Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth     Tuesday, May 27 2003     Volume 02 : Number 165
 
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Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 19:12:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Power on a Non-Turbo?
 
Massive head work, high compression pistons..if you have any money left, replace EVERYTHING with lightweight components, right down to the valves.
 
- ---
Now offering replacement Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes from? orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:29:54 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Clutch problems/Changing the clutch
 
>> Anyone who has done a clutch please give me some input.  Special
>> tools? Tips and tricks on dropping the tranny?
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-trany.htm
 
>> Bleed the clutch?
 
http://www.stealth316.com/2-clutchbleeding.htm
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:31:15 -0500
From: "Nick McDermott" <eire1274@cox.net>
Subject: Team3S: New member question: Service manuals
 
Hello, everybody.  I'm new to both the list and to 3000GT ownership.  In fact, I don't even have the car here yet; I'm driving down to Oklahoma City next Monday to pick it up.
 
The car is a 93 US-spec 3000GT VR-4.  Engine is in good shape except some goof on the lot decided to take apart the air intake and intercooler pipes, which I get to put together.  Also, the transmission was thoroughly killed by the previous (17-year-old) clutch-popping owner by hopping a curb at 20Mph and coming down on the transfer case, so a Getrag 6-speed will be going up in its place.  Everything else (except right front rim which will be replaced RE: curb hop) is peachy.
 
Now, here's the crutch: I've spent 10 years working on engines and cars in general as a hobby.  I know a Pontiac long-block V8 inside and out. But a DOHC twin-turbo is a different creature.  In fact, I just assembled my first SOHC Nissan motor ever this afternoon.  But that aside, I need an inexpensive service manual.  Neither Chilton's nor Hayes makes one that covers the 93 Stealth/3000GT, let alone the TT/VR-4.  I cannot afford a Mitsubishi dealer's reference set at this point.  Does anyone have a suggestion where I could find a printed model-specific reference in the US?
 
Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Thanks,
 
Nick McDermott
Omaha, NE, USA
Eire1274@cox.net
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:33:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: New member question: Service manuals
 
Go OEM..no substitute.
 
:)
 
- ---
Now offering replacement Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes from? orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 01:10:56 -0400
From: ERIC PIERCE PIERCE <griz600cc@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More Power on a Non-Turbo?
 
Check out http://www.3sxperformance.com/. I have a non-turbo Stealth
(but will eventually change to a turbo). Just a thought to consider,
when upgrading power, you should also look into upgrading the brake
components and suspension. I personally did the suspension and the
brake components first. It's just as important to be able to stop and
handle as it is to go fast.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 02:48:18 -0400
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New member question: Service manuals
 
You can get the dealer set on CD for $30... www.manualcd.com The 3000gt manuals go for $100+, the stealth manuals straight from Chrysler I think sell for $60, with no difference other then body panels and 3kgt specific stuff (active aero). A good alternative over the more expensive 3kgt manuals.
 
Omar
92 r/t
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:33:46 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Check engine light on >and TCS off light
 
I pulled into my office this weekend and my 92 >DOHC n/t started to stumble erratically, the tach was going all over the place like a short was happening.  Now the car seems to be running on less that 6 and a hard check engine light displays on the dash and also the "TCS off" light is on constant.  I don't have a scan MUT so I just used a multi-meter to test voltage at the diag. connector, the read out I got was code 44.  This seems to be the Ignition system power transistor 1-4 per my manual.  Has anyone seen this type of behavior on their engine?  What steps should I take to correct the fault?  Check coil? then power transistor? I'm not sure if this is a real failure or just due to wet wiring we have has rain for 5 days in a row.
 
GC
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:28:03 -0400
From: "Gene Calarco" <gac@clifton.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check engine light on >and TCS off light
 
Thank you for the idea, this may be a good way to isolate which is at fault. Will testing the voltage at the 1-4 terminal of the coil tell me if the coil is bad also?  I just found a procedure described in Chilton's which was not in Mitsubishi's shop manual. They suggest testing the voltage at the high side and the low side of the coil to see if it is with in a spec.  My question really is do these power transistors go out just like that? my car is running (but very poorly), does the system cut fuel to the 1-4 cylinder or just spark?  Do you know if driving it short distances will harm the engine?
 
GC
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:20:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New member question: Service manuals
 
The CD is only legal if you have a printed set.
 
Do the right thing..buy the book.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:46:20 -0500
From: "John M. Hughes" <hughesjohn@mac.com>
Subject: Team3S: Another A/C problem
 
The a/c on my 93 TT is cutting off after 5-15 minutes or it won't blow
cold if I turn it on after a few minutes. The climate control display
shows nothing unusual. Last year I had to replace the revolution
pick-up sensor on the compressor and I dye checked the system and
refilled. Any ideas?
 
J M Hughes
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:31:30 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: Team3S: total unconditional surrender!
 
Thanks to everyone who replied with advice, the extended warranty company just called and said that they would LOVE to have the synchros replaced on my 6 speed transmission!
 
Chuck Willis
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:54:37 -0700
From: "Geddes, Brian J" <brian.j.geddes@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need Turbo lessons
 
You beat me to it, Matt.  :)  It's my understanding that clipping is done to improve top-end exhaust flow, at the expense of a longer spool time.  In a nutshell, clipping the exhaust wheel allows a small amount of exhaust to pass through the housing without spinning the wheel.  At lower RPMs this means that less of the exhaust is pushing the wheel, and thus spool-up is increased.  At higher RPMs when the wheel is already spinning at full tilt, this exhaust gas passing through helps to decrease backpressure and improve VE.
 
- - Brian
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:04:43 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need Turbo lessons
 
However there is a downside to turbine wheel clipping it reduces the overall efficiency of the turbo, in addition clipping can cause premature wear/failure due to the fact on the high-end the turbo is being over spun. By how much I am not sure, but every builder I have spoken with doesn't recommend clipping but will do it if specifically asked to do so.
 
Just my .02
 
Russ F
CT
93 VR-4 DR650's + supporting mods
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:22:37 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
You folks realize we are being watched, don't you?
 
John Monnin (I think it was) warned everybody signing up for the St Louis driving event that Mitsubishi was monitoring the list to find the names of people who race their cars. The intent was to deny transfer case replacements to them bad guys.
 
My wife, a bankruptcy attorney*, just discovered that the Gummint is monitoring her on-line consumer bankruptcy forums. One of the folks on the list said the U.S. Trustee in her district mentioned something she had said on the list. "How did you know I said that?," she asked. The trustee said, "Somebody sent it to me." Yeah, right.
 
Hoo boy. Does this mean we all gotta start using handles and untraceable mailboxes?
 
What really pisses me off is that if Mitsubishi is watching our forums, why don't the rotten sumbitches help us out with our technical questions? After all, they race cars, too. They could be like BMW, Porsche, Volvo, Subaru, the old Datsun (man, I loved those guys at Datsun Competition), and other companies and help us instead of trying to take away our transfer cases.
 
Rich/slow old poop
 
*She's one of the good guys. She saves farms, businesses, and marriages by helping people get out of financial difficulties.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:42:30 -0000
From: "Jeff Lucius" <jlucius@stealth316.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Another A/C problem
 
Some A/C tips:
http://www.stealth316.com/2-ac-tips.htm
 
A/C Compressor R&R and related: http://www.stealth316.com/2-ac-compressor.htm
 
Jeff Lucius, http://www.stealth316.com/
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:48:44 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
> John Monnin (I think it was) warned everybody
> signing up for the St Louis driving event that
> Mitsubishi was monitoring the list to find the
> names of people who race their cars. The intent
> was to deny transfer case replacements to
> them bad guys.
 
I'd be surprised if they haven't been doing that for a long time.  I doubt they
could legally get out of the recall responsibilities on a raced car if the car
wasn't substantially modified beyond its design parameters.  On a bone-stock
car, whether it is raced or not shouldn't matter.
 
Mitsubishi likes to deny warranty claims even on stock vehicles if they think
they can get away with it.  If they are spying on us and taking down names of
enthusiasts to invalidate warranties and safety recalls, then I guess I won't
be buying that Lancer Evolution I'm planning on buying next year to replace my
Dodge (Mitsubishi) Avenger.
 
- -Matt
'95 Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder VR4
'96 Mitsubishi (Dodge) Avenger
'93 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
'94 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
'91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-DOHC
'88 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
'86 Mitsubishi Starion
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:54:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Of course, a "race" involves a # of legal issues Mitsu will never be able to prove.
 
Open trackin is not illegal, nor does it harm anyone's warranty.
 
DRAG racing..does.  The nature of drag racing voids out warrantees based on simple owner abuse.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 21:18:05 +0000
From: mjannusch@attbi.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
> DRAG racing..does.  The nature of drag racing
> voids out warrantees based on simple owner abuse.
 
As long as you don't just wind up the engine and drop the clutch I don't see
how 14 seconds of continuous acceleration is much different on the abuse scale
than road racing.  Most tracks have straight sections, and I doubt that open
trackers just coast through them, and they probably don't granny shift the
tranny either.
 
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:29:51 -0700
From: "Damon Rachell" <DamonR@MEFAS.com>
Subject: Team3S: Rear sway bar install...
 
Since several people have asked about the rear sway bar removal and install, I dug up the original instructions that I had made about a year ago.
 
Hope you guys enjoy.  Hehehe, I certainly did :->
Damon
 
Rear Sway bar install:
 
This is a general outline for the removal and installation of the rear sway bar in a 1992 Dodge Stealth R/T Turbo with AWS.  Total time it took me was about 5 hours, but I take everything VERY SLOW.  I'd rather literally do it twice to get it right than have it done half-assed.  Those cars that do not have AWS have about 1-1.5 hours less of work and much easier clearance.  If I had to do it again, though, it would probably take no more than 2-2.5 hours, max.
 
The AWS pipes are right by the sway bar and need to be shifted often to get the old bar out and the new bar in.  Patience, the right tools, a little elbow grease, a beautiful day, a competent partner (no household dog for companionship), a 6-pack of America's Finest and a pizza (for when completed, of course) are all necessary.  Sorry no pics but I'll try when we do Jim's car soon (Fastmax).  Here we go!
 
1) Remove both rear wheels and jack the car way up and place on jack stands.  I did this side by side rather than using the diff.  I can get greater height this way.
2) Remove the end links from both the sway bar and the control arm using a 12mm socket and a 14mm thin wrench (to prevent twisting of the end link).  Maintain orientation of the bushings and caps.  These will be reused until urethane bushings can be made.
3) Remove the Tie Rod Ends from the AWS.   This makes additional room to work.
4) Remove the rear shock absorber lower mounting bolt and pry the shock away from the shock lower mount.  I used a pry bar for this.
5) Remove the parking brake mounting bolts (3 12mms).
6) Remove the exhaust support bolts from the driver's side.  There are two under the bumper, one near the upper control arm and one below the lower control arm.  This allows the differential maximum clearance from the body.
7) ***Now comes the fun stuff:  Using a floor jack and a 2"X4", begin supporting the differential from the bottom.  Once the next 2 steps are completed, the differential is FREE from the body.  It NEEDS support like your grandma's booty!
8) Remove the cross member brackets that attach the frame to the differential carrier (17mm towards the front and 19mm towards the rear). 
9) Remove the cross member mounting bolt behind the upper control arm (22mm).
10) Lower the differential approximately 1-2" ONLY!  This gives you room to remove the fixing bolts to the AWS pipes that are nearly inaccessible before the diff drop.
11) Remove the 5 AWS fixing bolts (12mm), two on each side of the diff, two under the body in front of the diff, and one where the 4 AWS lines converge on top of the differential carrier towards the front of the differential.  This last one is a complete PITA so be careful.  It can be done, though.
12)  Now mark the position of the AWS brackets on the cross member.  Remove the 4 17mm bolts.
13) Slide the AWS rack away from the sway bar brackets.  The hoses all have flexible sections but are mostly rigid so be careful not to kink anything.  With enough room to get to the 12mm sway bar bracket bolts, remove them.
14) At this point, even when I lowered the diff to the max, there wasn't enough room to get the bar out.  So, remove the rear center support bearing bolts on the driveshaft from the body and support the Lobro Joint with a 2X4 preventing excessive sag.  Too much sag at the Lobro Joint can split the boot, which will then need costly replacement.
15) With the driveshaft loose and supported, lower the diff approximately 6".  Make sure that you watch all lines and hoses, all connections, and frankly everything!  Do it slowly!  Lots of potential to screw something up here but just take your time and watch everything.
16) With about 6" of clearance between the body and the diff, the sway bar can be maneuvered out.  This is best done with 2 people.  Watch the brake lines.  They don't need to be removed, but just keep an eye out for them.
 
Installation:
1) Slide the new sway bar in place.  Make sure that the bar is ORIENTED the proper way!!!  Again, be careful of the AWS lines and the brake lines.
2) Attach the sway bar to the frame with the new brackets but keep them loose.  Use washers on the bolts due to the slightly larger holes in the new brackets.  I just didn't trust the fitment without the washers.
3) Raise the diff to about 2" from the top using the floor jack.
4) Reattach the AWS lines on top of the diff.
5) Reattach the center support bearing.
6) Reattach the lower shock mount bolts (72 ft-lbs).
7) This gets the suspension to roughly the right geometry to fix the sway bar in place.  Reattach the end links to the sway bar and the lower control arm.  Match the number of threads exposed on the outside of each bolt so both sides are symmetrical.  Don't over tighten at this point.
8) Slide the bar as far forward (towards the engine) as the sway bar brackets will allow and tighten the bracket bolts down firmly.  I found that my bar seemed to be about 1/4" too long when the brackets were centered so pushing the brackets up front helps even it out a bit.
9) Reattach all AWS pipe fixing bolts
10) Reinstall the AWS rack bolts (30 ft-lbs)
11) Fully raise the diff.  I raised it til it just about lifted the car off the jack stands, then lowered it a tad (don't quote me on how far a tad is:  it's a little more than a bit but a lot less than a lot!!!)
12) Install the 22mm cross member mounting bolt behind and above the upper control arm.  Don't torque down until the diff is unsupported off the jack.
13) Install the Cross member bracket bolts and nuts.
14) Reattach the exhaust.
15) At this point, there shouldn't be any nuts or bolts lying around.  Make sure to fully lower the diff.
16) Torque the 22mm cross member mounting nuts to 42ft lbs, the 19mm cross member mounting bolt to 80-94ft lbs and the 17mm mounting nuts to 51-61ft lbs.
 
And I think that's that.  This is all from memory and by the time I was done, that was pretty foggy, but this should get you close.  If there's some changes that need to be made or recommendations, please feel free to contact me and I'll amend the recipe.
 
Thanks and happy boosting.
Damon
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:53:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
The nature of drag racing is abusive to the driveline.  Who dragraces with a smooth controlled clutch action?  Nobody.  Even if you -do- its not the nature of the sport to do so.
 
The nature of road racing is not abusive to anything other than what are considered normal wear items.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:58:19 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Keep in mind, however, that the transfer case recall is a safety recall, and not a warranty claim.  So this isn't a question of denying a warranty claim because of "misuse and abuse."  If the condition exists as specified in the recall, then the remedy provided in the recall must be honored.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:57:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Agreed, I was reacting towards the warranty call, not the safety recall.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:59:46 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
> Most tracks have straight sections, and I doubt that open trackers
>just coast through them, and they probably don't granny shift the
>tranny either.
 
I don't abuse my tranny or clutch on road courses. No launches, no speed shifts, and -- if nothing serious is going on around me -- I usually up shift at 6000 instead of taking it up to the redline.
 
Us road course people NEVER abuse our cars like you drag racers. We are gentle on the brakes, suspension, engine, and so on.
 
In fact, I like to think I am driving the car the way the engineers at Mitsubishi intended when they designed these magnificent cars. Why else would they give us aerodynamic aids, electronic suspensions, four wheel steering, and so on?
 
I just don't understand why, when we are driving the cars the way they were meant to be driven, that Mitsubishi has abandoned us. Why are those original engineers so quiet? They should be like Zora Arkus Duntov*, take part in our activities, and allow us to pay homage to their brilliance. Hasn't Mitsu  learned ANYTHING from watching the great car companies like Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, and other marques? They should be supporting us, not ignoring us.
 
When you get right down to it, our cars are coming out of the closet. We had five cars at Road America. The Left Coasters turn out big contingents. Our ten year old cars run with the big dogs all the time. Our novices have nothing to fear when they run in the beginner's groups against doctors in new M3s and Boxsters. Our cars hold their own in all venues against comparable cars and drivers. Thanks to this list and the racer's list we're solving our braking problems, parts are becoming available, we have ENGINEERS like the Mad Russian and Jack T and several others doing some serious development work, and our ranks are growing. I can't think of a single car that offers as much bang for the buck as our battleship Mitsubishis.
 
Man, if we only had some help from the factory, too, we'd blow them all away.
 
Rich/slow old poop.
 
*Champion designer of Corvettes, for all the young punk kids in the crowd.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:05:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
> I just don't understand why, when we are driving the cars the way they
> were meant to be driven, that Mitsubishi has abandoned us. Why are
> those original engineers so quiet? They should be like Zora Arkus Duntov*, take part in our activities, and allow us to pay homage to their brilliance. Hasn't Mitsu  learned ANYTHING from watching the great car companies like Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, and other marques? They should be supporting us, not ignoring us.
- ---
Marketing hype.  It worked in the early 90s for sports cars.  If it was race inspired and bred..funny how Mitsu never campaigned it.
 
> Man, if we only had some help from the factory, too, we'd blow them
> all away.
- ---
I dunno..whats a 99VR4 in today's $ worth compared to a Z06 at $51k.
 
- ---
Now offering replacement Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes from? orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:14:57 -0500
From: "Geisel, Brian" <brian.geisel@hp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
Hey folks,
 Anyone know how Blitz's dual solenoid design works, and what makes it different from the single solenoid setup?  Matt Monett mentions that the single solenoid setup doesn't work on our cars.  Any one know why this is?  I can't find online documentation anywhere, what does the configuration of the two solenoids look like... are they serial, parallel, etc?
 
TIA,
geis
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:18:25 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph" <starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
The simple response?  Mitsu prefers to accommodate the ricer market by building cheap, base-line dogs that with a little money can be converted into Fast and Furious rice-mobiles.  That way, they don't need to worry about building and supporting a strong car.  They need only worry about one that looks nice and has the support of the ricer market.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:22:36 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need Turbo lessons
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Furman, Russell" <RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
> However there is a downside to turbine wheel clipping it reduces the
> overall
efficiency of the turbo, in addition clipping can cause premature wear/failure due to the fact on the high-end the turbo is being over spun. By how much I am not sure, but every builder I have spoken with doesn't recommend clipping but will do it if specifically asked to do so.
> Just my .02
> Russ F
> CT
> 93 VR-4 DR650's + supporting mods
- ------------------------------------->
 
Which is exactly the reason that I went with custom turbos instead of the 'normal' clip of 15 degrees...  I put in 13c's, which are the biggest wheel you can put in the TD04 housing, (I think) and are somewhere between the GTPro 347's and 357's in output (something ~400cfm, IIRC...), according to Jamie at Performance Techniques (www.turbocharged.com).  I sent him my stock turbos and we talked about what I was looking for, which is fast spool-up for road racing.  He recommended that I go slightly bigger than 13g's, to 13C's and to get a clip of only 5 degrees.  The guy was knowledgeable and responsive, so I took his advice, since it fit in with many of our discussions here on the list.  I'm still running stock boost and pretty rich, since I haven't datalogged my car sufficiently yet, but I'm very happy with the power increase (which is substantial!), and the responsiveness - which feels just like stock or maybe even better(?).  After I get it logged, the dyno will tell the tale...  If you talk to Jamie, remind him after you get a price that he is one of the Team3S "Good Guys" Vendors (see his listing and email on the "GoodGuys" page).  He gives Team3S members a nice discount. www.Team3S.com/FAQgoodguys.htm
 
Best,
 
- --Forrest
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
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Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:30:14 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
Yes I know it very well as I disassembled them after everything was full of oil.
 
The DSBC is a parallel dual solenoid setup. The idea is simple : a small solenoids = fast reaction but not enough volume to be transferred. Two small solenoids in parallel : fast reaction and double the volume.
 
Any solenoid or stepping motor solution works in our car. At the end the control mechanism and the closed loop to control a steady boost is what counts. Therefore the head unit and the solenoids/motor must work together very well. It is know that some fuzzy logic do not work well with bi-turbo engines but this mostly belongs to sequential setups like in the Supra TT.
 
Roger G.
93' & 96'3000GT TT ... both "Blitzed" (DSBC, DBC-DC) www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:31:43 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
AFAIK, the solenoids are parallel. They are different size. The small one
is to control fine oscillations and the large one (or both of them) is to
control large oscillations. Some BC work well with some cars but not with
others. Design limitations. Blitz seems to have the best idea among all the
gadget manufacturers about controlling boost. Good boost controller.
Probably close to the manual boost controller as far as the
price/performance ratio.
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:38:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Just because the SCCA says you cant do it -there- doesn't mean others (including the SCCA) don't allow it anywhere else.
 
- ---
Now offering replacement Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes from? orders@speedtoys.com  Maybe I can help..asking is free.  :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:38:37 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Almost no place to play with AWD --- Audi had a hell of a time also, as soon
as they won they banned AWD.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:40:35 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
I ran the Blitz SSBC for a year without problems --- I've even considered replacing my AVC-R with my old Blitz.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:49:00 +0200
From: "Roger Gerl" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
Philip, both solenoids are the same and are opening and are activated the same time (only two wires to activate them, no logic in the solenoids). No difference, no specific control, everything is done in the control box.
 
Roger G.
93' & 96'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:49:38 -0700
From: "fastmax" <fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
Aftermarket and manufacturing support are developed as a result of lots of folks campaigning the car --- they don't give a damn about 6 guys in California going to open track events. Aftermarket would care about 600 guys but without publicity the manufacturer probably won't cross the street to help.
 
You'll notice I said almost no place to play --- most of the big time formats excluded AWD.
 
        Jim Berry
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:52:27 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz Dual Solenoid setup
 
Weird. I do not have one, sorry. I guess I read too much into the marketing
literature. :-)
 
Philip
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:48:16 -0700
From: "Tyson Varosyan" <tigran@tigran.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need Turbo lessons - Clipping
 
See, I was always thought that it was the intake hosing wheel that got clipped not the exhaust. I guess the way you explain it, it makes sense. Is there 2 ways they do clipping or what?
 
Tyson
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:36:43 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
I don't abuse my tranny or clutch on road courses. No launches, no speed shifts, and -- if nothing serious is going on around me -- I usually up shift at 6000 instead of taking it up to the redline.
> Us road course people NEVER abuse our cars like you drag racers. We
> are gentle on the brakes, suspension, engine, and so on.  In fact, I like to think I am driving the car the way the engineers at Mitsubishi intended when they designed these magnificent cars. Why else would they give us aerodynamic aids, electronic suspensions, four wheel steering, and so on?
- ----------------snip------------------->
 
I agree completely.  Three of us ran the hell out of the VR-4 this past Sunday on the Sears Point (Infineon) track in the NASCAR Winston Cup configuration, which includes "The Chute" (in up to 90-degree temps).  The "Blue Beast" never even broke a sweat.  All we were doing was running the car as it was designed - which IS "designed for racing".  That's what the "O" in "GTO" stands for - "Omologato" = "Homologated for Racing", which means that the car was submitted to the FIA for approval, that it conforms to established track standards for some 100+ components.  On Sunday, all of us passed the usual number of Vipers, Vettes and Porsches... pretty much all of the "street" cars and even a few of the race-prepped cars, as we usually do.  The car ran all day, as contrasted to certain Z-06 Vettes :-) which had to be retired early... (eh, Geoff?).  LOL!
 
Our VR-4 got the equivalent of FOUR track days in ONE day--  ET ran 4 sessions in Open Track, 2 sessions in Group 3, and 2 sessions in Group 2b (with the Instructor "X" on the car, we can run in any group);  I ran 4 sessions in Group 4 and 1 session in Open Track; and our friend from NYC, Terry, ran 4 sessions in Group 2A.  That's 17 runs on a warm day with nary a burp.  None of us speed-shifted, or revved the hell out of the car, which you *must* do when you're drag-racing.  My SAFC2 has a peak-hold feature, and the top RPM we hit all day was 6850 (which was when I did one 3rd gear pull to 125-130 on the straight, I'm sure).  I don't think the car was over 6500 the rest of the day - probably less.  Even the head of NASA Timing and Scoring came down and asked us what the deal was - "This car is out in *every* group on *every* run - what gives???"  We ran the car all day and it was *never* 'abused'!
(PS: ET also ran over 4 sessions in her new Spec Miata - I don't think she missed a single run group driving in *one* of our cars!)
 
Open tracking is all about smoothness and control through the turns at high speed.  The only abuse is to the tires and brakes, since our beefy suspensions are made to take a drift at 120mph, and our engines are made to run safely right up to redline.  And we open-trackers make the suspension and engine even stronger with aftermarket components.  For the record..., relevant mods/settings are below my sig...
- --Forrest
'91 VR-4 running 91 octane pump gas; Porterfield rotors, stock brakes, R4 pads, JIC FLT-A2 "Magic" suspension full soft, no preload; 13C turbos (clipped
5) at stock boost (peak-hold SAFC2 said .5 bar max, 6850 max rpm all day), RC550cc injectors, Supra 255lph pump running full voltage, TurboSX dual BC (on low), Greddy-S BOV; SAFC set at Low:35%, High:70% (low) settings on rich:
800rpm> -35, 1600rpm> -30, 2200rpm> -30, 2800rpm> -30, 3400rpm> -30,
4000rpm> -30, 4600rpm> -30, 5200rpm> -30, 5800rpm> -30, 6400rpm> -30,
7000rpm> -30, 7600rpm> -30; high settings at -30 across the same 12 rpm
points.
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:52:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
> I agree completely.  Three of us ran the hell out of the VR-4 this
> past Sunday on the Sears Point (Infineon) track in the NASCAR Winston
> Cup configuration, which includes "The Chute" (in up to 90-degree
> temps).  The "Blue Beast" never even broke a sweat.  All we were doing
> was running the car as it was designed - which IS "designed for
> racing".  That's what the "O" in "GTO" stands for - "Omologato" =
> "Homologated for Racing", which means that the car was submitted to
> the FIA for approval, that it conforms to established track
- ---
..and did you know that you can make your penis 200% larger with a pill?
 
bad joke..same concept.  Just because they -may- have submitted..marketting.
 
> standards for some 100+ components.  On Sunday, all of us passed the
> usual number of Vipers, Vettes and Porsches... pretty much all of the
> "street" cars and even a few of the race-prepped cars, as we usually
> do.  The car ran all day, as contrasted to certain Z-06 Vettes :-)
> which had to be retired early... (eh, Geoff?).  LOL!
- ---
Lesse..so far I've wasted $50 in rotors, and you ate up the stealth motor and two turbos?  I'm still winning.  :)
 
I know you know this..but since the cars most of us pass are driven by people that may be less experienced..or more in tune to needing to drive it home than we are..not a fair comparison.  That's what starts the "kill" threads on message boards.  I'm sure some Pro7 guy is out there foaming over how he passed me in the Z.  So what..I haven't driven the car twice ever..on the same tires.  I fear things, fear is good. 
 
> Open tracking is all about smoothness and control through the turns at
> high speed.  The only abuse is to the tires and brakes, since our
> beefy suspensions are made to take a drift at 120mph, and our engines
> are made to run safely
- ---
How are things made to take a drift?
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:51:44 -0500
From: "merritt@cedar-rapids.net" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
At 04:36 PM 5/27/03 -0700, Bob Forrest wrote:
>> I don't abuse my tranny or clutch on road courses. No launches, no
>> speed
>shifts,
 
>I agree completely.
 
What? You agree with ME!!??
Holy mackerel. Somebody take note of this historical occasion.
Next thing you know, Flash will agree with me. Right after California falls into the sea.
 
Rich
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:06:50 -0700
From: John Sheehan <johns@kyso.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Big Brother is listening
 
In the April issue of SCCA's Fasttrack News under Touring T2 was the
following:
 
"Item 1. Based on the positive feedback we have been receiving on the
concept of classifying AWD and forced induction cars in the Touring
category we are recommending that Subaru WRX and Audi TT Coupe be
classified in T2 effective 1/1/04. The restrictors that these cars will
be required to run are still being developed and will be announced when
finalized. We will continue to review other cars as their specifications
are received for future classification consideration."
 
Positive feed back ?, or just listening for revenue?
 
John
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
 
------------------------------
 
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2 #165
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