not strip the threads, if you look at the pic you will see a
crack the runs from the end of the filler hole and tapers down to a hairline
crack towards the base. I was SO mad at myself. I used this stuff
that came in two tubes that you have to mix(sorta like J B weld...but not that),
cleaned the area thoroughly with brake parts cleaner so that it was completely
dry of any grease or gear oil, left the plug/bolt IN the hole, and then gooped
the stuff into the crack. After about an hour when the epoxy had
solidified a little, I loosened the bolt about 1/8 of a turn(maybe less than
that) to let the crack "relax" a little bit and sorta bite down on the now
semi-solid epoxy. What was a very slow leak before is now sealed. I just
thought I'd warn everybody else that this is possible. Let my small
misfortune be a learning experience for everyone.
------------------------------
I had the same symptoms on my '93 VR4 before I replaced my y-pipe gasket
with the adapter from DrunkenBear. I was getting leakage at the y-pipe
under boost.
I know you said you checked the intake for leaks.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Wert <
mrstealth13@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Dent pullers
I have a little dent on my hood and it is small enough
I wouldn't
normally worry about it, however no matter
where the car is it seems to catch
the light and this
makes the dent very very noticeable. I was
wondering
if those dent pullers that are sold at car stores and advertised on
tv really work.
Andrew
------------------------------
Okay, I have to add my two cents.
Consider Carbotech brake pads. I've had very good results with these
and I use them on the street and track. There are three varieties, Panther,
Panther Plus, and something else that is more aggressive. I have the first
type on my commuter car and the second on my track car. I have found these
to be very rotor friendly.
I think any upgraded pad is going to have some dusting and is probably
going to have some squeaking. The amount varies.
Have you had your rotors turned? That is a lot cheaper than a new set
of rotors. If you need new rotors, Geoff is the man, unless you just want
to stay with stock rotors, which can be obtained pretty cheap according to some
post on the list.
I won't buy anything from Stillen anymore, looks cost a lot but don't equal
performance.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
I have used the Ding King on 2 3000GT's and a Stealth and have got very
good results. It works best on flat panels and with smooth dents (no sharp
creases). If all the stars align you can get the panel flat again, but
more likely you will get it pretty close and make it much less noticeable.
If you get it close, you may want to just let it go since I once tried to make
it perfect and ended-up pulling the metal slightly above the surface and making
a peak instead of a valley!
Greg Wurst
'95 3000GT VR4
'94 Dodge Stealth RT/TT (wife's car)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:14:48 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
The SRS codes are not accessible by the user --- I can only assume that
Mitsu, in there infinite wisdom, figured that they would get sued [ I can't
imagine that ] if they let the riff raff reset codes and otherwise play with the
SRS stuff. There are multiple sensors associated with the system so I could be
most anything. In addition the bag[s] may or may not deploy in an accident ---
no way of telling, short of a barrier assisted stop. I keep hearing about this
10 cycle thing but I've never heard of it working --- It seems to apply to 91
vehicles only.
Jim Berry
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:23:09 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
What's the 10 cycle thing all about? I have a 91
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:47:22 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
It actually worked for me ONCE, and I happen to have a 91!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:50:40 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
Ken, from my message earlier today: <<<When the
reference voltage in the SRS brain goes below a certain level, it sets an SRS
fault code. The fault code is "user resettable" by switching the ignition
on and off more than 10 times in one minute (or something like that), provided
it does not reach "critically low" voltage. If it reaches "critically low"
voltage, the SRS light must be reset by the dealer using the MUT-II.
The most common cause of this type fault is allowing the battery to slowly
drain. So if you left your car out of service for 4+ years, and the
battery slowly drained, this is probably your problem. Dodge/Mitsu is
aware of this problem (in fact, there's a TSB on it), and shouldn't charge you
to get it reset, but some dealers do. My dealer charged me $60, but
Chrysler refunded me the money because the glitch affects a safety feature of
the car.>>>
SNIP<<<What's the 10 cycle thing all about? I have a
91
Ken>>>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:14:50 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
The "on-off 10-times" procedure is described in the 1991 and 1992 service
manuals in the SRS chapter. It worked for my 1992 TT, though I don't remember if
the light stayed on after the battery was drained or was disconnected. It only
happened once. I imagine this procedure should be good for the OBDI models
(1991-1993).
I have never tried to display the codes by connecting an analog VOM (+)
lead to terminal 8 in the diagnostic connector and (-) lead to terminal 12 and
turning ignition switch to ON.
However, the service manual and the Air Bag manual both indicate that a
DRBII or a MUT must be used to read the codes. As Jim and others have mentioned,
this may be just as well for liability purposes.
------------------------------
That's a move up? ;)
> blocked off egr
- ---
Why do people do this?
- ---
Now offering replacement
Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes
from?
orders@speedtoys.com Maybe
I can help..asking is free. :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:30:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Re: Team3S: Rotor and pads?
Nope..very similar to what people already use with the bigred kit, just a
slightly larger rotor.
- ---
Now offering replacement
Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes
from?
orders@speedtoys.com Maybe
I can help..asking is free. :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:52:19 -0700
From: Michael Gerhard <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
Subject: Team3S: 91
VR4 Stock Wheel question
I'm looking at getting a set of 4 used stock wheels for my 91 VR4. I have
one I am repairing and in searching at M&S Recycling, they list the
wheels
as Left and Right. I'm wondering if there is a side preference to
them.
Also, M&S appear to only have chrome wheels and my stock wheels
are the 5
spoke cast Aluminum wheels.
I'm curious as to what CAPS lists as part numbers, whether the right and
left wheels are different.
If someone is looking it up in CAPS, here is my VIN:
JA3XE74C2MY026408
Thanks.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Michael
A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Pearl
White
------------------------------
All this talk about Y-pipes reminded me of the extra one I have. It
is stock and very good condition, will let go to list member cheap. Email
me direct if interested.
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:54 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <
jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 91 VR4 Stock Wheel question
You don't need CAPS to find part number info for many parts, including the
wheels. Check out the repair guides I supply at my web site - they include an
estimate for prices also. Look at page 981 in the MOTOR guide for the 1991
wheels. They show L & R parts.
FWIW, an employee at MOTOR contacted me regarding my reproducing these
guides. His only comment was that I misrepresented their company by stating the
guide was by Mitchell! I corrected the title on the web page but the url
(mis)name remains.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:05:08 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 91 VR4 Stock Wheel question
> I'm curious as to what CAPS lists as part numbers, whether the right
> and left wheels are different.
CAPS shows item 32862 as the wheel for your VIN (MB624569 RH or MB624768
LH) but the picture shows 8 different wheel patterns for the "32862" item: 5-
and 7-spoke aluminum and 6-spoke aluminum wheels with the various types as: BA,
BB, AW, CR, CS, DM, EP, and EQ. I don't know what the type means.
They also have the center caps listed (three types). I can email you the
screen capture if you want to see the pictures.
- --Flash!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:46:11 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 91 VR4 Stock Wheel question
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gerhard" <
gerhard1@llnl.gov>
> I'm looking at
getting a set of 4 used stock wheels for my 91 VR4. I
> have one I am
repairing and in searching at M&S Recycling, they list
> the wheels as
Left and Right. I'm wondering if there is a side
> preference to them.
Thanks.
> Michael A. Gerhard 1991 Mitsubishi
3000GT VR4 Pearl White
- -------snip-------->
There is only a slight cosmetic difference, and it's not really noticeable.
The wheels have a slight raised "sweep" in the centers of the spokes that is
different from right to left. But you really have to look hard to see
it. I just went through the same thing when I bought 3 wheels from Chuck
Willis - one left, and two rights. The only one I could find at the
recycler was a *third* right side wheel, or else go with a different wheel type
entirely. Since the spokes themselves are the same dimensions, you can't really
tell. BTW, Wheels America (
www.fixrim.com)
in Union City did a pretty nice job on straightening and refinishing the wheels
- $109 each, including clearcoat. 24 hour service. One wheel had a
good-sized ding, and they got it out. They look like new wheels.
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:27:21 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Team3S: Rotor and pads?
> At 08:21 AM 6/16/2003 -0400, Starkey, Jr., Joseph wrote:
>
>R4 pads (front), R4-S pads (rear): Does this combination "grab" too
>
>much for everyday street use? I'm thinking of doing a brake
upgrade
> >as well, but don't want to be eating my steering wheel every
time I
> >go to slow down!
- ------------------------>
From: <
merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
>
Nah, you don't want R4 pads for the street. They dust like crazy,
>
squeak and squawk, and don't work well until they get hot.
> Instead of
eating your steering wheel, you'll be standing on
> the brake pedal trying
to get them to stop when cold. Better
> you should install R4S pads all
the way around.
> Rich/slow old poop>
-
------------------------>
Rich (and others) are right - for street use, use R4-S all around. I
suggested R4 fronts *in error* - because MY street use is to go right out to the
winding roads and "play". I don't use it as a daily driver. R4's
will take too long to heat up to be effective for normal use, they are noisy
when cold, and they are dusty. For you (and most people) R4-S is the best
choice. Great street pad.
- --Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:03:02 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 91
VR4 Stock Wheel question
Michael --- I have a couple of sets of rims for sale. I'm not sure what the
stock 91 VR4 rimes look like but I have a set of first gen stealth TT rims [ see
link ] and a set of 94 VR4 rims. The Stealth rims are a painted rim [ grey ] and
the VR4 rims are chrome. None are pristine but all range from good to fair.
Price is $150 + shipping for the Stealth and $450 + for the VR4 wheels. From
Southern California --- 92691
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:08:33 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
New datalog run - eval needed! (was:Dyno Day report...)
Thanks Jeff..., and all who replied privately... I understand *some*
of your explanation and I'm learning every day. ;-) To answer your
questions, yes, it's TMO, and you saw what was measured - no other parameters
were logged. For (no knock) run 1, where the AF indicated off-scale "too rich",
my settings
were:
Low throttle (10%): 800rpm: -35, 1600 to 7600 rpm,
-30.
High throttle (60%): 800rpm to 7600rpm: all -30
My current S-AFC-II settings (set by the dyno tuner for run #3 and 12psi)
are: Low throttle (10%): 800rpm: -35, and -30 across the board for 1600, 2200,
2800, 3400, 4000, 4600, 5200, 5800, 6400, 7000, 7600 rpm. High throttle (60%):
800: -28, 1600: -25, 2200: -23, 2800: -20, 3400: -27,
4000: -30; 4600 to
7600: all -32.
That is where the settings are now. I didn't have your post with me
when I was on the road and (it appears) that I've blown the new turbo AGAIN,
since the car smokes like hell on startup. (That's Geoff's diagnosis - he
saw it. And it's the same thing I saw when the last one blew... I'll save
that for another post). I added a few parameters that I thought might
help, and I did a datalog for about 1/2 an hour (until the laptop battery
died). PLEASE take a look and get back to me if you see *anything* that
would indicate another condition. I'm about to take the car back to the
installer and tear him a new one about the turbo failure...
The car has not been run hard, since I have been unable to finish the dyno
tuning and get approval for my S-AFC-II settings from you guys (and from what
little I know...). I've been babying it except for the dyno runs, which
were very gentle, too. Except for the ONE time that the boost was at 12
and the Y-pipe blew off at 4500, the max boost I have run has been 12 (the dyno
run #3, that you evaluated). At all other times for the last 3 days, I
have been at 9psi, and at 6 psi before. Here's the new run:
www.Team3S.com/VR4-logs/TurboSmokeRun0616.tlg
BTW..., to help you understand the conditions-- this run was along *very*
hilly, winding roads with lots of 15 and 20 mph hairpins, playing tag with ET's
Spec Miata. I didn't have to push at all to keep up with her, obviously,
but there were times that I was running *maybe* 5k - 6k in second. I think
my top rpm was ~5800 during this run (can't remember what the peak rpm
value on the S-AFC-II was). This is our "track practice" area, but there
are other cars and bikes on the road, so we are very careful and we don't push
the limits. And I backed way off because of the smoky turbo...
Please let me know your evaluation (and diagnosis). ;-)
Thanks!
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:53:56 -0400
From: "Alex Pedenko" <
alex@kolosy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
possible FS
I did it because it keeps the plenum cleaner. I don't kid myself thinking
it'll give me a performance increase - I know how the egr works and realize it
won't...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:49:07 -0400
From: "Dunkin" <
dunkin@netcarrier.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Here's a run down. Just did the 60k
service. New plugs, timing belt, water pump. Checked timing all
good. Plug wires are very clean. Intake cleaned with new
gaskets. Tranny has 10k on it with a new clutch so its not a slipping
problem. The engine misfire happens on hard acceleration in second gear
mostly and worse on warm days. Can someone run down a list of stuff for me
to also check? First thing comes to mind something with the fuel
injectors. This problem was happening a little before the 60k service but
has gotten worse. I ran one can of fuel injector cleaner through but it
didn't seem to help that much. I am not a promoter of those products
anyways. I'd rather fix the problem at the source than run a bunch of
cleaners through my engine. But if anyone has other suggestions fire
away.
Thanks,
Darius
1991 VR4
------------------------------
There is actually a little R or a little L in raised letters on each 1st
gen 17" VR4 wheel, to avoid confusion. As Forrest says, a slight cosmetic
difference in the slope of the "spokes". No substantial difference - I ran
an R on the L side for years with no problem.
Glad to hear the used wheels turned out good!
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:45:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Check plug gap? how old are the wires?
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:54:40 -0400
From: "Ken Stanton" <
ken.c.stanton@usa.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Well the obvious is the fuel filter. It is an essential part of the
60k IMO, as well as thermostat, pcv, and the like. If you haven't done the
ff, I would recommend doing it but also consider the 'upgraded' one that Jeff
recently added to his page. Its already on my list! =)
Ken Stanton
2 Stealth Family
91 Stealth TT and 92 Stealth ES
Many
many 60k's completed ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:54:42 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
To add to Geoff's question, how much boost are you running? If you
have the stock gap (.044 I think) and you are running 14-15 psi, I could see
some hesitation. Also, what brand plugs are you using?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:11:29 -0400
From: "Dunkin" <
dunkin@netcarrier.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Plug gap in spec. Checked them three times before
I put them in. The wires are a little on the old side not sure from the
first owner. I'd be inclined to say they were changed around 30k.
Cars got 55k on it now. Could looks be deceiving the wires look pretty new and
clean?
Darius
1991 VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:16:29 -0400
From: "Dunkin" <
dunkin@netcarrier.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Yes fuel filter changed as well as pcv and
thermostat. I was as thorough as I could be on the 60k except the wires
and checking the fuel injectors.
Darius
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:24:59 -0400
From: "Dunkin" <
dunkin@netcarrier.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine misfires with hard acceleration . . . .
Oh yea and NGK plugs. Didn't go cheap on the
plugs. Using what the car should have.
Darius
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:22:45 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Battery Wire Routing (OEM Positive)
Anyone know how the big (8ga?) wire that is soldered to the OEM battery
terminal is routed? Not the little wire with the ring terminal that
attaches to the little screw on the OEM terminal, but the larger wire that is
permanently attached to the battery terminal.
From the service manual (Elec. p72 on CD), it looks like it only goes to
the starter motor. Pages 42 and 46 seem to indicate that this wire goes
only to the starter as well. On p46, it looks like the CPS (B-4) wiring
may be wrapped into the same loom.
The reason I ask is that I'm having some intermittent issues with my
starter. Sometimes it just won't spin the engine - I can hear the pinion
rear go "tink" against the ring gear, but it doesn't spin the engine. The
lights in the interior don't dim any more than they do during normal
starting. Most of the time, if I just cycle the key between "On" and
"Start" it will start within 10 tries or so. Sometimes rotating the engine
by hand first helps, too. It also seems to happen more when the car has
been sitting for a while (overnight or longer). When it's been run within
the last few hours, I've never had any issues with the starter.
The only cause I can think of is that I recently replaced my positive
terminal for my battery and had to put a ring terminal on the large positive
wire in order to connect it to the new terminal. I cut off the OEM battery
terminal and soldered in a 6" section of 4ga wire with a ring terminal on the
end. While I was soldering the new 4ga extension wire onto the OEM power
wire, I did heat it up quite a bit... I wonder if I damaged something by
overheating that wire. I did get it pretty dang hot in order to melt the
solder.
Other than the starter motor, I have no electrical issues with the car that
I know of - everything works great and I can drive the car normally.
Ideas? I don't relish the thought of digging through the engine bay
to replace that wire and having to reroute a new wire in there... I
suppose the first order of business is to examine the terminals on the starter
and maybe check the resistance of the starter power wire. Any other, more
convenient ideas? :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:38:27 -0500
From: "Lim, Yong H SPC"
<
yong.lim@sill.army.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: Got a question about a rear bumper(93 3KGT VR4)
Ok, the 'plastic insert'(that plastic around the license plate) on my car
is scratched and I am wondering if there is anyway to fix this thing. Initially,
I was looking for a replacement for this piece but I found out(from other
members) that it's not sold separately from the rear bumper. Is there anyway I
can fix this without having to buy a new rear bumper? I'm going to paint
the whole car in a couple of month and I just don't know what can I do to fix
this plastic insert.
Any helps would be appreciated guys,
thanks...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:49:19 +0200
From: "Mats Gebelius" <
mats.gebelius@chello.se>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Dent pullers
Hmmm..
How does a dent puller work, and where do I buy them?
I have
never seen them here in Sweden.
/Mats Gebelius
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:36:21 -0400
From: "anthonymelillo" <
anthonymelillo@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
Helllllllllp needed to save my sanity.
Ok this is really weird, and is seriously pi----- me off. I finished
the timing belt and water pump service today, and halleluiah, it runs and runs
well.
Everything seems to be working fine. I let it idle for a little bit
so I could check the coolant level and it seems fine.
I then decided to check the A/C belt to make sure it wasn't slipping when
the A/C was on, and guess what ? The compressor clutch is not
engaging. I checked power at the A/C Clutch relay and there is 12V
there.
The wiring diagram shows that the black wire with the white stripe is for
power. One wire goes to 12V through the fuse, and the other goes to the
A/C compressor magnetic clutch.
If I jump across these two wires, the clutch does engage, and the belt
isn't squealing either. But for some reason the A/C will not go on by
itself.
The relay wiring diagram shows the other two wires at the relay, are for
control signals from the ECU. It seems that these two wires provide to
turn on signal to the relay to activate the compressor clutch. But, when I
check these wires for power, there is nothing there.
Help ! I have a 1997 3000GT VR-4 with the automatic climate control
if I forgot to mention.
I tried the obvious, such as making the temperature on the auto climate
control the lowest it can go to make sure the A/C will go on.
The service manual shows the ability to read an error code using a
voltmeter, but the one they show is an analog meter, and I have a digital
readout meter. Can I diagnose somehow here ? I hooked my meter up
and it alternates from 0v to what seems to be 1.0v. But I am not absolutely
sure.
Since the weather has been so cold here, in crappy NJ, I haven't used the
A/C since last summer, so I can't be absolutely sure it just broke on it's own
or I somehow did something when I did the timing belt.
Any help to save what little sanity I have left will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:50:34 -0400
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
You might want to check your freon level. I think the compressor has a low
pressure switch that prevents it from burning up.
Joseph
93 3KGT VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:37:15 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <
erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
I'll only mention this because I did it once and wondered why my A/C didn't
work...
Do you have your interior torn apart? Specifically the panel below
the glovebox and above the passenger's feet?
The reason is that there is a control box there that handles some of the
A/C stuff (I forget exactly what off the top of my head) and if it's
disconnected, the A/C won't work.
I know it's silly, but I know I'm not the only one who's done it :-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:45:18 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Got a question about a rear bumper(93 3KGT VR4)
It is part of the bumper, not sold with it. It is one piece, just
painted a different color.
At any rate, a good body shop should be able to fix any kind of scratch or
crack with a special filler for plastic parts (can't remember what its called
right this second)
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:48:20 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: New datalog run - eval needed! (was:Dyno Day report...)
One helpful tip... Set your throttle percentages different.
I've found tuning is MUCH easier if the low throttle is set at 30% and high
is at 70% That way the ECU does most of its self adjustments in the low
throttle portion.
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:50:22 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
> I know it's silly, but I know I'm not the only one who's done it
:-)
>
> --Erik
> '95 VR-4
www.team3s.com/~egross
Ooh ooh, me too... :)
I hate that thing... took me like three hours to figure that one out one
day...
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:51:10 -0500
From: "Morice, Francis" <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
Anthony,
Hehe, I just went through is. After doing my 60k, my A/C didn't work
either. I grounded out the harness side of the pressure switch and the
compressor fired up. So I figured either the switch was bad (not likely) or I
was low on Ref. I just went of to one our local MN3S member's house and we
recharged my system. I think that the Ref leaked out when I pushing some
of the hoses around. I would do a pressure test and see if you have any in
there. If the system gets too low, the compressor won't kick on. So
far it hasn't leaked, but it's only been a couple of hours.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
From:
chfmn@webtv.net (Walter Womack)
Subject:
Team3S: Redundancy
Anyone have the same problem as I?Get home,check email,see 32
messages,goto,just to find out that there are only 3 or 4 actual messages
and the rest are duplicates or partials thereof.While I'm here,what's the most
probable scenario for smoke out of the left exhaust only under boost? Thanks
92 RTTT Pearl White
------------------------------
Time for a compression check? Only under boost??
Left only..probly just better flow out that one side..as its NOT a dual
exhaust car.
- ---
www.SpeedToys.com: Geoff
Mohler
orders@speedtoys.com
Team3S/3Si.org Vendor approved brake discounter; also, parts for Toyota, Audi,
BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, SAAB, Volvo. Where do you buy YOUR brakes? I can
help...asking is free! :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:24:10 -0500
From: "William J. Crabtree" <
wjcrabtree@earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: SRS diagnostic tool/codes?
Jeff, et al,
Theory tested. Theory failed. Oh well....guess I'm off to
do battle with the dealer.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lucius
Sent: Monday, June 16,
2003 4:47 AM
<<<SNIP>>>
I imagine the codes are translated into pulses just like they are for the
MPI system. Long pulses are multiplied by ten. Short pulses are multiplied by 1.
So a long pulse followed by three short pulses would be the number 13.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
From:
chfmn@webtv.net (Walter Womack)
Subject:
Team3S: Redundancy
Yes I do have "active exhaust",and I have always wondered why that I could
hear the exhaust from the drivers side but not the other side and why when I
wash the car the drivers exhaust pipes are always "sooty",while the others seem
much cleaner.Had no idea that such a "tech"car, with so much horsepower, doesn't
even have dual exhaust.2"countem"2 turbos and no dual exhaust.Why?Just so I can
buy more stuff later,or Mitsu really believes that this is proper breathing or
they just thought that it would look cool?What the h--l are the passenger side
exhaust pipes for anyway?I can understand why my 100hp Audi has only one
exhaust,but come on now.
92 RTTT Pearl White
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:01 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
60k svc done-yea, but now A/C not working
What I find interesting is that my freon *seems* low since my A/C vent temp
isn't getting low enough. My compressor still fires up. I probably
shouldn't be using my A/C, but I have been. Maybe a low pressure cut-off
isn't available in the 1st gen 3S? When I get my A/C recharged, I'll
report what the pressure was.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:09:04 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Redundancy
I remember R.Gerl bringing up the topic of synchronizing exhaust gas pulses
as a reason for having a 2 to 1 exhaust. The stock active exhaust is a 2
to 1 design (when I say 2 to 1, I mean that there is a y-pipe after the
downpipes) and passenger side muffler is controlled by a baffle. The end
result will always have more exhaust gas out the driver side even in Sport
mode. Personally, I think Mitsu did this in order to have the quietest car
possible. The idea behind the 3S seems to be focused on having a really
nice daily driver with a good-looking interior and still...a fast car. Using a
true dual exhaust design would kill this dream. On that note, I couldn't
stand the stock active exhaust. The day my Stillen DP & ATR singleshot
catback went in was the best day of my life. But now I get pulled over by
cops and set off car alarms. It's annoying for me to cruise ~2000 to 2500
rpm because the whole car vibrates. You get some and you lose some.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Boost gauge question
Hi: Recently I just bought a boost gauge. The first
time I install it
& it reads about -20 at vacuum. One
day later the hose goes into the
intake melt down
because I used the wrong type of hose.(white in
color
like the one supply with the gauge.) Second attempt
got back the
stock hose but only get back to -15. And
during floor the pedal to the floor
it reaches 7-8 psi
but dropping down kind of fast compare to the
stock
boost gauge. I know there should be a leak somewhere.
So I reconnect
all hose the third time & I got -18 at
vaccum(idle). What should the
normal reading should
be? Anthony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
From:
chfmn@webtv.net (Walter Womack)
Subject:
Team3S: Redundancy
Thanks guys.I now get the picture as to why the drivers side exhaust has
always seemed so dominant to me.Since I am on the verge of installing a boost
controller and gauge,"but only to the 14psi recommended,"will the waiting of the
other half of the exhaust system to function, until certain pressure
requirements have been met,create a serious obstacle in the venting of exhaust
gases to the point of diminished returns?
92 RTTT Pearl White
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Tse <
tse1631@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Rear engine mount
Hi Everyone: As I install the boost gauge I found the
driver side engine
mount is broken real bad. Broken
like a half circle. Then I check the other
three are
all bad. The one at the rear bottom looks real hard to
get it
out. I got the car to my friend's garage & lift
it up. It looks like get
it from the top is harder
than from the bottom. From the top I need to take
off
as least the plenum, throttle body, MAS, rear turbo
heat
shield,....... but from the bottom it may be only
to take out the down pipe +
pre cat. (I planned to
upgrade the stock down pipe anyway) Any body
have
better ideas? Thanks! Anthony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:28:38 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@spamcop.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear engine mount
Anthony,
I have heard that most of the time the engine is lifted not
quite out of the car but at least off of the mounts enough to replace with
upgraded ones. Take this opportunity to upgrade to solid (polyurethane) mounts
from 3SX Performance (
www.3sxperformance.com/designs.asp).
I think everyone who has upgraded to these all agree the performance improvement
is well worth it.
The 3SX folks now sell the motor mount that is
in the driver front with two screws in it as a way of staking the polyurethane
from walking out of the mount like I had happen to mine so if you see that then
you know what it is.
Because the bolts go through a motor mount
and are secured to the motor somehow then you can not remove stuff (plenum, rear
turbo, front manifold, radiator, and just "get" to it to replace it but instead
have to lift the motor off its supports. To get to the one in the driver
front, for example, you can loosen it (contact me for pictures and how-to) and
lift up the motor with a floor jack (to relieve tension on the thru bolt) then
it just pulls out. The others are similar but you do need to get *to*
them.
- --Flash!
1995-1/2 VR-4 w/four 3SX polyurethane motor mounts
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#181
***************************************
