Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, May 20
2003 Volume 02 : Number 159
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:28:23 -0400
From: "Furman, Russell" <
RFurman2@MassMutual.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: My Xenon (HID) experience !
Ok Folks well here I what my buddy (he used to work for Phillips just said)
"My former employer was developing the kit, but they were running into problems
with making a multiple car application. The issue was the location of the
switches (can only be one switch for both ballasts) and proper grounding out
locations...."
Unbeknownst to me he hasn't worked for Phillips in over 7 months so he is a
little out of the loop...
Sorry folks I jumped the gun a bit on this :/
Russ F
CT
DR-650's and supporting mods
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:57:59 -0400
From: Thor Holth <
thorholth@snet.net>
Subject: Team3S:
replacement seat covers
Last night, I was watching a program on TNN regarding seat cover
replacement, and the host mentioned "KATZKINS". Well, I called the company
today to see if I could get replacement covers for the seats in my 1991 stealth
R/T AWD, because mine have a few small defects (mostly on driver's side), and
they told me that they had them from '92 -'98, but, due to a different seat
design in 1991, they did not have compatible covers. This leads me to two
questions:
first, what is the difference between the '92 and '91 seat designs
and;
second, does anyone know of an available replacement cover for the 1991
stealth seats? I really only need the driver's seat cover (and just the
lower half at that). The color is black or charcoal.
- --
Thor Holth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:58:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "dunkin" <
dunkin@netcarrier.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Data Logger vs. Develop Own Software?
Ah nice trick I might just go with that for now.
Error codes are the biggest help coming out of the computer.
I'm not
going to be racing any time soon. The other stuff is just fancy features
nice to have though :) Question is what if their are multiple error
codes. Does it blink them in some kind of pattern? Say code 91 and
46 are in the list I'm assuming it blinks 91 pauses and then 46 pauses and back
to 91 over and over again? Correct assumption? Will it blink all
error codes? From SRS problems, to air intake, O2 sensors, etc... Was
wondering if you have to program other pins to get certain error codes to show
up.
Thanks,
Darius
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:07:51 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Data Logger vs. Develop Own Software?
You need to program other pins, as not everything runs off pins 1 and
12. You cannot get SRS codes at all. You can get all other codes
though, like ECS, ETACS, Cruise control, MPI, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:58:43 -0400
From:
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.comSubject:
Team3S: re: Erratic Idle Problem...Problem Solved
>> .....<snip>.......The only
>> thing I can figure is
that the belt slipped on the
>> crank while I was manually turning the
crank
>> during the tranny installation (just
>> like I've
done many times before!).
>Which direction did you turn the crank? If you turn
it
>counterclockwise as viewed from the front of the motor then it'll
screw
>up the tensioner and compress it and then it'll get slack in the
side
>of the belt opposite the tensioner, causing the sort of problem you
>describe.
I probably did turn it counter clockwise a bit (as viewed from the front)
when I was trying to tighten up the flywheel bolts. I had a similar problem with
one of the camshaft sprockets a few months ago. So I'm thinking I'll go ahead
and install a new belt and tensioner as soon as I can.....just to be safe. That
just doesn't seem normal for the belt to be able to jump time just by rotating
the crankshaft backwards. Is it? The belt and tensioner have 40K miles on
them.
Jeff W.
------------------------------
What are you talking about? Registration is free at 3si.org for the
forums.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:20:45 -0400
From: "Williams, Tommy F" <
WilliamsTF@bernstein.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: replacement seat covers
Thor - I had the Katzkins leather put on my 1991 Dodge Stealth and they are
perfect........... Both the front bucket seats and the rear since it came as one
kit. I also dealt with the issue of the year and quite frankly I this they
start with the wrong year. The buttons to move the seat changed in the
second generation but they are not involved in the leather treatment.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:25:55 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
3si.org
To my knowledge there is no fee to sign up --- I've used it for years and
while I send them a few bucks now and then there is no monthly fee that I know
of.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
If you become a paying member, you get discounts at specific vendors.
Like me.
I honor the -20% on Porterfield Pads group-rate that 3si setup, but I've
been told by the WWW master to verify membership #s because not all forum
members, are 3si members.
- ---
Now offering replacement
Toyota/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/SAAB/Volvo parts Where do you buy YOUR brakes
from?
orders@speedtoys.com Maybe
I can help..asking is free. :) "If its in stock, we have it!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 14:30:00 -0700
From: "fastmax" <
fastmax@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Illegal to coast in neutral??
If you shift the tranny into neutral it would appear so !! However you're
still in 'gear' even if freewheeling down the
hill.
Jim Berry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:25:50 -0700
From: "Riyan Mynuddin" <
riyan@hotpop.com>
Subject: Team3S: WAS
Erratic Idle Problem NOW turning engine backwards
During timing belt installation, the shop manual actually calls for turning
the engine 1/4 turn clockwise and 1/4 turn counterclockwise, THEN waiting 5
minutes to check the rod protrusion. While it's possible that it is ONLY
acceptable to turn the engine counterclockwise during belt installation, that
doesn't really make sense to me. After all, if it's a bad thing to
compress the tensioner after the t-belt installation, then why would it not be
bad _during_ the installation?
Furthermore, if you have a manual transmission in your car then it would be
very easy to screw your tension spec using this logic.
Here's how:
If you park your car uphill in 1st gear (instead of reverse) before setting
your e-brake or if your e-brake is poorly adjusted then your engine will turn
backwards slightly at least until the next compression stroke is reached.
That small movement itself will compress the tensioner and mess up the rod
protrusion (I've tried it). Where does that leave us? If you park
your car as mentioned above one day, do you really need to rip apart the engine
and remove those annoying covers just to re-adjust your timing? Will
you?
However, for the paranoids out there (this includes me), begin parking in
reverse if your car will roll back; 1st if it will roll forward. And if
you must turn the engine the wrong way then here is an idea. Someone on
Team3S suggested turning the engine with the front bank exhaust camshaft
(camshaft closest to the radiator) so that even though the engine is turning
backwards, the slack will go to the tensioner like it is designed. I would
personally recommend turning the engine using 17mm 6-pt box end wrenches
on
*both* the front bank camshafts simultaneously (slightly more torque on
the exhaust cam to avoid slippage) because it may put too much strain on the cam
if you just use one to move the whole motor.
Jeff: in your particular case you might as well replace your t-belt and
tensioner. Especially if you plan on keeping the car for awhile. Why
pull everything apart again in 20K miles? Check your timing idler pulleys too
while you're there. There should be almost no noise and a slight rolling
resistance from the grease that the bearings are packed with.
Riyan
93 stealth rt tt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:20:17 -0400
From: "Joseph Spainhour" <
spainhou@bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo o-ring question.
Hello all,
I built an intake pressure tester and hooked my car up. Knowing that
other people have had problems with the rear turbo I looked there first for
leaks and sure enough, I found one. It is a slight leak, but a leak all the
same.
What causes these rings to go bad? Is it due to age, or might I
have another problem? Since I do not have a pressure gauge on my tester could I
have supplied too much air? I set my regulator to 15psi and left it hooked up
for about 2-3 seconds.
Joseph
93 3KGT VR4
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:23:21 -0500
From: Jon Paine <
ppainej@attglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Illegal to coast in neutral?? (was: All-Wheel Drive &
Neutral)
Sorry - been out of the loop for a couple days. Realizing there've
already been answers, I gotta throw in Illinois' contribution:
"(625 ILCS 5/11-1410) Sec. 11-1410. Coasting prohibited. (a) The
driver
of any motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not
coast with
the gears or transmission of such vehicle in neutral . (b)
The driver of a
truck or bus when traveling upon a down grade shall
not coast with the
clutch disengaged."
Damn! Trucks can't even coast IN gear! Now I don't feel so bad.
Jon Paine
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:40:20 -0400
From: "Omar Malik" <
ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: WAS
Erratic Idle Problem NOW turning engine backwards
Whoa bad idea. The timing belt is meant to be driven by the crank to turn
the cams (which have no where near as much turning torque required to turn like
crank does.) That's it. It was definitely NOT meant to be used to drive the
crank by turning the cams as mentioned. Doing that will put way too much tension
and stress on the belt (turning the crank against a compression
stroke) If it
doesn't break the belt or skip teeth the first time, you're lucky. I've seen
this method tried on a Honduh motor, and sure enough the belt broke.
Omar
92 r/t
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:04:02 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 16" maximum tire size
You're right, I don't have 275/35-18's and 245/40-18's on my car right now,
now do I??? Don't tell me what you don't know about the setup I
run... I can agree with staggered sizes width wise on certain cars, but in
reality on our cars there is no reason to do such a thing. I've never seen
a 3000GT oversteer, nor have I ever gotten mine to... Do you have a rear
sway bar that is a lot bigger than stock?
For the dragstrip, I use 23x8.50-15 Hoosiers. I don't make a street
tire do a track event. For Auto-X, when I finally get to it, I'll have a
set of 265/35-18 Kumho V700's mounted on my spare Konigs.
These are perfect setups for our cars, having purpose built setups.
The sizes you want to use, I wouldn't think would work well, but you're right, I
graduated from 16" tires a long time ago, so I haven't tried it... At any
rate, you are band aiding your tire situation, and getting away with one tire
for all purposes, which is fine, but not the best. There is no one tire fits
all.
As for braking, you need to seriously examine your brake setup if you can
lock the rears before the fronts. Your brake bias is off, or
something. The fronts on these cars will ~always~ lock first in a straight
line. I wholly agree with going with a wider tire, as for handling and
such, why do you think I run much wider tires (275's or 265's). But you should
probably go with wider, all the way around, you'd be amazed at the extra
grip. (thus the reason I have chosen 265/35-18 Kumho's as my auto-x tire
of choice)
Also, if you are having control problems on the track in a FWD car, you
need to look towards suspension mods. All FWD cars are built to
understeer. Are you saying you get oversteer, thus the reason for going
with wider in the rear? (I only run 275's in the rear on the street 'cause
it looks nice, and they are exactly the same diameter as stock).
So... in essence, please don't tell me I "have never tried it" when
you don't have a clue. You'd be amazed at what I get to "try" for
free.
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 02:25:41 -0400
From: "Philip V. Glazatov" <
philip@supercar-engineering.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Spin Control: The Art of Driving with All-Wheel Drive
Philip
------------------------------
I want to check the id # 6 digit alpha numeric Block code
on a JDM
engine I just received.
To confirm it is not a domestic engine.
Does any
one have any suggestions?
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 02:00:49 -0500
From: "cody" <
overclck@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: JDM engine
What difference does it make? They are all built the exact
same. There is higher HP rating or anything like that on the JDM 3/S
motors.
- -Cody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:46:52 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo o-ring question.
Heat. Make sure you coat the O-Ring with high-temperature
grease. I used the silicone stuff that is made for brake calipers.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:16:15 -0400
From:
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.comSubject:
Team3S: re: Erratic Idle Problem.....Problem Solved
>Which direction did you turn the crank? If you turn it counterclockwise
>as viewed from the front of the motor then it'll screw up the tensioner
>and compress it and then it'll get slack in the side of the belt
>opposite the tensioner, causing the sort of problem you describe.
OK. I'm pretty sure I rotated the crankshaft backwards at some point, thus
causing the belt to slip 2 teeth. So now what should I do?
1) Keep turning
the crankshaft counterclockwise to see if it will slip enough teeth to get back
into time?
2) Try to pull the belt off the crankshaft sprocket without
removing it completely, rotate the crankshaft until it's timed, and then push
the belt back on?
3) Remove the belt and tensioner and replace with new
ones?
Jeff W.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:27:52 -0500
From: "Oskar Persson" <
osk@attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Hood
insulator/Fiberglass fabric? & Talon AWD for sale still
Vineet, I can confirm that part number MB632383 is the correct number for
the hood insulator for a second gen. Since yours is a first gen. you may
want to double check the part number in case they are different.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
------------------------------
Speaking of gauges, my oil pressure gauge seems to have failed on my '93
Stealth. I've tested the sending unit and it is putting out a good signal,
I've cleaned the contacts, but the gauge is bottomed out and never moves.
Is this common? Any other way to be 100% sure it is the gauge before I pull
the dash apart? I've got to think that replacing it is a real pain, too.
Any suggestions on replacements such as stock vs. aftermarket?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:38:53 +0200
From: "Roger L. Skoglund" <
norbolig@online.no>
Subject: Team3S:
New short block for twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000 GT
Dear Team3S Members,
I am in need for a new short block for a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000 GT, twin
turbo (mounted to a 5 speed gear box). I changed to a used 1993 engine last
year, that broke after a few thousand Miles, because of low oil pressure. The
engine came from a crashed car, and had got a damage after the crash, that lead
to this "fatal error". So all of you, please be aware when buying used
engines.
Does anyone know what a short block will cost brand new? (list price / best
price ... ?).
Is the engine block in a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000 GT identical with the block
in a 1993 Dodge Stealth RT twin turbo ? Are the Mitsubishi parts generally
cheaper than the Dodge parts ?
I would very much appreciate any comments on this.
Best regards,
Roger
------------------------------
Ken,
I upgraded my gauges to all Apex EL gauges, the 60mm flavor. If you
want pics, I can send you some so you can get an idea. I have 2 EGT, Fuel
Pressure, Oil Pressure, Boost and Water temp. The OP, Boost, and WT are in the
stock location, fit nicely, the FP is where the ashtray used to be (plate can be
ordered from
www.importpoweronline.com for $15
shipped) and 2 on a dual pod on the A pillar.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:40:37 -0000
From: Kopsick Michael J Contr
WRALC/LJET <
Michael.Kopsick@robins.af.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New short block for twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000 GT
Look at the parts section of the Team3S web page...They have dealers with
short or long blocks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:42:18 -0400
From: "Starkey, Jr., Joseph"
<
starkeyje@bipc.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New short block for twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000 GT
A 1993 TT Short Block will cost you around $2500 new.
------------------------------
The only correction I'd like to make is that AWD first appeared in a WRC
rally in 1973, when Jeep Wagoneers demolished the Yurpean factory rally cars at
the Press on Regardless WRC rally in Michigan (the ONLY WRC rally ever held in
the U.S. We wuz there!) Those big torque biasing Quadratrak Jeeps with 400
hp motors were outrageously fast through the deep sand, mud, snow, ice and other
conditions found up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
In typical Yurpean fashion, the FIA immediately banned AWD from rallying,
putting the kibosh on Jeep's plans to enter the 1974 African Safari and
Acropolis rallies, where they would have once again destroyed the Yurpean cars
over those rough roads. God forbid an AMERICAN car should beat
Yurpean cars in Yurp, said the FIA.
It was embarrassing enough in 1964 (63?) when the 289 Ford Falcon Futuras
and Mercury Cyclones (?) stomped the Yurpeans at Rallye Monte Carlo, and the FIA
was not going to let it happen again. So AWD was banned until the Yurpeans had
time to develop their own cars.
Nice folks, the FIA. And so fair to American teams.
Rich/slow old poop
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:17:10 -0700
From: Admin-Team3S <
bforrest@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 3si.org
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
>
If you become a paying member, you get discounts at specific vendors.
>
Like me. I honor the -20% on Porterfield Pads group-rate that 3si
>
setup, but I've been told by the WWW master to verify membership #s
>
because not all forum members, are 3si members.
-
------------------------------------>
You just *might* want to point out that vendors who give 20% to 25%
discounts to Team3S members are listed on our "Good Guys" Dealers and Vendors
page. Geoff is one of the "Good Guys"...
www.Team3S.com/FAQgoodguys.htm
And Team3S membership is FREE.
Bob Forrest
for the Admins
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:38:14 -0400
From: "Rodriguez,
Elpidio x35617d1" <
x35617@exmail.usma.army.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New short block for twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000 GT
I got my new short block from ground zero performance for $2800 I think and
that was the lowest I found 1 year ago. It actually took me longer to install it
than I drove around on it cuz I swiped a tree on the driver door soon after.
Bummer :( Good luck finding one for cheap. And they're usually not in
stock so you'll have to wait a while to get it. I waited 4 weeks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:48:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dustin Lenz <
deviousz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: New short block for twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000 GT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:54:07 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: 3S-Racers: Spin Control: The Art of Driving with All-Wheel
Drive
Thanks to Philip for getting this out to all of us!
I've only read the article once, but I found it to be a little confusing -
it's a hodgepodge of rally, autocross, and road course driving. It's
really important to segregate those activities if you are trying to figure out
how to drive. Notice that the road course guy, Flynn, suggests driving into the
corners gently and getting on the throttle early. Another one, Galati, likes to
trail brake, but emphasizes precision, especially near the limit. The
rally guys talk about upsetting the car before entry into a low-speed corner,
i.e. the "Scandinavian Flick". This is not what you want to do on a road
course.
Chuck Willis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:09:00 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: re:Erratic Idle Problem.....Problem Solved
> OK. I'm pretty sure I rotated the crankshaft
> backwards at some
point, thus causing the
> belt to slip 2 teeth. So now what should I
do?
Re-do your 60k service. You shouldn't need a new belt or
tensioner. Just go
back through all the steps and line it all back up,
starting with the crank and
loop around through the cams
counterclockwise. When you've got the belt back
on completely and have
set the tension, give the crank a few turns clockwise
until all the marks
line back up, let it sit for 15 minutes, verify that you
can put the
shipping pin (or a small hex wrench or whatever) back through the
hole in
the tensioner rod. If you can't, then you need to repeat the
tensioning/crank-turn process until you can easily fit something through the
tensioner hole. Once it holds position for more than 30 minutes after
turning
the crank, you are good to go.
Sounds like you've got a lot of things that are off time though, so
hopefully
your valves aren't damaged - but it doesn't sound particularly
hopeful. Do a
compression test on all cylinders when you are
done.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:31:37 +0000
From:
mjannusch@attbi.comSubject: Re:
Team3S: turning engine backwards
> During timing belt installation, the shop
> manual actually
calls for turning the
> engine 1/4 turn clockwise and 1/4 turn
>
counterclockwise, THEN waiting 5 minutes
> to check the rod
protrusion. While it's
> possible that it is ONLY acceptable to
turn
> the engine counterclockwise during belt
> installation, that
doesn't really make sense
> to me. After all, if it's a bad thing
to
> compress the tensioner after the t-belt
> installation, then
why would it not be bad
> _during_ the installation?
Momentarily putting the belt pressure on the tensioner side isn't a problem
during installation because you then immediately go the other way and move
all
the slack to that side. The book says to do that during install to
try to get
all the slack to the tensioner side. I personally think it
is better to spin
the crank around the right way a few times until all the
marks realign (4
complete turns?).
If you spin it backwards and leave it in that position, that's where the
problem lies, because over time the tensioner will lose protrusion which
will
allow the belt to be slack when it gets turned the right
direction. The
tensioner isn't like a spring where it can change
positions quickly - there's a
lot* of damping force preventing it from
getting pushed back in quickly.
> Jeff: in your particular case you might as
> well replace your
t-belt and tensioner.
> Especially if you plan on keeping the car
>
for awhile. Why pull everything apart again
> in 20K miles?
Yes, if there are already a lot of miles on the belt, then you may as well
replace it. If you are around 100K miles it is probably a good idea to
replace
the tensioner and water pump as well.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:41:29 -0400
From: "Zobel, Kurt D" <
Kurt.Zobel@ca.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: 16" maximum tire size
Sorry Cody,
I addressed all your points below in my earlier reply.
You Have Not
tried my setup, so don't knock it, it works on the NA.
Just to add, it worked with Eibach's and stock rear sway bar. It works with
VR4 struts and 22mm rear sway bar as well.
I tried 255s all around as the comparison against the 245 fr and 255 rr. I
don't do autocross, so that is the area I cannot report on.
It works so much
better on the street and road courses, I cannot ignore the
performance due
to looks or other peoples pre-conceived notions.
Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:40:30 -0500
From: "Lim, Yong H SPC"
<
yong.lim@sill.army.mil>
Subject:
Team3S: what happened to 3sxperformance website
I have been trying to get to their webpage for last couple of days without
any success. Do they have a different address or are they out of business?
I'm trying to buy their poly motor mounts and I can't seem to find these parts
anywhere else. Does anybody know other shops that sell poly motor
mounts? Thanks
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V2
#159
***************************************